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*** OFFICIAL Patriots Preseason RB Thread *** (1 Viewer)

David Yudkin

David Yudkin

Footballguy
There's already been a lot of talk about the Patriots and their messy backfield situation. I believe that the gameplan will be for Taylor, Morris, and Maroney to each get a series to start each game and beyond that they will go with a hot hand (if there is one). If there is no clear "better back" that day, I currently see situational breakdows as follows:

Maroney and Taylor: in mostly on 1st and 2nd downs only, little us in the passing game

Morris: short yardage and goal line carries, could be in on any down depending upon the distance, some receptions

Faulk: change of pace, passing plays, 3rd and long

BJGE: probably inactive if the other guys are healthy

Over the past three seasons, here are the fantasy scoring breakdowns in games where NE backs have touched the ball at least 10 times (meaning rushing attempts and receptions combined) in a 0 PPR scoring system, as well as the number of times each RB had 10 or more touches.

BJGE: 13.83 fantasy ppg (3 times in 9 games played)

Jordan: 13.53 fantasy ppg (4 times in 8 games played)

Dillon: 12.08 fantasy ppg (14 times in 16 games played)

Maroney: 10.68 fantasy ppg (23 times in 30 games played)

Faulk: 10.65 fantasy ppg (12 times in 46 games played)

Eckel: 10.60 fantasy ppg (1 time in 12 games played)

Morris: 10.52 fantasy ppg (18 times in 19 games played)

Evans: 6.60 fantasy ppg (1 time in 48 games played)

 
David Yudkin said:
It's still very early, but Maroney has practiced as a kick returner and special teamer in OTAs so far.
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This tells you all you need to know about Maroney. He will never be a #1 RB in this league IMO.I'm avoiding NE RB's this year. The situation has caused too many headaches the last few seasons.
 
Blackjacks said:
David Yudkin said:
It's still very early, but Maroney has practiced as a kick returner and special teamer in OTAs so far.
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If you had to pick one today David, which New England rb would you want on your roster and expect to for them to be the leading scorer?I'd go Fred Taylor
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Sammy Morris, but that's not a resounding vote of confidence total production wise. Morris has probably been the most productive fantasy scorer since he came to NE, but only at like 10 fantasy ppg. NE will rotate backs in the first half of games and ride the hot hand in the second half of games. But it's anyone's guess who that will be each week, who can stay healthy, and when the Pats decide to pass almost exclusive against select opponents. Maoney clearly is the youngest guy, but as enumerated many times has not been a consistent threat for whatever reasons. There was even talk by Felger this week that if he doesn't show anything in camp he might get outright cut. While I think that is unlikely, it doesn't sound like Maroney is high on the food chain right now (but certainly that's subject to change).I see Maroney and Taylor in direct competition with each other with Faulk still in on passing downs and Morris in on short yardage situations. As I said, I think this year will be more of a week by week experiement if everyone is healthy, but as we've seen having everyone healthy as been a constant struggle for NE.
 
I think it's pretty funny we needed a thread for this...but I do think we actually needed a thread for this. Thank you Yudkin!

This is sounding like the Broncos backfields of yesteryear...grab whichever guy(s) you can get cheapest and wait for their turn in the rotation.

 
David Yudkin said:
It's still very early, but Maroney has practiced as a kick returner and special teamer in OTAs so far.
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Ooof. I had no plans to draft this guy but for those of us who play in return yardage leagues Maroney may suddenly have a bit of value. Do you think he has a legitimate shot to do kick returns in the regular season?
 
David Yudkin said:
Blackjacks said:
David Yudkin said:
It's still very early, but Maroney has practiced as a kick returner and special teamer in OTAs so far.
Click to expand...
If you had to pick one today David, which New England rb would you want on your roster and expect to for them to be the leading scorer?I'd go Fred Taylor
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Sammy Morris, but that's not a resounding vote of confidence total production wise. Morris has probably been the most productive fantasy scorer since he came to NE, but only at like 10 fantasy ppg. NE will rotate backs in the first half of games and ride the hot hand in the second half of games. But it's anyone's guess who that will be each week, who can stay healthy, and when the Pats decide to pass almost exclusive against select opponents. Maoney clearly is the youngest guy, but as enumerated many times has not been a consistent threat for whatever reasons. There was even talk by Felger this week that if he doesn't show anything in camp he might get outright cut. While I think that is unlikely, it doesn't sound like Maroney is high on the food chain right now (but certainly that's subject to change).I see Maroney and Taylor in direct competition with each other with Faulk still in on passing downs and Morris in on short yardage situations. As I said, I think this year will be more of a week by week experiement if everyone is healthy, but as we've seen having everyone healthy as been a constant struggle for NE.
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Perhaps I'm reading this the wrong way but it seems like you're saying Morris will be the safest and most consistent pick. Who do you think has the biggest 'upside'? Do you feel there is a real chance any of these guys could be a top 10 back without relying on injuries to the competition?
 
