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#101 werdnoynek

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:13 PM



fwiw

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Alshon Jeffery timed in 4.4-4.5 range at Pro Day

Posted by Evan Silva on March 28, 2012, 11:51 AM EDT

AP
South Carolina wide receiver Alshon Jeffery caught some criticism when he opted out of all testing at last month’s Scouting Combine. Jeffery didn’t even go through on-field drills. He only weighed in.

Jeffery participated in the Gamecocks’ Pro Day on Wednesday, however, and may have helped his draft stock. Scouts on hand timed his forty-yard dash in the high-4.4 to low-4.5 range, according to Kevin Weidl of ESPN Scouts Inc. SI.com’s Tony Pauline had Jeffery at 4.55 on his first run. Jeffery also weighed in at 213, down three pounds from his Combine weigh-in.

He’s clearly prioritized losing weight during the offseason.

Per the Gamecocks’ sports website, Jeffery registered a 10-foot, 2-inch broad jump and 36.5-inch vertical leap. They’re both solid if unspectacular measurements for a 6-foot-3, 213-pound receiver.

The impressive workout may force NFL evaluators to go back and watch Jeffery’s game tape. What they’ll find, according to NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock, is that Jeffery does not create separation from defensive backs downfield and isn’t worth a first-round pick.

the last paragraph is pretty contradictory when looking at mayock's top 5 WR's - he's got stephen hill at #4 and jeffery at #5 (as of 03/20 here). with today's performance jeffery runs around a 4.4 - a 1/10 of a second off of hill and his other measurements, while not as great as hills, are still in the same ballpark. hill wasn't on his board at all before the combine... probably because the tape on hill is actually lacking and is quite bad overall - hill doesn't look like he knows what he's doing on the field and he looks a hell of a lot slower than a 4.3 guy. yet we criticize jeffery's tape where in 2010 he looked like the next don mega. in 2011, he certainly regressed a bit, but imo had a lot more to do with poor QB play and the loss of the running game than jeffery's efforts. he's being double teamed on every passing down and the QB rarely put the ball where it needed to be. plus he was playing at 230+ in 2011... if he keeps his work ethic and determination up why can't he get back to 2010 form?

i just don't get it... where's the consistency in scouting here? i think it all comes back to the fat picture making people think jeffery is lazy and slow, while everything i've seen from him lately shows the exact opposite.

I'm not quite as down on Jeffery as some in this thread are, but your logic doesn't make sense to me. You seem to be the one that is overreacting in a weird way to "the fat photo" if you think that is the only reason why people were down on Alshon.

There is one fact that you seem to be ignoring or glossing over. Which is simply this: the guy had to lose 20 pounds in 2 months after his college season was over to get to his ideal football weight. Is there any other skill position player who had to drop 20 pounds between his bowl game and the combine? Do you really think that 20 pounds he lost was all muscle and good weight?

Here's what I personally see from watching the guy play a good amount the last 2 years. He was a very good player as a sophomore. He never looked fast but he seemed to do enough to get open and even when he wasn't open, he used his size to make catches even when covered. I thought he was a mid-late 1st rounder based on his sophomore year play. My worry with him even then was that he reminded me a bit of guys like USC's Mike Williams and USC's Dwayne Jarrett. Other big guys who used their size to dominate college competition but never got much separation. I also had some concern that Spurrier WRs always seemed to bust because he designed innovative stuff to get them open and made a lot of guys look more talented than they were.

When I watched him this past year, he looked like he was carrying bad weight and I thought he was a step slower. It had a huge negative impact on his production. In the last 6 games of the regular season, he had an okay game against Citadel (5-81-1 TD). In the other 5 games he had 15 catches, for 106 yards and 2 TDs.

Think about how bad those numbers really are. Not counting the D2 game vs. Citadel, he averaged 3 catches for 21.2 yards per game over the 2nd half of the season. Sure his QBs weren't great, but still....

You seem to be claiming that his 2010 film shows a stud player and it just doesn't in my opinion. It showed a good player that really needed to answer some questions (work ethic, his ability to get separation, speed, etc.) in his junior year to earn a solid 1st round grade. He did the exact opposite of answering those questions and really just added a bunch of negatives on top of the concerns that were already present.

I see a guy who put on a lot of weight (most of it bad weight in my opinion) and played his worst football in his "money year" where motivation shouldn't have been an issue at all. That is a big-time red flag.

