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Who has had the better Career Manning or Brady? (1 Viewer)

Who has had a better Career?

  • Peyton Manning

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Tom Brady

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
T

tdmills

Footballguy
I know this will be debated through many different forms.

Stats:

Peyton Manning- 183 games 4,026 of 6,223(64.7%) 47,855 yards 348 TD's 169 INT's 95.4 QB rating.

Tom Brady- 120 games 2,480 of 3,926(63.2%) 28,478 yards 212 TD's 90 INT's 93.4 QB rating.

Super Bowl Titles:

Peyton Manning- 1

Tom Brady- 3

But this is another aspect I thought about, not sure if it discussed often.

Skill position players draft around them in the first two rounds.

Peyton Manning- Marvin Harrison(in his 3rd season when manning got into the league) WR 1st round pick, Jerome Pathon WR 2nd round pick, Edgerrin James RB 1st round pick, Reggie Wayne WR 1st round pick, Dallas Clark TE 1st round pick, Joseph Addai RB 1st round pick, Anthony Gonzalez WR 1st round pick, and Donald Brown RB 1st round pick.

Total first round picks- 7 (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)

Total second round picks- 1 (1 WR)

Tom Brady - Kevin Faulk(in his 2nd season when brady got into the league) RB 2nd round pick, Daniel Graham TE 1st round pick, Deion Branch WR 2nd round pick, Bethel Johnson WR 2nd round pick, Ben Watson TE 1st round pick, Lawrence Maroney RB 1st round pick, and Chad Jackson WR 2nd round pick.

Total first round picks- 3 (2 TE, 1 RB)

Total second round picks- 4 (3 WR, 1 RB)

Now granted this doesn't take into account trades or Free agent signings ( Moss and Welker).

Thought it was something significant that doesn't get taken into consideration often.

 
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Would Brady trade his career for Manning's? No.

Would Manning trade his career for Brady's? Yes.

Answer: Brady

 
dgreen said:
Would Brady trade his career for Manning's? No.Would Manning trade his career for Brady's? Yes.Answer: Brady
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That may be, as I am sure Manning would rather have three Super Bowl rings than one, but that one thing doesn't make Brady's career necessarily better. I am sure Dan Marino would love to have Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl ring, but that doesn't mean Dilfer had a better career.
 
Ghost Rider said:
dgreen said:
Would Brady trade his career for Manning's? No.Would Manning trade his career for Brady's? Yes.Answer: Brady
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That may be, as I am sure Manning would rather have three Super Bowl rings than one, but that one thing doesn't make Brady's career necessarily better. I am sure Dan Marino would love to have Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl ring, but that doesn't mean Dilfer had a better career.
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Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.I think it deserves some discussion.
 
Oh dear - this is how it always starts:

"Brady has more rings"

"So what - Is Dilfer better than Marino because he has a ring?"

:bag:

Then we'll have 5 pages of boring, pointless arguing - and then this will get bumped on November 15th, 11:46pm EST no matter who wins the Colts/Pats game.

:lmao:

 
tdmills said:
Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.I think it deserves some discussion.
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I did, but it has been discussed many times over the years, and I honestly don't have the will or the want to debate it again, at least not today. Perhaps others will. :bag:
 
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Perhaps we should wait until both are retired and in the hall of fame to settle this debate?

 
tdmills said:
Ghost Rider said:
dgreen said:
Would Brady trade his career for Manning's? No.Would Manning trade his career for Brady's? Yes.Answer: Brady
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That may be, as I am sure Manning would rather have three Super Bowl rings than one, but that one thing doesn't make Brady's career necessarily better. I am sure Dan Marino would love to have Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl ring, but that doesn't mean Dilfer had a better career.
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Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.I think it deserves some discussion.
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There are other factors other than draft picks, such as free agent signings and trades. Looking only at draft picks completely ignores the trades/free agentpickups that brought Moss and Welker to New England.Also in every discussion of Super Bowl success, everyone focuses on the QB and the offensive side of the ball. Defense certainly plays just as much a partof Super Bowls wins, if not more. Manning has played on a lot of teams with subpar defenses. No one will ever know what effect, if any, have a defenselike or close to those that New England had would have had on the playoff success of the Colts.
 