David Yudkin said:
Blackjacks said:
David Yudkin said:
It's still very early, but Maroney has practiced as a kick returner and special teamer in OTAs so far.
Click to expand...
If you had to pick one today David, which New England rb would you want on your roster and expect to for them to be the leading scorer?I'd go Fred Taylor
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Sammy Morris, but that's not a resounding vote of confidence total production wise. Morris has probably been the most productive fantasy scorer since he came to NE, but only at like 10 fantasy ppg. NE will rotate backs in the first half of games and ride the hot hand in the second half of games. But it's anyone's guess who that will be each week, who can stay healthy, and when the Pats decide to pass almost exclusive against select opponents. Maoney clearly is the youngest guy, but as enumerated many times has not been a consistent threat for whatever reasons. There was even talk by Felger this week that if he doesn't show anything in camp he might get outright cut. While I think that is unlikely, it doesn't sound like Maroney is high on the food chain right now (but certainly that's subject to change).I see Maroney and Taylor in direct competition with each other with Faulk still in on passing downs and Morris in on short yardage situations. As I said, I think this year will be more of a week by week experiement if everyone is healthy, but as we've seen having everyone healthy as been a constant struggle for NE.
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I completely agree with your thinking here David. I think if I was drafting today I would take Taylor, like I stated earlier. However, I also have this place in the back of my mind telling the safe bet is Morris.Thanks
 
None of the NE rb's will be top 10 this year,it'll be basically rbbc to keep everyone healthy. If I had to choose one I'd choose Fred Taylor but only in the later rounds of redraft. None of these guys should be considered a starter for your fantasy team and should only be used as a bye week fill-in or injury replacement.

 
For those wondering about Maroney this year, Mike Reiss had this to say today in a chat:

Q: Do you think Maroney is going make an impact this year or is that another draft bust ?

Mike Reiss: I really think it all comes to health. If healthy, I think his immediate impact comes on the KO returns.

 
David Yudkin said:
For those wondering about Maroney this year, Mike Reiss had this to say today in a chat:Q: Do you think Maroney is going make an impact this year or is that another draft bust ? Mike Reiss: I really think it all comes to health. If healthy, I think his immediate impact comes on the KO returns.
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This is not good news for Maroney's fantasy outlook. Taylor will be the man here IMO as long as he stays healthy.
 
Quick question - just came to mind - with talk out of NE saying Maroney on KR - and specifically identifying that role for Maroney.....Anyone think this is a rouse? I just haven't felt like they present the more transparent view for what they plan on doing....

 
Penguins said:
Quick question - just came to mind - with talk out of NE saying Maroney on KR - and specifically identifying that role for Maroney.....Anyone think this is a rouse? I just haven't felt like they present the more transparent view for what they plan on doing....
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I don't think there has been "talk out of NE," unless you're referring to the NE media and fans. Maroney has been taking KRs, yes - as have a half-dozen or so other guys.FWIW, he also returned kicks during his rookie season (taking about half the KRs for the Pats that season), when he shared the RB load with Corey Dillon. It may warrant mentioning that Kevin Faulk also took about 1/3 of them that year. Maroney, Slater, Edelman, Butler, Wheatley, and Nunn have all been fielding KRs thus far this offseason.
 
David Yudkin said:
For those wondering about Maroney this year, Mike Reiss had this to say today in a chat:Q: Do you think Maroney is going make an impact this year or is that another draft bust ? Mike Reiss: I really think it all comes to health. If healthy, I think his immediate impact comes on the KO returns.
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I don't really think this changes much in considering Maroney, the key to getting 150-200 carries on NE will be A. Making the team, B. Staying healthy. Fred Taylor hasn't played 16 games in a season sine 2003 and is 33 years old and Sammy Morris has missed even more games over that span and is 32. If you look at Kevin Faulk's career you can see why they don't give him a bunch of carries despite his seeming production. The two years in his career he got over 100 rushing attempts he had a 3.5 and a 3.6 y/c average.As long as Maroney makes the team he should be expected to get a shot at toting the rock for a few games.
 
baconisgood said:
David Yudkin said:
For those wondering about Maroney this year, Mike Reiss had this to say today in a chat:Q: Do you think Maroney is going make an impact this year or is that another draft bust ? Mike Reiss: I really think it all comes to health. If healthy, I think his immediate impact comes on the KO returns.
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I don't really think this changes much in considering Maroney, the key to getting 150-200 carries on NE will be A. Making the team, B. Staying healthy. Fred Taylor hasn't played 16 games in a season sine 2003 and is 33 years old and Sammy Morris has missed even more games over that span and is 32. If you look at Kevin Faulk's career you can see why they don't give him a bunch of carries despite his seeming production. The two years in his career he got over 100 rushing attempts he had a 3.5 and a 3.6 y/c average.As long as Maroney makes the team he should be expected to get a shot at toting the rock for a few games.
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I really don't see Maroney getting a shot at a big workload unless a lot of things happen concurrently in terms of other RBs, the passing game, his status with the coaching staff, the defense, the game plan, etc.
 
I have no idea where the love for Fred Taylor is coming from. He was one of the three or four best backs of the last decade IMO, but he'll be 33 years and 7 months old to start the season and looked like he was toast at the end of last year.

