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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2012 Off Season Thread


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#1 dgreen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 01:32 PM

Let's get this party started.



#2 dgreen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 01:38 PM

So much for the Bucs helping our draft status. Go Browns!

#3 davidwb

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 01:52 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

#4 DCThunder

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:09 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

+1
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#5 dgreen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:47 PM

Go Browns!



#6 dgreen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:48 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

#7 Brunell4MVP

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:07 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should. Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

#8 ConnSKINS26

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

1. Trade up to #2 overall. 2. Draft RG3. 3. ??? 4. Profit.

When your opinion matters, I'll inform you.


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#9 fatness

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:03 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

Good lord no, not as their future QB anyway. The guy's had one good game his entire career, for a team with more talent than any other team in the league.

#10 dgreen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:13 PM

Should be picking 6th. Should be a really good player available there. It might take too much to trade up for a QB. Trading down and filling the many holes could be the move to make. The biggest needs are probably QB, RT, WR, S. Next level of need would be NT, CB, G, another WR, and K.

#11 Assani Fisher

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:16 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

Good lord no, not as their future QB anyway. The guy's had one good game his entire career, for a team with more talent than any other team in the league.

http://espn.go.com/n...ameId=301219017 More importantly, everything I hear indicates that people in the know think he is a very good QB.

#12 Eastwood

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

1. Trade up to #2 overall. 2. Draft RG3. 3. ??? 4. Profit.

Sounds good to me Mr. Underpants Gnome :thumbup:

#13 fatness

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 06:28 PM

Thanks, I had forgotten about that game. With minimal college experience plenty of people in the know thought Mark Sanchez would be a good NFL quarterback. After a Super Bowl people in the know thought Neil O'Donnell was a good NFL quarterback. Kevin Kolb looks like he got overrated and overpaid based on part of a season of NFL work. Risking a lot of money, and giving the QB position to, a guy with a small body of work seems very risky to me. It also feels uncomfortably like what Dan Snyder used to do every year --- go buy the flashy names of the moment.

Edited by fatness, 01 January 2012 - 06:29 PM.


#14 Eastwood

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

I think it would be worth moving every freaking pick in the 2012 draft to get a franchise QB. Without question. Again, just look at what Cam did for the Panthers. Look at the statistics from 2010 to 2011 Yards per game 2010 - 258 per game 2011 - 389 per game TDs per game 2010 - 1.06 per game 2011 - 3.0 per game Yes, a franchise QB is easily worth giving up an entire draft.

#15 hammerva

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 07:28 PM

Kyle Shannahan has already predicted the NFC East title to the Skins so is a franchise QB really necessary :lmao: I wish Redskin players and coaches would leave the delusional rantings about greatness to the experts on their own radio stations. There arrogance is amazing given how awful they have been

#16 dehaven123

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 07:49 PM

what id like to see this off-season and in preparation for nxt season.... --some combination of...signing Flynn and/or Josh Johnson, draft a couple QB's past 2nd rd., or trade up to get RGIII. :bag: --id also like to see another starting corner and 2 new safeties. cut atogwe and dont resign landry, unless it's below market short term contract. --riley, hankerson, and ghomes all ready to starters full time, coupled w/ 3 legitimate, starting 2012 draft picks. --continued development of royster/helu and re-sign hightower(cant cost much). --low spending free agency, unless value presents itself w a young starting player. --o line.. keep the tackles, both of them. maybe even draft an OT in 1st. need to draft a couple interior linemen. --draft BPA as the draft plan. still a yr away i think.
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#17 ConnSKINS26

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:21 PM

Kyle Shannahan has already predicted the NFC East title to the Skins so is a franchise QB really necessary :lmao: I wish Redskin players and coaches would leave the delusional rantings about greatness to the experts on their own radio stations. There arrogance is amazing given how awful they have been

That wasn't supposed to be reported. It wasn't a statement or an interview. It was a pep talk, between coach and players, that was basically recorded/overheard.

When your opinion matters, I'll inform you.


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#18 SacramentoBob

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:35 PM

Might as well save time and start the 2013 and 2014 off season threads as well.
 

  She brought it hard on Friday and the dude just took it. 

 

 


#19 fatness

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:17 PM

Might as well save time and start the 2013 and 2014 off season threads as well.

