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Jets Passing Attack (1 Viewer)

Bob Magaw

Footballguy
interesting stats in the below article*...

excerpts...

- "Rookie Mark Sanchez had the third-fewest passing attempts in the last decade among quarterbacks with at least 15 starts, and the team’s pass-run ratio of 0.70 was the 10th-lowest since the advent of the 16-game schedule in 1978. The Jets ran the most of any team in situations you’d imagine, but they also ran 45 percent of the time (most in the league) when behind in the second half."

- "Including the AFC championship loss to the Colts, the Jets were 0-6 when allowing 20 or more points in a game. That’s a scary number in an NFL that gets more passing-based and explosive every year, as the New Orleans Saints could tell them; they scored 24 points in a victory against the Jets last season. The eventual Super Bowl champions allowed 20 or more points 13 times through the postseason, and went 10-3 in those games. The Colts were 4-3 under the same circumstances."

* http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnJf...lancejets071710

 
I think he's an underrated dynasty QB. I thought he looked pretty good last season, particularly in the playoffs. He has been a clutch performer throughout his brief career and that's a trait that I value at the QB position. IMO he just looks like a guy who's going to have a good career in the league. Rookie statistics be damned.

A lot of people are calling Sanchez a game manager and downgrading him because the Jets were a run-first team that played conservatively and tried to win on the strength of their defense. I think that's a mistake. Just because Sanchez played a game manager role last season doesn't mean he's a game manager by nature. Rex Ryan has already gone on record as saying that he envisions QB eventually becoming a strength of the offense. As Sanchez develops, I would expect his opportunities to expand and his statistics to follow suit.

We've seen this before with Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, who were both unfairly slapped with the "game manager" label early in their careers because they had the misfortune of landing on good teams that didn't force them to sling it 30 times per game in order to compete every week. Once they matured, they each posted multiple top 10 FF seasons.

I see a lot of parallels with the current Sanchez situation. A lot of folks are looking at this with an incredibly short-sighted and narrow-minded viewpoint. Just because the Jets were a conservative offense in 2009 doesn't mean they won't be slinging it 500 times in 2012. NFL teams build around their best players and if Sanchez ends up being an elite NFL QB then his FF statistics will follow.

Whether or not he takes that next step is the big question. His stats were uneven last year, but that's not entirely unexpected for a rookie QB and his playoff performances were excellent, suggesting both that he improved throughout the season and that he's capable of playing his best football when the stakes are highest. There's nothing statistically to distinguish Sanchez from his fellow first year starters Henne/Freeman/Stafford, but he's the only one of them who made the playoffs and won a playoff game. He's also the least experienced by far. Henne/Freeman/Stafford all started 3+ seasons in college whereas Sanchez only started 1. I think that's an interesting fact to remember when you try to compare these young QBs.

The Patriots will be the preseason favorites in the AFC East, but I think the Dolphins and Jets are the real teams to beat. I think it will be very interesting to watch Henne and Sanchez compete next season because I expect at least one of those guys to emerge as a franchise QB.

 
Good posting EBF,

I agree with a lot of your points and I like your examples of Big Ben and Tom Brady. To answer your question Bob, I don't think the training wheels have to come off. That's no knock on Sanchez, but the Jets looked to have only improved their defense and running game since their loss in the AFC Championship game last season. They'd be fools to completely revamp their offensive scheme just because Sanchez is in his 2nd year and he's not a rookie anymore. Will they do a few more things this year that they didn't do at the beginning of his rookie season because they trust him more? Of course, I think he's proven to his coaches and teammates that he's got a little more in him than just a clock manager. Sanchez made some plays down the stretch last season in some high pressure situations where most rookies would have struggled. Yes the Jets had a good defense, yes they had a good offensive line and running game to aid Sanchez. However, he did his part as well and regardless of fantasy football numbers, Sanchez will have a solid NFL career.

If you just use the simplest of grading scales, plus or minus, I'd say having Sanchez at QB for the Jets is a plus.

 
Must admit that the WR corps was significantly upgraded with Holmes and Edwards. Cotchery is no slouch either. Keller can flat out fly for a TE.

Would be a shame to not let him open it up a little bit more.

-my 2¢

 
Are we talking redraft?

I don't see the Jets throwing the ball a lot. Cotchery is a very avg WR, Braylon has bad hands, Holmes is suspended the 1st 4 games...with a strong defense I believe it will be more of the same with an emphasis on the run. How many yds and Tds do people think new York will throw for? Certainly jogging out Sanchez every week in redraft is a recipe for failure.

 
Are we talking redraft? I don't see the Jets throwing the ball a lot. Cotchery is a very avg WR, Braylon has bad hands, Holmes is suspended the 1st 4 games...with a strong defense I believe it will be more of the same with an emphasis on the run. How many yds and Tds do people think new York will throw for? Certainly jogging out Sanchez every week in redraft is a recipe for failure.
:goodposting: No one from the Jets passing game will be on my fantasy roster this season.
 
Jets season ticket holder:

I will not own anyone in the Jets passing attack this year.

 
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season.

So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.

 
Are we talking redraft? I don't see the Jets throwing the ball a lot. Cotchery is a very avg WR, Braylon has bad hands, Holmes is suspended the 1st 4 games...with a strong defense I believe it will be more of the same with an emphasis on the run. How many yds and Tds do people think new York will throw for? Certainly jogging out Sanchez every week in redraft is a recipe for failure.
:unsure: No one from the Jets passing game will be on my fantasy roster this season.
I am not privvy to a lot of ADP #s yet, but I am guessing in a 12 team league, Braylon and Holmes are in the WR4 range (somewhere between WR# 37 and 48). How could you not want one of those two there?
 
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
The Jets made the AFC Championship game WITHOUT Leon, and Jones lost his job toward the end of the year, so neither of those loses are a big deal. In fact, it could be argued that the Jets running game will be improved (assuming Greene stays healthy). The addition of Holmes will have a huge impact on the offense, and by all accounts, Sanchez has taken huge strides this offseason in understanding the offense. Things look bright for the Jets, although, they are still the Jets, and they like to rip your heart out once you get your hopes up...
 
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
 
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season.

So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
The Jets made the AFC Championship game WITHOUT Leon, and Jones lost his job toward the end of the year, so neither of those loses are a big deal. In fact, it could be argued that the Jets running game will be improved (assuming Greene stays healthy). The addition of Holmes will have a huge impact on the offense, and by all accounts, Sanchez has taken huge strides this offseason in understanding the offense. Things look bright for the Jets, although, they are still the Jets, and they like to rip your heart out once you get your hopes up...
This is true. But I just think they caught lightning in a bottle last season.
 
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
I hope by supporting casts you mean offensive linemen. Because Keller hasn't really emerged, Braylon is a bust, Santonio is an enigma, Greene is unproven, and Ladainian might be finished. Not sure how this amounts to "one of the better supporting casts in the league."
 
Rex Ryan has his formula, and he will stick with it. Dominating defense, run oriented ball control offense. The Jets will throw just enough to keep the ground game going. I'd be surprised if Sanchez has more than 20 attempts in more than 8 games this year.

 
There will be no need for Sanchez to wear big boy pants this year. The Jets formula of running the ball and tough defense works.

 
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
 
EBF said:
Donnybrook said:
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
I wasn't even tempted to respond to the paper tiger post, but I suppose I will now. This poster is wrong on several levels. First, the Jets weren't all that good last year. People forget how awful they were earlier in the season. They forget how gawd awful Sanchez was at times. Yes, they improved and looked decent in the playoffs. That seems to be the lasting impression. Even the defense lost a game or two last year early in the year. They gave up late points and lost. They got into the playoffs by the thinest of margins. They showed improvement. The off season moves have been very good. this team really wasn't all that last year, but all signs point towards improving this year. The defense is even better. They might have enough depth in the D backfield to challange Manning now. Jason Taylor as a pass rush specialist can only help. Sanchez has a year under his belt. If anything, I think the Jets were over rated last year, and under rated this year. One site even has the D ranked 4th in the second tier. The big question is Greene. If he can stay healthy.... the rest of it will fall into place.
 
i didn't mean to imply the passing attack goes from a tricycle to a rocket sled overnight...

just that there could be incremental improvement...

the reason i posted the article, was i didn't realize they were 0-6 against opponents that scored 20+...

i interpreted the trade for holmes as a sign that they would like to add him to edwards, cotchery & keller (+ LT out of the backfield) to give more weapons to sanchez in the passing game... he was admittedly cheap (5th?), and perhaps he is insurance in case they opt to go in a different direction from edwards in 2011... i think they picked up a $4-5 mil. option on edwards for 2010, so it is certainly possible he is in their long term plans, if he plays up to his potential... not sure if they intend to keep both edwards and holmes together beyond this year?

edwards has been called a bust... he isn't a bust like troy williamson or R.J. soward... he has had some success... when he hasn't, i'm not sure he was in the best position to succeed... CLE didn't have the greatest QB situtation at times, and than he was traded in-season, to a team with a rookie QB (like gruden said in the first game after the trade, a MNF contest in which he scored a TD... its not like trading for a third baseman mid-season)... this year should be a better indication of what he can do with a better supporting cast and surrounding talent... reportedly he was working with the jets WR coach (and former ram great) henry ellard in looking the ball into his hands... we'll see... :)

a few things about the "rex ryan" style of ball, and their conservative offense...