If he's healthy, Maroney almost has to get 200+ carries.

 
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wdcrob said:
I have no idea where the love for Fred Taylor is coming from. He was one of the three or four best backs of the last decade IMO, but he'll be 33 years and 7 months old to start the season and looked like he was toast at the end of last year.If he's healthy, Maroney almost has to get 200+ carries.
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Maroney hasn't had a season with 200 carries yet and has not been close to healthy. He also now is essentially 4th on the depth chart. In minicamp he worked mostly on special teams. If he's going to get 200 carries this year, a lot will have to change compared to the current situation.
 
David Yudkin said:
wdcrob said:
I have no idea where the love for Fred Taylor is coming from. He was one of the three or four best backs of the last decade IMO, but he'll be 33 years and 7 months old to start the season and looked like he was toast at the end of last year.If he's healthy, Maroney almost has to get 200+ carries.
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Maroney hasn't had a season with 200 carries yet and has not been close to healthy. He also now is essentially 4th on the depth chart. In minicamp he worked mostly on special teams. If he's going to get 200 carries this year, a lot will have to change compared to the current situation.
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I hear you David. I just wonder if the other backs on the roster are so old (32, 33, 33) that the 24 year old Maroney ends up playing a bigger part by default. And I say that despite believing he's not really a 1st round talent or anything. 12-13 touches a game isn't exactly Earl Campbell territory either.
 
wdcrob said:
David Yudkin said:
wdcrob said:
I have no idea where the love for Fred Taylor is coming from. He was one of the three or four best backs of the last decade IMO, but he'll be 33 years and 7 months old to start the season and looked like he was toast at the end of last year.If he's healthy, Maroney almost has to get 200+ carries.
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Maroney hasn't had a season with 200 carries yet and has not been close to healthy. He also now is essentially 4th on the depth chart. In minicamp he worked mostly on special teams. If he's going to get 200 carries this year, a lot will have to change compared to the current situation.
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I hear you David. I just wonder if the other backs on the roster are so old (32, 33, 33) that the 24 year old Maroney ends up playing a bigger part by default. And I say that despite believing he's not really a 1st round talent or anything. 12-13 touches a game isn't exactly Earl Campbell territory either.
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From what I've been told, this is a textbook RBBC. I have been led to believe that there are some things that are defined roles (or close to it) in that Faulk will play on passing downs (which should be quite a bit), Morris will be used a lot inthe short yardage and goal line situations, Taylor should get the most carries (if healthy) for the general between the 20s type work. As I understand it, as things stand now Morris is the second option beyond Faulk in the passing game and behind Taylor in the general use situations with Maroney being not much more than depth at the moment. Certainly things can and will change, but that's the apparent road map heading forward.If there is any hope for LM, I'm hearing that in each given week, the staff will evaluate who has done the best in the first half and that guy will see more carries in the second half. So we may see a guy getting more carries one week and a different guy the next. Long story short, I see the Pats using all the RBs some how, some way, and at various points in the season and it will add up to no one having much fantasy value except out of desperation (injuries, bye weeks, flex, etc.)At this point, if none of them got 150 carries that would not surprise me.
 
So 2009 will be the usual nightmare fantasy scenario for New England RBs. I'm avoiding all for anything other than an RB4.

 
David Yudkin said:
a lot will have to change compared to the current situation.
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What are the odds a RBBC formed by two 33 year olds and a 32 year old are going to hold on all season? Curtis Martin played 12 games at 32 and retired, Walter Payton played 12 at 33 and retired, Bettis played 12 at 33 and retired, Dickerson played 4 at 33 and retired, Tony Dorset played 13 at 32 and 12 at 33 and 16 at 34, Marshall Faulk played a bit role at 32 and retired, Thurman Thomas played 5 games at 33. Emmit Smith, Marcus Allen and Franco Harris played 16 games at 33. Your getting into pretty fluky territory at these ages if you play all 16 games- and its not like Morris and Taylor have the label of "durable" attached to them the way that a lot of these players did. A list of all time great and all time durable running backs and 3 of them play 16 games and no one else breaks 12. Odds are against a long and productive season for Taylor and Morris.
 
David Yudkin said:
baconisgood said:
Odds are against a long and productive season for Taylor and Morris.
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And the odds of a long and productive season from Maroney are what, even money?
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There seems to be a much better chance in my view of a 24 year old who had trouble staying healthy becoming a healthy and productive back. Fred Taylor, Jamal Lewis, Garrison Hearst, Julius Jones and Thomas Jones and to a lesser extent Tyrone Wheatly come to mind.
 