It is beginning to feel a bit like Groundhog Day here. Each year it's "we're rebuilding, be patient, have faith", almost as though 6-10 and 5-11 didn't happen. The Skins had 5 FG's blocked by the way. No other team had more than 2, and 14 teams had none at all. I'm sure I'll be told to be patient with Danny Smith. They gave up 30 points in 4 of their last 5 games. I'm sure I'll be told to be patient while they learn Jim Haslett's system. Their biggest weaknesses last offseason were offensive line, QB, and WR. Their biggest weaknesses now are offensive line, QB, DB. I'm sure I'll be told it takes time to rebuild.

#20 fatness

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:31 PM

what id like to see this off-season and in preparation for nxt season.... --some combination of...signing Flynn and/or Josh Johnson, draft a couple QB's past 2nd rd., or trade up to get RGIII. :bag:

My guess is that the Jets will break the bank trying to move up and draft Luck or Griffin.

--id also like to see another starting corner and 2 new safeties. cut atogwe and dont resign landry, unless it's below market short term contract.

I don't see how they can re-sign Landry unless it's a performance-based contract. It seems he's chronically injured, and chronically-injured players take up roster spots and salary with no benefit to the team. Atogwe is also hurt a lot.

--riley, hankerson, and ghomes all ready to starters full time, coupled w/ 3 legitimate, starting 2012 draft picks. --continued development of royster/helu and re-sign hightower(cant cost much).

I'm not sure about Gomes yet, he looks a bit lost in coverage sometimes. But Riley should start and unless I miss my guess Hankerson will be a productive starter next year as well. Maybe I have a little more faith in him than most do, but I think the talent and work ethic are there to be a starter.

--low spending free agency, unless value presents itself w a young starting player.

I agree about wanting young players but I see no need to be low spending. The Skins have $17 million or so in cap money they didn't spend this year, and that $17 million becomes available next year on top of next year's salary cap. I don't want to see them overpay wildly, but being frugal losers doesn't do much for me.

--o line.. keep the tackles, both of them. maybe even draft an OT in 1st. need to draft a couple interior linemen.

I'd get rid of Jamaal Brown. He's injured a lot and below average when he plays. Stop wasting roster space with him if they can get someone younger and at least as capable. Stop wasting roster space on chronically injured guys. He'll never be his old all-pro self again.

--draft BPA as the draft plan.

They need a QB in the worst way.

still a yr away i think.

They better be .500 or better next year.

#21 dgreen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:36 PM

still a yr away i think.

They better be .500 or better next year.

They are far away from being a legit contender, but it really doesn't take much to get to 0.500.

#22 thayman

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:23 PM

Might as well save time and start the 2013 and 2014 off season threads as well.

It is beginning to feel a bit like Groundhog Day here. Each year it's "we're rebuilding, be patient, have faith", almost as though 6-10 and 5-11 didn't happen. The Skins had 5 FG's blocked by the way. No other team had more than 2, and 14 teams had none at all. I'm sure I'll be told to be patient with Danny Smith. They gave up 30 points in 4 of their last 5 games. I'm sure I'll be told to be patient while they learn Jim Haslett's system. Their biggest weaknesses last offseason were offensive line, QB, and WR. Their biggest weaknesses now are offensive line, QB, DB. I'm sure I'll be told it takes time to rebuild.

Fans like you are a big part of the problem. This isn't a microwave fix, it's not going to be taken care of in two years. We discussed this nonstop this past year, you posted several times about the volume of needs we had at the start of the year (everything but TE). Shanny and Allen have done a decent job of putting some quality players in positons of need. But let's scrap all of that, fire the coaching staff and start all over. Then you can complain in two years that Gruden/Cowher/whoever hasn't done a good job in building a team overnight.

Edited by thayman, 01 January 2012 - 10:24 PM.

remember you are unique.....just like everyone else

#23 fatness

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:21 AM

Fans like you are a big part of the problem.

Right, because I pick the players and accept substandard coaching and playing. Fans who accept losing year after year and make excuses for it in resignation are more of a problem than I am. Fans of any other team in the league would be upset after 4 straight last-place finishes and records of 8-8, 4-12, 6-10, and 5-11. Apparently some Skins fans are so beat down it's easier to accept the losing, make excuses for those involved in it, and criticize fans who are pissed off at losing. I remember the radio show with Vinnie and Larry Michael bashing fans for complaining. Seems that tradition is alive and well here. Any time someone's critical the "you just support Dan Snyder's rash decisions" boogeyman card is waved around.