Brady's wife is hotter*. Does that count for something?

*I've never Mannings wife, so I'm just assuming. I figure it's a safe assumption.

 
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tdmills said:
Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.I think it deserves some discussion.
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It does - but by your own admission that doesn't account for FA (like Moss and Welker, who are pretty good). Also, in the discussion about the 7 1st round picks for Indy, Brown is a rookie RB, who is currently injured and splitting time with Addai and A. Gonzalez was a rookie WR last year who has been hurt this entire season. So while it does deserve some discussion, it doesn't seem nearly as much a factor as some would make it out to be. Yes 7>3, but how do figure Moss in that? How do you account for the fact that 2 of the 7 are splitting time (i.e. only one is on the field at a time) or the fact that one (Gonzalez) has been injured his entire 2nd season? Also, how do you account for the fact that Manning has started almost 70 more games than Brady? Frankly, I think this discussion will be a much more interesting one, once both players have completed their careers.
 
Ghost Rider said:
dgreen said:
Would Brady trade his career for Manning's? No.Would Manning trade his career for Brady's? Yes.Answer: Brady
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That may be, as I am sure Manning would rather have three Super Bowl rings than one, but that one thing doesn't make Brady's career necessarily better. I am sure Dan Marino would love to have Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl ring, but that doesn't mean Dilfer had a better career.
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I'm not so sure Marino would trade his career for Dilfer's.
 
Assuming Brett Farve ever quits, Manning will eventually have the major passing records, yards, TDs. And Peyton's wife is pretty hot too, so I am leaning towards Manning.

 
DoubleG said:
tdmills said:
Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.I think it deserves some discussion.
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It does - but by your own admission that doesn't account for FA (like Moss and Welker, who are pretty good). Also, in the discussion about the 7 1st round picks for Indy, Brown is a rookie RB, who is currently injured and splitting time with Addai and A. Gonzalez was a rookie WR last year who has been hurt this entire season. So while it does deserve some discussion, it doesn't seem nearly as much a factor as some would make it out to be. Yes 7>3, but how do figure Moss in that? How do you account for the fact that 2 of the 7 are splitting time (i.e. only one is on the field at a time) or the fact that one (Gonzalez) has been injured his entire 2nd season? Also, how do you account for the fact that Manning has started almost 70 more games than Brady? Frankly, I think this discussion will be a much more interesting one, once both players have completed their careers.
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My point is having more talent around a Qb will produce better #'s. The colts administration has tried to surround him with many skill players. Brady has had considerably less and has had Moss/Welker for 1.5 seasons(23 games).
 
^ Did you take into account the fact that the Patriots have had considerably better defenses than the Colts?

 
Peyton Manning is my favorite QB in NFL history and if I weren't a Jets fan to the bone then I'd probably be a Colts fan due to him.

Being a Jets fan, that automatically means that I HATE Tom Brady.

.

.

.

.

I still chose Brady.

 
spider321 said:
^ Did you take into account the fact that the Patriots have had considerably better defenses than the Colts?
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Wouldn't that make the Super Bowl chances for the Pats go up and the Colts down?But it would also make the Colts pass more and the Pats less.
 
tdmills said:
DoubleG said:
tdmills said:
Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.

I think it deserves some discussion.
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It does - but by your own admission that doesn't account for FA (like Moss and Welker, who are pretty good).Also, in the discussion about the 7 1st round picks for Indy, Brown is a rookie RB, who is currently injured and splitting time with Addai and A. Gonzalez was a rookie WR last year who has been hurt this entire season.

So while it does deserve some discussion, it doesn't seem nearly as much a factor as some would make it out to be. Yes 7>3, but how do figure Moss in that? How do you account for the fact that 2 of the 7 are splitting time (i.e. only one is on the field at a time) or the fact that one (Gonzalez) has been injured his entire 2nd season?

