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Vince Young wants out of Tennessee? (1 Viewer)

F

ffguru56

Footballguy
Here's the snippet I saw on rotoworld.com:

Vince Young told WMAR-TV in Baltimore Monday that he wants a chance to play, or out of Tennessee.

Young lost his starting job to Kerry Collins last year when he struggled horribly in new coordinator Mike Heimerdinger's offense, then sprained his MCL in Week 1. "If them guys don’t want me to be in there, it’s time for me to make a career change," he said. "I’m ready to play ball. If they’re not ready for me to play ball, then somebody is." The Titans say V.Y. will compete in camp, but he'd have to outplay Collins by a huge margin to regain the position.

Audio of Vince claiming this through WMAR-TV

 
What do you make of this? Is this the mentality of a qb trying to step it up and take charge and lead the team or someone that is premature in gaining his respect back from what he did to put himself in this predicament?

 
:banned:

He couldn't get his head into the game last year...and now the team is supposed to hand the starting job back to him...or he wants out?

If I were the Titans, I'd SHOVE him out the door.

 
"I am just going to shut my mouth and play my role and if they need me then I will be available as a weapon. All I am doing this year is shutting up, just shutting up and working."

Vince Young - April 20; Nashville Tennesean :shrug:

 
Kerry's only playing one more, in all likelihood. Vince should just bide his time.

Titans only keep two QBs usually. He'll be battling Patrick Ramsey and if somehow he doesn't win I figure he's moved last minute.

Titans 3rd QB (if at all) is usually a PS guy. When Vince wasn't in his right frame of mind, then they went to 3 QBs.

 
Mikey16x said:
Vince Young and a bottle of anti-depressants for ?
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Outside of Texas it'd probably be "please take his contract"...I understand. When push comes to shove, I think a Texas team will offer a late pick for him. He'll put fans in the seats there.
 
Honestly, I think this is a good sign. I know it became tough for him mentally last year, but at least he is showing signs of life. If he basically went two seasons "just biding his time" after being a Pro Bowl QB at a very young age, you would be able to draw that he is just happy to collect his check, wait to be cut or have his contract run out and just fade away. I mentioned this when it happened, but I think it is quite ironic that he was supplanted by the last QB to put up the white flag. When Collins did this in Carolina, he was quickly shown the door (can be debated whether it was for better or worse), but if Carolina did not land Delhomme in FA (and I don't think anyone could say they thought he would be as good as he was, the franchise could still be searching for his replacement 12 years later.

Hopefully, for the Titans, he does not play hard ball and this is just a signal that he wants a crack at the starting job. In the article it alludes to the fact that Fisher wants him to beat out Collins for the job (which is correct, he should), but unless he showed a little life like he is doing now, I doubt he would get a fair crack at it this year.

ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?

 
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Bri said:
Mikey16x said:
Vince Young and a bottle of anti-depressants for ?
Click to expand...
Outside of Texas it'd probably be "please take his contract"...I understand. When push comes to shove, I think a Texas team will offer a late pick for him. He'll put fans in the seats there.
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Seems Schaub cannot stay healthy and with the departure of Rosenfels the Texans could be an ideal landing spot.. though that would mean VY would have to accept a QB2 role, which would go against what he believes he is at this point.Im sure if the Titans dont work out that some teams will give him a shot. We'll see. I've always liked VY but he has struggled with adversity & not being the main guy (ego). Hopefully his maturity level and mechanics aren't the end of him. I'm optimistic but not holding my breath. :popcorn:
 
Bring it Vince. We will see him this year. Not sure how Collins made it through last season without gimption. I guess he was bucking for another payday before he is done. Collins will get 'hurt'. Vince has a lot to prove and I feel like he will man up. Two new targets in Britt and Cook.

Bring it.

:coffee:

 
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
 
There's not a better team out there for VY and I can't imagine he would really ask out.

Collins can't have many more seasons left and I'm sure VY will get another shot really soon.

I've always been critical of VY, but I certainly wouldn't give up on him.

 
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
wow, he's not worth thatI was sure the Titans would at least switch to him again in 2010 even if just for him spending TC as the #1 QB before he gets beat out. The Titans are frugal borderline cheap. I really wonder if he even sees that money.What's superstars Brady and Manning make in one year? 14 mil too?
 