why move up to 1.5 and draft sanchez, just to have him hand off repeatedly? that doesn't make sense to me... even for a team that philosophically favors a smashmouth run game, there could be obvious benefit to having a more balanced attack, if defenses don't have to concern themselves with JUST the run game... the THREAT of a franchise QBs ability to hurt teams through the air if they stack the line becomes toothless if he remains shackled...

i'm not sure ryan has enough of a track record as a HEAD COACH to say definitively and conclusively that he won't evolve beyond last year's style... and his rookie year happened to coincide with the need to develop a rookie QB... most HCs would probably be expected to similarly protect the rookie QB, so this could be a case of conflating a temporary exigency with a rigid, invariant style...

lastly, given that the jets were 0-6 against teams that scored 20+... do they really want 2011 to be an exact duplicate of the run/pass distribution template from last year? perhaps they can have an even better defense & run game... but they were #1 in both last year... of course, they could be an even better #1, and maybe they will be on defense (secondary appears stronger, added jason taylor, but he is on the back end of his career)... but in the run game, they replace thomas jones (they needed to for the future of the franchise, but just in comparing last year's actual to 2010 potential, he had a career season) with the unproven shonn greene, who has a violent running style, and has been banged up in college and in his short time as a pro... and LT, who looks like a shell of his former self...

it is hard to flip a switch and have a competent passing attack if you only throw when you are behind... having a more balanced attack would make the WHOLE offense more battle tested for those times when the defense isn't stopping elite offenses they are likely to face if they advance to the playoffs (colts, chargers, etc)...

 
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Another thing I remember from last season was Sanchez's surprising hot start. They were 3-0 with Sanchez zipping the ball. Then it all went flat. After than the Jets were then 5-0 when he attempted fewer than 20 passes, and 0-7 when went over 20 attempts last year. I think the recipe for success will continue to be to pound the ball and defend. Sanchez will likely be a game manager for the time being. Why risk a good thing?

 
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Another thing I remember from last season was Sanchez's surprising hot start. They were 3-0 with Sanchez zipping the ball. Then it all went flat. After than the Jets were then 5-0 when he attempted fewer than 20 passes, and 0-7 when went over 20 attempts last year. I think the recipe for success will continue to be to pound the ball and defend. Sanchez will likely be a game manager for the time being. Why risk a good thing?
Good observations. Sanchez did throw the ball a lot early on - much more than you would normally expect from a rookie QB - and the team started off hot. Looked like Rex got a little ahead of himself and let Sanchez take a lot of undue risks.Then around the middle of the season, Sanchez made a LOT of bad throws/rookie mistakes. Meanwhile, the defense was playing out of its mind, and it was time to let the running game/defense take over. Worked all the way through the playoffs until the Colts game in the AFC championship. So now heading into 2010, I doubt Rex will want to deviate from that success model, as the defense looks just as strong - if not stronger - and hopefully Greene will be the incumbent workhorse they expect. That said, I expect them to take some shots on occasion down the field with Edwards and Holmes to stretch the field. And if the defense is giving up some points, Rex will let Sanchez open it up a bit more. But that will probably be more by default than by design.
 
EBF said:
Donnybrook said:
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
I wasn't even tempted to respond to the paper tiger post, but I suppose I will now. This poster is wrong on several levels. First, the Jets weren't all that good last year. People forget how awful they were earlier in the season. They forget how gawd awful Sanchez was at times. Yes, they improved and looked decent in the playoffs. That seems to be the lasting impression. Even the defense lost a game or two last year early in the year. They gave up late points and lost. They got into the playoffs by the thinest of margins. They showed improvement. The off season moves have been very good. this team really wasn't all that last year, but all signs point towards improving this year. The defense is even better. They might have enough depth in the D backfield to challange Manning now. Jason Taylor as a pass rush specialist can only help. Sanchez has a year under his belt. If anything, I think the Jets were over rated last year, and under rated this year. One site even has the D ranked 4th in the second tier. The big question is Greene. If he can stay healthy.... the rest of it will fall into place.
Yeah, I was about to reply to that but deleted my response... Seemed like a fishing trip to me.The Jets defense was a work in Progress last year - The secondary has a lot more talent with Cromartie and the Rook Wilson over Lito Sheppard... More talent and more depth - A much better chance to compete with the likes of Indy even though they hung in there in the playoffs until the secondary lost 3 guys.Kerry Rhodes never put the work in or grasped the D - Even if they lose a little talent wise there - They should be more on the same page.... I remember a number of blown plays last year because the secondary wasn't on the same page - The Tedd Ginn play being the biggest.Whatever Kris Jenkins can give is a bonus - and granted, he's an injury issue but, when on the field he dominates.... But, the Jets did what they did last year mostly without him, so again - more talent / more depth.But, when people write stuff like that, the second a few players go down with injury and losses pile Up , they come back and post "SEE" as if they nailed it....STAYING HEALTHY is obviously the key to any team's success... On offense, the Jets hardly gave Sanchez much at all to digest and barely even studied reading defenses much according to Shottenheimer... He also stated that Dustin Keller has been held back his 1st 2 years..... To me, the hardest position to predict is QB - but, whenever I see a QB that lives in the film room and invites WR's to his house and outworks everyone on the team, I tend to think we're not looking at the next Jamrcus Russel.I'll never go around touting My NFL team as the Super Bowl favorite or predict extreme greatness, this is a league in which a few key injuries makes all the difference. Contender - Yes. If healthy, the Jets are one of many teams that should contend.For fantasy purposes - As stated in the RB's thread - I'll probably take a flyer on LT at RB 46 over Green at RB 12.... With WR"s again, I'll probably take a flyer on the Jets last WR taken of the 3 over reaching for 1 earlier - Looks like the Jets WR3 is going around WR45-50.... For my 5th WR - MAYBE??? I won't say I'm not grabbing ANY Jet Wr's... And Keller looks like a decent value play at this point if you get shut out on an early TE run.
 
edwards has been called a bust... he isn't a bust like troy williamson or R.J. soward... he has had some success... when he hasn't, i'm not sure he was in the best position to succeed... CLE didn't have the greatest QB situtation at times, and than he was traded in-season, to a team with a rookie QB (like gruden said in the first game after the trade, a MNF contest in which he scored a TD... its not like trading for a third baseman mid-season)... this year should be a better indication of what he can do with a better supporting cast and surrounding talent... reportedly he was working with the jets WR coach (and former ram great) henry ellard in looking the ball into his hands... we'll see... :thumbup:
Also - On Braylon.... Rex isn't one to blow smoke when he doesn't believe it - THIS GUY LOVES BRAYLON EDWARDS!!!! LOVES him.Rex would completely laugh at anyone calling BE a Bust.He loved what he saw on the other side of the ball as a DC game planning against him, he loves every single thing Braylon has shown In New York so far - A model team mate and one of the harder workers on the team. Maybe surprising to CLE fans but, yeah, a team leader and someone who seems a lot more at home... Guy is a fantastic Run Blocker and seems to be buying in 100% with being a compliment to the offense, even as a blocker....
 
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
The Jets made the AFC Championship game WITHOUT Leon, and Jones lost his job toward the end of the year, so neither of those loses are a big deal. In fact, it could be argued that the Jets running game will be improved (assuming Greene stays healthy). The addition of Holmes will have a huge impact on the offense, and by all accounts, Sanchez has taken huge strides this offseason in understanding the offense. Things look bright for the Jets, although, they are still the Jets, and they like to rip your heart out once you get your hopes up...
I take a different view with regard to the Jets running game. Even assuming that Greene stays healthy, there is no assurance that he has the stamina/capacity to be the primary runner for the Jets. I believe that Greene excelled in the playoffs last year and Jones lost his job last year because Jones was worn out from the volume of carries he had over the last couple of years (and last year especially). Greene came in and opposing defences were subject to a fresh set of legs and limited game film in which to recognize his tendencies. The Jets no longer have Jones to be the pound dog. Greene must take this on his own with limited support - nothing I've seen would suggest that LT can assume a good chunk of the carries. Furthermore, replacing Faneca with either a rookie or a 3 year man with limited experience is a big question mark. Faneca wasn't replaced because he wasn't doing the job in the running game, he was replaced because he was becoming a pass blocking liability. He did an exceptional job in run blocking. The loss of Faneca, the question as to Greene's ability to be the primary ball carrier for the Jets and the limitation of 2nd/3rd RB all point to a weaker running game in my opinion.
 
