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Felix Jones & Marion Barber, RBs, Dallas Cowboys (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2010 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. This year, we plan to publish more than 140 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Felix Jones & Marion Barber, RBs, Dallas Cowboys

Player Page Link: Felix Jones Player Page

Player Page Link: Marion Barber Player Page

Each article will include:

[*]Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member

[*]Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads

[*]FBG Projections

[*]Consensus Member Projections

The Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

[*]Focus commentary on the player (or players) in question, and your expectations for said player (or players)

[*]Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"

[*]Avoid redundancies or :shrug: ... this should be about incremental analysis or debate

While not a requirement, we strongly encourage you to provide your own projections for the player (players):

Projections should include:

[*]For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Attempts, Rush Yards, Rush TDs

[*]For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

[*]For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

Now let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
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Okay, I'll start it off.

Felix, IMO, is the guy to have here. He has massive upside in that offense and Jerry wants him to be the guy more importantly.

Barring injury, which is easier said than done, the sky is the limit for Felix.

I'm going to project 220 carries for 1100 yards and 12 td's add in 50 catches for 400 yards ............. huge breakout year for Felix

I see Barber as the thumper being used fairly exclusively in the fourth quarter and short yardage.

120 carries 450 yards and 4 td's minimal catches

and finally Tashard Choice who I personally love as a potential star if given a chance still being the odd man out in Dallas

50 carries 225 yards and 2 td's throw in another 30 catches for 200 yards

 
Blackjacks said:
Okay, I'll start it off.Felix, IMO, is the guy to have here. He has massive upside in that offense and Jerry wants him to be the guy more importantly.Barring injury, which is easier said than done, the sky is the limit for Felix.I'm going to project 220 carries for 1100 yards and 12 td's add in 50 catches for 400 yards ............. huge breakout year for FelixI see Barber as the thumper being used fairly exclusively in the fourth quarter and short yardage. 120 carries 450 yards and 4 td's minimal catchesand finally Tashard Choice who I personally love as a potential star if given a chance still being the odd man out in Dallas50 carries 225 yards and 2 td's throw in another 30 catches for 200 yards
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As a Cowboys fan who hasnt really broken down the numbers at all I cant imagine anywhere near that many catches for Felix and Tashard. Would think the TD numbers for Felix are kinda high as well, not that they arent well within reach though. Not bashing or anything, just an observation.
 
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mlbnfl said:
Blackjacks said:
Okay, I'll start it off.Felix, IMO, is the guy to have here. He has massive upside in that offense and Jerry wants him to be the guy more importantly.Barring injury, which is easier said than done, the sky is the limit for Felix.I'm going to project 220 carries for 1100 yards and 12 td's add in 50 catches for 400 yards ............. huge breakout year for FelixI see Barber as the thumper being used fairly exclusively in the fourth quarter and short yardage. 120 carries 450 yards and 4 td's minimal catchesand finally Tashard Choice who I personally love as a potential star if given a chance still being the odd man out in Dallas50 carries 225 yards and 2 td's throw in another 30 catches for 200 yards
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As a Cowboys fan who hasnt really broken down the numbers at all I cant imagine anywhere near that many catches for Felix and Tashard. Would think the TD numbers for Felix are kinda high as well, not that they arent well within reach though. Not bashing or anything, just an observation.
Click to expand...
(Rotoworld) The Cowboys plan to increase Felix Jones' usage in the passing game this season. Analysis: Jones' previous career high in catches is 19, so it won't be difficult. We wouldn't be surprised if he doubled that total this season. "Felix is way ahead of where he's been as a receiver," said owner Jerry Jones of Felix's work in OTAs. "He's been impressive with how he's running his routes. That has a chance to get ugly if he's really good ... coming out of the backfield." (RotoWire) Cowboys owner/GM Jerry Jones has been very impressed with Felix Jones' progress this offseason as a receiver out of the backfield, the Dallas Morning News reports. Analysis: "Felix is way ahead of where he's been as a receiver," the owner said. "He's been impressive with how he's running his routes. That has a chance to get ugly [for opposition defenses] if he's really good at running those routes coming out of the backfield." Jones caught just 19 passes in 2009, but the Cowboys are planning on ramping up his workload this season and if they can consistently get him the ball out in space he could do ... (More)
 
Ive posted my thoughts on Jones in many threads already, so ill just get down to the numbers.

Jones - 231 carries, 1207 yards, 39 rec. 412 yards, 11 total TD's

Barber - 131 carries, 536 yards, 18 rec. 147 yards, 8 total TD's

 
Jones - 170 for 900 / 25 Recs for 150 - 6 TDs

MBIII - 225 for 950 / 30 Recs for 160 - 8 - 10 TDs

TC - 50 for 225 / 10 Recs for 80 - 2 TDs

 
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :fishing:

 
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :homer:
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Thats what youre basing youre dislike for Jones on? This is the problem with statistics, you can always choose ones to back either side of an argument. How many first round pick RB's who have averaged over 6 yards a carry in their first two years didnt go on to get the majority of his teams carries in his 3rd year?
 
