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Jahvid Best--Initial scouting report (1 Viewer)

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Footballguy
Jahvid Best has tremendous upside. He lacks the top end speed of CJ Spiller, but makes up for it with unbelievable vision, great lateral movement, jaw-dropping cuts, and the willingness to go up the middle. He averaged 6.1 ypc in 2009, after an amazing 8.1 ypc in 2008. Aside from his Pac-10 opponents, he's put up huge games against two Big Ten schools, an amazing performance against Miami in 2008 and also a bigtime game against Maryland.

Best has amazing athleticism and instincts as a running back. He has shown the ability to be the goalline back and excel at that role.

At 5'10, he doesn't have the 220 pound frame like an LT. He's currently at 195. Many seem to feel he can fill out a little more. This will be his biggest question mark going into the draft. Honestly, on tape he seems smaller than 5'10 (which isn't a bad thing). I've seen him compared to Warrick Dunn, but Dunn weighed 187. Best is already a good ten pounds past that and has more room to grow.

Injuries are also a concern, but as always, that's something you can't really predict. He had a ton of carries and a very healthy 2008 season. He also needs to stop diving for the endzone, as he'll take enough shots from other players.

I think Best is a much better RB than Spiller. (Spiller is a much better receiver and returner) Best isn't quite as fast though, and with the success of Chris Johnson, teams may draft Spiller high than they otherwise would. Best will make himself a ton of money if he can run a sub 4.4 40. I suspect it will be more around 4.5 because he doesn't seem to have that extra gear that Spiller does on tape.

If Jahvid Best can put on 5-10 pounds, I think he can be the primary back in a rotation, getting 18-20 carries. To me, he is an exciting player with a ton of upside who could very easily become one of the most exciting and explosive RB's in football.

At the combine, I'll pay close attention to his 40 time and his height/weight. I think he looks closer to 5'8 or 5'9 and more like a real running back than Spiller, who seems to be taller, and looks more like a slot receiver to me. I could be wrong here too, but it looks like Best has thicker legs in 2009 than he did in 2008, so I'll be very interested to see his weight at the combine and whether he's put on muscle.

If he lands on the right team, he'll be in the discussion for the 1.01 spot.

 
A couple things:

Best was a high school track star. He won the California State Championship in the 100m with a time of 10.31 seconds and finished second in the 200m with a time of 20.65 seconds. That's BLAZING speed. I agree that he doesn't have Spiller's third gear, but he will run a hell of a lot faster than 4.5. Mid 4.3 is probable. He is very, very fast.

Warrick Dunn might be listed at a lower weight, but I think he had a lot more bulk in his thighs and was more powerful. I was one of the people who compared Best to Dunn, but just because Jahvid has a higher listed weight doesn't mean he runs bigger.

 
A couple things:Best was a high school track star. He won the California State Championship in the 100m with a time of 10.31 seconds and finished second in the 200m with a time of 20.65 seconds. That's BLAZING speed. I agree that he doesn't have Spiller's third gear, but he will run a hell of a lot faster than 4.5. Mid 4.3 is probable. He is very, very fast. Warrick Dunn might be listed at a lower weight, but I think he had a lot more bulk in his thighs and was more powerful. I was one of the people who compared Best to Dunn, but just because Jahvid has a higher listed weight doesn't mean he runs bigger.
Was it you or SSOG that said the prototypical RB is 5' 10" and 190, +\- an and 5 pounds? Best seems to fit.
 
A couple things:Best was a high school track star. He won the California State Championship in the 100m with a time of 10.31 seconds and finished second in the 200m with a time of 20.65 seconds. That's BLAZING speed. I agree that he doesn't have Spiller's third gear, but he will run a hell of a lot faster than 4.5. Mid 4.3 is probable. He is very, very fast. Warrick Dunn might be listed at a lower weight, but I think he had a lot more bulk in his thighs and was more powerful. I was one of the people who compared Best to Dunn, but just because Jahvid has a higher listed weight doesn't mean he runs bigger.
Was it you or SSOG that said the prototypical RB is 5' 10" and 190, +\- an and 5 pounds? Best seems to fit.
No. For a 5'10" back I would hope to see a weight between 215-230, but there are some lighter guys doing pretty well right now.
 
I like Best a lot, for reasons similar to that of what the OP says. One potential problem i see in him is he looks skinny for someone listed at 195lbs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he weighs in under 190.

Either way i like him more than Spiller since Best has shown the ability to run between the tackles and has been very successful doing so. Having said that, i find it quite worrisome how small and skinny he looks, and i'm also think that its possible that Best may run scared after his gruesome injury. Even taking into consideration his faults, i'd be fully comfortable drafting him within the top 5 picks of a ff draft.

 
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I love what Best brings to the table. I see him and Spiller as damn near identical as far as size and a track speed. I only worried about his durability. Otherwise he's 1a or 1b in my book.

 
I prefer Best to Spiller. He had much better instincts and is more elusive. The consensus may like Spiller better, which is why you should trade down and take Dez Bryant or Best.