EBF said:
Donnybrook said:
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
Taking an AFC championship game team and dismantling a lot of the roster and jettisoning the veterans who got you there are great moves? :coffee:
 
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Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
The Jets made the AFC Championship game WITHOUT Leon, and Jones lost his job toward the end of the year, so neither of those loses are a big deal. In fact, it could be argued that the Jets running game will be improved (assuming Greene stays healthy). The addition of Holmes will have a huge impact on the offense, and by all accounts, Sanchez has taken huge strides this offseason in understanding the offense. Things look bright for the Jets, although, they are still the Jets, and they like to rip your heart out once you get your hopes up...
I take a different view with regard to the Jets running game. Even assuming that Greene stays healthy, there is no assurance that he has the stamina/capacity to be the primary runner for the Jets. I believe that Greene excelled in the playoffs last year and Jones lost his job last year because Jones was worn out from the volume of carries he had over the last couple of years (and last year especially). Greene came in and opposing defences were subject to a fresh set of legs and limited game film in which to recognize his tendencies. The Jets no longer have Jones to be the pound dog. Greene must take this on his own with limited support - nothing I've seen would suggest that LT can assume a good chunk of the carries. Furthermore, replacing Faneca with either a rookie or a 3 year man with limited experience is a big question mark. Faneca wasn't replaced because he wasn't doing the job in the running game, he was replaced because he was becoming a pass blocking liability. He did an exceptional job in run blocking. The loss of Faneca, the question as to Greene's ability to be the primary ball carrier for the Jets and the limitation of 2nd/3rd RB all point to a weaker running game in my opinion.
I think Faneca took advantage of his smarts and long time in the NFL on certain run plays mostly where he was in space and pulling... And yeah, his pass blocking was embarrasing at times.When it comes to short yardage and just man handling the guy in front of you, I say the Jets could be better. As I've said before - I don' think the Jets are extremely worried about finding a RB on the market to run behind this line in case of emergency - I think they secretly believe this can be a plug and play OL and if LT fails and Greene gets hurt, it won't be anything like having a loss at key other key positions on the team, say CB, or QB....
 
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
Taking an AFC championship game team and dismantling a lot of the roster and jettisoning the veterans who got you there are great moves? :lmao:
They were in that game till the secondary got banged up - Now, the secondary is MUCH deeper because the Jets wanted to be able to cover the Indy's of the world to make the next step...They were also in that game till Greene got hurt and Thomas Jones, the Vet, was useless.Last year was year 1 of Rex Ryan building his team... More often than not I expect a change over and a HC/GM to bring in "Their Guys", guys who buy in 100% to what they are trying to do....Thomas Jones felt like he deserved more money.... TO BE A BACKUP.Kerry Rhodes wanted nothing to do with working overtime...Who else? Faneca??? He served a purpose as mentor for Brick and Mangold 2 years ago - Now he's a liability and I'll say exactly what Pitt fans said to Jets fans years ago - He's no longer what he once was.Who else?A Backup RB, a malcontent safety and an old declining Guard.... Those were the lost "Leaders"?I could very well be missing someone here help me out...In the mean time - that added Santonio Holmes, Cromartie, a top pick CB, LT, Taylor, they already had a G groomed behind Faneca who was recruited to play for the OL coach in college and a 2nd round pick..... Plus they get Kris Jenkins back.I don't know about you but, I'll take that all as a positive... We'll see, but, IMO this team is world ahead of where they were last year trying to implement all the new systems and get a rookie QB up to speed.... Last year was basically a rebuild / work in progress...IF HEALTHY, I look forward to seeing a team with a bit of a head start from last year's intro.
 
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
Taking an AFC championship game team and dismantling a lot of the roster and jettisoning the veterans who got you there are great moves? :lmao:
They were in that game till the secondary got banged up - Now, the secondary is MUCH deeper because the Jets wanted to be able to cover the Indy's of the world to make the next step...They were also in that game till Greene got hurt and Thomas Jones, the Vet, was useless.Last year was year 1 of Rex Ryan building his team... More often than not I expect a change over and a HC/GM to bring in "Their Guys", guys who buy in 100% to what they are trying to do....Thomas Jones felt like he deserved more money.... TO BE A BACKUP.Kerry Rhodes wanted nothing to do with working overtime...Who else? Faneca??? He served a purpose as mentor for Brick and Mangold 2 years ago - Now he's a liability and I'll say exactly what Pitt fans said to Jets fans years ago - He's no longer what he once was.Who else?A Backup RB, a malcontent safety and an old declining Guard.... Those were the lost "Leaders"?I could very well be missing someone here help me out...In the mean time - that added Santonio Holmes, Cromartie, a top pick CB, LT, Taylor, they already had a G groomed behind Faneca who was recruited to play for the OL coach in college and a 2nd round pick..... Plus they get Kris Jenkins back.I don't know about you but, I'll take that all as a positive... We'll see, but, IMO this team is world ahead of where they were last year trying to implement all the new systems and get a rookie QB up to speed.... Last year was basically a rebuild / work in progress...IF HEALTHY, I look forward to seeing a team with a bit of a head start from last year's intro.
Look, I have no horse in this race. I think the Jets were good but not great last season. They won't have as great a record this season. Santonio is good but not great. Cromartie should be ashamed of the way he plays the run, Shonn Greene made him look like a schoolgirl out there. Rookies may or may not pan out. LT is a shell of his former self.
 
Look, I have no horse in this race. I think the Jets were good but not great last season. They won't have as great a record this season. Santonio is good but not great. Cromartie should be ashamed of the way he plays the run, Shonn Greene made him look like a schoolgirl out there. Rookies may or may not pan out. LT is a shell of his former self.
I was just wondering where "Dismantling a lot of the roster" came from...

Yeah, I'm a homer, but, I'm a football fan first and formost and love to hear some honest criticism of "my team".... But, that statement sounds a bit stretched IMO and overall I get a sense that there's a perception of the Jets offseason moves as "Redskin-Like".... I was talking to someone this weekend who brought that up - probably read 1 article that said it - My question is "Where are the huge Redskin like contracts and who got the money???" It didn't happen - The Jets couldn't sign Brandon Marshall to a Huge deal - they signed Holmes for a 1 year tryout on the cheap.. Same with Edwards he's on his CHEAP 2 year tryout... LT - Cheap, Taylor - Cheap... Jenkins - already signed... Where are the FA moves? Where is the turnover?

I just don't see where perception meets reality in all this "Dismantling / Spending Spree / turnover" talk.

So, we agree we're talking about a backup RB, a malcontent safety and Faneca (a shell of his former self)?

You can say Cromartie is bad against the run but, he is a better man to man guy than Zone and is certainly an upgrade from what was here in every facet.

Hey, I know and love the NFL - I know the Jets can fall flat on their faces - I'm just not seeing the reasons correctly stated....

The Jets start off with The Ravens, the Pats and the Dolphins......

The Ravens are at least a year ahead in development with a better RB a more experienced QB and a great D, The Pats are holding on to a Dynasty and Miami is a very similar team and always an extremely tough division team who swept them last year...

THE JETS COULD VERY WELL START OFF 0-3.....

And that has absolutley nothing to do with being the Redskins or dismantling anything... It has to do with the NFL, parity and the Jets being who they are - just another hopeful contender on the upswing looking to stay healthy.

But, I'm sure after an 0-3 start, which certainly won't be the end of the world to a realistic Jets fan like myself, people will come tooting their horns.

 
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Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season. So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
Taking an AFC championship game team and dismantling a lot of the roster and jettisoning the veterans who got you there are great moves? :bowtie:
It sure sounds like you have a horse in this race. Lost Fanecca: Might hurt the rush offense, but the pass protection will be better with Slauson at LG= washLost Jones: Jones wore down last year, and may this year only be a shell of his former self too. Replaced by LT/Greene= washLost Sheppard: Picked up Cromarti who is much better in coverage, and drafted Wilsom, a promising rookie CB= improvedLost Rhodes: Addition by subtraction. He was a liability in Ryan's defense. Picked up Brodney Pool, who is better than Rhodes but has a concussion history= wash at worst, likely an improvementAdded J Taylor: Pass rush specialist, can only help= improvedAdded Holmes: Holmes or Clowney/B Smith? = improvedLost L Washington; Added LT, McKnight, John Connor and still have Chauncey Washington= possible improvement actually. The Jets were without Washington for quite a few games last year. He comes off a very serious injury. That is FAR from a dismantling. In fact, compared to most NFL teams, that isn't much turnover at all. I agree, the Jets were good last year, far from great, but I see this team as having improved, not dismantled. Sanchez has a year under his belt now. Perhaps those 3 and 4 INT games are mostly behind him. I see no justification to project a backward slide at all. Um.... that horse of yours.... just threw it's jockey.
 
Look, I have no horse in this race. I think the Jets were good but not great last season. They won't have as great a record this season. Santonio is good but not great. Cromartie should be ashamed of the way he plays the run, Shonn Greene made him look like a schoolgirl out there. Rookies may or may not pan out. LT is a shell of his former self.
I was just wondering where "Dismantling a lot of the roster" came from...

Yeah, I'm a homer, but, I'm a football fan first and formost and love to hear some honest criticism of "my team".... But, that statement sounds a bit stretched IMO and overall I get a sense that there's a perception of the Jets offseason moves as "Redskin-Like".... I was talking to someone this weekend who brought that up - probably read 1 article that said it - My question is "Where are the huge Redskin like contracts and who got the money???" It didn't happen - The Jets couldn't sign Brandon Marshall to a Huge deal - they signed Holmes for a 1 year tryout on the cheap.. Same with Edwards he's on his CHEAP 2 year tryout... LT - Cheap, Taylor - Cheap... Jenkins - already signed... Where are the FA moves? Where is the turnover?

I just don't see where perception meets reality in all this "Dismantling / Spending Spree / turnover" talk.

So, we agree we're talking about a backup RB, a malcontent safety and Faneca (a shell of his former self)?

You can say Cromartie is bad against the run but, he is a better man to man guy than Zone and is certainly an upgrade from what was here in every facet.

