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Jamaal Charles in KC (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Jason Wood

Zoo York
So the newest depth chart is out and, yet again, Thomas Jones is listed as the starter over Jamaal Charles. Coaches don't do these kinds of things without a reason -- usually to send a message that they're unhappy about some aspect of the player or the way he comports himself. But I haven't seen or heard of anything that would indicate Todd Haley is unhappy with Charles. So KC homers, what's going on here? What are YOU hearing about this posturing. It's easy for us to say, "Charles will be the guy when the games matter" but I only think that's worth saying if we really understand why he's being listed as a 2nd stringer in the first place. He played great last year once given the chance, and is the incumbent. Very odd stuff IMHO.

:fishing:

 
They did sign for Thomas Jones for a reason. I think you will see something along the lines of 240 carries for one and about 180-225 for the other. Charles with the big plays and Jones gobbling up TOP so they cam keep their defense off the field and fresh.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
They did sign for Thomas Jones for a reason. I think you will see something along the lines of 240 carries for one and about 180-225 for the other. Charles with the big plays and Jones gobbling up TOP so they cam keep their defense off the field and fresh.
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Sure, I think an RBBC isn't out of the question -- in fact, I would say it's the baseline assumption. BUT, that still doesn't explain having Charles as a backup on the team's depth chart. That's about sending a message. I'm trying to figure out, what is the message? Are they unhappy with Charles demeanor? His worth ethic? His blocking? His focus on details in the film room? It's got to be something.
 
Jason Wood said:
Ministry of Pain said:
They did sign for Thomas Jones for a reason. I think you will see something along the lines of 240 carries for one and about 180-225 for the other. Charles with the big plays and Jones gobbling up TOP so they cam keep their defense off the field and fresh.
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Sure, I think an RBBC isn't out of the question -- in fact, I would say it's the baseline assumption. BUT, that still doesn't explain having Charles as a backup on the team's depth chart. That's about sending a message. I'm trying to figure out, what is the message? Are they unhappy with Charles demeanor? His worth ethic? His blocking? His focus on details in the film room? It's got to be something.
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When has Charles entered the season RB1? Thomas Jones got 300+ carries last year, isn't he a workhorse? I think you have a Felix/MBIII situation here till one of them gets nicked up.
 
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.

Absolutely no question.

 
Football Jones said:
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.



Absolutely no question.
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Then why list Jones RB1? How is that not a motivational ploy? You agree that if Charles was the clear cut work horse and wasn't in the dog house in some way, he would be listed RB1, right? So that's what I'm asking...but it seems no one really knows. What exactly is Haley trying to say to Charles?
 
Jason Wood said:
Football Jones said:
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.



Absolutely no question.
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Then why list Jones RB1? How is that not a motivational ploy? You agree that if Charles was the clear cut work horse and wasn't in the dog house in some way, he would be listed RB1, right? So that's what I'm asking...but it seems no one really knows. What exactly is Haley trying to say to Charles?
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It probably is a motivational play. Nothing more than Haley trying to prevent a young player from getting a big head and being satisfied with what he did in about half a season last year IMO. I am not too worried about the depth chart before the first preseason game.
 
Jason Wood said:
Football Jones said:
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.



Absolutely no question.
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Then why list Jones RB1? How is that not a motivational ploy? You agree that if Charles was the clear cut work horse and wasn't in the dog house in some way, he would be listed RB1, right? So that's what I'm asking...but it seems no one really knows. What exactly is Haley trying to say to Charles?
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I don't know why Haley listed TJ as RB1, but it certainly doesn't surprise me at this stage. It might be as simple as Jones having more NFL tenure & being more established. No idea.It wouldn't even surprise me if TJ lined up as the starter in the first series of the regular season. However, the difference in talent between Charles & TJ is staggering at this point in their careers. In fact, I can't remember where I read it, but TJ has looked unimpressive in camp.

Bottom line...I see absolutely no way Charles isn't their feature back this season. Haley may be stubborn, but he's not dumb.

