61 replies to this topic

[badmojo1006]

What a surprise...Restrictions on Sex Ed and Birth Control leads to Teen pregnancy

[Flying V]

Dang! That's one heck of a long pregnancy!

[Chadstroma]

You conclusion is not direct cause and effect with just this data. You need to have data on things like rates of sexual activity, rates of abortion versus population, personal and public attitudes on abortion, etc. It very well can contribute but it is also more likely not the driving factor.

But why would you want to do all of that if you have a preconceived notion?

[roadkill1292]

Nationwide, the numbers keep falling, which is a good thing. We still have rates twice as high as some of the European nations which have fairly more liberal social systems and our minority rates are still far too high but overall steady progress is being made.

The story I linked to mentions MTV shows like "Teen Mom" and "16 and Pregnant," which I once criticized for glamorizing teen pregnancy but which may in fact have helped to publicize how difficult things become for the youthful mom. It appears to be unclear what, if any, of the major factors is the primary driving force behind the decline.

Edited by roadkill1292, 10 April 2012 - 05:41 AM.

[MaxThreshold]

What a surprise...Restrictions on Sex Ed and Birth Control leads to Teen pregnancy

Maybe I'm missing something. Where does it say that restrictions on Sex Ed and Birth Control leads to higher teen pregnancy? The report says:

"Experts think the economy is a factor" and then also imply the drops to "...a recent government survey showed more use of contraception by teens."

Maybe "more" means "restriction" to you? Not only that, it says that ALL states saw a decline in teen pregnancy:

"Even as it leads the nation with 55 teen births per 1,000 girls, Mississippi's rate has been falling like everywhere else. It dropped 21 percent over three years."

I think you're swinging and missing trying to imply this has anything to do with restrictions on Sex Ed and Birth Control.

Edited by MaxThreshold, 10 April 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[Charlie Frown]

Not much to do there but **** I guess.

Maybe they should being less 'but' and more 'butt'?

[SacramentoBob]

At least we know where Homer's been hanging out.

[Sand]

You conclusion is not direct cause and effect with just this data. You need to have data on things like rates of sexual activity, rates of abortion versus population, personal and public attitudes on abortion, etc. It very well can contribute but it is also more likely not the driving factor.

But why would you want to do all of that if you have a preconceived notion?

The driving factor, along with many of these social ills, rides on the general economic well being of the populace. The higher the poverty rate the higher the teen pregnancy rate. One can go round and round about why that is, but there are certainly societal issues inside those populations - broken homes, tendency to undervalue education, etc. While technically access to birth control isn't an issue (you can walk into any county facility and get on the pill) it is likely still a practical impediment.

In fact, if you look at the poverty rate, the top 12 pregnancy states are the exact same 12 poorest states. I'm sure if you looked at DC it would be right up there, as well.

[VA703]

Not the Roley! Santa Claus: Now it's a Stoley. Gimme the watch! Looking like a Mississippi pimp. ***** better have my sweet potatoes. Ho, ho, ho, ************!

[Clifford]

The richer get richer and the poor get pregnant.

Same as it ever was...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Mississippi probably has the highest concentration of those who consider themselves "religious Christians," tea party supporters and those who oppose birth control.

I do not think kids in New Hampshire or Massachusetts have less sex I think they just have better access to birth control and more open minded policies toward sex education.

[Joe Summer]

Nationwide, the numbers keep falling, which is a good thing. We still have rates twice as high as some of the European nations which have fairly more liberal social systems and our minority rates are still far too high but overall steady progress is being made.

The story I linked to mentions MTV shows like "Teen Mom" and "16 and Pregnant," which I once criticized for glamorizing teen pregnancy but which may in fact have helped to publicize how difficult things become for the youthful mom. It appears to be unclear what, if any, of the major factors is the primary driving force behind the decline.

Smart girls see "16 And Pregnant" and realize how difficult it is to be a teen mom.

Dumb girls see "16 And Pregnant" and realize how cool it is to be a teen mom.

