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***Official Pittsburgh Pirates 2012 Thread***


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#1 Drunken Cowboy

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:41 PM

I figured it is time to get this started up for next season.

The Barajas signing makes no sense to me at all.

Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 15 November 2011 - 07:57 PM.

D.C.



#2 Eephus

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:55 PM

I figured it is time to get this started up for next season.

The Barajas signing makes no sense to me at all.

They'll lead the league in passed balls if they don't put a catcher in the lineup

#3 Drunken Cowboy

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:59 PM


I figured it is time to get this started up for next season.

The Barajas signing makes no sense to me at all.

They'll lead the league in passed balls if they don't put a catcher in the lineup

I would rather see them play Jaramillo.
D.C.

#4 jfranco77

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:46 AM

None of the Pirates' internal options at catcher can hit AT ALL. They didn't want to sign anyone to a 2-3 year deal and block Sanchez in case he remembers how to play baseball. I would have preferred Ramon Hernandez, but maybe he has Type A/B classification issues, I'm not sure. I wouldn't give up a pick for him.

#5 Copeman

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:59 AM

I don't mind the Barajas signing at all. He gives them a catcher with the most amount of pop the Pirates have had in a long time at that position. Decent enough price tag too. Who else were they gonna put in there? Maybe Spanky will come out of retirement.

#6 fred_1_15301

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:32 AM

I don't mind the Barajas signing at all. He gives them a catcher with the most amount of pop the Pirates have had in a long time at that position. Decent enough price tag too.
Who else were they gonna put in there?
Maybe Spanky will come out of retirement.


I don't mind the signing because there are really no other great options. However, for all the "pop" that Barajas will provide, get used to a .230 BA and sub-300 OBP. What a black hole this position has been for us since Kendall's prime.

:shrug:


#7 monessen

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:15 AM

Though Barajas is 36, and only played in 88 games last year (the second consecutive season of not playing in at least 100 games), he's the only legitimate MLB backstop on the roster. McKenry's .159 BA in the final 2 months of 2011 was not encouraging. It was a major area of need, and the pitching staff collapsed in the last 60 games. This probably distinguishes the Pirates' "commitment" to winning from other teams more than anything: The Brewers are negotiating with Jimmy Rollins, while the Pirates are looking at a cheaper option than Ronny Cedeno. It's some back-up infielder from Detroit who can't hit. Chase D'Ar-"not" the answer since he can't hit either. Unless they can get Cedeno signed to a lower salary than last year, they may as well bat the pitcher 8th. I was sorry to read that talks with Neil Walker on an extension have cooled, but that was apparent when the team named Charlie Morton their "Breakout Player of the Year." Evidently, no one looked at the stats for Morton's final ten starts. To be fair, he was pitching in pain, which again raises the matter of why they didn't shut him down, a la Correia and Maholm. The team will likely now wait until the Cuddyers and Willinghams get signed by other clubs, then go about the usual dumpster-diving. Anybody know if Scott Olson is on a roster? Thanks for starting a new thread. :bye: We needed it.

 

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#8 The Hank

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:28 PM

He makes a nice placeholder at C until Tony Sanchez is ready for the big leagues. Also, having McKenry/Jaramillo as backups not too shabby
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#9 fred_1_15301

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 02:10 PM

He makes a nice placeholder at C until Tony Sanchez is ready for the big leagues. Also, having McKenry/Jaramillo as backups not too shabby

The question is--Will Sanchez ever be ready for the big leagues? Time will tell but it isn't looking promising so far.

:shrug:


#10 Drunken Cowboy

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 04:35 PM

He makes a nice placeholder at C until Tony Sanchez is ready for the big leagues. Also, having McKenry/Jaramillo as backups not too shabby

4 million is a lot of money to spend on a place holder if you are the Pirates.
D.C.

#11 monessen

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:56 PM

Brandon Wood was picked up by the Rockies. Evidently, he played for the Bucs in 2011. The team will be hard-pressed to find someone to replace him who can strike out as often. I don't think Mark Reynolds is available.

 

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But we had an understanding.  I just didn't understand it.

 


#12 Drunken Cowboy

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:22 PM

I like this one more than the last.