 
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Choke said:
Football Jones said:
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.Absolutely no question.
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Im gonna guess you didnt ay attention to Haley last year?I'm not saying that you arent correct about Jamal -- but Haley dont give a #### about what anyone else thinks.
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Like I said in my previous post, Haley may be stubborn (as evidenced by him waiting so long to feature Charles last season), but he's not dumb. I assure you Haley knows what he has. The depth chart right now doesn't change that.
 
this reminds me of the Bowe situation last year. Haley kept listing him down the depth chart, and everyone said it was just a motivational ploy, souldn't hold up, Bowe was the stud in the offense,etc.. I beleived it and drafted Bowe high. Haley then proceeded to barely use the guy and he was in the doghouse.

Then, it was clear Haley had problems with Bowe and said so, while he hasn't with Charles- so it might be a different situation, but I think its a mistake to ignore the depth chart and think it's meaningless

 
Football Jones said:
Bottom line...I see absolutely no way Charles isn't their feature back this season. Haley may be stubborn, but he's not dumb.
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So how is having 2009's #3 RB in terms of yards gained (1,402), who put it in the end zone 14 times along the way, listed as their RB1 "dumb?" I'm just curious. Charles is lightning in a bottle...but it's not like Thomas Jones is to LenDale White (during his time with the Titans) what Jamaal Charles is to Chris Johnson. :lmao: Charles is also 200 pounds soaking-wet the last time I checked, and his 190 carries doesn't/shouldn't automatically translate into the 331 carries that Jones was able to log in 2009.
 
I think its amusing how many people just assume Charles is the guy here. Thomas Jones had an unreal year last year and as far as I can tell keeps himself in awesome physical condition. Jones is just what a young team like this needs and can definitely emerge as a leader this year.

 
With KC's schedule, Charles is going to be a monster this year even if he doesn't get as many carries as once thought.

 
Football Jones said:
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.Absolutely no question.
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Surprising you would hold this opinion about who the starter is when the facts (depth chart) reads opposite; at least just say "Charles will outproduce Jones even with less carries": But Jones is a guy who ran for more than 1,200 last year? Is a veteran and isn't letting up, was brought in as a high level free agent signing.Why wouldnt a veteran be the starter in this situation (even if Charles has the speed/talent to outproduce him)
 
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datonn said:
Football Jones said:
Bottom line...I see absolutely no way Charles isn't their feature back this season. Haley may be stubborn, but he's not dumb.
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So how is having 2009's #3 RB in terms of yards gained (1,402), who put it in the end zone 14 times along the way, listed as their RB1 "dumb?" I'm just curious. Charles is lightning in a bottle...but it's not like Thomas Jones is to LenDale White (during his time with the Titans) what Jamaal Charles is to Chris Johnson. ;) Charles is also 200 pounds soaking-wet the last time I checked, and his 190 carries doesn't/shouldn't automatically translate into the 331 carries that Jones was able to log in 2009.
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Very :goodposting: The lack of respect for what Jones did last year (and the year before for that matter) is staggering
 
datonn said:
Football Jones said:
Bottom line...I see absolutely no way Charles isn't their feature back this season. Haley may be stubborn, but he's not dumb.
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So how is having 2009's #3 RB in terms of yards gained (1,402), who put it in the end zone 14 times along the way, listed as their RB1 "dumb?" I'm just curious. Charles is lightning in a bottle...but it's not like Thomas Jones is to LenDale White (during his time with the Titans) what Jamaal Charles is to Chris Johnson. :goodposting: Charles is also 200 pounds soaking-wet the last time I checked, and his 190 carries doesn't/shouldn't automatically translate into the 331 carries that Jones was able to log in 2009.
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Chris Johnson weighs less then Jamaal Charles and it didn't stop him from carrying the load last year.
 
theglorydays said:
Chris Johnson weighs less then Jamaal Charles and it didn't stop him from carrying the load last year.
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True. However, that's where I also think that Chris Johnson is going to break down earlier than a RB who carries an extra 20-25 pounds of muscle (210-215). Might not be in 2010. Might not be in 2011! However, Johnson will break down...probably a season or two early compared to other stud RB1s. Maybe Haley thinks the same thing, and wants Charles to be around for an extra season or two? But what do I know...I'm just an armchair QB.
 
