29 replies to this topic

[yankdog]

I'd like to introduce you to the worst team I've ever picked up in my life. It is in a PPR, Dynasty League, 24 on a roster. The roster was a little better but I sold off some aging assets for picks. I'd love to know what serious dynasty rebuilders have to say about this team and what strategy I should adopt, from draft strategy next year, to any further trades and moves, to how many years away you think I am from competing.

Total Starters: 10
Number of Starting QBs: 1
Number of Starting RBs: 2-4
Number of Starting WRs: 2-4
Number of Starting TEs: 1-3
Number of Starting PKs: 1
Number of Starting Defs:1

Before you say I should just sell this team and move on, I should tell you that I love this dynasty mess and wouldn't sell it for the world. This is a labor of love and I'm in it for the long haul-even if that is 2023 LOL.

Any advice welcome.

Thanks.

QB: Manning, P and McCoy
RB: Ball,Green-Ellis,Morris,Ogbonnaya,
WRs: Benn,Burleson,Decker,Doucet,Driver,Hankerson, Jones, J, Simpson, J, Tate, G
TE: Clark, D
K: Hanson, J
Def: Bengals, C

Draft Picks: 1.02, 1.03, 1.07, 2.01, 2.02, 3.02, 3.03.

[loose circuits]

continue to sell old guys- D. Clark and P. Manning. would probably move BGE and Burleson as well for whatever i could get

stock up on young WR's...

Edited by loose circuits, 21 February 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[Zimm]

I would try to sell pretty much everyone on your team and try to build around Hankerson and your picks. Mannning,Benn,Tate,Decker might be ok trade bait to draw in some picks. I would try to continue to move up in your draft and then try very hard to hit the waiver wire, and i have taken over teams this bad and you pretty much have to gut it and go with a 2 year suck plan and then hope you hit on a few rookies and compete in the 3rd year.

[bmsarvis]

Is that julio orjames jones im assuming james. But i def agree with moving Peyton n clark even if its for next years picks.goodluck

[ghostguy123]

You will not be able to compete for like 4-5 years, and that is even if you "hit" on a good amount of draft picks.

However, if you pretty much completely dismiss this season's picks and players, I think you can.

Obviously deal all your players for any future 1sts and 2nds that you can.

I would deal all of your current draft picks for more picks this year plus future 1sts.

For example, trade pick 2 to a team that maybe has a couple late 1sts, and get their future 1st also,.
Also deal pick 3 for a mid 1st and future 1sts.

You want to do whatever you can to get 3-4 1st rounders starting next year, and have about that many 1sts and 2nds for about 2-3 years in a row afterwards. Hit on some picks, maybe make a good waiver move or trade along the way, and hope for the best.

I took over a team 4 years ago with the same issues, I dealt EVERY worthwhile player and spent the year doing nothing but trying to sign guys off waivers that might have value at some point. I totally sucked for 2 years, but put up some wins in 2010, and made the playoffs last year.

[yankdog]

Is that julio orjames jones im assuming james. But i def agree with moving Peyton n clark even if its for next years picks.goodluck

James Jones...no Julio LOL. I wish...

[yankdog]

You will not be able to compete for like 4-5 years, and that is even if you "hit" on a good amount of draft picks.

However, if you pretty much completely dismiss this season's picks and players, I think you can.

Obviously deal all your players for any future 1sts and 2nds that you can.

I would deal all of your current draft picks for more picks this year plus future 1sts.

For example, trade pick 2 to a team that maybe has a couple late 1sts, and get their future 1st also,.
Also deal pick 3 for a mid 1st and future 1sts.

You want to do whatever you can to get 3-4 1st rounders starting next year, and have about that many 1sts and 2nds for about 2-3 years in a row afterwards. Hit on some picks, maybe make a good waiver move or trade along the way, and hope for the best.

