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#1 Steeler

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:06 PM

I have a vacation scheduled for the end of June which was approved in early Nov (so nearly 8 months in advance). The project I知 on is a project form hell that has already gone on for 2 years, and our deployment date is in early July. This company has cancelled other people痴 vacations in the past and I知 wondering what to do if they attempt to cancel my vacation. I can fold and not go on the vacation but I don稚 see how I could continue working there if that happened. I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible. I could go on the vacation regardless of the ramifications this feels so right, but would that be huge negative for future employers? Also, what legal options do I have if any? I live/work in FL and its right to work state, so I might be SOL :kicksrock:



#2 Quint

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

i think it kinda depends on your role in the project. are you the PM, lead, or rank and file? if you were one of the first two, and they end up cancelling your request, taking your vacation anyway would at least set a bad example for your subordinates, and at most may get you a reprimand (or worse) from those who you report to. if you're more rank and file, and take your vacation even though it was cancelled, you run the risk of a similar reprimand and breeding resentment from others on the team (i.e. those who have to pick up the slack while you're gone). if they cancel it, i'd suck it up and call it part of life and re-schedule. if you have non-refundable deposits or something similar, you might ask to be reimbursed. depending on the size of the company, they may or may not help you out. no idea what legal issues would pertain to this situation. as an aside: from the tone of your post - "...I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible..." - it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get out. vacation or not, start looking for something else while you're employed. in today's market, future employers view applicants who are currently employed as "vetted" in a sense. much harder to find something after you've been let go or out of work for an extended period of time. good luck.
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#3 bicycle_seat_sniffer

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:30 PM

you are not that important.

 

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#4 johnnycakes

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your life is a trainwreck of epic proportions.


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#5 bigbottom

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

Also, what legal options do I have if any? I live/work in FL and its right to work state, so I might be SOL :kicksrock:

Unfortunately, you likely have no legal options from an employment law standpoint. As for living in a right to work state, I think you mean to say a state with "at will" employment. Being a "right to work" state means something completely different.
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#6 Chase Stuart

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

How much money do you make?
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#7 Steeler

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

#8 Steeler

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:48 PM

Also, what legal options do I have if any? I live/work in FL and its right to work state, so I might be SOL :kicksrock:

Unfortunately, you likely have no legal options from an employment law standpoint. As for living in a right to work state, I think you mean to say a state with "at will" employment. Being a "right to work" state means something completely different.

Doh! You are correct.

#9 Steeler

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:54 PM

How much money do you make?

FBG money of course. When I've looked for other jobs, my current salary is near the top of range that other people are offering.

#10 honky kong

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:57 PM

as an aside: from the tone of your post - "...I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible..." - it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get out. vacation or not, start looking for something else while you're employed.

This was my initial thought but I don't think it helps his chances of finding something if he says "I want the job but I'm gonna need time off pretty much as soon as I start."

#11 Steeler

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:25 PM

as an aside: from the tone of your post - "...I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible..." - it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get out. vacation or not, start looking for something else while you're employed.

This was my initial thought but I don't think it helps his chances of finding something if he says "I want the job but I'm gonna need time off pretty much as soon as I start."

As I said in the previous post; I have some feelers out there for other opportunities but my current salary is near the top of the range I could get elsewhere based on the jobs I have seen so far. And most of those have been contract work, and I'm full-time right now.

#12 Ignoramus

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:26 PM

as an aside: from the tone of your post - "...I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible..." - it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get out. vacation or not, start looking for something else while you're employed.

This was my initial thought but I don't think it helps his chances of finding something if he says "I want the job but I'm gonna need time off pretty much as soon as I start."

"I have a family trip scheduled for late June but can start immediately following that" is an easy conversation to have and is completely reasonable.
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#13 honky kong

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:12 PM

as an aside: from the tone of your post - "...I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible..." - it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get out. vacation or not, start looking for something else while you're employed.

This was my initial thought but I don't think it helps his chances of finding something if he says "I want the job but I'm gonna need time off pretty much as soon as I start."

"I have a family trip scheduled for late June but can start immediately following that" is an easy conversation to have and is completely reasonable.

1. It's April. How many employers are willing to wait for 2 months? 2. I'm not saying the conversation is unreasonable, I'm saying if I have 2 applicants that are fairly equal I probably take the guy that's not going to take time off out of the gate. It may not be something that comes up for the OP but it should at least be a consideration.

Edited by honky kong, 14 April 2012 - 08:15 PM.


#14 Chase Stuart

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:29 PM

How much money do you make?

FBG money of course. When I've looked for other jobs, my current salary is near the top of range that other people are offering.

You're making FBG money. Suck it up, do a good job, and hopefully soon enough you'll be high enough on the food chain that you can make the new you work during your vacation.
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#15 Mr. Know-It-All

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:01 PM

I have had one family vacation have to get rescheduled in 18+ years in IT. They reimbursed us for our plane tickets and hotel reservations and the success of the project eventually led to a $1,200 bonus unexpectedly. That said, the economy at the time was significantly better than it is today. Your work is what allows you the ability to take vacations so you may just have to suck it up. If you do, make that a negotiation point in your next review.
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#16 Novice2

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:27 AM

I'd quite and go work for Netflix where they have an unlimited vacation policy.

