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Player Spotlight: Devin Hester (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2009 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. Last year, we published more than 120 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters. This year will be no different.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Devin Hester, WR, Chicago Bears

Player Page Link: Devin Hester Player Page

Each article will include:

Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member
Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads
FBG Projections
Consensus Member ProjectionsThe Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player
Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"
To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the playerProjections should include (at a minimum):

For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs
For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs
For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDsNow let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
The Bears' WR unit has not presented much of a threat to defenses over the past few seasons. But with a QB of Jay Cutler's ilk, I would not be surprised to see the WRs on the Bears perform much better than most anticipate this season. When a QB is able to make quick decisions as well as throw strikes all over the field, even average WRs can put up some decent to very good numbers. Given more opportunities and more accurate delivery of the football, I can easily see Hester exceeding the consensus expectations for the '09 season. I am not at all impressed with the group as a whole, and Hester has the most physical ability of any WR on the team with regards to gaining separation, RAC, and overall playmaking ability. Over the last quarter or so of '08, Hester was receiving an uptick in targets and that trend will rollover to this season. For those expecting Hester to fall short of improvement over last year or even a possible all-out flop, I would look again and evaluate the situation a bit more closely. I'm buying......at the right price, of course.... :hophead:

118 targets, 68 receptions

1050 rec yds, 7 TDs

210 rush yds, 1 TDs

3 Return TDs

 
I don't know how many times I saw Hester underthrown last year by Orton but it had to be atleast 5. I don't see Hester getting underthrown this year with Cutler at the helm. I see a nice year this year from Hester

70 catches

1100 yards

8 td's

The only bad thing about Hester is I see him being very inconsistent.

He might go off one game and totally disappear the next.

 
could someone fill me in on Hester's status on special teams? Is he still the primary PR and KR for 2009? If so, what contributed to his lack of return TDs in 2008?

IMO, the lack of return TDs was the only disappointing aspect of his 2008 season and plays a huge role in his 2009 projections.

 
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130/72/1100/6 & 6/65/1

Very hard to project TDs for him IMO, but I feel pretty comfortable with the rest. Cutler will make him look good finally. On top of that, his current ADP is pretty good value right now at WR38. He'll easily finish in the top-25.

 
he should be targeted as an excellent WR4...

he'll have big weeks and then kind of disappear.

65 / 1100 / 7 TDs - thats a min, his ceiling could be 80ish recs

 
118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
This would have been WR8 last season (FBG scoring), without even counting the return TDs. Do you really expect him to be a top 10 WR?
70 catches1100 yards8 td's
This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring). Do you really expect him to be a top 15 WR?
130/72/1100/6 & 6/65/1He'll easily finish in the top-25.
This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring), quite a bit better than "top 25." Do you really expect him to be a top 15 WR?
he should be targeted as an excellent WR4... he'll have big weeks and then kind of disappear.65 / 1100 / 7 TDs - thats a min, his ceiling could be 80ish recs
LOL at WR4. This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring).I think the general take here is too high... I'll be back later with projections.
 
118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
This would have been WR8 last season (FBG scoring), without even counting the return TDs. Do you really expect him to be a top 10 WR?
70 catches1100 yards8 td's
This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring). Do you really expect him to be a top 15 WR?
130/72/1100/6 & 6/65/1He'll easily finish in the top-25.
This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring), quite a bit better than "top 25." Do you really expect him to be a top 15 WR?
he should be targeted as an excellent WR4... he'll have big weeks and then kind of disappear.65 / 1100 / 7 TDs - thats a min, his ceiling could be 80ish recs
LOL at WR4. This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring).I think the general take here is too high... I'll be back later with projections.
:goodposting: seem like everyone thinks that Hester will break out, While I dont doubt he will have his best season to date these projections seem awfully high.
 
he should be targeted as an excellent WR4... he'll have big weeks and then kind of disappear.65 / 1100 / 7 TDs - thats a min, his ceiling could be 80ish recs
LOL at WR4. This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring).I think the general take here is too high... I'll be back later with projections.
His Avg PPR Draft Position is WR49 according to MFL, Avg pick is 95... what I was trying to say his he'll make you a great WR4 option.Stop being a tool and you might get some good advice.
 
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he should be targeted as an excellent WR4... he'll have big weeks and then kind of disappear.65 / 1100 / 7 TDs - thats a min, his ceiling could be 80ish recs
LOL at WR4. This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring).I think the general take here is too high... I'll be back later with projections.
His Avg Draft Position is WR49 according to MFL, Avg pick is 95... what I was trying to say his he'll make you a great WR4 option.Stop being a tool and you might get some good advice.
A tool? :rolleyes:If you meant that he'd be great value if drafted as a WR4, which is where he is currently being drafted, then say that. The fact remains that you are projecting him as a top 15 WR, which is what I was questioning.
 
