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[DYNASTY] 2009 Top 24 Rookies (1 Viewer)

EBF

Footballguy
A few quick thoughts before I post the rankings:

- I think the strength of this class is at WR, but I tried to factor in the natural bias towards RBs. They almost always hold more value after 1-2 seasons than the WRs. So even though this WR class is better than this RB class, the top 10 is still pretty RB-heavy.

- This class is pretty strong through the first round, but the depth is weak. I struggled to find 24 guys that I'd even want on my FF team. I don't think we're going to see solid players available in the third round of rookie drafts like we did last season.

- I don't spend much time scouting QBs, so most of what you'll read about them here was compiled from other scouting reports. My attitude towards QBs is to avoid them until they become obvious value. They're very unpredictable and they don't offer great return on your investment even when they pan out.

- These rankings are meant for PPR leagues.

First Tier

1. LeSean McCoy, RB, Pittsburgh

Positives: Lightning quick with excellent agility. Has the ability to make people miss and pick up extra yardage. Runs low with good balance and falls forward. Good receiver who should catch plenty of passes at the next level. Productive player. The backbone of his team’s offense for the past two seasons. Excelled despite being the sole focus of opposing defenses.

Negatives: Lacks any semblance of power and collapses like a broken chair when he gets hit. Looks like he has some room to add weight, but is acutely undersized. Relies too much on juke moves that might not be as effective against pro defense (dances too much). Has some maturity/character question marks.

Overall: McCoy is never going to be a 350+ carry warhorse, but he offers a lot of potential as a Brian Westbrook type. He has outstanding quickness and open field moves. If he goes to a team willing to make him the starter, he has tremendous potential in PPR leagues.

NFL Comparison: Reggie Bush (-speed, +jukes)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMWaQATEPTA...re=channel_page

2. Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech

Positives: Ultra productive player with a great combination of physical ability and football skills. Long arms and natural hands. Good upper body strength and leverage to overpower defensive backs. Dangerous runner after the catch, using his quickness to pick up extra yardage (he’s almost like a RB when he gets the ball). Good initial burst. Athletic.

Negatives: Lacks the second gear to beat cornerbacks downfield. Though he has good quickness, it would be a stretch to call him explosive and he might have some trouble separating from pro corners. Has some minor durability question marks to answer. His playing style exposes him to more hits than the average WR. Played in a friendly scheme that inflated his stats.

Overall: Crabtree should develop into a reliable starting WR who does the dirty work underneath, moves the chains, and picks up yardage after the catch. People obsess over his lack of speed, but speed isn’t his game. He’s a possession WR who figures to have a high reception total and low yards-per-catch average at the next level. He’s not as good as Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson, but he appears to have plenty of talent to rack up multiple 1000+ yard seasons.

NFL Comparison: Anquan Boldin (-strength, +wingspan)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ySmg1f8ZSM...re=channel_page

3. Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia

Positives: Jack of all trades with no glaring weaknesses in his game. Adequate size with a low center of gravity. Good quickness and power. Smooth runner with quality instincts. Though he lacks great pure speed, he has excellent acceleration and gets upfield quickly. Highly productive in one of the top conferences in college football. Competitive.

Negatives: Marginal speed. Doesn’t have that extra gear to run away from defenses. Combine numbers suggest that he’s a mediocre athlete for a top pro RB prospect. Doesn’t have the special physical ability needed to dominate.

Overall: There are RBs in this draft with more upside than Moreno, but he looks like a pretty safe bet to become a productive pro starter and a quality RB2 for FF teams. He's definitely a notch below the elite RBs of recent draft classes.

NFL Comparison: Marshawn Lynch (-power)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue6lflyI6wk...feature=channel

4. Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa

Positives: Productive back with a great build for the position. Low center of gravity with excellent lower body strength. Has good feet. North-south runner who gets upfield, takes what the defense gives him, and finishes runs. Meat-and-potatoes type who grinds out yards. Rushed for over 100 yards in every game last season and carried the Iowa offense on his back.

Negatives: Not explosive. Lacks speed. Not a big play threat. Limited ability as a receiver. Had academic issues in college, raising concerns about his character. One year wonder who will need to show that he can stay focused.

Overall: Shonn Greene is an excellent RB prospect whose no-nonsense style should translate well to the pro game. He’ll probably never be the type of dominant superstar who carries your FF team to a title, but he’s a low risk workhorse back who can step in and handle 300+ carries immediately.

NFL Comparison: Rudi Johnson

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLlfOIgmKqk...re=channel_page

5. Percy Harvin, WR, Florida

Positives: Phenomenal athlete whose talent jumps off the screen. Big play threat. Short stride with good speed and quickness. Fluid. Has the potential to develop into a very good route runner. Despite being used in a gimmicky hybrid role at Florida, I think he shows the inherent receiving skills that you look for from a WR prospect. Catches the ball cleanly and shows good body control.

Negatives: A little bit of an unknown due to his college usage. Sturdy build with excellent strength for his size, but he’s still had some injury problems.

Overall: Harvin is a high quality prospect who looks like a very safe bet to develop into a good NFL player. Some people are worried about the way he was used in college, but he has the full complement of physical gifts and football skills needed to make the jump to the pro game. I think he fits in nicely as a starting WR whose speed and explosion make him a constant threat.

NFL Comparison: Santana Moss

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34--XTjboDI...re=channel_page

6. Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri

Positives: Well-proportioned runner with a smooth stride and dangerous long speed. Very athletic. Shows sound natural receiving skills, catching the ball cleanly with his hands. Excellent production in the passing game. It’s rare that you see a team build its attack around a WR, but Missouri’s offense seemed to flow through Maclin.

Negatives: A little bit of a long strider. Can he separate out of breaks? Missouri system made him hard to evaluate because you didn’t see him running many of the streaks, posts, and deep routes that he’ll be asked to run in the NFL. Can he win a jump ball? Can he track the deep pass?

Overall: Maclin is an explosive vertical receiver whose long speed and athletic ability will make him an enticing option in the top half of the NFL draft. He has a little bit of the long strider disease that plagues Ted Ginn and Troy Williamson (built up speed with trouble separating out of breaks), but he has a better build and reliable hands. I think he’s clearly a cut above those two guys and I think he fits in nicely as a downfield threat in the mold of Greg Jennings. He’ll need a little seasoning to improve his route running, but I think the raw ability is there.

NFL Comparison: Greg Jennings

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA619-10IIM...re=channel_page

7. Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland

Positives: Burner with rare deep speed. Even at the NFL level, he’ll be faster than most cornerbacks. Tall WR with long arms and good leg strength. Adequate lateral quickness. Shows the ability to high point the ball and catch it cleanly with his hands. Very high upside. Pro Bowl potential.

Negatives: Mediocre production compared to other top wideouts in the draft. Looks like a superstar on paper, but doesn’t always show up on gameday. A bit of a longstrider who gathers in and out of breaks. Enigmatic.

Overall: Heyward-Bey is an appealing prospect because of his rare physical skills. He’s not the most polished receiver in this draft and his college statistics are quite unimpressive, but some of that may have been due to misuse. He shows tremendous promise as a WR and doesn’t deserve the Troy Williamson comparisons. Nevertheless, you don’t quite know what you’re getting with him. He might be great or he might be a mediocre pro. Boom or bust pick.

NFL Comparison: Donte Stallworth (+size)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjaBWuo4zA

8. Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State

Positives: At his best, Wells is a dominant runner who makes big plays and takes over games. Has good speed. Not really a juker, but has the ability to put his foot in the ground and change directions. Strong upper body to fend off tacklers and deliver punishment.

Negatives: Atypical build with a high center of gravity and long legs. Capable of running hard when he’s able to square up and use his upper body strength, but because of the way he’s built, he doesn’t really have great leg drive and he usually goes down pretty easily when defenders get a good shot on his lower body. Missed some time with minor injuries. Toughness and desire are major question marks.

Overall: Wells is a boom-or-bust pick with a big upside and a big downside. If he pans out people will say you should’ve seen it coming because he’s a good athlete and he was so dominant in college. If he busts, people will say you should’ve seen it coming because he’s a big back with poor lower body strength and no heart. The reality is that it’s impossible to know which version of Chris Wells we’ll see in the NFL. He’s a gamble.