Bri said:
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
wow, he's not worth thatI was sure the Titans would at least switch to him again in 2010 even if just for him spending TC as the #1 QB before he gets beat out. The Titans are frugal borderline cheap. I really wonder if he even sees that money.What's superstars Brady and Manning make in one year? 14 mil too?
Click to expand...
Brady salary: 2009: $5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2010: $3.5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $14.626 million (2009), $13.126 million (2010).Manning salary: 2009: $14 million, 2010: $15.8 million, 2011-2012: $14 million (Voidable Years). Cap charges: $21.2 million (2009), $23 million (2010).
 
firstseason1988 said:
Bring it Vince. We will see him this year. Not sure how Collins made it through last season without gimption. I guess he was bucking for another payday before he is done. Collins will get 'hurt'. Vince has a lot to prove and I feel like he will man up. Two new targets in Britt and Cook.Bring it. :coffee:
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The Titans COULD be a real difficult team for Ds to deal with with all the speed and breakaway ability they added the last two years; if Vince-who can be a fine running QB- was managing things they'd sure be tough in theory. Fisher seems more apt to want sure things and a somewhat safe offense. I would not call their offensive system exciting.
 
Bri said:
firstseason1988 said:
Bring it Vince. We will see him this year. Not sure how Collins made it through last season without gimption. I guess he was bucking for another payday before he is done. Collins will get 'hurt'. Vince has a lot to prove and I feel like he will man up. Two new targets in Britt and Cook.Bring it. :lmao:
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The Titans COULD be a real difficult team for Ds to deal with with all the speed and breakaway ability they added the last two years; if Vince-who can be a fine running QB- was managing things they'd sure be tough in theory. Fisher seems more apt to want sure things and a somewhat safe offense. I would not call their offensive system exciting.
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I agree. He must be really bad at reading and reacting because his physical talent is top notch. It's too bad he can't make the throws he should be able to make because it would give their offense a dimensional few in the NFL have.
 
firstseason1988 said:
Bring it Vince. We will see him this year. Not sure how Collins made it through last season without gimption. I guess he was bucking for another payday before he is done. Collins will get 'hurt'. Vince has a lot to prove and I feel like he will man up. Two new targets in Britt and Cook.Bring it. :lmao:
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Oh, it's already been broughted.
 
ffguru56 said:
"I’m ready to play ball. If they’re not ready for me to play ball, then somebody is."-Vince Young
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:coffee: That makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes: Considering the approaching cap charges, I suppose the time to move him would be now. Problem is, I can't imagine the Titans getting anything close to what they'd hope to get for Young right now. His (perceived) value has never been lower. In addition, unless there is a dramatic turnaround displayed at some point this season, which I highly doubt, it's not hard to realize that he'll be released at some point next offseason. Why would anybody want to put anything on the table for him now?If Young's struggles haven't already been on display enough, I'm sure any team with even a smidgen of interest would be placing a phone call to Norm Chow. I don't see Chow giving Young any kind of ringing endorsement either. At this point in time, Young is stuck with the Titans, and the Titans are stuck with him.
 
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So what exactly is the market for a hamburger-for-brains QB with depression and a horrendous throwing motion?

 
Given Collins' vintage and the apparent lack of confidence in VY, isn't their future at QB something they need to address sooner rather than later? If they don't think VY can come back to do the job, would this have been a draft priority?

 
It sounds like many around here have thrown in the towel on this guy and I think that's a mistake.

During the VY hysteria of his rookie season, I got in many arguments with people that were convinced of VY's inevitable greatness. Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

Sure, VY turned into a headcase last season. He can get it turned around. The best pitcher in baseball right now is not too far removed from a battle with depression and a social anxiety disorder that forced to get away from the game entirely for a while.

From the sound of this story, it doesn't sound like VY's really demanding out, he's just stating a desire to play football. If he's going to get it turned around, I'd call that a reasonable start.

I have doubts about VY ever being a great NFL QB, but he's a guy who can win games at this level. There are alot of starting NFL QBs who can't.

