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Jerome Harrison & Montario Hardesty, RBs, Cleveland Browns (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2010 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. This year, we plan to publish more than 140 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Jerome Harrison & Montario Hardesty, RBs, Cleveland Browns

Player Page Link: Jerome Harrison Player Page

Player Page Link: Montario Hardesty Player Page

Each article will include:

[*]Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member

[*]Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads

[*]FBG Projections

[*]Consensus Member Projections

The Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

[*]Focus commentary on the player (or players) in question, and your expectations for said player (or players)

[*]Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"

[*]Avoid redundancies or :popcorn: ... this should be about incremental analysis or debate

While not a requirement, we strongly encourage you to provide your own projections for the player (players):

Projections should include:

[*]For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Attempts, Rush Yards, Rush TDs

[*]For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

[*]For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

Now let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
Jerome Harrison- I liked what I saw in Harrison at the end of last season, who didn't. The Browns drafted a rooie RB in Montario Hardesty but Harrison is a pretty good pass catcher and may find himself in on 3rd down situations as well. At this point, I'm leaning towards Harrison looking like a guy who has some value because I've actually seen what he can do at the pro level, and that was impressive.

800 yards and 7td's 40 recptions for 280 yards and 1 td

Montario Hardesty- Will have every shot to be the man but he'll have to prove it. Not a great receiver so if he's a RBBC guy who's not coming in on 3rd down passing situations, he may find limited success.

650 yards rushing 5 td's 18 receptions for 100 yards

 
Warning- Browns Homer.

If there is something to like about the Cle RB situation its the Holmgren/Mangini combo. When Mangini got to the Jets he quickly built an o-line and brought in a guy to be his ball carrier. Even though Leon Washington was on the roster (and had done some good things in NY Mangini's first year) TJ go 338 and 326 touches with Mangini there. Holmgren took a below average running game in Sea and in 2 years turned it into an above average game (his running game wasn't nearly as good in GB though).

the first draft pick under Mangini was a C, this year they added a late 3rd rounder to the line and a couple of FAs. I see the potential for the Browns pounding the ball a lot and the potential for one RB to get a large chunk. Best bet seems to be Hardesty due to his lower cost and the Browns moving up to get him.

 
It's hard to come up with a projection this early, but I like Hardesty to take over the backfield. For whatever reason, Harrison doesn't seem to inspire the coaching staff to give him the starting job and I don't think they drafted Hardesty not to give him every shot to take over the backfield. I think he's already working with the first team so he might already have the inside track on being the starter. But I'd like his prospects behind that offensive line a bit more if he didn't have to compete against the Bengals, Ravens, Steelers, and Jake Delhomme all season long.

 
I truly find it mind boggling that the Browns still even after last years perfromance late in the season do not want to give Jerome Harrison a clear shot at being a feature back. Every time I have seen this guy play he does nothing but make things happen. He clearly other than Cribbs is the best playmaker they have. I watched Hardesty enough in college to make a reasonable evaluation that he is not close to being an elite back. He is not anything close to a breakaway threat and is not good getting to the edges either. So I am not sold on the fact that Hardesty can be the 25 carry guy. He is more of a plodder to me an inside runner for sure. He can get the tough yards.

This has RBBC written all over it early in the year until one of them emerges. I think making a projection is very difficult. So I will bet my money on Harrison this year and project he takes over early or wins the job in pre-season.

Harrison 270 carries 1215 yards 5 TD's 35 receptions 255 yards 2 TD's

Hardesty 155 carries 620 yards 1 TD 5 receptions 20 yards

 
MrTwo94 said:
You just projected 425 rushes from two RB's for Cleveland. One, that is probably more than the whole RB stable will receive. And two, what about Jennings, Davis, and Hillis? Do they get zero or are you expecting 500 rushing attempts?
Click to expand...
I just did the projections for those 2 backs...really not factoring in the others. And I do expect 500 carries for the Browns this season as they will clearly rely on the run big time this season for better or for worse.
 
Not sure where Hardesty got this reputation as a poor receiver? He did catch 25 passes for 302 yards last season in 13 games with Tennessee.

As far as the RB situation here, I just keep hearing about Hardesty getting first crack at the starting job. And with that line, he may not give it up once he gets it.

