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Top RB's (Talent) (1 Viewer)

E

Eminence

Footballguy
In terms of pure talent, not situation. What are your Top Running Backs in the league?

As of right now:

1.) Steven Jackson

2.) Adrian Peterson

3.) LaDainian Tomlinson

4.) Frank Gore

5.) DeAngelo Williams

On the fringe:

-Maurice Jones-Drew

 
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Not trying to be a #### here but in terms of your thread title, it sucks and would be a whole lot more helpful if it gave some hint of what you are going to be talking about.

 
1.) Steven Jackson

2.) Adrian Peterson

3.) Maurice Jones-Drew

4.) DeAngelo Williams

5.) Michael Turner

 
Eminence said:
In terms of pure talent, not situation. What are your Top 5 Running Backs in the league?1.) Steven Jackson2.) Adrian Peterson3.) Maurice Jones-Drew4.) DeAngelo Williams5.) Michael Turner
Click to expand...
In terms of pure talent no way Im putting Sjax over Peterson or DeAngelo in the top 5.. Portis is more of a "talent" than Williams. :confused: Im gonna have to come back to this ranking but can already tell there is alot of short sightedness here about fantasy points compared to real real skill or talent.
 
This is a very difficult question, but a fun one to respond. I've been wanting to do this for a while, so this is my rough draft answer. If you asked to rate by skill and not talent (techniques more than athleticism), I think a guys like Portis, Barber, and Tomlinson would be up there. I'm going to first answer by individual skill sets and then try to come to an overall answer. I'm going to base this on players being at 100% health at this stage of their careers. The reason I say this is because if Frank Gore were at his 100% college health as a freshman and could have carried it over to the NFL, he'd easily be at or near the top of every list considering Larry Coker said Gore was the most talented back he ever saw coming out of high school and that included Barry Sanders, who he coached at Oklahoma State.

Speaking of weighting, I would argue the weight of categories from most to least would be Vision, Balance/Acceleration (equal weight), Elusiveness, Power. So here's one way I'd try to do it.

Vision - 5pts

Balance - 4pts

Acceleration - 4pts

Elusiveness - 2 pts

Power - 1 pt

Ranking within each category would be 5pts for the best guy and 1 pt for the bottom guy. Again this is just something I'm experimenting with here. The total scores from adding these up would differ greatly if I made this a top 10 or 15, because a guy like Portis, Gore, or Ronnie Brown could get more points than just doing a top 5 in each category.

Elusiveness -The ability to make strong lateral cuts, spin moves, dips, head fakes, or stutter steps to avoid a hit or tackle.

MJD- 7 pts = 5pts (top rank) +2pts (elusiveness category score)

Westbrook 6 pts

Ladainian Tomlinson 5pts

Adrian Peterson 4pts

DeAngelo Williams 3 pts

Power - The ability to inflict more punishment on a defender and break tackles and gain yards after contact as the aggressor in the collision with leg drive, stiff arms, and body lean.

Adrian Peterson 6pts = 5pts (top rank) + 1pt (power category)

Steven Jackson 5pts

Larry Johnson 4pts

Michael Turner 3 pts

Marion Barber 2 pts

Balance - The ability break tackles, stay upright, or gain yards after contact when the aggressor in the collision is the defender. Most backs have solid technique with their pad level to maintain balance to get the extra couple of yards in a collision with good pad level, but the best also take indirect shots and somehow stay upright and moving forward.

Adrian Peterson 9 pts = 5pts (top rank) + 4pts (Balance category points)

Marion Barber 8 pts

Steven Jackson 7 pts

Ladainian Tomlinson 6 pts

MJD 5 pts

Vision - Can the runner see the creases at the line of scrimmage or lanes in the open field; anticipate when these creases or lanes will open and have the patience to time his run accurately; and make the best choice with the direction he takes his run? I think by far this is the most important trait that separates the average NFL runner from a really good one. I would weight this category more than the others.

Clinton Portis - 10 pts = 5 pts (top in category) + 5 pts(category points)

Ladainian Tomlinson - 9 pts

MJD 8 pts

DeAngelo Williams 7 pts

Frank Gore 6 pts

Acceleration - This is short-range quickness. The burst a runner has when he hits a hole. The ability to accelerate from a stop. The ability to get the corner on a run to the perimeter. I could see this being more important than balance, but I'd say they are almost equal. I just think it's inevitable you're going to get hit and tackled and balance is better to have.

Adrian Peterson - 9 pts

Darren McFadden - 8 pts

Ladainian Tomlinson - 7 pts

DeAngelo Williams - 6 pts

MJD - 5 pts

Overall

Adrian Peterson 38

Ladainian Tomlinson 27

Maurice Jones Drew 25

DeAngelo Williams 16

Stephen Jackson 12

And speaking from pure physical talent?