The Bears' WR unit has not presented much of a threat to defenses over the past few seasons. But with a QB of Jay Cutler's ilk, I would not be surprised to see the WRs on the Bears perform much better than most anticipate this season. When a QB is able to make quick decisions as well as throw strikes all over the field, even average WRs can put up some decent to very good numbers. Given more opportunities and more accurate delivery of the football, I can easily see Hester exceeding the consensus expectations for the '09 season. I am not at all impressed with the group as a whole, and Hester has the most physical ability of any WR on the team with regards to gaining separation, RAC, and overall playmaking ability. Over the last quarter or so of '08, Hester was receiving an uptick in targets and that trend will rollover to this season. For those expecting Hester to fall short of improvement over last year or even a possible all-out flop, I would look again and evaluate the situation a bit more closely. I'm buying......at the right price, of course.... :hophead: 118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
210 rushing yards?You expect them to change up the offense that much for Hester this year?2007 7 rushes for -10 yards2008 6 rushes for 61 yards
 
The Bears' WR unit has not presented much of a threat to defenses over the past few seasons. But with a QB of Jay Cutler's ilk, I would not be surprised to see the WRs on the Bears perform much better than most anticipate this season. When a QB is able to make quick decisions as well as throw strikes all over the field, even average WRs can put up some decent to very good numbers. Given more opportunities and more accurate delivery of the football, I can easily see Hester exceeding the consensus expectations for the '09 season. I am not at all impressed with the group as a whole, and Hester has the most physical ability of any WR on the team with regards to gaining separation, RAC, and overall playmaking ability. Over the last quarter or so of '08, Hester was receiving an uptick in targets and that trend will rollover to this season. For those expecting Hester to fall short of improvement over last year or even a possible all-out flop, I would look again and evaluate the situation a bit more closely. I'm buying......at the right price, of course.... :hophead: 118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
210 rushing yards?You expect them to change up the offense that much for Hester this year?2007 7 rushes for -10 yards2008 6 rushes for 61 yards
I just read that they are going to run the Wildcat through Hester. I think that could increase his rushing numbers to at least 200/1. Hester with the ball in space is dangerous for Def.
 
Yes...because the wildcat outside of the one game was so successful in the NFL...especially now that teams have had an offense to see film on it and know it may be coming from them.

Sorry...not seeing it.

The wildcat is a nice fad and buzzword...and I laugh at those teams talking it up as if they are going to go to it all that often.

 
Yes...because the wildcat outside of the one game was so successful in the NFL...especially now that teams have had an offense to see film on it and know it may be coming from them.Sorry...not seeing it.The wildcat is a nice fad and buzzword...and I laugh at those teams talking it up as if they are going to go to it all that often.
:goodposting: The Wildcat was truly a 1-game wonder
 
118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
This would have been WR8 last season (FBG scoring), without even counting the return TDs. Do you really expect him to be a top 10 WR?I think the general take here is too high... I'll be back later with projections.
:goodposting: seem like everyone thinks that Hester will break out, While I dont doubt he will have his best season to date these projections seem awfully high.
I don't care what type of finish that my projection would have netted last year. This is a new year. Will Hester be Top 10? I dunno, doubt these hold up to top 10 this year in my leagues (PPR), but regardless, I stand by my numbers.......and back them by drafting him as suchSincerely,The same guy who predicted V-Jax to shine last year after four years of non-descript numbers.......and drafted him as such, often, and without hesitation
 
sho nuff said:
The Bears' WR unit has not presented much of a threat to defenses over the past few seasons. But with a QB of Jay Cutler's ilk, I would not be surprised to see the WRs on the Bears perform much better than most anticipate this season. When a QB is able to make quick decisions as well as throw strikes all over the field, even average WRs can put up some decent to very good numbers. Given more opportunities and more accurate delivery of the football, I can easily see Hester exceeding the consensus expectations for the '09 season. I am not at all impressed with the group as a whole, and Hester has the most physical ability of any WR on the team with regards to gaining separation, RAC, and overall playmaking ability. Over the last quarter or so of '08, Hester was receiving an uptick in targets and that trend will rollover to this season. For those expecting Hester to fall short of improvement over last year or even a possible all-out flop, I would look again and evaluate the situation a bit more closely. I'm buying......at the right price, of course.... :hophead: 118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
210 rushing yards?You expect them to change up the offense that much for Hester this year?2007 7 rushes for -10 yards2008 6 rushes for 61 yards
two words.....Jay Cutlertwo more...Wild Cattwo more...talent -edand last two....Sho nuff!
 
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sho nuff said:
Yes...because the wildcat outside of the one game was so successful in the NFL...especially now that teams have had an offense to see film on it and know it may be coming from them.Sorry...not seeing it.The wildcat is a nice fad and buzzword...and I laugh at those teams talking it up as if they are going to go to it all that often.
:goodposting:
 
Just Win Baby said:
puckalicious said:
Just Win Baby said:
puckalicious said:
130/72/1100/6 & 6/65/1He'll easily finish in the top-25.
This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring), quite a bit better than "top 25." Do you really expect him to be a top 15 WR?
I think you are well aware that very little separates WR15 - WR25. That's typically just over 1 pt/game.
OK, that's true. Still, do you think he'll be a top 15 WR?
I think my projection was pretty clear, were not here to determine position ranking. I think he'll post stats to be good enough for the top 25, and if my projection to you means top 15 then sure, ok.
 
Just Win Baby said:
puckalicious said:
Just Win Baby said:
puckalicious said:
130/72/1100/6 & 6/65/1He'll easily finish in the top-25.
This would have been WR13 last season (FBG scoring), quite a bit better than "top 25." Do you really expect him to be a top 15 WR?
I think you are well aware that very little separates WR15 - WR25. That's typically just over 1 pt/game.
OK, that's true. Still, do you think he'll be a top 15 WR?
I think my projection was pretty clear, were not here to determine position ranking. I think he'll post stats to be good enough for the top 25, and if my projection to you means top 15 then sure, ok.
Fair enough.
 