I'm not saying I expect him to get it turned around. I have no idea what's going on in his mind or if he's putting in the effort to make it happen. I'm just saying his emotional issues from last season shouldn't prevent that. I scenario in which the aging Collins gets hurt and VY stepping in to have a solid season wouldn't surprise me.

 
habsfan said:
Given Collins' vintage and the apparent lack of confidence in VY, isn't their future at QB something they need to address sooner rather than later? If they don't think VY can come back to do the job, would this have been a draft priority?
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It would seem so, but it would also be showing their hand.
 
pollardsvision said:
It sounds like many around here have thrown in the towel on this guy and I think that's a mistake.

During the VY hysteria of his rookie season, I got in many arguments with people that were convinced of VY's inevitable greatness. Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

Sure, VY turned into a headcase last season. He can get it turned around. The best pitcher in baseball right now is not too far removed from a battle with depression and a social anxiety disorder that forced to get away from the game entirely for a while.

From the sound of this story, it doesn't sound like VY's really demanding out, he's just stating a desire to play football. If he's going to get it turned around, I'd call that a reasonable start.

I have doubts about VY ever being a great NFL QB, but he's a guy who can win games at this level. There are alot of starting NFL QBs who can't.

I'm not saying I expect him to get it turned around. I have no idea what's going on in his mind or if he's putting in the effort to make it happen. I'm just saying his emotional issues from last season shouldn't prevent that. I scenario in which the aging Collins gets hurt and VY stepping in to have a solid season wouldn't surprise me.
Click to expand...
"The best pitcher in baseball" doesn't also have significant questions about his talent. Anytime a QB's best attributes are his "heart" and his "athleticism" rather than his ability to read defenses and accurately throw the damn football to the right receiver, I'd say you're looking at a sea of red flags. How many times do we have to see remarkable physical specimens like Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and Mike Vick fail as NFL QB's before we learn this lesson?

If you can't run a pro offense as a QB the way it's designed to be run, and do so against pro defenses, and instead you have to fill that void with "heart" or "leadership" and athleticism, you're operating with a very discernible cap to your potential. Yeah, you might lead a team into the playoffs, but you'll never be elite. It just won't happen.

And regarding Young, he's got an additional strike against him given that he's just such a QB, except that he's got emotional problems that undercut his ability to compete and lead, the very strengths he's relying upon to overcome his relative lack of talent in other areas (particularly, between the ears).

 
David Yudkin said:
Bri said:
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
wow, he's not worth thatI was sure the Titans would at least switch to him again in 2010 even if just for him spending TC as the #1 QB before he gets beat out. The Titans are frugal borderline cheap. I really wonder if he even sees that money.What's superstars Brady and Manning make in one year? 14 mil too?
Click to expand...
Brady salary: 2009: $5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2010: $3.5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $14.626 million (2009), $13.126 million (2010).Manning salary: 2009: $14 million, 2010: $15.8 million, 2011-2012: $14 million (Voidable Years). Cap charges: $21.2 million (2009), $23 million (2010).
Click to expand...
GB the Pats...
 
Sweet Love said:
David Yudkin said:
Bri said:
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
wow, he's not worth thatI was sure the Titans would at least switch to him again in 2010 even if just for him spending TC as the #1 QB before he gets beat out. The Titans are frugal borderline cheap. I really wonder if he even sees that money.What's superstars Brady and Manning make in one year? 14 mil too?
Click to expand...
Brady salary: 2009: $5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2010: $3.5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $14.626 million (2009), $13.126 million (2010).Manning salary: 2009: $14 million, 2010: $15.8 million, 2011-2012: $14 million (Voidable Years). Cap charges: $21.2 million (2009), $23 million (2010).
Click to expand...
GB the Pats...
Click to expand...
The Pats are going to have to step up to the plate and redo Brady's deal pretty soon, so I'm sure those numbers will change once his new deal is worked out. They will roll out higher salaries and stretch out his bonus into multiple years, so the numbers you see here will change for the worse unless they want to wait until the last minute.
 
What a moron, what an idiot. This guy is a massive loser, all he has to do is beat out Collins. Doesn't he understand that is how it works?