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Thats what youre basing youre dislike for Jones on? This is the problem with statistics, you can always choose ones to back either side of an argument. How many first round pick RB's who have averaged over 6 yards a carry in their first two years didnt go on to get the majority of his teams carries in his 3rd year?
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Didn't say I disliked Jones, I have him at RB25 right now, but I am a fan of history repeating itself. Elite RBs rarely take a backseat for two seasons, and then magically vault into elite level. It happens, absolutely, and that's what will need to happen for Felix to be a breakout star. But I look at Barber and see someone that remains quite productive, and a very skilled short yardage runner AND receiver such that he can play in any down and distance. I also see a guy in Jones that hasn't done it yet, in spite of what Jerry may want. To me that indicates more of a committee approach as the most LIKELY outcome, not the one that's a guarantee.
 
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Thats what youre basing youre dislike for Jones on? This is the problem with statistics, you can always choose ones to back either side of an argument. How many first round pick RB's who have averaged over 6 yards a carry in their first two years didnt go on to get the majority of his teams carries in his 3rd year?
Click to expand...
One other thing to consider is age. Felix was only 21 when he came in the league. How many guys on the list that didnt have major stats the first 2 years were that age?
 
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Thats what youre basing youre dislike for Jones on? This is the problem with statistics, you can always choose ones to back either side of an argument. How many first round pick RB's who have averaged over 6 yards a carry in their first two years didnt go on to get the majority of his teams carries in his 3rd year?
Click to expand...
Didn't say I disliked Jones, I have him at RB25 right now, but I am a fan of history repeating itself. Elite RBs rarely take a backseat for two seasons, and then magically vault into elite level. It happens, absolutely, and that's what will need to happen for Felix to be a breakout star. But I look at Barber and see someone that remains quite productive, and a very skilled short yardage runner AND receiver such that he can play in any down and distance. I also see a guy in Jones that hasn't done it yet, in spite of what Jerry may want. To me that indicates more of a committee approach as the most LIKELY outcome, not the one that's a guarantee.
Click to expand...
I think the reason his numbers are so low over his first two years is due to injury.

I have a feeling if he stayed healthy, everyone would know now what i already know. :shrug:

 
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Thats what youre basing youre dislike for Jones on? This is the problem with statistics, you can always choose ones to back either side of an argument. How many first round pick RB's who have averaged over 6 yards a carry in their first two years didnt go on to get the majority of his teams carries in his 3rd year?
Click to expand...
Didn't say I disliked Jones, I have him at RB25 right now, but I am a fan of history repeating itself. Elite RBs rarely take a backseat for two seasons, and then magically vault into elite level. It happens, absolutely, and that's what will need to happen for Felix to be a breakout star. But I look at Barber and see someone that remains quite productive, and a very skilled short yardage runner AND receiver such that he can play in any down and distance. I also see a guy in Jones that hasn't done it yet, in spite of what Jerry may want. To me that indicates more of a committee approach as the most LIKELY outcome, not the one that's a guarantee.
Click to expand...
I think the reason his numbers are so low over his first two years is due to injury.

I have a feeling if he stayed healthy, everyone would know now what i already know. ;)
Click to expand...
Injuries are hardly a factor one can dismiss when evaluating a player. The fact Jones can't stay on the field with such a minimal workload is hardly in favor of the case that he'll magically stand up to a 200+ touch season.
 
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Thats what youre basing youre dislike for Jones on? This is the problem with statistics, you can always choose ones to back either side of an argument. How many first round pick RB's who have averaged over 6 yards a carry in their first two years didnt go on to get the majority of his teams carries in his 3rd year?
Click to expand...
Didn't say I disliked Jones, I have him at RB25 right now, but I am a fan of history repeating itself. Elite RBs rarely take a backseat for two seasons, and then magically vault into elite level. It happens, absolutely, and that's what will need to happen for Felix to be a breakout star. But I look at Barber and see someone that remains quite productive, and a very skilled short yardage runner AND receiver such that he can play in any down and distance. I also see a guy in Jones that hasn't done it yet, in spite of what Jerry may want. To me that indicates more of a committee approach as the most LIKELY outcome, not the one that's a guarantee.
Click to expand...
I think the reason his numbers are so low over his first two years is due to injury.

I have a feeling if he stayed healthy, everyone would know now what i already know. ;)
Click to expand...
Injuries are hardly a factor one can dismiss when evaluating a player. The fact Jones can't stay on the field with such a minimal workload is hardly in favor of the case that he'll magically stand up to a 200+ touch season.
Click to expand...
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
 
Go deep said:
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
Click to expand...
No one is "dismissing talent." Again, my projections and rankings are on the site for you to see. I'm modeling 16 games played for Jones. But you made the case that his 1080 yards and 6 TDs were because he missed time due to injury. But missed time is a part of the game, so somehow excluding it from the aforementioned comparison of similar players makes little sense.
 