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Anyone who watch the Jets at the end of the year and in the playoffs knows the Jones is done. He has no burst and was the benefit of one of the best o-lines in football. Charles will wind up with the lion's share of touches by the end of the year, book it.

 
Bill Williamson of ESPN had this to say about it, including a quote from Haley:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/...starter-at-camp

Jamaal Charles at No. 2 is no big deal

I wouldn’t make too much of Jamaal Charles starting training camp as the No. 2 running back behind veteran Thomas Jones.

It’s no big deal.

Charles will be the primary back in Kansas City if he doesn’t suddenly fall off the face of the earth. This is a blossoming star. The Chiefs will use him.

But considering Jones is on the team now and Charles is coming off an offseason shoulder injury, this isn’t the worst idea ever. It's camp. Let the kid ease into it.

We all know when the season starts, the Chiefs are going to be a run-first operation and Charles and Jones will both get lots of carries. There’s no way Charles is going to be buried. He was a star in the second half of the season, finishing with 1,120 yards, including a 259-yard performance to end the season in Denver.

Second-year Kansas City coach Todd Haley has proved to be a motivator. There is a chance he is letting Charles know that he still has to work hard. That should be the message. Here’s what Haley had to say about it to the Kansas City Star: “That’s coaching. I’m not real interested in any of these guys being real comfortable.”

Whatever works.

But rest assured, Chiefs fans, Haley knows Charles is one of his best players. When the season starts, Charles will be on the field plenty.
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Ray Rice wasn't listed as the starter in 2009 during preseason either. I'm not saying anything but I'm just saying.........

 
fatmnkypants said:
this reminds me of the Bowe situation last year. Haley kept listing him down the depth chart, and everyone said it was just a motivational ploy, souldn't hold up, Bowe was the stud in the offense,etc.. I beleived it and drafted Bowe high. Haley then proceeded to barely use the guy and he was in the doghouse.Then, it was clear Haley had problems with Bowe and said so, while he hasn't with Charles- so it might be a different situation, but I think its a mistake to ignore the depth chart and think it's meaningless
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This is exactly what I was thinking, surprised only one person has mentioned anything about this. Might not be the doghouse but it aint no Hilton either
 
This is one of those things that will play out in due time (like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Jones lined up as the starter in the first series of the regular season....we'll see), but given how both performed last season, I don't see how anybody would think Jones will be their feature back.

Who would you want as your feature back if you were Haley? I'm taking Charles in a landslide. What TJ has done in the past is inconsequential at this point in his career. It means squat in this particular situation.

Charles is simply a much more talented RB right now, IMO.

 
fatmnkypants said:
this reminds me of the Bowe situation last year. Haley kept listing him down the depth chart, and everyone said it was just a motivational ploy, souldn't hold up, Bowe was the stud in the offense,etc.. I beleived it and drafted Bowe high. Haley then proceeded to barely use the guy and he was in the doghouse.Then, it was clear Haley had problems with Bowe and said so, while he hasn't with Charles- so it might be a different situation, but I think its a mistake to ignore the depth chart and think it's meaningless
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Or how about the Derrick Johnson situation at LB? The unquestionably more talented player at the position, but he played basically only on nickel last season. Figure THAT one out....
 
BTW, 1200 yards looks good on paper, but TJ failed to reach the 4.0 YPC mark in over half his games (12 out of 20) & had less than 3 YPC in each of his last 4 games. He also reached 5.0 only twice in those 20 games, which I find telling. And that's with an awesome OL.