[Clifford]

Or they can afford abortions when needed...

I think that the culture in the deep south makes having sex, using birth control, and of course terminating unwanted pregnancies (or killing babies if that's how you prefer to look at it) a harder thing to admit to. Also, with dramatically lower job prospects, and the fact that very few of those that grow up in Mississippi ever leave Mississippi, there is less reason to wait on pregnancy, as there is very little these kids can look at as great opportunities they would miss if they had the baby.

The kids in New Hampshire don't have less sex, but if they do and they get pregnant their parents will drive them to the abortion clinic and pay for it. In Mississippi a more likely reaction from the parents is getting kicked out of the home.

[Doctor Detroit]

Congrats?

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Or they can afford abortions when needed...

I think that the culture in the deep south makes having sex, using birth control, and of course terminating unwanted pregnancies (or killing babies if that's how you prefer to look at it) a harder thing to admit to. Also, with dramatically lower job prospects, and the fact that very few of those that grow up in Mississippi ever leave Mississippi, there is less reason to wait on pregnancy, as there is very little these kids can look at as great opportunities they would miss if they had the baby.

The kids in New Hampshire don't have less sex, but if they do and they get pregnant their parents will drive them to the abortion clinic and pay for it. they take contraceptives. In Mississippi a more likely reaction from the parents is getting kicked out of the home.

Fixed.

[Clifford]

You don't think teens in the deep south use contraceptives?

Edited by Clifford, 10 April 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

You don't think teens in the deep south use contraceptives?

The availability of contraceptives and education about their use. Mississippi is also #2 in the nation in Gonorrhea Rate and 4th in Chlamydia Rate.

There might also be a social stigma attached to using contraceptives in ultra religious small town Mississippi.

[Osaurus]

You don't think teens in the deep south use contraceptives?

My link

[Clifford]

Agree with you on stigma but not necessarily about that being closely correlated to use or availability. CVS carries condoms everywhere.

In very small towns where the CVS clerk goes to your church and knows your parents the stigma could have a greater effect. But kids still drink and smoke and there are plenty of people in small towns opposed to that.

This is about poverty and always has been, since before contraceptives existed.

[Dr. Gobbler]

Don't worry you can't get pregnant, we're related.

[Sand]

Mississippi probably has the highest concentration of those who consider themselves "religious Christians," tea party supporters and those who oppose birth control.

I do not think kids in New Hampshire or Massachusetts have less sex I think they just have better access to birth control and more open minded policies toward sex education.

I love how the bull#### stereotypes roll right out. No one opposes birth control but the Catholic Church (and lets face it, Catholics themselves largely use birth control). MS is largely protestant. The issue lies not with religion but with the cycle of poverty. Broken homes beget broken homes.

[Clifford]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Mississippi probably has the highest concentration of those who consider themselves "religious Christians," tea party supporters and those who oppose birth control.

I do not think kids in New Hampshire or Massachusetts have less sex I think they just have better access to birth control and more open minded policies toward sex education.

I love how the bull#### stereotypes roll right out. No one opposes birth control but the Catholic Church (and lets face it, Catholics themselves largely use birth control). MS is largely protestant. The issue lies not with religion but with the cycle of poverty. Broken homes beget broken homes.

I freaking love it when Religious Christians oppose premarital sex and believe that sex education in schools somehow promote premarital sex.

I love it how Mississippi leads the nation in chlamydia and gonorrhea cases, while coming in fifth in cases of syphilis and sixth in reported cases of HIV, according to the Mississippi Department of Health.

I love it that Mississippi is the most religious state according to a recent Gallup Poll(Link), but when confronted with the consequences of their religious beliefs in keeping sex education out of schools they always try to point the finger elsewhere.

Many Mississippi school teach abstinence-only curriculum , even when the study have shows again and again
that this simply does not work.