NFL Comparison: Deuce McAllister (-toughness, -lower body strength)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYeleDrCaQ...re=channel_page

Second Tier

9. Donald Brown, RB, UConn

Positives: Highly productive back with rare combine numbers that place him alongside the league’s elite runners. Low center of gravity with most of the weight concentrated in his thighs. Springy. Loose hips with excellent quickness and cutting skills. Seamlessly changes directions and shows good vision to adjust. Has a nice initial burst. Solid potential as a receiver.

Negatives: Not a powerful runner who punishes defenders. Has decent leg drive because his weight is distributed well, but he’s light for a bell cow back and he lacks the pure bulk to push the pile. Sharp initial burst, but mediocre long speed. Doesn’t really pop off the screen as a “wow” player despite his measurables and his achievements.

Overall: I initially thought Brown was an overachiever with marginal computer numbers, but his excellent performance at the combine shattered that notion. Athletically, Brown is right up there with some of the best backs in the game. He’s also an accomplished player who translates his raw talent into success on the football field. At the same time, he’s undersized for a three down back and he lacks the juice of an elite small back like Chris Johnson. I think he offers potential in a creative system that uses him in a Tiki Barber like role, but he’s not a classic franchise back who will dominate regardless of where he lands. May take time to find his niche and may be relegated to a committee or backup role.

NFL Comparison: Felix Jones

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TBnZ7_60GY

10. Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina

Positives: Good combination of size and athletic ability. Fluid player who picks up yards after the catch. Flashes good hands and coordination. Improved every year in college and simply dominated the competition at times in his final season.

Negatives: A half a step slow off the line and doesn’t have blazing deep speed. Athletic, but plays a little bit hesitant at times and will dance too much.

Overall: Nicks has quietly climbed up the charts over the past six months. He’s not an overwhelming physical specimen, but he’s a quality athlete who looks like he belongs in the NFL. I like his chances of developing into a solid, but unspectacular starter.

NFL Comparison: Jerricho Cotchery

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWakmo3_m2s...re=channel_page

11. Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers

Positives: Big-bodied WR with good strength and surprising mobility. Runs better than you might expect and shows some quickness. Classic power WR who manhandles DBs and gains yards after the catch with tough running. Productive college player with two straight 1200+ yard seasons under his belt.

Negatives: Inconsistent hands. Will body catch. Lacks sustained speed and won’t pull away from anyone. Not a deep threat or a receiver who can challenge vertically. A little bit lighter than you hope for given his height, but he looks like he has room to add weight.

Overall: Britt is a well-built possession WR who should develop into a quality starter at the pro level. He’ll have to keep working to fine tune his game and improve his consistency, but he has a lot of talent and could eventually develop into a WR2-WR3 for FF teams. He may be better suited to a complementary WR2 role in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Muhsin Muhammad

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a98USWn8dG0

12. Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia

Positives: Sturdy QB with a wealth of experience and a very live arm. Threw almost 1000 passes over the past three seasons. Improved every year. Good field vision and shows the ability to go through his progressions and find the open receiver. Can make all the throws.

Negatives: Generally makes good decisions, but is prone to turnovers (double digit INTs every season). Inconsistent accuracy. Some scouting reports cite sloppy footwork.

Overall: Stafford appears to be a quality first round QB prospect with the potential to develop into a franchise passer. He didn’t really have the superstar career that you might have expected from a top 10 QB in a major program stocked with talent, but the scouts like his potential and he has a chance to be successful. Worth a look once the elite WRs and RBs are gone.

NFL Comparison: Jay Cutler

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l0OIqYkwz0

13. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC

Positives: Good mobility and arm strength. Sees the field well and delivers the ball on time. When he gets in the zone, he’s capable of taking over games. By all accounts he’s a hard worker who takes his job seriously.

Negatives: Streaky passer who runs hot and cold. Very inexperienced. Made a questionable decision to enter the NFL draft after only one season of significant work in college. Will almost certainly have to sit on the sidelines for a season or two before he’s ready to lead a pro offense. Durability is a question mark. Played with a great supporting cast that made his job easier.

Overall: You can’t blame Sanchez for cashing in on his opportunity given the fact that he’ll almost certainly be one of the top 2 QBs drafted. At the same time, QBs are always difficult to project to the next level and you can’t be too excited about someone who’s so inexperienced. Assuming he pans out, it will probably be years before Sanchez is ready to help your FF team. There’s value here because you know he’ll eventually get a shot to start, but I wouldn’t take him unless all of the good WRs and RBs were gone.

NFL Comparison: David Garrard

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNwVfPNhYtI...feature=related

Third Tier

14. Jarett Dillard, WR, Rice

Positives: Natural football player with a lot of innate ability. Great body control and hands. Playmaker. Elite leaping ability and long arms makes him a jump ball threat despite his height. Lacks ideal speed, but runs crisp routes and gets separation. Massively productive. NCAA record holder in TD catches. 1,000+ yards three seasons in a row.

Negatives: Disappointing pure speed for a smaller receiver. Not explosive off the line and doesn’t have that extra juice to blow by people or make big plays after the catch. Lacks strength and has a thin, lanky frame.

Overall: You hate to underestimate Dillard because he’s a phenomenal football player who dominated the competition in college. At the same time, it’s tough to say exactly where he fits in at the NFL level. He’s not really a slot WR and he doesn’t have the pure speed you hope for from a 190 pound vertical WR. I don’t think he’s a lock for stardom, but he has a lot of things going in his favor and he’s a viable pick once the elite WR prospects are off the board.

NFL Comparison: Isaac Bruce (-burst)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtojPueX0_w

15. Kory Sheets, RB, Purdue

Positives: Good athlete with a nice burst. Very fluid. Loose hips and excellent cutting skills (open field moves reminiscent of Marshawn Lynch). Productive throughout his entire college career. Contributes in the passing game and offers nice potential as a receiver. Really helped himself at the combine, where he put up excellent marks in several drills.

Negatives: Well-proportioned, but lacks conventional size. A little bit of a tweener. Doesn’t have the sheer explosiveness of a speed back, but doesn’t have the bulk of a workhorse. It’s hard to envision exactly how an NFL team will use him.

Overall: Sheets is a good player. I don’t know if he has the overall package needed to be a starter at the next level, but he’s a viable pick once the top backs are off the board. If he lands on a team with an immediate opportunity available, put him on your sleeper list.

NFL Comparison: Marshawn Lynch (-size, -power)

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gMwSSLrzSg

16. Brandon Tate, WR, North Carolina

Positives: Athletic WR who was just coming into his own when he suffered a season-ending injury. Quick and fluid with great potential as a route runner. Excellent return man.

Negatives: Suffered a torn ACL and MCL last season, meaning he might not be back to full speed until 2010. Doesn’t have great size or speed. More of a complementary type of WR than a guy who’s going to seize a WR1 spot and become the backbone of a passing game.

Overall: It’s hard to get a read on Tate because he got hurt right as he was breaking out. I liked what I saw in limited action. He’s a fluid player who resembles a number of successful NFL WRs in terms of body type and playing style. I wouldn’t burn a high pick on him, but he makes a nice sleeper choice once the cupboard starts getting bare in your drafts.

NFL Comparison: Chad Johnson (-speed, -burst)

Evidence:

21. Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Georgia

Positives: Strong WR who plays faster than his timed speed. Athletic with good run-after-the-catch skills. Lots of upside. Contributed throughout his college career and had a nice senior season.

Negatives: Inconsistent hands. Good downfield speed, but needs work as a route runner. Enigmatic player who will dominate one week and disappear the next.

Overall: Massaquoi is a project who needs to refine his game and improve his focus, but he has the raw physical ability to develop into a starter in the NFL. He gets the nod here over some more accomplished WRs because of his upside. However, there’s a very realistic possibility that he’ll never put it all together.

NFL Comparison: Marty Booker

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYACbx6SEZI

22. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Positives: Tall with excellent hands. Made a number of big catches for the Buckeyes over the past two seasons. Polished player who does the little things well and gets the most out of his physical ability. Comes from an NFL family. Really helped himself at the combine, performing better than expected in drills.

Negatives: Neither quick nor fast. Not a threat after the catch. Really just a catch-and-fall WR with very limited upside.

Overall: What you see is what you get with Robiskie. He’s a solid player and he has decent computer numbers on paper, but he’s a very middling talent who doesn’t have the obvious physical gifts needed to rise above mediocrity. I see him as a backup type or a WR2 at best in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Michael Jenkins

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urUgs3FeiGc

23. Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State

Positives: A physical specimen with the prototypical tools that pro scouts covet. Big frame and a strong arm. Threw a lot of passes in college and improved every season.