118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
This would have been WR8 last season (FBG scoring), without even counting the return TDs. Do you really expect him to be a top 10 WR?I think the general take here is too high... I'll be back later with projections.
:goodposting: seem like everyone thinks that Hester will break out, While I dont doubt he will have his best season to date these projections seem awfully high.
I don't care what type of finish that my projection would have netted last year. This is a new year. Will Hester be Top 10? I dunno, doubt these hold up to top 10 this year in my leagues (PPR), but regardless, I stand by my numbers.......and back them by drafting him as suchSincerely,The same guy who predicted V-Jax to shine last year after four years of non-descript numbers.......and drafted him as such, often, and without hesitation
Fair enough.
 
Last year, Chicago ran 991 plays, including somewhere in the neighborhood of 575 passing plays (528 passing attempts, 29 sacks, 27 rushing attempts for Orton and Grossman, less some planned QB sneaks). That left 397 rushing attempts for the RBs and 10 rushing attempts for the WRs.

Bears offense under Lovie:

In 2008, Chicago ran 991 plays, including approximately 575 passing plays (combining passing attempts, sacks, and most QB rushing attempts)... that's 58.0% passing plays.

In 2007, Chicago ran 1035 plays, including approximately 635 passing plays (61.4%).

In 2006, Chicago ran 1042 plays, including approximately 565 passing plays (54.2%).

In 2005, Chicago ran 937 plays, including approximately 474 passing plays (50.6%).

In 2004, Chicago ran 967 plays, including approximately 575 passing plays (50.6%).

During Lovie's tenure, the defense has been great in 2 seasons (2005 & 2006) and average to poor in the other 3 seasons. The running game has been above average in 2 seasons (2005 & 2006) and average to poor in the other 3 seasons. Unsurprisingly, 2005 & 2006 were the two seasons under Lovie that the Bears were good and made the playoffs. I assume he would like to win games with defense and by controlling the clock, if possible, since that is what has worked for him.

We can throw out 2004 since it is so far back and because Lovie was in his first year. We can throw out 2005 & 2006 because the defense and running game were much stronger and 2007 because the running game was so much weaker. Last year seems to be the most reasonable comparison in terms of the offensive playcalling.

But what about Cutler? I think they'll hold the passing plays around the same percentage, if not slightly lower, hoping that the passing will be more effective and thus more productive without shifting to more of a pass heavy offense. This should also make the running game more effective, and the combination of these, and perhaps an improved defense, should mean more plays. I'll project 1020 plays, with the passing plays broken down like this:

550 passing attempts, 25 sacks, and 25 scrambles for Cutler (along with 15-20 called QB rushing attempts).

So how should those targets break down? Here is last year's breakdown:

Forte 77

Other RBs 29

Total RBs 106

Hester 92

Davis 67

Lloyd 50

Booker 49

Other WRs 2

Total WRs 260

Olsen 82

Clark 73

Other TEs 0

Total TEs 155

This year, Iglesias and Bennett replace Lloyd and Booker, and again there should be 4 WRs active in the passing game. I think Hester will likely lead the team in targets, but I don't think he will be significantly ahead of Bennett. So, how many targets will he get?

Last year, the RBs and TEs combined to get roughly 50% of the targets. They were effective in their roles, and with Forte and Olsen as potential emerging stars, I don't see that dropping. So I'll assume the WRs will get half of the targets. Last year, Hester got roughly 35% of the WR targets. I expect that will go up a bit, so I'll give him 110 (40% of the WR targets).

On his 92 targets last season, he posted 51/665/3 (13.0 ypr). First off, that is a 55% catch rate. With Cutler, who will presumably be more accurate, along with Hester's presumed season over season improvement, if he can raise his catch rate to 58%, that yields 64 catches.

He averaged 13.0 ypr last year and 14.9 ypr the year before on a much more limited sample set. Some people are apparently thinking he will significantly boost those numbers this year, but I'm not seeing it. Yes, Cutler is a better deep passer than Orton, I agree with that. However, I'm not convinced Cutler will have a lot more time to wait on those deep patterns than Orton did. I think 14.5 ypr is reasonable.

For his career he has caught a TD roughly once every 14 catches. Again, there could be an uptick with better deep passing from Cutler, but I don't see Hester as a big red zone threat, which limits his scoring upside. I'll go with 5 TD catches, a slight improvement in his career rate (and a greater improvement over last season).

So that is 64/928/5 receiving. I think his usage in the Wildcat and on reverses will be limited due to his value on special teams and as the Bears' #1 WR... I think 8/50/0 rushing is reasonable.

Sorry for the lengthy post, I just wrote the post as I worked through it.