Like I've said before, I'm not a stat guy because they can be totally misleading, especially YPC, but I wanted to mention it because it goes hand-in-hand with what my eyeballs saw last season.

RBs can go fast...just sayin'.

 
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Or how the Chiefs have basically misused and abused Glenn Dorsey since they drafted him. I'm sure part of it is his fault, but it wreaks of a situation like the Green Bay Packers playing DE Aaron Kampman at OLB. Why would you line a potentially dominant DT up at DE?! :wall:

 
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Football Jones said:
BTW, 1200 yards looks good on paper, but TJ failed to reach the 4.0 YPC mark in almost half his games (11 out of 20) & had less than 3 YPC in each of his last 4 games. He also reached 5.0 only twice in those 20 games, which I find telling. And that's with an awesome OL.Like I've said before, I'm not a stat guy because they can be totally misleading, especially YPC, but I wanted to mention it because it goes hand-in-hand with what my eyeballs saw last season. RBs can go fast...just sayin'.
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Jones averaged 4.2 YPC over the season. Shonn Greene, with the same O-Line and supporting cast, averaged 5.0 YPC on a little less than one-third the number of carries. Charles averaged 5.9 YPC behind an O-Line than many would argue couldn't hold the NYJ lines' jocks. On a little more than half of Jones' carries.I'm not saying that Charles is not > Jones! I'm just saying that Jones is no slouch himself...and his extra 13 pounds, coupled with only six seasons of high wear-and-tear on his tire tread (200+ carries), makes him a little more durable and a little "younger" than his date of birth might indicate.Edited to add: What I think is interesting too is a quick look at Charles' and Jones' situational stats. Roughly 75% of Jones' carries last season came on turf, but he was about 0.4 YPC better running on grass. Charles, on the other hand, got 85% of his carries in 2009 on grass, with a 6.2 YPC on grass, versus 3.9 YPC on turf. So...might Jones slowing down a bit towards the end of the season have something to do with that colder weather and running surface?! Something to at least think about.
 
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fatmnkypants said:
this reminds me of the Bowe situation last year. Haley kept listing him down the depth chart, and everyone said it was just a motivational ploy, souldn't hold up, Bowe was the stud in the offense,etc.. I beleived it and drafted Bowe high. Haley then proceeded to barely use the guy and he was in the doghouse.Then, it was clear Haley had problems with Bowe and said so, while he hasn't with Charles- so it might be a different situation, but I think its a mistake to ignore the depth chart and think it's meaningless
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This does not remind me at all of the Bowe situation last year. Haley said Bowe was in the dog house and there were problems in the pre-season. Unless you see the same talk, how is this similar at all? Also, how was Bowe barely used? He only played in 11 games and had 3 awful games, but also had 8 good games averaging 5.4 receptions, 70 yards and 0.4 TDs per game. In his first 8 games, he was almost on pace for a 1000 yards and 8 TDs. Not setting the world on fire, but not barely used. When Bowe played, he was targeted. If he wasn't suspended by the NFL, he would have been their #1 WR by far.
 
RBM said:
datonn said:
Football Jones said:
Bottom line...I see absolutely no way Charles isn't their feature back this season. Haley may be stubborn, but he's not dumb.
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So how is having 2009's #3 RB in terms of yards gained (1,402), who put it in the end zone 14 times along the way, listed as their RB1 "dumb?" I'm just curious. Charles is lightning in a bottle...but it's not like Thomas Jones is to LenDale White (during his time with the Titans) what Jamaal Charles is to Chris Johnson. :bye: Charles is also 200 pounds soaking-wet the last time I checked, and his 190 carries doesn't/shouldn't automatically translate into the 331 carries that Jones was able to log in 2009.
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Very :wall: The lack of respect for what Jones did last year (and the year before for that matter) is staggering
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jamaal charles put up cj/adp numbers for 8 games last year. i lol at your misplaced "respect." esp considering offensive lines and team philosophy and opportunities due to the defense.in 8 games charles put up 968 yards at 6 ypc and 7 tds. he also had 158 yards receiving and another td. so 1128 yfs and 8 tds in 8 games on the freakin chiefs who for the last 2.5 season where woeful at the run.

