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Chad Ochocinco, WR, New England Patriots (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2011 Player Spotlight Series

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Thread Topic: Chad Ochocinco, WR, New England Patriots

Player Page Link: Chad Ochocinco Player Page

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I can see 80 rec. for 1100 yards and 8 to 10 TDs. I give a lot of the credit to the increase in Chad's stats from last year to the offense and having Brady throwing to him. Chad looks like he has enough in the tank for one or two good years in NE.

 
I've been bullish on Ochocinco all off season and I could not have asked for a better landing spot. New England's #1 WR. While some might not think this is possible, I think he puts his ego aside and just goes out and plays football. I think drafting Ochocinco at, or a round before his ADP is going to help a lot of owners win their league this year.

83 Receptions 1150 yards and 9 TD's. A top 15 finish this year, with top 10 upside.

 
As a fan of Ochocinco, it’s hard not to be optimistic about his new gig in New England. Perhaps all he needs regain his old status was get away from Carson Palmer. Perhaps he still has the talent to continue being the center of attention and circus ham on and off the field. But I’m not putting my money down for that bet. Ochocinco at times looked lost on the field last year, and its tough to say if his dip in production is his work habits or a byproduct of a really bad team. Will he come into Patriots camp humble with something to prove, or will he be the self-absorbed narcissist he’s always been?

I love his antics, but I think he’s overrated as a player, and will get his looks from Brady only when he earns them. Brady’s not shy about ignoring a star WR, as he did with Randy Moss. Besides that, you have Wes Welker, and the two emerging star TE’s, and there are only so many passes to go around. That alone may be enough to set Ocho fragile ego off kilter. It’s always hard for the diva wideouts to accept that they just aren’t that good anymore. At 33 and on the cusp of a precipitous drop in production, if he sucks it up the Patriot way, and behaves he’s looking at:

62/800/5

 
I'm not sure where I stand yet with Chad, but I think there is potential there for a good season. Chad is currently WR27 for his career, and needs 2599 yards to break the top 10, surpassing Torry Holt. Therefore, I think sampling the top 20 is appropriate to see what they did at 33:

Top 10

Jerry Rice - 122/1848/15 (best year ever by any WR, Pro Bowl)

Terrell Owens - 85/1180/13

Ike Bruce - 36/525/3

Tim Brown - 90/1344/6 (Pro Bowl)

Randy Moss - 28/393/5 (last year)

Marvin Harrison - 82/1146/12 (Pro Bowl)

James Lofton - 8/166/3

Cris Carter - 78/1011/12 (Pro Bowl)

Henry Ellard - 74/1397/6

Torry Holt - 64/796/3

AVERAGE - 67/981/8

11-20

Andre Reed - 60/880/5

Steve Largent - 58/912/8

Irving Fryar - 62/910/8

Art Monk - 68/770/5

Jimmy Smith - 80/1027/7

Charlie Joiner - 71/1132/4 (Pro Bowl)

Michael Irvin - 10/167/3

Derrick Mason - 103/1087/5

Don Maynard - 57/1297/10 (Pro Bowl)

Hines Ward - 95/1167/6

AVERAGE - 66/935/6

TOP 20 AVERAGE - 67/958/7

Now, I realize that this is somewhat random. The numbers above are affected by QB play, injury, team, etc. However, all of those things come into consideration with Chad:

QB PLAY

Point - Brady is the best QB he has ever had throwing to him

Counterpoint - Brady likes to spread the ball around

INJURY

Point - Chad has remained very healthy for his career

Counterpoint - He missed a few games last year, and this could be a sign of things to come

TEAM

Point - The Patriots are a lot better than the Bengals

Counterpoint - The fact that they are better could mean less playing from behind, as well as more production from other players, not to mention an adjustment period to a new offense, personnel, and coaching staff

In some instances, the players in the top 20 listed above found a renaissance, and actually had several strong years on and after their 33rd birthday. Others fought injury and simply retired. I don't see the latter happening, but of course it's possible. I'm going to stick with this unconventional way of creating a projection, and roll with the overall average of 67/958/7 (about WR20), with a ton of upside. Coincidentally, prior to starting the exercise, I took a guess and said 70/1000/7. Based on ADP in standard scoring, this groups him with the likes of Welker, Lloyd, Holmes, Steve Johnson and Boldin...somewhere around the fifth round. I like his upside more than everyone in that group - perhaps a wash with Santonio. However, my gut tells me Chad will be long gone by then, likely in the hands of a Pats fan.

For value purposes, I would say...

3rd round - major reach

4th round - acceptable

5th round - great value

6th round - steal

 
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Love this move, and think Chad has a great year or two in him with Brady as QB. Unfortunately, by the time I draft, I expect a few people in my leagues to see a name receiver and Brady, and start seeing visions of Randy Moss 2007.

72 receptions, 1100 yards, and 9 TDs. But by the middle of pre-season, he'll be getting drafted in the early-mid 3rd round, and won't have a lot of upside.

 
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Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs.

Rought cut numbers:

Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs

Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDs

Branch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDs

Gronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDs

Hernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDs

Woodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs

 
Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs. Rought cut numbers:Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDsBranch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDsGronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDsHernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDsWoodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs
Basically, this makes sense. The guy who will take the biggest hit is Branch. Those numbers are very similar to what Ocho had in 2009 and while he has aged some, he is now playing with a much better QB and offense.
 
Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs. Rought cut numbers:Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDsBranch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDsGronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDsHernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDsWoodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs
Bostonfred, you love you some Brady since he's going to throw for at least 4,300 yards and 36 TD's in your scenario. I'm not a Pats fan and see 85 having the following numbers....70/950/6
 
With the loss of Moss and the hodge podge of WRs to see the field last year, wide receiver receptions dropped from 273 to 177. There were 227 in '08. People think Hernandez and Gronk are too good to not feed receptions to (TE rec the last 3 years: 31,43,93), but I suspect the pie will be big enough to net Chad plenty of looks. Last year the 177 receptions were divvied up primarily to Welker (86), Branch (48 - 11g), and Tate (24). I don't see why the three main threats couldn't end up with say 100, 80, 40 to total up to something like the '08 season when Welker had 111, Moss 69, Gaffney 38. And that was with Cassel.