 
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Last year, Chicago ran 991 plays, including somewhere in the neighborhood of 575 passing plays (528 passing attempts, 29 sacks, 27 rushing attempts for Orton and Grossman, less some planned QB sneaks). That left 397 rushing attempts for the RBs and 10 rushing attempts for the WRs.Bears offense under Lovie:In 2008, Chicago ran 991 plays, including approximately 575 passing plays (combining passing attempts, sacks, and most QB rushing attempts)... that's 58.0% passing plays.In 2007, Chicago ran 1035 plays, including approximately 635 passing plays (61.4%).In 2006, Chicago ran 1042 plays, including approximately 565 passing plays (54.2%).In 2005, Chicago ran 937 plays, including approximately 474 passing plays (50.6%).In 2004, Chicago ran 967 plays, including approximately 575 passing plays (50.6%).During Lovie's tenure, the defense has been great in 2 seasons (2005 & 2006) and average to poor in the other 3 seasons. The running game has been above average in 2 seasons (2005 & 2006) and average to poor in the other 3 seasons. Unsurprisingly, 2005 & 2006 were the two seasons under Lovie that the Bears were good and made the playoffs. I assume he would like to win games with defense and by controlling the clock, if possible, since that is what has worked for him.We can throw out 2004 since it is so far back and because Lovie was in his first year. We can throw out 2005 & 2006 because the defense and running game were much stronger and 2007 because the running game was so much weaker. Last year seems to be the most reasonable comparison in terms of the offensive playcalling.But what about Cutler? I think they'll hold the passing plays around the same percentage, if not slightly lower, hoping that the passing will be more effective and thus more productive without shifting to more of a pass heavy offense. This should also make the running game more effective, and the combination of these, and perhaps an improved defense, should mean more plays. I'll project 1020 plays, with the passing plays broken down like this:550 passing attempts, 25 sacks, and 25 scrambles for Cutler (along with 15-20 called QB rushing attempts).So how should those targets break down? Here is last year's breakdown:Forte 77Other RBs 29Total RBs 106Hester 92Davis 67Lloyd 50Booker 49Other WRs 2Total WRs 260Olsen 82Clark 73Other TEs 0Total TEs 155This year, Iglesias and Bennett replace Lloyd and Booker, and again there should be 4 WRs active in the passing game. I think Hester will likely lead the team in targets, but I don't think he will be significantly ahead of Bennett. So, how many targets will he get?Last year, the RBs and TEs combined to get roughly 50% of the targets. They were effective in their roles, and with Forte and Olsen as potential emerging stars, I don't see that dropping. So I'll assume the WRs will get half of the targets. Last year, Hester got roughly 35% of the WR targets. I expect that will go up a bit, so I'll give him 110 (40% of the WR targets).On his 92 targets last season, he posted 51/665/3 (13.0 ypr). First off, that is a 55% catch rate. With Cutler, who will presumably be more accurate, along with Hester's presumed season over season improvement, if he can raise his catch rate to 58%, that yields 64 catches.He averaged 13.0 ypr last year and 14.9 ypr the year before on a much more limited sample set. Some people are apparently thinking he will significantly boost those numbers this year, but I'm not seeing it. Yes, Cutler is a better deep passer than Orton, I agree with that. However, I'm not convinced Cutler will have a lot more time to wait on those deep patterns than Orton did. I think 14.5 ypr is reasonable.For his career he has caught a TD roughly once every 14 catches. Again, there could be an uptick with better deep passing from Cutler, but I don't see Hester as a big red zone threat, which limits his scoring upside. I'll go with 5 TD catches, a slight improvement in his career rate (and a greater improvement over last season).So that is 64/928/5 receiving. I think his usage in the Wildcat and on reverses will be limited due to his value on special teams and as the Bears' #1 WR... I think 8/50/0 rushing is reasonable.Sorry for the lengthy post, I just wrote the post as I worked through it.
Excellent analytical breakdown my man....u are my new hero! :thumbup: My approach is not quite as technical as yours, but we seemed to arrive at about the same receiving conclusion even with the different methodologies. I envision at least one big play out of a running formation, at least a 65-75 yarder, which inflates my rushing yardage projection to yield around 200 yards total. Yes, the long run can be predicted for a guy with limited carries (20-25), ala Felix last year, Vick in past years, Norwood every year, and Percy/Hester/Pat White this year. I just bumped him (Hester) in my rankings to ensure that I get him in all of my big $$$ leagues........that's my price I pay for posting my projections in here, and when I'm convinced, I don't mind paying it..... :excited:
 
Hester 92

Davis 67

Lloyd 50

Booker 49

Other WRs 2

Total WRs 260
LLoyd = DenverBooker = Released/Free Agent

Assuming you mean Bennett instead of Lloyd, and I think you are underselling him. Also, either Knox or Iglesias could get some real PT as a rookie. Have to see how they look in camp, but one should be no worse than the #4 this year. I think that is worth more that 2 targets.

 
Hester 92

Davis 67

Lloyd 50

Booker 49

Other WRs 2

Total WRs 260
LLoyd = DenverBooker = Released/Free Agent

Assuming you mean Bennett instead of Lloyd, and I think you are underselling him. Also, either Knox or Iglesias could get some real PT as a rookie. Have to see how they look in camp, but one should be no worse than the #4 this year. I think that is worth more that 2 targets.
I believe the poster stated that these were last year's numbers for the Bears WRs
 
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Ah. I see. My bad.However, much has changed to be basing it off 2008.
I think it is useful to look at 2008 and then make adjustments, which is what I did. I discussed most of the things that changed in my post - Cutler, Bennett and Iglesias in for Booker and Lloyd, (hopefully for Chicago) improved defense, emerging stars in Olsen and Forte... :shrug:Are you thinking that I missed something major?ETA: With respect to Hester, I increased his targets, receptions, yards, yards per catch, TDs, and TD percentage, some by non-trivial amounts. Of course, I didn't put him in the top 10-15 WRs like some others here, but I don't see (yet) an argument that I am selling him short.
 
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Expecting his targets to go from 92 to 110 may be unrealistic. I would think TE targets increase with Olsen entering his prime. I also expect Bennett to be a better target than Lloyd or Booker was last year. I also think (have to dig to find this) that most of last year when Hester was at WR he was not covered by the opponents #1CB. If this year he enters the season as the #1 option, he may draw the top CB. If so, don't you think his catch % will assuredly go down, not up?