 
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datonn said:
Or how the Chiefs have basically misused and abused Glenn Dorsey since they drafted him. I'm sure part of it is his fault, but it wreaks of a situation like the Green Bay Packers playing DE Aaron Kampman at OLB. Why would you line a potentially dominant DT up at DE?! :confused:
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Everybody wants to be a 3-4 team now, but Dorsey is no 3-4 NT.
 
Jason Wood said:
So the newest depth chart is out and, yet again, Thomas Jones is listed as the starter over Jamaal Charles. Coaches don't do these kinds of things without a reason -- usually to send a message that they're unhappy about some aspect of the player or the way he comports himself. But I haven't seen or heard of anything that would indicate Todd Haley is unhappy with Charles. So KC homers, what's going on here? What are YOU hearing about this posturing. It's easy for us to say, "Charles will be the guy when the games matter" but I only think that's worth saying if we really understand why he's being listed as a 2nd stringer in the first place. He played great last year once given the chance, and is the incumbent. Very odd stuff IMHO. :confused:
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Maybe Thomas Jones is better?
 
I think it's really just a motivational ploy, and Haley's just trying to push Charles. He did the same thing with Bowe last year, however the Derrick Johnson situation was different because there were problems with his play. There's just no way that Charles stays off the field unless he starts fumbling a lot.

 
cvnpoka said:
RBM said:
datonn said:
Football Jones said:
Bottom line...I see absolutely no way Charles isn't their feature back this season. Haley may be stubborn, but he's not dumb.
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So how is having 2009's #3 RB in terms of yards gained (1,402), who put it in the end zone 14 times along the way, listed as their RB1 "dumb?" I'm just curious. Charles is lightning in a bottle...but it's not like Thomas Jones is to LenDale White (during his time with the Titans) what Jamaal Charles is to Chris Johnson. :lmao: Charles is also 200 pounds soaking-wet the last time I checked, and his 190 carries doesn't/shouldn't automatically translate into the 331 carries that Jones was able to log in 2009.
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Very :lmao: The lack of respect for what Jones did last year (and the year before for that matter) is staggering
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jamaal charles put up cj/adp numbers for 8 games last year. i lol at your misplaced "respect." esp considering offensive lines and team philosophy and opportunities due to the defense.in 8 games charles put up 968 yards at 6 ypc and 7 tds. he also had 158 yards receiving and another td. so 1128 yfs and 8 tds in 8 games on the freakin chiefs who for the last 2.5 season where woeful at the run.
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Thanks for the stats. But I never said that Charles wasnt impressive last year. Im just saying people shouldnt dismiss Jones so easily.
 
Jones at this point in his career is a plodder. He'll run for 3,4,5 yards each time, but probably won't break one. In other words,

he's what Edgerrin James was when he went to Arizona. That's not going to last long. Charles is the home run threat who'll

give the Chiefs the best chance to win. Sure, if the Chiefs are playing with a lead in the 4th quarter Jones may come in

to 'close it out'. But, how often is that really going to happen? Most likely, they are going to be playing from behind or

in a close game and they are going to want to use Charles in receiving game and as a dynamic playmaker.

 
This was one of the reasons that I missed on Charles last year. He did the same thing last year and Haley alluded to attitude issues and even with LJ stinkin up the joint Charles couldn't get a sniff until they absolutely had no choice but to put him in (because the whole LJ twitter/cut situation). I relied a little too heavily on the coaches actions and words and not enough watching Charles play. I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in what Haley is doing because he is a game player/motivator but I'm uneasy about the whole situation and am pretty much avoiding it. A lot of uncertainty there and while there's a good bit of reward there's also a lot of risk.