 
I prefer Best to Spiller. He had much better instincts and is more elusive. The consensus may like Spiller better, which is why you should trade down and take Dez Bryant or Best.
There won't be any trading down to get Bryant, especially in PPR leagues. He is the consenous 1.01 in PPR, and probably no lower than 1.4 in most non-PPR leagues.
 
I prefer Best to Spiller. He had much better instincts and is more elusive. The consensus may like Spiller better, which is why you should trade down and take Dez Bryant or Best.
There won't be any trading down to get Bryant, especially in PPR leagues. He is the consenous 1.01 in PPR, and probably no lower than 1.4 in most non-PPR leagues.
Consensus 1.1 in PPR? I wouldn't say that. I'm taking in Spiller in some leagues that I own 1.1. I think it's based entirely on need between on those two. Dwyer landing in a primo situation could also move him up for me.
 
I prefer Best to Spiller. He had much better instincts and is more elusive. The consensus may like Spiller better, which is why you should trade down and take Dez Bryant or Best.
There won't be any trading down to get Bryant, especially in PPR leagues. He is the consenous 1.01 in PPR, and probably no lower than 1.4 in most non-PPR leagues.
Consensus 1.1 in PPR? I wouldn't say that. I'm taking in Spiller in some leagues that I own 1.1. I think it's based entirely on need between on those two. Dwyer landing in a primo situation could also move him up for me.
Now you two promised to take Bryant and Spiller ahead of me, so don't confuse me by doing something else. :thumbdown:
 
Jahvid Best has tremendous upside. He lacks the top end speed of CJ Spiller, but makes up for it with unbelievable vision, great lateral movement, jaw-dropping cuts, and the willingness to go up the middle. He averaged 6.1 ypc in 2009, after an amazing 8.1 ypc in 2008. Aside from his Pac-10 opponents, he's put up huge games against two Big Ten schools, an amazing performance against Miami in 2008 and also a bigtime game against Maryland.

Best has amazing athleticism and instincts as a running back. He has shown the ability to be the goalline back and excel at that role.

At 5'10, he doesn't have the 220 pound frame like an LT. He's currently at 195. Many seem to feel he can fill out a little more. This will be his biggest question mark going into the draft. Honestly, on tape he seems smaller than 5'10 (which isn't a bad thing). I've seen him compared to Warrick Dunn, but Dunn weighed 187. Best is already a good ten pounds past that and has more room to grow.

Injuries are also a concern, but as always, that's something you can't really predict. He had a ton of carries and a very healthy 2008 season. He also needs to stop diving for the endzone, as he'll take enough shots from other players.
You do know that he dislocated his elbow in 2008 in right?
 
A couple things:Best was a high school track star. He won the California State Championship in the 100m with a time of 10.31 seconds and finished second in the 200m with a time of 20.65 seconds. That's BLAZING speed. I agree that he doesn't have Spiller's third gear, but he will run a hell of a lot faster than 4.5. Mid 4.3 is probable. He is very, very fast. Warrick Dunn might be listed at a lower weight, but I think he had a lot more bulk in his thighs and was more powerful. I was one of the people who compared Best to Dunn, but just because Jahvid has a higher listed weight doesn't mean he runs bigger.
If he runs something like a 4.35, his stock will soar.From the tape, he doesn't seem as fast as Spiller, so it will be interesting to see the difference in their 40 times.
 
I love what Best brings to the table. I see him and Spiller as damn near identical as far as size and a track speed. I only worried about his durability. Otherwise he's 1a or 1b in my book.
Yep. Despite many trying to differentiate the two, I personally don't see it, splitting hairs, imo. If one is available, I pick him in a draft over any other player. They are 1ab above Dez for me. If both are available I'll go with who I perceive to have the better situation. Here's an odd observation likely meaningless: Best has better cardio. As for who is faster, I think that too is too close to call. If they lined up and ran 10 40s they'd both win a few.
 
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It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.

 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I agree. Best is a pure running back and is very good at what he does. He consistently makes people miss, and has lateral movement that makes my jaw drop. I really can't say that there is a person in the NFL right now that has the juking and cutting ability that Best has. What that means in the NFL, we'll see.But the combination of "speed and handling" :goodposting: that Best has, gives him a very high ceiling.
 