Negatives: Raw. Will stare down his primary receiver. Doesn’t consistently show good timing and will release the ball late. He can get away with that in college, but it might cause problems at the next level. Overall accuracy is mediocre.

Overall: Freeman is a project who will be drafted high on the basis of his potential. He’s pretty rough around the edges, but some team will fall in love with his upside and tell themselves they can mold him into a complete passer. He has the ability to develop into a good FF QB in the right situation, but there’s nothing here that screams superstar. I thin you can get players like this cheaper. What’s nice about Freeman is that you know he’ll be given a shot to start eventually, so you can always stash him and trade him later if you don’t like what you see.

NFL Comparison: Jason Campbell

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoDjfUS7YH0

24. Deon Butler, WR, Penn State

Positives: Productive player who put up good reception totals throughout his career. Effective safety valve with excellent inherent WR skills. Good hands and makes the circus catch. Quick player who knows how to run routes and seems to have a great sense for the open spots on the field. Stood out at the Shrine Game and surprised with a good 40 time at the combine.

Negatives: Slight build with limited strength. Despite his 40 time, he’s more of an underneath WR than a deep threat. Good route runner, but not particularly dangerous after the catch.

Overall: A former walk-on, Butler has made a habit of defying expectations. He’s a solid football player who will probably carve out a niche in the NFL, but his upside is limited and he’ll only have significant FF value if he lands in a perfect situation.

NFL Comparison: Steve Breaston

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urUgs3FeiGc

 
A couple added thoughts:

- If I had to guess which players on this list are most likely to make me look silly a year from now, I'd say Wells and Brown. If those guys land in open situations where they have the potential to win the starting job, they could produce solid FF numbers right away. However, I'm just not 100% sold on either of them. Brown has a little bit of a JJ Arrington look about him and Wells is such a gamble that I'd rather let someone else roll the dice on him.

- There's not a ton of separation between the guys in my first tier. If you have a top 8-9 pic, you're going to get a solid prospect. It's just a question of what type of player you're looking for. They each offer different strengths and weaknesses. Some are low ceiling/high floor types. Others are the opposite. Depending on what you're looking for, you can justify taking almost any one of the top 8 guys with the 1.01 rookie pick.

 
nice list. Personally i'd move Hey-Bey down to tier 2 and move Nicks or Brown up, but thats more personal preference.

The major thing i disagree on is Pettigrew. You really think he's the #1 TE for FF purposes? Is his high floor the reason you rank him that high? Coffman's floor is similar to that of Pettigrew, but his upside is considerably greater imo. I also think James Casey is a pretty safe bet to be a better FF performer than Pettigrew. I'd argue Travis Beckum is also a better player to have, but i understand he has significant risk to him.

 
nice list. Personally i'd move Hey-Bey down to tier 2 and move Nicks or Brown up, but thats more personal preference. The major thing i disagree on is Pettigrew. You really think he's the #1 TE for FF purposes? Is his high floor the reason you rank him that high? Coffman's floor is similar to that of Pettigrew, but his upside is considerably greater imo. I also think James Casey is a pretty safe bet to be a better FF performer than Pettigrew. I'd argue Travis Beckum is also a better player to have, but i understand he has significant risk to him.
I've had a tendency to overrate TEs who weren't exceptional talents. I had Heath Miller and Marcedes Lewis in about the same range and neither guy has really been worth it. So maybe I'm too high on Pettigrew. TEs only have major value if they're studs. Otherwise their trade value is negligible.James Casey is an interesting prospect and certainly worth watching, but he's basically a poor man's Dallas Clark. He's not that big and not that fast. It's hard for me to envision him putting up the kind of numbers needed for true FF relevance. Then again, you never know. I've never really liked Zach Miller, but he's been able to carve out some FF value simply by being the only reliable receiving option on a bad team. If Casey lands in a similar situation then he could have some value. One thing to remember about him is that he's old. I think he's already 25. Coffman has a chance. He was very productive at Mizzou and he runs pretty well for a tall guy. Is he better than Pettigrew? Hard to say. He played in a friendlier system. Pettigrew reminds me more of guys like Witten and Gonzalez than Coffman does. Coffman is basically just an oversized WR. In the right system, I can see him achieving FF relevance. He may be relegated to a situational pass catcher role though since he doesn't look like he's going to be a great blocker.I thought Beckum was overrated before his injury, but of the three guys you mentioned, he has the flashiest athletic ability and is probably the most interesting FF prospect. For now he doesn't make the cut. Depending on where he lands on draft day, that could certainly change. He has the upside to be a 2nd round rookie pick.
 
8. Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
;) It's like a competition now to see who can put him lower in their rankings.
I cited him as someone who's likely to make his ranking look silly. It's not difficult to envision a scenario in which he lands a starting job and comes out of the gate like gangbusters. Depending where he goes on draft day, he could be in the mix for the 1.01 pick in most leagues. In the long run I see a lot of risk there though. I like the other three RBs a little more and those four WRs will probably all be drafted ahead of Wells.
 
nice list. Personally i'd move Hey-Bey down to tier 2 and move Nicks or Brown up, but thats more personal preference. The major thing i disagree on is Pettigrew. You really think he's the #1 TE for FF purposes? Is his high floor the reason you rank him that high? Coffman's floor is similar to that of Pettigrew, but his upside is considerably greater imo. I also think James Casey is a pretty safe bet to be a better FF performer than Pettigrew. I'd argue Travis Beckum is also a better player to have, but i understand he has significant risk to him.
I've had a tendency to overrate TEs who weren't exceptional talents. I had Heath Miller and Marcedes Lewis in about the same range and neither guy has really been worth it. So maybe I'm too high on Pettigrew. TEs only have major value if they're studs. Otherwise their trade value is negligible.James Casey is an interesting prospect and certainly worth watching, but he's basically a poor man's Dallas Clark. He's not that big and not that fast. It's hard for me to envision him putting up the kind of numbers needed for true FF relevance. Then again, you never know. I've never really liked Zach Miller, but he's been able to carve out some FF value simply by being the only reliable receiving option on a bad team. If Casey lands in a similar situation then he could have some value. One thing to remember about him is that he's old. I think he's already 25. Coffman has a chance. He was very productive at Mizzou and he runs pretty well for a tall guy. Is he better than Pettigrew? Hard to say. He played in a friendlier system. Pettigrew reminds me more of guys like Witten and Gonzalez than Coffman does. Coffman is basically just an oversized WR. In the right system, I can see him achieving FF relevance. He may be relegated to a situational pass catcher role though since he doesn't look like he's going to be a great blocker.I thought Beckum was overrated before his injury, but of the three guys you mentioned, he has the flashiest athletic ability and is probably the most interesting FF prospect. For now he doesn't make the cut. Depending on where he lands on draft day, that could certainly change. He has the upside to be a 2nd round rookie pick.
In reference to James Casey, i'd rather have a poor man's Dallas Clark than Heath Miller or Mercedes Lewis. James Casey is 24, the same age as Pettigrew; Casey is a total of 5 months older than Pettirgew. Though age really isn't that big of a deal for TE, imo. In reference to Coffman, i think he can be an adequate blocker with good coaching. He definitely has the size at 6'5 and 3/4. You say TE's only have major value if they're studs, in that case i'm surprised you like Pettigrew so much. I'd be very surprised if he ever becomes a stud. The thing that scares me about TE's who are better blockers than they are receivers is that they are often more valuable to their team when they are blocking as opposed to receiving. I dont think it matters as much where the other 3 guys i mentioned end up, they're gonna have value. Team's aren't gonna draft them to block for them, they're gonna draft them to catch the ball and make plays. Obviously going to certain teams will be better than others, so it really is early to say too much about these guys. The player whose FF value is the most dependent on where he ends up is Pettigrew imo. He likely won't be lining up in the slot very often if ever, which is what most of the elite FF TE's do these days. So to make up for that he's going to need to go to an ideal situation. Though if he goes to Atlanta like many mocks are projecting him too, that would be the perfect place for him imo.
 
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Hard to say how it's gonna work out. I see the range of Pettigrew's value being Daniel Graham to Jason Witten. It really depends on the supporting cast and how he's used. I do think he can be a high reception guy.