#24 fatness

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:24 AM

There's a good article by Tom Boswell here on rebuilding. He doesn't come down one way or the other on whether Shanahan's doing it right, but it's an informative article and worth a read.

#25 fatness

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:44 AM

The Redskins’ opponents for 2012 – home and away – are now set. In addition to home and away games against their regular NFC East opponents, they will face all four teams from the AFC North, with trips to Cleveland and Pittsburgh and home games against Baltimore and Cincinnati. They face the NFC South, with games at New Orleans and Tampa Bay and home dates against Carolina and Atlanta. And they will host Minnesota, the last-place team from the NFC North, and play at St. Louis, the last-place team from the NFC West. It will be the fifth straight year the Redskins will face the Rams.

Barry Svrluga

#26 southeastjerome

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:57 AM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should. Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

#27 southeastjerome

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:12 AM

Might as well save time and start the 2013 and 2014 off season threads as well.

It is beginning to feel a bit like Groundhog Day here. Each year it's "we're rebuilding, be patient, have faith", almost as though 6-10 and 5-11 didn't happen. The Skins had 5 FG's blocked by the way. No other team had more than 2, and 14 teams had none at all. I'm sure I'll be told to be patient with Danny Smith. They gave up 30 points in 4 of their last 5 games. I'm sure I'll be told to be patient while they learn Jim Haslett's system. Their biggest weaknesses last offseason were offensive line, QB, and WR. Their biggest weaknesses now are offensive line, QB, DB. I'm sure I'll be told it takes time to rebuild.

Well to be fair this was only the 2nd year of Shanahan and Allen's tenure. There has been a lot of roster turnover. I think they have set themselves up to have a nice offseason (now that makes it sound like Groundhog Day) with lots of picks and cap space. If we are staring at 5-11 or 6-10 next year, then I'll be with you. Last offseason D-Line and o-line were the biggest weaknesses imo. The D line was a bright spot this year and Jenkins will be back (word is he could have came back at the end of the season if he wasn't on IR). I thought the o-line was good early on and showed some promise. The need for depth and a dependable RT is still there though. They defintely need some decent depth on the line though.

#28 DCThunder

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:33 PM

go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?

+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should. Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Why draft picks? Isn't he an UFA?
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#29 Brunell4MVP

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:58 PM





go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?


+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should.

Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Bolded part is not correct. UFA.

#30 SacramentoBob

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:06 PM






go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?


+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should.

Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Bolded part is not correct. UFA.

Franchise tag?
 

  She brought it hard on Friday and the dude just took it. 

 

 


#31 DCThunder

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:34 PM







go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?


+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should.

Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Bolded part is not correct. UFA.

Franchise tag?

So the Pack can pay him starter money? That makes no sense to me.
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#32 SacramentoBob

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:05 PM








go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?


+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should.

Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Bolded part is not correct. UFA.

Franchise tag?

So the Pack can pay him starter money? That makes no sense to me.

Didn't the Pats do that with Cassel?
 

  She brought it hard on Friday and the dude just took it. 

 

 


#33 Marvelous

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:58 PM









go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?


+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should.

Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Bolded part is not correct. UFA.

Franchise tag?

So the Pack can pay him starter money? That makes no sense to me.

Didn't the Pats do that with Cassel?

Pats used the franchise tag on Cassel so they could trade him for draft picks. The Packers could do the same thing. The risk is if no one takes him, Flynn could be a $14M backup and make significantly more money than Rogers.

#34 Marvelous

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:05 PM

On resigning Landry, I don't think Landry wants to come back. So it looks like that decision has already been made for the Redskins. The Redskins need to improve the talent everywhere on the team. so if they can draft a good LB, they need to do it. Fletcher is not getting any younger. I think the only positions they could really ignore in the draft is OLB and punter. The blcoked field goals could be an indication of how little OL depth the team still has. They just don't have enough capable blockers up front for the field goals. And as others have stated, they really need a QB in the worst way. I actually think it could be good to draft 2 Qbs in the next draft. Like Elway/Kubiak, or closer to home, Shuler/Ferrotte. Edited to add: Technically Denver did not draft Elway and did not trade for him until days after the draft. The other example that came to mind was Art Schlictter/Mike Pagel.

Edited by Marvelous, 02 January 2012 - 04:12 PM.