I love what Best brings to the table. I see him and Spiller as damn near identical as far as size and a track speed. I only worried about his durability. Otherwise he's 1a or 1b in my book.
Yep. Despite many trying to differentiate the two, I personally don't see it, splitting hairs, imo. If one is available, I pick him in a draft over any other player. They are 1ab above Dez for me. If both are available I'll go with who I perceive to have the better situation. Here's an odd observation likely meaningless: Best has better cardio. As for who is faster, I think that too is too close to call. If they lined up and ran 10 40s they'd both win a few.
I really like them both as well. If Dwyer hits a great situation he will be in the mix as well. Though I would take Bryant over all of them.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
Is this like a "Michael Bennett vs. LaDainian Thomlinson" sort of thing?
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
I'm still of the belief that Reggie Bush has the talent to be very successful, he just doesn't have the desire. If he would get the 3-4 yard gains, he would succeed. That's one thing that makes Chris Johnson successful. He takes what he can get, and then when the big one opens up, he takes it to the house. That's why he broke the all-purpose record and 2k yards. If he consistently danced and looked for the big play, he wouldn't have done either of those things.Spiller and Best will have to prove their ability to take what's given them. That's not something we'll be 100% on until the season starts. I think Best has already proven it in college, but Spiller certainly has the tools to succeed if he runs with the right frame of mind and doesn't continue to look for the big play.And as you said, the teams that draft these two, and how they use them will be huge.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
Is this like a "Michael Bennett vs. LaDainian Thomlinson" sort of thing?
To be fair, I have watched Spiller through 2008 and I have seen Best in 2009. However, if what I see from Spiller in '09 hasn't changed much from '08 then I would probably say it's a little like that.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
Not that it matters now, but fwiw, I observed and recorded every single one of Reggie Bush's 200 carries as a junior at SC. 99 of them were between the tackles. He had some big holes, but not always. It's a mystery to me, and I suspect Waldman too, exactly what happened to Reggie in the NFL as an RB. I drafted an article that offseason that was never posted called Reggie Bush Up The Middle that went through each game and showed him running decisively between the tackles and with excellent power. He still flashes it in NO occasionally. Mystery to me why he isn't much better, but I'm not dwelling on it re: Spiller and Best. I saw several runs where Spiller decides to keep it, or cut it, inside and looks fine doing it. I think it's an 'easy generalization' with a speed burner to suggest he doesn't run between the tackles. It would be foolish for him to always do so, and of course ,most highlights show big plays, which almost always end up on a sideline, Peterson and CJohnson included. The patience issue I'll agree with, but I have no reason to believe it is a major issue. Cal has better offensive coaching, imo. Going back to Echemandu Cal backs have been patient behind that well trained OL.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
Not that it matters now, but fwiw, I observed and recorded every single one of Reggie Bush's 200 carries as a junior at SC. 99 of them were between the tackles. He had some big holes, but not always. It's a mystery to me, and I suspect Waldman too, exactly what happened to Reggie in the NFL as an RB. I drafted an article that offseason that was never posted called Reggie Bush Up The Middle that went through each game and showed him running decisively between the tackles and with excellent power. He still flashes it in NO occasionally. Mystery to me why he isn't much better, but I'm not dwelling on it re: Spiller and Best. I saw several runs where Spiller decides to keep it, or cut it, inside and looks fine doing it. I think it's an 'easy generalization' with a speed burner to suggest he doesn't run between the tackles. It would be foolish for him to always do so, and of course ,most highlights show big plays, which almost always end up on a sideline, Peterson and CJohnson included. The patience issue I'll agree with, but I have no reason to believe it is a major issue. Cal has better offensive coaching, imo. Going back to Echemandu Cal backs have been patient behind that well trained OL.
:shrug: I'm still not entirely convinced that Bush is a total bust. Now he's a bust in terms of where New Orleans drafted him....but he has done alot of good things. He's obviously extremely talented, and makes some big plays.But New Orleans has taken him completely out of their primary offense and turned him into a gadget player. It's worked well, as their offense is awesome. But I think given another situation where he is a much bigger part of the offense, Bush can possibly still make a big impact.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
Not that it matters now, but fwiw, I observed and recorded every single one of Reggie Bush's 200 carries as a junior at SC. 99 of them were between the tackles. He had some big holes, but not always. It's a mystery to me, and I suspect Waldman too, exactly what happened to Reggie in the NFL as an RB. I drafted an article that offseason that was never posted called Reggie Bush Up The Middle that went through each game and showed him running decisively between the tackles and with excellent power. He still flashes it in NO occasionally. Mystery to me why he isn't much better, but I'm not dwelling on it re: Spiller and Best. I saw several runs where Spiller decides to keep it, or cut it, inside and looks fine doing it. I think it's an 'easy generalization' with a speed burner to suggest he doesn't run between the tackles. It would be foolish for him to always do so, and of course ,most highlights show big plays, which almost always end up on a sideline, Peterson and CJohnson included. The patience issue I'll agree with, but I have no reason to believe it is a major issue. Cal has better offensive coaching, imo. Going back to Echemandu Cal backs have been patient behind that well trained OL.
Well, that's why I also added the better OLine bit. His holes at USC were usually huge. I'm not doubting your findings though. I would opine that the difference in the NFL is that that the huge holes at USC hid his subpar "short vision". If you don't have to use your short vision much because the holes are huge, then you can run decisively between the holes. You make a good point about Spiller as well regarding the run to the sidelines. The question for someone like Spiller is whether he will be decisive and go to the hole and gain 4 yards in the NFL or whether he will lose 2 yards trying to turn everything outside. You can make an argument that because he is so fast that it's in his (and Clemson's) best interest for him to bounce it outside in college. It leads to more of a chance of success. I remember watching the bowl game live on his TD run late in the game and thinking "why are you bouncing outside, there are two defenders there". Then he just obliterated them around the corner and scored without really being touched. So in reality, it was a good decision for him to do that. The $64,000 question is whether or how long until he learns to do that less in the NFL?
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
Not that it matters now, but fwiw, I observed and recorded every single one of Reggie Bush's 200 carries as a junior at SC. 99 of them were between the tackles. He had some big holes, but not always. It's a mystery to me, and I suspect Waldman too, exactly what happened to Reggie in the NFL as an RB. I drafted an article that offseason that was never posted called Reggie Bush Up The Middle that went through each game and showed him running decisively between the tackles and with excellent power. He still flashes it in NO occasionally. Mystery to me why he isn't much better, but I'm not dwelling on it re: Spiller and Best. I saw several runs where Spiller decides to keep it, or cut it, inside and looks fine doing it. I think it's an 'easy generalization' with a speed burner to suggest he doesn't run between the tackles. It would be foolish for him to always do so, and of course ,most highlights show big plays, which almost always end up on a sideline, Peterson and CJohnson included. The patience issue I'll agree with, but I have no reason to believe it is a major issue. Cal has better offensive coaching, imo. Going back to Echemandu Cal backs have been patient behind that well trained OL.
Well, that's why I also added the better OLine bit. His holes at USC were usually huge. I'm not doubting your findings though. I would opine that the difference in the NFL is that that the huge holes at USC hid his subpar "short vision". If you don't have to use your short vision much because the holes are huge, then you can run decisively between the holes. You make a good point about Spiller as well regarding the run to the sidelines. The question for someone like Spiller is whether he will be decisive and go to the hole and gain 4 yards in the NFL or whether he will lose 2 yards trying to turn everything outside. You can make an argument that because he is so fast that it's in his (and Clemson's) best interest for him to bounce it outside in college. It leads to more of a chance of success. I remember watching the bowl game live on his TD run late in the game and thinking "why are you bouncing outside, there are two defenders there". Then he just obliterated them around the corner and scored without really being touched. So in reality, it was a good decision for him to do that. The $64,000 question is whether or how long until he learns to do that less in the NFL?
Very few in the NFL have the speed to take it outside. Bush definetely doesn't. Chris Johnson can basically do anything, because no one in the NFL is as fast as he is.I think Spiller will do better than Bush because he has more speed. But Best looks better than Spiller, because he already has the inside game worked out, and is much better at making people miss and breaking tackles, at least from what I've seen.
 