I took over a team 4 years ago with the same issues, I dealt EVERY worthwhile player and spent the year doing nothing but trying to sign guys off waivers that might have value at some point. I totally sucked for 2 years, but put up some wins in 2010, and made the playoffs last year.

I actually think your time frame is correct: 4 to 5 years, not the usual 2 to 3. This team is such a challenge. I've picked up rebuilds before but I really wanted one that would be all my creation by the end of it. Here it is. Problem is that I am not finding anyone to trade picks for some of the remaining guys. Of course, Manning may have greater value if he goes somewhere and plays. But the younger RBs are just not tradeable. BJGE no one wants but I can understand that. Later in the year when his situation settles perhaps.

[ghostguy123]

yeah, your best bet is really to deal all your picks for multiple good picks, then do the same next year, and hope to end up with like 8-9 1sts in 2014. Your own pick will be #1 a couple years in a row cause you SUCK, haha, so that pick alone should net you several extra 1sts each year.

[yankdog]

yeah, your best bet is really to deal all your picks for multiple good picks, then do the same next year, and hope to end up with like 8-9 1sts in 2014. Your own pick will be #1 a couple years in a row cause you SUCK, haha, so that pick alone should net you several extra 1sts each year.

So, I have the 1.2, 1.3, and 1.7 this year. Which one(s) do you think I ought to trade back for picks next year? I assume the answer is all of them based on your statement. I see the logic to this actually. This year's draft is perceived as better than next years so its the time to trade back. Say 1.7 this year should be moved for a 2012 2nd (deep WR class!) and 2013 first to take advantage of the low cost of 2013 picks and overvaluing of 2012 picks. And obviously I should do this as close to the draft as I can.

Sound right?

And yeah I'll suck and get a couple or three years of 1.1 picks for sure LOL.

I assume the guys I have to pick up as lottery tickets of the wire are they guys just below Bilal Powell at RB and players like Gettis at WR to see if they pan out. I am talking about early Waiver Wire activity on long shots.

Ah this is going to be fun.

Thanks.

[ghostguy123]

Yeah, pick 2 has a ton of value, so maybe someone has a couple mid-late 1sts right now, and you can get those plus that guys 2013 1st.

Pick 3 I would deal for a pick around 8 and a future 1st.

You should come away with a few late 1sts this year I guess, plus some other picks in the 2nd and 3rd. And end up with about 3-4 2013 1sts, in which case next year do more of the same.

[loose circuits]

I wouldn't be moving multiple top picks in that format unless I am getting ridiculous value. Roster spots are also valuable because guys come off waivers that can develop into something every year. Get your studs at the top of the draft. Baldwin fits the bill for what you should be looking for as WR have long shelf lives

[squistion]

You will not be able to compete for like 4-5 years, and that is even if you "hit" on a good amount of draft picks.

However, if you pretty much completely dismiss this season's picks and players, I think you can.

Obviously deal all your players for any future 1sts and 2nds that you can.

I would deal all of your current draft picks for more picks this year plus future 1sts.

For example, trade pick 2 to a team that maybe has a couple late 1sts, and get their future 1st also,.
Also deal pick 3 for a mid 1st and future 1sts.

You want to do whatever you can to get 3-4 1st rounders starting next year, and have about that many 1sts and 2nds for about 2-3 years in a row afterwards. Hit on some picks, maybe make a good waiver move or trade along the way, and hope for the best.

I took over a team 4 years ago with the same issues, I dealt EVERY worthwhile player and spent the year doing nothing but trying to sign guys off waivers that might have value at some point. I totally sucked for 2 years, but put up some wins in 2010, and made the playoffs last year.

I actually think your time frame is correct: 4 to 5 years, not the usual 2 to 3. This team is such a challenge. I've picked up rebuilds before but I really wanted one that would be all my creation by the end of it. Here it is. Problem is that I am not finding anyone to trade picks for some of the remaining guys. Of course, Manning may have greater value if he goes somewhere and plays. But the younger RBs are just not tradeable. BJGE no one wants but I can understand that. Later in the year when his situation settles perhaps.