#35 MikeApf

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 05:39 PM










go for Flynn and use draft for other needs?


+1

We'll have to wait and see how much he costs.

Exactly. Todays performance means he will cost more than he should.

Flynn is ready to start in the NFL. Anyone drafted is a question mark. I'd say try for Flynn if the $s aren't too high, and look WR/OL with the first few picks in the draft. It will lead to quicker results than using Grossman one more year while Griffin adjusts to NFL playbooks. The one plus with Griffin is this OL is still suspect. His feet would be nice to have back there.

Flynn isn't just going to cost money, he's going to cost draft picks. Still will cost less than trading up. Luckily the Skins do have a full compliment of picks for once. I would love to see them get Flynn, likely costing at least future 1st rounder and then use the #6 pick to get Justin Blackmon. That would go a long way towards improving the offense.

Bolded part is not correct. UFA.

Franchise tag?

So the Pack can pay him starter money? That makes no sense to me.

Didn't the Pats do that with Cassel?

Pats used the franchise tag on Cassel so they could trade him for draft picks. The Packers could do the same thing. The risk is if no one takes him, Flynn could be a $14M backup and make significantly more money than Rogers.

It may be more likely that the Packers will use the franchise tag for Jermichael Finley.

http://profootballta...finley-packers/

#36 champ24

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:40 PM

Assuming Flynn was the real deal it would be nice to pick him up and still have the early first in play versus having to pillage our draft to trade up for RGIII. EIther way we've GOT to find our franchise QB this year or it's another season of spinning our wheels.

#37 thayman

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:15 PM

Fans like you are a big part of the problem.

Right, because I pick the players and accept substandard coaching and playing. Fans who accept losing year after year and make excuses for it in resignation are more of a problem than I am. Fans of any other team in the league would be upset after 4 straight last-place finishes and records of 8-8, 4-12, 6-10, and 5-11. Apparently some Skins fans are so beat down it's easier to accept the losing, make excuses for those involved in it, and criticize fans who are pissed off at losing. I remember the radio show with Vinnie and Larry Michael bashing fans for complaining. Seems that tradition is alive and well here. Any time someone's critical the "you just support Dan Snyder's rash decisions" boogeyman card is waved around.

It's not accepting losing or supporting Snyder's rash decisions, it is living in reality. You have had two seasons of competent coaching and player selection it takes years for this to happen. Last year I remember you agreeing that this is a multi year rebuild. Now you want to blow it up after two seasons? Give me a break, good teams don't get built in two years. If this team has a poor showing next year then you may have a case. Multi-year rebuild means 3-5 years, not two.
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#38 TobiasFunke

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 05:46 AM

Fans like you are a big part of the problem.

Right, because I pick the players and accept substandard coaching and playing. Fans who accept losing year after year and make excuses for it in resignation are more of a problem than I am. Fans of any other team in the league would be upset after 4 straight last-place finishes and records of 8-8, 4-12, 6-10, and 5-11. Apparently some Skins fans are so beat down it's easier to accept the losing, make excuses for those involved in it, and criticize fans who are pissed off at losing. I remember the radio show with Vinnie and Larry Michael bashing fans for complaining. Seems that tradition is alive and well here. Any time someone's critical the "you just support Dan Snyder's rash decisions" boogeyman card is waved around.

It's not accepting losing or supporting Snyder's rash decisions, it is living in reality. You have had two seasons of competent coaching and player selection it takes years for this to happen. Last year I remember you agreeing that this is a multi year rebuild. Now you want to blow it up after two seasons? Give me a break, good teams don't get built in two years. If this team has a poor showing next year then you may have a case. Multi-year rebuild means 3-5 years, not two.

I argued a similar point several times in the other thread, but at this point we're starting year 3 of a 3-5 year rebuild. They probably need a QB in the system now if they expect to be a playoff team in year 4 or 5, and it's fair to expect at least, say, 7-9 or 8-8 in Year 3. I'd bring the Shanahans back for Year 4 no matter how this year goes (unless everything goes completely to hell), but we're getting close to the time when it's reasonable to start expecting signs of real progress.

#39 MikeApf

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:23 AM

Fans like you are a big part of the problem.