A couple things:Best was a high school track star. He won the California State Championship in the 100m with a time of 10.31 seconds and finished second in the 200m with a time of 20.65 seconds. That's BLAZING speed. I agree that he doesn't have Spiller's third gear, but he will run a hell of a lot faster than 4.5. Mid 4.3 is probable. He is very, very fast. Warrick Dunn might be listed at a lower weight, but I think he had a lot more bulk in his thighs and was more powerful. I was one of the people who compared Best to Dunn, but just because Jahvid has a higher listed weight doesn't mean he runs bigger.
If he runs something like a 4.35, his stock will soar.From the tape, he doesn't seem as fast as Spiller, so it will be interesting to see the difference in their 40 times.
Spiller: 100m 10.22Best: 100m 10.31CJ3: 100m 10.38I believe these are their personal best.
 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
Not that it matters now, but fwiw, I observed and recorded every single one of Reggie Bush's 200 carries as a junior at SC. 99 of them were between the tackles. He had some big holes, but not always. It's a mystery to me, and I suspect Waldman too, exactly what happened to Reggie in the NFL as an RB. I drafted an article that offseason that was never posted called Reggie Bush Up The Middle that went through each game and showed him running decisively between the tackles and with excellent power. He still flashes it in NO occasionally. Mystery to me why he isn't much better, but I'm not dwelling on it re: Spiller and Best. I saw several runs where Spiller decides to keep it, or cut it, inside and looks fine doing it. I think it's an 'easy generalization' with a speed burner to suggest he doesn't run between the tackles. It would be foolish for him to always do so, and of course ,most highlights show big plays, which almost always end up on a sideline, Peterson and CJohnson included. The patience issue I'll agree with, but I have no reason to believe it is a major issue. Cal has better offensive coaching, imo. Going back to Echemandu Cal backs have been patient behind that well trained OL.
Well, that's why I also added the better OLine bit. His holes at USC were usually huge. I'm not doubting your findings though. I would opine that the difference in the NFL is that that the huge holes at USC hid his subpar "short vision". If you don't have to use your short vision much because the holes are huge, then you can run decisively between the holes. You make a good point about Spiller as well regarding the run to the sidelines. The question for someone like Spiller is whether he will be decisive and go to the hole and gain 4 yards in the NFL or whether he will lose 2 yards trying to turn everything outside. You can make an argument that because he is so fast that it's in his (and Clemson's) best interest for him to bounce it outside in college. It leads to more of a chance of success. I remember watching the bowl game live on his TD run late in the game and thinking "why are you bouncing outside, there are two defenders there". Then he just obliterated them around the corner and scored without really being touched. So in reality, it was a good decision for him to do that. The $64,000 question is whether or how long until he learns to do that less in the NFL?
I like Bush for the reasons Chaos mentioned. I saw a player who I thought had the fundamental skills and vision to be a Gale Sayers-type player. I would say I have learned more in the past three years about what to watch for on inside running plays and I think he would be a good player to do a "rewind" on and see if I missed something in hindsight. At this point I would still feel comfortable saying Bush changed his style. This was the same class with a back like DeAngelo Williams who I rated higher than everyone but Bush despite his smallish stature so I'm not seeing anything obvious that I missed in terms of his style. I think I'll try to take some time to look at this further before the preseason. However, I'm convinced Bush got too big-play focused in New Orleans and regressed as an inside runner. At this stage of the game, I think Bush would be better used as a wide receiver and converted completely away from RB. He has the hands, body control, and enough route skills to develop into a really decent starting WR.
 