I think there is plenty of opportunity for Chad to revive his career. People all like to think they can visibly tell that Chad has lost a step or claim that "he isn't the same player" but I'm pretty sure it is all BS, just like a guy running through gaping holes is a "special talent" and then he gets hurt and the next guy blows up. You see what you want to see. Chad has been in a bad situation for the last few years, but that doesn't mean he is now bad (or average). Chad trains hard and he'll likely be bringing his A game. Branch was on pace for over 70/1000/7 in his 11 games. I think a motivated Chad easily outdoes that production, with a solid chance at a career year.

80 rec x 15 ypc = 1200 yds 8 TD

 
Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs. Rought cut numbers:Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDsBranch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDsGronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDsHernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDsWoodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs
Ultimately, these totals will likely prove to be too high. Counting just this group, that's 4300 yards and 36 TD. Missing from the equation are all the other RBs not named Woodhead and any other receivers (Tate, Edelman, Price as the primary options). There will likely be a few catches by other TEs. Players in the OTHER category accounted for 76-980-8 last year.Factoring that in, using the numbers projected here, things would likely project out to almost 5000+ passing yards and 45 TDs. Brady's good, but I am not sure he is THAT good.
 
Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs. Rought cut numbers:Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDsBranch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDsGronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDsHernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDsWoodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs
Ultimately, these totals will likely prove to be too high. Counting just this group, that's 4300 yards and 36 TD. Missing from the equation are all the other RBs not named Woodhead and any other receivers (Tate, Edelman, Price as the primary options). There will likely be a few catches by other TEs. Players in the OTHER category accounted for 76-980-8 last year.Factoring that in, using the numbers projected here, things would likely project out to almost 5000+ passing yards and 45 TDs. Brady's good, but I am not sure he is THAT good.
Yes. I'm expecting close to 5000 yards and 40+ TDs. I've posted in other threads - I think this is a potential record breaking offense this year. If they bring Light back, which looks likely, then the offensive line will be the same, plus a first rounder. The running backs are improved, and mostly add pass catching. Welker is a year healthier. Branch (and to a lesser extent Woodhead) doesn't join the team midseason. They added Ocho. Gronk and Hernandez have a year of experience under their belts. They face a soft schedule. They have a veteran team with a ton of experience together and no turnover at their starting positions on offense in a year when many of their opponents will be working with some combination of new systems, new coaching, and new players on defense. And while their biggest division rival may have "Revis Island", Brady averaged close to 300 yards and 3 TDs against them last year. And it's worth pointing out that yes, Brady is that good. He's got a 4800 yard, 50 TD season under his belt, which is fourth all time in yardage and first all time in touchdowns. So close to 5000 yards and 45 TDs is not impossible. He had a 4400 yard, 28 TD season two years ago while coming back from injury, then his best WR got booted off the team, Welker got injured, the ancient running backs got decimated again, and his TE corps completely overturned with rookies and an ancient guy who is pretty much an extra blocker, and he not only had a record setting, MVP season, he had 36 TDs. And now everything around him is improved. I'm sure that this comes off as homer talk, because I am one of the bigger Brady honks around, but look over the things I just mentioned and tell me how this offense doesn't have a monster year. By any reasonable expectation this should be another fun ride for Patriots fans.
 
I think way too much went well for the Pats last year that won't happen again. The offense had practically no turnovers. The defense forced BOAT LOADS of turnovers. Offensively, there were very few substantial injuries. All three of those are unlikely to be the case this year (although I hope I am wrong on all counts).

If the defense does not turn the ball over, the offense is on the field less. If the offense turns the ball over, the offense is on the field less. Since I think both of those happen, I suspect the Pats will run fewer plays and score fewer points.

The Pats may be a better team this year, but I also think they may have a worse record. I would guess 12-4. But they should also do better in the post season.

The Pats at this point have a lot of weapons. In my book, the guys that stay healthy will see better numbers. If they all stay healthy, I think they all dilute the value of the others.

 
I think way too much went well for the Pats last year that won't happen again. The offense had practically no turnovers. The defense forced BOAT LOADS of turnovers. Offensively, there were very few substantial injuries. All three of those are unlikely to be the case this year (although I hope I am wrong on all counts).If the defense does not turn the ball over, the offense is on the field less. If the offense turns the ball over, the offense is on the field less. Since I think both of those happen, I suspect the Pats will run fewer plays and score fewer points.The Pats may be a better team this year, but I also think they may have a worse record. I would guess 12-4. But they should also do better in the post season.The Pats at this point have a lot of weapons. In my book, the guys that stay healthy will see better numbers. If they all stay healthy, I think they all dilute the value of the others.
I usually agree with the regression to the mean argument. All things being equal, a team that did unexpectedly well last year should expect to take a step backwards, either because they won't get as lucky with injuries, or with turnovers, or with big plays, or whatever. But in this case, I disagree. First, I agree that Brady's record-breaking, MVP, 4 INT season is highly unlikely to be repeated. But his yardage numbers were low last year - 3900 vs 4400 the year before and 4800 in his last healthy year before that. And a lot of that has to do with the turnovers you're talking about - if a team gets a lot of defensive turnovers, they'll have better starting field position, and they won't be forced to throw as often late in games, and so on. Second, I disagree that the Patriots had few substantial injuries. Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk may all have been injury risks going into the year, but nobody expected Woodhead and BJGE to carry the load for this team. Mankins held out half the year, Kaczur missed the whole season, and they got dinged up along the line all season. Welker returned early from knee surgery, Moss got booted a couple weeks into the season, Branch came in midway through the season, and Hernandez missed time in the second half. This was hardly an injury-free team. This year, Morris and Faulk are theoretically back, BJGE and Woodhead return, and are joined by a pair of early rookie picks. Mankins is back and should play from day one, Kaczur is gone but was out all last year, and they brought in a first rounder who is now a luxury as offensive line depth. Welker is a year healthier, Branch plays a full season, and they replaced Moss' quarter season contribution with Ocho. Gronk and Hernandez should both be healthy. Third, you've completely left out the offseason turmoil that other teams will have faced. The Patriots have not had any starters turn over on offense this offseason. None. They lost Kaczur, but he didn't play. I guess Fred Taylor was technically a starter at one point. Belichick has the luxury of being able to work in guys where he sees fit. If a rookie is slow to pick up the playbook, oh well. They don't play. How many other teams have that luxury? Sure, there will be injuries, but that's true of all teams. The Patriots will, on average, be more experienced on offense than their opponents on defense each week. That's a huge advantage. Finally, while predicting a regression is great, Brady averages close to 4400 yards and 40 TDs over his last three years. 3900/36 might seem high, but both were actually relatively low compared to his recent performance. I do agree with you that there are a lot of mouths to feed on that offense. But that's precisely why I expect big numbers from Brady. And it seems fairly likely that Welker will continue to be Welker, and that Ocho will outperform Branch. There's a rising tide lifting a lot of boats here, and I think Ocho in particular will see better numbers than you expect.
 