So why do the demographers at Auburn University say abstinence-only education doesn't work? The answer is two-fold. On one hand, federally funded studies have found abstinence-only education doesn't change behaviors. In 2007, Christopher Trenholm, a Princeton University professor and expert in risk reduction programs for youth, studied four school-based abstinence-only sex education programs in Florida, Mississippi, Virginia and Wisconsin. Trenholm found students who received abstinence-only instruction were "no more likely than students in the control groups to abstain from or delay sexual intercourse, nor were they more likely to have fewer sexual partners," according to the Auburn report.

Secondly, scholars have found factual errors in abstinence-only sex education curricula that could "harm women and girls." For example, one middle school program distributed curricula that told students "the actual ability of condoms to prevent the transmission of HIV/AIDS even if the product is in tact is not definitively known." However, the report points out that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has found that latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing the transmission of HIV. Another misconception the report cites warned students that abortion could lead to infertility. But according to the report, "the truth is an elective abortion does not alter fertility."

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

I live in Birmingham, AL and can say that the opposition to sex education comes from the pulpit.

[ODoyleRules]

Mississippi probably has the highest concentration of those who consider themselves "religious Christians," tea party supporters and those who oppose birth control.

I do not think kids in New Hampshire or Massachusetts have less sex I think they just have better access to birth control and more open minded policies toward sex education.

I love how the bull#### stereotypes roll right out. No one opposes birth control but the Catholic Church (and lets face it, Catholics themselves largely use birth control). MS is largely protestant. The issue lies not with religion but with the cycle of poverty. Broken homes beget broken homes.

Food for thought

[Clifford]

Another thing a lot of you unfamiliar with the deep south might be missing is there is very little internal desire for improvement in social areas. Really in any areas.

The people that are smart/well educated and have a problem with the way things are move, or become completely disengaged.

The people that are smart/well educated and don't have a problem with the way things are become part of the system, usually through politics/religion, and benefit financially as much or more than the people who move away.

The people that are not smart/well educated stay mainly out of necessity and even if they are opposed to the way things are generally disenfranchised and shouted down easily by the second group.

So the people who care take a smart pill and get out and don't think about it except when they visit at Christmas if they visit at all. So the people who don't care or support the way things are end up running things.

[Clifford]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

I live in Birmingham, AL and can say that the opposition to sex education comes from the pulpit.

Dude, cornhole? I have a free pass from the wife to go get beers any time I want. PM me if interested.

I bet you are right but I never hear anything from a pulpit.

[Marvin]

Just going to put these up here.

Birth rate map

2008 election map

[Sand]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

I also live in Alabama, and have lived here and in Louisiana. I'll disagree. FSM is right on education, but, frankly, the teen birth rate is not terribly high among affluent and middle class youth (and their sex ed sucks, too). It is very high in the poorest communities. FSM is making out like religion is the root cause, and is simply isn't. It, like many other social factors, has an influence, but it certainly isn't the driver. It is all about the flight away from marriage and stable homes among the poor. Something that has been encouraged and incentivized by the paternalistic entitlement society liberal government has created in those communities.

FSM is on the typical "those people are stupid and less than us" snobbery train by pointing the finger at a high church going rate.

[Clifford]

Good to see Bama moving more towards GA and less towards MS.

[Sand]

Good to see Bama moving more towards GA and less towards MS.

We're getting rid of our illegal immigrants.

[Clifford]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

I also live in Alabama, and have lived here and in Louisiana. I'll disagree. FSM is right on education, but, frankly, the teen birth rate is not terribly high among affluent and middle class youth (and their sex ed sucks, too). It is very high in the poorest communities. FSM is making out like religion is the root cause, and is simply isn't. It, like many other social factors, has an influence, but it certainly isn't the driver. It is all about the flight away from marriage and stable homes among the poor. Something that has been encouraged and incentivized by the paternalistic entitlement society liberal government has created in those communities.

FSM is on the typical "those people are stupid and less than us" snobbery train by pointing the finger at a high church going rate.

Agree, though I don't think any one factor can be isolated. Let's remember that the poor having more children than the rich has been a truism for longer than any of the external factors mentioned here have existed.