I don't care if Best is a full .1 slower than Spiller, he should still be drafted ahead of Spiller.

 
It seems this thread has started with a lot of "sports car" talk about speed an handling. Both have more than enough of it. Best knows how to use his talents better as a running back. He has more patience, makes better reads at the line of scrimmage, and makes more mature decisions as a runner that will pay off when running between the tackles in the NFL.
I can agree with this, although I think the idea that Spiller is bad between the tackles is overstated. He doesn't run between the tackles as well as Best but he does seem to run in traffic out on the edge reasonably well. I would say that he isn't as patient at the LOS as he'll need to be in the NFL, but I think he's different than Reggie Bush. We almost never saw Reggie Bush run in traffic at USC because they had LenDale for that and because his O-Line and really the whole team was a lot better than the competition. Neither of those things are as true with Spiller and he does get some work between the tackles or in traffic. He just needs to learn to be more patient and make better reads there. I think he has a chance to be much more "useful", if you will, as a RB who gets handoffs than Bush has been for NO. But I'm sure any team that drafts Spiller will try to get him in space as much as possible.
I've watched a lot of Spiller and agree with this 100%, many are jumping on the negative bandwagon without doing some serious homework of their own. There were many occasions in which there were no lanes to run and he simply took it to the outside. Seems that the OL was getting over powered at times.
 
Maybe Chris Johnson's reaction time is just slow. The timed 100m starts with the bell.

The 40 time he ran at the combine starts when he takes off. I think that's more of a true test of speed, as some might just not be as good out of the blocks.

 
Spiller: 100m 10.22Best: 100m 10.31CJ3: 100m 10.38I believe these are their personal best.
Man, those times are blazing...what are these kids doing these days? Amazing.
They are obviously eating something that wasn't available for us when we were in school, lol.
Add to that the Florida Boys:Jeff Demps: 10.01 100m (olympic trials)Chris Rainey: 10.40 100mNoel Devine: 10.4 100mDifferent breed of RB coming into the NFL....that should be the real discussion item here. How will defenses evolve to combat this?
 
Jahvid Best has tremendous upside. He lacks the top end speed of CJ Spiller, but makes up for it with unbelievable vision, great lateral movement, jaw-dropping cuts, and the willingness to go up the middle. He averaged 6.1 ypc in 2009, after an amazing 8.1 ypc in 2008. Aside from his Pac-10 opponents, he's put up huge games against two Big Ten schools, an amazing performance against Miami in 2008 and also a bigtime game against Maryland.

Best has amazing athleticism and instincts as a running back. He has shown the ability to be the goalline back and excel at that role.

At 5'10, he doesn't have the 220 pound frame like an LT. He's currently at 195. Many seem to feel he can fill out a little more. This will be his biggest question mark going into the draft. Honestly, on tape he seems smaller than 5'10 (which isn't a bad thing). I've seen him compared to Warrick Dunn, but Dunn weighed 187. Best is already a good ten pounds past that and has more room to grow.

Injuries are also a concern, but as always, that's something you can't really predict. He had a ton of carries and a very healthy 2008 season. He also needs to stop diving for the endzone, as he'll take enough shots from other players.
You do know that he dislocated his elbow in 2008 in right?
On January 15, 2009 Best underwent surgery to tighten a ligament that had been injured when he dislocated his left elbow against Colorado State on September 27, 2008. This was followed up by foot surgery on January 23 to relieve the irritation of an extra bone that was caused when Best bruised his foot halfway through the 2008 season. He missed spring football practice as a result.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahvid_Best
 
Spiller: 100m 10.22Best: 100m 10.31CJ3: 100m 10.38I believe these are their personal best.
Man, those times are blazing...what are these kids doing these days? Amazing.
They are obviously eating something that wasn't available for us when we were in school, lol.
Add to that the Florida Boys:Jeff Demps: 10.01 100m (olympic trials)Chris Rainey: 10.40 100mNoel Devine: 10.4 100mDifferent breed of RB coming into the NFL....that should be the real discussion item here. How will defenses evolve to combat this?
INSANE!
 