There are really no internal options at SS.
D.C.

#13 CrossEyed

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:54 PM

I like this one more than the last.

There are really no internal options at SS.

IMO, Cedeno for 1 year at $3 million made a lot more sense than Barmes for 2 years at $10.5 million.

Hard to understand how this organization continues to make moves that make absolutely no sense.

ETA: Keith Law's take.

Edited by CrossEyed, 21 November 2011 - 12:55 PM.

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#14 monessen

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 09:50 AM

What are the odds the team offers Derrick Lee salary arbitration? While they can sure use him next season, he seems indifferent to being a Pirate and the club isn't going to agree to the kind of cash Lee would expect.

 

Why do we drive on the parkway, but park on the driveway?

 

But we had an understanding.  I just didn't understand it.

 


#15 monessen

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:10 AM

What are the odds the team offers Derrick Lee salary arbitration? While they can sure use him next season, he seems indifferent to being a Pirate and the club isn't going to agree to the kind of cash Lee would expect.

Sorry. It's Derrek. I never seem to spell his first name right.

 

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But we had an understanding.  I just didn't understand it.

 


#16 CrossEyed

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:09 AM

I guess the Pirates "plan" is going to be over before it really began.

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"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is also strong enough to take away everything you have." - Gerald Ford

#17 Doctor Detroit

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 09:36 PM

Planning to go to the Tigers series at PNC in June. :thumbup:

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#18 Eephus

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 10:50 AM

I like the Jake Fox minor league deal as a decent low risk, medium reward move

#19 monessen

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 06:28 AM

Jake Fox might be worth a shot. I see the Bucs did not protect Tim Alderson (or Andrew Lambo) on the 40-man roster. In trades with the Giants, the Pirates received Alderson for Freddy Sanchez and also John Bowker and Joe Martinez for Javier Lopez. Both Lopez and Garcia likely are grateful to Neal Huntington. Without NH, neither player would have been part of a World Series winning team. The Pirates are looking at Aaron Cook. With his 6.03 ERA last year, I'm not sure Hurdle realizes that Aaron Cook's skills, probably like Clint Barmes, may have declined since Hurdle was in Colorado. However, if the Bucs add Cook, he would be ideal, given his stats, as a sub for Morton should Charlie not be ready in time for the start of the 2012 season. If the Pirates want to please some fans during the Winter Caravan, they should find a way to derail talk that extension negotiations with Neil Walker and Andrew McCutchen have "cooled" or "stalled." Those characterizations don't go over well when trying to promote a future contender. The Nationals still owe Adam LaRoche a lot of $$$, but are talking to Prince Fielder? Washington must have much more revenue for salaries than Pittsburgh.

 

Why do we drive on the parkway, but park on the driveway?

 

But we had an understanding.  I just didn't understand it.

 


#20 Leeroy Jenkins

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:42 AM

Can somebody explain the BS going on with the MLB labor deal and the draft? I may be done with baseball. They are keeping the same rules at the MLB level and making it harder to draft talent? Congrats Yanks fans.

OK - then YOU are the ########.


#21 jfranco77

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:56 AM

Can somebody explain the BS going on with the MLB labor deal and the draft? I may be done with baseball. They are keeping the same rules at the MLB level and making it harder to draft talent? Congrats Yanks fans.

Yeah, pretty much. They are taking away the 1 advantage that poor teams have, which is the ability to overspend in the draft and lock up cheap talent. AND they're also capping Latin American spending, so you can't put the money there. Teams who spend too much $$$ in the draft will forfeit picks or face fines. Read Jonah Keri's article here for more details: http://www.grantland...ll-market-clubs This is definitely bad for the Pirates. Luckily they have already got a decent core in the minors, but they can't really improve it now. Maybe if NH is smart enough to be the first one to find the loopholes, but what are the odds of that?

#22 Captain Hook

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:22 PM

of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove).... "The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."
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#23 Eephus

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:26 PM

The amateur draft rules hasn't been the reason the Pirates have sucked for two decades

#24 monessen

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:25 PM

The amateur draft rules hasn't been the reason the Pirates have sucked for two decades

:thumbup: :thumbup:

 

Why do we drive on the parkway, but park on the driveway?