I mean, we could go into agrarian societies, infant mortality rates, etc

[Clifford]

Good to see Bama moving more towards GA and less towards MS.

We're getting rid of our illegal immigrants.

like Executive VPs for Mercedes and Hyundai?

[Sand]

Good to see Bama moving more towards GA and less towards MS.

We're getting rid of our illegal immigrants.

like Executive VPs for Mercedes and Hyundai?

Especially them.

[Juxtatarot]

Just going to put these up here.

Birth rate map

I didn't know that the teen rate was higher for Hispanics than blacks.

[Sand]

Agree, though I don't think any one factor can be isolated.

No doubt. That's what makes it a tough problem to solve. And yet, like the murder rate in this country, it seems to be coming down of its own volition without any truly definable cause. Religion hasn't changed and it is coming down. We just went through a recession (which would tend to spike these items) and it is coming down.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

I also live in Alabama, and have lived here and in Louisiana. I'll disagree. FSM is right on education, but, frankly, the teen birth rate is not terribly high among affluent and middle class youth (and their sex ed sucks, too). It is very high in the poorest communities. FSM is making out like religion is the root cause, and is simply isn't. It, like many other social factors, has an influence, but it certainly isn't the driver. It is all about the flight away from marriage and stable homes among the poor. Something that has been encouraged and incentivized by the paternalistic entitlement society liberal government has created in those communities.

FSM is on the typical "those people are stupid and less than us" snobbery train by pointing the finger at a high church going rate.

Show me where I said that.

[Clifford]

Agree, though I don't think any one factor can be isolated.

No doubt. That's what makes it a tough problem to solve. And yet, like the murder rate in this country, it seems to be coming down of its own volition without any truly definable cause. Religion hasn't changed and it is coming down. We just went through a recession (which would tend to spike these items) and it is coming down.

I don't think you can look at the explosion of megachurches in the past 25 years and say religion has not changed. Something is changing, I'm just not sure what. My "Church of the Highlands" friend was not even a practicing Christian before he went there, and now he goes three days a week.

He's of the opinion that churches like it are growing in a large part because of a negative reaction to traditional church.

[Jackstraw]

Mississippi probably has the highest concentration of those who consider themselves "religious Christians," tea party supporters and those who oppose birth control.

I do not think kids in New Hampshire or Massachusetts have less sex I think they just have better access to birth control and more open minded policies toward sex education.

I love how the bull#### stereotypes roll right out. No one opposes birth control but the Catholic Church (and lets face it, Catholics themselves largely use birth control). MS is largely protestant. The issue lies not with religion but with the cycle of poverty. Broken homes beget broken homes.

Oh NOW the conservatives hate stereotypes.

[Chadstroma]

Mississippi probably has the highest concentration of those who consider themselves "religious Christians," tea party supporters and those who oppose birth control.

I do not think kids in New Hampshire or Massachusetts have less sex I think they just have better access to birth control and more open minded policies toward sex education.

I would venture a guess that they are more likely to have abortions as well.

[Sand]

I live in Alabama, have my whole life, and I take no issue with that statement by FSM. It's true. It's always a matter of degree and the degrees of difference are always smaller than made out to be, but it is true that religion holds more sway in terms of the culture.

I don't think it necessarily translates to contraception as neatly as some would want to believe. This particular issue has much more to do with the socioeconomic factors you mention. It's not so much a ban on birth control as it is a delusion that kids will abstain because their youth pastor told them to.

I also live in Alabama, and have lived here and in Louisiana. I'll disagree. FSM is right on education, but, frankly, the teen birth rate is not terribly high among affluent and middle class youth (and their sex ed sucks, too). It is very high in the poorest communities. FSM is making out like religion is the root cause, and is simply isn't. It, like many other social factors, has an influence, but it certainly isn't the driver. It is all about the flight away from marriage and stable homes among the poor. Something that has been encouraged and incentivized by the paternalistic entitlement society liberal government has created in those communities.

FSM is on the typical "those people are stupid and less than us" snobbery train by pointing the finger at a high church going rate.