 
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Expecting his targets to go from 92 to 110 may be unrealistic. I would think TE targets increase with Olsen entering his prime. I also expect Bennett to be a better target than Lloyd or Booker was last year. I also think (have to dig to find this) that most of last year when Hester was at WR he was not covered by the opponents #1CB. If this year he enters the season as the #1 option, he may draw the top CB. If so, don't you think his catch % will assuredly go down, not up?
1. IMO TE targets will not increase overall. I do think Olsen's targets will increase, but at the expense of other TEs, namely Clark, who had 73 targets last year.2. That said, I would not be surprised if he doesn't get 110. I think overall my projection is a bit on the aggressive side, even though it pales in comparison to some of the others in this thread. I think it depends in part on how good the other WRs are... the better they are, the more likely the Bears will spread the targets a bit in order to keep Hester as fresh as possible for his return duties.3. If not Hester, who was the #1 corner covering last year? Booker or Lloyd? I suppose it's possible that Hester will draw tougher assignments. However, as I posted, I think his presumed improvement year over year along with Cutler replacing Orton at QB should offset that enough for his catch percentage to up 3%, which is what I projected.
 
Expecting his targets to go from 92 to 110 may be unrealistic. I would think TE targets increase with Olsen entering his prime. I also expect Bennett to be a better target than Lloyd or Booker was last year. I also think (have to dig to find this) that most of last year when Hester was at WR he was not covered by the opponents #1CB. If this year he enters the season as the #1 option, he may draw the top CB. If so, don't you think his catch % will assuredly go down, not up?
to the contrary, i actually think 92 to 110 targets is very realistic, and only way that wouldnt happen is if Hester gets hurt. On the 2nd half of last year where he clearly emerged, he had 58 targets in the last 8 games with Orton. And now with Cutler, I dont see that pace slowing down at all. it can only go up IMO, since Hester's development as a WR going into his 3rd year playing the position will be even be more helpful.
 
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As an Olsen dynasty owner, I wish I could be certain Clark's targets will diminish in favor of more looks for Olsen.

In 2007 Clark had 66 targets, in 2008 it increased to 73.

In 2007 Olson had 66 targets, in 2008 it increased to 82.

Seems like with the dearth of WR options, the Bears found a way to get two TE's very involved in 2008. This was a season where both TE's played all 16 games, also.

I guess it comes down to the fact that while opportunity is there, I just don't see Hester as a very good WR. He runs average (at best) routes, has average hands, and it is hard to imagine he will not be overtaken by some of the young talent the Bears have picked up at WR (Bennett, Knox, Iglesias...) at some point.

You know, the projections of 64/928 you listed seem a very aggressive figure to me. I am shocked they are the low end of the spectrum here.

55-770-5 seems about right IMO. 14.0 YPR should be a usable figure, and I just don't see Hester getting upwards of 100 targets.

 
Expecting his targets to go from 92 to 110 may be unrealistic. I would think TE targets increase with Olsen entering his prime. I also expect Bennett to be a better target than Lloyd or Booker was last year. I also think (have to dig to find this) that most of last year when Hester was at WR he was not covered by the opponents #1CB. If this year he enters the season as the #1 option, he may draw the top CB. If so, don't you think his catch % will assuredly go down, not up?
to the contrary, i actually think 92 to 110 targets is very realistic, and only way that wouldnt happen is if Hester gets hurt. On the 2nd half of last year where he clearly emerged, he had 58 targets in the last 8 games with Orton. And now with Cutler, I dont see that pace slowing down at all. it can only go up IMO, since Hester's development as a WR going into his 3rd year playing the position will be even be more helpful.
I agree that people are giving WAY too much respect to the other WRs on the Bears, who are marginal prospects at best at this point, and that his targets are likely to stay at 7.0-7.5 per game. He's been named the clear #1 and I expect the Bears to throw to him like a #1.112-118 targets, 64-72 catches, 900-1050 yards, 5-8 TDs: 184 to 225 pts (PPR - with no rushing stats)

12-14 PPG - good for WR 20-30

 
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Expecting his targets to go from 92 to 110 may be unrealistic. I would think TE targets increase with Olsen entering his prime. I also expect Bennett to be a better target than Lloyd or Booker was last year. I also think (have to dig to find this) that most of last year when Hester was at WR he was not covered by the opponents #1CB. If this year he enters the season as the #1 option, he may draw the top CB. If so, don't you think his catch % will assuredly go down, not up?
to the contrary, i actually think 92 to 110 targets is very realistic, and only way that wouldnt happen is if Hester gets hurt. On the 2nd half of last year where he clearly emerged, he had 58 targets in the last 8 games with Orton. And now with Cutler, I dont see that pace slowing down at all. it can only go up IMO, since Hester's development as a WR going into his 3rd year playing the position will be even be more helpful.
I agree that people are giving WAY too much respect to the other WRs on the Bears, who are marginal prospects at best at this point, and that his targets are likely to stay at 7.0-7.5 per game. He's been named the clear #1 and I expect the Bears to throw to him like a #1.112-118 targets, 64-72 catches, 900-1050 yards, 5-8 TDs: 194 to 225 pts (PPR - with no rushing stats)

12-14 PPG - good for WR 20-30
Hester is lightning in a bottle, for sure, but I don't think he can perform at that level. If he was capable of being a #1 and beating a top CB week in and week out, there would be no issue. Since I don't think he is, I see him battling Clark and Bennett for 3rd place on his own team in receptions, behind Forte and Olsen. Conceivably, I could see him 4th on his own team in receptions (and a few staffers have predicted that on this very site! :thumbup: ). His spike in targets last year were helped by injuries to Lloyd (torn PCL) and Booker (Ribs). Kudos for making the most of it, but I don't see him effectively producing in the #1 WR role.