I'm never going to rank TEs highly unless they're obvious impact players. They just don't have much upside. Even the best ones are cheap to acquire, so I think it's generally better to trade for one than to play the rookie lotto. I'd rather roll the dice on a WR, RB, or even a QB.

 
Great job, like this list much better than last years. I like the fact you lightened up on the BMI theory a bit. Always a good read, wether i agree or not. :shrug:

 
I do think Wells is too low. Even if he goes to the Vikings in the 3rd round, he will still be drafted higher than 8 in all rookie drafts. Obvioulsy thats not going to happen, but no matter where he ends up, i am sure he will have more value than most/all the players you have above him after the draft and through the 2009 season.

 
I do think Wells is too low. Even if he goes to the Vikings in the 3rd round, he will still be drafted higher than 8 in all rookie drafts. Obvioulsy thats not going to happen, but no matter where he ends up, i am sure he will have more value than most/all the players you have above him after the draft and through the 2009 season.
You can disagree with having Beanie Wells ranked 8th, but your reasoning isn't very good. The fact that Beanie Wells' average draft position in rookie drafts will probably be between 1 and 3 is irrelevan when it comes to a person's subjective ranking of all players.
 
I do think Wells is too low. Even if he goes to the Vikings in the 3rd round, he will still be drafted higher than 8 in all rookie drafts. Obvioulsy thats not going to happen, but no matter where he ends up, i am sure he will have more value than most/all the players you have above him after the draft and through the 2009 season.
You can disagree with having Beanie Wells ranked 8th, but your reasoning isn't very good. The fact that Beanie Wells' average draft position in rookie drafts will probably be between 1 and 3 is irrelevan when it comes to a person's subjective ranking of all players.
I agree, but even if someone doesnt like Wells long term value, you have to draft him higher than 8. Perceived value is more important than actual value, especially with RB's in the first year of dynasty leagues.
 
I do think Wells is too low. Even if he goes to the Vikings in the 3rd round, he will still be drafted higher than 8 in all rookie drafts. Obvioulsy thats not going to happen, but no matter where he ends up, i am sure he will have more value than most/all the players you have above him after the draft and through the 2009 season.
You can disagree with having Beanie Wells ranked 8th, but your reasoning isn't very good. The fact that Beanie Wells' average draft position in rookie drafts will probably be between 1 and 3 is irrelevan when it comes to a person's subjective ranking of all players.
I agree, but even if someone doesnt like Wells long term value, you have to draft him higher than 8. Perceived value is more important than actual value, especially with RB's in the first year of dynasty leagues.
Well obviously you have to take into account perceived value and the like when drafting. But this isn't a mock of a rookie draft or anything like that. It is who EBF thinks are the top 24 rookies for FF. For example, EBF could have Deon Butler ranked #1 overall. That doesn't mean if he has the 1.1 rookie pick he's going to use it on Deon Butler if he knows he can get him later in the draft.
 
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Nice effort.... but I have a question. You mention "computer numbers" several times. I have no idea what that means. Could you explain? TIA.

 
I do think Wells is too low. Even if he goes to the Vikings in the 3rd round, he will still be drafted higher than 8 in all rookie drafts. Obvioulsy thats not going to happen, but no matter where he ends up, i am sure he will have more value than most/all the players you have above him after the draft and through the 2009 season.
You can disagree with having Beanie Wells ranked 8th, but your reasoning isn't very good. The fact that Beanie Wells' average draft position in rookie drafts will probably be between 1 and 3 is irrelevan when it comes to a person's subjective ranking of all players.
I agree, but even if someone doesnt like Wells long term value, you have to draft him higher than 8. Perceived value is more important than actual value, especially with RB's in the first year of dynasty leagues.
Why? And I disagree with the "perceived>actual" portion, unless you're just drafting to trade, but then you're probably better off trading the pick in the first place.
 
EBF - good thought-provoking work as always, although some of your comparisons have me :thumbdown:

Maclin=Jennings - Jennings was a polished, veteran-like route runner when he came out, Maclin is anything but. I would compare Maclin to a bigger Ted Ginn.

Brown-Felix Jones - Brown has ridiculous lower body strength and he's a workhorse, but one without a 2nd gear. Jones has sick quicks and long speed. I see these guys as completely different. Brown is more like Gore or a regular sized Michael Turner - deep speed.

Sanchez=Garrard - Garrard is massive, rugged, and creates after the play breaks down, Sanchez is more of a pocket passer, average size, decent, but not overwhelming arm strength. Sanchez is more like Rodgers or Schaub.

Dillard=Bruce- These guys seem to have totally different body types and games to me - Dillard's strengths are his ups and his quicks, I cant recall Bruce making plays in the air or ankle breaking moves. Dillard is more like Lee Evans without the deep speed.

I hate to nitpick compares, but these seem off to me, the kind of compares that give people who haven't seen the players the wrong impression.

 
nice list. Personally i'd move Hey-Bey down to tier 2 and move Nicks or Brown up, but thats more personal preference. The major thing i disagree on is Pettigrew. You really think he's the #1 TE for FF purposes? Is his high floor the reason you rank him that high? Coffman's floor is similar to that of Pettigrew, but his upside is considerably greater imo. I also think James Casey is a pretty safe bet to be a better FF performer than Pettigrew. I'd argue Travis Beckum is also a better player to have, but i understand he has significant risk to him.
I've had a tendency to overrate TEs who weren't exceptional talents. I had Heath Miller and Marcedes Lewis in about the same range and neither guy has really been worth it. So maybe I'm too high on Pettigrew. TEs only have major value if they're studs. Otherwise their trade value is negligible.James Casey is an interesting prospect and certainly worth watching, but he's basically a poor man's Dallas Clark. He's not that big and not that fast. It's hard for me to envision him putting up the kind of numbers needed for true FF relevance. Then again, you never know. I've never really liked Zach Miller, but he's been able to carve out some FF value simply by being the only reliable receiving option on a bad team. If Casey lands in a similar situation then he could have some value. One thing to remember about him is that he's old. I think he's already 25. Coffman has a chance. He was very productive at Mizzou and he runs pretty well for a tall guy. Is he better than Pettigrew? Hard to say. He played in a friendlier system. Pettigrew reminds me more of guys like Witten and Gonzalez than Coffman does. Coffman is basically just an oversized WR. In the right system, I can see him achieving FF relevance. He may be relegated to a situational pass catcher role though since he doesn't look like he's going to be a great blocker.I thought Beckum was overrated before his injury, but of the three guys you mentioned, he has the flashiest athletic ability and is probably the most interesting FF prospect. For now he doesn't make the cut. Depending on where he lands on draft day, that could certainly change. He has the upside to be a 2nd round rookie pick.
I'm not sure I'd characterize Casey as "not that big" - he's DE sized, and he started out as a DE at Rice. In some ways, he's a poor man's Clark (may not have seam ripping speed), but unlike Clark, he's rugged and durable. Don't forget that Casey ran in 6 TDs and threw 2 as a GL QB. He's one part Tebow. If his team uses him that way at all, he could be HUGE for fantasy. Remember also that Casey has WR hands - over 100 catches this year!Pettigrew reminds me of Daniel Graham more than Witten or Gonzo. He doesnt have Witten's downfield game or Gonzo's power forward game in the air and in tight quarters.Again, I hate to nitpick, but I think you have some false impressions of this unique TE class.
 