 
Banger said:
This was one of the reasons that I missed on Charles last year. He did the same thing last year and Haley alluded to attitude issues and even with LJ stinkin up the joint Charles couldn't get a sniff until they absolutely had no choice but to put him in (because the whole LJ twitter/cut situation). I relied a little too heavily on the coaches actions and words and not enough watching Charles play. I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in what Haley is doing because he is a game player/motivator but I'm uneasy about the whole situation and am pretty much avoiding it. A lot of uncertainty there and while there's a good bit of reward there's also a lot of risk.
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Yes, but isn't that what winning in fantasy football is? I really think that in the end, talent and youth will win out. How many 32 year old backs that signed with new teams have gone on to tear it up their first year? I don't remember many. Maybe someone can chime in. This situation is exactly like the Shonn Greene one. An accomplished veteran (LT) comes in when the incumbent is a talented back who had a great end to the previous year. I coundn't find a similar situation to compare it to over the last 10 years. I'd be curious to know. The only one I can think of is Eddie George signing with Dallas, but I don't think there was a talented young back there, but even then, we know how that turned out.
 
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RBM said:
I think its amusing how many people just assume Charles is the guy here. Thomas Jones had an unreal year last year and as far as I can tell keeps himself in awesome physical condition. Jones is just what a young team like this needs and can definitely emerge as a leader this year.
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leader, yes..statistically productive fantasy rb? not so much..his stats fell off the earth towards the end of the 2009 season...sometimes the tread on the tires is just worn down too much..
 
hotlanta said:
Banger said:
This was one of the reasons that I missed on Charles last year. He did the same thing last year and Haley alluded to attitude issues and even with LJ stinkin up the joint Charles couldn't get a sniff until they absolutely had no choice but to put him in (because the whole LJ twitter/cut situation). I relied a little too heavily on the coaches actions and words and not enough watching Charles play. I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in what Haley is doing because he is a game player/motivator but I'm uneasy about the whole situation and am pretty much avoiding it. A lot of uncertainty there and while there's a good bit of reward there's also a lot of risk.
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Yes, but isn't that what winning in fantasy football is? I really think that in the end, talent and youth will win out. How many 32 year old backs that signed with new teams have gone on to tear it up their first year? I don't remember many. Maybe someone can chime in. This situation is exactly like the Shonn Greene one. An accomplished veteran (LT) comes in when the incumbent is a talented back who had a great end to the previous year. I coundn't find a similar situation to compare it to over the last 10 years. I'd be curious to know.
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It can be but I try not to gamble in my early round picks and I swing for the fences in the middle rounds. Just my philosophy that's served me well in nearly 2 decades of playing. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Charles was a stud this year but it wouldn't surprise me if they used Jones like the Jets did (run Jones 1st/2nd down and have Charles in the L. Washington role) which would water Charles down a lot. I could really see it going either way.
 
I can envision Jones beginning the season as the de facto starter, but I sense that - sooner rather than later - TJ will start to look like Emmitt and Edge did when they went to Arizona: old and slow.

I agree with the poster above who said that Jones looked worn down at the end of the year. Most Jets fans would agree, and as good of a guy as he his, most were not overly disappointed at his release.

Probably only a matter of time before Charles puts TJ on the bench except for brief spelling/situational carries.

 
zamboni said:
I can envision Jones beginning the season as the de facto starter, but I sense that - sooner rather than later - TJ will start to look like Emmitt and Edge did when they went to Arizona: old and slow. I agree with the poster above who said that Jones looked worn down at the end of the year. Most Jets fans would agree, and as good of a guy as he his, most were not overly disappointed at his release.Probably only a matter of time before Charles puts TJ on the bench except for brief spelling/situational carries.
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Jones would not have had the same wear/tear on him had Washington not gotten hurt. The Jets ran a ton last year (70 attempts more than the #2 rushing offense) and while I'm sure KC would like to run that much, I just don't think their offense or their defense (to consistently get them the ball back and keep the score in running situations) will be that good. Last year they were in the middle of the pack, tied for 15th, with 438 attempts and while that may ratchet up to the 460's it's a far cry from the 607 the Jets had last year.
 