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Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
Click to expand...
No one is "dismissing talent." Again, my projections and rankings are on the site for you to see. I'm modeling 16 games played for Jones. But you made the case that his 1080 yards and 6 TDs were because he missed time due to injury. But missed time is a part of the game, so somehow excluding it from the aforementioned comparison of similar players makes little sense.
Click to expand...
Most of those players are on that list because they were not talented. A list of first round RB's who had poor stat totals due to injuries would be alot more telling.
 
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The three headed monster, a fantasy nightmare. All 3 backs are productive in their own way but unless one of them get injured, they all cut into each others numbers in a big way.

At the end of last season, everyone could see how effective Felix Jones was, it appeared as if he was coming into his own right in front of our eyes. It's easy to think that what we saw at the end of last season should translate right over into the beginning of this season. That could be the case but we haven't seen Felix Jones carry the ball 15 to 20 times per game for 16 games and be effective all season long yet.

Marion Barber definately looked like he lost a step. I thought he looked good VERY early in the season last year but then pulled a hammy or leg muscle. He played much of last season but I thought he never looked the same. He didn't break that first tackle and was much easier to bring down. I'm unsure if he's just lost a step or will he rebound from a nagging injury that slowed him down. Even if he was slown down, the pounding his body takes due to his running style will most likely reoccur at some point during the season.

T. Choice- Does a lot of things well and will be used as a specialty back in the Wildcat and will give both of the above Rb's a breather when he's needed. I don't see T. Choice as a fantasy contender unless one or both of the above are out of the lineup. However, both of these guys have been banged up before and if that's the case, T. Choice is good enough to be a top 10 weekly RB if he's THE guy in Dallas for the week.

Felix Jones- 820 yards for 6 td's 35 receptions for 320 yards and 2 td's

Marion Barber 420 yards and 6 td's 15 receptions for 188 yards 1 td

Tashard Choice 380 yards and 3 td's 22 receptions for 205 for 1 td

 
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FYI, Barber played the last 13 games with a torn quad

Cowboys running back coach Skip Peete revealed that Marion Barber played the last 13 games of the 2009 season with a torn left quadriceps muscle.

"He still has a hole in it," Peete said. Barber suffered the injury in Week 2, when it was originally labeled a strain. Keep that in mind the next time someone tells you NFL teams are forthcoming with injury details. He also battled knee and thigh injuries in the playoffs, when he was held to 18 yards on 11 carries. Barber hasn't displayed any carryover effects from the injury this spring, but he remains a poor bet to stay healthy for 16 games.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Headlines...L&hl=174379

 
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I realize this is way late but at the same time I have not seen the final spotlight article posted yet.

1) Felix has never had more than 155 carries in a season (including college). In fact over the same period McFadden was getting 200+ & 300+ carry seasons.

2) For the 6 game stretch from week 14 last season (incl playoffs) he did average 13 carries / game which equates to ~200 carries for a regular season. However despite all those carries he only scored 2 TDs

For me he is likely to be overvalued as although his upside is 1200-1300 yards from scrimmage + 10 TDs I think he is more likely to end up with 1000-1100 yds & 5-6 TDs

 
Felix is as good as anyone in the league and now he's starting for one of the best rushing teams in the league

AD

CJ

Felix Jones

...

everyone else

 
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
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No one is "dismissing talent." Again, my projections and rankings are on the site for you to see. I'm modeling 16 games player for Jones. But you made the case that his 1080 yards and 6 TDs were because he missed time due to injury. But missed time is a part of the game, so somehow excluding it from the aforementioned comparison of similar players makes little sense.
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I don't think anyone is dismissing Felix Jones's talent. But some guys are just injury prone. And their career is defined by it. It doesn't mean that they aren't tough. But if they can't get through and have a solid year, they can't be given such high pre-season projections. The Cowboys have many weapons and it is fair to say that the production will be spread around. It will be tough for Jones or Barber to meet the top end expectations of some of the optimistic posters. It may be frustrating to have to over-draft all 3 RB's to secure the Cowboys running game, especially if it turns out to be a monster passing game for Romo. But count on a Cowboys homer to do just that.
 
Grahamburn said:
crush304 said:
Felix is as good as anyone in the league and now he's starting for one of the best rushing teams in the leagueADCJFelix Jones...everyone else
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:confused:
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Carry to carry, I think Felix Jones is a top 4-5 back in the NFL. If he stays healthy and gets carries, he'll put up big time numbers. I thought he was the best running back to come out of that draft (even though that title belongs to Chris Johnson) but I never liked McFadden over Jones. Felix has that elite extra gear and is an actual running back (as opposed to a great athlete playing RB). Granted, they're in significantly different situations (although McFadden does play behind a good run blocking o-line), but I always thought Felix would be the better pro and I think this is the season he officially breaks out. I don't think he'll be a huge fantasy star though just because of the lack of goal line work and how they'll still give choice some carries, but he'll be a great get for whoever picks him up in their leagues this season and will prove to be a very valuable dynasty piece going forward as well IMO.
 