#17 comfortably numb

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:35 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

How difficult would it be to move your vacation? Any non-refundable $ invested? Are you just going to be staying with family for a week in Georgia and you want to fight this out of pride/principle. Or do you have a exotic once in a lifetime trip planned? Also, just to make sure, are you the reason this project has gone to hell and may need to be deployed to another date?

Edited by comfortably numb, 15 April 2012 - 03:36 AM.


#18 moleculo

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:58 AM

you are not that important.

This.
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#19 Steeler

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:06 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

How difficult would it be to move your vacation? Any non-refundable $ invested? Are you just going to be staying with family for a week in Georgia and you want to fight this out of pride/principle. Or do you have a exotic once in a lifetime trip planned? Also, just to make sure, are you the reason this project has gone to hell and may need to be deployed to another date?

No, I'm not the reason the project has gone south. We planned a week-long vacation for my Mom's 70th birthday and 4 families would have to coordinate the change of the date. The planning/coordination for the event took about 4 to 6 months alone (due to so many different schedules being involved). And since it's a milestone birthday, it is sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

#20 Steeler

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:09 AM

you are not that important.

This.

I'm not really arguing this point. I just want some feedback on what future employers will think if I take the vacation anyway and then get fired.

#21 Apple Jack

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:36 AM

you are not that important.

This.

I'm not really arguing this point. I just want some feedback on what future employers will think if I take the vacation anyway and then get fired.

Future employers won't want anything to do with you. You can definitely look forward to a lengthy run of unemployment if you allow yourself to be fired over this. You need to talk completely above board with the project manager or director or whoever is in charge of this thing and tell them what's going on. My hunch is that they'll roll their eyes and tell you just to go on the weekend. Maybe take a Friday or Monday. That's what most people would do. Mom's 70th birthday "week" does not trump work deadlines for most people.

Edited by Apple Jack, 15 April 2012 - 04:37 AM.


#22 johnnycakes

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:01 AM

I can't tell you what all future employers would do. But I work in a business where meeting deadlines is part of the job description. There are a couple of things for which I have zero tolerance. Taking time off immediately before a deadline when that person's support is needed to help meet the deadline is a zero-tolerance item in my book. (The other is, "oh, I don't know how to do that", or in more PC terms, "that's not my job."... If I asked you to do something, thinking it should be within your capabilities, (a) I don't care if it's 'not your job', and if you don't know how to do it, I expect you to learn how to do it and get it done.) I remember when I was with The Firm, we had a "star" staff member who pulled both of these simultaneously. I asked her to work on something that, technically, may have been just slightly beyond her capailities, but which she could quickly and competently bone up upon with 2-3 hours reading and come to me with any questions to finish the job. Instead of sacking it up, she came back with, "oh, that's not my job" and looked at me with a beaver face with teeth sticking out over her lips. By the time I got done chewing her out, she was so shaken up, she had to take 3 days off several weeks before a major deadline. I had personnel pull her off of all my assigned jobs as a result. Naturally, this raises questions as to why. Eventually, she moved on to "national" where she could more easily pretend she knew what she was doing. So if I saw you pulled this crap with your employer? My opinion would be lower than whale crap. But that's just speaking for me.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your life is a trainwreck of epic proportions.


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#23 Mr. Know-It-All

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:44 AM

I can't tell you what all future employers would do. But I work in a business where meeting deadlines is part of the job description. There are a couple of things for which I have zero tolerance. Taking time off immediately before a deadline when that person's support is needed to help meet the deadline is a zero-tolerance item in my book. (The other is, "oh, I don't know how to do that", or in more PC terms, "that's not my job."... If I asked you to do something, thinking it should be within your capabilities, (a) I don't care if it's 'not your job', and if you don't know how to do it, I expect you to learn how to do it and get it done.) I remember when I was with The Firm, we had a "star" staff member who pulled both of these simultaneously. I asked her to work on something that, technically, may have been just slightly beyond her capailities, but which she could quickly and competently bone up upon with 2-3 hours reading and come to me with any questions to finish the job. Instead of sacking it up, she came back with, "oh, that's not my job" and looked at me with a beaver face with teeth sticking out over her lips. By the time I got done chewing her out, she was so shaken up, she had to take 3 days off several weeks before a major deadline. I had personnel pull her off of all my assigned jobs as a result. Naturally, this raises questions as to why. Eventually, she moved on to "national" where she could more easily pretend she knew what she was doing. So if I saw you pulled this crap with your employer? My opinion would be lower than whale crap. But that's just speaking for me.

I am putting you on speed dial for whenevr I need the unvarnished truth. Nice response...not good to hear,,,but honest.
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#24 glumpy

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:50 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

How difficult would it be to move your vacation? Any non-refundable $ invested? Are you just going to be staying with family for a week in Georgia and you want to fight this out of pride/principle. Or do you have a exotic once in a lifetime trip planned? Also, just to make sure, are you the reason this project has gone to hell and may need to be deployed to another date?