Banger said:
zamboni said:
I can envision Jones beginning the season as the de facto starter, but I sense that - sooner rather than later - TJ will start to look like Emmitt and Edge did when they went to Arizona: old and slow.

I agree with the poster above who said that Jones looked worn down at the end of the year. Most Jets fans would agree, and as good of a guy as he his, most were not overly disappointed at his release.

Probably only a matter of time before Charles puts TJ on the bench except for brief spelling/situational carries.
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Jones would not have had the same wear/tear on him had Washington not gotten hurt. The Jets ran a ton last year (70 attempts more than the #2 rushing offense) and while I'm sure KC would like to run that much, I just don't think their offense or their defense (to consistently get them the ball back and keep the score in running situations) will be that good. Last year they were in the middle of the pack, tied for 15th, with 438 attempts and while that may ratchet up to the 460's it's a far cry from the 607 the Jets had last year.
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Agreed - in fact, many Jets fans were calling for Leon to take on an expanded role (if not the starting gig altogether). He looked sensational before the leg injury.But back to Jones - whether or not the plan was for him to carry that much of a load, wear and tear is wear and tear. And at age 32, he's had as many carries as just about anyone over the last 5 years. We're not talking about Ricky Williams who had a 3-year vacation from football.

 
Everybody calm down. JC will be just fine. There's plenty of room for both backs to have a good year.



 
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Banger said:
hotlanta said:
Banger said:
This was one of the reasons that I missed on Charles last year. He did the same thing last year and Haley alluded to attitude issues and even with LJ stinkin up the joint Charles couldn't get a sniff until they absolutely had no choice but to put him in (because the whole LJ twitter/cut situation). I relied a little too heavily on the coaches actions and words and not enough watching Charles play. I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in what Haley is doing because he is a game player/motivator but I'm uneasy about the whole situation and am pretty much avoiding it. A lot of uncertainty there and while there's a good bit of reward there's also a lot of risk.
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Yes, but isn't that what winning in fantasy football is? I really think that in the end, talent and youth will win out. How many 32 year old backs that signed with new teams have gone on to tear it up their first year? I don't remember many. Maybe someone can chime in. This situation is exactly like the Shonn Greene one. An accomplished veteran (LT) comes in when the incumbent is a talented back who had a great end to the previous year. I coundn't find a similar situation to compare it to over the last 10 years. I'd be curious to know.
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It can be but I try not to gamble in my early round picks and I swing for the fences in the middle rounds. Just my philosophy that's served me well in nearly 2 decades of playing. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Charles was a stud this year but it wouldn't surprise me if they used Jones like the Jets did (run Jones 1st/2nd down and have Charles in the L. Washington role) which would water Charles down a lot. I could really see it going either way.
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I got him early 3rd round in a dynasty startup draft over a month ago. So with all of this depth chart shenanagins, there shouldn't be many leagues where he isn't available in the 3rd round. Compared to other options in the 3rd round, I think Charles represents ridiculously good risk/reward. Just play it safe with your first two picks and grab JC in the 3rd.I would like to add, that this is why I think that landing the early pick in this years draft is a homerun. If you get a top 4 picks you get one of the big 4 RB's, then in the 2nd round you really lose nothing since the entire second round seems like one giant tier of players, then you pick early in the 3rd round where players like Jamaal Charles and Shonn Green are falling. The only downside is that there have typically been some steals early in the 4th that you might miss out on, but I still think picking out of 3rd position is probably the sweetest spot this year.