Also, how do you account for the fact that Manning has started almost 70 more games than Brady?

Frankly, I think this discussion will be a much more interesting one, once both players have completed their careers.
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My point is having more talent around a Qb will produce better #'s. The colts administration has tried to surround him with many skill players. Brady has had considerably less and has had Moss/Welker for 1.5 seasons(23 games).
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Okay...so this season, who has better WRs around them? (Collie/Garcon vs. Moss/Welker) Who is producing better numbers?Career wise, it's fairly clear at this point in time that Manning's carreer numbers are better. If Brady can continue to have his numbers look more like 2007 than his other years - and prove that is not a drastic fluke, then it will be a discussion. For now, Manning has 6 seasons (of his 12) where he has thrown for 28 or more TDs - Brady has thrown 28 or more only 3 times (and I chose a number that favors Brady). For example, I could have chosen 26 TDs - Manning is 12 of 12 in hitting that #, Brady only 4 of 10. I could have chosen 30 TDs as the benchmark - Manning 4 times (and 2 in the last 3 years) Brady only once.

We could also look at season's with QB rating of over 100 - Manning 3, Brady only 1 (again, 2007). How about season with completion % of over 65%? Manning has done it that last 7 seasons is a row. Brady? Only 1 - care to guess what year? If you said "2007" you'd be correct.

I realize saying "If you take away Brady's 50 TD season..." is akin to the bogus "if you just take out the 3 big runs..." - however, if you take away Manning's 49 TD season, he's still averaging 25.8 TDs/season. If you take out Brady's 50 TD season, he is averaging 16.3 TDs a season. Yes, Brady got hurt last year - but should that factor into the career discussion or not?

My point simply is that for both, it's a little early to have a career discussion - moreso from Brady's perspective, as he has had several solid years and one great year. Manning has had several very good years and one great year. If Brady has more years that look like 2006 (i.e. 24-12 TD-INT) than like 2007, then it's clear. If his numbers are closer to 2007 than 2006 for the next several years, then you have a case - especially when you factor in talent around them.

On the flipside, however, it doesn't seem very genuine a question if you count Brady's rings, then not discuss team defenses over that span. Championships are won by orginizations, not just teams - and definately not just QBs. Obviously, surrounding offensive talent will in some way influence the QB numbers - but looking at rings is just silly. There is a long list of QBs that have fewer rings than Terry Bradshaw that are far better QBs than he ever was. Can we please stop trying to use Championships as a measuring stick for QB career success? It makes Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton and Dan Fouts cry.

 
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tdmills said:
My point is having more talent around a Qb will produce better #'s. The colts administration has tried to surround him with many skill players. Brady has had considerably less and has had Moss/Welker for 1.5 seasons(23 games).
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There is an argument that Brady has done much less with his skill players than Manning has done with his.Moss with Brady = 1,493 yards, 23 TDs

Is that really significantly better than Moss did with CPep?

1,632 yards, 17 TDs

1,437 yards, 15 TDs

1,313 yards, 17 TDs

Not really... more TDs, but TDs are fluky

Wes Welker's YPR is identical no matter who is throwing to him, and when Brady went out and Cassel came in, Welker's stats were nearly identical, again outside of TDs.

Deion Branch (2nd rounder) has had injury issues, but his first year in SEA he had a higher YPR and nearly as many TDs (again fluky) as he had in his best season with Brady, in 2 fewer games.

Jabar Gaffney (high 2nd rounder) will likely put up better stats this year as a Bronco than he ever did as a Patriot.

Kelley Washington (3rd rounder) did far more with the Bengals and Baltimore than he ever did with NE.

--

On the other hand Brandon Stokely's only full season with the Colts

1,077 yards, 10 TDs

His next best season?

635 yards, 5 TDs

--

Look at what Manning is doing with no names like Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie. And if you really want to argue about high round picks playing with each QB go back and look at where the Pats WRs were drafted, even if they ended up on the Pats via FA. A number of them were 2nd rounders, and of course Moss was a first rounder. Benjamin Watson was a 1st rounder, so was Daniel Graham, both drafted by the Pats. Lawrence Maroney, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon, and Fred Taylor were all first round picks too. Kevin Faulk was a second rounder. Brady hasn't suffered from a lack of talent around him at all, that's a horribly weak argument.

