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Sportsline has this:TD Daryl Washington, 40 Yd interception return (Jay Feely kick is good), 2:42.
but is it a pick 6?As an Orton owner, I'm hoping CBS changes it to a fumble recovery. If so, it's obviously not a pick 6, but my opponent this week believes it should be a pick 6 either way.
as a commish, i wouldn't do anything that rash. I'd check the rules of the league and pray that it doesn't make a difference in the outcome of the game.
I think my league is saying it's a pick six... yuck.
ok... why wouldn't you credit it as a pick 6?
specifically, in our league, the QB gets a -1 for the interception and then a -2 for the pick 6. My opponent is saying that it's a clear pick 6. I obviously disagree. help?
For the same reason you wouldn't credit it as a pick 6 if the guy intercepting it got tackled. It's not a pick 6.
No, not technically. It's closer to a Fumble-6.
One leaguemate (who is a member of this forum) states:" Orton threw an interception, which was returned for a TD. Possession of the ball didn't return to Denver and they just happened to fumble it around between themselves on the way to a TD. Thus, it's a pick 6."As an Orton owner, I disagree... but that's their logic. Expert (or just any) opinions greatly appreciated.
We also have a "pick 6" rule for fumbles... if a player fumbles a ball and it is returned for a TD, it's an additional -2. Combined with our Pick 6 rule for INT's, they're saying Orton's INT was a "pick 6"... Hopefully, it's a moot point...
The latter part will depend on the specific wording of your league's rulebook. Some leagues will ONLY count fumbles recovered from an opponent.
We use CBS Sportsline. If they keep that as the score, so be it -- it's a pick 6. But if it's changed to 0 yard fumble recovery, it doesn't feel like a pick 6 to me.
The Manual:Fumble Lost/Interception Thrown – minus 1 pointFumble Lost/Interception Thrown that is returned for a TD – minus 2 pointsEh.
But does your league have a "Pick-Followed-By-Fumble-6" rule?
Anyway, I would say that since your league deducts 2 points for INTs or FUMBLES returned for touchdowns.........and since this play was a combination of the two.........then in the spirit of the rules you should deduct 2 points from Orton.Probably. But not until I have some fun with the other GM.But does your league have a "Pick-Followed-By-Fumble-6" rule?
The same Arizona D would get +2 points for recovering the fumble in the end zone.
No, because Arizona was the offensive team at that point. We don't give offensive units points for fumble recoveries, just D/ST units.
Oh.
So if the Arizona player had scored on the INT, I can only presume that you wouldn't have given the D/ST credit for the touchdown. After all, Arizona was the offensive team at that point. You wouldn't want to give the Arizona D/ST points for something that was clearly scored by the offense.No, because Washington was a defender when he made the interception. Dockett was not a defender when he recovered the fumble.Oh.
So when an offensive player fumbles it, and another player on the same team recovers it in the end zone, you record that as a defensive TD?
This is one of the common more ridiculous comments I have heard. If the intercepting team becomes the offense then when they score they shouldn't get defensive points when they score a TD, which is clearly wrong. Does the offense become the defense? Do you now have two defenses out on the field at the same time if offense becomes Defense?The way it should be is that Defense is Defense for the duration of the play and same with the Offense. I believe we covered this last year in the Robert Meacham int-fumble TD play.No, because Washington was a defender when he made the interception. Dockett was not a defender when he recovered the fumble.Oh.
No because possession never changed. Here is Section 35 of the NFL Rulebook that outlines when a team is considered to be on offense and defense.
The note under Article 2 clearly states that when possession changes during the down so do the offensive and defensive teams. Each change of possession changes which team is considered to be on offense and which team is considered to be on defense. An interception of a forward pass clearly changes possession. A fumble by Team A where Team B never gains possession is not a change in possession, therefore the recovery cannot be a defensive touchdown and must be an offensive touchdown.
That may be the way it should be, but isn't the way it is. Washington was a defender when he made the pick. While the Cardinals then became the offensive team, had Washington scored the Cardinals D would have been awarded points because he was a defender when he gained possession. The conundrum is that Dockett wasn't a defender when he recovered the fumble. Should Dockell get credit for a fumble recovery? If he was a member of the defense at that point, then shouldn't he get credit for a fumble recovery? Say I start Cutler who does what Cutler normally does and throws a pick. During the run back Cutler forces a fumble from the defensive player and recovers the fumble. Should the Bears D get points for the fumble recovery?
Stop thinking in terms like this; it's a fumble recovery touchdown. For all intensive purposes imagine that Kyle Orton fumbled the ball into his own end-zone and Dockett recovered it for a TD. Same concept.Doesn't matter how the ball got there: Dockett recovered it for a TD.
By this logic Defensive scores are impossible since the team with the ball is always on Offense. This may be how the NFL rulebook states it for rules infractions against Offense/Defense but not for FF. You only get credit for a fumble recovery if there is a change in possession. I don't think Chicago ST/D should get credit for a recovery in the above, but they will.
It's definitely close and personally, I don't think he made it in.http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121211/2...9000d5d81cdb464Islander said:
I'd love to see this rule. This sounds like that 'fantasy instant replay' stuff.rocketsauce said:
ur screwed. It was a interception that was returned for a touchdown, albeit in a nonconventional way.todd2006 said:
if the defender had pitched it ro somebody who subsequently scored, is that a pick 6?todd2006 said:
I would say yes - since the team never lost control of the ball.I have not seen the play - but it appears from the description that Washington lost possession of the ball. Thus a Defensive fumble recovery, but not a pick-6.
If the Arizona player fumbled to himself 5 times on the way to the end zone, would you deduct 10 points from their score?OddibeMcD said:
Ended up not making a difference as I lost by 10 or so. Thanks Adrian! And Orton. And Lloyd. And Gresham. And Britt. And Tynes. And Lynch. (just a massive fail for the entire squad except wayne and schaub)
The way you can handle it is to give -10 pts for the 5 fumbles, but you also have +10 pts for the 5 fumble recoveries on the same play, which ends up in a wash. So basically I am in your camp that -2 pts makes no sense. In this case it's one fumble, and one fumble recovery. Or you count nothing at all. Either way it's zero impact.
People are over-complicating things. Defense is on the field...it's a defensive TD. HOWEVER...the interception was NOT returned for a TD. IN this specific case, assuming there isn't more in your rules to clarify, QB gets -1, the DST gets the TD score. IN IDP leagues, the guy recovering the fumble for the TD gets the TD points, but no fumble recovery points (since his recovery was NOT a change of possession), while the intercepting player gets the INT points.All this crap about when a team changes from Offense to Defense is just that...crap. Using that logic, no team EVER scores a defensive TD....which obviously mnakes no sense.