 
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Jason Wood said:
Ministry of Pain said:
They did sign for Thomas Jones for a reason. I think you will see something along the lines of 240 carries for one and about 180-225 for the other. Charles with the big plays and Jones gobbling up TOP so they cam keep their defense off the field and fresh.
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Sure, I think an RBBC isn't out of the question -- in fact, I would say it's the baseline assumption. BUT, that still doesn't explain having Charles as a backup on the team's depth chart. That's about sending a message. I'm trying to figure out, what is the message? Are they unhappy with Charles demeanor? His worth ethic? His blocking? His focus on details in the film room? It's got to be something.
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Maybe they are just trying to keep Thomas Jones happy, as perhaps they "promised" him a starting gig when trying to sign him.
 
hotlanta said:
Everybody calm down. JC will be just fine. There's plenty of room for both backs to have a good year.
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I don't see people in need of "calming down", I see a very measured and reasonable discussion going on about a player that's getting a lot of love in fantasy circles. The Shark Pool exists explicitly to talk through these kinds of situations. If we wanted to simply go with the group think "Charles is the man" without at least hashing out the data points we're provided, we could just turn on ESPNews and watch their fantasy snippets.I started the thread because this kind of "motivational" ploy fascinated me. I have Charles ranked well ahead of Thomas Jones; no one is panicking. But you should ALWAYS be testing your own assumptions and making sure that you're not missing something.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Jason Wood said:
Ministry of Pain said:
They did sign for Thomas Jones for a reason. I think you will see something along the lines of 240 carries for one and about 180-225 for the other. Charles with the big plays and Jones gobbling up TOP so they cam keep their defense off the field and fresh.
Click to expand...
Sure, I think an RBBC isn't out of the question -- in fact, I would say it's the baseline assumption. BUT, that still doesn't explain having Charles as a backup on the team's depth chart. That's about sending a message. I'm trying to figure out, what is the message? Are they unhappy with Charles demeanor? His worth ethic? His blocking? His focus on details in the film room? It's got to be something.
Click to expand...
Maybe they are just trying to keep Thomas Jones happy, as perhaps they "promised" him a starting gig when trying to sign him.
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Exactly what I was thinking. This has more to do with Jones than Charles. The Chiefs probably agreed to give him a fair shake at playing time. I'd also bet that one reason Jones was brought in was for leadership, so the Chiefs want to keep him in a position of respect, at least through the preseason until Charles surpasses him. In any case I think this is more about roles than which RB is the starter. I don't think Charles is going to get 20-25 carries most games but he should still be their go-to guy and solid in PPR leagues.
 
Jason Wood said:
Football Jones said:
It's preseason. While I don't pretend to have insider info, it's a virtual lock Charles will be their feature back, IMO.



Absolutely no question.
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Then why list Jones RB1? How is that not a motivational ploy? You agree that if Charles was the clear cut work horse and wasn't in the dog house in some way, he would be listed RB1, right? So that's what I'm asking...but it seems no one really knows. What exactly is Haley trying to say to Charles?
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I had a feeling this might happen. Jones lives for beating out the younger guy in camp. He has a major chip on his shoulder and does not like rolling over and letting the young guy start. In Chicago he made Benson look silly in camp for two straight camps until they finally had to trade him just to give Benson a chance (great thinking Bears!)Jones feels he is still in his prime and coming off a career year. Word has been he has looked phenomenal in camp, and I don't doubt that he looks like the better back. We want Charles to win because he's new and therefore represents more upside, but Haley simply wants the back that performs best in camp. By all accounts I've heard that's been Jones, so it's not surprising that Jones is atop the depth chart.

 
I've been of the belief that Jones was signed to be the starter and the main rusher on 1/2nd downs. It would not have made sense for KC to bring in Jones as a backup. Jones left the Jets specifically because he didn't want to fall behind Green on the depth chart. I firmly believe that Jones was promised the main ball carrier role by KC during contract signing. Providing KC is in most of its games, Jones is looking at 230-250 carries and goal lines.

As for Charles, he will still have a big part of the offense. I can see 150-180 carries and 35-50 receptions. But unless one believes the level of touches will allow him to produce 220+ FF points in a PPR league, he should not be drafted in the 2nd or even 3rd round. 4th round or later is probably a good place for Charles as a situational player with upside, similar to Stewart and Felix Jones.

 
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