wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Kevin Walter or Jacoby Jones? any houston homers got any idea who has got the upper edger here? 
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Who is the wr2 in Houston? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wiscstlatlmia
- Start date
Major
Footballguy
2a and 2b....Jacoby will be the better long term play. He makes things happen. Walter is inconsistent but I think this year he'll give you consistently 40-50 yds w/ the occasional score. :htownhomer:Kevin Walter or Jacoby Jones? answers and reasons please
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
dude your so smart and sassy!
Major
Footballguy
That was very insightful. Thanks for the contribution, guy
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Owen Daniels if he's healthy.
I think it's Jones and here's why. He's more explosive, and has better size. Walter is a better possession receiver and seems to be more in sync with Shaub at times, but with teams doubling Andre, Jacoby will have more opportunities for the longer pass play. But, as previous guys have said, it's still unclear and this is only my opinion.
Sure Jacoby Jones has better skills than Walter, but he did last year too. I think you are going to waiting for a long time for Jones to emerge. Shaub and Walter seem to have much better chemistry. Jones seems to strictly be a home run hitter. If people think that Walter is inconsistent, then what would they call Jones? I don't know how much opportunity there is for 3wr sets with Daniels seemingly fully recovered and Kubiak liking a 2 back set.
aesclepius
Footballguy
I noticed in another thread (about Collie) that Walter doesn't drop the ball; catches everything thrown to him. If you're Schaub, who do you go to in the red zone, when A. Johnson has double coverage?
The guy that's open, and has a better chance at a jump ball if he's not. Sometimes Walter will be open on quick stuff, others Shaub may need to improvise and find the best option. That option could be Jones, that's all I'm saying.
kupcho1
Footballguy
2a and 2b....Jacoby will be the better long term play. He makes things happen. Walter is inconsistent but I think this year he'll give you consistently 40-50 yds w/ the occasional score. :htownhomer:Kevin Walter or Jacoby Jones? answers and reasons please
Chaka
Footballguy
Walter is in his 8th year with 16 career TDs all in the last 48 games with Houston.
Jones is in his 4th year with 7 TDs all in the last 16 games with Houston.
Even assuming Walter took four years to develop into a decent NFL WR Jones appears to be progressing a little faster and on the surface seems to promise more upside.
Jones is in his 4th year with 7 TDs all in the last 16 games with Houston.
Even assuming Walter took four years to develop into a decent NFL WR Jones appears to be progressing a little faster and on the surface seems to promise more upside.
DoubleG
Footballguy
After two games??So Mercedes Lewis >> Vernon Davis and Jermichael Finley. Got it. Thanks for the in depth analysis there, Sparky.I think Walter is currently the #2 with about a 60/40 edge on Jacoby. But over the course of the season, Jones will take over. Simply put Jones is more talented. This is a "WRBC" - that will shift in terms of touches.
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The Jerk
Footballguy
If the statistics are incorrect or incomplete, then they REALLY lie.Jacoby Jones: 8 rec., 82 yards, 1 TDKevin Walter: 4 rec., 55 yards, 2 TD
Lash
Footballguy
LOL it's what i get for not looking it up ... touche'(just knew i had KWalter on my bench for two weeks outscoring Crabtree so he must be the #2 in HOU)
coolnerd
Footballguy
Walter is 6'3 218 and Jones 6'2 210. If anything Jones plays smaller than his size and Walter bigger. Everything else is okay here.
Lash
Footballguy
umm...NFL.com has Walter at 13/173/2
Road Warriors
Footballguy
I see lots of people talking up Jones as the obvious choice here. I don't see it. Walter has 65/800, 60/900, and 53/610 ( out with injury 2 games ) over the past 3 seasons. Jones has gone 15/150, 3/80 and 27/450 the past 3 seasons. Jones is more explosive in the open field, but in my limited chances to watch, Walter is the more polished receiver and obviously has Schaub's trust.
I think we'll see Walter getting more looks than Jones, and borderline fantasy startable until Owen Daniels is back up to full speed. After that, neither guy will have many opportunities.