Right, because I pick the players and accept substandard coaching and playing. Fans who accept losing year after year and make excuses for it in resignation are more of a problem than I am. Fans of any other team in the league would be upset after 4 straight last-place finishes and records of 8-8, 4-12, 6-10, and 5-11. Apparently some Skins fans are so beat down it's easier to accept the losing, make excuses for those involved in it, and criticize fans who are pissed off at losing. I remember the radio show with Vinnie and Larry Michael bashing fans for complaining. Seems that tradition is alive and well here. Any time someone's critical the "you just support Dan Snyder's rash decisions" boogeyman card is waved around.

It's not accepting losing or supporting Snyder's rash decisions, it is living in reality. You have had two seasons of competent coaching and player selection it takes years for this to happen. Last year I remember you agreeing that this is a multi year rebuild. Now you want to blow it up after two seasons? Give me a break, good teams don't get built in two years. If this team has a poor showing next year then you may have a case. Multi-year rebuild means 3-5 years, not two.

I argued a similar point several times in the other thread, but at this point we're starting year 3 of a 3-5 year rebuild. They probably need a QB in the system now if they expect to be a playoff team in year 4 or 5, and it's fair to expect at least, say, 7-9 or 8-8 in Year 3. I'd bring the Shanahans back for Year 4 no matter how this year goes (unless everything goes completely to hell), but we're getting close to the time when it's reasonable to start expecting signs of real progress.

The Redskins can and should make additional progress next year, and one of the key aspects of the game they need to address is turnovers. Each and every year giveaway/takeaway ratio is correlated strongly to wins and losses. This year's NFC stats from ESPN just for an example: RK TEAM INT FUM TOTAL INT FUM TOTAL DIFF 1 San Francisco 21 15 36 5 5 10 26 -- PLAYOFF TEAM 2 Green Bay 29 5 34 7 5 12 22 -- PLAYOFF TEAM 3 Detroit 20 12 32 14 5 19 13 -- PLAYOFF TEAM 4 Seattle 21 8 29 13 9 22 7 5 Dallas 15 10 25 11 8 19 6 Atlanta 16 9 25 12 7 19 6 -- PLAYOFF TEAM 7 NY Giants 19 10 29 16 8 24 5 -- PLAYOFF TEAM 8 Chicago 17 11 28 19 7 26 2 Carolina 13 10 23 16 5 21 2 10 St. Louis 12 6 18 8 13 21 -3 Minnesota 7 13 20 14 9 23 -3 12 New Orleans 8 6 14 13 5 18 -4 -- PLAYOFF TEAM 13 Arizona 9 9 18 22 8 30 -12 14 Philadelphia 14 9 23 24 12 36 -13 15 Tampa Bay 13 9 22 21 15 36 -14 16 Washington 12 7 19 23 11 34 -15 5 of the 6 teams into the NFC playoffs were in the top 7 in giveaway/takeaway ranking. The 6th team, New Orleans, has such a prolific offense that they can mask the descrepency. But the point is: there is a serious correlation. This is the major reason why getting a new QB is absolutely the priority for the team. Rex can throw and move the ball, but he averages 2 INTS a game, plus you have to throw fumbles in there. Based on stats year in and year out, that costs you wins, period. Yes, a "new guy or rookie" is gonna turn it over, but the difference is that he's doing it while learning not to, whereas Rex just will keep doing it. I saw where regarding Rex's pick vs. the Eagles he basically said it wasn't totally his fault because it was tipped. However, he was under a heavy rush and he made the decision to hurl it out there while being hit, Armstrong had to slow up because the ball was short, and this resulted in it being tipped. For Rex to not even recognize that his poor decision factored into the tip is not acceptable. And no I am not a "hater" ... it's just a fact you have to make better decisions. But what I am trying to say is, everyone acts like it will take the Redskins 5 years to have a winning team. But what I am saying is there are things they can do that will make a BIG change. Turnovers is one. Even offensive line is not as terrible as everyone says. Yes, we need more depth there, but at the end of the year, Helu and Royster were ripping off 100 yard games. And Rex wasn't under the kind of pressure Jason Campbell used to be under. But it's become a mantra among Redskins fans to say, "we need 5 years because we have no offensive linemen." Look, we need more offensive lineman, but to act like these guys aren't pros capable of blocking is not true either. I'm telling you, if we had a QB capable of keeping down turnovers, it will change the team dramatically. Maybe not playoffs right away, but it will swing several games, I believe and that's already taking you half of the way there. So, anyway, I think they can make significant progress this year and we should expect it. It may not translate to wins right away as a new QB learns the system, but we need to start down the path at the very least.