If that is what you wanted, wouldn't a brand new start up league have been a better way to go? I know some people really like the challenge of a rebuild, but if you are tearing the whole thing down anyway...just sayin'...

[yankdog]

I wouldn't be moving multiple top picks in that format unless I am getting ridiculous value. Roster spots are also valuable because guys come off waivers that can develop into something every year. Get your studs at the top of the draft. Baldwin fits the bill for what you should be looking for as WR have long shelf lives

I agree that if someone moves a top draft pick this year it would have to be for some real value in next years draft as well as this year's draft. I assume, for instance that this year's 1.03 might be worth a last 1st in 2012, early/mid 2nd in 2012, and a first in 2013.. I am assuming that I will land a 2013 that is not as good as 1.03 for sake of discussion about value.

Big question is with 1.02, 1.03, and 1.07 which ones do you use now and which ones do you trade back for later picks (for this year or next). Since Luck is probably a luxury I can't or shouldn't afford right now, and since I believe Blackmon may not have great separation vs other WRs in terms of talent in this year's draft, one of the first two picks I should probably trade back for more picks and a first in 2013. I need to think about this a little more.

[JPeso]

Yank! What a challenge. You will do well so long as you don't "expect" more in return than folks are willing to give. I'd deal every single piece if I could, but wouldn't sell too low on Benn and Hankerson (not saying I wouldn't deal, just that they are your most valuable). Most of the guys above might only get a 3rd or 4th, but I'd do it. Try to squeeze a 2nd out of PM.

[yankdog]

Yank! What a challenge. You will do well so long as you don't "expect" more in return than folks are willing to give. I'd deal every single piece if I could, but wouldn't sell too low on Benn and Hankerson (not saying I wouldn't deal, just that they are your most valuable). Most of the guys above might only get a 3rd or 4th, but I'd do it. Try to squeeze a 2nd out of PM.

Hey Peso! I thought you'd come around and comment on this dilemma. Great team don't ya think? I truly love this one actually. Benn and Hank are probably keepers unless folks are willing to overpay which they won't LOL. PM is a good question. Squeeze a second now or see if he lands well and starts the season and go for a higher 2013 from some contending team. I agree they all must go for the most part.

[Warhogs]

This certainly is a big project. A few things I might add...

Peyton. If you can't get much pick I would hold for now. If he does come back his value is only going to go up. I would hold for now and risk getting zero to get a higher return later.

This is actually a bad time to be trading vets in general so on many of them you may need to hold until after the rookie draft.

When drafting obviously take BPA with every pick. You won't be competing anyway so if that means Colt McCoy is your starting QB so be it. You need to take who you think the best player is with each pick.

Try to take advantage of selling 2012 picks for 2013 upgrades whenever possible during the draft. You can find teams that really want a guy when your picks come up in early round 2. Don't be afraid to sell some of them off for 2013 first round picks for that team who wants a certain guy at 2.02.

[ghostguy123]

I wouldn't be moving multiple top picks in that format unless I am getting ridiculous value. Roster spots are also valuable because guys come off waivers that can develop into something every year. Get your studs at the top of the draft. Baldwin fits the bill for what you should be looking for as WR have long shelf lives

Correct. If the deal isnt right, you dont take it. So take Blackmon at 2. Now, if for some reason Richardson falls to pick 2, I would deal it for sure since the RB shelf life is much less, and he may suck by the time you can compete, haha. People will give 3-4 1sts for him for sure. I would take no less than three 1sts for Blackmon also. Like a mid 1st and late 1st this year, and future 1st.

The idea reall is to load up on as many future picks as you can.

If you can manage to end up with like 7 1sts next year and NOTHING in the first this year, I think you will have Succeeded.

What you need is a team or teams that currently have multiple 2013 1sts, and make deals to get both of their picks, plus whatever picks you can this year.

Then during this draft if you have a few late 1sts, try to deal them for 2nds this year and future 1sts.