I think we'll see Walter getting more looks than Jones, and borderline fantasy startable until Owen Daniels is back up to full speed. After that, neither guy will have many opportunities.
The Jerk
Footballguy
OK. Sorry.Jones: 8-82-1Walter 13-173-2
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The Jerk
Footballguy
Kubiak has said Jones is the WR3 but also is considered a "starter" as Houston runs a lot of 3 WR formations. I don't think there's a clear-cut answer to this question, but in general, the Shark Pool typically is ahead of the curve when there is a transition from one player to another -- think DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart, Addai and Brown, T.Jones and Greene. I know, these are all RBs, but the idea is pretty similar in this case. Sometimes it's good to be "behind" the curve in thinking when the curve is being set by highly forward thinkers.
Meecrob
Footballguy
Short Answer;Its Walter...
Long Answer; As much as people here want Jacoby to develop into an Andre Mini-me... it just hasn't happened. Jacoby has been plagued by inconsistency and mental lapses his whole career, and just when we think hes going to put it all together, another pass deflects off his hands and gets intercepted, or another punt return gets muffed. Meanwhile Walter is catching nearly everything thrown his way and putting up solid WR 2 numbers. Given the Houston passing O, Jones as a WR 3 is going to put up some impressive numbers relatively speaking, But Walter still has the trust of Schaub over Jacoby and I think that will correlate into much more trustworthy fantasy stats.
Long Answer; As much as people here want Jacoby to develop into an Andre Mini-me... it just hasn't happened. Jacoby has been plagued by inconsistency and mental lapses his whole career, and just when we think hes going to put it all together, another pass deflects off his hands and gets intercepted, or another punt return gets muffed. Meanwhile Walter is catching nearly everything thrown his way and putting up solid WR 2 numbers. Given the Houston passing O, Jones as a WR 3 is going to put up some impressive numbers relatively speaking, But Walter still has the trust of Schaub over Jacoby and I think that will correlate into much more trustworthy fantasy stats.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Everyone is correct that Walter is more polished, he is an 8 year vet and Jones is starting his 4th year and was primarily a KR for his first three seasons. I think the jury is out on who has the most upside, but for sure Schaub trusted Walter more for the last three years.
Two games is too small a sample size to draw hard conclusions but it's only a 16 game season and it's the only starting point for 2010. In two games Jones has 6 & 9 targets (8 catches) and Walter has 13 (13 catches) so it looks like Jones is at least getting as many opportunities as Walter. I think they both will have some nice games and both disappear for multi-game stretches. By the end of the season their stats should be comparable but either could end up on top.
Seems to me that if Walter is worth a roster spot so is Jones.
Another plus for Jones is that he still gets reps in the return game. All you can ask for is opportunities.
Two games is too small a sample size to draw hard conclusions but it's only a 16 game season and it's the only starting point for 2010. In two games Jones has 6 & 9 targets (8 catches) and Walter has 13 (13 catches) so it looks like Jones is at least getting as many opportunities as Walter. I think they both will have some nice games and both disappear for multi-game stretches. By the end of the season their stats should be comparable but either could end up on top.
Seems to me that if Walter is worth a roster spot so is Jones.
Another plus for Jones is that he still gets reps in the return game. All you can ask for is opportunities.
GregR_2
Footballguy
From an NFL standpoint it is unarguably Walter. From a fantasy standpoint they are about the same. Walter is a better blocker and has better hands than Jacoby, so Walter tends to be in on more plays than Jacoby. But Jacoby tends to have more long gains as he's a better athlete overall and better after the catch.
On what I was saying about Walter having better hands... Jacoby has 2 drops this year in 15 targets, with a 53% catch rate, Walter 0 drops in 13 targets with a 100% catch rate. That's a small number of samples, so looking at 2009 for a better sample size, Walter had 1 drop in 68 targets with a 78% catch rate. Jacoby had 5 drops in 35 targets but had a similar catch rate at 77%.
So when there are two WRs in and it isn't a clear cut passing down, it's more likely to be Walter than Jones.