Hey, I know and love the NFL - I know the Jets can fall flat on their faces - I'm just not seeing the reasons correctly stated....

The Jets start off with The Ravens, the Pats and the Dolphins......

The Ravens are at least a year ahead in development with a better RB a more experienced QB and a great D, The Pats are holding on to a Dynasty and Miami is a very similar team and always an extremely tough division team who swept them last year...

THE JETS COULD VERY WELL START OFF 0-3.....

And that has absolutley nothing to do with being the Redskins or dismantling anything... It has to do with the NFL, parity and the Jets being who they are - just another hopeful contender on the upswing looking to stay healthy.

But, I'm sure after an 0-3 start, which certainly won't be the end of the world to a realistic Jets fan like myself, people will come tooting their horns.
How many new starters this season? I don't know what they spent, and frankly it doesn't matter. But they have a lot of roster turnover. Almost a quarter of their starters from 2009 won't be starters for them in 2010. Chemistry is a big deal, it just is. I think they tinkered too much. I don't see the wisdom in subtracting veterans and forcing youth into key roles on a team that made the AFC Championship game. Among playoff teams, I believe only the Eagles and Colts turned over more players. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
Sabertooth said:
The wheels come off the Jets this season. They caught the league by surprise last year. That won't be the case this season and they also lost their most effective offensive weapons in Leon and Jones. They are a paper tiger and will not be as good as last season.

So all that said, Sanchez might be asked to do more because they won't be fighting in 13-10 games as much. Whether he can do anything with inconsistent weapons like Braylon and Santonio will be interesting to watch.
I could not disagree more. It is not like Rex Ryan defensive schemes have not been tested over and over again in Baltimore. If any team was surprised by how good they were then they shouldn't have been. I expect them to be one of the top defenses in the league again. I fail to see how a team so strong in the trenches can be called a paper tiger. There most effective offensive weapons were their RBs only because the line can block so well. I expect them to able to run effectively no matter who they give the rock to. I am not a fan of Sanchez. However, he has one of the better supporting casts in the league. I expect his passing numbers will improve only slightly but they will likely win two or three more close games as a result.
Agreed. IMO they are anything but a paper tiger and will emerge as one of the perennial contenders in the AFC over the next 5-6 years. Ryan is making great moves and his teams should only get better with each passing season.
Taking an AFC championship game team and dismantling a lot of the roster and jettisoning the veterans who got you there are great moves? :confused:
It sure sounds like you have a horse in this race. Lost Fanecca: Might hurt the rush offense, but the pass protection will be better with Slauson at LG= wash

Lost Jones: Jones wore down last year, and may this year only be a shell of his former self too. Replaced by LT/Greene= wash

Lost Sheppard: Picked up Cromarti who is much better in coverage, and drafted Wilsom, a promising rookie CB= improved

Lost Rhodes: Addition by subtraction. He was a liability in Ryan's defense. Picked up Brodney Pool, who is better than Rhodes but has a concussion history= wash at worst, likely an improvement

Added J Taylor: Pass rush specialist, can only help= improved

Added Holmes: Holmes or Clowney/B Smith? = improved

Lost L Washington; Added LT, McKnight, John Connor and still have Chauncey Washington= possible improvement actually. The Jets were without Washington for quite a few games last year. He comes off a very serious injury.

That is FAR from a dismantling. In fact, compared to most NFL teams, that isn't much turnover at all.

I agree, the Jets were good last year, far from great, but I see this team as having improved, not dismantled. Sanchez has a year under his belt now. Perhaps those 3 and 4 INT games are mostly behind him. I see no justification to project a backward slide at all. Um.... that horse of yours.... just threw it's jockey.
This is wrong. Only 9 teams had more turnover. Most are the dregs of the league. Link.
 
The Jets will feature new starters at LG, CB, S. Since Rhodes was getting benched, just who WAS the safety opposite Leonhard? I think it is safe to say that Greene was the starter at the end of last year. Sheppard was getting benched too. I could easilly agrue that the Jets will only change ONE starting position from last year's playoff run, and that would be LG. I don't know where your source comes up with 17 returning starters, but THAT is wrong, not my info. As far as reserves go, it's a long time before final cuts, how can this guy even attempt to gauge turnover?

Your jockey has now been trampled by the rest of the field. Fortunately for him, he was only in 15th place in a 32 horse race.

 
I am PUMPED for AFC East divisional action :rolleyes: . As much as I cannot STAND the Jets, they have really come along the past few years and have made the divisional games much more exciting! :pickle: I could see them as a team that could either:

1. Become A LOT better, especially offensively

2. Could sustain what they accomplished last year

3. Could get just slightly worse

In no way could I imagine them getting a lot worse this year, especially with the moves they make. I would only think that injury, unmet potential, and bad chemistry could make them any worse.

 
The Jets will feature new starters at LG, CB, S. Since Rhodes was getting benched, just who WAS the safety opposite Leonhard? I think it is safe to say that Greene was the starter at the end of last year. Sheppard was getting benched too. I could easilly agrue that the Jets will only change ONE starting position from last year's playoff run, and that would be LG. I don't know where your source comes up with 17 returning starters, but THAT is wrong, not my info. As far as reserves go, it's a long time before final cuts, how can this guy even attempt to gauge turnover? Your jockey has now been trampled by the rest of the field. Fortunately for him, he was only in 15th place in a 32 horse race.
You don't think Santonio will start?
 
The Jets will feature new starters at LG, CB, S. Since Rhodes was getting benched, just who WAS the safety opposite Leonhard? I think it is safe to say that Greene was the starter at the end of last year. Sheppard was getting benched too. I could easilly agrue that the Jets will only change ONE starting position from last year's playoff run, and that would be LG. I don't know where your source comes up with 17 returning starters, but THAT is wrong, not my info. As far as reserves go, it's a long time before final cuts, how can this guy even attempt to gauge turnover? Your jockey has now been trampled by the rest of the field. Fortunately for him, he was only in 15th place in a 32 horse race.
You don't think Santonio will start?
Over Clowney. He's certainly not a key cog in some massive roster turnover.Do you get your info from PFT.com?
 
As I remember watching Sanchez last season, a lot of his "success" came on run-action passes where the defense had overcommitted to stopping the Jets' very effective running game. This combined with the fact that his attempts numbers were historically low made him appear better than he is.

That 5.5% interception number bothers me, not because it is so high, but because it is so high on a team that threw so little and ran so well.

Take a look at this chart to put the rookie season INT % in perspective:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/n4tkT

The chart shows descending interception % index numbers for rookie quarterbacks aged 22-23 who started at least 12 games. (1950-2009)

Just my opinion, but he's a poor man's Cade McNown who happens to play on a very good team.

It's possible that the Jets will be able to continue to hide him with low attempts numbers this year as well. To be fair, look at Troy Aikman's season by season attempts numbers. He only had more than 400 passing attempts once in his first 6 years in the league.

 
As I remember watching Sanchez last season, a lot of his "success" came on run-action passes where the defense had overcommitted to stopping the Jets' very effective running game. This combined with the fact that his attempts numbers were historically low made him appear better than he is.

That 5.5% interception number bothers me, not because it is so high, but because it is so high on a team that threw so little and ran so well.

Take a look at this chart to put the rookie season INT % in perspective:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/n4tkT

The chart shows descending interception % index numbers for rookie quarterbacks aged 22-23 who started at least 12 games. (1950-2009)

Just my opinion, but he's a poor man's Cade McNown who happens to play on a very good team.

It's possible that the Jets will be able to continue to hide him with low attempts numbers this year as well. To be fair, look at Troy Aikman's season by season attempts numbers. He only had more than 400 passing attempts once in his first 6 years in the league.
No doubt, Sanchez has much to prove. Honestly, I didn't like the pick when the Jets drafted him. By week 10, I was sure I was right about that. I mean having to wear wrist bands to remind him how much risk to take on a play by play level? But it seems to have worked, however the jury has barely left the courtroom. He did play well in the late season games and playoffs, but was not asked to carry the team with his passing either. As I said earlier, I can easilly see the Jets limiting Sanchez's att/game to 20 or less once again, if game situations permit. They will pass, and pass deep just often enough to keep the play action working. Sanchez displayed some immaturity last year, but he's a year older and perhaps wiser. Great work ethic, film room addict. Offered to pay for his WR's to come to his place for off season work. While LT is not what he used to be, he's a better 3rd down pass catcher than Jones was. Sanchez has a new safety blanket.

Sanchez's pass protection should improve with the change at LG. It can't get much worse, Fanecca had the lowest rating in pass protection for all OG's last year. I look for a slight uptick in pass attempts, and a big decline in INT/att ratio.

 
The Jets will feature new starters at LG, CB, S. Since Rhodes was getting benched, just who WAS the safety opposite Leonhard? I think it is safe to say that Greene was the starter at the end of last year. Sheppard was getting benched too. I could easilly agrue that the Jets will only change ONE starting position from last year's playoff run, and that would be LG. I don't know where your source comes up with 17 returning starters, but THAT is wrong, not my info. As far as reserves go, it's a long time before final cuts, how can this guy even attempt to gauge turnover? Your jockey has now been trampled by the rest of the field. Fortunately for him, he was only in 15th place in a 32 horse race.
You don't think Santonio will start?
Over Clowney. He's certainly not a key cog in some massive roster turnover.Do you get your info from PFT.com?
I posted a link :hey:
 
Rovers said:
As I remember watching Sanchez last season, a lot of his "success" came on run-action passes where the defense had overcommitted to stopping the Jets' very effective running game. This combined with the fact that his attempts numbers were historically low made him appear better than he is.