The only problem I see with Best (applies to Spiller too) is if he weighs in at less than 194+ lbs. If he tips the scales at around 185 (or less), then I'm going to have to place him in the Darren Sproles category of a nice player but simply not big enough to handle a quality workload. Guys like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, J.Charles, and Felix at least were right around 200 lbs entering the league, anything less seriously adds to my skepticism.

Otherwise, he is a phenomenally talented RB on the level certainly of a Ray Rice, Charles, and even Chris Johnson. His lateral agility (cuts/balance), athleticism, quickness, vision, and football instincts are top-notch, as good as anyone in the NFL. He will make some very big plays in the NFL, no matter his size, but his size will dictate how many touches he will get. If it is believed that he can carry an additional 8-12 lbs without losing any speed/quickness, then he should be very highly coveted, IMO, based on his overall skill set. Still a lot to be determined with this entire RB class, as Best could rank anywhere from #1 to #4 out of the current consensus Top 4, IMHO.

 
Spiller: 100m 10.22Best: 100m 10.31CJ3: 100m 10.38I believe these are their personal best.
Man, those times are blazing...what are these kids doing these days? Amazing.
They are obviously eating something that wasn't available for us when we were in school, lol.
Add to that the Florida Boys:Jeff Demps: 10.01 100m (olympic trials)Chris Rainey: 10.40 100mNoel Devine: 10.4 100mDifferent breed of RB coming into the NFL....that should be the real discussion item here. How will defenses evolve to combat this?
INSANE!
My favorite sleeper WR also attended Clemson, beat CJ in the ACC 60 meter final and finished 5th in the nation in the 100 at 10.33 -- Jacoby Ford.
 
The only problem I see with Best (applies to Spiller too) is if he weighs in at less than 194+ lbs. If he tips the scales at around 185 (or less), then I'm going to have to place him in the Darren Sproles category of a nice player but simply not big enough to handle a quality workload. Guys like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, J.Charles, and Felix at least were right around 200 lbs entering the league, anything less seriously adds to my skepticism. Otherwise, he is a phenomenally talented RB on the level certainly of a Ray Rice, Charles, and even Chris Johnson. His lateral agility (cuts/balance), athleticism, quickness, vision, and football instincts are top-notch, as good as anyone in the NFL. He will make some very big plays in the NFL, no matter his size, but his size will dictate how many touches he will get. If it is believed that he can carry an additional 8-12 lbs without losing any speed/quickness, then he should be very highly coveted, IMO, based on his overall skill set. Still a lot to be determined with this entire RB class, as Best could rank anywhere from #1 to #4 out of the current consensus Top 4, IMHO.
My guess is Spiller is a solid 200-205 while Best may be pretty light. I agree it changes things if either comes in under 195. Spiller not only has longer legs, his are thicker and he has a bigger butt.
 
The only problem I see with Best (applies to Spiller too) is if he weighs in at less than 194+ lbs. If he tips the scales at around 185 (or less), then I'm going to have to place him in the Darren Sproles category of a nice player but simply not big enough to handle a quality workload. Guys like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, J.Charles, and Felix at least were right around 200 lbs entering the league, anything less seriously adds to my skepticism.

Otherwise, he is a phenomenally talented RB on the level certainly of a Ray Rice, Charles, and even Chris Johnson. His lateral agility (cuts/balance), athleticism, quickness, vision, and football instincts are top-notch, as good as anyone in the NFL. He will make some very big plays in the NFL, no matter his size, but his size will dictate how many touches he will get. If it is believed that he can carry an additional 8-12 lbs without losing any speed/quickness, then he should be very highly coveted, IMO, based on his overall skill set. Still a lot to be determined with this entire RB class, as Best could rank anywhere from #1 to #4 out of the current consensus Top 4, IMHO.
My guess is Spiller is a solid 200-205 while Best may be pretty light. I agree it changes things if either comes in under 195. Spiller not only has longer legs, his are thicker and he has a bigger butt.
Really, I don't think they're considerably thicker; at least, not enough to make a huge difference. I tried to find some comparable poses.Spiller right side:

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/MIw3xDoMpG1...qj/C.J.+Spiller

Best right side:

http://www.celebson.com/wp-content/uploads...d_best-4672.jpg

Spiller front:

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2009/11/28...er--300x300.jpg

Best front:

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-conte...id-best-p11.jpg

Spiller left side:

http://clemsonpodcasts.files.wordpress.com...ler-heisman.jpg

Best left side:

http://nimg.sulekha.com/Sports/original700...19-16-40-13.jpg

Edited to ensure 2009 pics, thanks BigTex.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The only problem I see with Best (applies to Spiller too) is if he weighs in at less than 194+ lbs. If he tips the scales at around 185 (or less), then I'm going to have to place him in the Darren Sproles category of a nice player but simply not big enough to handle a quality workload. Guys like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, J.Charles, and Felix at least were right around 200 lbs entering the league, anything less seriously adds to my skepticism.