From a fantasy standpoint they get about equal time on passing plays.
Texans have had 145 offensive plays, 66 runs and 79 passes.
Walter played 101 plays, 65 passes and 35 runs, and once he stayed in and pass blocked.
Jones played 84 plays, 59 passes, 25 runs.
So they were in for very close to the same number of passing plays. Walter sees about 25% more snaps than Jones, but only 10% more passing plays than him.
If anyone wants to compare, Andre Johnson played 134 plays, 70 passes and 64 runs.
Myself, I passed on taking Jacoby and drafted Walter in the belief they will probably score about the same, but Walter was available quite a bit later in my draft. I also think Walter will score a little more consistently while Jones will probably have bigger peaks and valleys.
On what I was saying about Walter having better hands... Jacoby has 2 drops this year in 15 targets, with a 53% catch rate, Walter 0 drops in 13 targets with a 100% catch rate. That's a small number of samples, so looking at 2009 for a better sample size, Walter had 1 drop in 68 targets with a 78% catch rate. Jacoby had 5 drops in 35 targets but had a similar catch rate at 77%.
So when there are two WRs in and it isn't a clear cut passing down, it's more likely to be Walter than Jones.
From a fantasy standpoint they get about equal time on passing plays.
Texans have had 145 offensive plays, 66 runs and 79 passes.
Walter played 101 plays, 65 passes and 35 runs, and once he stayed in and pass blocked.
Jones played 84 plays, 59 passes, 25 runs.
So they were in for very close to the same number of passing plays. Walter sees about 25% more snaps than Jones, but only 10% more passing plays than him.
If anyone wants to compare, Andre Johnson played 134 plays, 70 passes and 64 runs.
Myself, I passed on taking Jacoby and drafted Walter in the belief they will probably score about the same, but Walter was available quite a bit later in my draft. I also think Walter will score a little more consistently while Jones will probably have bigger peaks and valleys.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Excellent analysis.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Fom an NFL standpoint it's pretty clear that Walter is the #2 WR. The Texans signed him to a new $21.5M contract in the offseason with $11M guaranteed and he beat out Jacoby Jones for the #2 WR spot in training camp.
From a fantasy standpoint, it might be more like 2a and 2b, and they both will probably be targeted fairly equally. I personally prefer Walter because even though he is not as explosive as Jones, he is very tough and dependable and seems like a better fit for the Texans offense.
From a fantasy standpoint, it might be more like 2a and 2b, and they both will probably be targeted fairly equally. I personally prefer Walter because even though he is not as explosive as Jones, he is very tough and dependable and seems like a better fit for the Texans offense.
This is a quote from 2007, but it's the reason for my persistent man-crush on Walter:
"He's a man," Kubiak said of Walter. "It doesn't matter where we play. He's going to show up and make every tough play. I said that last year. I was disappointed with myself that I didn't get him more involved with the offense. As you can see now, he's very much involved and he can be counted on."
"He's a man," Kubiak said of Walter. "It doesn't matter where we play. He's going to show up and make every tough play. I said that last year. I was disappointed with myself that I didn't get him more involved with the offense. As you can see now, he's very much involved and he can be counted on."
coolnerd
Footballguy
Kubiak is still at with Walter(on WR Kevin Walter) "It’s not like game plans are built around Kevin, but when he shows up on Sunday he tends to make as many plays as anybody. It tells you what he’s all about, his character. He could play a bunch of spots. He’s going to play every play. It’s what you need in this league."
DANNY WELKER CRABTACULOUS
Footballguy
Walter is the steady producer and Jacoby is the lottery ticket. At some point this season he will go off for 20+ pts, but more often then not, he will be a 2-5pt per game (standard scoring) guy. For right now, I would start Walter in almost any league format because he is going to catch all the check downs over the middle, and the "move the sticks" plays that AJ is double covered on. After the bye week whenwe expect OD to be back to form i would drop Walter (see first 7 games last year statistics). Jacoby remains a lottery ti cket all year, but nothing I would count on.