--

As for the original question, I'm sure Manning would have loved to have the Pats defense throughout his career, but I don't think he'd trade careers with Brady for a second.

 
We have had this thread about 40 times in the past. Long story short, until recently, Manning IMO had better receiving options to play with, generally had a team more focused on offense than NE was, and played indoors.

Brady was on a team that predominently focused more on defense, until recently did not have great receiving options, played a more conservative brand of football, and clearly had more games impacted by the elements than Manning did.

We will never know how each team would have done with the other guy at QB. I suspect, however, that if we were to swap the QBs that Brady in IND would have similar passing totals to what Manning has posted in IND. Manning would likely have lower passing totals playing in NE. It's anyone's guess how many titles each would have in this hybrid situations.

 
Anarchy99 said:
We have had this thread about 40 times in the past. Long story short, until recently, Manning IMO had better receiving options to play with, generally had a team more focused on offense than NE was, and played indoors.

Brady was on a team that predominently focused more on defense, until recently did not have great receiving options, played a more conservative brand of football, and clearly had more games impacted by the elements than Manning did.

We will never know how each team would have done with the other guy at QB. I suspect, however, that if we were to swap the QBs that Brady in IND would have similar passing totals to what Manning has posted in IND. Manning would likely have lower passing totals playing in NE. It's anyone's guess how many titles each would have in this hybrid situations.
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While Manning's WRs have been more successful, it's really debatable whether he had better WRs, or is just a better QB. See my post above.As far as them trading places, and equally swapping stats? I'd argue that a comparison of how the WRs have performed w/wo Manning and w/wo Brady indicates that Manning makes his WRs much better than Brady makes his, and hence Manning would have better numbers than Brady no matter where he was. Give Manning a Randy Moss, and you'd see a WR break 2,000 yards IMO.

 
tdmills said:
Manning -Total first round picks- 7 (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)Total second round picks- 1 (1 WR)Tom Brady - Total first round picks- 3 (2 TE, 1 RB)Total second round picks- 4 (3 WR, 1 RB)Now granted this doesn't take into account trades or Free agent signings ( Moss and Welker).
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Well if you count FAManning -7 1st rounders (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)1 2nd rounders (1 WR)Brady -7 1st rounders (1 WR, 2 TE, 4 RB)6 2nd rounders (5 WR, 1 RB)Meaning the Pats have brought in more high round WRs and TEs for Brady to throw to than the Colts have for Manning to throw to. Seriously, this argument needs to be put to bed. Brady has not been short of offensive talent at all, and he's been on a much better coached team with far better defenses.
 
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The Comedian said:
Does it matter? One won't be mentioned without the other for the rest of time.
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Very true.I guess it comes down to this...Marino didn't need a ring to be mentioned among the all time greats, but Aikman did for sure.I think it'll be the same with Manning & Brady. Even without the SB ring, Manning would be considered an all time great, but without the rings, no one would consider Brady that great (outside of 2007).Regardless, 20 years down the road, I bet people will be having the same argument over which one had the better career. :goodposting:
 
switz said:
Anarchy99 said:
We have had this thread about 40 times in the past. Long story short, until recently, Manning IMO had better receiving options to play with, generally had a team more focused on offense than NE was, and played indoors.

Brady was on a team that predominently focused more on defense, until recently did not have great receiving options, played a more conservative brand of football, and clearly had more games impacted by the elements than Manning did.