Otherwise, he is a phenomenally talented RB on the level certainly of a Ray Rice, Charles, and even Chris Johnson. His lateral agility (cuts/balance), athleticism, quickness, vision, and football instincts are top-notch, as good as anyone in the NFL. He will make some very big plays in the NFL, no matter his size, but his size will dictate how many touches he will get. If it is believed that he can carry an additional 8-12 lbs without losing any speed/quickness, then he should be very highly coveted, IMO, based on his overall skill set. Still a lot to be determined with this entire RB class, as Best could rank anywhere from #1 to #4 out of the current consensus Top 4, IMHO.
My guess is Spiller is a solid 200-205 while Best may be pretty light. I agree it changes things if either comes in under 195. Spiller not only has longer legs, his are thicker and he has a bigger butt.
Really, I don't think they're considerably thicker; at least, not enough to make a huge difference. I tried to find some comparable poses.Spiller, left profile, avoiding tackle:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bMSbJa3Lh68z/610x.jpg

Best, left profile, avoiding tackle:

http://www.dailycal.org/photos/20080831/10...ball.YAN-02.jpg

Spiller, right profile:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cUTfyRL0U7w/Suuc...cj-spiller2.jpg

Best, right profile:

http://shuttersounds.thedailynathan.com/wp...crop_small1.jpg

Spiller, front view:

http://media.scout.com/media/image/58/587541.jpg

Best, front view:

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/JahvidBest.jpg
If I'm not mistaken that first pick of Spiller was his junior year, he weighed 184 and gained 10 lbs for his senior year. That's a huge difference in weight but he and Best weigh the same give or take a pound or two.
 
The only problem I see with Best (applies to Spiller too) is if he weighs in at less than 194+ lbs. If he tips the scales at around 185 (or less), then I'm going to have to place him in the Darren Sproles category of a nice player but simply not big enough to handle a quality workload. Guys like Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, J.Charles, and Felix at least were right around 200 lbs entering the league, anything less seriously adds to my skepticism.

Otherwise, he is a phenomenally talented RB on the level certainly of a Ray Rice, Charles, and even Chris Johnson. His lateral agility (cuts/balance), athleticism, quickness, vision, and football instincts are top-notch, as good as anyone in the NFL. He will make some very big plays in the NFL, no matter his size, but his size will dictate how many touches he will get. If it is believed that he can carry an additional 8-12 lbs without losing any speed/quickness, then he should be very highly coveted, IMO, based on his overall skill set. Still a lot to be determined with this entire RB class, as Best could rank anywhere from #1 to #4 out of the current consensus Top 4, IMHO.
My guess is Spiller is a solid 200-205 while Best may be pretty light. I agree it changes things if either comes in under 195. Spiller not only has longer legs, his are thicker and he has a bigger butt.
Really, I don't think they're considerably thicker; at least, not enough to make a huge difference. I tried to find some comparable poses.Spiller, left profile, avoiding tackle:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bMSbJa3Lh68z/610x.jpg

Best, left profile, avoiding tackle:

http://www.dailycal.org/photos/20080831/10...ball.YAN-02.jpg

Spiller, right profile:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cUTfyRL0U7w/Suuc...cj-spiller2.jpg

Best, right profile:

http://shuttersounds.thedailynathan.com/wp...crop_small1.jpg

Spiller, front view:

http://media.scout.com/media/image/58/587541.jpg

Best, front view:

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/JahvidBest.jpg
Yes, Spiller is thicker.
 
Please leave Rainey and Demps out of the discussion. Those two are extremely overrated. Two track stars on a football field. Neither one ever does much of anything against good defenses.

I realize they haven't had alot of opportunities with Tebow hogging all the action, but both guys make their "reputation" with alot of big plays against terrible teams.

 
Please leave Rainey and Demps out of the discussion. Those two are extremely overrated. Two track stars on a football field. Neither one ever does much of anything against good defenses.I realize they haven't had alot of opportunities with Tebow hogging all the action, but both guys make their "reputation" with alot of big plays against terrible teams.
I thought the discussion I was referring to was speed at the RB position....so just adding some other fast college RB's. Never said they were the next CJ3 or anything. Just that NFL defenses may have to change schemes to deal with this new breed of situational RB.
 
Spiller: 100m 10.22

Best: 100m 10.31

CJ3: 100m 10.38

I believe these are their personal best.

Man, those times are blazing...what are these kids doing these days? Amazing.

They are obviously eating something that wasn't available for us when we were in school, lol.

Add to that the Florida Boys:

Jeff Demps: 10.01 100m (olympic trials)

Chris Rainey: 10.40 100m

Noel Devine: 10.4 100m

Different breed of RB coming into the NFL....that should be the real discussion item here. How will defenses evolve to combat this?

INSANE!

My favorite sleeper WR also attended Clemson, beat CJ in the ACC 60 meter final and finished 5th in the nation in the 100 at 10.33 -- Jacoby Ford.

Dude!