Raiderfan32904 said:
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
Click to expand...
No one is "dismissing talent." Again, my projections and rankings are on the site for you to see. I'm modeling 16 games player for Jones. But you made the case that his 1080 yards and 6 TDs were because he missed time due to injury. But missed time is a part of the game, so somehow excluding it from the aforementioned comparison of similar players makes little sense.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is dismissing Felix Jones's talent. But some guys are just injury prone. And their career is defined by it. It doesn't mean that they aren't tough. But if they can't get through and have a solid year, they can't be given such high pre-season projections. The Cowboys have many weapons and it is fair to say that the production will be spread around. It will be tough for Jones or Barber to meet the top end expectations of some of the optimistic posters. It may be frustrating to have to over-draft all 3 RB's to secure the Cowboys running game, especially if it turns out to be a monster passing game for Romo. But count on a Cowboys homer to do just that.
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Like Fred Taylor or Isaac Bruce? How many guys who where deemed injury prone early in their careers actually ended their career being defined as injury prone?

I love it when players are undervalued due to the injury prone label, especially when it is the only reason to be down on a player.

 
Go deep said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
Click to expand...
No one is "dismissing talent." Again, my projections and rankings are on the site for you to see. I'm modeling 16 games player for Jones. But you made the case that his 1080 yards and 6 TDs were because he missed time due to injury. But missed time is a part of the game, so somehow excluding it from the aforementioned comparison of similar players makes little sense.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is dismissing Felix Jones's talent. But some guys are just injury prone. And their career is defined by it. It doesn't mean that they aren't tough. But if they can't get through and have a solid year, they can't be given such high pre-season projections. The Cowboys have many weapons and it is fair to say that the production will be spread around. It will be tough for Jones or Barber to meet the top end expectations of some of the optimistic posters. It may be frustrating to have to over-draft all 3 RB's to secure the Cowboys running game, especially if it turns out to be a monster passing game for Romo. But count on a Cowboys homer to do just that.
Click to expand...
Like Fred Taylor or Isaac Bruce? How many guys who where deemed injury prone early in their careers actually ended their career being defined as injury prone?

I love it when players are undervalued due to the injury prone label, especially when it is the only reason to be down on a player.
Click to expand...
I think you can throw in Barber, Choice and drafting a receiver high in the draft as other reasons. Personally, I love it when players are overvalued due to simply being talented. If that's all it took, we'd all be drafting very differently in August.
 
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Neil Beaufort Zod said:
Go deep said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Jason Wood said:
Go deep said:
Im glad people dismiss talent because they think players are injury prone. I wouldnt have guys like Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub on my dynasty teams otherwise.
Click to expand...
No one is "dismissing talent." Again, my projections and rankings are on the site for you to see. I'm modeling 16 games player for Jones. But you made the case that his 1080 yards and 6 TDs were because he missed time due to injury. But missed time is a part of the game, so somehow excluding it from the aforementioned comparison of similar players makes little sense.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is dismissing Felix Jones's talent. But some guys are just injury prone. And their career is defined by it. It doesn't mean that they aren't tough. But if they can't get through and have a solid year, they can't be given such high pre-season projections. The Cowboys have many weapons and it is fair to say that the production will be spread around. It will be tough for Jones or Barber to meet the top end expectations of some of the optimistic posters. It may be frustrating to have to over-draft all 3 RB's to secure the Cowboys running game, especially if it turns out to be a monster passing game for Romo. But count on a Cowboys homer to do just that.
Click to expand...
Like Fred Taylor or Isaac Bruce? How many guys who where deemed injury prone early in their careers actually ended their career being defined as injury prone?

I love it when players are undervalued due to the injury prone label, especially when it is the only reason to be down on a player.
Click to expand...
I think you can throw in Barber, Choice and drafting a receiver high in the draft as other reasons. Personally, I love it when players are overvalued due to simply being talented. If that's all it took, we'd all be drafting very differently in August.
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I dont care that they drafted another WR, i dont care if they have the best 8 WR's in the league, they will still run almost 50% of the time.Every team has other good RB's, but that doesnt stop the best RB on the team from getting carries. The Vikings traded up to draft Gerhart in the 2nd round, that didnt seem to hurt his value too much.

ETA, Players being overvalued simply because they are talented? Seriously? :blackdot:

 
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Dallas Cowboys RB Felix Jones reported to training camp weighing 218 pounds, four pounds more than RB Marion Barber III, the team's power back, according to Gerry Fraley, of The Dallas Morning News.

Is this good or bad for both players?

Should Barber be that light? Should Jones be that heavy?

We could see a quicker less powerful Barber and a slower more powerful Jones. I think that works against both of their games.

 
Welcome back, Marion Barber.