As a Bengals fan I believe Chad is every bit the WR he was an watching him make plays with pathetic Carson throwing awful passes was hard to do. He is a virtual lock for 1000 and 6 . PLus he was the upside to build on those numbers. Hes quickly becoming one of the safest picks of the year and that has to be worth something. I am stuck between choosing another older WR in anquan boldin and am having trouble on who to roll the dice with

my projection:

80 1250 yards 11 tds

 
Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs. Rought cut numbers:Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDsBranch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDsGronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDsHernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDsWoodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs
Ultimately, these totals will likely prove to be too high. Counting just this group, that's 4300 yards and 36 TD. Missing from the equation are all the other RBs not named Woodhead and any other receivers (Tate, Edelman, Price as the primary options). There will likely be a few catches by other TEs. Players in the OTHER category accounted for 76-980-8 last year.Factoring that in, using the numbers projected here, things would likely project out to almost 5000+ passing yards and 45 TDs. Brady's good, but I am not sure he is THAT good.
Yes. I'm expecting close to 5000 yards and 40+ TDs. I've posted in other threads - I think this is a potential record breaking offense this year. If they bring Light back, which looks likely, then the offensive line will be the same, plus a first rounder. The running backs are improved, and mostly add pass catching. Welker is a year healthier. Branch (and to a lesser extent Woodhead) doesn't join the team midseason. They added Ocho. Gronk and Hernandez have a year of experience under their belts. They face a soft schedule. They have a veteran team with a ton of experience together and no turnover at their starting positions on offense in a year when many of their opponents will be working with some combination of new systems, new coaching, and new players on defense. And while their biggest division rival may have "Revis Island", Brady averaged close to 300 yards and 3 TDs against them last year. And it's worth pointing out that yes, Brady is that good. He's got a 4800 yard, 50 TD season under his belt, which is fourth all time in yardage and first all time in touchdowns. So close to 5000 yards and 45 TDs is not impossible. He had a 4400 yard, 28 TD season two years ago while coming back from injury, then his best WR got booted off the team, Welker got injured, the ancient running backs got decimated again, and his TE corps completely overturned with rookies and an ancient guy who is pretty much an extra blocker, and he not only had a record setting, MVP season, he had 36 TDs. And now everything around him is improved. I'm sure that this comes off as homer talk, because I am one of the bigger Brady honks around, but look over the things I just mentioned and tell me how this offense doesn't have a monster year. By any reasonable expectation this should be another fun ride for Patriots fans.
Color me "Sold"I think folks would be wise to listen to Fred on this one. New England is one of the teams I feel has a gigantic advantage because everything runs smoothly over there to begin with but also everything returns and in fact they added to his arsenal of weapons. They are 2-3 deep at WR with Ocho, Welker, Branch, then some nice young guys making strides, 2 deep at TE, lots of RBs that can catch the ball, solid to elite OL to set up behind. It's time to start looking at this seriously. New England was 14-2 last year, went 16-0 in 2007, Brady OUT in 2008, They likely win 13-14 games again this year and they will be blowing teams out. The Pats have no problem putting a 40 mark on teams without apologies and they don't start running the ball when they get up 7-10 points, they pass pass pass until the other team waives the white flag.
 
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First, I agree that Brady's record-breaking, MVP, 4 INT season is highly unlikely to be repeated. But his yardage numbers were low last year - 3900 vs 4400 the year before and 4800 in his last healthy year before that. And a lot of that has to do with the turnovers you're talking about - if a team gets a lot of defensive turnovers, they'll have better starting field position, and they won't be forced to throw as often late in games, and so on.
I think you might be making some assumptions here that are unwarranted. First you have to realize that Moss was a yardage machine for Brady- 2750 yards in the two full years they played together. Moss is also a clock stopper- big pass plays down the sidelines are frequently incomplete (stops the clock) or run out of bounds stops the clock). Shorter passes tend to be completed more and tackled in bounds more. The Patriots had a high efficiency offense last year being tops in scoring while being 22nd in offensive plays run. Despite this they didn't even lead the league in yards/play (5th). The other top 5 scoring teams were #1, #2, #10 and #12 in offensive plays run. In 2007 and 2009 NE was #1 and #2 in plays run. With the Pats stocking up on short to intermediate receivers- drafting multiple TEs and RBs, bringing back Branch and a 33 year old Ocho and development projects like Edelman- their offensive philosophy might simply have shifted towards a mismatch, few mistakes, ball control passing offense. If this happens Brady will struggle to get into the high yardage range (4200+) even though his team will excel.
 