It is great that he seems to have really dedicated himself over the past 2 months and that should help his draft stock. But the concerns I just outlined aren't made up or based on some random photo. It's not inconsistent scouting in my opinion in any way, shape or form to say Alshon didn't play like a 1st round WR in 2011.

great post. it's nice to see some depth in answers here. imo, there are other factors on this poor 2011 performance (which i've gone over multiple times), but i do agree he was overweight and his play showed it. when i watch him in 2010 when he was playing closer what he is now he seemed to be unstoppable imo... i feel he can return to that form and i fully expect him to. there are some if's that go along with that but i have faith in the kid. i really appreciate everyone's concern for my faith in him. my over-reaction to the photo is due to majority of the people saying his weight was the reason for his poor play and it just isn't true imo. qb play, loss of the running game, and defenses scheming for him played a much bigger role. thanks for adding some substance to the discussion though.



#102 werdnoynek

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:15 PM

For all the people concerned about his weight. Are you equally concerned that Stephen Hill will never develop as a WR? I'm more concerned with Hill being raw.

agreed. hill's tape is littered with dropped balls, getting dominated by cb's and body catches. i'm sure some of it has to do with the triple option and lack of coaching at the wr position but what people see in him other than his great combine workout is beyond me. he doesn't look the part when you watch him play the game... maybe he can be coached into an NFL receiver but he's far from it now imo.

Love it when people refer to recorded games as "tape". Call them what they are; highlights. It's pretty common on these message boards so I shouldn't let it bother me but let's face it...none of us have access to coach's tape, not even the self proclaimed Twitter "scouts".

i'll remember to call it "game recordings" to prevent further confusion. my apologies. i don't like to watch highlights because they dont show mistakes.

Edited by werdnoynek, 28 March 2012 - 06:17 PM.


#103 werdnoynek

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:21 PM





Nice he realized how important this process is. I am sure he'll be able to keep the weight off in the NFL.

Few million dollars, no guidance from anyone.....yes, I am sure he will.

:rolleyes:

Roll eyes all you want...heard a draft guy talking about this today.
That scouts won't be fooled that he dropped some weight and ran faster...if he ends up putting the weight back on, they know he is slower...and they know he does not do well getting separation off the line.

and what if he doesn't?

Then he plays smaller than he has in a while...and maybe that is not a fit either.
Why do you assume he will keep it off?

i think all the negativity was a wake up call... he found himself plumetting down draft boards and i'm sure it was a scary thought. it's time to grow up now and i think he'll do it. he's never been in trouble with the law - there's never been talk of him being a bad apple or a bad teamate. i think he's ready to be somebody.

#104 Stephen Holloway

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Post above may be confusing Spurrier at Florida to current version. South Carolina passed only 317 times over 13 games and ran the ball 553 times. Over the final eight games of the season, after Garcia the original starting QB was dismissed, they averaged only 22 passes per game. If you subtract Shaw's first game where they demolished Kentucky 54-3, the average was even lower at just under 20 passes per game.
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#105 mlball77

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

I don't claim to be a college expert, so I can't delve too deeply into Jefferey's play the last year or so. That said; based on the way a lot of people were talking about him a couple of years ago, it seems to me that his upside potential is quite high. Sure, he has some warts, but he only came in at 1.12 in the post combine rookie rankings Jeter23 conducted at these forums. Toward the end of rd 1 in rookie drafts, I accept the fact most players will either have some warts or be limited in what they can do. Personally, I think a strong case can often be made for a player with some warts if they have a high upside. -This is sort of where I see Jefferey right now. Particularly if he lands in a mediocre or better situation, I'd be thrilled to land him at 1.12 in a rookie draft. Weight and work ethic are flags, but it is promising that he is working on things at this point.

Edited by mlball77, 28 March 2012 - 06:40 PM.


#106 ZWK

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

The optimistic comparison is Dwayne Bowe. Bowe was similarly a big WR without elite speed who made impressive catches downfield (6'2, 221 lb., 4.51 40, 15.6 ypr for Bowe; 6'3", 216 lb., 4.5ish 40, 16.6 ypr for Jeffery). Bowe had some issues with work ethic (although not as serious as Jeffery's, and I don't remember if it was an issue before the draft or just in KC), but he's gotten his act together. We don't know if Jeffery will put in the work he needs to, which is a major question mark, but it's definitely a possibility and I think he has Dwayne Bowe upside if he can do it.