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EBF - good thought-provoking work as always, although some of your comparisons have me :football:Maclin=Jennings - Jennings was a polished, veteran-like route runner when he came out, Maclin is anything but. I would compare Maclin to a bigger Ted Ginn.Brown-Felix Jones - Brown has ridiculous lower body strength and he's a workhorse, but one without a 2nd gear. Jones has sick quicks and long speed. I see these guys as completely different. Brown is more like Gore or a regular sized Michael Turner - deep speed.Sanchez=Garrard - Garrard is massive, rugged, and creates after the play breaks down, Sanchez is more of a pocket passer, average size, decent, but not overwhelming arm strength. Sanchez is more like Rodgers or Schaub.Dillard=Bruce- These guys seem to have totally different body types and games to me - Dillard's strengths are his ups and his quicks, I cant recall Bruce making plays in the air or ankle breaking moves. Dillard is more like Lee Evans without the deep speed.I hate to nitpick compares, but these seem off to me, the kind of compares that give people who haven't seen the players the wrong impression.
Your comparisons fit better with what I've seen from these guys, Bloom.Thanks :popcorn:
 
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Sigmund Bloom said:
EBF - good thought-provoking work as always, although some of your comparisons have me :rolleyes:Maclin=Jennings - Jennings was a polished, veteran-like route runner when he came out, Maclin is anything but. I would compare Maclin to a bigger Ted Ginn.Brown-Felix Jones - Brown has ridiculous lower body strength and he's a workhorse, but one without a 2nd gear. Jones has sick quicks and long speed. I see these guys as completely different. Brown is more like Gore or a regular sized Michael Turner - deep speed.Sanchez=Garrard - Garrard is massive, rugged, and creates after the play breaks down, Sanchez is more of a pocket passer, average size, decent, but not overwhelming arm strength. Sanchez is more like Rodgers or Schaub.Dillard=Bruce- These guys seem to have totally different body types and games to me - Dillard's strengths are his ups and his quicks, I cant recall Bruce making plays in the air or ankle breaking moves. Dillard is more like Lee Evans without the deep speed.I hate to nitpick compares, but these seem off to me, the kind of compares that give people who haven't seen the players the wrong impression.
these were my only questions as well.... kinda puzzling really
 
22. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Positives: Tall with excellent hands. Made a number of big catches for the Buckeyes over the past two seasons. Polished player who does the little things well and gets the most out of his physical ability. Comes from an NFL family. Really helped himself at the combine, performing better than expected in drills.

Negatives: Neither quick nor fast. Not a threat after the catch. Really just a catch-and-fall WR with very limited upside.

Overall: What you see is what you get with Robiskie. He’s a solid player and he has decent computer numbers on paper, but he’s a very middling talent who doesn’t have the obvious physical gifts needed to rise above mediocrity. I see him as a backup type or a WR2 at best in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Michael Jenkins

I would say a 4.51 40 is fast. The guy is 6'3" 209.

Edit to say: I would put Robiskie in the same tier as Britt and Nicks

 
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22. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Positives: Tall with excellent hands. Made a number of big catches for the Buckeyes over the past two seasons. Polished player who does the little things well and gets the most out of his physical ability. Comes from an NFL family. Really helped himself at the combine, performing better than expected in drills.

Negatives: Neither quick nor fast. Not a threat after the catch. Really just a catch-and-fall WR with very limited upside.

Overall: What you see is what you get with Robiskie. He’s a solid player and he has decent computer numbers on paper, but he’s a very middling talent who doesn’t have the obvious physical gifts needed to rise above mediocrity. I see him as a backup type or a WR2 at best in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Michael Jenkins

I would say a 4.51 40 is fast. The guy is 6'3" 209.

Edit to say: I would but Robiskie in the same tier as Britt and Nicks
It isn't fast, but he has a good size/speed ratio. I agree with the WR2 assessment - and that's ok for a late 1st round prospect, good for a 2nd round pick.
 
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I still really think people are out-thinking themselves with Beanie. 8th? His upside alone is worth more than that. I know he has the motivation problems, but when he gets out onto the field he's far and away the best RB in this class IMHO. Those off the field "issues" certainly don't drop him that far for me.

I'm a bit miffed on McCoy being number 1 given what you wrote about him (unless you're just really down on this whole class). You basically called him a slower Reggie Bush with more jukies, and I think it's safe to say that Reggie Bush hasn't exactly dominated like many thought he would in the NFL. Bush's problems is not his jukes, the problem is that he could juke a guy so badly that he breaks the guy's ankles, but if the guy flails out his arm on the way down that happens to brush within 3 inches of Bush the wind gust alone will knock him over (basically he gets slowed down by arm tackles too much). In your writeup you say that McCoy has no lower body strength at all, so wouldn't he fall victim to the same failure?

If there's one thing I've noticed that separates all the good/great RBs from those below them, it's that the good/great guys all have the lower body strength to run through arm tackles and even break some tackles without slowing down. Reggie Bush can break tackles, but it slows him down enough for 5 other guys to be on top of him. When Adrian Peterson runs through a tackle he's still moving as fast as if the guy who tried to grab him was never even there in the first place. It's not just Peterson by any means, even when you look at the scat-back types, the good ones (like Westbrook) are the ones with the lower body strength to get through weak tackle attempts without slowing down.

EDIT: Nevermind, somehow I missed the right out there in the open sentence that these were for a PPR league, that changes things a lot.

 
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Shonn Greene's slowish 40 time doesn't concern you?

Holes open and close pretty quickly in the NFL and if you don't have the burst to hit them, there's only so much pile pushing a guy can do.

 
EBF-

I am curious why you are still putting Donald Brown in tier 2. Mayock had him as his #2 RB before the combine. Then Brown killed it there, and Wells, Moreno and Greene ran 4.59, 4.63, and 4.65 respectively.

Plus Brown was

1st in vertical jump 41.5"

2nd in broad jump 10'5" (to Wells at 10'8")

2nd in short shuttle 4.10

1st in long shuttle 11.30

5th in 40 yard dash: 4.51

So he's arguably the best athlete at the position this year. (We'll see what McCoy does later).

I realize the combine is only one factor into determining a good player. Brown led the nation in rushing last year, and scored 18 TDs. That came in the same conference as LeSean McCoy. I only have the ability to watch his highlight packages admittedly, but he sure looks like he's got plenty of shiftiness to make guy's miss. He looks like he can catch the ball as well, and his center of gravity seems low enough to me.

He's far less of a one year wonder than Greene as well. Brown rushed for over 1700 yards in two years preceding 2008. Greene had less than 400.

So in Brown, were talking about a guy than played against reasonably good competition in the Big East, compiling 3800 yards and 33 TDs in 698 career carries. He can catch, he can run, he's reportedly a high effort player, admittedly he may be a bit light at 210, but he's built correctly for the position. How difficult would it be to put on 5-10 pounds to get to a more ideal weight once he hits the NFL weight rooms as well?

I just think in this year of mediocre RB prospects, you may be missing the boat by not putting him in your top 2/3 RBs.

Overall though, as always fantastic job with the rankings.

 
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Sigmund Bloom said:
EBF - good thought-provoking work as always, although some of your comparisons have me :own3d:Maclin=Jennings - Jennings was a polished, veteran-like route runner when he came out, Maclin is anything but. I would compare Maclin to a bigger Ted Ginn.
Maybe a better way to put it is that Jennings is Maclin's upside. I agree that he's not as polished, but if you just look at the raw physical ability, I think they're similar. I feel like he has a lot more upside as a receiver than Ginn, who has always struck me as a promising return man with limited potential as a wideout.
Brown-Felix Jones - Brown has ridiculous lower body strength and he's a workhorse, but one without a 2nd gear. Jones has sick quicks and long speed. I see these guys as completely different. Brown is more like Gore or a regular sized Michael Turner - deep speed.
I think they're similar in that they're both shifty backs with great vision and instincts who lack conventional size. You're right that Brown is stronger than Felix. I considered making note of that in the comparison, but he's only 210 pounds and I don't think he's going to run through many tackles at the pro level. I think their speed is actually pretty similar.
Sanchez=Garrard - Garrard is massive, rugged, and creates after the play breaks down, Sanchez is more of a pocket passer, average size, decent, but not overwhelming arm strength. Sanchez is more like Rodgers or Schaub.
I'll buy the Rodgers comparison, although I think Sanchez is more of an enigma.
Dillard=Bruce- These guys seem to have totally different body types and games to me - Dillard's strengths are his ups and his quicks, I cant recall Bruce making plays in the air or ankle breaking moves. Dillard is more like Lee Evans without the deep speed.
I really struggled to find a comparison for Dillard. In my opinion there's no one in the NFL quite like him. He's a jump ball receiver trapped in a tiny body without the burst and speed you usually want to see from 5'10"-5'11" guys like Holmes and Harrison. I can see the Lee Evans comparison since both are smaller WRs who play in the air. But when I think of Lee Evans, I think of speed. When I think of Jarett Dillard, I think of crafty route running and exceptional hands. In that regard he's like Isaac Bruce (although Bruce certainly isn't a jump ball receiver).
 
I really wish you put out non-ppr rankings too since i'm in 5 non-ppr leagues and zero ppr leagues. If it's not too much trouble would you mind? I would actually prefer if the list was straight up for zealots leagues.