Jones 130 ru | 650 yd | 6 td | 21 rec | 180 yd | 1 td

Barber 200 ru | 820 yd | 6 td | 21 rec | 140 yd | 1 td

Choice 80 ru | 320 yd | 3 td | 16 rec | 180 yd | 0 td

 
Go deep said:
Ive posted my thoughts on Jones in many threads already, so ill just get down to the numbers.Jones - 231 carries, 1207 yards, 39 rec. 412 yards, 11 total TD'sBarber - 131 carries, 536 yards, 18 rec. 147 yards, 8 total TD's
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Now you guys need to remember that Felix AND Barber both have injury histories so while I agree that Barber's carries will drop this year, Felix won't carry the ball that many times IMO. I do think Choice will get more carries though. I think Barber gets about 175 carries. Felix will get 150 carries but will catch a lot more passes. Choice will get about 75 carries.
 
DAL - RB Marion Barber the No. 1 running back?Source: DallasCowboys.comDallas Cowboys RB Marion Barber III remains listed as the team's No. 1 running back ahead of RB Felix Jones on their official website's depth chart. [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ OUR VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]All of the offseason talk of Felix Jones becoming the focal point of the running game has been for naught. Even if Jones does move up on the depth chart, Barber will still get the valuable goal line carries and be worth playing as a flex at worst.
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Any new thoughts on these two guys? It doesn't look like Marion Barber is going away any time soon. This offense may be explosive enough that both of these players could manage RB2 numbers this season.I do like Barber's value in the 6th a bit more than Felix in the 5th. Considering Jones' tendency to get nicked up would the Cowboys be wise to limit his touches?
 
Jason Wood said:
I get that Felix Jones has the chance to be special, and the Cowboys may want to give him that chance. But I can't escape the fact that he's had a whopping 1080 yards and 6 TDs from scrimmage in his first two seasons. Very few NFL RBs with that profile have gone on to elite productivity in future years. I understand that every situation is different, but I also look at Marion Barber (and to a lesser extent Tashard Choice) and see very capable stable mates who shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Here are all the RBs since the merger with 1200 (or less) yards and 6 (or fewer) TDs in their first two seasons:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/eAYli

Not exactly a fantasy star laden cast. :lmao:
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Why pick 6 TDs? Change that slightly and you have Larry Johnson, or Tiki Barber.Brian Westbrook had pretty weak stats his first two years, but he breaks your barrier by a whopping 22 yards and 1 TD, I bet he's glad he got that, otherwise he would have sucked! Riggs is probably happy he got those TDs in year two, otherwise his career was on a downward spiral. Priest Holmes, 68 yards and 1 TD away from garbage.

Michael Turner is bound to fail. Jamal Anderson never amounted to anything. Terry Allen, Garrison Hearst, and Ahman Green too.

Do you have the same opinion of Tashard Choice, who also falls into the same statistics you used?

How many RBs were drafted in the first round at just 20 years of age and didn't succeed in the NFL?

Sorry... I'm having a little fun with the absurdity of your argument. No personal offense intended :P

 
Ok, looking at this from a dynasty perspective... I guess Felix is the guy to own? How does Choice fit in, and what does it look like after this year?

I'm asking because I've got a chance to trade for 1 or 2 of these guys, and I haven't paid attention to the situation all season.

 
zed2283 said:
Ok, looking at this from a dynasty perspective... I guess Felix is the guy to own? How does Choice fit in, and what does it look like after this year?I'm asking because I've got a chance to trade for 1 or 2 of these guys, and I haven't paid attention to the situation all season.
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Long term, I think Felix is the best of the 3 to own.
 
Felix is definitely the guy to own. I don't know his ceiling, but clearly Dallas feels his is the highest. Choice has been nice but in dynasty he has to be fairly low. Look at Mewelde Moore and Chester Taylor for examples of really good and hyped backups that move to other teams.... where they remain backups.

Barber - We've seen his maximum. He could get traded and that could help but will he beat out the other RBs at this point? If he has slowed to more of a plodder as many suggest, there's little upside there.

 
The one bright spot for Felix last night was that he looked pretty good in pass protection. Hopefully this means they'll keep him out there on 3rd downs more often.

 
Nicolas Cocaign said:
The one bright spot for Felix last night was that he looked pretty good in pass protection. Hopefully this means they'll keep him out there on 3rd downs more often.
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I know people are going to scoff, because I've been an outspoken Jones fan from the beginning. But he ran very well last night against the Giants. He was hit in the backfield repeatedly, and didn't have a single negative yardage carry. He looked stronger than a lot of people here would like to admit, even once carrying two guys literally on his back to get back to the line of scrimmage.In addition, after a few weeks of people complaining he didn't look fast or shifty, I thought he showed both on his 17 yard run, and on his longer reception (can't remember the yardage).However, on third downs, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shift out Barber and bring in Choice, and still limit Jones role to 1st and 2nd down. Barber is just done, like terrible, absolutely sucks, garbage, etc. It's time to move on from him, and let Choice resume third down duties like he had last year.Frankly, they should have taken whatever they could get for Barber at the trade deadline. Even if he went to GB, or another NFC team, who cares. The Pats are successful because they don't get emotionally attached to their players, and they let them go when they aren't performing anymore. Dallas could learn a lesson from them.
 
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.