That 5.5% interception number bothers me, not because it is so high, but because it is so high on a team that threw so little and ran so well.

Take a look at this chart to put the rookie season INT % in perspective:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/n4tkT

The chart shows descending interception % index numbers for rookie quarterbacks aged 22-23 who started at least 12 games. (1950-2009)

Just my opinion, but he's a poor man's Cade McNown who happens to play on a very good team.

It's possible that the Jets will be able to continue to hide him with low attempts numbers this year as well. To be fair, look at Troy Aikman's season by season attempts numbers. He only had more than 400 passing attempts once in his first 6 years in the league.
No doubt, Sanchez has much to prove. Honestly, I didn't like the pick when the Jets drafted him. By week 10, I was sure I was right about that. I mean having to wear wrist bands to remind him how much risk to take on a play by play level? But it seems to have worked, however the jury has barely left the courtroom. He did play well in the late season games and playoffs, but was not asked to carry the team with his passing either. As I said earlier, I can easilly see the Jets limiting Sanchez's att/game to 20 or less once again, if game situations permit. They will pass, and pass deep just often enough to keep the play action working. Sanchez displayed some immaturity last year, but he's a year older and perhaps wiser. Great work ethic, film room addict. Offered to pay for his WR's to come to his place for off season work. While LT is not what he used to be, he's a better 3rd down pass catcher than Jones was. Sanchez has a new safety blanket.

Sanchez's pass protection should improve with the change at LG. It can't get much worse, Fanecca had the lowest rating in pass protection for all OG's last year. I look for a slight uptick in pass attempts, and a big decline in INT/att ratio.
So do Braylon, Keller, and Greene. Non have done much at all. But you seem to gloss over all that. Which makes it hard to have a rational discussion.
 
As I remember watching Sanchez last season, a lot of his "success" came on run-action passes where the defense had overcommitted to stopping the Jets' very effective running game. This combined with the fact that his attempts numbers were historically low made him appear better than he is.

That 5.5% interception number bothers me, not because it is so high, but because it is so high on a team that threw so little and ran so well.

Take a look at this chart to put the rookie season INT % in perspective:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/n4tkT

The chart shows descending interception % index numbers for rookie quarterbacks aged 22-23 who started at least 12 games. (1950-2009)

Just my opinion, but he's a poor man's Cade McNown who happens to play on a very good team.

It's possible that the Jets will be able to continue to hide him with low attempts numbers this year as well. To be fair, look at Troy Aikman's season by season attempts numbers. He only had more than 400 passing attempts once in his first 6 years in the league.
Oh yeah. I find this discussion much more grounded than talk of a Great Roster purge....

The lack of experience for Sanchez is remarkable... Poor Mans Mcnown seems overboard though.

Again, he works as hard as any QB out there and to me, that often differentiates the Jamarcus Russel's from the QB who can develop quickly....

I do think that his INT number were inflated a little and that at times the Jets tried to "test" Sanchez and put more on his plate in situations that didn't call for it - The entire Bills game comes to mind - There was no reason to throw that game, the Jets were winning anmd the Bills were completely nuetralized yet the Jets kept having Mark throw until he racked up 6 INTS... Bills fans in the game thread were in shock.....

But, yeah, Mark Sanchez and his development is probably the biggest reason why I don't go talking SuperBowl.... Other than the fact that the NFL is incredibly dependent on Health and a bit of luck.

 
The Jets will feature new starters at LG, CB, S. Since Rhodes was getting benched, just who WAS the safety opposite Leonhard? I think it is safe to say that Greene was the starter at the end of last year. Sheppard was getting benched too. I could easilly agrue that the Jets will only change ONE starting position from last year's playoff run, and that would be LG. I don't know where your source comes up with 17 returning starters, but THAT is wrong, not my info. As far as reserves go, it's a long time before final cuts, how can this guy even attempt to gauge turnover? Your jockey has now been trampled by the rest of the field. Fortunately for him, he was only in 15th place in a 32 horse race.
You don't think Santonio will start?
Over Clowney. He's certainly not a key cog in some massive roster turnover.Do you get your info from PFT.com?
I posted a link :confused:
I don't see it... Please repost...I asked not to be a ####... But, I've read PFT since it's inception and long ago Mike Florio discovered that if you tweak certain fans, especially New York , you get a lot more heated debates and "Site Hits"...So, every Jets article (I know.... he does this for other teams as well) is usually a wild distortion of the truth written through a worst case scenario prism....If you got all you team info from stories and links at PFT I could see some wild Redskin-like comparisons, stories of unhappy players, Blowing up a roster, mutiny, blackouts and an owner that makes every player move based on PSLs and not actually getting the best players for the team.That said.. The Jets moves were made with the knowledge that they had to pay a lot of Huge salaries in the near future. They were also made with the approval of team coaches that the younger guys could step in.... To be successful you need to draft well and keep the pump primed.. So, far the Jets have had some pretty good drafts.
 
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I agree, the Jets were good last year, far from great, but I see this team as having improved, not dismantled. Sanchez has a year under his belt now. Perhaps those 3 and 4 INT games are mostly behind him. I see no justification to project a backward slide at all. Um.... that horse of yours.... just threw it's jockey.
This is wrong. Only 9 teams had more turnover. Most are the dregs of the league. Link.
 
I agree, the Jets were good last year, far from great, but I see this team as having improved, not dismantled. Sanchez has a year under his belt now. Perhaps those 3 and 4 INT games are mostly behind him. I see no justification to project a backward slide at all. Um.... that horse of yours.... just threw it's jockey.
This is wrong. Only 9 teams had more turnover. Most are the dregs of the league. Link.
immediately below jets are the panthers, eagles, colts and broncos... not exactly dregs...to say they blew up their roster seems a bit extreme...

thomas jones and faneca are senior citizens in NFL terms... as a rams fan, i wish they had been more proactive and let some gus like pace go a year early instead of a year late... LT isn't what he was physically, but could be functional behind the OL... maybe he can have a goal line role like marcus allen in twilight of his career... he is a very good receiver out of the backfield...

holmes was called an enigma... he is troubled off the field (why they got him for a bargain basement 5th), but indisputably talented on it... edwards has among the best natural talent in the game, but hasn't always actualized it... holmes, in terms of using what he has, is the jets best WR... keller caught a TD in each playoff game and showed signs of breaking out... if i was a DC, the jets receiving weapons are more dangerous and harder to game plan against (cotchery could start for some teams, now WR3, slot - when holmes returns)...

not sure how much jenkins will be able to contribute, but as noted, they did well in his absence, so whatever he can provide is gravy... similarly, not sure how much jason taylor has in the tank, but he could provide some big plays in a situational role...

cromartie looked like a star a few years ago, didn't play as well last year... no doubt he is better against the pass, and not physical in the run, but the jets alluded to being confident they could fit him within their scheme to mask his deficiencies and emphasize his strengths... some scouts thought the browns were having internal debates about taking boise state CB kyle wilson instead of joe haden with their top 10 pick (reports have recently surfaced about whether haden is fast enough to play CB), so he was expected to go higher... he was a standout in the predraft process, and is known for his coverage skill (ryans scheme is predicated on strong man to man coverage from CBs, and they are now better equipped to face manning, brady, rivers, et al, in AFC)... rhodes has had ups and downs in his career (huge season a few years ago, led to one of the biggest contracts in the league for a safety, but he didn't play up to it... it was clear he wasn't a good fit in ryan's scheme, so no big loss there)... pool is talented, does have some flaws in coverage, but is also athletic like rhodes, and has better pedigree (2nd - 4th)... he may be more willing in run support (concussion history is a concern)... adding not only cromartie, but wilson, and pool looks like a better fit if healthy... the secondary appears stronger... getting jenkins back, adding taylor... once again, i think opposing OCs might be more concerned with the 2010 version of ryan's defense, despite finishing #1 in 2009...

making a move isn't a bad thing if you get an upgrade, like holmes, that is a positive... chemistry is important, but so is talent... and between ryan and some of the leadership on the team, i don't see it as an issue... if your team could add adrian peterson or calvin johnson, would you want them to beg off over chemistry concerns... :goodposting:

i realize change isn't inherently good, but neither bad... the jets have done a very impressive job assembling talent through the draft (if rams had taken sanchez last year, they would be a year further along in their development, and would have been in a position to take suh, consensus top overall player in 2010), and finding players through trade and free agency that didn't break the bank... i definitely am giving the GM and ryan the benefit of the doubt they know what they are doing in finding players that fit their scheme...

as has been pointed out though, they were inconsistent last year, didn't have a great record, and were helped getting into playoffs... they may not have been as good as would seem to be indicated by making it to AFC championship game... but it is amazing they got as far as they did, and a testament to their overall resiliency, that they did it breaking in a rookie QB... i agree, the worst should be over with his transition to the NFL, i would expect a dramatic reduction in INTs this year... hypothetically, they could play better this year but not do as well (personally, i think the cowboys and jets are on a collision course for the super bowl)...