It sounds like he thinks it is his birth right to start at QB in the NFL. "I am ready to play now so start me or trade me".

 
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i like vince i really do.....but you just know this is going to end badly- i think his comments just reinforce the fact he can't handle the pressure............... again i don't think you are gonna see him on the titans' roster next season....he just doesn't have the intelligence or the arm skills to be an nfl quarterback....he's a poor man's michael vick

 
I dunno, I listened to the whole thirty seconds of audio, and it really wasn't that bad. They quoted the very last thing he said, but if you listen to the whole 30 seconds, it just sounds to me like he wants to play, and that has to be a good thing. Can't fault a guy for wanting to start.

If he came out and said "I'm okay riding the pine for another year, it doesn't bother me", then I'd be worried. He just sounds like a guy that wants to play to me. No big deal. It's not like he threatened a hold out or anything. He's out there competing and wants to start. Good. He should want to start.

 
Hawk said:
I dunno, I listened to the whole thirty seconds of audio, and it really wasn't that bad. They quoted the very last thing he said, but if you listen to the whole 30 seconds, it just sounds to me like he wants to play, and that has to be a good thing. Can't fault a guy for wanting to start. If he came out and said "I'm okay riding the pine for another year, it doesn't bother me", then I'd be worried. He just sounds like a guy that wants to play to me. No big deal. It's not like he threatened a hold out or anything. He's out there competing and wants to start. Good. He should want to start.
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I would love to start for an NFL team too. Big deal!
 
T Bell said:
Andy Herron said:
T Bell said:
So what exactly is the market for a hamburger-for-brains QB with depression and a horrendous throwing motion?
Click to expand...
Maybe a root beer float.
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A&W, Hires, Barq's or Dad's? This is important.
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On Wednesday you can get a free Root Beer Float at Sonic.Seriously, the Titans need to give him an opportunity at training camp to show something so that they can trade him. I just don't believe that he has the capacity to produce equivalent to his upcoming salary even if he did play this year for the Titans. The Titans game plan seems best suited for his talents, what they are.If he can't produce enough in camp, he could be cut this year. I see no way that he is not cut before 2010 barring a trade.
 
Bri said:
Mikey16x said:
Vince Young and a bottle of anti-depressants for ?
Click to expand...
Outside of Texas it'd probably be "please take his contract"...I understand. When push comes to shove, I think a Texas team will offer a late pick for him. He'll put fans in the seats there.
Click to expand...
Adding Vince Young to either Houston or Dallas would likely create an instant QB controversy in either city. I don't see why either team would want to do that. Both teams are at a quality level they can draw fans by making playoff runs and not needing gimmicks like local college favorites. Both teams have QBs that have shown some promise and that are worth continuing with. And both QBs also have just enough question mark (Schaub health & reads, Romo big game performance) that UT homers could seize to create a QB controversy.I don't see why either team would want to take that on. They would need to be in a situation where they are ready to give up on their current QB. And neither team should be in that position now.
 
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
Based on this it looks like most of his guaranteed money is gone already. If my math is right, he has roughly 2.46 million hitting the cap for every year from those two bonuses. If the Titans cut him after 2009, they will eat only a 4.92 Million cap hit if none of the 2010 & 2011 money is guaranteed. I'd look for that to be what happens if he doesn't play well enough to start in 2009.
 
I'm as big a VY fan as anyone and this is stupid. if he were to be released/traded right now, he'd end up as a backup somewhere. If he stays in Tennessee, keeps his mouth shut, and work hard he'll make a TON of money and in all likelihood get his job back in the next 18 months even if he never outplays Collins. I think he is drastically overthinking his value at this juncture.