 
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game- which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
 
switz said:
Nicolas Cocaign said:
The one bright spot for Felix last night was that he looked pretty good in pass protection. Hopefully this means they'll keep him out there on 3rd downs more often.
Click to expand...
I know people are going to scoff, because I've been an outspoken Jones fan from the beginning. But he ran very well last night against the Giants. He was hit in the backfield repeatedly, and didn't have a single negative yardage carry. He looked stronger than a lot of people here would like to admit, even once carrying two guys literally on his back to get back to the line of scrimmage.In addition, after a few weeks of people complaining he didn't look fast or shifty, I thought he showed both on his 17 yard run, and on his longer reception (can't remember the yardage).However, on third downs, it wouldn't surprise me to see them shift out Barber and bring in Choice, and still limit Jones role to 1st and 2nd down. Barber is just done, like terrible, absolutely sucks, garbage, etc. It's time to move on from him, and let Choice resume third down duties like he had last year.Frankly, they should have taken whatever they could get for Barber at the trade deadline. Even if he went to GB, or another NFC team, who cares. The Pats are successful because they don't get emotionally attached to their players, and they let them go when they aren't performing anymore. Dallas could learn a lesson from them.
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I agree much with what you stated about Felix last night. I saw good news and bad news for Felix.Bad news is that O-Line is terrible. Its gonna be hard for him to make yardage running the ball with that O-Line no matter how good or bad people think he is. However, they were playing the Giants whose Defense is ferocious.Good news is I think with Kitna at the helm, only raises his value. More run plays and more dump offs to Felix.
 
kencav said:
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game- which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
Click to expand...
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...They have committed to him (totally) the last three games.

38 carries 176 yards (4.6)

17 catches 105 yards (6.2)

18 touches/game 94 yards/game

0 TDs

I stand by my original statement.

 
NatronIsMean said:
Felix is definitely the guy to own. I don't know his ceiling, but clearly Dallas feels his is the highest. Choice has been nice but in dynasty he has to be fairly low. Look at Mewelde Moore and Chester Taylor for examples of really good and hyped backups that move to other teams.... where they remain backups.
Click to expand...
Of course, Michael Turner and Priest Holmes are opposing examples. The truth is, you're never quite sure what you'll get from a high talent backup who moves to another situation. Also, your Chester Taylor example is flawed. Prior to the Vikings drafting ADP, Taylor was the starter and put up 1216 rushing yards, 288 receiving yards, and 6 TDs.
 
Chaka said:
kencav said:
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game - which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
Click to expand...
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...They have committed to him (totally) the last three games.

38 carries 176 yards (4.6)

17 catches 105 yards (6.2)

18 touches/game 94 yards/game

0 TDs

I stand by my original statement.
Click to expand...
First, are you talking FF production or NFL production? Because not a lot of players are generating on average 94 yards per game in the NFL. Especially when you consider he played MIN (T#9 - 3.8 YPC allowed) and NYG (#3 - 3.5 YPC allowed) in that stretch, two of the top run defenses in the league, and TEN which is not a bad run defense, just middle of the pack (T#14 - 4.0 YPC allowed). To put it in NFL perspective, here's a list of RBs averaging more than 94 TYPG:

Darren McFadden 150.0 (20 carries per game)

Adrian Peterson 138.0 (23 carries per game)

Arian Foster 135.8 (19 carries per game)

Frank Gore 130.6 (19 carries per game)

Ahmad Bradshaw 116.1 (19 carries per game)

Steven Jackson 111.7 (21 carries per game)

LeSean McCoy 110.0 (15 carries per game)

Chris Johnson 104.0 (23 carries per game)

Jamaal Charles 103.2 (13 carries per game)

LaDainian Tomlinson 99.5 (15 carries per game)

Rashard Mendenhall 96.7 (21 carries per game)

Peyton Hillis 95.1 (15 carries per game)

Ray Rice 94.6 (19 carries per game)

Michael Turner 94.3 (19 carries per game)

That's not bad company, and it's a pretty productive bunch IMO. Sure you'd like to see Jones getting 100+ yards per game, but he's just not getting enough opportunities. Every RB listed above, aside form Jamaal Charles, is gettign 15+ carries per game, not touches, carries. Jones is getting 12.7 per game over the last three. And so ...

How does 9 carries this week support "totally committed" to him AND a running game? The Cowboys are not committed to running the ball at all, which was part of the point the poster you replied to made. If they commit to Jones AND the running game. They haven't even totally committed to Jones yet, as Barber is still the "starter", and was given three shots to score TDs on the two opening drives. So, it's hard to argue they're totally committed to Jones. And there's no way to argue at all that they are committed to a running game, period.

 
switz said:
Chaka said:
kencav said:
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game - which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
Click to expand...
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...They have committed to him (totally) the last three games.