 
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I agree, the Jets were good last year, far from great, but I see this team as having improved, not dismantled. Sanchez has a year under his belt now. Perhaps those 3 and 4 INT games are mostly behind him. I see no justification to project a backward slide at all. Um.... that horse of yours.... just threw it's jockey.
This is wrong. Only 9 teams had more turnover. Most are the dregs of the league. Link.
immediately below jets are the panthers, eagles, colts and broncos... not exactly dregs...to say they blew up their roster seems a bit extreme...

thomas jones and faneca are senior citizens in NFL terms... as a rams fan, i wish they had been more proactive and let some gus like pace go a year early instead of a year late... LT isn't what he was physically, but could be functional behind the OL... maybe he can have a goal line role like marcus allen in twilight of his career... he is a very good receiver out of the backfield...

holmes was called an enigma... he is troubled off the field (why they got him for a bargain basement 5th), but indisputably talented on it... edwards has among the best natural talent in the game, but hasn't always actualized it... holmes, in terms of using what he has, is the jets best WR... keller caught a TD in each playoff game and showed signs of breaking out... if i was a DC, the jets receiving weapons are more dangerous and harder to game plan against (cotchery could start for some teams, now WR3, slot - when holmes returns)...

not sure how much jenkins will be able to contribute, but as noted, they did well in his absence, so whatever he can provide is gravy... similarly, not sure how much jason taylor has in the tank, but he could provide some big plays in a situational role...

cromartie looked like a star a few years ago, didn't play as well last year... no doubt he is better against the pass, and not physical in the run, but the jets alluded to being confident they could fit him within their scheme to mask his deficiencies and emphasize his strengths... some scouts thought the browns were having internal debates about taking boise state CB kyle wilson instead of joe haden with their top 10 pick (reports have recently surfaced about whether haden is fast enough to play CB), so he was expected to go higher... he was a standout in the predraft process, and is known for his coverage skill (ryans scheme is predicated on strong man to man coverage from CBs, and they are now better equipped to face manning, brady, rivers, et al, in AFC)... rhodes has had ups and downs in his career (huge season a few years ago, led to one of the biggest contracts in the league for a safety, but he didn't play up to it... it was clear he wasn't a good fit in ryan's scheme, so no big loss there)... pool is talented, does have some flaws in coverage, but is also athletic like rhodes, and has better pedigree (2nd - 4th)... he may be more willing in run support (concussion history is a concern)... adding not only cromartie, but wilson, and pool looks like a better fit if healthy... the secondary appears stronger... getting jenkins back, adding taylor... once again, i think opposing OCs might be more concerned with the 2010 version of ryan's defense, despite finishing #1 in 2009...

making a move isn't a bad thing if you get an upgrade, like holmes, that is a positive... chemistry is important, but so is talent... and between ryan and some of the leadership on the team, i don't see it as an issue... if your team could add adrian peterson or calvin johnson, would you want them to beg off over chemistry concerns... :shrug:

i realize change isn't inherently good, but neither bad... the jets have done a very impressive job assembling talent through the draft (if rams had taken sanchez last year, they would be a year further along in their development, and would have been in a position to take suh, consensus top overall player in 2010), and finding players through trade and free agency that didn't break the bank... i definitely am giving the GM and ryan the benefit of the doubt they know what they are doing in finding players that fit their scheme...

as has been pointed out though, they were inconsistent last year, didn't have a great record, and were helped getting into playoffs... they may not have been as good as would seem to be indicated by making it to AFC championship game... but it is amazing they got as far as they did, and a testament to their overall resiliency, that they did it breaking in a rookie QB... i agree, the worst should be over with his transition to the NFL, i would expect a dramatic reduction in INTs this year... hypothetically, they could play better this year but not do as well (personally, i think the cowboys and jets are on a collision course for the super bowl)...
Ok, sorry. You guys are right. The Jets can't be worse unless everyone gets hurt. No chance Sanchez hits a sophomore slump. No chance Shonn Greene shows why he wasn't selected until the 3rd round and couldn't bump a dinosaur like Jones out of the lineup. Look believe whatever you want. That's why they play the games. Jets miss the playoffs this year, IMO. Too much tinkering on a team that didn't need it.

 
Ok, sorry. You guys are right. The Jets can't be worse unless everyone gets hurt. No chance Sanchez hits a sophomore slump. No chance Shonn Greene shows why he wasn't selected until the 3rd round and couldn't bump a dinosaur like Jones out of the lineup.

Look believe whatever you want. That's why they play the games. Jets miss the playoffs this year, IMO. Too much tinkering on a team that didn't need it.
i agree with you that green's ability to hold up is one of my bigger concerns... this is mitigated somewhat by how good the OL is, in case LT is pressed into a bigger role than expected... if ducasse starts, how quickly he can transition is also a concern... he is a raw talent that didn't play for a big time program (but he is an OG, not a LT)...i just don't think they blew up the team...

of course sanchez could slump... you have to look at other surrounding factors to see how likely it is... i think since he wasn't that experienced at USC, his rookie year was a more difficult transition than for stafford and freeman... but as has been noted, you have to like what you hear about his character, work ethic, leadership, intangibles...

below is an offseason article on sanchez... this is in addition to reports that he brought out jets WRs and positional coaches (?) to san diego at his expense to get in extra offseason work while he was rehabbing... his fellow rookies praised him last year for getting them together to put in extra work in able to learn the playbook faster... he has a lot in common with matt ryan, in terms of doing things the right way to prepare...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...anchez-sw_N.htm

excerpt...

"Sanchez called on 2002 NFL MVP and four-time former Pro Bowl quarterback Rich Gannon to help in his bid to make a return trip. For the Jets to make that quantum leap, Sanchez knows he has to be a much better quarterback than he was during an uneven rookie campaign that was buoyed by a deep playoff drive but also an AFC-worst 20 interceptions (to go with 12 touchdown passes).

Meeting with Gannon for two days could prove a more important step in Sanchez's development than his ongoing recovery from the patella tendon surgery performed on his left knee in February. Because of that rehabilitation, Sanchez has been virtually living at the team's Florham Park, N.J., training complex, where he showed Gannon how serious he is about developing into a championship-caliber signal caller.

"The great thing about Mark is he doesn't just want to be good; he wants to be great," Gannon says. "And he's willing to put in the work to get there.

"He has a very bright future."

Gannon cited the need for Sanchez to sharpen his decision making on third down and in the fourth quarter, when Sanchez threw half of his interceptions.

"We watched the interception and sack reels until 8 o'clock at night," says Gannon, now an analyst for CBS and Sirius NFL Radio. "Then he had to get treatment the next morning. I was up at 6 and in at 7 watching the film with him.

"I really applaud a guy like that who wants to get better."

Sanchez was also sacked 26 times and fumbled 10 times, including the infamous strip sack in Week 4 against the New Orleans Saints when defensive tackle Remi Ayodele pounced on the ball for a Saints touchdown. Earlier in that contest, the Jets' first loss of the season, Sanchez locked on to tight end Dustin Keller and fired a pass his way … which was read and pilfered by safety Darren Sharper and returned 99 yards to pay dirt. Fourteen gift points in a 24-10 defeat.

"It's just the awareness in certain situations," Gannon says. "It wasn't poor mechanics or footwork with him. It was the mental mistakes and location of his throws. I mentioned third-down passing, which he was last in the AFC."

Gannon equated it to a golfer being more disciplined in his risk taking and course management in order to lower his score. "He completed 53% of his passes, and if just a handful a things changed, that number could jump to 63%," he says.

If Sanchez can transpose his stat line to 20 touchdowns and 12 pickoffs, the Jets could be a Super Bowl-bound team.

Gannon was also impressed by Sanchez's grit, noting how many first-team snaps he took May 18, his second day back on the field as he works back from his operation.

"This kid is back already throwing and is much further along than I thought he would be," Gannon says. "The goal is to have him back almost 100% by June 14 minicamp. He's throwing the ball particularly well, even though he told me he's not 100% yet with that knee.

"I don't think it's going to be an issue."

Gannon emphasized the need for Sanchez to preserve his body over a full season. His inability to slide led to a separate knee injury, costing him a start against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on Dec. 13.

But it does seem Sanchez is doing all he can in the name of self help.

"I would have cherished an older player who played 17 years to open up his handbook and say, 'Here's what you can accomplish watching film before you walk in the building,' " Gannon says. "It's incredible what this guy has accomplished already in winning playoff games on the road in Cincinnati and in San Diego. He's a leader with a great deal of toughness."

And Sanchez's Jets — who added wideout and former Super Bowl MVP Santonio Holmes to a passing game featuring Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery and Keller — could be a tough out in 2010.

"If they can have a little bit better balance and get to be the 15th-ranked passing team (from 31st last year), boy, the Jets can do some damage."