#107 cstu

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:06 PM







For all the people concerned about his weight. Are you equally concerned that Stephen Hill will never develop as a WR? I'm more concerned with Hill being raw.

agreed. hill's tape is littered with dropped balls, getting dominated by cb's and body catches. i'm sure some of it has to do with the triple option and lack of coaching at the wr position but what people see in him other than his great combine workout is beyond me. he doesn't look the part when you watch him play the game... maybe he can be coached into an NFL receiver but he's far from it now imo.

Which tape is it of Hill's that either of you have watched? I've looked for it and haven't found much of anything other than a few random highlights.

if you're into torrents you can find alot of 2011 GTech games using google. the pirate bay has quite a few. it's illegal obviously... but a great place to download / watch games.

looking for hill highlights you wont find much... because there isn't much - he didn't do much worth highlighting. you'll have to watch full games... and you see very little of him there too.

I watched several of his games live and he has some huge drops with nobody around him.


I don't see this as all that bad a thing. It's good to know he gets open.
From what we saw at the combine in positional drills, he appears to be a pretty natural catcher. Perhaps there is a concentration issue?

I personally think many of his big plays are due to offensive scheme. DB's get lulled to sleep due to run run run run run run play action pass.

Tell that to the Tebow vs. Sanchez thread.

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#108 Biabreakable

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:15 PM

There has been quite a bit of speculation that the Vikings might consider Jefferey with their pick in the 2nd round if he is available. Based on his pro day 40 time I don't expect him to fall out of the 1st round, so he likely will not be a Viking. These speculations have drawn comparisons between Jefferey and Sidney Rice, mainly to suggest that Jefferey could bring to the Vikings what Rice did when he was healthy. For those who have watched him, do you think that is a fair comparison? Is Jefferey better than Rice who was a 2nd round pick?
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#109 sho nuff

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:28 PM






Nice he realized how important this process is. I am sure he'll be able to keep the weight off in the NFL.

Few million dollars, no guidance from anyone.....yes, I am sure he will.

:rolleyes:

Roll eyes all you want...heard a draft guy talking about this today.
That scouts won't be fooled that he dropped some weight and ran faster...if he ends up putting the weight back on, they know he is slower...and they know he does not do well getting separation off the line.

and what if he doesn't?

Then he plays smaller than he has in a while...and maybe that is not a fit either.
Why do you assume he will keep it off?

i think all the negativity was a wake up call... he found himself plumetting down draft boards and i'm sure it was a scary thought. it's time to grow up now and i think he'll do it. he's never been in trouble with the law - there's never been talk of him being a bad apple or a bad teamate. i think he's ready to be somebody.

So you really have no real reason to believe it anymore than those of us who believe it may not last...thanks.

#110 massraider

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:34 PM

For all the people concerned about his weight. Are you equally concerned that Stephen Hill will never develop as a WR? I'm more concerned with Hill being raw.

agreed. hill's tape is littered with dropped balls, getting dominated by cb's and body catches. i'm sure some of it has to do with the triple option and lack of coaching at the wr position but what people see in him other than his great combine workout is beyond me. he doesn't look the part when you watch him play the game... maybe he can be coached into an NFL receiver but he's far from it now imo.

Love it when people refer to recorded games as "tape". Call them what they are; highlights. It's pretty common on these message boards so I shouldn't let it bother me but let's face it...none of us have access to coach's tape, not even the self proclaimed Twitter "scouts".

Great post. I always wonder when people prattle on about defensive backs. When did they scout a cornerback?

#111 werdnoynek

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:41 AM




For all the people concerned about his weight. Are you equally concerned that Stephen Hill will never develop as a WR? I'm more concerned with Hill being raw.

agreed. hill's tape is littered with dropped balls, getting dominated by cb's and body catches. i'm sure some of it has to do with the triple option and lack of coaching at the wr position but what people see in him other than his great combine workout is beyond me. he doesn't look the part when you watch him play the game... maybe he can be coached into an NFL receiver but he's far from it now imo.

Love it when people refer to recorded games as "tape". Call them what they are; highlights. It's pretty common on these message boards so I shouldn't let it bother me but let's face it...none of us have access to coach's tape, not even the self proclaimed Twitter "scouts".

Great post. I always wonder when people prattle on about defensive backs. When did they scout a cornerback?

precisely... did they look at "game recordings" or "tape"? god i love innuendos. especially the football variety.

i'm curious do you have to actually be present to scout someone?