Jonathan Stewart

Adrian Peterson

Ladainian Tomlinson

DeAngelo Williams

Ronnie Brown

 
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Good stuff Matt.

How would you rank RBs as blockers?

I am trying to think if anyone else is better at this than Portis and I consider it to be a talent. Not a useful one for fantasy in itself but a talent none the less.

 
sheerterror said:
I'm truly shocked at the lack of Brian Westbrook love in this thread.
Click to expand...
Had him on both my lists as I see it as a cut off for elite RBs. He and LT are 30 so they are a little lower than the younger guys.Portis hurts himself being left in to block so often. But he is better protection than Cooley is so he stays in to watch for the blitz most of the time before releasing into a pattern.
 
In no particular order:

Peterson

MJD

S. Jackson

Gore

Deangelo Williams

I base my list on total overall game; rushing, receiving, blocking, physical tools.

Peterson is too elite at rushing to be downgraded for no more than average receiving skills. MJD, Jackson, and Gore all have great all-around games.... they are above average to elite it every facet. Deangelo makes the list, but I am not nearly as confident with him.

Near misses:

LT - age and injuries have degraded him. Still good, but not elite, imo.

Westy - very torn between him and Deangelo. I don't think their games are that far apart, though Westy has the edge in receiving. My thinking is that Westy's injuries knock him down.

Chris Johnson - Elite speed, probably a good receiver, but not enough power. I feel he would just be pretty good if he didn't play behind a good offensive line. Most RBs fall into that category, but I think the elite guys would still be successful regardless of situation. Look at Steven Jackson last year.

Turner - Totally invisible in the passing game, but I still almost like him as much as DeAngelo and Westy because of his elite power and balance.