I will go:

Hardesty: 225 carries, 945 yards (4.2 Avg), 6 TD, 35 catches for 275 yards and 2 TD

Harrison: 150 carries, 645 yards (4.3 Avg), 5 TD, 45 catches for 350 yards and 3 TD

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Creed Bratton said:
It's hard to come up with a projection this early, but I like Hardesty to take over the backfield. For whatever reason, Harrison doesn't seem to inspire the coaching staff to give him the starting job and I don't think they drafted Hardesty not to give him every shot to take over the backfield. I think he's already working with the first team so he might already have the inside track on being the starter. But I'd like his prospects behind that offensive line a bit more if he didn't have to compete against the Bengals, Ravens, Steelers, and Jake Delhomme all season long.
Click to expand...
I agree. Holmy traded up to get another Shaun Alexander in my opinion. I think by week 8 Hardesty will be the maqn, but will share somewhat until then.Yes they have a bad team but running will keep the defense on the sidelines and resting.200 caries 1000 yards, 5TDs 40 receptions 250 yards 3 TDs
 
Todem said:
I truly find it mind boggling that the Browns still even after last years perfromance late in the season do not want to give Jerome Harrison a clear shot at being a feature back. Every time I have seen this guy play he does nothing but make things happen. He clearly other than Cribbs is the best playmaker they have. I watched Hardesty enough in college to make a reasonable evaluation that he is not close to being an elite back. He is not anything close to a breakaway threat and is not good getting to the edges either. So I am not sold on the fact that Hardesty can be the 25 carry guy. He is more of a plodder to me an inside runner for sure. He can get the tough yards.This has RBBC written all over it early in the year until one of them emerges. I think making a projection is very difficult. So I will bet my money on Harrison this year and project he takes over early or wins the job in pre-season.Harrison 270 carries 1215 yards 5 TD's 35 receptions 255 yards 2 TD'sHardesty 155 carries 620 yards 1 TD 5 receptions 20 yards
Click to expand...
It happens especially when a new GM like Holmgren comes in. He will make the team in his image and has a long term vision that may not include Harrison.For one I think he wants a power back for the december and january weather in Cleveland. Harrison isn't that kind of runner.
 
MrTwo94 said:
You just projected 425 rushes from two RB's for Cleveland. One, that is probably more than the whole RB stable will receive. And two, what about Jennings, Davis, and Hillis? Do they get zero or are you expecting 500 rushing attempts?
Click to expand...
Something you might want to consider: In all games last year, only once did a 3rd RB get carries (not counting Cribbs). It was in the game that Lewis got hurt. In every other game, only 2 RBs got carries and the lead RB got 80% of the carries. Mangini appears not to go with RBBC. Maybe he'll go hot hand, but it's certainly not inconceivable that, barring injury, the other RBs on the roster will get very few carries.I agree with Todem that Harrison will get the majority of the carries (and I realize I'm in the minority here). Harrison: 260-1140-6, 35-260-2Hardesty: 140-560-4, 10-75-0
 
I own both these guys in most of my leagues so of course I would hate any type of committee but I do expect one with a bigger number of carries going to Hardesty while Harrison gets most of the 3rd down work and some change of pace stuff. For whatever reason the Browns have never seemed happy with making Harrison the starting rb and once I saw them draft Hardesty I was pretty sure he would be the future in Cleveland even when Mangini is sent packing next year. The Browns have a god enough Oline and really nothing else on offense so I expect the rb carries to reach somewhere around 420 not counting Cribbs touches.

Hardesty 250-1030-4 15-87-1

Harrison- 170-782-2 38-255-2

I fully expect Hardesty to be the main man in 2011 if he can stay healthy this year

 
yeah i'm not getting the Hardesty "not a great receiver" stuff

he has good pass catching skills

 
MrTwo94 said:
BuckeyeArt said:
MrTwo94 said:
You just projected 425 rushes from two RB's for Cleveland. One, that is probably more than the whole RB stable will receive. And two, what about Jennings, Davis, and Hillis? Do they get zero or are you expecting 500 rushing attempts?
Click to expand...
Something you might want to consider: In all games last year, only once did a 3rd RB get carries (not counting Cribbs). It was in the game that Lewis got hurt. In every other game, only 2 RBs got carries and the lead RB got 80% of the carries. Mangini appears not to go with RBBC. Maybe he'll go hot hand, but it's certainly not inconceivable that, barring injury, the other RBs on the roster will get very few carries.I agree with Todem that Harrison will get the majority of the carries (and I realize I'm in the minority here). Harrison: 260-1140-6, 35-260-2Hardesty: 140-560-4, 10-75-0
Click to expand...
Didn't they trade for Hillis? I doubt they traded for him just to sit the bench. Plus, who did they have to put in last year? They were reluctant to use Harrison for some reason. Jennings was an undrafted rookie, right? James Davis was hurt. I'm not really sure if the workload split (or lack thereof) was a result of strategy or perceived void of options. Either way, I'll eat my shoe if those two combine for 400 carries.
Click to expand...
Last year, the RBs (not including Cribbs) had 232 carries over the 2nd half of the season and they went 4-4. I'd think they would be likely to follow that same strategy, if possible. That would be 464 for the year, plenty of carries left over for the other RBs. You are probably right that those two won't combine for 400 because one of them will likely get hurt and miss some time, with another RB picking up the carries. But, I'd bet the two lead RBs each game combine for an average of about 25 carries per game.
 