 
22. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Positives: Tall with excellent hands. Made a number of big catches for the Buckeyes over the past two seasons. Polished player who does the little things well and gets the most out of his physical ability. Comes from an NFL family. Really helped himself at the combine, performing better than expected in drills.

Negatives: Neither quick nor fast. Not a threat after the catch. Really just a catch-and-fall WR with very limited upside.

Overall: What you see is what you get with Robiskie. He’s a solid player and he has decent computer numbers on paper, but he’s a very middling talent who doesn’t have the obvious physical gifts needed to rise above mediocrity. I see him as a backup type or a WR2 at best in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Michael Jenkins

I would say a 4.51 40 is fast. The guy is 6'3" 209.

Edit to say: I would put Robiskie in the same tier as Britt and Nicks
Here's my issue with Robiskie:- He isn't going to run by anyone in the NFL.

- He isn't a threat after the catch.

So where are the yards going to come from?

He doesn't have the dynamic qualities to be an FF standout IMO. There's just no sizzle to his game.

Nicks and Britt have better RAC skills.

 
I really wish you put out non-ppr rankings too since i'm in 5 non-ppr leagues and zero ppr leagues. If it's not too much trouble would you mind? I would actually prefer if the list was straight up for zealots leagues.
You think you're at a jack-in-the-box drive-thru? :popcorn:
 
I still really think people are out-thinking themselves with Beanie. 8th? His upside alone is worth more than that. I know he has the motivation problems, but when he gets out onto the field he's far and away the best RB in this class IMHO. Those off the field "issues" certainly don't drop him that far for me.
My attitude with Wells has always been that he has the potential to be an impact FF player, but that I'll let someone else take the gamble. I don't like his toughness and I think his build and running style make him a prime injury risk. I've been accused of putting too much stock in body type and I might be guilty of that here, but watch this guy run. He has a very high center of gravity with mediocre elusiveness and no leg drive. That doesn't mean he's garbage. Like I said in an earlier post, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which he lands on a team with a starting opportunity and produces instant results. He has that potential. If you're looking for an immediate impact RB with a high ceiling, he's a candidate as high as 1.01. I'll be surprised if he has sustained long term value though. I think the most likely scenario is a quick, spectacular flame-out.
I'm a bit miffed on McCoy being number 1 given what you wrote about him (unless you're just really down on this whole class). You basically called him a slower Reggie Bush with more jukies, and I think it's safe to say that Reggie Bush hasn't exactly dominated like many thought he would in the NFL. Bush's problems is not his jukes, the problem is that he could juke a guy so badly that he breaks the guy's ankles, but if the guy flails out his arm on the way down that happens to brush within 3 inches of Bush the wind gust alone will knock him over (basically he gets slowed down by arm tackles too much). In your writeup you say that McCoy has no lower body strength at all, so wouldn't he fall victim to the same failure?If there's one thing I've noticed that separates all the good/great RBs from those below them, it's that the good/great guys all have the lower body strength to run through arm tackles and even break some tackles without slowing down. Reggie Bush can break tackles, but it slows him down enough for 5 other guys to be on top of him. When Adrian Peterson runs through a tackle he's still moving as fast as if the guy who tried to grab him was never even there in the first place. It's not just Peterson by any means, even when you look at the scat-back types, the good ones (like Westbrook) are the ones with the lower body strength to get through weak tackle attempts without slowing down.
Maybe you're right, but I missed out on some nice players last year because I got too hung up on power. Reggie Bush has been a mediocre NFL player, but he's still a stud in PPR leagues because he's a great receiver. When I look at McCoy, I see a guy who has obvious impact player potential in the PPR format. His power is a concern, but the team that drafts him isn't going to ask him to wear down the defense and get the tough yards. They're going to try to get him in space and allow him to use his rare quickness to make big plays. If he goes to a team with an entrenched starter or a team that plans to use him in a committee, downgrade him accordingly. He's not a bulletproof, can't-miss #1.
 
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Shonn Greene's slowish 40 time doesn't concern you?

Holes open and close pretty quickly in the NFL and if you don't have the burst to hit them, there's only so much pile pushing a guy can do.
You're right that holes open and close quickly. In a sense, that's the reason why I'm not worried about his 40 speed. For all the importance we place on big plays, it's important to remember that the average NFL run goes for about 4 yards. Green isn't going to run away from many players at the next level, but he has the quick feet, fluid hips, and powerful lower body to be a force in the first 5 yards. When you look at the overall picture, he's a very good prospect. Yes, he's a step slow, but he has the best frame of any RB in this class, he was dominant in college, and his marks in the jumping drills at the combine suggest that he has plenty of pop in his lower body. I think he's actually one of the safest picks in this class. You know exactly what you're getting with Shonn Greene: a low YPC battering ram who should be able to step in and produce Rudi Johnson type results immediately.

I think all you have to do is watch some of his work to see that he moves plenty well for his size:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWZwH9VVJU

He's not a plodder or a sluggish tub of goo. I like his chances.

 
I really wish you put out non-ppr rankings too since i'm in 5 non-ppr leagues and zero ppr leagues. If it's not too much trouble would you mind? I would actually prefer if the list was straight up for zealots leagues.
I think in non-PPR you usually have to favor RBs. My top four would be Moreno, Greene, Wells, and McCoy in some order. I would probably downgrade McCoy and upgrade Greene and Wells. Wells has the highest ceiling. Greene is the safest pick. Moreno is somewhere in between. I'd consider Donald Brown at 1.05, but I'd also look at the WRs. I'd put Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin, DHB, Nicks, and Britt in the top 12. I would take all of them over the likes of Sheets/A. Brown/Peerman. The talent gap there is too big to justify reaching for a RB.
 
I'm a bit miffed on McCoy being number 1 given what you wrote about him (unless you're just really down on this whole class). You basically called him a slower Reggie Bush with more jukies, and I think it's safe to say that Reggie Bush hasn't exactly dominated like many thought he would in the NFL. Bush's problems is not his jukes, the problem is that he could juke a guy so badly that he breaks the guy's ankles, but if the guy flails out his arm on the way down that happens to brush within 3 inches of Bush the wind gust alone will knock him over (basically he gets slowed down by arm tackles too much). In your writeup you say that McCoy has no lower body strength at all, so wouldn't he fall victim to the same failure?If there's one thing I've noticed that separates all the good/great RBs from those below them, it's that the good/great guys all have the lower body strength to run through arm tackles and even break some tackles without slowing down. Reggie Bush can break tackles, but it slows him down enough for 5 other guys to be on top of him. When Adrian Peterson runs through a tackle he's still moving as fast as if the guy who tried to grab him was never even there in the first place. It's not just Peterson by any means, even when you look at the scat-back types, the good ones (like Westbrook) are the ones with the lower body strength to get through weak tackle attempts without slowing down.
Maybe you're right, but I missed out on some nice players last year because I got too hung up on power. Reggie Bush has been a mediocre NFL player, but he's still a stud in PPR leagues because he's a great receiver. When I look at McCoy, I see a guy who has obvious impact player potential in the PPR format. His power is a concern, but the team that drafts him isn't going to ask him to wear down the defense and get the tough yards. They're going to try to get him in space and allow him to use his rare quickness to make big plays. If he goes to a team with an entrenched starter or a team that plans to use him in a committee, downgrade him accordingly. He's not a bulletproof, can't-miss #1.
Yeah, somehow I missed that these were PPR rankings even though you put it out there in plain sight that that's what they were. That makes things pretty different and I could definitely see McCoy going #1 in that format even with those concerns.
 