We will never know how each team would have done with the other guy at QB. I suspect, however, that if we were to swap the QBs that Brady in IND would have similar passing totals to what Manning has posted in IND. Manning would likely have lower passing totals playing in NE. It's anyone's guess how many titles each would have in this hybrid situations.
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While Manning's WRs have been more successful, it's really debatable whether he had better WRs, or is just a better QB. See my post above.As far as them trading places, and equally swapping stats? I'd argue that a comparison of how the WRs have performed w/wo Manning and w/wo Brady indicates that Manning makes his WRs much better than Brady makes his, and hence Manning would have better numbers than Brady no matter where he was. Give Manning a Randy Moss, and you'd see a WR break 2,000 yards IMO.
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We can't easily conclude anything about the receivers for the reasons we can't adequately compare Brady and Manning. Two different teams playing in totally different systems and weather conditions for most of their careers. The 07 - present Pats system is more similar to what Manning has had for his entire career. IMO, Brady's statistical uptick has to do with a system more conducive to passing and an upgrade of his receivers.IMO, how the receivers faired elsewhere is somehat irrelevant given that moving to a new team and system could completely change how they were used. For example, Gaffney was mostly a 3rd or 4th receiver in NE. He started off very well this year but much higher on the depth chart. His numbers have dipped now that he's back to being more of a role player than a starter. Stokley is another example. You picked his one great year in IND. But he had 3 other years that were very ho-hum for the Colts.

Do you really think that if Brady were playing INDOORS in the dome with Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Stokley, and Edge that he would have had no 1,000 yard receivers like he did for many, many years in NE?

Do you think Manning would him video game numbers playing with Caldwell, Gabriel, Gaffney, and 90 year old Troy Brown as his WR corps in the cold and snow? Do you think those receivers would have had Harrison/Wayne numbers?

 
switz said:
I think it'll be the same with Manning & Brady. Even without the SB ring, Manning would be considered an all time great, but without the rings, no one would consider Brady that great (outside of 2007).
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That's because Manning is more of a regular season star, while Brady has been far more studly and clutch in the playoffs than Manning. I guess it comes down to if you would rather have a QB who usually putting up very good numbers in the regular season being money most of the time in the playoffs, or a QB who puts up ridiculous numbers in the regular season, but struggles more often than not in the postseason.
 
switz said:
tdmills said:
Manning -Total first round picks- 7 (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)Total second round picks- 1 (1 WR)Tom Brady - Total first round picks- 3 (2 TE, 1 RB)Total second round picks- 4 (3 WR, 1 RB)Now granted this doesn't take into account trades or Free agent signings ( Moss and Welker).
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Well if you count FAManning -7 1st rounders (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)1 2nd rounders (1 WR)Brady -7 1st rounders (1 WR, 2 TE, 4 RB)6 2nd rounders (5 WR, 1 RB)Meaning the Pats have brought in more high round WRs and TEs for Brady to throw to than the Colts have for Manning to throw to. Seriously, this argument needs to be put to bed. Brady has not been short of offensive talent at all, and he's been on a much better coached team with far better defenses.
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This is seriously flaVVed. You are counting guys that flopped in other locales and then were added to NE, not guys that they exclusively drafted. And some guys (ie Graham) were drafted to be a blocking TE not a receiving TE. Also, not every player that is highly drafted works out in the NFL. Sure, the Pats added David Terrell for awhile. Is it Brady's fault he flopped in the NFL?
 
So are we operating under the assumption that Wayne and Harrison were ever top 3 NFL receivers? I mean, they're both far better than dreg like Branch, Patten, etc, but I'm not all that convinced those guys would put up anywhere near the numbers they have on Indy if they were playing with an average quarterback.

 
Career?

I'll take Brady. The rings, the women, the TD record

If I owned an NFL team and the NFL threw everybody back into a pot and re-drafted?

I'll take Manning. For leadership and consistent performance.