Hardesty may be a potential hidden gold mine for astute owners:

1) CLE has developed a recent reputation as a fantasy wasteland - deservedly so.

2) Everyone took notice of Jerome Harrison's late season exploits but in reality, they were the result of a) destroying KC, a team that hasn't finished better than 28th in rushing defense in 3 seasons (last two seasons have seen them give up 157.7 YPG) and b) a ridiculous amount of carries (105 in the last 3 games).

That said, aside from that KC game where Harrison did go off, he averaged 3.8 YPC in his last 2 games even though he accumulated 275 yards. So this wasn't a Jamaal Charles situation where he was eating up chunks of yardage at a time. Harrison uncharacteristically bludgeoned his way to his production. Certainly to his credit, but his production was the product of the Browns simply committing to the run game out of necessity.

Looking at those last 4 games which helped save Mangini's job, check out some of these numbers:

Rush Attempts: 181

Pass Attempts: 68 (including sacks)

...a 73/27 run/pass ratio over the course of a quarter of the season!!!! :lmao:

Cleveland simply couldn't pass the ball by the end of the year against pretty weak competition (not that they had excelled in this area prior to this stretch). Their 88.5 net passing yards/game for this 4 game stretch is almost incomprehensible. Now when you see these figures, even Jake Delhomme qualifies as a significant upgrade simply because he brings a veteran presence and some mental toughness to the position.

So given that Mangini has been given at least 1 more season consider that the first two picks the Jets made during the Mangini era were D'Brickshaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold. The first pick of Mangini's tenure in CLE was Alex Mack. He didn't need a LT; he already had Joe Thomas, one of the best (if not the best) in the game. The Jets as they exist today were built on the principles at least set by Mangini on the offensive side of the ball.

The Browns have the makings of a tremendous O-Line that could, and perhaps should, pay dividends as early as this season. Even amidst a their 1-11 start, they ran the ball 317 times which would have put them at 422 for a full season. While it's not exceptional, I see this team as being committed to running the ball even prior to their ridiculous 73/27 stretch. Overall, they finished 6th in the NFL in rush attempts.

I think their 2010 schedule could lead them to 7 wins and they start off with @TB & KC. So a surprise 2-0 start isn't out of the question. But with that in mind, I could see them hitting 550 on the total rushing attempts tab for the 2010 season. This would leave plenty of work for both Hardesty and Harrison to flesh out their production in fully defined roles.

From what I saw of Hardesty last season, he seemed like a tough runner who always seemed to be a thorn in the side of the team playing him. And at 6'0 225 - Hardesty provides the physical component to a rushing attack that can now make better use of Harrison's multi-dimensional talents. While performance on the field and in games will ultimately decide workload levels, Mangini has been unabashedly gushing about Hardesty. Mangini does not appear to me to be an 'unabashed' type of guy, so the opportunity is ripe for Hardesty to make a sizable impact his rookie year. And while, folks are flocking to Matthews & Best in Round 2 & 5...you might be able to get the game level of production by waiting until 7-8 to get a solid rookie RB.



Prediction:

Hardesty - 251 Carries, 1086 Rushing Yards, 7 TD's; 16 Receptions 107 Receiving Yards, 0 TD's.

Harrison - 148 Carries 752 Rushing Yards, 3 TD's; 38 Receptions 284 Receiving Yards, 2 TD's.

 
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I predict that Harrison gets more carries this year than Hardesty. Think Tom Jones and Greene. How many games did Greene get more carries? I expect about the same unless Hardesty can pick up the blitz AND really breaks some big ones early.

 
ookook said:
I predict that Harrison gets more carries this year than Hardesty. Think Tom Jones and Greene. How many games did Greene get more carries? I expect about the same unless Hardesty can pick up the blitz AND really breaks some big ones early.
Click to expand...
This is a sensible post.
 
Cleveland fan - with a hunch

Harrison's close almost makes one forgot that he was the same guy who was often either inactive or barely used by two different coaching staffs. The irony is harrison has always flashed talent. What does it say when he cant beat out the likes of Jason Wright or Chris Jennings - on a dreadful team looking for any hope? The word is the mental aspect has alluded him. Cant pick up blitzes and doesnt know regular assignments. Giving him the ball 70 percent of the time is one way to hide that...