Michael Fox said:
All of this just sums up that Maroney's only hope is to get away from BB as soon as possible. BB must truly have irrational hate for Maroney.
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Maroney has been a disappointment since the beginning of his sophomore season. He's been fragile and he hasn't run hard on a consistent basis when he has played. Given his performance and injury history, I have a hard time seeing why anyone would think it is "irrational" to head into 2009 not banking on Maroney to carry the load at RB.
 
baconisgood said:
David Yudkin said:
baconisgood said:
Odds are against a long and productive season for Taylor and Morris.
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And the odds of a long and productive season from Maroney are what, even money?
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There seems to be a much better chance in my view of a 24 year old who had trouble staying healthy becoming a healthy and productive back. Fred Taylor, Jamal Lewis, Garrison Hearst, Julius Jones and Thomas Jones and to a lesser extent Tyrone Wheatly come to mind.
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Anyway- my point was not that Maroney WILL be the guy, it was that him working with the return team doesn't affect my analysis of him much if at all. If hes healthy he's very likely to get a shot due to the age and injury history of the 3 backs ahead of him. Working with the return team doesn't make him much more injury prone imo.
 
Adebisi said:
Michael Fox said:
All of this just sums up that Maroney's only hope is to get away from BB as soon as possible. BB must truly have irrational hate for Maroney.
Click to expand...
Maroney has been a disappointment since the beginning of his sophomore season. He's been fragile and he hasn't run hard on a consistent basis when he has played. Given his performance and injury history, I have a hard time seeing why anyone would think it is "irrational" to head into 2009 not banking on Maroney to carry the load at RB.
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Please point to where I wrote the words you just used.
 
Michael Fox said:
Adebisi said:
Michael Fox said:
All of this just sums up that Maroney's only hope is to get away from BB as soon as possible. BB must truly have irrational hate for Maroney.
Click to expand...
Maroney has been a disappointment since the beginning of his sophomore season. He's been fragile and he hasn't run hard on a consistent basis when he has played. Given his performance and injury history, I have a hard time seeing why anyone would think it is "irrational" to head into 2009 not banking on Maroney to carry the load at RB.
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Please point to where I wrote the words you just used.
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You said that BB must have an "irrational hate for Maroney." I assumed (perhaps incorrectly, I suppose) that you were basing this misguided opinion on the fact that Belichick isn't ready to name him his workhorse RB.If I am mistaken, please clarify why BB "must truly have irrational hate for Maroney."TIA.
 
Adebisi said:
Michael Fox said:
Adebisi said:
Michael Fox said:
All of this just sums up that Maroney's only hope is to get away from BB as soon as possible. BB must truly have irrational hate for Maroney.
Click to expand...
Maroney has been a disappointment since the beginning of his sophomore season. He's been fragile and he hasn't run hard on a consistent basis when he has played. Given his performance and injury history, I have a hard time seeing why anyone would think it is "irrational" to head into 2009 not banking on Maroney to carry the load at RB.
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Please point to where I wrote the words you just used.
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You said that BB must have an "irrational hate for Maroney." I assumed (perhaps incorrectly, I suppose) that you were basing this misguided opinion on the fact that Belichick isn't ready to name him his workhorse RB.If I am mistaken, please clarify why BB "must truly have irrational hate for Maroney."

TIA.
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Incorrect. I can absolutely see why BB wants Maroney to prove that he can be relied upon and isn't going to hand him the starting job. Here's my beef with how the Pats have handled Maroney:

1) it appears that BB has been trying to change Maroney's running style since 2006, basically wanting him to be a RB who just runs forward 4 yards straight ahead. That's never been Maroney's style, so if it is what BB wanted, I don't know why the Pats drafted him

2) BB evidently thinks Maroney is "soft". The guy tried to play last season with a broken shoulder. So why is BB busting his balls over "toughness"?

3) Now that the guy is finally healthy again, BB wants him returning kicks. If you're going to **** the guy around, just cut him or something.

There is obviously something else going on behind the scenes I guess. You don't draft a guy in the 1st round, and then 1 1/2 seasons later basically decide he's not worth a ####. My guess is that Maroney doesn't fit whatever style BB considers necessary to succeed.....he's an individualist.....probably a bit arrogant....must have annoyed BB somehow (in addition to being nicked up with a bunch of injuries).

 
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Michael Fox said:
Adebisi said:
Michael Fox said:
Adebisi said:
Michael Fox said:
All of this just sums up that Maroney's only hope is to get away from BB as soon as possible. BB must truly have irrational hate for Maroney.
Click to expand...
Maroney has been a disappointment since the beginning of his sophomore season. He's been fragile and he hasn't run hard on a consistent basis when he has played. Given his performance and injury history, I have a hard time seeing why anyone would think it is "irrational" to head into 2009 not banking on Maroney to carry the load at RB.
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Please point to where I wrote the words you just used.
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You said that BB must have an "irrational hate for Maroney." I assumed (perhaps incorrectly, I suppose) that you were basing this misguided opinion on the fact that Belichick isn't ready to name him his workhorse RB.If I am mistaken, please clarify why BB "must truly have irrational hate for Maroney."

TIA.
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Incorrect. I can absolutely see why BB wants Maroney to prove that he can be relied upon and isn't going to hand him the starting job. Here's my beef with how the Pats have handled Maroney:

1) it appears that BB has been trying to change Maroney's running style since 2006, basically wanting him to be a RB who just runs forward 4 yards straight ahead. That's never been Maroney's style, so if it is what BB wanted, I don't know why the Pats drafted him

2) BB evidently thinks Maroney is "soft". The guy tried to play last season with a broken shoulder. So why is BB busting his balls over "toughness"?