#112 benson_will_lead_the_way

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:23 AM








For all the people concerned about his weight. Are you equally concerned that Stephen Hill will never develop as a WR? I'm more concerned with Hill being raw.

agreed. hill's tape is littered with dropped balls, getting dominated by cb's and body catches. i'm sure some of it has to do with the triple option and lack of coaching at the wr position but what people see in him other than his great combine workout is beyond me. he doesn't look the part when you watch him play the game... maybe he can be coached into an NFL receiver but he's far from it now imo.

Which tape is it of Hill's that either of you have watched? I've looked for it and haven't found much of anything other than a few random highlights.

if you're into torrents you can find alot of 2011 GTech games using google. the pirate bay has quite a few. it's illegal obviously... but a great place to download / watch games.

looking for hill highlights you wont find much... because there isn't much - he didn't do much worth highlighting. you'll have to watch full games... and you see very little of him there too.

I watched several of his games live and he has some huge drops with nobody around him.


I don't see this as all that bad a thing. It's good to know he gets open.
From what we saw at the combine in positional drills, he appears to be a pretty natural catcher. Perhaps there is a concentration issue?

I personally think many of his big plays are due to offensive scheme. DB's get lulled to sleep due to run run run run run run play action pass.

Tell that to the Tebow vs. Sanchez thread.

I try to stay away from those Tebow threads...people don't think clear in them.
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#113 cstu

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:18 AM

Wait...Hill has tape?

at no no point in history has the outline of asses and ######s been more readily available.


#114 MAC_32

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:28 AM

I'm just as concerned with Jeffrey as I am Hill. Randle too for that matter. Guys that have production issues in college are always a huge risk at the top of the draft. I was more comfortable with Demaryius than Hill because Thomas didn't have 'head issues' that I was aware of. Randle and Jeffrey are different animals. Jeffrey had lousy QB play this season, but he also had defenders draping all over him all season too. If he can't get open then his lousy QB can't get him the ball. It's only going to get harder. Randle looks the part, but is just so inconsistent game-to-game and in-game. As a role WR, he's a'ight, but not in the top 50 of the draft.

#115 jurb26

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

I'm just as concerned with Jeffrey as I am Hill. Randle too for that matter. Guys that have production issues in college are always a huge risk at the top of the draft. I was more comfortable with Demaryius than Hill because Thomas didn't have 'head issues' that I was aware of. Randle and Jeffrey are different animals. Jeffrey had lousy QB play this season, but he also had defenders draping all over him all season too. If he can't get open then his lousy QB can't get him the ball. It's only going to get harder. Randle looks the part, but is just so inconsistent game-to-game and in-game. As a role WR, he's a'ight, but not in the top 50 of the draft.

There's no statement about college talent that is more false than this IMO. College production is the most overrated attribute used by the masses when evaluating players.

#116 Concept Coop

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:25 AM

There has been quite a bit of speculation that the Vikings might consider Jefferey with their pick in the 2nd round if he is available. Based on his pro day 40 time I don't expect him to fall out of the 1st round, so he likely will not be a Viking. These speculations have drawn comparisons between Jefferey and Sidney Rice, mainly to suggest that Jefferey could bring to the Vikings what Rice did when he was healthy. For those who have watched him, do you think that is a fair comparison? Is Jefferey better than Rice who was a 2nd round pick?

Aside from where they went to school, I see very little in common. Rice can take the top off of a defense.

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#117 MAC_32

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:41 AM


I'm just as concerned with Jeffrey as I am Hill. Randle too for that matter. Guys that have production issues in college are always a huge risk at the top of the draft. I was more comfortable with Demaryius than Hill because Thomas didn't have 'head issues' that I was aware of. Randle and Jeffrey are different animals. Jeffrey had lousy QB play this season, but he also had defenders draping all over him all season too. If he can't get open then his lousy QB can't get him the ball. It's only going to get harder. Randle looks the part, but is just so inconsistent game-to-game and in-game. As a role WR, he's a'ight, but not in the top 50 of the draft.

There's no statement about college talent that is more false than this IMO. College production is the most overrated attribute used by the masses when evaluating players.

When it comes to good college production? I whole heartedly agree. When it comes to poor production relatively speaking? Yea, that's meaningful. If you don't produce in college why will that change in the NFL? A big question these types have to answer and most can't answer it well. How many NFL starters produced poorly in school (non injury related) and have turned it on at the next level?