Show me where I said that.

You're right - I was a harsh there. My apologies.

[jb1020]

Who gives a #### guys, we'll have high point beer come July This is a major step into the 20th century for us.

[Gigantomachia]

have to point out that in MN teen birth rates went down, but teen sexual activity went up.

no glove no love appears to have sunk in

[Clifford]

I love how racists always try (and fail) to use math to back up their racism.

[BigSteelThrill]

1. Mississippi 55

2. New Mexico 52.9

3. Arkansas 52.5

4. Texas 52.2

5.Oklahoma 50.4

6. Louisiana 47.7

7. Kentucky 46.2

8. West Virginia 44.8

9. Alabama 43.6

10. Tennessee 43.2

11. South Carolina 42.5

12. Arizona 42.4

13. Georgia 41.4

14. Kansas 39.2

15.Wyoming 39

[[icon]]

Another thing a lot of you unfamiliar with the deep south might be missing is there is very little internal desire for improvement in social areas. Really in any areas.

The people that are smart/well educated and have a problem with the way things are move, or become completely disengaged.

The people that are smart/well educated and don't have a problem with the way things are become part of the system, usually through politics/religion, and benefit financially as much or more than the people who move away.

The people that are not smart/well educated stay mainly out of necessity and even if they are opposed to the way things are generally disenfranchised and shouted down easily by the second group.

So the people who care take a smart pill and get out and don't think about it except when they visit at Christmas if they visit at all. So the people who don't care or support the way things are end up running things.

This is 100% true. I grew up in Rural Massachusetts and go back regularly. I have a GF who escaped a hick down in Rural Tennessee and she has a sister who "escaped" to rural kentucky. I go to these places at least once a year (not to mention seeing plenty of rural south living here on the border of Mississippi/Arkansas).

It is astounding how much people simple accept the hand that they are dealt in the south. You hopefully get through high school.... If you're bright you might make it to community college.... if you're REALLY bright and your parents are well to do you might make it to a reall college, but I'd wager that less than 10% of high school graduates in these towns go on to a real university. Maybe even less than that.

In these towns you simply accept that when you graduate HS (if you make it) you get a job in a local business. Most of it is in manufacturing. Those are the good jobs...getting on a line assembling tractors or building parts for them. My GF's sister works 3 part time jobs as a cleaning lady for a hotel, a short order cook in a small diner attached to a truck stop, and as a cook in a bingo hall. Her husband is an out of work electrician who's lucky to pull down $500 a week between his unemployment and side jobs. They have 3 kids, 4 dogs and a cat.

Mixing and mingling with these folks in Kentucky this past weekend I've come to realize that they just sorta "get by" on what they can. It's amazing how many people get disability checks of some sort from the government. They call them "Crazy Checks" up there. The lack of fitness is disturbing. If you're NOT morbidly obese you stand out and are called "too skinny". Genetic abnormalities are common. Whole families of folks with hunchbacks and limps and such. It's kinda eerie.

And back to the point... EVERYONE has kids. Lots of them. Girls get knocked up in their mid-teens at the latest. Most families I encounter up there have 3-4 kids. None of them can really afford to provide properly for those kids but that never really enters the thought process. Many of them are unwanted, but I didn't really ask why condoms or birth control weren't an option. I'm sure many of them couldn't afford the monthly cost of birth control and the machismo of the guys there would never allow most to spend the cash on condoms or even take the initiative to use them.

One kid was being eyed as a God because he had made it all the way to the big city of "lexington" and got a job an an auto parts assembly line.

It's crazy out there in the country.

[Dexter]

I was in Hattisberg at a club and every single one of those chicks had a kid at home.

[SeveredHorseHeads]

Seems like our good buddy Clinton needs to learn that correlation =/= causation.

[Clifford]

GL with that.

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Seems like our good buddy Clinton needs to learn that correlation =/= causation.

Just a coincidence that virtually every social ill constantly correlates positively with conservatism, both fiscal and social.