First, I agree that Brady's record-breaking, MVP, 4 INT season is highly unlikely to be repeated. But his yardage numbers were low last year - 3900 vs 4400 the year before and 4800 in his last healthy year before that. And a lot of that has to do with the turnovers you're talking about - if a team gets a lot of defensive turnovers, they'll have better starting field position, and they won't be forced to throw as often late in games, and so on.
I think you might be making some assumptions here that are unwarranted. First you have to realize that Moss was a yardage machine for Brady- 2750 yards in the two full years they played together. Moss is also a clock stopper- big pass plays down the sidelines are frequently incomplete (stops the clock) or run out of bounds stops the clock). Shorter passes tend to be completed more and tackled in bounds more. The Patriots had a high efficiency offense last year being tops in scoring while being 22nd in offensive plays run. Despite this they didn't even lead the league in yards/play (5th). The other top 5 scoring teams were #1, #2, #10 and #12 in offensive plays run. In 2007 and 2009 NE was #1 and #2 in plays run. With the Pats stocking up on short to intermediate receivers- drafting multiple TEs and RBs, bringing back Branch and a 33 year old Ocho and development projects like Edelman- their offensive philosophy might simply have shifted towards a mismatch, few mistakes, ball control passing offense. If this happens Brady will struggle to get into the high yardage range (4200+) even though his team will excel.
Good points but he still is prime for about 4,000+/35-40TD and the New England defense is getting better and better so they might cash in on some short fields. Most leagues a TD is worth about 120 yds so if Brady were to throw for 4,000/40TD, that's actually more FF points than a guy throwing 4.800/30 TD. Also not many QBs in the NFL actually throw over 30 TDs. Last year it was Brady, Manning, Manning, Brees, and Rivers. Year b4 it was Peyton, Favre, Rodgers, and Brees...40 is even more rare but brady is capable of it, no doubt. Ocho...80/1,100/10TD I think those are safe numbers
 
Ocho should get two things - better play from the QB, and more time from the offensive line for plays to develop, but he'll also be involved in a lot of three WR sets with quality receiving options at TE and RB to take looks away from him, so I suspect that he'll be the primary target on fewer plays than Welker, and that he'll get more of his opportunities from finding his way open as a secondary target. That means he should get a higher catch % and a higher YPR, but fewer targets over the course of the season. I also think that Brady will embrace the Ocho antics, at least for a while, by feeding him TD passes, so I expect a few more TDs.

Rought cut numbers:

Ocho 70 catches, 1100 yards, 12 TDs

Welker 100 catches, 1100 yards, 7 TDs

Branch 40 catches, 700 yards, 5 TDs

Gronk 65 catches, 600 yards, 5 TDs

Hernandez 30 catches, 400 yards, 5 TDs

Woodhead 50 catches, 400 yards, 2 TDs
Ultimately, these totals will likely prove to be too high. Counting just this group, that's 4300 yards and 36 TD. Missing from the equation are all the other RBs not named Woodhead and any other receivers (Tate, Edelman, Price as the primary options). There will likely be a few catches by other TEs. Players in the OTHER category accounted for 76-980-8 last year.

Factoring that in, using the numbers projected here, things would likely project out to almost 5000+ passing yards and 45 TDs. Brady's good, but I am not sure he is THAT good.
Yes. I'm expecting close to 5000 yards and 40+ TDs. I've posted in other threads - I think this is a potential record breaking offense this year. If they bring Light back, which looks likely, then the offensive line will be the same, plus a first rounder. The running backs are improved, and mostly add pass catching. Welker is a year healthier. Branch (and to a lesser extent Woodhead) doesn't join the team midseason. They added Ocho. Gronk and Hernandez have a year of experience under their belts. They face a soft schedule. They have a veteran team with a ton of experience together and no turnover at their starting positions on offense in a year when many of their opponents will be working with some combination of new systems, new coaching, and new players on defense. And while their biggest division rival may have "Revis Island", Brady averaged close to 300 yards and 3 TDs against them last year. And it's worth pointing out that yes, Brady is that good. He's got a 4800 yard, 50 TD season under his belt, which is fourth all time in yardage and first all time in touchdowns. So close to 5000 yards and 45 TDs is not impossible. He had a 4400 yard, 28 TD season two years ago while coming back from injury, then his best WR got booted off the team, Welker got injured, the ancient running backs got decimated again, and his TE corps completely overturned with rookies and an ancient guy who is pretty much an extra blocker, and he not only had a record setting, MVP season, he had 36 TDs. And now everything around him is improved.

I'm sure that this comes off as homer talk, because I am one of the bigger Brady honks around, but look over the things I just mentioned and tell me how this offense doesn't have a monster year. By any reasonable expectation this should be another fun ride for Patriots fans.
Color me "Sold"I think folks would be wise to listen to Fred on this one. New England is one of the teams I feel has a gigantic advantage because everything runs smoothly over there to begin with but also everything returns and in fact they added to his arsenal of weapons. They are 2-3 deep at WR with Ocho, Welker, Branch, then some nice young guys making strides, 2 deep at TE, lots of RBs that can catch the ball, solid to elite OL to set up behind. It's time to start looking at this seriously. New England was 14-2 last year, went 16-0 in 2007, Brady OUT in 2008, They likely win 13-14 games again this year and they will be blowing teams out. The Pats have no problem putting a 40 mark on teams without apologies and they don't start running the ball when they get up 7-10 points, they pass pass pass until the other team waives the white flag.
Peyton led the league in attempts last season with 679- Rivers lead the league in yards with 138 fewer attempts because he ran a vertical passing game. When you are differentiating between top QBs how the passing game works is very important to understand. BB and Brady love to step on people's throats with either the running or passing game. they are happy to burn the clock out with 8-12 yard passes and win by 30 but this doesn't automatically equate to being tops in the league in raw numbers.
 
Yes. I'm expecting close to 5000 yards and 40+ TDs. I've posted in other threads - I think this is a potential record breaking offense this year.
After just watching the Pats starting offense waltz down the field against Tampa Bay almost as if there were no defenders on the field, this statement is starting to look a lot more possible and a lot less wishful thinking.
 