 
Expecting his targets to go from 92 to 110 may be unrealistic. I would think TE targets increase with Olsen entering his prime. I also expect Bennett to be a better target than Lloyd or Booker was last year. I also think (have to dig to find this) that most of last year when Hester was at WR he was not covered by the opponents #1CB. If this year he enters the season as the #1 option, he may draw the top CB. If so, don't you think his catch % will assuredly go down, not up?
to the contrary, i actually think 92 to 110 targets is very realistic, and only way that wouldnt happen is if Hester gets hurt. On the 2nd half of last year where he clearly emerged, he had 58 targets in the last 8 games with Orton. And now with Cutler, I dont see that pace slowing down at all. it can only go up IMO, since Hester's development as a WR going into his 3rd year playing the position will be even be more helpful.
I agree that people are giving WAY too much respect to the other WRs on the Bears, who are marginal prospects at best at this point, and that his targets are likely to stay at 7.0-7.5 per game. He's been named the clear #1 and I expect the Bears to throw to him like a #1.112-118 targets, 64-72 catches, 900-1050 yards, 5-8 TDs: 194 to 225 pts (PPR - with no rushing stats)

12-14 PPG - good for WR 20-30
Hester is lightning in a bottle, for sure, but I don't think he can perform at that level. If he was capable of being a #1 and beating a top CB week in and week out, there would be no issue. Since I don't think he is, I see him battling Clark and Bennett for 3rd place on his own team in receptions, behind Forte and Olsen. Conceivably, I could see him 4th on his own team in receptions (and a few staffers have predicted that on this very site! :thumbup: ). His spike in targets last year were helped by injuries to Lloyd (torn PCL) and Booker (Ribs). Kudos for making the most of it, but I don't see him effectively producing in the #1 WR role.
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center. Just like wdcrob said, too much respect being given to Bennett, Iglesias, Knox, or whoever ---- guys who don't have any NFL playing experience and has a total of less than 5 receptions combined in their career.I've had 4-5 early drafts and i have been snatching up Hester in the late 8th/9th round at WR30-37 price (wont be surprised if his ypc is anywhere between 15.5 and 16.5). I have actually very little doubts he'll outperform his current ADP.

 
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
 
Hester went 7.01 and 7.11 in my two early drafts. Too early. Ahead of much better (IMO) WRs.

Why do you think Forte will not reproduce his reception total? I think Forte is a lock for 50-55 catches if healthy. I have my doubts Hester can/will catch that many. We'll see. If he is anywhere near 17 YPR I would be astonished. He hasn't shown me any reason to expect that level of production for a full season.

I think the 35th-37th WR taken or so is about right. Low end #3/good #4. Bye week filler with upside.

 
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
based on Cutler will not DUMP to Forte a whole lot compared to Orton, and the whole CHI offense wont rely a TON on Forte in the passing game like last year, with Olsen and Hester development as receivers.Since Forte caught 64 balls last year, does that mean he's around that number (+/- 10)? I have Forte at 45 balls, with 15 balls going to other RB/FB. Cutler 319-540, 6.8ypa, 3650 yds.Forte 45Olsen/Hester 135Desmond 35other WRs (Bennett, Knox, Rashied) 85other RBs/FBs 15
 
TaxMan said:
Just Win Baby said:
TaxMan said:
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
based on Cutler will not DUMP to Forte a whole lot compared to Orton, and the whole CHI offense wont rely a TON on Forte in the passing game like last year, with Olsen and Hester development as receivers.Since Forte caught 64 balls last year, does that mean he's around that number (+/- 10)? I have Forte at 45 balls, with 15 balls going to other RB/FB. Cutler 319-540, 6.8ypa, 3650 yds.Forte 45Olsen/Hester 135Desmond 35other WRs (Bennett, Knox, Rashied) 85other RBs/FBs 15
Disagree but fair enough.
 
I don't know. I just don't really see Devin Hester as a legitimate wide receiver. He wasn't a wideout in college and has only been one for a year and a half in the NFL. I'm supposed to believe that guy is going to be a 1000 yard receiver? Nope. Overvalued.

 
sho nuff said:
The Bears' WR unit has not presented much of a threat to defenses over the past few seasons. But with a QB of Jay Cutler's ilk, I would not be surprised to see the WRs on the Bears perform much better than most anticipate this season. When a QB is able to make quick decisions as well as throw strikes all over the field, even average WRs can put up some decent to very good numbers. Given more opportunities and more accurate delivery of the football, I can easily see Hester exceeding the consensus expectations for the '09 season. I am not at all impressed with the group as a whole, and Hester has the most physical ability of any WR on the team with regards to gaining separation, RAC, and overall playmaking ability. Over the last quarter or so of '08, Hester was receiving an uptick in targets and that trend will rollover to this season. For those expecting Hester to fall short of improvement over last year or even a possible all-out flop, I would look again and evaluate the situation a bit more closely. I'm buying......at the right price, of course.... :hophead: 118 targets, 68 receptions1050 rec yds, 7 TDs210 rush yds, 1 TDs3 Return TDs
210 rushing yards?You expect them to change up the offense that much for Hester this year?2007 7 rushes for -10 yards2008 6 rushes for 61 yards
two words.....Jay Cutlertwo more...Wild Cattwo more...talent -edand last two....Sho nuff!
Jay Cutler turns him into a running back?Yes...so talented he does not run the ball much.And Ive addressed the wildcat (which is actually one word).
 
Just Win Baby said:
TaxMan said:
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
I think Forte's receptions will drop some.How many of those were dumpoffs with Orton not trying to do too much or worried about throwing downfield?I think with Cutler you will have less of those dumpoffs.Also, if the line struggles, how much does Forte stay in to block?
 