The thing is to not only get a lot of 1st round picks, but to push as many of them as you can into the future. Spend this entire year getting as many waiver guys as you can, and then next year start drafting, while at the same time also making deals for more future 1sts. If you can lump a bunch of 1st round picks into a 2 year stretch, you can really see some progress and build a team that will last a while, not to mention those guys will all still be like 23-24 years old in like 2014-2015 when you can actually have realistic chance to contend for a playoff spot

[Gamma1210]

I think I would deal the 1.02 during the draft. Rookie hype will pick up and someone will want Blackmon. I think I would hold the 1.03 and draft Luck if you believe in his talent. If he starts hitting his stride in 2013-14 then you have a centerpiece for your team for the next 10 years.

[tommy300]

This team is terrible, for me I would wants to start putting pieces in place right from the start. If trading is an issue with the people in the league, don't sell your picks short of the value you should be getting. With 1.2 and 1.3 I would take Luck and Blackmon, my guess is you are still on track for the 1.1 next year. Draft other high upside rookies, and even lottery ticket types with the later picks. Hit the waiver-wire and try to trade pieces to contenders during the season.

Do what you think is best and have fun with the re-build

[zed2283]

Yeah, I'm not sure why everyone is so keen on getting rid of picks 1.02 and 1.03. I know all leagues are different but I just can't see getting the value that's worth a top player in this draft, especially if you like a guy like Luck. By all means take him at one of the spots, and maybe even Richardson could fall. Since you don't like Blackmon, you can then trade 1.03 if there's nothing you like sitting there.

Or see if you can package 1.02 and 1.07 to get 1.01 and take Richardson and then Luck or RG3.

[yankdog]

Yeah, I'm not sure why everyone is so keen on getting rid of picks 1.02 and 1.03. I know all leagues are different but I just can't see getting the value that's worth a top player in this draft, especially if you like a guy like Luck. By all means take him at one of the spots, and maybe even Richardson could fall. Since you don't like Blackmon, you can then trade 1.03 if there's nothing you like sitting there.

Or see if you can package 1.02 and 1.07 to get 1.01 and take Richardson and then Luck or RG3.

Thanks. But to be clear, it isn't that I don't like Blackmon, but I don't think he is markedly better than a couple other WRs to justify keeping the 1.2 or 1.3 without trading back. But generally speaking, this is a tough dilemma on trading back or drafting quality now. I knew this would be the tough decision to make.

Oy...

[zed2283]

Yeah, I'm not sure why everyone is so keen on getting rid of picks 1.02 and 1.03. I know all leagues are different but I just can't see getting the value that's worth a top player in this draft, especially if you like a guy like Luck. By all means take him at one of the spots, and maybe even Richardson could fall. Since you don't like Blackmon, you can then trade 1.03 if there's nothing you like sitting there.

Or see if you can package 1.02 and 1.07 to get 1.01 and take Richardson and then Luck or RG3.

Thanks. But to be clear, it isn't that I don't like Blackmon, but I don't think he is markedly better than a couple other WRs to justify keeping the 1.2 or 1.3 without trading back. But generally speaking, this is a tough dilemma on trading back or drafting quality now. I knew this would be the tough decision to make.

Oy...

Ok, I gotcha. So you could conceivably trade back and maybe still pick up someone like Floyd. Well then I would do something like that if you can, but if you're a "believer" in someone towards the top, I would go ahead and take them.

[JohnnyU]

I would pour gasonline on this team and light it.....jk. Try to trade your remaining old guys for young players and / or picks and use your current picks to rebuild. Try to get 2013 and 2014 1st and 2nd rd picks as well, because you're not going to rebuild this team in one or two years. Do your homework, because if you screw up these draft choices, you're in real trouble with this team. You can rebuild this team, but you must hit on most of your picks. You should be reading everything you can about 2012 RBs, WRs, QBs, and TEs prospects. Watch more highlights than you have ever before. Read what the experts are saying and those experts are not the general FBG poster (me included).