Edited by MikeApf, 03 January 2012 - 07:24 AM.


#40 zamboni

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:28 AM

Question for the Skins homers: what are your thoughts as to who of Helu/Royster/Hightower (if he returns)/Other is the most likely to at least get the first crack at the starting RB gig next year? Granted, Shanahan will always play his games, but just curious as to whose skill set best fits what Mike and son are looking for. Kyle had some good things to say about Royster at the end (calling him a "natural"), but it seems like Helu did a lot of good things as well before he got hurt. TIA

#41 dgreen

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:00 AM

I think Royster has looked the most comfortable in the system. Before Helu was hurt and after he rattled off three straight 100-yard games, I heard a local beat reporter say he didn't believe that the coaching staff was sold on Helu and that they really see him more as a #2 guy. So, there's some evidence that they'd like to find someone better for the RB1 spot, but I'm not sure if they have that person yet. I'd like to see Hightower back and let the three RBs battle it out in camp and preseason.

#42 MikeApf

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:27 AM

I think Royster has looked the most comfortable in the system. Before Helu was hurt and after he rattled off three straight 100-yard games, I heard a local beat reporter say he didn't believe that the coaching staff was sold on Helu and that they really see him more as a #2 guy. So, there's some evidence that they'd like to find someone better for the RB1 spot, but I'm not sure if they have that person yet. I'd like to see Hightower back and let the three RBs battle it out in camp and preseason.

It's nice to see the Redskins with a "good problem" to address -- 3 RBs who each seem to be legitimate NFL starters. The short answer to the question is that it may not matter who the starter is. The Redskins have 3 good RBs that they can get into the game as the situation allows. Nabbing Helu and Royster in mid to late rounds should also give folks some hope that Shanahan is not a complete dud in terms of player evaluation. Those are good pickups, no matter who ends up starting. The success of the running game coming home also raises the issue of how good/bad the offensive line is. It has been fashionable among Redskins fans to say that we have basically no offensive line beyond Trent Williams. However, I wonder if this is somewhat a function of Clinton Portis' terrible last few seasons and the fact that Jason Campbell took a pounding. The patchwork offensive line we closed with has played significantly better than those days. Not saying that we don't need more lineman, we certainly do. I just wonder if that cupboard is as bare as is often thought to be among the fanbase?

#43 Marvelous

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:11 AM

I think Royster has looked the most comfortable in the system. Before Helu was hurt and after he rattled off three straight 100-yard games, I heard a local beat reporter say he didn't believe that the coaching staff was sold on Helu and that they really see him more as a #2 guy. So, there's some evidence that they'd like to find someone better for the RB1 spot, but I'm not sure if they have that person yet. I'd like to see Hightower back and let the three RBs battle it out in camp and preseason.

It's nice to see the Redskins with a "good problem" to address -- 3 RBs who each seem to be legitimate NFL starters. The short answer to the question is that it may not matter who the starter is. The Redskins have 3 good RBs that they can get into the game as the situation allows. Nabbing Helu and Royster in mid to late rounds should also give folks some hope that Shanahan is not a complete dud in terms of player evaluation. Those are good pickups, no matter who ends up starting. The success of the running game coming home also raises the issue of how good/bad the offensive line is. It has been fashionable among Redskins fans to say that we have basically no offensive line beyond Trent Williams. However, I wonder if this is somewhat a function of Clinton Portis' terrible last few seasons and the fact that Jason Campbell took a pounding. The patchwork offensive line we closed with has played significantly better than those days. Not saying that we don't need more lineman, we certainly do. I just wonder if that cupboard is as bare as is often thought to be among the fanbase?

I have mentioned a couple of time, the run blocking has really improved over the past 5-6 weeks. The whole offense really picked up once, of all things, Santana Moss returned. But specifically to the OL, the pass blocking improved quite a bit, but it is still not great. The run blocking has improved significantly. And this is with Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt starting on the left side. In the beginning of the year, the pass blocking was poor and the run blocking was horrendous. They still need depth on the OL, maybe even upgrading a starter if they can develop one. RT looks to be the weakest position on the OL right now. Maybe Smith and Hurt and challenge for spots at RT and RG next year.