38 carries 176 yards (4.6)

17 catches 105 yards (6.2)

18 touches/game 94 yards/game

0 TDs

I stand by my original statement.
Click to expand...
First, are you talking FF production or NFL production? Because not a lot of players are generating on average 94 yards per game in the NFL. Especially when you consider he played MIN (T#9 - 3.8 YPC allowed) and NYG (#3 - 3.5 YPC allowed) in that stretch, two of the top run defenses in the league, and TEN which is not a bad run defense, just middle of the pack (T#14 - 4.0 YPC allowed). To put it in NFL perspective, here's a list of RBs averaging more than 94 TYPG:

Darren McFadden 150.0 (20 carries per game)

Adrian Peterson 138.0 (23 carries per game)

Arian Foster 135.8 (19 carries per game)

Frank Gore 130.6 (19 carries per game)

Ahmad Bradshaw 116.1 (19 carries per game)

Steven Jackson 111.7 (21 carries per game)

LeSean McCoy 110.0 (15 carries per game)

Chris Johnson 104.0 (23 carries per game)

Jamaal Charles 103.2 (13 carries per game)

LaDainian Tomlinson 99.5 (15 carries per game)

Rashard Mendenhall 96.7 (21 carries per game)

Peyton Hillis 95.1 (15 carries per game)

Ray Rice 94.6 (19 carries per game)

Michael Turner 94.3 (19 carries per game)

That's not bad company, and it's a pretty productive bunch IMO. Sure you'd like to see Jones getting 100+ yards per game, but he's just not getting enough opportunities. Every RB listed above, aside form Jamaal Charles, is gettign 15+ carries per game, not touches, carries. Jones is getting 12.7 per game over the last three. And so ...

How does 9 carries this week support "totally committed" to him AND a running game? The Cowboys are not committed to running the ball at all, which was part of the point the poster you replied to made. If they commit to Jones AND the running game. They haven't even totally committed to Jones yet, as Barber is still the "starter", and was given three shots to score TDs on the two opening drives. So, it's hard to argue they're totally committed to Jones. And there's no way to argue at all that they are committed to a running game, period.
Click to expand...
Switz I'm gonna ask you this. Is Felix a RB2 the rest of 2010?
 
switz said:
Chaka said:
kencav said:
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game - which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
Click to expand...
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...They have committed to him (totally) the last three games.

38 carries 176 yards (4.6)

17 catches 105 yards (6.2)

18 touches/game 94 yards/game

0 TDs

I stand by my original statement.
Click to expand...
First, are you talking FF production or NFL production? Because not a lot of players are generating on average 94 yards per game in the NFL. Especially when you consider he played MIN (T#9 - 3.8 YPC allowed) and NYG (#3 - 3.5 YPC allowed) in that stretch, two of the top run defenses in the league, and TEN which is not a bad run defense, just middle of the pack (T#14 - 4.0 YPC allowed). To put it in NFL perspective, here's a list of RBs averaging more than 94 TYPG:

Darren McFadden 150.0 (20 carries per game)

Adrian Peterson 138.0 (23 carries per game)

Arian Foster 135.8 (19 carries per game)

Frank Gore 130.6 (19 carries per game)

Ahmad Bradshaw 116.1 (19 carries per game)

Steven Jackson 111.7 (21 carries per game)

LeSean McCoy 110.0 (15 carries per game)

Chris Johnson 104.0 (23 carries per game)

Jamaal Charles 103.2 (13 carries per game)

LaDainian Tomlinson 99.5 (15 carries per game)

Rashard Mendenhall 96.7 (21 carries per game)

Peyton Hillis 95.1 (15 carries per game)

Ray Rice 94.6 (19 carries per game)

Michael Turner 94.3 (19 carries per game)

That's not bad company, and it's a pretty productive bunch IMO. Sure you'd like to see Jones getting 100+ yards per game, but he's just not getting enough opportunities. Every RB listed above, aside form Jamaal Charles, is gettign 15+ carries per game, not touches, carries. Jones is getting 12.7 per game over the last three. And so ...

How does 9 carries this week support "totally committed" to him AND a running game? The Cowboys are not committed to running the ball at all, which was part of the point the poster you replied to made. If they commit to Jones AND the running game. They haven't even totally committed to Jones yet, as Barber is still the "starter", and was given three shots to score TDs on the two opening drives. So, it's hard to argue they're totally committed to Jones. And there's no way to argue at all that they are committed to a running game, period.
Click to expand...
To quote Hoss Cartwright "I agree 100% with Switz"In the words of Yoda "totally commit they have not!"

 
Last edited by a moderator:
switz said:
Chaka said:
kencav said:
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game - which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
Click to expand...
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...They have committed to him (totally) the last three games.