Yes. I'm expecting close to 5000 yards and 40+ TDs. I've posted in other threads - I think this is a potential record breaking offense this year.
After just watching the Pats starting offense waltz down the field against Tampa Bay almost as if there were no defenders on the field, this statement is starting to look a lot more possible and a lot less wishful thinking.
And their D just had two straight 3 and outs. If their defense is as improved as it looks, the offense is going to have even MORE opportunities.
 
I scooped up 85 in round 5 of a 10-team 0.5 PPR redraft with 3 starting WRs and heard nothing but snickers. Kind of reminded me of when Moss got drafted in the fourth round in the same league his first year in NE. I was one of the ones snickering back then, but shut up real quick after Moss torched the Jets wk 1 and the rest of the league on the way to 23 TDs.

Do not discount how disfunctional the Bengals were the last couple years. Or how amazing the Pats offense looks to be this year.

The is more likely than not a Dillon/Moss redux. How much is the #1 WR on the league's #1 offense worth?

85/1250/11

 
I would temper enthusiam on Ocho at this point. He's having a very hard time picking up the offense and from what I have heard has been running the wrong routes in practice. I was initially keen on Chad putting up decent numbers and having his numbers take an uptick. Now I would think the opposite. I am not sure if the Pats will dumb it down for 85.

Buyer beware for those taking him as a Top 25 WR. IMO, Branch will have a better season than Ocho.

 
I would temper enthusiam on Ocho at this point. He's having a very hard time picking up the offense and from what I have heard has been running the wrong routes in practice. I was initially keen on Chad putting up decent numbers and having his numbers take an uptick. Now I would think the opposite. I am not sure if the Pats will dumb it down for 85.Buyer beware for those taking him as a Top 25 WR. IMO, Branch will have a better season than Ocho.
Interesting. Thanks.
 
I would temper enthusiam on Ocho at this point. He's having a very hard time picking up the offense and from what I have heard has been running the wrong routes in practice. I was initially keen on Chad putting up decent numbers and having his numbers take an uptick. Now I would think the opposite. I am not sure if the Pats will dumb it down for 85.Buyer beware for those taking him as a Top 25 WR. IMO, Branch will have a better season than Ocho.
Ouch. Thanks for the tip, David.By chance, can you recall and comment on how Moss fared in this regard, especially the first year? I seem to remember him being out with a hammy, but can't fully recall. I always presumed Chad to be a hard worker and a student of the game and not just an athlete and showboat. This insight is very discouraging.
 
I would temper enthusiam on Ocho at this point. He's having a very hard time picking up the offense and from what I have heard has been running the wrong routes in practice. I was initially keen on Chad putting up decent numbers and having his numbers take an uptick. Now I would think the opposite. I am not sure if the Pats will dumb it down for 85.Buyer beware for those taking him as a Top 25 WR. IMO, Branch will have a better season than Ocho.
Yes, given all the news to this effect I'm inclined to walk my earlier projection back a bit. I thought he would snap right to it, and that doesn't seem to be the case. I still have a hard time imagining Branch outproducing him, though. Are we going to see a lot of 3WR/1TE sets, or is it so bad that Ocho will actually be riding pine when they go with 2 TEs?
 
I am also surprised at the exhuberance on display in here. I listened to an interview with Brady on the local talk radio and he went out of his way to mention that it was great to have a full year with the starters (he then mentioned Welker and Branch). He specifically sang the praises of Branch several times. He said the one big change is that Chad is going to come in and play as the third wide reciever. The hosts asked about the rumors that Chad Ochocinco was having a hard time picking up the offense and Brady then said something along the lines that it was tough for Chad because what the Patriots are asking him to do is so different than what he has ever done in Cincinatti.

I think that touchdown that he had in the last pre-season game (where there was literally nobody covering him) is giving people the wrong idea.

I dont think he'll be bad, but I expect something more along the lines of: 60-750-5.

(edited because I cant type and think at the same time)

 
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links saying he is not picking up offense and running wrong routes?
There's surprisingly less out there on the web about this than there is talk here on radio and tv. It's getting talked up a lot here in the media. But here's some of what has made it to the web . . .Boston Globe

Some peripheral stuff on Ocho from Mike Reiss

Bruschi's Comments

Also: (KFFL) New England Patriots WR Chad Ochocinco has had some problems picking up the offense during training camp because it requires more on-the-fly interpretation from the quarterback and receiver than he experienced with the Cincinnati Bengals.

 
links saying he is not picking up offense and running wrong routes?
There's surprisingly less out there on the web about this than there is talk here on radio and tv. It's getting talked up a lot here in the media. But here's some of what has made it to the web . . .Boston Globe

Some peripheral stuff on Ocho from Mike Reiss

Bruschi's Comments

Also: (KFFL) New England Patriots WR Chad Ochocinco has had some problems picking up the offense during training camp because it requires more on-the-fly interpretation from the quarterback and receiver than he experienced with the Cincinnati Bengals.
I mined this from link #2 and found it somewhat encouraging... Senor Ochocinco (Practice field)

Mike,Are my funny tweets becoming a distraction to the other players?

Mike Reiss

(12:21 PM)

I don't see it, Ochocinco. Think you are good right now. The key is what players see inside the facility and by all accounts you are working your tail off.

 
And this...

Justin (New York via Sharon)

Hey Mike! I'm not sure if you're big on the fantasy football, but of all the weapons Brady has at his disposal, if you had to pick one receiver/TE to get the most TD's, who would it be?

Mike Reiss

(12:35 PM)

Justin, I'm not a big fantasy guy at all. I like Ochocinco, Gronkowski and Hernandez as the top TD guys this year. Welker for top receptions.

Full disclosure: there are also a couple other comments by Reiss that do indeed note 85's struggles with the complexity of the offense.