 
Ghost Rider said:
switz said:
I think it'll be the same with Manning & Brady. Even without the SB ring, Manning would be considered an all time great, but without the rings, no one would consider Brady that great (outside of 2007).
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That's because Manning is more of a regular season star, while Brady has been far more studly and clutch in the playoffs than Manning. I guess it comes down to if you would rather have a QB who usually putting up very good numbers in the regular season being money most of the time in the playoffs, or a QB who puts up ridiculous numbers in the regular season, but struggles more often than not in the postseason.
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That depends on how you look at it. Brady has put up a few clunkers of his own in the playoffs, but when the defense is good enough to overcome it no one remembers those games.Even in their great run in 2007 Brady threw 3 INTs against the Chargers in the playoffs. But no one remembers because the defense only gave up 12 points and they won anyway.In Brady's first super bowl run he threw 1 touchdown in the ENTIRE playoffs, and threw for less than 150 yards in both the AFC championship game and the super bowl. Of course the defense never gave up more than 17 points in a playoff game that year (including the game against the Greatest Show on Turf). As a point of reference, Peyton has a win pct around 96% when his defense gives up 17 points or less, and is undefeated in the playoffs in those games. Indy has given up an average of 28pts per game in their playoff losses.That's not to say Brady hasn't been great in the playoffs, because he has. But Peyton won a Super Bowl the year he had a good defense too.
 
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Generally I think what people are waiting to hear is a breakdown of their respective skillsets.

1. Who is better at reading a defense?

2. Who is better at feeling the pressure and getting rid of the ball?

3. Who is better at touch passes?

4. Who is better at deep passes?

5. Who is better at eluding the rush?

6. Who runs a 2-minute drill better?

7. Who is better at staying focused and not getting frustrated or distracted?

Brady became a legend because of his 2001 campaign. Bledsoe is lost for the year, and this kid comes in out of nowhere to not just save the season but topple a very powerful Rams team in a huge super bowl upset. And especially the way they won that super bowl, too, with Brady leading the winning drive at the end. The composure and execution on the big stage like that was amazing. On the other hand, Manning was criticized for struggling in the playoffs. Even when the Colts won the super bowl, they did it with Manning having some mediocre playoff performances.

 
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I'm a Pats fan and I love Peyton Manning.

There was a time when I'd be defensive about this whole subject... not anymore.

Neither Manning or Brady has to do another thing to prove their greatness.

I've lived through Bird vs. Magic, Marino vs. Montana, Barry vs. Emmitt, Gretzky vs Lemieux, etc, etc, etc.

It doesn't matter.

You won't ever truly answer this question, you will only find/manipulate stats to support whatever side of the argument you've already decided you are on.

 
tdmills said:
Ghost Rider said:
dgreen said:
Would Brady trade his career for Manning's? No.Would Manning trade his career for Brady's? Yes.Answer: Brady
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That may be, as I am sure Manning would rather have three Super Bowl rings than one, but that one thing doesn't make Brady's career necessarily better. I am sure Dan Marino would love to have Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl ring, but that doesn't mean Dilfer had a better career.
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Did anyone read about the facts of draft picks given to Manning vs Brady.I think it deserves some discussion.
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I don't see how surrounding talent is relevant to comparing which of 2 careers is better. You're asking people to judge the actual career. Not judge the player based on the career they could have had under other circumstances. If you wanted the latter you should have made the thread about who is the better player.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
That depends on how you look at it. Brady has put up a few clunkers of his own in the playoffs, but when the defense is good enough to overcome it no one remembers those games.
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Tom Brady probably has the second-best playoff statistics of any QB ever save Joe Montana.
 
Anarchy99 said:
switz said:
tdmills said:
Manning -

Total first round picks- 7 (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)

Total second round picks- 1 (1 WR)

Tom Brady -

Total first round picks- 3 (2 TE, 1 RB)

Total second round picks- 4 (3 WR, 1 RB)

Now granted this doesn't take into account trades or Free agent signings ( Moss and Welker).
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Well if you count FAManning -

7 1st rounders (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)

1 2nd rounders (1 WR)

Brady -

7 1st rounders (1 WR, 2 TE, 4 RB)

6 2nd rounders (5 WR, 1 RB)