3) Now that the guy is finally healthy again, BB wants him returning kicks. If you're going to **** the guy around, just cut him or something.

There is obviously something else going on behind the scenes I guess. You don't draft a guy in the 1st round, and then 1 1/2 seasons later basically decide he's not worth a ####. My guess is that Maroney doesn't fit whatever style BB considers necessary to succeed.....he's an individualist.....probably a bit arrogant....must have annoyed BB somehow (in addition to being nicked up with a bunch of injuries).
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1) If that is true, do you feel that Maroney would be the first player that has been asked to change upon being drafted by the Patriots - or any other NFL team, for that matter?2) When did BB ever "bust his balls?" When did BB ever question his toughness at all, for that matter? What is it that leads you to believe that BB thinks Maroney is soft? Please unpack this a bit for me.

3) Returning kicks is dicking a guy around? :goodposting: Are you being serious here? The one season Maroney returned kicks, he finished 2nd in the NFL in kick return average. In the two seasons since that happened, Ellis Hobbs was New England's primary kick returner. Hobbs is gone now. You think BB is dicking Maroney around by having him take some kick returns this offseason (never mind the fact that Maroney is only one of about a half-dozen players who has been doing so)?

As for your line about "You don't draft a guy in the 1st round, and then 1 1/2 seasons later basically decide he's not worth a ####," who says he's not worth a ####? Where are you getting this from?

Do you think maybe you should reconsider your entire outlook here?

 
Adebisi said:
1) If that is true, do you feel that Maroney would be the first player that has been asked to change upon being drafted by the Patriots - or any other NFL team, for that matter?2) When did BB ever "bust his balls?" When did BB ever question his toughness at all, for that matter? What is it that leads you to believe that BB thinks Maroney is soft? Please unpack this a bit for me.3) Returning kicks is dicking a guy around? :lmao: Are you being serious here? The one season Maroney returned kicks, he finished 2nd in the NFL in kick return average. In the two seasons since that happened, Ellis Hobbs was New England's primary kick returner. Hobbs is gone now. You think BB is dicking Maroney around by having him take some kick returns this offseason (never mind the fact that Maroney is only one of about a half-dozen players who has been doing so)?As for your line about "You don't draft a guy in the 1st round, and then 1 1/2 seasons later basically decide he's not worth a ####," who says he's not worth a ####? Where are you getting this from?Do you think maybe you should reconsider your entire outlook here?
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1) of course not. but usually guys like that get released by their original team eventually. 2) I'm probably reading between the lines, but it's obvious that BB has expressed displeasure with Maroney for being "soft". There were rampant rumors last year that the Pats were disappointed that he wasn't running tougher....and then we found out later that he had a broken shoulder & tried to play through it. So I don't think this comment was out of left field.3) See my post above. If they want him to run the ball AND return kicks, that's cool. If they just want to use him as a kick returner.....something Yudkin has certainly implied at times....well, if I was Maroney I'd feel like BB was dicked me around. Hopefully that clarifies the comment. :goodposting: You tell me if I should reconsider my entire outlook. That seems like an extreme statement, but you are certainly entitled to that opinion.
 
Michael Fox said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Returning kicks = 'dicking him around'?

:lmao: :lmao:

Unbelievable.

This is why I'm lucky to be a Pats fan.
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He was a 1st rd pick for a reason. If they want him solely to return kicks, then yes, I think that is dicking him around. Just cut the guy and get it over with at that point.
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:lmao: :lmao: You have dinner with Belichick last night?

First of all, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Secondly, the team doesn't revolve around Maroney.

 
*I totally agree that the Pats have been using Maroney incorrectly. They want him to be like Dillon and that's not a good fit for his skill set. He does not run in-between the tackles well and they seem intent on using him that way. He dances far too much, doesn't make quick decisions and goes down far too easy. He's much better in open space but for whatever reason the Pats don't like to use him that way and they also don't seem to have any interest in incorporating him into the passing game.

*The above being said Maroney has been a big dissapointment for the Pats. I don't think there was a Patriot fan who did not think he was going to be a stud after his rookie year. He showed a lot of promise that year and I for one thought he was going to be a real weapon for quite a few years. Yet, outside of a stretch at the end of 2007-2008 he has not looked good the last two years. He's still running like a college RB, is always dinged up and while the specifics aren't known in the tight-lipped Patriot world there's little doubt that BB doesn't have much faith in him (there have been loud whispers that some teammates feel that way as well). My impression is that while he's not a bad guy he's not totally committed to being the best he can be and isn't the most mature kid out there. Again, I don't think he's trouble I just don't think the lightbulb has totally gone on.