[DexterDew]

i think we can all agree that there is more than one way to skin a cat, so it depends on your DNA

personally, i trade anyone who might have a value sans Hankerson and maybe Benn

i would trade the 1.02 if i knew they were going to take Blackmon (should fetch minimum of 2 1sts and 2 2nds), and keep Luck at 1.03 unless blown away by a trade or if you hope to get RG3 at 1.07... could go WR like Wright/Floyd there but honestly, you could get some good WR prospects with the 2.01 and 2.02, so trading the 1.07 makes sense if you get a good deal.

to maximize the value, i would suggest laying the ground work before the rookie draft with potential trade partners and being very active during the rookie draft. Right now the 1.07 may not fetch much, but seeing who "falls" may entice another owner. Personally, I would rather draft Floyd/Wright/RG3 than to get a 2nd in 2012 and a future 1st, but would likely move for two 1sts.

[Shutout]

Interestign scenario. I, like you, have taken some pride in rebuilding clunkers.
I am a little surprised at the general consensus advice of trading to future picks and stockpiling picks. I can't agree with that at all because, like the real NFL draft, all drafts are not created equal.

As an example, I would rather have one first round draft pick at my disposal in the year that Larry Fitz comes out than three in the year that Ronnie Brown, Caddy Williams, and Tatum Bell come out.

In short, I think your answer is that, to rebuild your team and do it at quckly as possible, this becomes a step-by-step scenario. In my rebuild projects, I call these cornerstone builds. I identify (hopefully correctly) the players I believe are the long term cornerstone players that I am able to draft...the guys that I am going to select and then not worry about that position for a LONG time, and I draft them and forget about that need and move on to the next.

So, 2 first rounders to me in 2013 vs. one this year means nothing to me until I have identified what is available. If I truly believe that Andrew Luck is a franchise FF QB for me and he can be a top 5-10 QB in FF, then I take him and move on to the next thing.

In fact, I may do the opposite in some cases. In my own rebuild project several years ago, I took a look at the rookies, decided I liked the proven history of a few players already in the league and traded my first three round picks for Fitz. And I couldn't be happier. Point being, sometimes the bird in the hand is worth more than the two in the bush.


More specifically, I would do this process at every step. I would look at what was there every time my pick came up and I would use the pick if I was sold on the player and trade down and pick up pieces until I was at a spot where I DID like what was available, creating value along the way in what I was picking up.

If that led to trading for futures, great, but experience has shown me that when the bullets are flying in the draft, you can usually maximize immediate trading wothout trading for futures unless you really want to.

I would hold the vets that you said you may not be getting bites on like Manning and Law Firm. Yes its a bit risky but no reason to give them away. Hold them and then when some dude is in the midst of a playoff push (and when future draft picks are not perceived as being as valuable), trade them for picks so that guy can make his run. In short, a little patience.

I agree with the people recommending not taking Richardson if you can trade. Nothing sucks more than having ONE GREAT player on your team whose value dies right when the rest of your team comes up. RBs are too short-term and too volitaile to consider cornerstones. Their are exceptions of course, but your playing against the house on that gamble.

[loose circuits]

I would hold the vets that you said you may not be getting bites on like Manning and Law Firm. Yes its a bit risky but no reason to give them away. Hold them and then when some dude is in the midst of a playoff push (and when future draft picks are not perceived as being as valuable), trade them for picks so that guy can make his run. In short, a little patience.

this is great advice, but the problem is they aren't getting any younger...

[ghostguy123]

Interestign scenario. I, like you, have taken some pride in rebuilding clunkers.
I am a little surprised at the general consensus advice of trading to future picks and stockpiling picks. I can't agree with that at all because, like the real NFL draft, all drafts are not created equal.

As an example, I would rather have one first round draft pick at my disposal in the year that Larry Fitz comes out than three in the year that Ronnie Brown, Caddy Williams, and Tatum Bell come out.