Meaning the Pats have brought in more high round WRs and TEs for Brady to throw to than the Colts have for Manning to throw to. Seriously, this argument needs to be put to bed. Brady has not been short of offensive talent at all, and he's been on a much better coached team with far better defenses.
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This is seriously flaVVed. You are counting guys that flopped in other locales and then were added to NE, not guys that they exclusively drafted. And some guys (ie Graham) were drafted to be a blocking TE not a receiving TE. Also, not every player that is highly drafted works out in the NFL. Sure, the Pats added David Terrell for awhile. Is it Brady's fault he flopped in the NFL?
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David, you can't have it both ways. If where they are drafted doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter, period.High round picks don't always work out, you're right. But if you want to use where a player was drafted as a measurement, then Brady has had MORE high round picks to throw to than Manning. In other words, he's had more opportunities to turn those players into "elite" receiving options.

And it also begs the question - why haven't the Pats (in the Belicheck/Brady era) had a high round WR work out for them? If Manning can turn Collie and Garcon into almost-stud WRs, why couldn't Brady do more with Bethel Johnson or Chad Jackson? Look what Manning did with Stokley, he's never come close to it elsewhere. Yet Branch left NE and has been pretty on par, Moss hasn't elevated his game considerably with Brady, Welker was statistically pretty much the same with Brady and Cassel.

If the WRs brought in were flops, then why were they drafted highly, and even more importantly, why did the Pats bring them in? It certainly wasn't because those WRs lacked talent!

Not really trying to be argumentative, but the talented cast argument is just silly...

 
Boy, this topic always seems to get the juices flowing in a lot of people. I've chimed in on this one in the past so I wont get too far into this again. IMO it's Brady. Regardless of who you choose 99% of the other QBs who ever played who would kill for either guys career.

 
kaa said:
Generally I think what people are waiting to hear is a breakdown of their respective skillsets.1. Who is better at reading a defense?2. Who is better at feeling the pressure and getting rid of the ball?3. Who is better at touch passes?4. Who is better at deep passes?5. Who is better at eluding the rush?6. Who runs a 2-minute drill better?7. Who is better at staying focused and not getting frustrated or distracted?Brady became a legend because of his 2001 campaign. Bledsoe is lost for the year, and this kid comes in out of nowhere to not just save the season but topple a very powerful Rams team in a huge super bowl upset. And especially the way they won that super bowl, too, with Brady leading the winning drive at the end. The composure and execution on the big stage like that was amazing. On the other hand, Manning was criticized for struggling in the playoffs. Even when the Colts won the super bowl, they did it with Manning having some mediocre playoff performances.
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I would give 5 or 6 of those to Manning, and until this year 7 would have been a lock for Brady without a doubt.I would say 1,2,3,4 are definitely Manning's.5 is probably a tie.6 I lean Brady's way, but it's close.7 is Brady's for sure.
 
Here's an interesting tidbit.

Brady has been the quarterback of New England for 7 years (not counting the injury year). During that 7 year span...

The Patriots won super bowls during the defense's 1st, 3rd, and 4th best years.

The Patriots won super bowls during Brady's 2nd, 5th, and 6th best years.

Which has the bigger impact on the Patriots' ability to win a Super Bowl? The play of the defense, or the play of Brady? The answer of course, is that both have a big impact. But as far as Super Bowl victories go the Patriots have gone the way of their defense, not the way of Brady. When the defense is great, they win super bowls. When Brady's play fluctuates, it has had much less of an effect.

 
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kaa said:
Generally I think what people are waiting to hear is a breakdown of their respective skillsets.

1. Who is better at reading a defense? Manning

2. Who is better at feeling the pressure and getting rid of the ball? Brady

3. Who is better at touch passes? Tie

4. Who is better at deep passes? Tie

5. Who is better at eluding the rush? Brady

6. Who runs a 2-minute drill better? Tie

7. Who is better at staying focused and not getting frustrated or distracted? Tie
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Not what you wanted I'm sure. :heart:
 
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switz said:
Anarchy99 said:
switz said:
tdmills said:
Manning -

Total first round picks- 7 (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)

Total second round picks- 1 (1 WR)

Tom Brady -

Total first round picks- 3 (2 TE, 1 RB)

Total second round picks- 4 (3 WR, 1 RB)