Have watched more Mangini press conferences than I would like to admit. Can say he is a stickler for attention to detail and despises mental lapses. Two years of camp where he loves to put people on the spot with random play diagrams or recital of teammates names. For him to speak glowingly of Hardesty's maturity and grasp of the game - coupled with Holgren's reaction after mini camp where he stated that Hardesty has a shot to be a "special player" is just about my yearly fill of false Cleveland hope.

 
I love how everyone is forgetting Davis. He will get his too. IMHO, he is better than Harrison.

 
From my view watching the game last night I believe that Harrison is the guy to target in Cleveland.

The Jake Delhomme stuff is a bit premature. I don't know what happened in Carolina, but he seems to have regained his confidence under Mangini. He looked good last night in his series. He wasn't forcing anything, finding the open man play after play. I would have like to see him for another series, but it wasn't to be. That makes me think the coaching staff has a good feel for what Delhomme brings to the table and are satisfied.

Harrison being a bell-cow in that offense would be a nice value, but I'm not sure what will happen with a healthy Hardesty. Davis is the backup. That was clear.

 
TheDirtyWord said:
Hardesty may be a potential hidden gold mine for astute owners:

1) CLE has developed a recent reputation as a fantasy wasteland - deservedly so.

2) Everyone took notice of Jerome Harrison's late season exploits but in reality, they were the result of a) destroying KC, a team that hasn't finished better than 28th in rushing defense in 3 seasons (last two seasons have seen them give up 157.7 YPG) and b) a ridiculous amount of carries (105 in the last 3 games).

That said, aside from that KC game where Harrison did go off, he averaged 3.8 YPC in his last 2 games even though he accumulated 275 yards. So this wasn't a Jamaal Charles situation where he was eating up chunks of yardage at a time. Harrison uncharacteristically bludgeoned his way to his production. Certainly to his credit, but his production was the product of the Browns simply committing to the run game out of necessity.

Looking at those last 4 games which helped save Mangini's job, check out some of these numbers:

Rush Attempts: 181

Pass Attempts: 68 (including sacks)

...a 73/27 run/pass ratio over the course of a quarter of the season!!!! :bs:

Cleveland simply couldn't pass the ball by the end of the year against pretty weak competition (not that they had excelled in this area prior to this stretch). Their 88.5 net passing yards/game for this 4 game stretch is almost incomprehensible. Now when you see these figures, even Jake Delhomme qualifies as a significant upgrade simply because he brings a veteran presence and some mental toughness to the position.

So given that Mangini has been given at least 1 more season consider that the first two picks the Jets made during the Mangini era were D'Brickshaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold. The first pick of Mangini's tenure in CLE was Alex Mack. He didn't need a LT; he already had Joe Thomas, one of the best (if not the best) in the game. The Jets as they exist today were built on the principles at least set by Mangini on the offensive side of the ball.

The Browns have the makings of a tremendous O-Line that could, and perhaps should, pay dividends as early as this season. Even amidst a their 1-11 start, they ran the ball 317 times which would have put them at 422 for a full season. While it's not exceptional, I see this team as being committed to running the ball even prior to their ridiculous 73/27 stretch. Overall, they finished 6th in the NFL in rush attempts.

I think their 2010 schedule could lead them to 7 wins and they start off with @TB & KC. So a surprise 2-0 start isn't out of the question. But with that in mind, I could see them hitting 550 on the total rushing attempts tab for the 2010 season. This would leave plenty of work for both Hardesty and Harrison to flesh out their production in fully defined roles.

From what I saw of Hardesty last season, he seemed like a tough runner who always seemed to be a thorn in the side of the team playing him. And at 6'0 225 - Hardesty provides the physical component to a rushing attack that can now make better use of Harrison's multi-dimensional talents. While performance on the field and in games will ultimately decide workload levels, Mangini has been unabashedly gushing about Hardesty. Mangini does not appear to me to be an 'unabashed' type of guy, so the opportunity is ripe for Hardesty to make a sizable impact his rookie year. And while, folks are flocking to Matthews & Best in Round 2 & 5...you might be able to get the game level of production by waiting until 7-8 to get a solid rookie RB.



Prediction:

Hardesty - 251 Carries, 1086 Rushing Yards, 7 TD's; 16 Receptions 107 Receiving Yards, 0 TD's.

Harrison - 148 Carries 752 Rushing Yards, 3 TD's; 38 Receptions 284 Receiving Yards, 2 TD's.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dirty Word - this is terrific information - how for does a Birdfan know about this? Brownie in hiding?
 
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