 
I agree, the Jets were good last year, far from great, but I see this team as having improved, not dismantled. Sanchez has a year under his belt now. Perhaps those 3 and 4 INT games are mostly behind him. I see no justification to project a backward slide at all. Um.... that horse of yours.... just threw it's jockey.
This is wrong. Only 9 teams had more turnover. Most are the dregs of the league. Link.
immediately below jets are the panthers, eagles, colts and broncos... not exactly dregs...to say they blew up their roster seems a bit extreme...

thomas jones and faneca are senior citizens in NFL terms... as a rams fan, i wish they had been more proactive and let some gus like pace go a year early instead of a year late... LT isn't what he was physically, but could be functional behind the OL... maybe he can have a goal line role like marcus allen in twilight of his career... he is a very good receiver out of the backfield...

holmes was called an enigma... he is troubled off the field (why they got him for a bargain basement 5th), but indisputably talented on it... edwards has among the best natural talent in the game, but hasn't always actualized it... holmes, in terms of using what he has, is the jets best WR... keller caught a TD in each playoff game and showed signs of breaking out... if i was a DC, the jets receiving weapons are more dangerous and harder to game plan against (cotchery could start for some teams, now WR3, slot - when holmes returns)...

not sure how much jenkins will be able to contribute, but as noted, they did well in his absence, so whatever he can provide is gravy... similarly, not sure how much jason taylor has in the tank, but he could provide some big plays in a situational role...

cromartie looked like a star a few years ago, didn't play as well last year... no doubt he is better against the pass, and not physical in the run, but the jets alluded to being confident they could fit him within their scheme to mask his deficiencies and emphasize his strengths... some scouts thought the browns were having internal debates about taking boise state CB kyle wilson instead of joe haden with their top 10 pick (reports have recently surfaced about whether haden is fast enough to play CB), so he was expected to go higher... he was a standout in the predraft process, and is known for his coverage skill (ryans scheme is predicated on strong man to man coverage from CBs, and they are now better equipped to face manning, brady, rivers, et al, in AFC)... rhodes has had ups and downs in his career (huge season a few years ago, led to one of the biggest contracts in the league for a safety, but he didn't play up to it... it was clear he wasn't a good fit in ryan's scheme, so no big loss there)... pool is talented, does have some flaws in coverage, but is also athletic like rhodes, and has better pedigree (2nd - 4th)... he may be more willing in run support (concussion history is a concern)... adding not only cromartie, but wilson, and pool looks like a better fit if healthy... the secondary appears stronger... getting jenkins back, adding taylor... once again, i think opposing OCs might be more concerned with the 2010 version of ryan's defense, despite finishing #1 in 2009...

making a move isn't a bad thing if you get an upgrade, like holmes, that is a positive... chemistry is important, but so is talent... and between ryan and some of the leadership on the team, i don't see it as an issue... if your team could add adrian peterson or calvin johnson, would you want them to beg off over chemistry concerns... :)

i realize change isn't inherently good, but neither bad... the jets have done a very impressive job assembling talent through the draft (if rams had taken sanchez last year, they would be a year further along in their development, and would have been in a position to take suh, consensus top overall player in 2010), and finding players through trade and free agency that didn't break the bank... i definitely am giving the GM and ryan the benefit of the doubt they know what they are doing in finding players that fit their scheme...

as has been pointed out though, they were inconsistent last year, didn't have a great record, and were helped getting into playoffs... they may not have been as good as would seem to be indicated by making it to AFC championship game... but it is amazing they got as far as they did, and a testament to their overall resiliency, that they did it breaking in a rookie QB... i agree, the worst should be over with his transition to the NFL, i would expect a dramatic reduction in INTs this year... hypothetically, they could play better this year but not do as well (personally, i think the cowboys and jets are on a collision course for the super bowl)...
Ok, sorry. You guys are right. The Jets can't be worse unless everyone gets hurt. No chance Sanchez hits a sophomore slump. No chance Shonn Greene shows why he wasn't selected until the 3rd round and couldn't bump a dinosaur like Jones out of the lineup. Look believe whatever you want. That's why they play the games. Jets miss the playoffs this year, IMO. Too much tinkering on a team that didn't need it.
LOL... I only debated the Massive Roster turnover statements... .

I've stated numerous times that Mark Sanchez' development is a major issue and we don't know if Shonn Greene can hold up a whole season with his style - I said in the RB thread that I'll pass on Greene Fantasy wise at RB15 and might take a flyer on LT at RB50.

For the WR"s I probably won't be drafting the #1 or #2 Jet wr taken (whoever that may be) - But, I Might see value in whatever Jet WR is last to be taken since I think they can all produce about the same

But, you know Greene was dinged to start the year? and wasn't bumping out Thomas Jones early in year 1... The plan was exactly what happened... Ride Thomas Jones... Let the rookie learn the Pass protections and gradually give him more work load and at the end of the season evaluate wether he could be the starter VS TJ and contract issues... (saying he couldn't bump out a dinasour is a little silly, no?).. He ended the season as the starter and the Jets were convinced he was the 10' starter - Then they went to TJ who wanted starter money and a raise - that just wasn't in the plans for a team with so much young talent to Re-Up.

The plan for the Jets or any team is to draft players and then watch their development IF in year 2 or 3 they can come even close to the veteran then make the move, save a little money and move on - I think most franchises want to "tinker" that way yearly. Even more so when you have 4-5 major contracts from some great drafts coming up all at once.

I'll tell you right now so, lets not act surprised later on - Super Bowl or 7-9, the Jets are going to have just as much turnover next year.... Their salary structure and pretty good drafts with young guys looking to get paid makes it that way... That's why the Jets signed a few guys for little $$$$ looking for deals next year - The Jets probably won't be able to pay Cromartie, Edwards and Holmes if they all play lights out - But, what the Jets did do was fill holes and get "Hold the fort" guys with probably a lot more talent than your average "Hold the fort" guy.

 
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Are we talking redraft? Cotchery is a very avg WR
If you watched the Jets a little more closely i think you would have a lot more respect for Cotchery. He doesnt have elite speed but hes outstanding in every other phase of the game for a WR. He may be an average fantasy WR but hes well above average as an NFL WR IMO.If you were only talking fantasy then id agree with you
 
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this time last year, the jets only had cotchery, but have since added two more 1,000 yard WRs...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/06/w...ard_wrs_at.html

With trio of 1,000 yard WRs at their disposal, Jets haye eye on versatile passing game

Published: Friday, June 18, 2010, 8:00 AM

Jenny Vrentas/The Star-Ledger

"Jerricho Cotchery, Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes each have 1,000-yard receiving seasons on the books and hundreds of pro catches to their names.

But as Jets offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer gameplanned in his Florham Park office this offseason, until 9 or 10 p.m. some nights, he had a different take on if there would be enough touches to go around.

"We have three No. 1 receivers, as I see it," Schottenheimer said recently. "So in the third, fourth quarter, you’ve got a guy that’s fresh, that’s maybe only played 30 plays. Whereas the corners and the guys on defense trying to stop these guys have played 65, 70 plays."

At this time last year, the Jets had just one of those three receivers — Cotchery — and a rookie quarterback in Mark Sanchez. A more developed passing game is an objective for this season.

One key will be the top receivers being "interchangeable," Schottenheimer said, and able to "move all around" the field — an aim which they spent the offseason working toward, starting with new assignments.

Cotchery, who played the "Z" receiver, or flanker, last season, learned the intricacies of the slot. Edwards, who has played the "X" receiver, or split end, for the past three seasons, was asked to master flanker. Holmes, brand-new to the offense after an April trade, has absorbed as much as he can starting with his familiar split end position.

"Some days are better than others, because ‘Schotty’ loves to throw a wrench in there every now and then," Cotchery said. "I think once we get it all down, we’ll be very hard to stop."

Cotchery was a natural candidate to work on the slot position, because he has played in the Jets’ offense for six full seasons and has banked the most time with Sanchez. He said there are more options in the slot, since your route depends on what the defense is doing, so it’s critical to make good decisions and be on the same page as the quarterback.

Edwards has also worked briefly in the slot, but his primary focus has been getting down the flanker position. He said he’s put in extra film study with Sanchez and Schottenheimer — some of it spent watching tape of Cotchery from last season.

The biggest adjustment, Edwards said, has been learning the pre-snap motions, which are not part of the stationary split end position. Schottenheimer likes having him off the ball, instead of being jammed at the line by opposing defensive backs.

Since the flanker is generally on the strong-side of the formation, where the Jets direct a lot of their runs, they also wanted to take advantage of the run-blocking skills Edwards showed last season.

"A lot of the things that we do are strong-side runs, where he has to block what we call ‘MDM’ or ‘most dangerous man,’" Schottenheimer said. "Most of those safeties don’t like it when he comes barreling down in there trying to get them."

Holmes, who had 1,248 receiving yards as the Steelers’ split end last season, approached Schottenheimer about moving around, something he did not do in Pittsburgh. Schottenheimer was impressed, and said Holmes has made some good plays out of the slot in practice, but added he still has a lot of work to do to pick up the system.

Holmes will miss the first four games of the season, as a result of violating the league’s substance-abuse policy. But the combinations and possibilities among the trio have them excited to take "the next step" as an offense, Cotchery said.

"We’ve all put in a body of work," Edwards said. "We’ve all had numbers, and we’ve all made plays. And now we feel good working together. I think we have the chance just to be something really special."

________________________________________________________________________________

an article on the evolution of sanchez as his second season approaches...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/06/t...hez_improv.html

Three ways Mark Sanchez improved his game this offseason

Published: Thursday, June 17, 2010, 5:00 PM

Jenny Vrentas/The Star-Ledger

"Rex Ryan has never been shy about offering effusive praise for one of his players, when he feels they deserve it. And on the final day of mini-camp yesterday, the Jets head coach had strong words about Mark Sanchez, saying the franchise quarterback had worked harder this offseason than any other player he's been around.