*As far as this year, Maroney is up against the wall. At his age he's still intriguing (and with his contract definetly worth keeping at this point) but he has his work cut out for him as far as playing time is concerned. BB loves Faulk and Morris and if neither has lost a step they will be big factors in this offense. Fred Taylor is there and while he won't do what Dillon did in his first year with the Pats he definetly has the inside track on being their primary ballcarrier (although this will most certainly be a RBBC). That basically means Maroney will have to shine when he gets his opportunities. If the lightbulb finally goes on and he figures it out (and stays healthy) he could earn a solid role in this offense. Yet, in all honesty, I'll really have to see it to believe it. Right now I'm not sold on Maroney. If he continues performing the way he has the majority of the past two years he will end up with limited touches and his best bet to get on the field (outside of special teams) will be injuries (or age should it be a factor) to Taylor, Morris and Faulk.

 
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Boston said:
*I totally agree that the Pats have been using Maroney incorrectly. They want him to be like Dillon and that's not a good fit for his skill set. He does not run in-between the tackles well and they seem intent on using him that way. He dances far too much, doesn't make quick decisions and goes down far too easy. He's much better in open space but for whatever reason the Pats don't like to use him that way and they also don't seem to have any interest in incorporating him into the passing game.*The above being said Maroney has been a big dissapointment for the Pats. I don't think there was a Patriot fan who did not think he was going to be a stud after his rookie year. He showed a lot of promise that year and I for one thought he was going to be a real weapon for quite a few years. Yet, outside of a stretch at the end of 2007-2008 he has not looked good the last two years. He's still running like a college RB, is always dinged up and while the specifics aren't known in the tight-lipped Patriot world there's little doubt that BB doesn't have much faith in him (there have been loud whispers that some teammates feel that way as well). My impression is that while he's not a bad guy he's not totally committed to being the best he can be and isn't the most mature kid out there. Again, I don't think he's trouble I just don't think the lightbulb has totally gone on.*As far as this year, Maroney is up against the wall. At his age he's still intriguing (and with his contract definetly worth keeping at this point) but he has his work cut out for him as far as playing time is concerned. BB loves Faulk and Morris and if neither has lost a step they will be big factors in this offense. Fred Taylor is there and while he won't do what Dillon did in his first year with the Pats he definetly has the inside track on being their primary ballcarrier (although this will most certainly be a RBBC). That basically means Maroney will have to shine when he gets his opportunities. If the lightbulb finally goes on and he figures it out (and stays healthy) he could earn a solid role in this offense. Yet, in all honesty, I'll really have to see it to believe it. Right now I'm not sold on Maroney. If he continues performing the way he has the majority of the past two years he will end up with limited touches and his best bet to get on the fiel (outside of special teams) will be injuries (or age should it be a factor) to Taylor, Morris and Faulk.
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Makes sense Boston.
 
For a guy that carried a 4.4 YPC over 360 carries in 2006 and 2007, Maroney sure gets talked about like he's garbage on these boards.

Yeah, he's been hurt a lot, but to say he can't run the ball is BS. People have incredibly short memories. I really hope he stays healthy and get a chance to show what he can do this year, because he's shown he's capable of this (from the last games of 2007, including playoffs):

15 NYJ 26-104-1

16 MIA 14-156-1

17 NYG 19-46-2

19 JAX 22-122-1 (Playoff game)

20 SDC 25-122-1 (AFC Championship)

21 NYG 14-36-1

 
Michael Fox said:
Adebisi said:
1) If that is true, do you feel that Maroney would be the first player that has been asked to change upon being drafted by the Patriots - or any other NFL team, for that matter?

2) When did BB ever "bust his balls?" When did BB ever question his toughness at all, for that matter? What is it that leads you to believe that BB thinks Maroney is soft? Please unpack this a bit for me.

3) Returning kicks is dicking a guy around? :lmao: Are you being serious here? The one season Maroney returned kicks, he finished 2nd in the NFL in kick return average. In the two seasons since that happened, Ellis Hobbs was New England's primary kick returner. Hobbs is gone now. You think BB is dicking Maroney around by having him take some kick returns this offseason (never mind the fact that Maroney is only one of about a half-dozen players who has been doing so)?

As for your line about "You don't draft a guy in the 1st round, and then 1 1/2 seasons later basically decide he's not worth a ####," who says he's not worth a ####? Where are you getting this from?

Do you think maybe you should reconsider your entire outlook here?
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1) of course not. but usually guys like that get released by their original team eventually. 2) I'm probably reading between the lines, but it's obvious that BB has expressed displeasure with Maroney for being "soft". There were rampant rumors last year that the Pats were disappointed that he wasn't running tougher....and then we found out later that he had a broken shoulder & tried to play through it. So I don't think this comment was out of left field.

3) See my post above. If they want him to run the ball AND return kicks, that's cool. If they just want to use him as a kick returner.....something Yudkin has certainly implied at times....well, if I was Maroney I'd feel like BB was dicked me around. Hopefully that clarifies the comment.