Portis - wear and tear has seemingly taken away his explosiveness. Still very good, but not elite.

~~~~~

I don't see anybody else being in consideration.

 
No way is Portis even in this discussion anymore. Maybe at one point sure, but he is no longer willing or able to make secondary defenders miss and lacks top end speed.

He is still a great back, and probably the best pound for pound blocking RB in the game not playing FB.

Also shocked at the love for Gore. Chris Johnson should get some more love and I think Felix Jones will eventually be in the discussion.

 
I'd go with:

Williams

Peterson

Johnson

Westbrook

Tomlinson

I'm surprised so many people had MJD as top five in terms of talent. The only top five list he'd be on for me is PPR.

 
1. Tomlinson

2. Peterson

3. Stewart

4. Beanie Wells

5. Jackson

I like big backs with speed as the most talented backs. Beanie reminds me alot of Peterson when he came out. Same type of question marks.

 
Biabreakable said:
Good stuff Matt.How would you rank RBs as blockers?I am trying to think if anyone else is better at this than Portis and I consider it to be a talent. Not a useful one for fantasy in itself but a talent none the less.
Click to expand...
Edgerrin James has to be very high on that list. Joseph Addai is pretty good, too. Those two come to mind right away. In fact, from a technique standpoint I think James is the best runner at getting his pads low in the league. There was a time he was a clear, top-five talent. One of my favorite RBs to watch. In 1999 and 2000 he was special and during those years well after his knee injury his technique and vision were so good that he was still one of the better backs in the league despite losing some of his speed and quickness. It says how good he really was - much like Gore being a great talent despite the fact his ACL tear really robbed him of dominating physical skills. Westbrook would probably get more love from me if this were a top 10 list. His vision and elusiveness are very close to top five quality on my list and I'm sure he could easily be exchanged with other players there. His receiving would probably earn him best in category and if I added that into my rough categorization of skills, he'd probably be in my top five. Of course, Jackson is good at this too.
 
Eminence said:
In terms of pure talent, not situation. What are your Top 5 Running Backs in the league?1.) Steven Jackson2.) Adrian Peterson3.) Maurice Jones-Drew4.) DeAngelo Williams5.) Michael Turner
Click to expand...
if it's based on talent and not age...LTEdgePetersonPortisWestbrook
 
Surprised Reggie Bush hasn't been mentioned yet. I think he return skills should be a factor as well...

Pure skill, age not a factor

1. L Tomlinson

2. A Peterson

3. S Jackson

4. R Bush

5. B Westbrook

 
How anyone can have a top-5 list of "talented" RBS playing, and not have LT on it is beyond me. LT is one of the most talented RBs to EVER play the game, much less among the current NFL runningbacks.

1) Peterson

2) LT

3) Portis

4) Westbrook

5) CJ3

Other extremely "talented" backs who either had injuries limit their ability to display their talent, or have otherwise been limited:

Edgerrin James

Felix Jones

Joseph Addai

Jones-Drew

Reggie Bush

Steven Jacskon

 
Banger said:
Eminence said:
In terms of pure talent, not situation. What are your Top 5 Running Backs in the league?1.) Steven Jackson2.) Adrian Peterson3.) Maurice Jones-Drew4.) DeAngelo Williams5.) Michael Turner
Click to expand...
if it's based on talent and not age...LTEdgePetersonPortisWestbrook
Click to expand...
In their primes, sure. But I think it's obvious that the question is who are the top 5 CURRENT talents. This is why LT and Westy and even Portis are being left off of a lot of lists.
 
Biabreakable said:
sheerterror said:
I'm truly shocked at the lack of Brian Westbrook love in this thread.
Click to expand...
Had him on both my lists as I see it as a cut off for elite RBs. He and LT are 30 so they are a little lower than the younger guys.
Click to expand...
But age doesn't eliminate talent. It's just the body is unable to display the talent... see every bit of talent is within the brain which controls the muscles, etc. The brain still sends out all the signals, the body just can't respond as quickly as it used to. You really have to ignore age when it comes to "talent" conversations.
 
switz said:
Biabreakable said:
sheerterror said:
I'm truly shocked at the lack of Brian Westbrook love in this thread.
Click to expand...
Had him on both my lists as I see it as a cut off for elite RBs. He and LT are 30 so they are a little lower than the younger guys.
Click to expand...
But age doesn't eliminate talent. It's just the body is unable to display the talent... see every bit of talent is within the brain which controls the muscles, etc. The brain still sends out all the signals, the body just can't respond as quickly as it used to. You really have to ignore age when it comes to "talent" conversations.
Click to expand...
The original post was pretty vauge. Been cleared up a bit by the title change, I kind of went off on my own tangent.If we are talking about all time then of course sweetness and Barry would have to be up there.
 
Jonathan Stewart

Adrian Peterson

Ladainian Tomlinson

DeAngelo Williams

Ronnie Brown

I like this list, I think LT is slipping fast though. I think Ronnie Brown is a very talented RB. He has underrated moves and vision and is tough.

I think by the end of 2009, Knowshon Moreno will be close to making this list too.

 
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Great topic, it got me thinking about what some RB's would do on other teams...talent wise my top 5 is:

Adrian Peterson

LaDainian Tomlinson

Steven Jackson

Brian Westbrook

Ronnie Brown

Also receiving votes: DeAngelo and Jonathan Stewart, Portis, and Frank Gore.

I think you have to take into account age, or else Freddy T makes the list. I'm not taking off LT or Westy yet though because if they are 100% healthy I think both still have it, we'll see though.

 
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switz said:
Biabreakable said:
sheerterror said:
I'm truly shocked at the lack of Brian Westbrook love in this thread.
Click to expand...
Had him on both my lists as I see it as a cut off for elite RBs. He and LT are 30 so they are a little lower than the younger guys.
Click to expand...
But age doesn't eliminate talent. It's just the body is unable to display the talent... see every bit of talent is within the brain which controls the muscles, etc. The brain still sends out all the signals, the body just can't respond as quickly as it used to. You really have to ignore age when it comes to "talent" conversations.
Click to expand...
I don't think so...if your body can't display your talent, you don't have it. Ryan Grant's brain might be sending out signals to hit the hole just as fast as ADP....but if his body can't get him there as fast, he's less talented.
 