 

But we had an understanding.  I just didn't understand it.

 


#25 Drunken Cowboy

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:56 AM

Can somebody explain the BS going on with the MLB labor deal and the draft? I may be done with baseball. They are keeping the same rules at the MLB level and making it harder to draft talent? Congrats Yanks fans.

Yeah, pretty much. They are taking away the 1 advantage that poor teams have, which is the ability to overspend in the draft and lock up cheap talent. AND they're also capping Latin American spending, so you can't put the money there. Teams who spend too much $$$ in the draft will forfeit picks or face fines. Read Jonah Keri's article here for more details: http://www.grantland...ll-market-clubs This is definitely bad for the Pirates. Luckily they have already got a decent core in the minors, but they can't really improve it now. Maybe if NH is smart enough to be the first one to find the loopholes, but what are the odds of that?

I don't think the draft rules are bad for small market teams. It ups the value of an early pick. Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.
D.C.

#26 Captain Hook

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:59 AM

Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?
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#27 Leeroy Jenkins

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 02:58 PM

Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?

Well it evens out how teams acquire rookies/international players to an extent and takes away teams ability to lock up young players long term on the (relative) cheap, because the MLB playing field is still anything BUT level. So if the Pirates need to build in the draft for several years to have a team in the future, they really can't because you start losing draft picks when you spend on good talent. And then when arbitration years come around, you now have to offer a guaranteed contract based on the top 125 player salaries in order to get draft compensation? The Yanks of the world still get to pick-off talent from around the league in free agency without any checks on it, but you can't pay young players?

Edited by Leeroy Jenkins, 01 December 2011 - 02:59 PM.

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#28 Eephus

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:41 PM

Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?

Well it evens out how teams acquire rookies/international players to an extent and takes away teams ability to lock up young players long term on the (relative) cheap, because the MLB playing field is still anything BUT level. So if the Pirates need to build in the draft for several years to have a team in the future, they really can't because you start losing draft picks when you spend on good talent. And then when arbitration years come around, you now have to offer a guaranteed contract based on the top 125 player salaries in order to get draft compensation? The Yanks of the world still get to pick-off talent from around the league in free agency without any checks on it, but you can't pay young players?

It's not like paying over slot was a market inefficiency the Pirates exploited for years. It wasn't that long ago they were making first round selections of guys like Daniel Moskos who were signable without paying over slot. It was only in the last couple of years that Huntington rolled the dice on paying over slot for Allie and Josh Bell. This tactic will be harder to play under the new agreement but not impossible. On the plus side, it'll keep everybody from overspending on risky high school players.

#29 dparker713

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:57 PM

of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove).... "The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.
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#30 Eephus

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:22 PM

of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove).... "The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.

Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively. The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members. I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.

#31 monessen

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:48 AM

Teams that are poor and dumb will continue to struggle. That is true. In the case of the Pirates, I view them as neither poor nor dumb. The organization is shrewd and brazen. They mislead the public with the claim of building a winner. Yet, the owners, who are not paupers, realize they can turn a decent profit without having to spend much or field a competitive team. Really, where's the incentive? People will still come to the games, buy the merchandise, etc. Hardcore fans have remained loyal. Coonelly and Huntington are champion spin-meisters, and for all the talk about both being or have been on the hot seat(s), they remain the front office ("the best management team in baseball") with NH receiving a 3-year extension. One hopes that, in time, fans will see through the pretense and realize how duped they've been by the semblance of progress.

 

Why do we drive on the parkway, but park on the driveway?

 

But we had an understanding.  I just didn't understand it.

 


#32 dparker713

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:21 AM

of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove).... "The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.

Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively. The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members. I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.

Even the lead negotiator for the owners couldn't claim the draft savings were going to the union members with a straight face for long. As for slotting, that tactical weapon has largely been neutered. Current estimates are that next year's draft budgets will range from 11.5 million to 4.5 million. Meaning the max overslot you can go would be 575k - 225k. Thats for an entire draft. Last season the Pirates spent 17 million including waaaay overslot deals for Garrit Cole, Josh Bell and Clay Holmes. All of those signings were overslot by well more than 575k. The Pirates effectively transformed a second round pick into a top 10 pick and a ninth round pick into a sandwich pick through their aggressive spending. That is no longer possible.
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#33 Eephus

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:25 AM

of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove).... "The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.

Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively. The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members. I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.

Even the lead negotiator for the owners couldn't claim the draft savings were going to the union members with a straight face for long. As for slotting, that tactical weapon has largely been neutered. Current estimates are that next year's draft budgets will range from 11.5 million to 4.5 million. Meaning the max overslot you can go would be 575k - 225k. Thats for an entire draft. Last season the Pirates spent 17 million including waaaay overslot deals for Garrit Cole, Josh Bell and Clay Holmes. All of those signings were overslot by well more than 575k. The Pirates effectively transformed a second round pick into a top 10 pick and a ninth round pick into a sandwich pick through their aggressive spending. That is no longer possible.

The jury is still out on how effective overslotting is going to be. Some of their overslot guys from the 2009 draft struggled this year. Stetson Allie had an ERA of nearly 8 in A ball. Luis Heredia walked 15 in 18 innings. Zack von Rosenberg got shelled. Colton Cain looks legit and it's too early to tell about the 2010 and 2011 picks.

#34 Drunken Cowboy

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:39 AM

Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?

If money is in no way a factor in signing, everybody will go to the Yankees.
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#35 dparker713

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:24 PM

of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove).... "The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.

Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively. The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members. I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.

Even the lead negotiator for the owners couldn't claim the draft savings were going to the union members with a straight face for long. As for slotting, that tactical weapon has largely been neutered. Current estimates are that next year's draft budgets will range from 11.5 million to 4.5 million. Meaning the max overslot you can go would be 575k - 225k. Thats for an entire draft. Last season the Pirates spent 17 million including waaaay overslot deals for Garrit Cole, Josh Bell and Clay Holmes. All of those signings were overslot by well more than 575k. The Pirates effectively transformed a second round pick into a top 10 pick and a ninth round pick into a sandwich pick through their aggressive spending. That is no longer possible.

The jury is still out on how effective overslotting is going to be. Some of their overslot guys from the 2009 draft struggled this year. Stetson Allie had an ERA of nearly 8 in A ball. Luis Heredia walked 15 in 18 innings. Zack von Rosenberg got shelled. Colton Cain looks legit and it's too early to tell about the 2010 and 2011 picks.

For the Pirates? Sure. Overall, not so much.
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#36 McBokonon

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:35 AM

futility dot.
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#37 Leeroy Jenkins

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:35 AM

This lack of urgency I am sensing might force me to not get my typical 10 game package this year. Last season I was kind of excited going into the season. This year I feel meh. They have some time I guess, but Nate Mclouth? Come on now.

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#38 monessen

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:25 AM

To get a sense of what Pirate fans and columnists think of the Bucs' offseason, especially NH's remarks that the team is in great shape: http://communityvoic...in-a-great-spot

 

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#39 The Hank

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:45 AM

There's a rumor making the rounds that the Pirates and SP Erik Bedard are close to a 1 yr, 4.5 mil guaranteed deal. Would be a nice low risk/high reward signing for Pirates.
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#40 CrossEyed

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:58 AM

Nate McLouth? Seriously?
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#41 The Hank

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:06 AM

Nate McLouth? Seriously?

Bench fodder. Your starting OF is Tabata/McCutchen/Presley.
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#42 The Hank

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:10 AM

Also, looking like Pirates will be signing Wilson Betemit as a reserve infielder too.

Just need to improve 1B and things dont look that bad; still not ideal.
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#43 Eephus

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:15 AM

McLouth, Bedard, Betemit It's too bad the new CBA prevents the Pirates being competitive

#44 The Hank

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:19 AM

McLouth, Bedard, Betemit It's too bad the new CBA prevents the Pirates being competitive

The new CBA certainly doesnt help the Pirates, but the reason they've been so bad is a combination of terrible drafting (Littlefield years/Early NH years) leading to a depleted farm system, the blatant lack of commitment towards "league average" resources at the Major League level (consistently in the lowest % of team salary) and the pieces they add to the major league level are retreads that are way past their prime that they throw serious $$$ at (i.e. Derrek Bell, Pat Meares, Jeromy Burnitz, Matt Morris, Benito Santiago, etc...). It was proven for the 1st few months of the year that there are still plenty of fans out there that are interested in the product if they put a product worth coming out to on the field.