In short, I think your answer is that, to rebuild your team and do it at quckly as possible, this becomes a step-by-step scenario. In my rebuild projects, I call these cornerstone builds. I identify (hopefully correctly) the players I believe are the long term cornerstone players that I am able to draft...the guys that I am going to select and then not worry about that position for a LONG time, and I draft them and forget about that need and move on to the next.

So, 2 first rounders to me in 2013 vs. one this year means nothing to me until I have identified what is available. If I truly believe that Andrew Luck is a franchise FF QB for me and he can be a top 5-10 QB in FF, then I take him and move on to the next thing.

In fact, I may do the opposite in some cases. In my own rebuild project several years ago, I took a look at the rookies, decided I liked the proven history of a few players already in the league and traded my first three round picks for Fitz. And I couldn't be happier. Point being, sometimes the bird in the hand is worth more than the two in the bush.


More specifically, I would do this process at every step. I would look at what was there every time my pick came up and I would use the pick if I was sold on the player and trade down and pick up pieces until I was at a spot where I DID like what was available, creating value along the way in what I was picking up.

If that led to trading for futures, great, but experience has shown me that when the bullets are flying in the draft, you can usually maximize immediate trading wothout trading for futures unless you really want to.

I would hold the vets that you said you may not be getting bites on like Manning and Law Firm. Yes its a bit risky but no reason to give them away. Hold them and then when some dude is in the midst of a playoff push (and when future draft picks are not perceived as being as valuable), trade them for picks so that guy can make his run. In short, a little patience.

I agree with the people recommending not taking Richardson if you can trade. Nothing sucks more than having ONE GREAT player on your team whose value dies right when the rest of your team comes up. RBs are too short-term and too volitaile to consider cornerstones. Their are exceptions of course, but your playing against the house on that gamble.

If he trades for a bunch of future 1sts, but doesnt particularly like the draft next year, he can just do the same thing and get a bunch of 2014 1sts. It is gonna take him a while anyway.

Also, you say you prefer that high 1st the year Fitzy comes out as opposed to the years where the draft isnt that great in the 1st. Well, using the #2 pick this year, I prefer to use that pick to get several 1sts and try to move them around till there is a year where there is another draft like AP, Calvin, Bowe type of draft, or the draft where CK2K came out a few years ago and there were several top players in that 1st round.

Right now he needs quantity over quality, and since you can always acquire more total "value" if you get future picks included, that extra value will eventually turn into quality also.

I think you can realistically compete in 2015 if you had literally no roster right now and just the rookie picks you have.

Deal pick 2, get a three total 1sts and some 2nds out of it. Deal down, get as many 1sts and 2nds as you can in 2012, 2013, 2014. You should end up with 2 or 3 late 1sts given your current picks, and go into next year with about 5 1st rounders and extra 2nds. Same in 2014. By then I think that, along with some waiver moves, you can compete.

[yankdog]

Tremendous advice-more than I expected. Really helpful, especially the discussion about when to trade back picks both within the same draft year and between years. I think the practical issue now is finding teams interested in Benn, Tate and others. Not having much success unless I go into 3rd round picks and I'm not sure who will be around this year in the third round will be any better than Benn or Tate so they may just be a hold. The other WRs, no interest whatsoever. But with the picks I have currently I'll have good options later in the year to deal. And the challenge is in hitting the wire as almost all of you have said...but that's with any league.

Great advice fellas.

I'd love to see an ongoing thread on people tracking their particular rags to riches project franchises like this.

[ghostguy123]

Don't deal your current players for picks this year, deal them for picks next year. You may be able to get 2nds instead of 3rds.
Not only will that give you better value picks next year, it will give you more roster spots to try and add waiver gems this season before you really start cashing in on your picks next year.

Hell, maybe just keep this particular thread going, and post all the potential offers you give or get.

Edited by ghostguy123, 23 February 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Bunky]

wow...what does the team with pick 1.01 look like?