Just Win Baby said:
TaxMan said:
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
I think Forte's receptions will drop some.How many of those were dumpoffs with Orton not trying to do too much or worried about throwing downfield?I think with Cutler you will have less of those dumpoffs.Also, if the line struggles, how much does Forte stay in to block?
Your last point is moot. The Chicago OL was poor last year and Forte managed to catch a lot of passes, so I don't see any reason to think that he'll be asked to stay in and block more this season.
 
But what about Cutler? I think they'll hold the passing plays around the same percentage, if not slightly lower, hoping that the passing will be more effective and thus more productive without shifting to more of a pass heavy offense. This year, Iglesias and Bennett replace Lloyd and Booker, and again there should be 4 WRs active in the passing game. I think Hester will likely lead the team in targets, but I don't think he will be significantly ahead of Bennett. Last year, the RBs and TEs combined to get roughly 50% of the targets. They were effective in their roles, and with Forte and Olsen as potential emerging stars, I don't see that dropping. For his career he has caught a TD roughly once every 14 catches. Again, there could be an uptick with better deep passing from Cutler, but I don't see Hester as a big red zone threat, which limits his scoring upside. I'll go with 5 TD catches, a slight improvement in his career rate (and a greater improvement over last season).So that is 64/928/5 receiving. I think his usage in the Wildcat and on reverses will be limited due to his value on special teams and as the Bears' #1 WR... I think 8/50/0 rushing is reasonable.
Nice breakdown JWB. I really like the way you take the facts, add your analysis and come up with the projection. As a Bears fan, I wonder about the following (listed above)1. Last year the Bears had Unproven Orton (decent), Grossman (really bad) and Hurt Orton (bad) at QB. They traded away half of their team for a young star QB with a rocket arm. I don't think that they did this to run the same offense and throw less than they did last year with that assortment of QB play.2. Bennett wasn't even active for most of last year. I think that assuming that he will be a significant contributor-based mainly on his Vandy days with Cutler from what I've seen-is very risky.3. The Bears ran a largely dink/dunk offense last year because they had no WRs and Orton can't throw a deep ball with any accuracy. This led to tons of checkdowns and dumpoffs to Forte. I think Cutler changes this and the RB/TE targets go down accordingly-maybe not a lot but I think they will go down. Someone said that Olsen's targets will go up and I agree with this. I think that Clark and Forte will lose some targets.4. I think it is tough to project TDs for Hester because of the limited sample size and especially because I remember Orton missing Hester for4 or 5 bombs last year. If he catches 2-3 of those his numbers look a lot different (y/c, TD%) and that would increase the projection. I think that 5 TDs is awfully conservative for Hester, though I only have him with 7 so maybe not :)And after all of my nitpicking our projections are pretty similar :thumbup:
 
Just Win Baby said:
TaxMan said:
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
I think Forte's receptions will drop some.How many of those were dumpoffs with Orton not trying to do too much or worried about throwing downfield?I think with Cutler you will have less of those dumpoffs.Also, if the line struggles, how much does Forte stay in to block?
Your last point is moot. The Chicago OL was poor last year and Forte managed to catch a lot of passes, so I don't see any reason to think that he'll be asked to stay in and block more this season.
I agree it was poor last year...but he was also a rookie...will they look to do more downfield and keep him in to block rather than settling for the dumpoff with Cutler back there.I don't know...that is why there really was a question behind it...I was not trying to say he will...but wondering how much he does. Was he good at picking up the blitz last year or was it a problem for him?
 
Nice breakdown JWB. I really like the way you take the facts, add your analysis and come up with the projection. As a Bears fan, I wonder about the following (listed above)1. Last year the Bears had Unproven Orton (decent), Grossman (really bad) and Hurt Orton (bad) at QB. They traded away half of their team for a young star QB with a rocket arm. I don't think that they did this to run the same offense and throw less than they did last year with that assortment of QB play.
Well, I didn't project them to run the same offense. I projected them to run about the same percentage of passing plays, but that isn't the same thing. The nature of the passing and running plays can be different.And I didn't project them to throw less. Last year, the Bears had 528 passing attempts and here I projected them for 550. And if you throw in QB scrambles and sacks, I estimated that they called about 575 passing plays last year and I estimated about 600 this year. That means I'm projecting about 600 called passing plays and 420 called running plays this year. It's hard for me to envision a pass/run ratio more skewed to passing than that, when Lovie's teams have been most successful with much lower ratios.
2. Bennett wasn't even active for most of last year. I think that assuming that he will be a significant contributor-based mainly on his Vandy days with Cutler from what I've seen-is very risky.
I agree with this. Bennett seems like the most likely candidate to emerge, but, if he isn't ready, I think someone else will be. The bottom line is I can't see Hester with more than 40% of the WR targets, even if that means 3 other guys get 20% each rather than one guy getting more than the #3 and #4 guys.
3. The Bears ran a largely dink/dunk offense last year because they had no WRs and Orton can't throw a deep ball with any accuracy. This led to tons of checkdowns and dumpoffs to Forte. I think Cutler changes this and the RB/TE targets go down accordingly-maybe not a lot but I think they will go down. Someone said that Olsen's targets will go up and I agree with this. I think that Clark and Forte will lose some targets.
IMO Orton is better than most people think. I think he will show that in Denver this year with better receiving targets, OL, running game, and playcalling. But that's another discussion.I agree the Bears had no WRs last year, and Hester was in that group. Hester may be the Bears' #1 WR, but on 90% of the teams in the NFL he'd be a kick returner who doubles as a #3 WR at best. IMO just because they added Cutler and a couple rookie WRs does not significantly change the quality of their WRs. IMO Forte remains one of the top 2 receiving options on the team, along with Olsen, and consequently I think he will still get his targets.It's not like the Bears inordinately targeted their RBs last year... their RBs got just over 20% of the targets. That was #15 in the league in terms of percentage of targets going to RBs, and that was less than 1% higher than 5 other teams. It seems perfectly reasonable to think they will stay in the middle of the league in this area.
4. I think it is tough to project TDs for Hester because of the limited sample size and especially because I remember Orton missing Hester for4 or 5 bombs last year. If he catches 2-3 of those his numbers look a lot different (y/c, TD%) and that would increase the projection. I think that 5 TDs is awfully conservative for Hester, though I only have him with 7 so maybe not :)
Right, so if he caught 2 more last year, he would have had 5 TDs, which is what I'm projecting this year. :shrug:Hester only had 9 red zone targets last year. That really limits his TD potential IMO. I don't see any reason to believe his red zone opportunities will significantly increase this year, so for him to score 7 or more TDs, it seems that 5 or more of them will have to be long TDs. I just don't see the likelihood that he gets more than 3-4 long scores.
 