 
Tom Brady has seen the frustration on Chad Ochocinco's face, but he told WEEI-AM on Monday that it's just a matter of time before his new teammate catches on to the New England Patriots' offense."He is (coming along), and he's been a great player for a long time also," Brady said of Ochocinco, a six-time Pro Bowl wide receiver whom the Patriots acquired from the Cincinnati Bengals. "I know, just in talking to him, he gets frustrated when things don't go well for him ... He's racking his brain, 'Why do I feel this way, why do I feel that way?' He and I, we're always in communication. I have a lot of confidence in Chad as a competitor."In the short time that I've been with him, he's really fun to be around. He really loves playing the game. He's going to be an exciting player, I've got no doubt about that."
 
Tom Brady has seen the frustration on Chad Ochocinco's face, but he told WEEI-AM on Monday that it's just a matter of time before his new teammate catches on to the New England Patriots' offense."He is (coming along), and he's been a great player for a long time also," Brady said of Ochocinco, a six-time Pro Bowl wide receiver whom the Patriots acquired from the Cincinnati Bengals. "I know, just in talking to him, he gets frustrated when things don't go well for him ... He's racking his brain, 'Why do I feel this way, why do I feel that way?' He and I, we're always in communication. I have a lot of confidence in Chad as a competitor."In the short time that I've been with him, he's really fun to be around. He really loves playing the game. He's going to be an exciting player, I've got no doubt about that."
I seriously think that the struggles with the offense are going to be fixed and fixed quickly. He's too good off a player (not to mention too proud) to let this get to him. I could be completely wrong but I am still very bullish on Ochocinco.
 
I heard the perfect description of the Ocho situation the other night. He is essentially a rookie coming to camp for the first time (the Pats playbook being a completely foreign language to him). Add to that, unlike most rookies, he did not have the 5 months lead time to have minicamp, training camp, time to review the playbook, or time to adjust to his teammates.

But on tip of that, he's a veteran with slightly diminished skills, a career of aches and pains, having lost a step, without the same able to out gun or shake off defenders.

So he has the worst combination . . . being a rookie that's lost a step.

Ocho's numbers and skills have been doing a slow decline the last couple of years, it's not like I am making this stuff up. And historically receivers switching teams have struggled their first year on a new team as a whole. Yes, I realize the Mosses and Owens of the world did well switching teams, but not everyone does (and the majority do not).

I do not believe that Brady is going to force the ball into Ochocinco if he surveys the fiels and sees any number of weapons open, especially if he looks for Johnson in one place and he is in another.

I think it will take 4-6 games for Ocho to get his feet wet and maybe another month to be fully functional in terms of being a big cog in the Pats offense. I am not saying he can't do, and I am not saying that he won't do. But I do think he will struggle at the beginning of the season. I suspect there will be more 3-36-0 games early on that 8-130-2 outings.

Again, I hope I am wrong, because if he does start the season hot, the Pats will be lighting people up to start the season.

 
I heard the perfect description of the Ocho situation the other night. He is essentially a rookie coming to camp for the first time (the Pats playbook being a completely foreign language to him). Add to that, unlike most rookies, he did not have the 5 months lead time to have minicamp, training camp, time to review the playbook, or time to adjust to his teammates. But on tip of that, he's a veteran with slightly diminished skills, a career of aches and pains, having lost a step, without the same able to out gun or shake off defenders.So he has the worst combination . . . being a rookie that's lost a step.Ocho's numbers and skills have been doing a slow decline the last couple of years, it's not like I am making this stuff up. And historically receivers switching teams have struggled their first year on a new team as a whole. Yes, I realize the Mosses and Owens of the world did well switching teams, but not everyone does (and the majority do not).I do not believe that Brady is going to force the ball into Ochocinco if he surveys the fiels and sees any number of weapons open, especially if he looks for Johnson in one place and he is in another.I think it will take 4-6 games for Ocho to get his feet wet and maybe another month to be fully functional in terms of being a big cog in the Pats offense. I am not saying he can't do, and I am not saying that he won't do. But I do think he will struggle at the beginning of the season. I suspect there will be more 3-36-0 games early on that 8-130-2 outings.Again, I hope I am wrong, because if he does start the season hot, the Pats will be lighting people up to start the season.
So where does the upgrade from the Bengals to the Patriots factor in to your assessment? How about from a noodle the last 2 seasons in Carson Palmer to one of the top3 QBs in the NFL? Any chance that would make a difference? I've scooped him up as my WR3 in so many leagues I've lost track. I also am quick to find a good WR4 and 5 option but I have high expectations. 18 TD to the TEs will not happen again. New England did not have a WR1 on the roster for most of last year.
 
There's a reason why the track record of 30+ WR's going to new teams isn't stellar.

50 650 5 TD

Will be interesting if Ocho can be happy being 'another guy'. I'm not sure how much worse off they'd be going with Branch & Price. I don't think the upside is that great with Ocho at this point or if he's even worth the trouble altogether.