#44 Warrior

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:18 AM

I think it would be worth moving every freaking pick in the 2012 draft to get a franchise QB. Without question. Again, just look at what Cam did for the Panthers. Look at the statistics from 2010 to 2011 Yards per game 2010 - 258 per game 2011 - 389 per game TDs per game 2010 - 1.06 per game 2011 - 3.0 per game Yes, a franchise QB is easily worth giving up an entire draft.

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#45 DCThunder

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:20 AM

I think Royster has looked the most comfortable in the system. Before Helu was hurt and after he rattled off three straight 100-yard games, I heard a local beat reporter say he didn't believe that the coaching staff was sold on Helu and that they really see him more as a #2 guy. So, there's some evidence that they'd like to find someone better for the RB1 spot, but I'm not sure if they have that person yet. I'd like to see Hightower back and let the three RBs battle it out in camp and preseason.

It's nice to see the Redskins with a "good problem" to address -- 3 RBs who each seem to be legitimate NFL starters. The short answer to the question is that it may not matter who the starter is. The Redskins have 3 good RBs that they can get into the game as the situation allows. Nabbing Helu and Royster in mid to late rounds should also give folks some hope that Shanahan is not a complete dud in terms of player evaluation. Those are good pickups, no matter who ends up starting. The success of the running game coming home also raises the issue of how good/bad the offensive line is. It has been fashionable among Redskins fans to say that we have basically no offensive line beyond Trent Williams. However, I wonder if this is somewhat a function of Clinton Portis' terrible last few seasons and the fact that Jason Campbell took a pounding. The patchwork offensive line we closed with has played significantly better than those days. Not saying that we don't need more lineman, we certainly do. I just wonder if that cupboard is as bare as is often thought to be among the fanbase?

I have mentioned a couple of time, the run blocking has really improved over the past 5-6 weeks. The whole offense really picked up once, of all things, Santana Moss returned. But specifically to the OL, the pass blocking improved quite a bit, but it is still not great. The run blocking has improved significantly. And this is with Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt starting on the left side. In the beginning of the year, the pass blocking was poor and the run blocking was horrendous. They still need depth on the OL, maybe even upgrading a starter if they can develop one. RT looks to be the weakest position on the OL right now. Maybe Smith and Hurt and challenge for spots at RT and RG next year.

Is it simply a coincidence that the running game got significantly better AFTER the Davis/Williams suspensions and putting Jamal Brown on IR? Should Williams be traded NOW so that some other team can take the risk that he's going to be a bust?
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#46 MikeApf

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:44 AM

I think Royster has looked the most comfortable in the system. Before Helu was hurt and after he rattled off three straight 100-yard games, I heard a local beat reporter say he didn't believe that the coaching staff was sold on Helu and that they really see him more as a #2 guy. So, there's some evidence that they'd like to find someone better for the RB1 spot, but I'm not sure if they have that person yet. I'd like to see Hightower back and let the three RBs battle it out in camp and preseason.

It's nice to see the Redskins with a "good problem" to address -- 3 RBs who each seem to be legitimate NFL starters. The short answer to the question is that it may not matter who the starter is. The Redskins have 3 good RBs that they can get into the game as the situation allows. Nabbing Helu and Royster in mid to late rounds should also give folks some hope that Shanahan is not a complete dud in terms of player evaluation. Those are good pickups, no matter who ends up starting. The success of the running game coming home also raises the issue of how good/bad the offensive line is. It has been fashionable among Redskins fans to say that we have basically no offensive line beyond Trent Williams. However, I wonder if this is somewhat a function of Clinton Portis' terrible last few seasons and the fact that Jason Campbell took a pounding. The patchwork offensive line we closed with has played significantly better than those days. Not saying that we don't need more lineman, we certainly do. I just wonder if that cupboard is as bare as is often thought to be among the fanbase?

I have mentioned a couple of time, the run blocking has really improved over the past 5-6 weeks. The whole offense really picked up once, of all things, Santana Moss returned. But specifically to the OL, the pass blocking improved quite a bit, but it is still not great. The run blocking has improved significantly. And this is with Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt starting on the left side. In the beginning of the year, the pass blocking was poor and the run blocking was horrendous. They still need depth on the OL, maybe even upgrading a starter if they can develop one. RT looks to be the weakest position on the OL right now. Maybe Smith and Hurt and challenge for spots at RT and RG next year.

Is it simply a coincidence that the running game got significantly better AFTER the Davis/Williams suspensions and putting Jamal Brown on IR? Should Williams be traded NOW so that some other team can take the risk that he's going to be a bust?