Just Win Baby said:
TaxMan said:
Sure, Olsen can out-catch Hester or be pretty close, though i am certain Forte wont get nowhere near 60+ rec with Cutler under center.
Based on what? Because Cutler didn't throw a lot to his RBs? What he did in the past is apples and oranges to his current situation. In Denver, Cutler played in a less conservative offensive scheme, had better WRs, and a better OL to enable downfield patterns to develop... and he did not have a receiving RB as good as Forte. I'm not saying Forte will have 60+ receptions, but to suggest he'll be "nowhere near" that seems off base IMO, unless Forte gets hurt.
I think Forte's receptions will drop some.How many of those were dumpoffs with Orton not trying to do too much or worried about throwing downfield?I think with Cutler you will have less of those dumpoffs.Also, if the line struggles, how much does Forte stay in to block?
Your last point is moot. The Chicago OL was poor last year and Forte managed to catch a lot of passes, so I don't see any reason to think that he'll be asked to stay in and block more this season.
I agree it was poor last year...but he was also a rookie...will they look to do more downfield and keep him in to block rather than settling for the dumpoff with Cutler back there.I don't know...that is why there really was a question behind it...I was not trying to say he will...but wondering how much he does. Was he good at picking up the blitz last year or was it a problem for him?
Perhaps someone else can address that. I'm not aware that picking up the blitz was a problem for him. However, the point is that the Bears' receiving targets were weak enough that Forte was one of their top few receiving options. They haven't upgraded the receiving targets enough to change that IMO. As I just noted in my previous post, the Bears were in the middle of the league (#15) in terms of the percentage of time they targeted their RBs. I don't see any basis for thinking that percentage will drop significantly.I think a big factor is that people underestimate the situation Cutler had in Denver. He had excellent downfield receiving options and arguably the best pass blocking OL in the league last year, and he also had an aggressive offensive playcaller. That combination led him to throw downfield a lot. In Chicago, he does not have excellent downfield receiving options, does not have a great pass blocking OL to allow deep patterns to develop, and does not have an aggressive offensive playcaller (though I'm sure they'll be somewhat more aggressive with Cutler).Yes, I'm sure they will throw downfield more, but I don't think Forte's targets and production will dropoff significantly, especially given the likelihood that the Bears will have more passing attempts.
 
And I didn't project them to throw less.
:unsure:
But what about Cutler? I think they'll hold the passing plays around the same percentage, if not slightly lower, hoping that the passing will be more effective and thus more productive without shifting to more of a pass heavy offense.
You're projecting more plays at a lower percentage. I'm saying that I don't think that they did all of that to get Cutler to throw less-at a lower rate-than they did last year for the reasons explained. And by same offense I mean throw so few longer routes and so many balls to the TEs and RBs. I don't expect that to repeat itself because Cutler has a much better arm and is more accurate than Orton.
I agree the Bears had no WRs last year, and Hester was in that group. Hester may be the Bears' #1 WR, but on 90% of the teams in the NFL he'd be a kick returner who doubles as a #3 WR at best. IMO just because they added Cutler and a couple rookie WRs does not significantly change the quality of their WRs.
Fair enough, agree to disagree. I think Cutler makes all of the difference in the world. You like Orton but remember that he was only somewhat good for half the year. The other half was Grossman and Bad/Injured Orton. We all agree that Cutler is an improvement over Orton-though we disagree on the extent. Cutler over Grossman and Bad/Injured Orton is tremendous and I think that helps Hester's numbers quite a bit.
It's not like the Bears inordinately targeted their RBs last year... their RBs got just over 20% of the targets. That was #15 in the league in terms of percentage of targets going to RBs, and that was less than 1% higher than 5 other teams. It seems perfectly reasonable to think they will stay in the middle of the league in this area.
Fair enough, agree to disagree again. I don't see them dinking and dunking as much as they did last year.
Hester only had 9 red zone targets last year. That really limits his TD potential IMO. I don't see any reason to believe his red zone opportunities will significantly increase this year, so for him to score 7 or more TDs, it seems that 5 or more of them will have to be long TDs. I just don't see the likelihood that he gets more than 3-4 long scores.
Good point. I'm thinking mostly longer TDs with my projection of 7 which may be wishful thinking since long TDs are somewhat fluky. Also, I think I'm objective but with the Bears but you never know, there may be some :homer: in my analysis

 

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