:wall: You tell me if I should reconsider my entire outlook. That seems like an extreme statement, but you are certainly entitled to that opinion.
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Maroney was drafted in the 1st round to be the workhorse RB for the Patriots' offense. I don't think anyone doubts that. He has thus far not become that workhorse RB that they had hoped he would be. We can sit here and argue why that is the case - injuries, performance, the coaching staff's lack of faith in him, other RBs outperforming him, some combination of these factors, or something else entirely - but in the end, for whatever reason, it just hasn't happened.However, all that being said, his draft status is irrelevant at this point. Even if he's not the workhorse RB they were hoping for, he can still contribute and help the team, whether that might be as part of a RBBC, returning kicks, or a combination of the two. His contract is reasonable. This being the case, there is no reason for the Patriots to release him. Daniel Graham is an example of a player who was drafted in the 1st round by New England, never fulfilled the expectations the Patriots had for him, but still managed to play a very useful role in the New England offense.

As for the criticism Maroney has taken for not running harder, that started in 2007, not in 2008. Even taking Maroney's preferred running style into consideration, it is fairly plain to see that he just does not run as hard as he is capable of running on a consistent basis. It is clear to see that sometimes the full effort is there, and other times it is not, and that was plain to see prior to his injury in 2008.

I further disagree that Yudkin has, at any time, implied that the Pats were going to use him only as a kick returner. From what I've read of DY's posts, he's been quite clear that the Patriots are going to be using a RBBC, and that Maroney would be a part of that committee. He has stated that Morris and/or Taylor may occassionally get the bulk of the carries, but that it would be due to game planning or just a matter of riding the hot hand - nothing really to do with Maroney's role as a/the potential kick returner.

 
Couch Potato said:
For a guy that carried a 4.4 YPC over 360 carries in 2006 and 2007, Maroney sure gets talked about like he's garbage on these boards.

Yeah, he's been hurt a lot, but to say he can't run the ball is BS. People have incredibly short memories. I really hope he stays healthy and get a chance to show what he can do this year, because he's shown he's capable of this (from the last games of 2007, including playoffs):

15 NYJ 26-104-1

16 MIA 14-156-1

17 NYG 19-46-2

19 JAX 22-122-1 (Playoff game)

20 SDC 25-122-1 (AFC Championship)

21 NYG 14-36-1
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We all know what he's capable of; it's a matter of him actually delivering on a consistent basis.Let's look at the 6 games prior to the 6 that you showed us:

9 WAS 14-75-0

10 IND 15-59-0

11 BUF 6-19-1

12 PHI 10-31-1

13 BAL 13-44-0

14 PIT 6-18-0

Keep in mind that both sets of games that we're discussing here came in 2007, when defenses were indisputably far more concerned with New England's passing game than their running game.

It's also worth mentioning that Sammy Morris has averaged 4.6 a carry since he got here. And those numbers don't lie: for anyone who has watched the Patriots over the past few years, it would be difficult to argue that Maroney has looked better than Morris... and Morris is widely considered a journeyman RB, whereas Maroney is a former 1st round pick.

Hopefully that clarifies why football fans (Pats fans in particular) are not particularly excited about Maroney... although obviously, as a Patriots fan myself, I am with you in hoping that Maroney busts out and makes a real statement this season. :rolleyes:

 
A lot of good thoughts in here. I think Maroney is going to end up being one of those running backs like Garrison Hearst and Thomas Jones that go on to productive NFL careers once leaving the team that originally drafted them.

For 2009 purposes, I just have a feeling that either Fred Taylor or Maroney will end up getting the majority of the carries in New England and end up being an incredible value where they end up being drafted.

 
Adebisi said:
Let's look at the 6 games prior to the 6 that you showed us:

9 WAS 14-75-0

10 IND 15-59-0

11 BUF 6-19-1

12 PHI 10-31-1

13 BAL 13-44-0

14 PIT 6-18-0

Keep in mind that both sets of games that we're discussing here came in 2007, when defenses were indisputably far more concerned with New England's passing game than their running game.
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This is mostly excuse making, but there's always so much Maroney and pats discussion that I wanted to give the guy a fair shake.I think he entered that season right off some surgery to correct a shoulder subluxation, and got injured early in the season.

Can't remember what it was --- you might recall better than I do, maybe rib muscle, or something.

wk 7 -- he comes back with only 6 carries -- not sure he's really healthy at this point.

wk 8 -- this was the Wash game where he logged 14 carries --- still probably not 100% and they won 52-7 while he logged 5.4 ypc.

can't knock him on this week.

wk 9 -- 15/59 vs Indy wasn't great, but not horrible --- think the Pats started throwing a lot in the second half to catch up.

wk 11 -- early in the Buf game he came out with a mysterious foot injury, and since Buf was getting blown out he never went back in.

wk 12 -- didn't do much in here, but I don't think they ran the ball once in the first half and did pretty well with that scheme.

After the game Belichick said that Philly was sacrificing coverage to throw a lot of bodies at the line, so he'd rather throw into weak coverage than run into a crowd --- could've been rationalization.

You can reference the Minny game in '06 for somewhat similar game scheming --- after that game everybody declared him a genius rather than all that 'omg running up the scorez!!!' wailing.

wks 13 + 14 were Balt and Pitt, so I'm not busting anybody's balls for not putting up big numbers on the ground against those teams.

The next week he logged 26 carries for 100+ yards.

It's a fine line between excuse and circumstance.