money.never.sleeps said:
Eminence said:
In terms of pure talent, not situation. What are your Top 5 Running Backs in the league?1.) Steven Jackson2.) Adrian Peterson3.) Maurice Jones-Drew4.) DeAngelo Williams5.) Michael Turner
Click to expand...
In terms of pure talent no way Im putting Sjax over Peterson or DeAngelo in the top 5.. Portis is more of a "talent" than Williams. :2cents: Im gonna have to come back to this ranking but can already tell there is alot of short sightedness here about fantasy points compared to real real skill or talent.
Click to expand...
:lmao:
 
To clear up any questions, this means their pure talent as of right now. Sure Edgerrin and Portis at one point were enormous talents, but it has dwindled with age.

But please don't be limited by my original post. :unsure: I left it vague on purpose, to allow for more discussion.

Also I've took into consideration what was said in this thread, and have updated my list.

As of right now:

1.) Steven Jackson

2.) Adrian Peterson

3.) LaDainian Tomlinson

4.) Frank Gore

5.) DeAngelo Williams

On the fringe:

-Maurice Jones-Drew

 
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Eminence said:
To clear up any questions, this means their pure talent as of right now. Sure Edgerrin and Portis at one point were enormous talents, but it has dwindled with age.
Click to expand...
:thumbup: Otherwise, we could include certain RBs whose injuries have prevented them from becoming elite performers. IMO, Chris Perry was among the most talented backs before his injuries deroded his talent. Right now, just their talent:ADCJ3McFaddenJ-StewRonnie Brown
 
dotman said:
switz said:
But age doesn't eliminate talent. It's just the body is unable to display the talent... see every bit of talent is within the brain which controls the muscles, etc. The brain still sends out all the signals, the body just can't respond as quickly as it used to. You really have to ignore age when it comes to "talent" conversations.
Click to expand...
I don't think so...if your body can't display your talent, you don't have it. Ryan Grant's brain might be sending out signals to hit the hole just as fast as ADP....but if his body can't get him there as fast, he's less talented.
Click to expand...
Not to drag this out... but realistically, if there are two 22 year old players, both had 4 years high school, 3 or 4 years college, and they enter the NFL... the differentiator in their talent is truly brain driven. In many dictionaries a synonym for talent is genius, it's defined as natural ability. That eliminates then things you can improve, like strength. Speed to a degree is improvable as well. Vision is one of the things that sets great RBs apart, and what is vision, it recognition and response - completely brain driven.Ryan Grant simply isn't as talented as ADP because his brain is not as responsive as ADPs when it comes to playing football.Yes, age, injury, etc. limit the ability to display the talent, but it doesn't eliminate the talent from existing. Heck, players even say "My body just doesn't respond like it used to."You don't lose talent, you lose ability. That's why when people lose their legs, we say they are "disabled" we don't assume they don't know how to walk.Being a top level RB is a combination of talent and ability. Age, injuries, etc. sap ability, not talent. So if you want to argue talent, you need to exclude age and injuries.I would even argue their are RBs that have more physical ability that others, but aren't as talented.
 
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FUBAR said:
Eminence said:
To clear up any questions, this means their pure talent as of right now. Sure Edgerrin and Portis at one point were enormous talents, but it has dwindled with age.
Click to expand...
:thanks: Otherwise, we could include certain RBs whose injuries have prevented them from becoming elite performers. IMO, Chris Perry was among the most talented backs before his injuries deroded his talent. Right now, just their talent:ADCJ3McFaddenJ-StewRonnie Brown
Click to expand...
McFadden? really? I can't see how Bush isn't more talented and I'm not advocating for Bush to be top 5.
 
Banger said:
FUBAR said:
Eminence said:
To clear up any questions, this means their pure talent as of right now. Sure Edgerrin and Portis at one point were enormous talents, but it has dwindled with age.
Click to expand...
:moneybag: Otherwise, we could include certain RBs whose injuries have prevented them from becoming elite performers. IMO, Chris Perry was among the most talented backs before his injuries deroded his talent. Right now, just their talent:ADCJ3McFaddenJ-StewRonnie Brown
Click to expand...
McFadden? really? I can't see how Bush isn't more talented and I'm not advocating for Bush to be top 5.
Click to expand...
IMO, McFadden has a better all-around game than Bush. Assuming you mean Reggie. Or do you mean Michael?McFadden is one of the guys who didnt start out on a tear, but could become one of the best in the league. But then, maybe I've just watched too much SEC and not enough Raiders games?
 
FUBAR said:
Banger said:
FUBAR said:
Eminence said:
To clear up any questions, this means their pure talent as of right now. Sure Edgerrin and Portis at one point were enormous talents, but it has dwindled with age.
Click to expand...
:hophead: Otherwise, we could include certain RBs whose injuries have prevented them from becoming elite performers. IMO, Chris Perry was among the most talented backs before his injuries deroded his talent. Right now, just their talent:ADCJ3McFaddenJ-StewRonnie Brown
Click to expand...
McFadden? really? I can't see how Bush isn't more talented and I'm not advocating for Bush to be top 5.
Click to expand...
IMO, McFadden has a better all-around game than Bush. Assuming you mean Reggie. Or do you mean Michael?McFadden is one of the guys who didnt start out on a tear, but could become one of the best in the league. But then, maybe I've just watched too much SEC and not enough Raiders games?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I did mean Reggie.
 
If we are talking about just talent, and not age or injuries, then my top 5 would be:

1. L.T.

2. Adrian Peterson

3. Brian Westbrook

4. Willis McGahee

5. Cadillac Williams

 
Disregarding what injuries and age may have done to the players:

1. Gore

2. McGahee

3. Peterson

4. Tomlinson

5. Portis

 
AP

MJD

Turner

Ronnie B

Deangelo

LT/Westy/Portis = all due respect (but past their primes)

SJax/Gore/CJ3 = next in line

great thread

 
I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I never got the love for LT. Played his entire career in a crappy division against 3 of the worst defenses. He's was fast, I'll give him that.

:rolleyes:

 
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