Edited by The Hank, 07 December 2011 - 11:21 AM.

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#45 Eephus

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:27 AM

The new CBA certainly doesnt help the Pirates, but the reason they've been so bad is a combination of terrible drafting (Littlefield years/Early NH years) leading to a depleted farm system, the blatant lack of commitment towards "league average" resources at the Major League level (consistently in the lowest % of team salary) and the pieces they add to the major league level are retreads that are way past their prime that they throw serious $$$ at (i.e. Derek Bell, Pat Meares, Jeromy Burnitz, Matt Morris, Benito Santiago, etc...).

Operation Shutdown was classic

#46 CrossEyed

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

Also, looking like Pirates will be signing Wilson Betemit as a reserve infielder too.

Just need to improve 1B and things dont look that bad; still not ideal.

Wow, just wow. This is what 20 years of losing does to a fan base.

The bar hasn't only been lowered, it's rolling down the basement steps.
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#47 monessen

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 02:43 PM

Betemit reportedly is out of the Pirates' plans. No word on Derrek Lee, but talk was he sought a 1-year $12 million deal. Bedard is an intriguing gamble at the price ($4.5 million) when you consider he'll be getting $10 million less next year than what the Marlins agreed to with Mark Buerhle. However, he's the type of player the team will use early in the season and then trade to a contender looking for a lefty starter. In the last 4 seasons, he started 54 games, missing all of 2010, and has a 16-16 W/L record in that span. Low risk, decent reward if he stays healthy. I read the Mets are shopping Ike Davis. But I doubt the Pirates have anything NY needs, not even Hanrahan, especially since the Mets just solidified their bullpen. With these recent acquisitions, the team is inching toward mediocrity. Not there yet, but close.

 

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#48 dparker713

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 03:22 PM

Betemit reportedly is out of the Pirates' plans. No word on Derrek Lee, but talk was he sought a 1-year $12 million deal. Bedard is an intriguing gamble at the price ($4.5 million) when you consider he'll be getting $10 million less next year than what the Marlins agreed to with Mark Buerhle. However, he's the type of player the team will use early in the season and then trade to a contender looking for a lefty starter. In the last 4 seasons, he started 54 games, missing all of 2010, and has a 16-16 W/L record in that span. Low risk, decent reward if he stays healthy. I read the Mets are shopping Ike Davis. But I doubt the Pirates have anything NY needs, not even Hanrahan, especially since the Mets just solidified their bullpen. With these recent acquisitions, the team is inching toward mediocrity. Not there yet, but close.

The Mets would be looking for minor leaguers to trade Davis, so yes, the Pirates would have players that fit into the Mets plans.
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#49 monessen

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:54 PM

If Ike Davis expects more than $6 mil a year, he is not on the radar. Bucs just obtained Yamaico Navarro from KC. This is certainly exciting news given his MLB track record. The strikeout-prone Ian Stewart may no longer be an option (I guess the one-time interest in Garrett Atkins is thankfully dead unless Hurdle inexplicably thinks Atkins can still play). Betemit must have priced himself out of the team's price range, which is very easy to do. Amazing. Barmes, Barajas, Bedard, Jose Morales, etc. Now that we have complementary players in the twilight of average careers, we could use some stars those players can complement. How the Marlins, Brewers, and Mariners can bid for big-time talent like Reyes, Fielder, and Pujols, while Pittsburgh won't even go there ought to underscore to fans what parameters the team operates within. Please don't recite the small market stuff. Quick shots of false hope prevail. The Bucs can't even pursue a Jimmy Rollins or CJ Wilson. We will continue to write off seasons months before they begin until guys like Marte, Locke, and the recently drafted players are ready for the majors. However, by then, the Andrew McCutchen-types will be in the uniforms of contending teams, just like other Bucs the team chose to let loose due to financial "constraints."

 

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#50 Leeroy Jenkins

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:32 AM

So can the Pirates trade for Mark Trumbo now that Pujols is an Angel?

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