I don't mind him wanting to compete for his job, but talking like this at this point in the offseason TO A STATION IN BALTIMORE OF ALL PLACES is ridiculous and will not endear him to the very fans that he'll need in his corner if he's ever going to play for Tennessee again.

 
pollardsvision said:
It sounds like many around here have thrown in the towel on this guy and I think that's a mistake.During the VY hysteria of his rookie season, I got in many arguments with people that were convinced of VY's inevitable greatness. Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.Sure, VY turned into a headcase last season. He can get it turned around. The best pitcher in baseball right now is not too far removed from a battle with depression and a social anxiety disorder that forced to get away from the game entirely for a while. From the sound of this story, it doesn't sound like VY's really demanding out, he's just stating a desire to play football. If he's going to get it turned around, I'd call that a reasonable start.I have doubts about VY ever being a great NFL QB, but he's a guy who can win games at this level. There are alot of starting NFL QBs who can't.I'm not saying I expect him to get it turned around. I have no idea what's going on in his mind or if he's putting in the effort to make it happen. I'm just saying his emotional issues from last season shouldn't prevent that. I scenario in which the aging Collins gets hurt and VY stepping in to have a solid season wouldn't surprise me.
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At QB in the NFL, you either are a tremendously committed and stable individual or you are not. VY Is not. So he has joined the ranks of Jeff George, Cade Mcknown, and whoever else. No turning back once you ask out of a game for psychological reasons.
 
T Bell said:
Anytime a QB's best attributes are his "heart" and his "athleticism" rather than his ability to read defenses and accurately throw the damn football to the right receiver, I'd say you're looking at a sea of red flags. How many times do we have to see remarkable physical specimens like Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and Mike Vick fail as NFL QB's before we learn this lesson?
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I wouldn't characterize Cunningham as a failure :confused:
 
RudeDog said:
T Bell said:
Anytime a QB's best attributes are his "heart" and his "athleticism" rather than his ability to read defenses and accurately throw the damn football to the right receiver, I'd say you're looking at a sea of red flags. How many times do we have to see remarkable physical specimens like Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and Mike Vick fail as NFL QB's before we learn this lesson?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't characterize Cunningham as a failure :coffee:
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What he said, and I'm not sure I'd characterize any of those guys as a failure, honestly. Vick was a different kind of a QB, and the Falcons had some success with him. It required having a scheme tailored to that type of QB.

Culpepper had some success with the Vikings, but I do think he's more a product of his receivers being good.

Cunningham proved he could play QB and make the throws with the Eagles & Vikes. If the Eagles offense wasn't a "Randall , go make something happen" afterthought under Buddy Ryan, who knows what could've happened. That play against the Giants on MNF is still one of the most awesome things I've seen in football.

 
stevegamer said:
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
Based on this it looks like most of his guaranteed money is gone already. If my math is right, he has roughly 2.46 million hitting the cap for every year from those two bonuses. If the Titans cut him after 2009, they will eat only a 4.92 Million cap hit if none of the 2010 & 2011 money is guaranteed. I'd look for that to be what happens if he doesn't play well enough to start in 2009.
Click to expand...
You need a salary cap to have a salary cap hit.
 
David Yudkin said:
stevegamer said:
David Yudkin said:
Sweet Love said:
ETA: I don't have his cap number, but I am under the impression many of these rookie contracts are front loaded due to signing bonuses, incentives, etc. which most of that money would already be passed at this point. Does anyone know what he counts against the cap?
Click to expand...
Young signed a six-year, $58 million contract in 2006. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. Salaries: 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus). Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).
Click to expand...
Based on this it looks like most of his guaranteed money is gone already. If my math is right, he has roughly 2.46 million hitting the cap for every year from those two bonuses. If the Titans cut him after 2009, they will eat only a 4.92 Million cap hit if none of the 2010 & 2011 money is guaranteed. I'd look for that to be what happens if he doesn't play well enough to start in 2009.
Click to expand...
You need a salary cap to have a salary cap hit.
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good point but, cap or not the guy's not worth 14-15 mil per yearI've been thinking of Haynesworth's contract and wondering if 14-15 per wouldn't have appeased him. The idea of keeping Vince and not having the $ for Haynesworth(or not wanting to have it) is a grrr... thought. The one year off (2010) not the current year is the only saving grace here.
 