:popcorn:
 
Detroit got their version of Marshall Faulk IMO with this pick. I've got him as the #1 RB in this class. Won't argue anyone ranking Matthews higher. [Probably the safer choice. I think Best is the hit it out of the park pick]

If we're talking fantasy football, I don't even think it's close between Best and Spiller. I expect the latter to be a ST dynamo and solid receiving option. I have big time questions about his rushing ability. Best looks a lot more natural running the ball, changing directions. Best's vision is elite and has that innate ability that Faulk did to set guys up for the whiff.

I feel Spiller is superior in one facet: Greater top end speed [which will benefit him on returns]. Best must work on his pass blocking, as most rookies do, as well. Every other aspect that I'd look for in a running back, I'd take Best over Spiller. The landing spots of each was just icing on the cake to me.

Just give up the end zone leap. You still only get 6 points.

 
Here is my breakdown of Best's game v. Maryland:

Jahvid Best, RB California

5'10 195 pounds, Junior (# 4)

University of California Bio

2008 Stats: 194 carries, 1580 yards (8.1 avg) 15 tds, 27 receptions 246 yards(9.1 avg) 1 td

RUNNING THE FOOTBALL

Game Stats: 10 carries 137 yards (13.7 avg)

Carry 1: 5 yard gain

Formation: I formation

Counter trap, right guard pulled left . . . did not dance, hit the hole and went straight ahead . . . did not see huge cutback lane to right . . .

Carry 2: 73 yard gain, TOUCHDOWN

Formation: Single back

Inside handoff . . . very quick sharp cuts, fluid, was not touched through line, but made some nice reads while breaking free . . . towards the end of the run was going to be tackled by the DB, but slowed up to let his blocker get in front of him . . .

Carry 3: 2 yard gain, TOUCHDOWN

Formation: I formation, two tight ends

Inside handoff . . . Jumped before the line of scrimmage (about 4 yards) into the endzone . . . showed tremendous leaping ability

Carry 4: 2 yard loss

Missed this carry, ESPN skipped to the 2nd quarter.

Carry 5: 4 yard gain

Formation: I Formation

Handoff to the right between guard and tackle . . . Nice cut inside but could not get going again . . . tackled easily . . .

Carry 6: 6 yard gain

Formation: I formation

Inside handoff . . . did a nice job cutting off his fullbacks block . . . once again showed nice vision inside, and made several subtle cuts to gain extra yardage, no wasted motion. . . easily brought down when defender got to him.

Carry 7: No Gain

Formation: I formation

Stretch right . . . defense stood up fullback . . . tried to jump and got drilled.

Carry 8: 40 yard gain

Formation: I formation

Give to the right in which best cut all of the way across the field . . . Made several cuts, although not very sharp, was sized up by the safety behind the line on the cutback, but his qb made a tremendous block . . .

Carry 9: 3 yard gain

Formation: I formation

Inside trap . . . another great job of making subtle, quick cuts while gaining positive yardage . . . put his shoulder down, but easily tackled

Carry 10: 6 yard gain

Formation: I formation

Handoff to the right . . . did a nice job of following his fullback

CATCHING THE FOOTBALL

Game Stats: 2 receptions, 23 yards

Catch 1: 5 yard gain

Missed this one, ESPN skipped over the drive

Catch 2: 18 yard gain

Inside screen . . . caught the ball, and made one cut off his blocker, then he turned on the jets . . . very fast and fluid in the open field . . . a little awkward catching the ball, made a two handed basket catch which caused a delay before he turned upfield.

Final Game Analysis

Rushing Ability

With such a high rushing average, one would think Cal used Best on a lot of outside sweeps. THat was not the case this game. Every play, save for a stretch run just off the tackle started inside. Best displayed great vision, and was very slippery inside. He makes what I call subtle short cuts that are lightning fast but allows him to evade the grasp of defenders inside. He does not run with a lot of power in the hole, and was tackled on first contact. Not good at making hard change of direction behind the line. Once he turns his shoulders, he can fly. The only back I have seen this year that looks faster is CJ Spiller.

Receiving Ability

Best lined up several times outside and ran nice routes. On the second play of game, Best split wide and toasted the Maryland free safety, Terrell Skinner. If the CAL qb could throw it to Best in stride it would be a sure touchdown, as he had 3-4 steps on the safety. Did a great job of adjusting to the ball in the air while still running. Should have made the over the shoulder catch, it bounced off his chest. Once he sees daylight, he just uses his world class speed to pick up chunks of yardage.

Blocking

Not a good pass blocker, Does not look to make a hit and does not look inside first, shoulder blocked on several plays. Completely whiffed on a block in the red zone in the 2nd quarter that got his qb sacked (noticed that another running back came in form him the rest of the drive - all passes). Best was not an aggressive blocker, looked completely disinterested and avoided contact at all costs.

 
from SI.com

Update: While Best is expected to split carries with Maurice Morris and Kevin Smith (knee), the rookie will likely see the bulk of the Lions' workload, MLive.com reports.

Analysis: Morris showed flashes of competency last year, but isn't feature back material and Smith's return is still up in the air after knee surgery. Best may have to be eased into the top back role, but it's very clear that the Lions have very high hopes for the rookie. He'll likely be the starter in Week 1.

 

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