 
I heard the perfect description of the Ocho situation the other night. He is essentially a rookie coming to camp for the first time (the Pats playbook being a completely foreign language to him). Add to that, unlike most rookies, he did not have the 5 months lead time to have minicamp, training camp, time to review the playbook, or time to adjust to his teammates. But on tip of that, he's a veteran with slightly diminished skills, a career of aches and pains, having lost a step, without the same able to out gun or shake off defenders.So he has the worst combination . . . being a rookie that's lost a step.Ocho's numbers and skills have been doing a slow decline the last couple of years, it's not like I am making this stuff up. And historically receivers switching teams have struggled their first year on a new team as a whole. Yes, I realize the Mosses and Owens of the world did well switching teams, but not everyone does (and the majority do not).I do not believe that Brady is going to force the ball into Ochocinco if he surveys the fiels and sees any number of weapons open, especially if he looks for Johnson in one place and he is in another.I think it will take 4-6 games for Ocho to get his feet wet and maybe another month to be fully functional in terms of being a big cog in the Pats offense. I am not saying he can't do, and I am not saying that he won't do. But I do think he will struggle at the beginning of the season. I suspect there will be more 3-36-0 games early on that 8-130-2 outings.Again, I hope I am wrong, because if he does start the season hot, the Pats will be lighting people up to start the season.
So where does the upgrade from the Bengals to the Patriots factor in to your assessment? How about from a noodle the last 2 seasons in Carson Palmer to one of the top3 QBs in the NFL? Any chance that would make a difference? I've scooped him up as my WR3 in so many leagues I've lost track. I also am quick to find a good WR4 and 5 option but I have high expectations. 18 TD to the TEs will not happen again. New England did not have a WR1 on the roster for most of last year.
And where does the fact that the Pats are stacked at every offensive skill position compared to the Bengals enter into your assessment?Once Kevin Faulk comes back, the Pats have 5 viable RBs. Two young and already starting fantasy TE options. Proven big producers with Brady in Branch and Welker (fantasy wise Branch was a borderline fantasy WR1 over the last half of the season) with 3 other WR (Tate, Edelman, and Price) that would be playing more on other teams because they can't get into the lineup in New England.Do people really expect Brady to throw the ball to Ochocinco if he is not in the right spot on the field, is not open, or is double covered? The Pats don't need to be doing that. They aren't the Bengals.Speaking of Cincinatti, if Palmer was so bad, how did T.O. put up Top 10 numbers last year when he was in the lineup? Ocho has averaged 8 fantasy ppg the past three years as predominently the go to guy on his team. That's borderline Top 25. Now he goes to a new team and a new sytem with lots and lots of weapons and he is going to do way better? I don't see it.Again, there are just too many mouths to feed in NE and I don't see them bending over backwards to feed Ocho the ball.
 
I was considering offering Jennings/DWill for McCoy/Ocho but based on how bad Ocho has looked, pretty sure Ive nixed that as much as I want McCoy.

Yudkin has a good point about how many players they have that will get touches and put up numbers as well.

 
So where does the upgrade from the Bengals to the Patriots factor in to your assessment? How about from a noodle the last 2 seasons in Carson Palmer to one of the top3 QBs in the NFL? Any chance that would make a difference? I've scooped him up as my WR3 in so many leagues I've lost track. I also am quick to find a good WR4 and 5 option but I have high expectations.

18 TD to the TEs will not happen again. New England did not have a WR1 on the roster for most of last year.
And where does the fact that the Pats are stacked at every offensive skill position compared to the Bengals enter into your assessment?

Pats don't have a top5 RB, and the TEs were kind of forced into action last year. They could never get the ball to Ben Watson then suddenly bippity bop bam they srike gold with not 1 but 2 rookie TEs. i think on most rosters they would not have seen the light of day last year. I see what you are saying but I think Ocho is way better than Branch ever was and he is playing a completely different position than Welker.

Once Kevin Faulk comes back, the Pats have 5 viable RBs. Two young and already starting fantasy TE options. Proven big producers with Brady in Branch and Welker (fantasy wise Branch was a borderline fantasy WR1 over the last half of the season) with 3 other WR (Tate, Edelman, and Price) that would be playing more on other teams because they can't get into the lineup in New England.

Do people really expect Brady to throw the ball to Ochocinco if he is not in the right spot on the field, is not open, or is double covered? The Pats don't need to be doing that. They aren't the Bengals.

I understand your peeps that cover them feel strongly Ocho is behind the 8 ball. I don't agree that Ocho will be totally lost out there.

Speaking of Cincinatti, if Palmer was so bad, how did T.O. put up Top 10 numbers last year when he was in the lineup? Ocho has averaged 8 fantasy ppg the past three years as predominently the go to guy on his team. That's borderline Top 25. Now he goes to a new team and a new sytem with lots and lots of weapons and he is going to do way better? I don't see it.

TO is a HoF WR 1st ballot, his numbers went down the toilet the 2nd half of last season.

Again, there are just too many mouths to feed in NE and I don't see them bending over backwards to feed Ocho the ball.
I understand your POV David, and quite frankly it's nice to read a contrasting point of view as the majority of players are overvalued but Ocho is there for the taking in the 6th/7th, usually my WR3, and like I say it's a point int he draft where I find some sweet spot WRs in the 7th-10th rounds so I like him and then 1 or 2 more during that part of the draft depending on how many WR slots I have to fill and flex positions.

Again, thanks for the info, you are more dialed into the situation than many here, just feel like in this offense Chad should rack up at least 1,000/8 along the way. I'm not asking him to anchor my team, simply want him to be a cherry on the top.

 
A month ago in this thread (post #5), I listed my doubts on Ochocinco ever reaching the draftninks projections of elite WR paired with elite QB. I trusted my gut and avoided him at all costs in redraft. It's telling that Pats homers and FBG's like Yudkin who are so close to the situation are warning fantasy owners on Ochocinco. This is a complex offense to learn, and Belicheck and Brady do things their way to win, and they don't give much thought to a players ego. Ochocinco came in and brought his circus attitude asking for a roommate with internet and and Xbox. A lot of people had a laugh. But he's had his eyes opened large, and has been humbled since then, and is now seeing the seriousness of his learning curve. The role he thought was exclusively his is too big for him.

He's no spring chicken, and you have seen what happens to great receivers in a short time when they just lose a half step. Ocho's time in the spotlight as the diva stud WR is over, and he can still contribute to this team in a positive way, but I'd never feel confident of plugging him into my starting lineup. The days of 12/150/2 are over. I think it's going to be more like 5/45/0 with an occasional TD sprinkled in there, say 5 TD's total.