EBF-I am curious why you are still putting Donald Brown in tier 2. Mayock had him as his #2 RB before the combine. Then Brown killed it there, and Wells, Moreno and Greene ran 4.59, 4.63, and 4.65 respectively. Plus Brown was 1st in vertical jump 41.5"2nd in broad jump 10'5" (to Wells at 10'8")2nd in short shuttle 4.101st in long shuttle 11.305th in 40 yard dash: 4.51So he's arguably the best athlete at the position this year. (We'll see what McCoy does later).I realize the combine is only one factor into determining a good player. Brown led the nation in rushing last year, and scored 18 TDs. That came in the same conference as LeSean McCoy. I only have the ability to watch his highlight packages admittedly, but he sure looks like he's got plenty of shiftiness to make guy's miss. He looks like he can catch the ball as well, and his center of gravity seems low enough to me. He's far less of a one year wonder than Greene as well. Brown rushed for over 1700 yards in two years preceding 2008. Greene had less than 400.So in Brown, were talking about a guy than played against reasonably good competition in the Big East, compiling 3800 yards and 33 TDs in 698 career carries. He can catch, he can run, he's reportedly a high effort player, admittedly he may be a bit light at 210, but he's built correctly for the position. How difficult would it be to put on 5-10 pounds to get to a more ideal weight once he hits the NFL weight rooms as well? I just think in this year of mediocre RB prospects, you may be missing the boat by not putting him in your top 2/3 RBs.Overall though, as always fantastic job with the rankings.
I'm familiar with Brown. I actually picked him up off waivers in my college dynasty league when he was a freshman. I've had him on my roster ever since then. I know that he's been a great back for the Huskies. Not only was he effective, he was downright dominant at times. He really had some monster games.As someone who follows the combine pretty closely, I also know that his performance was off the charts. His marks are competitive with virtually any back in recent memory. They're right up there with Tomlinson, Bush, and Peterson. Donald Brown is a guy that I should be very high on. Despite all of that, I'm having a hard time getting excited about him. I think it might be because he's a bit of a size/speed tweener. He has tremendous lateral agility, but he doesn't have the raw speed of a typical small back and he doesn't have the size and power of a workhorse type. So what's his role at the next level? Hard for me to say. I think you need to pay close attention to where he lands on draft day. He could be nice on a team that's willing to give him a starting job. At the same time, I actually think he's gone from being underrated to being slightly overrated. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I don't view him as a can't-miss starting caliber back.
 
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22. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Positives: Tall with excellent hands. Made a number of big catches for the Buckeyes over the past two seasons. Polished player who does the little things well and gets the most out of his physical ability. Comes from an NFL family. Really helped himself at the combine, performing better than expected in drills.

Negatives: Neither quick nor fast. Not a threat after the catch. Really just a catch-and-fall WR with very limited upside.

Overall: What you see is what you get with Robiskie. He’s a solid player and he has decent computer numbers on paper, but he’s a very middling talent who doesn’t have the obvious physical gifts needed to rise above mediocrity. I see him as a backup type or a WR2 at best in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Michael Jenkins

I would say a 4.51 40 is fast. The guy is 6'3" 209.

Edit to say: I would but Robiskie in the same tier as Britt and Nicks
It isn't fast, but he has a good size/speed ratio. I agree with the WR2 assessment - and that's ok for a late 1st round prospect, good for a 2nd round pick.
4.51 is fast...not blazing but it's fast.
 
Sigmund Bloom said:
EBF - good thought-provoking work as always, although some of your comparisons have me :lmao:Maclin=Jennings - Jennings was a polished, veteran-like route runner when he came out, Maclin is anything but. I would compare Maclin to a bigger Ted Ginn.Brown-Felix Jones - Brown has ridiculous lower body strength and he's a workhorse, but one without a 2nd gear. Jones has sick quicks and long speed. I see these guys as completely different. Brown is more like Gore or a regular sized Michael Turner - deep speed.Sanchez=Garrard - Garrard is massive, rugged, and creates after the play breaks down, Sanchez is more of a pocket passer, average size, decent, but not overwhelming arm strength. Sanchez is more like Rodgers or Schaub.Dillard=Bruce- These guys seem to have totally different body types and games to me - Dillard's strengths are his ups and his quicks, I cant recall Bruce making plays in the air or ankle breaking moves. Dillard is more like Lee Evans without the deep speed.I hate to nitpick compares, but these seem off to me, the kind of compares that give people who haven't seen the players the wrong impression.
Your comparisons fit better with what I've seen from these guys, Bloom.Thanks :thumbup:
Dillard reminds me a little of Steve Smith(Carolina)?? Maybe not the speed Smith has/had 4 years ago?? But Dillard has great hands, he goes up after the ball no matter where it is, etc!! He just looks really aggressive like Steve Smith does during game time. He looks like a natural.
 
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In the "Post-combine top 15 rookie prospects thread", I actually did a top 27 (and added 8 mor Wrs and 8 mor Rbs in alphabetical order) for PPR.

Here's where we differ by 5 or more places in our lists:

D Brown my list 4; yours 9

Nicks my list 5; yours 10

Robiskie my list 10; yours 22

Greene my list 14; yours 4 I don't like him form PPR that much

Jennings my list 15; yours N/R I might have him too high at 15, but I think he should be on your list

Freeman mine 17; yours 23

Iglesius mine 18; yours N/R

White mine 19; I may be too high on him but he has versatility.

Dillard mine 20; yours 14 I think i should have moved him up a little

Gibson mine 22; yours N/R

A Brown mine 24; yours 17

I listed Casey, Cook, and Nelson as 25-27

You had Tate (16), Pettigrew (18) , Peerman (19 ), and Massaqui (21) - only Peerman made my "honorable mentions)

this seems like major differences, but on several we were pretty close. Comments on mine:

RBs:

Top tier: Moreno, McCoy, D.Brown

Tier 2: PPR - Wells, Sheets, Jennings, Greene Tier 2: Reg Scoring: Wells, Greene, Jennings, Sheets

Tier 3: A Brown

Tier 4: J Davis, Goodson, Foster, G.Johnson, J Johnson, Peerman, Ringer, Scott (alphabetically)

Comments: Tier 1 = 1st round potential - very solid overall game; Tier 2: Some question marks but very talented;

Tier 3: Andre Brown has this one to himself - he's below the tier 2 guys, but above tier 4

Tier 4: These 8 guys are tightly stacked as mid-round picks and I didn't try to rank. There's quite a variety of RBs here and it depends on what a team (even a dynasty team) is looking for: Bernard Scott has the highest ceiling but lowest floor - Gartrell Johnson (he of the tree-trunk thighs) is a N & S pile driver with good receiveing skills ( reminds me of a more explosive PJ Hillis).

WRs:

Tier 1a: Crabtree

Tier 1b: Nicks, DBH, Harvin, Maclin, Britt, Robiskie (All VERY closely ranked, but this is kind of the order I like them in - all should go in the top 40 of the NFL draft

Tier 2: none - (I'd slot the tier 2 RBs in here)

Tier 3: Iglesius, White (WR/QB), Dillard, Butler, Gibson, McKinley

Tier 4: Barden, Cosby, Kelly, Knox, Murphy, Thomas, Wallace, D.Williams (again, alphabetically)

QBs: Tier 1 Stafford, Sanchez Tier 2: Freeman

TEs: Tier 3 Casey, Cook, Nelson (Alphabetically - very little separation here - these guys are all pass catching TEs with higher talent than tier 3, but TEs have less value fantasywise than QBs, WRs, or RBs - the TE class also has about 3 more real good fantasy prospects, but so much depends on which team drafts them and how they are used.

 
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In the "Post-combine top 15 rookie prospects thread", I actually did a top 27 (and added 8 mor Wrs and 8 mor Rbs in alphabetical order) for PPR.

Here's where we differ by 5 or more places in our lists:

D Brown my list 4; yours 9

Nicks my list 5; yours 10

Robiskie my list 10; yours 22

Greene my list 14; yours 4 I don't like him form PPR that much

Jennings my list 15; yours N/R I might have him too high at 15, but I think he should be on your list

Freeman mine 17; yours 23

Iglesius mine 18; yours N/R

White mine 19; I may be too high on him but he has versatility.

Dillard mine 20; yours 14 I think i should have moved him up a little

Gibson mine 22; yours N/R

A Brown mine 24; yours 17
Nicks - Like him, but 5 seems awfully high given the strength of this WR group.Robiskie - Just don't see any upside here.

Jennings - Doesn't have the tools to be more than a backup IMO.

Iglesias - Overrated big program WR who lacks special qualities. Bobby Wade at best.

White - Versatility doesn't matter. If he's not a day one passer then he's not worth a top 24 pick. I think people have a tendency to get fooled by athletic QBs (V. Young, T. Jackson). QBs don't make their living with their legs.