#118 Punch

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:30 PM





For all the people concerned about his weight. Are you equally concerned that Stephen Hill will never develop as a WR? I'm more concerned with Hill being raw.

agreed. hill's tape is littered with dropped balls, getting dominated by cb's and body catches. i'm sure some of it has to do with the triple option and lack of coaching at the wr position but what people see in him other than his great combine workout is beyond me. he doesn't look the part when you watch him play the game... maybe he can be coached into an NFL receiver but he's far from it now imo.

Love it when people refer to recorded games as "tape". Call them what they are; highlights. It's pretty common on these message boards so I shouldn't let it bother me but let's face it...none of us have access to coach's tape, not even the self proclaimed Twitter "scouts".

Great post. I always wonder when people prattle on about defensive backs. When did they scout a cornerback?

precisely... did they look at "game recordings" or "tape"? god i love innuendos. especially the football variety.

i'm curious do you have to actually be present to scout someone?

Sorry man...Don't want to hijack your thread. I will accept that the misuse of the words "tape", "film", and "scouted" have become an epidemic on message boards in the FF community. :P I suppose it's easier than saying "recorded game".

I am enjoying this thread though and I, like a previous poster, am afraid that he will be Big Mike Williams part deux. I won't be using a first round pick on him in any of my leagues. Maybe I'll miss out but I'll be right more often than not by avoiding players with red flags.

#119 werdnoynek

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:26 PM

some video from his pro day... http://www.nfl.com/v...irst-round-pick and nice discussion after. a weight clause would be a great idea for him... he looked great in the drills and if he can keep himself where he is now physically... :eek:

Edited by werdnoynek, 29 March 2012 - 06:29 PM.


#120 Slapdash

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:34 AM

As someone who has watched every South Carolina game Alshon has played in, here are my homer thoughts: People were talking him up a year ago because he was putting up good numbers and consistently making big plays. That was a lot less true his junior season. This past season he didn't have anybody to get him the ball. Once Carolina switched to Shaw at QB and lost their playmaker in Lattimore, Alshon constantly was bracketed. You have to consider though that the QB (both Garcia and Shaw)rarely would stay in the pocket long enough to look down field where Alshon was running routes, particularly at the beginning. Still it is a valid criticism that he had difficulty getting open in that situation. The elite guys have to prove it and it is troubling that Alshon couldn't overcome this before the bowl game. His hands are very good, particularly on fade routes around the endzone. I don't know where the comments on him dropping a lot of wide open balls is from, that is not something I recall. I think he should slip a bit in the draft with all of the question marks. I think this is good for him; he doesn't need to be in a situation where the pressure is on him to produce day one. I think the perception of him having a big decrease in production mainly due to his play or effort is not an accurate one. A lot of upside though.

Edited by Slapdash, 30 March 2012 - 04:37 AM.


#121 cstu

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:02 AM

Once Carolina switched to Shaw at QB and lost their playmaker in Lattimore, Alshon constantly was bracketed.

By cheeseburgers?

at no no point in history has the outline of asses and ######s been more readily available.


#122 Wadsworth

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:05 AM

Once Carolina switched to Shaw at QB and lost their playmaker in Lattimore, Alshon constantly was bracketed.

By cheeseburgers?

:lmao:
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#123 wiscstlatlmia

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:37 PM


Once Carolina switched to Shaw at QB and lost their playmaker in Lattimore, Alshon constantly was bracketed.

By cheeseburgers?

:lmao:

touche....touche... :lmao:

Edited by wiscstlatlmia, 30 March 2012 - 02:37 PM.


#124 FunkyPlutos

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:40 PM

Count me as one (maybe the only one) that thinks he will be a good WR on the next level...I wouldn't mind at all if the Vikings would take him with their 2nd round pick.

#125 Faust

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:28 PM

From twitter: @gregcosell

SC Jeffery. Strengths: Size, physicality, strong hands w/wide cathcing radius. Weaknesses: Minus lateral quicks, slow in-and-out of breaks.



#126 Wadsworth

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:18 PM

From twitter:


@gregcosell


SC Jeffery. Strengths: Size, physicality, strong hands w/wide cathcing radius. Weaknesses: Minus lateral quicks, slow in-and-out of breaks.

Alshon wins an amazing percentage of 50/50 balls. But if you throw to him frequently, an amazing number of those balls will be 50/50 balls.

Edited by Wadsworth, 03 April 2012 - 06:18 PM.

"I will say unequivocally that (Gabbert) will not make it in this league as a starting NFL quarterback." -Greg Cosell

"I readily admit my mistake(on Gabbert). Now the Jags need to do the same. The longer they play him, they run the risk of losing the team." -Michael Lombardi




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