 
I heard the perfect description of the Ocho situation the other night. He is essentially a rookie coming to camp for the first time (the Pats playbook being a completely foreign language to him). Add to that, unlike most rookies, he did not have the 5 months lead time to have minicamp, training camp, time to review the playbook, or time to adjust to his teammates. But on tip of that, he's a veteran with slightly diminished skills, a career of aches and pains, having lost a step, without the same able to out gun or shake off defenders.So he has the worst combination . . . being a rookie that's lost a step.Ocho's numbers and skills have been doing a slow decline the last couple of years, it's not like I am making this stuff up. And historically receivers switching teams have struggled their first year on a new team as a whole. Yes, I realize the Mosses and Owens of the world did well switching teams, but not everyone does (and the majority do not).I do not believe that Brady is going to force the ball into Ochocinco if he surveys the fiels and sees any number of weapons open, especially if he looks for Johnson in one place and he is in another.I think it will take 4-6 games for Ocho to get his feet wet and maybe another month to be fully functional in terms of being a big cog in the Pats offense. I am not saying he can't do, and I am not saying that he won't do. But I do think he will struggle at the beginning of the season. I suspect there will be more 3-36-0 games early on that 8-130-2 outings.Again, I hope I am wrong, because if he does start the season hot, the Pats will be lighting people up to start the season.
So where does the upgrade from the Bengals to the Patriots factor in to your assessment? How about from a noodle the last 2 seasons in Carson Palmer to one of the top3 QBs in the NFL? Any chance that would make a difference? I've scooped him up as my WR3 in so many leagues I've lost track. I also am quick to find a good WR4 and 5 option but I have high expectations. 18 TD to the TEs will not happen again. New England did not have a WR1 on the roster for most of last year.
And where does the fact that the Pats are stacked at every offensive skill position compared to the Bengals enter into your assessment?Once Kevin Faulk comes back, the Pats have 5 viable RBs. Two young and already starting fantasy TE options. Proven big producers with Brady in Branch and Welker (fantasy wise Branch was a borderline fantasy WR1 over the last half of the season) with 3 other WR (Tate, Edelman, and Price) that would be playing more on other teams because they can't get into the lineup in New England.Do people really expect Brady to throw the ball to Ochocinco if he is not in the right spot on the field, is not open, or is double covered? The Pats don't need to be doing that. They aren't the Bengals.Speaking of Cincinatti, if Palmer was so bad, how did T.O. put up Top 10 numbers last year when he was in the lineup? Ocho has averaged 8 fantasy ppg the past three years as predominently the go to guy on his team. That's borderline Top 25. Now he goes to a new team and a new sytem with lots and lots of weapons and he is going to do way better? I don't see it.Again, there are just too many mouths to feed in NE and I don't see them bending over backwards to feed Ocho the ball.
:goodposting: That and let's face it too - he is getting up there in age. He still has some in the tank, but the needle is getting closer to the "E" every game he plays.
 
'Diamond One said:
I heard the perfect description of the Ocho situation the other night. He is essentially a rookie coming to camp for the first time (the Pats playbook being a completely foreign language to him). Add to that, unlike most rookies, he did not have the 5 months lead time to have minicamp, training camp, time to review the playbook, or time to adjust to his teammates. But on tip of that, he's a veteran with slightly diminished skills, a career of aches and pains, having lost a step, without the same able to out gun or shake off defenders.So he has the worst combination . . . being a rookie that's lost a step.Ocho's numbers and skills have been doing a slow decline the last couple of years, it's not like I am making this stuff up. And historically receivers switching teams have struggled their first year on a new team as a whole. Yes, I realize the Mosses and Owens of the world did well switching teams, but not everyone does (and the majority do not).I do not believe that Brady is going to force the ball into Ochocinco if he surveys the fiels and sees any number of weapons open, especially if he looks for Johnson in one place and he is in another.I think it will take 4-6 games for Ocho to get his feet wet and maybe another month to be fully functional in terms of being a big cog in the Pats offense. I am not saying he can't do, and I am not saying that he won't do. But I do think he will struggle at the beginning of the season. I suspect there will be more 3-36-0 games early on that 8-130-2 outings.Again, I hope I am wrong, because if he does start the season hot, the Pats will be lighting people up to start the season.
So where does the upgrade from the Bengals to the Patriots factor in to your assessment? How about from a noodle the last 2 seasons in Carson Palmer to one of the top3 QBs in the NFL? Any chance that would make a difference? I've scooped him up as my WR3 in so many leagues I've lost track. I also am quick to find a good WR4 and 5 option but I have high expectations. 18 TD to the TEs will not happen again. New England did not have a WR1 on the roster for most of last year.
And where does the fact that the Pats are stacked at every offensive skill position compared to the Bengals enter into your assessment?Once Kevin Faulk comes back, the Pats have 5 viable RBs. Two young and already starting fantasy TE options. Proven big producers with Brady in Branch and Welker (fantasy wise Branch was a borderline fantasy WR1 over the last half of the season) with 3 other WR (Tate, Edelman, and Price) that would be playing more on other teams because they can't get into the lineup in New England.Do people really expect Brady to throw the ball to Ochocinco if he is not in the right spot on the field, is not open, or is double covered? The Pats don't need to be doing that. They aren't the Bengals.Speaking of Cincinatti, if Palmer was so bad, how did T.O. put up Top 10 numbers last year when he was in the lineup? Ocho has averaged 8 fantasy ppg the past three years as predominently the go to guy on his team. That's borderline Top 25. Now he goes to a new team and a new sytem with lots and lots of weapons and he is going to do way better? I don't see it.Again, there are just too many mouths to feed in NE and I don't see them bending over backwards to feed Ocho the ball.
:goodposting: That and let's face it too - he is getting up there in age. He still has some in the tank, but the needle is getting closer to the "E" every game he plays.
Guys like Ocho and Owens are better off on crappy team where they can kick and scream about not getting the ball..then they get the ball. That stuff does not fly on winning teams.
 
Didn't expect much from Ocho this year (not to this extent of irrelevancy). His lack of complaining is likely the only thing keeping him on this team.

If he stays on the roster all year, it's gonna take a few injuries to the WR group (Branch&Price) for him to do anything.

 
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