Part of that, of course, was Sanchez's rehab from February knee surgery. The rest was devoted to making the critical jump from rookie to second-year quarterback.

"He did some good things for us last year, but he also did things that hurt us," said Matt Cavanaugh, the Jets' quarterbacks coach. "We’re trying to help him eliminate those bad things."

Here's a look at three areas they targeted for improvement, and how they attacked them:

Understanding opposing defenses. After Sanchez was drafted, he had a little more than four months to prepare for his opening-day start. That meant his coaches spent almost all their time teaching him the Jets offense. The next lesson, mastering what defenses are doing, was put on the backburner. So this spring, the focus was on understanding what's going on on the other side of the ball: Defensive fronts. How coverages fit behind certain fronts. Pre-snap keys to identify what the defense is doing. Cavanaugh would draw formations on the white board or hand him a diagram, then put it to life on film.

"On this level, there are so many variations," Cavanaugh said. "He needed to get used to seeing certain looks and figure out what's probable."

Cleaning up his footwork. Cavanaugh said Sanchez is "a natural passer," so they didn't do much with his throwing motion. But they identified several flaws in his footwork. While he was laid up after his surgery, they set the foundation by showing him film, both of himself last season and of other NFL quarterbacks who have impeccable footwork. The footage, Cavanaugh said, was an eyeopener for Sanchez.

Once he was up and moving, he put the lessons into motion. On the list: Making sure his lead foot pointed where he wanted to go. Transferring weight from back foot to front foot. Hitching up in the pocket so he's not in a vulnerable spot.

"When he's had time to set and throw, we saw inconsistency, and that's what we were trying to eliminate," Cavanaugh said. What was the effect last season? "We felt it was just inaccuracy," Cavanaugh continued. "The ball was slightly behind the receiver, when it should be in front. The was ball slightly above, when should be at the face or below. Probably if you want to take it to the extreme, he got in trouble with turnovers -- he didn’t have his feet set the way he wanted, the ball wasn’t where he wanted it to go, and it was an interception."

Throwing to his left side. Sanchez mentioned earlier this offseason that he now feels better throwing across his body than he ever has. The root is something else his coaches noticed on film: That the right-hander had issues opening his hip and shoulder when he made throws to the left. First, they showed him cut-ups on film of the throws he made to the left. Then, once he was healthy, they had him stand on the field and do repetitions of those same throws over and over.

"That's one of the things we still harp on," Cavanaugh said. "He's still got room for improvement."

But Cavanaugh said he already saw the work Sanchez did in the offseason showing up in the practice film from OTAs and mini-camp, which he said his player is excited about. He hopes the ultimate result is a more developed passing game than the Jets had last season."

_______________________________________________________________________________

last year, they didn't want to throw too much at sanchez as a rookie... this year, he is trying to master the intricacies of protection schemes, knowing everybody's assignment on the offense... one reason i am optimistic on sanchez long term, so much of being a QB is about intangibles, and his are off the charts...

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2010...huge-strid.html

Mark Sanchez making huge strides with his understanding of protections

By Manish Mehta

"For all the questions and (over)analysis surrounding Mark Sanchez’s comeback from offseason arthroscopic left knee surgery, the 23-year-old is quietly making huge strides in his growth and development as a pro quarterback.

Sanchez has made significant progress in the classroom that could go a long way for a team with Super Bowl aspirations in 2010.

So, what has the franchise quarterback learned in the past few months?

Let’s take a closer look:

Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer’s top priority this offseason was to improve Sanchez’s understanding of protections.

“Mark knew the protections last year, but he didn’t really know the protections,” Schottenheimer told me. “He didn’t really know all the issues that came with the protections. That’s not unlike most young quarterbacks. So we’re trying to make him get caught up with that.”

Although Sanchez recognized that a specific defensive front called for seven- or -eight-man protection, he didn’t know the specific responsibilities of each offensive lineman. He just knew he was protected.

The Jets’ veteran offensive line took care of the details.

“Nick (Mangold), Brandon (Moore) and those guys solved a lot of problems for Mark,” Schottenheimer said. “But what we hope to do is decrease some of the sacks… we were a little high with sacks. That just comes with Mark understanding the protections. So if they bring two, we run a hot. If they bring two, we run a ‘visual breakoff.’ There’s so much more to it than people would ever even begin to think of.”

Each test focuses on Sanchez’s understanding in two areas:

1) The pass route concept

2) Protections

Sanchez’s strength during his rookie year was pass route understanding. So, Schottenheimer has spent the bulk of this offseason helping his quarterback grasp the multi-layered protection concepts.

Here’s how it works: Schottenheimer will present a basic “Mid” protection on the grease board and ask Sanchez to “block it up.” Sanchez initially identifies the middle — or Mike — linebacker (the fulcrum for any adjustments/audibles) before Schottenheimer gives him a series of “if-then” scenarios: If we move this defensive player into the 'A' gap, then how does the protection change?

How intricate was the test?

Sanchez was given about 10 different defensive fronts with six or seven variations off each front in a test last Wednesday. That’s about 60 or 70 different scenarios to study for just one protection scheme.

“He knew the protection last year. He knew what ‘Mid’ was, for example, but he didn’t know everybody else’s job,” Schottenheimer admitted. “He just knew, ‘Hey I’m protected’… We’re trying to get him to where he knows Nick’s job and Nick’s call and Brandon’s job and the tight end’s rule… He always knew his job. He just didn’t know everybody else’s job. The great quarterbacks have to know everybody else’s job…. like Peyton (Manning) and (Drew) Brees.”

For all the talk about Sanchez developing chemistry with his wide receivers, Schottenheimer emphasized that the hardest thing for young quarterbacks to learn is the protection matrix.

“It’s one of the most important things too,” Schottenheimer said. “But when you’re saying, ‘Okay, we got a young quarterback and we got to go play with him,’ you have cheat in some areas. With the offensive line that we had last year, we were comfortable saying to Mark, ‘Okay, here’s this protection. The line will kind of handle it. You don’t know it all. You just worry about your reads and progressions.’”

Schottenheimer admitted that Sanchez would have received a 75-80 grade on that test last week.

Now, here's the amazing part: “If you gave that test to Mark at the end of the season,” Schottenheimer said, “he probably would have gotten a 50 or a 40.”

In essence, the Jets made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game last season with their rookie quarterback knowing about half of what he could know in 2011.

Schottenheimer wants Sanchez to ace the exam before the start of training camp.

“We challenged Mark more with things than probably a lot of young quarterbacks,” Schottenheimer said. “It’s not that he can’t handle it in any way, shape or form. He had a really good feel for routes more so than protections last year. He was really strong with routes and solid with protections. We’re trying to get him really good with protections while strengthening his understanding of the routes.”

 
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As I remember watching Sanchez last season, a lot of his "success" came on run-action passes where the defense had overcommitted to stopping the Jets' very effective running game. This combined with the fact that his attempts numbers were historically low made him appear better than he is.

That 5.5% interception number bothers me, not because it is so high, but because it is so high on a team that threw so little and ran so well.

Take a look at this chart to put the rookie season INT % in perspective:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/n4tkT

The chart shows descending interception % index numbers for rookie quarterbacks aged 22-23 who started at least 12 games. (1950-2009)

Just my opinion, but he's a poor man's Cade McNown who happens to play on a very good team.

It's possible that the Jets will be able to continue to hide him with low attempts numbers this year as well. To be fair, look at Troy Aikman's season by season attempts numbers. He only had more than 400 passing attempts once in his first 6 years in the league.
No doubt, Sanchez has much to prove. Honestly, I didn't like the pick when the Jets drafted him. By week 10, I was sure I was right about that. I mean having to wear wrist bands to remind him how much risk to take on a play by play level? But it seems to have worked, however the jury has barely left the courtroom. He did play well in the late season games and playoffs, but was not asked to carry the team with his passing either. As I said earlier, I can easilly see the Jets limiting Sanchez's att/game to 20 or less once again, if game situations permit. They will pass, and pass deep just often enough to keep the play action working. Sanchez displayed some immaturity last year, but he's a year older and perhaps wiser. Great work ethic, film room addict. Offered to pay for his WR's to come to his place for off season work. While LT is not what he used to be, he's a better 3rd down pass catcher than Jones was. Sanchez has a new safety blanket.

Sanchez's pass protection should improve with the change at LG. It can't get much worse, Fanecca had the lowest rating in pass protection for all OG's last year. I look for a slight uptick in pass attempts, and a big decline in INT/att ratio.
So do Braylon, Keller, and Greene. Non have done much at all. But you seem to gloss over all that. Which makes it hard to have a rational discussion.
I hardly glossed over Greene. I made it quite clear that he, specifically his durabilty, is in question, and it's a big question. What I said was IF Greene works out, the other pieces will fall into place. Then you go on about how Greene could not beat out Jones to be the starter. Well, actually, he eventaully did, even though Jones was having a career year. Is it any wonder the Jets would be reluctant to start TWO rookies in the offensive backfield? No, you leave the veteran in there with a rookie QB. Lastly, you claim you can't have a rational discussion with me on this? LMAO.

There is little point in discussing this any further with you. You ignore my counterpoints and keep rehashing the drivel you have already spewed.

 

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