 
EBF-I am curious why you are still putting Donald Brown in tier 2. Mayock had him as his #2 RB before the combine. Then Brown killed it there, and Wells, Moreno and Greene ran 4.59, 4.63, and 4.65 respectively. Plus Brown was 1st in vertical jump 41.5"2nd in broad jump 10'5" (to Wells at 10'8")2nd in short shuttle 4.101st in long shuttle 11.305th in 40 yard dash: 4.51So he's arguably the best athlete at the position this year. (We'll see what McCoy does later).I realize the combine is only one factor into determining a good player. Brown led the nation in rushing last year, and scored 18 TDs. That came in the same conference as LeSean McCoy. I only have the ability to watch his highlight packages admittedly, but he sure looks like he's got plenty of shiftiness to make guy's miss. He looks like he can catch the ball as well, and his center of gravity seems low enough to me. He's far less of a one year wonder than Greene as well. Brown rushed for over 1700 yards in two years preceding 2008. Greene had less than 400.So in Brown, were talking about a guy than played against reasonably good competition in the Big East, compiling 3800 yards and 33 TDs in 698 career carries. He can catch, he can run, he's reportedly a high effort player, admittedly he may be a bit light at 210, but he's built correctly for the position. How difficult would it be to put on 5-10 pounds to get to a more ideal weight once he hits the NFL weight rooms as well? I just think in this year of mediocre RB prospects, you may be missing the boat by not putting him in your top 2/3 RBs.Overall though, as always fantastic job with the rankings.
I'm familiar with Brown. I actually picked him up off waivers in my college dynasty league when he was a freshman. I've had him on my roster ever since then. I know that he's been a great back for the Huskies. Not only was he effective, he was downright dominant at times. He really had some monster games.As someone who follows the combine pretty closely, I also know that his performance was off the charts. His marks are competitive with virtually any back in recent memory. They're right up there with Tomlinson, Bush, and Peterson. Donald Brown is a guy that I should be very high on. Despite all of that, I'm having a hard time getting excited about him. I think it might be because he's a bit of a size/speed tweener. He has tremendous lateral agility, but he doesn't have the raw speed of a typical small back and he doesn't have the size and power of a workhorse type. So what's his role at the next level? Hard for me to say. I think you need to pay close attention to where he lands on draft day. He could be nice on a team that's willing to give him a starting job. At the same time, I actually think he's gone from being underrated to being slightly overrated. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I don't view him as a can't-miss starting caliber back.
Thanks EBF.I mean this question seriously as well, not being a smart###Would these guys be considered tweeners? They make up 4 of the top 7 RBs all time. Emmitt Smith 5'9" 210Walter Payton 5'10 200Curtis Martin 5'11" 210Tony Dorsett 5'11" 192
 
Would these guys be considered tweeners? They make up 4 of the top 7 RBs all time. Emmitt Smith 5'9" 210Walter Payton 5'10 200Curtis Martin 5'11" 210Tony Dorsett 5'11" 192
Payton and Dorsett played in a different era when players were smaller across the board.I recall Emitt being a bit thicker and more powerful than Brown. He also had the benefit of playing with a Hall of Fame supporting cast.Martin is a decent compare for Brown.
 
22. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Positives: Tall with excellent hands. Made a number of big catches for the Buckeyes over the past two seasons. Polished player who does the little things well and gets the most out of his physical ability. Comes from an NFL family. Really helped himself at the combine, performing better than expected in drills.

Negatives: Neither quick nor fast. Not a threat after the catch. Really just a catch-and-fall WR with very limited upside.

Overall: What you see is what you get with Robiskie. He’s a solid player and he has decent computer numbers on paper, but he’s a very middling talent who doesn’t have the obvious physical gifts needed to rise above mediocrity. I see him as a backup type or a WR2 at best in the NFL.

NFL Comparison: Michael Jenkins

I would say a 4.51 40 is fast. The guy is 6'3" 209.

Edit to say: I would put Robiskie in the same tier as Britt and Nicks
Here's my issue with Robiskie:- He isn't going to run by anyone in the NFL.

- He isn't a threat after the catch.

So where are the yards going to come from?

He doesn't have the dynamic qualities to be an FF standout IMO. There's just no sizzle to his game.

Nicks and Britt have better RAC skills.
:thumbup: Scouting report on Robiskie from a friend of mine, who is a very knowledgeable Buckeye fan:

Seems destined to be a No. 4 wide receiver who catches 18 balls a season----all of them going for first downs. I haven't seen his combine results, other than an impressive 37-inch vertical leap, but even if he runs a fast forty I'm not buying it; the guy can't get separation from anyone. Pros: Good guy; likable; smart; dependable. Cons: Slow; not fast; lacks quickness.
 
I don't think we're going to see solid players available in the third round of rookie drafts like we did last season.
I think the exact opposite. Guys you don't have listed include Nate Davis, Iglesias, Murphy, D. Williams, Gibson, Barden, Thomas, Wallace, Collie, Devin Moore, Davis, Ringer, Jennings, Goodson, Sutton.... just to name a few. By the way did you forget Jennings or you really don't have him in the top 24?
 
EBF-I am curious why you are still putting Donald Brown in tier 2. Mayock had him as his #2 RB before the combine. Then Brown killed it there, and Wells, Moreno and Greene ran 4.59, 4.63, and 4.65 respectively. Plus Brown was 1st in vertical jump 41.5"2nd in broad jump 10'5" (to Wells at 10'8")2nd in short shuttle 4.101st in long shuttle 11.305th in 40 yard dash: 4.51So he's arguably the best athlete at the position this year. (We'll see what McCoy does later).I realize the combine is only one factor into determining a good player. Brown led the nation in rushing last year, and scored 18 TDs. That came in the same conference as LeSean McCoy. I only have the ability to watch his highlight packages admittedly, but he sure looks like he's got plenty of shiftiness to make guy's miss. He looks like he can catch the ball as well, and his center of gravity seems low enough to me. He's far less of a one year wonder than Greene as well. Brown rushed for over 1700 yards in two years preceding 2008. Greene had less than 400.So in Brown, were talking about a guy than played against reasonably good competition in the Big East, compiling 3800 yards and 33 TDs in 698 career carries. He can catch, he can run, he's reportedly a high effort player, admittedly he may be a bit light at 210, but he's built correctly for the position. How difficult would it be to put on 5-10 pounds to get to a more ideal weight once he hits the NFL weight rooms as well? I just think in this year of mediocre RB prospects, you may be missing the boat by not putting him in your top 2/3 RBs.Overall though, as always fantastic job with the rankings.
I'm familiar with Brown. I actually picked him up off waivers in my college dynasty league when he was a freshman. I've had him on my roster ever since then. I know that he's been a great back for the Huskies. Not only was he effective, he was downright dominant at times. He really had some monster games.As someone who follows the combine pretty closely, I also know that his performance was off the charts. His marks are competitive with virtually any back in recent memory. They're right up there with Tomlinson, Bush, and Peterson. Donald Brown is a guy that I should be very high on. Despite all of that, I'm having a hard time getting excited about him. I think it might be because he's a bit of a size/speed tweener. He has tremendous lateral agility, but he doesn't have the raw speed of a typical small back and he doesn't have the size and power of a workhorse type. So what's his role at the next level? Hard for me to say. I think you need to pay close attention to where he lands on draft day. He could be nice on a team that's willing to give him a starting job. At the same time, I actually think he's gone from being underrated to being slightly overrated. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I don't view him as a can't-miss starting caliber back.
Thanks EBF.I mean this question seriously as well, not being a smart###Would these guys be considered tweeners? They make up 4 of the top 7 RBs all time. Emmitt Smith 5'9" 210Walter Payton 5'10 200Curtis Martin 5'11" 210Tony Dorsett 5'11" 192
I actually might like the Curtis Martin comparison.
 
I don't think we're going to see solid players available in the third round of rookie drafts like we did last season.
I think the exact opposite. Guys you don't have listed include Nate Davis, Iglesias, Murphy, D. Williams, Gibson, Barden, Thomas, Wallace, Collie, Devin Moore, Davis, Ringer, Jennings, Goodson, Sutton.... just to name a few.
To each his own. Frankly, that list makes me want to :confused: .There's always a gem or two that slips through the cracks, but you can bet that I'm not aiming to acquire any extra 3rd round rookie picks this year.
By the way did you forget Jennings or you really don't have him in the top 24?
I didn't forget him, I just don't think he's very good. He's a middling athlete on paper and he doesn't stand out to me in clips.We'll see where he goes on draft day. This is a pretty putrid class after the top 15 or so, so maybe he'll become a candidate in that 16-24 range if he lands on a team with an opportunity for early playing time. As of right now I don't see any reason to believe that he'll ever be more than a backup in the NFL.
 

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