 
Adebisi said:
I further disagree that Yudkin has, at any time, implied that the Pats were going to use him only as a kick returner. From what I've read of DY's posts, he's been quite clear that the Patriots are going to be using a RBBC, and that Maroney would be a part of that committee. He has stated that Morris and/or Taylor may occassionally get the bulk of the carries, but that it would be due to game planning or just a matter of riding the hot hand - nothing really to do with Maroney's role as a/the potential kick returner.
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David Yudkin said:
He also now is essentially 4th on the depth chart. In minicamp he worked mostly on special teams. If he's going to get 200 carries this year, a lot will have to change compared to the current situation.
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This certainly implies that he will get most of his work as a kick returner. Perhaps it's not explicitly stated by DY and I'm reading too much into the comment, but.....
 
Michael Fox said:
Adebisi said:
I further disagree that Yudkin has, at any time, implied that the Pats were going to use him only as a kick returner. From what I've read of DY's posts, he's been quite clear that the Patriots are going to be using a RBBC, and that Maroney would be a part of that committee. He has stated that Morris and/or Taylor may occassionally get the bulk of the carries, but that it would be due to game planning or just a matter of riding the hot hand - nothing really to do with Maroney's role as a/the potential kick returner.
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David Yudkin said:
He also now is essentially 4th on the depth chart. In minicamp he worked mostly on special teams. If he's going to get 200 carries this year, a lot will have to change compared to the current situation.
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This certainly implies that he will get most of his work as a kick returner. Perhaps it's not explicitly stated by DY and I'm reading too much into the comment, but.....
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I doubt he will never see the ball, but so far it does not appear that they've been making a concerted effort to get him practicing with the offense. It's a bit hard to tell, as they didn't really run mini camp like first team offense/second team offense like they do in training camp. We should learn more then.Att this point, I think the coaching staff probably feels a bit disappointed that things didn't work out differently. I liken him to Ben Watson. Big hopes and aspirations, some flashes of greatness, but overall not quite what they were wishing for from a first round pick.I've posted many times that the best thing for Maroney would be a change of scenery. For whatever reason, he doesn't fit the mold of what the Pats are looking for in a RB. They generally prefer move the pile, North and South runners. Maroney has been reluctant to adapt to that style, and the team has been reluctant to change their play calling to accomodate his playing style.As for people that poiny to the month or so where he did well at the end of 2007, there are countles backs that overall did not post great numbers but when on a tear where they looked great. In Maroney's case, there are now more backs and more competition than ever before, and I do think that if Taylor, Morris, Faulk, and even BJGE are all healthy that Maroney's workload will be pretty limited.'Maybe Maroney can stay healthy, get more aggressive, get in better favor with the staff, and earn a more significant role in the offense. But the other player I think he reminds me of is Joseph Addai. Addai was supposed to be the savior and heir apparent in IND, yet even they have had to go look for other options. Certainly Addai has done more than Maroney has, yet he too looks to be in a job share situation now.On a different note, I do find it interesting that now more than ever RBs not drafted in the first round have become viable options for NFL teams . . .Matt Forte 2.13 6th back takenRay Rice 2.24 7thKevin Smith 3.01 8thSteve Slaton 3.26 11thLe'Ron McLain 4.38 13thLenDale White 2.13 5thMJD 2.28 6thLeon Washington 4.20 9thFrank Gore 3.01 6thMarion Barber 4.08 10thBradon Jacons 4.09 11thDarren Sproles 4.29 15thMichael Turner 5.22 9thDerrick Ward 7.34 17th
 
David, I havent seen an update on this topic in a bit...what info is leaking from the Death Star these days....Maroney to get most of the carries?

 
The only news is that Morris has been in and out of practice with the dreaded "undisclosed injury." (I have no clue what it is.) I think the plan remains similar to what I have outlined before, although there is a chance that Morris' injury could end up getting him cut as very soon the Pats will have more players they want to keep than roster spots.

BJGE has also looked solid and is deserving of a roster spot, so he could potentially take Morris' spot if they decide to load up at TE or LB. BJGE cannot go back on the practice squad, so they need to keep him or cut him. It could come down to Morris or BJGE. Morris would have a stronger chance of sticking IMO than BJGE.

Clearly this suxor for fantasy purposes, as I have been taking Morris as uber late RB depth draft wise and his value would be pretty much nothing if he gets get. Hopefully Morris will suit up and play in this week's game and the picture will get clearer.

I'm also hearing that Maroney getting a lot of looks in the preseason is exactly that. They want to see how healthy he is and if he can run with authority. I still don't think he will see a ton of carries in the regular season, but as we all know the Pats RB corps is old and frequently injured so Maroney could pick up extra work when the other guys can't go.

 
David Yudkin said:
I'm also hearing that Maroney getting a lot of looks in the preseason is exactly that. They want to see how healthy he is and if he can run with authority. I still don't think he will see a ton of carries in the regular season, but as we all know the Pats RB corps is old and frequently injured so Maroney could pick up extra work when the other guys can't go.
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I still think when push comes to shove, the guy under 30 is going to be the most valuable on the team. I really don't get Fred Taylor's ADP being higher than Maroney's.
 
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