Now granted this doesn't take into account trades or Free agent signings ( Moss and Welker).
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Well if you count FAManning -

7 1st rounders (3 WR, 3 RB, 1 TE)

1 2nd rounders (1 WR)

Brady -

7 1st rounders (1 WR, 2 TE, 4 RB)

6 2nd rounders (5 WR, 1 RB)

Meaning the Pats have brought in more high round WRs and TEs for Brady to throw to than the Colts have for Manning to throw to. Seriously, this argument needs to be put to bed. Brady has not been short of offensive talent at all, and he's been on a much better coached team with far better defenses.
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This is seriously flaVVed. You are counting guys that flopped in other locales and then were added to NE, not guys that they exclusively drafted. And some guys (ie Graham) were drafted to be a blocking TE not a receiving TE. Also, not every player that is highly drafted works out in the NFL. Sure, the Pats added David Terrell for awhile. Is it Brady's fault he flopped in the NFL?
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David, you can't have it both ways. If where they are drafted doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter, period.High round picks don't always work out, you're right. But if you want to use where a player was drafted as a measurement, then Brady has had MORE high round picks to throw to than Manning. In other words, he's had more opportunities to turn those players into "elite" receiving options.

And it also begs the question - why haven't the Pats (in the Belicheck/Brady era) had a high round WR work out for them? If Manning can turn Collie and Garcon into almost-stud WRs, why couldn't Brady do more with Bethel Johnson or Chad Jackson? Look what Manning did with Stokley, he's never come close to it elsewhere. Yet Branch left NE and has been pretty on par, Moss hasn't elevated his game considerably with Brady, Welker was statistically pretty much the same with Brady and Cassel.

If the WRs brought in were flops, then why were they drafted highly, and even more importantly, why did the Pats bring them in? It certainly wasn't because those WRs lacked talent!

Not really trying to be argumentative, but the talented cast argument is just silly...
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All this really shows is that the Colts have done a better job matching receivers to their system and drafting guys that were a better fit. I'm not suggesting that the Colts offense is simple, but the Pats offense is VERY complicated. Not everyone that has come in gets it. They run a very dynamic offense that requires receivers to change on the fly several times within a play as it is ongoing. That's not for everyone.We've hashed, rehashed, and re-rehashed the names and the faces several times. Using your logic, the guys that left NE should have done gang busters once they left if they were so talented. But they haven't.

If Jackson and Johnson were so great . . . why did they do nothing anywhere else? Branch and Patten had a good game here or there, but they have not done much. Gabriel and Caldwell may be in the league somewhere . . . or maybe not. Gaffney has been a career depth guy and not a bonafide starter.

As for Manning, when has he ever had to work with mostly scrubs? Yes, he's taken a couple of rookies this year and had them fit in nicely, but he still has Wayne and Clark as seasoned vets. As you even pointed out, Gaffney and Stallworth were productive when Brady had Moss and Welker.

This year, NE has not been able to find a good fit for a 3rd receiver. Galloway didn't get it, Edelman got hurt, and the rest of the options haven't played much WR. Maybe one of the leftovers will start producing (although I suspect there will be a lot of WR4s and no true WR3 this year).

 
Choke said:
Had Manning cheated he would have more rings.Would he be willing to cheat to do that? Would he be willing to make that swap? Not so sure.He seems to take the "hard work" route. Not sure if he would trade out for the leg injury either.
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Really, you had to go there? You know you're the only one in the thread that felt they had to stoop to this level?
 
TD Ryan said:
I'm a Pats fan and I love Peyton Manning.There was a time when I'd be defensive about this whole subject... not anymore.Neither Manning or Brady has to do another thing to prove their greatness.I've lived through Bird vs. Magic, Marino vs. Montana, Barry vs. Emmitt, Gretzky vs Lemieux, etc, etc, etc.It doesn't matter.You won't ever truly answer this question, you will only find/manipulate stats to support whatever side of the argument you've already decided you are on.
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:thumbup: End of thread.
 
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