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gregjcross said:
pollardsvision said:
It sounds like many around here have thrown in the towel on this guy and I think that's a mistake.During the VY hysteria of his rookie season, I got in many arguments with people that were convinced of VY's inevitable greatness. Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.Sure, VY turned into a headcase last season. He can get it turned around. The best pitcher in baseball right now is not too far removed from a battle with depression and a social anxiety disorder that forced to get away from the game entirely for a while. From the sound of this story, it doesn't sound like VY's really demanding out, he's just stating a desire to play football. If he's going to get it turned around, I'd call that a reasonable start.I have doubts about VY ever being a great NFL QB, but he's a guy who can win games at this level. There are alot of starting NFL QBs who can't.I'm not saying I expect him to get it turned around. I have no idea what's going on in his mind or if he's putting in the effort to make it happen. I'm just saying his emotional issues from last season shouldn't prevent that. I scenario in which the aging Collins gets hurt and VY stepping in to have a solid season wouldn't surprise me.
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At QB in the NFL, you either are a tremendously committed and stable individual or you are not. VY Is not. So he has joined the ranks of Jeff George, Cade Mcknown, and whoever else. No turning back once you ask out of a game for psychological reasons.
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What about Kerry Collins?
 
RudeDog said:
T Bell said:
Anytime a QB's best attributes are his "heart" and his "athleticism" rather than his ability to read defenses and accurately throw the damn football to the right receiver, I'd say you're looking at a sea of red flags. How many times do we have to see remarkable physical specimens like Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and Mike Vick fail as NFL QB's before we learn this lesson?
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I wouldn't characterize Cunningham as a failure :confused:
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:goodposting: Randall was 82-52 as a starter, with 3 seasons in which he accounted for 30+ TD's, not sure where he can be considered a failure. He didn't do it the prototypical way, but he got it done, and won a lot of games doing it. Vick as a failure is questionable as well, as he was 38-28-1 as a starter, and saw some success in the playoffs.

If the benchmarks are going to be wins, and numbers that impress, both have credentials. If the benchmark is going to be championships, well.. the list of failure pocket passers is going to be full of some really good QB's as well.

 
T Bell said:
pollardsvision said:
It sounds like many around here have thrown in the towel on this guy and I think that's a mistake.

During the VY hysteria of his rookie season, I got in many arguments with people that were convinced of VY's inevitable greatness. Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

Sure, VY turned into a headcase last season. He can get it turned around. The best pitcher in baseball right now is not too far removed from a battle with depression and a social anxiety disorder that forced to get away from the game entirely for a while.

From the sound of this story, it doesn't sound like VY's really demanding out, he's just stating a desire to play football. If he's going to get it turned around, I'd call that a reasonable start.

I have doubts about VY ever being a great NFL QB, but he's a guy who can win games at this level. There are alot of starting NFL QBs who can't.

I'm not saying I expect him to get it turned around. I have no idea what's going on in his mind or if he's putting in the effort to make it happen. I'm just saying his emotional issues from last season shouldn't prevent that. I scenario in which the aging Collins gets hurt and VY stepping in to have a solid season wouldn't surprise me.
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"The best pitcher in baseball" doesn't also have significant questions about his talent. Anytime a QB's best attributes are his "heart" and his "athleticism" rather than his ability to read defenses and accurately throw the damn football to the right receiver, I'd say you're looking at a sea of red flags. How many times do we have to see remarkable physical specimens like Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper and Mike Vick fail as NFL QB's before we learn this lesson?

If you can't run a pro offense as a QB the way it's designed to be run, and do so against pro defenses, and instead you have to fill that void with "heart" or "leadership" and athleticism, you're operating with a very discernible cap to your potential. Yeah, you might lead a team into the playoffs, but you'll never be elite. It just won't happen.

And regarding Young, he's got an additional strike against him given that he's just such a QB, except that he's got emotional problems that undercut his ability to compete and lead, the very strengths he's relying upon to overcome his relative lack of talent in other areas (particularly, between the ears).
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As I said, I'm not really a fan of VY as a QB either. I'm just saying it's not unreasonable to think he can come back from his emotional issues of last season.He's a guy who's 18-11 as a starter in his brief NFL career, was also a winner in college and got better as a passer every season in college. He had some emotional issues last season in dealing with his injury, the booing, and possibly other things I don't know about, but he's never otherwise had any major character issues.

I don't love the guy at all, but I wouldn't be ready to give up on him yet either.

 
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