What do you think they could get for Williams?

#47 Marvelous

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:09 AM

I think Royster has looked the most comfortable in the system. Before Helu was hurt and after he rattled off three straight 100-yard games, I heard a local beat reporter say he didn't believe that the coaching staff was sold on Helu and that they really see him more as a #2 guy. So, there's some evidence that they'd like to find someone better for the RB1 spot, but I'm not sure if they have that person yet. I'd like to see Hightower back and let the three RBs battle it out in camp and preseason.

It's nice to see the Redskins with a "good problem" to address -- 3 RBs who each seem to be legitimate NFL starters. The short answer to the question is that it may not matter who the starter is. The Redskins have 3 good RBs that they can get into the game as the situation allows. Nabbing Helu and Royster in mid to late rounds should also give folks some hope that Shanahan is not a complete dud in terms of player evaluation. Those are good pickups, no matter who ends up starting. The success of the running game coming home also raises the issue of how good/bad the offensive line is. It has been fashionable among Redskins fans to say that we have basically no offensive line beyond Trent Williams. However, I wonder if this is somewhat a function of Clinton Portis' terrible last few seasons and the fact that Jason Campbell took a pounding. The patchwork offensive line we closed with has played significantly better than those days. Not saying that we don't need more lineman, we certainly do. I just wonder if that cupboard is as bare as is often thought to be among the fanbase?

I have mentioned a couple of time, the run blocking has really improved over the past 5-6 weeks. The whole offense really picked up once, of all things, Santana Moss returned. But specifically to the OL, the pass blocking improved quite a bit, but it is still not great. The run blocking has improved significantly. And this is with Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt starting on the left side. In the beginning of the year, the pass blocking was poor and the run blocking was horrendous. They still need depth on the OL, maybe even upgrading a starter if they can develop one. RT looks to be the weakest position on the OL right now. Maybe Smith and Hurt and challenge for spots at RT and RG next year.

Is it simply a coincidence that the running game got significantly better AFTER the Davis/Williams suspensions and putting Jamal Brown on IR? Should Williams be traded NOW so that some other team can take the risk that he's going to be a bust?

I have thought about this, but it is hard to imagine that Willie Smith > Trent Williams. And Maurice Hurt > Kory Litchensteiger. If Smith really is better than Williams, I would try Williams at RT. Most busts at LT can still play other positions on the OL.

#48 Marvelous

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:18 AM

Heard on ESPN 980 today. Chris Russell and Tom Lavarro both liked signing Flynn if he is an unrestricted free agent. Earlier, Doc Walker said he would NOT trade up for a QB. The key is finding players in the draft and no going after the players hyped up in magazined. Not sure if that was a shot at Vinnie, but it is fun to think it was.

#49 Sidewinder16

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 12:59 PM

Is it simply a coincidence that the running game got significantly better AFTER the Davis/Williams suspensions and putting Jamal Brown on IR? Should Williams be traded NOW so that some other team can take the risk that he's going to be a bust?

I have thought about this, but it is hard to imagine that Willie Smith > Trent Williams. And Maurice Hurt > Kory Litchensteiger. If Smith really is better than Williams, I would try Williams at RT. Most busts at LT can still play other positions on the OL.

I brought this up a few weeks ago and have been thinking about if for awhile, too. The thing of it is, for offensive linemen especially, player A may be better than player B in a vacuum, but within a certain system and/or in conjuction with certain other players, player A may not be a better player for a team/scheme than player B. Now, I'm in no position to say that Willie Smith is the better LT for the Redskins going forward. But I can certainly see that the unit as a whole has produced better since Williams has been suspended than it did when he was starting. Maybe it is coincidence. But maybe it's just that the current pieces "fit" better together. Either way, I'm hoping Williams can be a "good fitting piece" in the future, mainly because he's loaded with talent.

#50 DCThunder

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 01:35 PM

Is it another coincidence that the Patriots started on a possible run to the Super Bowl and the Buccaneers started on their 10 game slide at the point where Fat Albert got cut by the Pats and signed by the Bucs? And is it somehow poetic justice that Steve Spagnolo, who was too good to interview with the Skins 4 years ago before the Zorn debacle, was just fired by the Rams after having several miserable seasons?

Edited by DCThunder, 03 January 2012 - 01:37 PM.

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