38 carries 176 yards (4.6)

17 catches 105 yards (6.2)

18 touches/game 94 yards/game

0 TDs

I stand by my original statement.
Click to expand...
First, are you talking FF production or NFL production? Because not a lot of players are generating on average 94 yards per game in the NFL. Especially when you consider he played MIN (T#9 - 3.8 YPC allowed) and NYG (#3 - 3.5 YPC allowed) in that stretch, two of the top run defenses in the league, and TEN which is not a bad run defense, just middle of the pack (T#14 - 4.0 YPC allowed). To put it in NFL perspective, here's a list of RBs averaging more than 94 TYPG:

Darren McFadden 150.0 (20 carries per game)

Adrian Peterson 138.0 (23 carries per game)

Arian Foster 135.8 (19 carries per game)

Frank Gore 130.6 (19 carries per game)

Ahmad Bradshaw 116.1 (19 carries per game)

Steven Jackson 111.7 (21 carries per game)

LeSean McCoy 110.0 (15 carries per game)

Chris Johnson 104.0 (23 carries per game)

Jamaal Charles 103.2 (13 carries per game)

LaDainian Tomlinson 99.5 (15 carries per game)

Rashard Mendenhall 96.7 (21 carries per game)

Peyton Hillis 95.1 (15 carries per game)

Ray Rice 94.6 (19 carries per game)

Michael Turner 94.3 (19 carries per game)

That's not bad company, and it's a pretty productive bunch IMO. Sure you'd like to see Jones getting 100+ yards per game, but he's just not getting enough opportunities. Every RB listed above, aside form Jamaal Charles, is gettign 15+ carries per game, not touches, carries. Jones is getting 12.7 per game over the last three. And so ...

How does 9 carries this week support "totally committed" to him AND a running game? The Cowboys are not committed to running the ball at all, which was part of the point the poster you replied to made. If they commit to Jones AND the running game. They haven't even totally committed to Jones yet, as Barber is still the "starter", and was given three shots to score TDs on the two opening drives. So, it's hard to argue they're totally committed to Jones. And there's no way to argue at all that they are committed to a running game, period.
Click to expand...
My goodness. Defending Felix is like religion for some people.I never said he was bad, I have repeatedly said in multiple threads that he might be truly talented.

Well he is getting almost the same opportunities as McFadden and he isn't producing at nearly his level (56 fewer yards on 2 fewer touches). Which is what I responded to.

Felix's alleged uber-talent is not translating to that kind of production on the field. Nor is it translating to anything special in general. Felix has not been a game changer, he has not reeled off the big plays that we are all hoping for from him. 4.6 per carry is nice but 6.2 per reception is meh.

I honestly blame the Cowboys more than Felix for most of this but the guy is just average on this team, or is being #15 in yardage (over the last three games) out of 32 starting RBs in the league better than average somehow?

I hope that changes, but don't be shocked if we see this level of production throughout 2010.

 
steelwind said:
switz said:
Chaka said:
kencav said:
Chaka said:
One good carry does not a good running back make.

Felix might (might) be a great talent but I don't see it translating to production on the field with this Dallas team.
Click to expand...
If they would TOTALLY commit to him and a running game - which they may have to- he could/should produce numbers like his former backfield mate Darren McFadden.
Click to expand...
Coulda, shoulda, woulda...They have committed to him (totally) the last three games.

38 carries 176 yards (4.6)

17 catches 105 yards (6.2)

18 touches/game 94 yards/game

0 TDs

I stand by my original statement.
Click to expand...
First, are you talking FF production or NFL production? Because not a lot of players are generating on average 94 yards per game in the NFL. Especially when you consider he played MIN (T#9 - 3.8 YPC allowed) and NYG (#3 - 3.5 YPC allowed) in that stretch, two of the top run defenses in the league, and TEN which is not a bad run defense, just middle of the pack (T#14 - 4.0 YPC allowed). To put it in NFL perspective, here's a list of RBs averaging more than 94 TYPG:

Darren McFadden 150.0 (20 carries per game)

Adrian Peterson 138.0 (23 carries per game)

Arian Foster 135.8 (19 carries per game)

Frank Gore 130.6 (19 carries per game)

Ahmad Bradshaw 116.1 (19 carries per game)

Steven Jackson 111.7 (21 carries per game)

LeSean McCoy 110.0 (15 carries per game)

Chris Johnson 104.0 (23 carries per game)

Jamaal Charles 103.2 (13 carries per game)

LaDainian Tomlinson 99.5 (15 carries per game)

Rashard Mendenhall 96.7 (21 carries per game)

Peyton Hillis 95.1 (15 carries per game)

Ray Rice 94.6 (19 carries per game)

Michael Turner 94.3 (19 carries per game)

That's not bad company, and it's a pretty productive bunch IMO. Sure you'd like to see Jones getting 100+ yards per game, but he's just not getting enough opportunities. Every RB listed above, aside form Jamaal Charles, is gettign 15+ carries per game, not touches, carries. Jones is getting 12.7 per game over the last three. And so ...

How does 9 carries this week support "totally committed" to him AND a running game? The Cowboys are not committed to running the ball at all, which was part of the point the poster you replied to made. If they commit to Jones AND the running game. They haven't even totally committed to Jones yet, as Barber is still the "starter", and was given three shots to score TDs on the two opening drives. So, it's hard to argue they're totally committed to Jones. And there's no way to argue at all that they are committed to a running game, period.
Click to expand...
Switz I'm gonna ask you this. Is Felix a RB2 the rest of 2010?
Click to expand...
NO. RBs that dont find the endzone are almost worthless in FFL. Dallas abandones the run and they still give carries to MB3 (why I have no idea)
 
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