No, I'm not the reason the project has gone south. We planned a week-long vacation for my Mom's 70th birthday and 4 families would have to coordinate the change of the date. The planning/coordination for the event took about 4 to 6 months alone (due to so many different schedules being involved). And since it's a milestone birthday, it is sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

It is indeed a once in a lifetime thing--so you can't reschedule as I see it from here, as difficult as it was to set up. Just my opinion so take it for what it cost to get it--but I think that means the celebration goes on without you, and you'll want to do something else afterwards with your Mom to celebrate. If you blow off the deadline it could be a ten years in a lifetime thing and I really doubt your loved ones would appreciate you being at this event if it impacts your career that way. Given the notice you gave for taking this vacation, I do think the company would be willing to compensate for advance tickets lost and such. One would hope, anyway, because this might be a career decision for you.
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#25 comfortably numb

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:14 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

How difficult would it be to move your vacation? Any non-refundable $ invested? Are you just going to be staying with family for a week in Georgia and you want to fight this out of pride/principle. Or do you have a exotic once in a lifetime trip planned? Also, just to make sure, are you the reason this project has gone to hell and may need to be deployed to another date?

No, I'm not the reason the project has gone south. We planned a week-long vacation for my Mom's 70th birthday and 4 families would have to coordinate the change of the date. The planning/coordination for the event took about 4 to 6 months alone (due to so many different schedules being involved). And since it's a milestone birthday, it is sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

How far away is the party from your house?

#26 Steeler

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:34 AM

Future employers won't want anything to do with you.

So if I saw you pulled this crap with your employer? My opinion would be lower than whale crap.

Thanks for the unequivocal responses.

#27 Steeler

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:36 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

How difficult would it be to move your vacation? Any non-refundable $ invested? Are you just going to be staying with family for a week in Georgia and you want to fight this out of pride/principle. Or do you have a exotic once in a lifetime trip planned? Also, just to make sure, are you the reason this project has gone to hell and may need to be deployed to another date?

No, I'm not the reason the project has gone south. We planned a week-long vacation for my Mom's 70th birthday and 4 families would have to coordinate the change of the date. The planning/coordination for the event took about 4 to 6 months alone (due to so many different schedules being involved). And since it's a milestone birthday, it is sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

How far away is the party from your house?

~ 550 miles, and several states away from me.

#28 renesauz

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

Easy.....talk to your bosses about it now. A valued employee at the top of his salary range should be willing to move a vacation 2 or 3 weeks given 2 months notice. IE: I find your whining about this ridiculous. ETA: After reading further and seeing your plans, I would still suggest meeting the problem head-on. Don't wait for your vacation to be cancelled. Talk to your boss NOW about the potential problem, and why those dates are important to you. He may not be able to give you the vacation, but if he's anywhere close to a decent human being, he'll try to work something out for you, and you'll know now instead of later.

Edited by renesauz, 15 April 2012 - 07:35 AM.

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#29 Mr.Pack

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:44 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

This is what I was kind of thinking. If your PM or any type of lead on the project, why would you schedule a vacation right before the project is about to be released?

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#30 Maelstrom

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

This is what I was kind of thinking. If your PM or any type of lead on the project, why would you schedule a vacation right before the project is about to be released?

Um, reading comprehension - he scheduled the vac after the release date, release date slipped and was moved to after his vac. date. As to the question, I had a similar thing happen, but as my "vacation" was really just taking time off to work on the home, I just rescheduled that to a later time. I think you need to bring it up now with your boss and find out what your options are. Don't make ultimatums, but approach it with the facts about how it ended up in this situation, along with any possible resolutions you may thing are appropriate. Always better to have a possible solution rather than just bringing the problem.

Edited by Maelstrom, 15 April 2012 - 08:39 AM.

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#31 Mr.Pack

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:21 AM



Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

This is what I was kind of thinking.

If your PM or any type of lead on the project, why would you schedule a vacation right before the project is about to be released?

Um, reading comprehension - he scheduled the vac after the release date, release date slipped and was moved to after his vac. date.

As to the question, I had a similar thing happen, but as my "vacation" was really just taking time off to work on the home, I just rescheduled that to a later time. I think you need to bring it up now with your boss and find out what your options are. Don't make ultimatums, but approach it with the facts about how it ended up in this situation, along with any possible resolutions you may thing are appropriate. Always better to have a possible solution rather than just bringing the problem.

:lmao: :lmao:

He never stated this until later in the thread.

Move along son.

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#32 Chase Stuart

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:33 AM

I have a vacation scheduled for the end of June which was approved in early Nov (so nearly 8 months in advance). The project I知 on is a project form hell that has already gone on for 2 years, and our deployment date is in early July. This company has cancelled other people痴 vacations in the past and I知 wondering what to do if they attempt to cancel my vacation.

I can fold and not go on the vacation but I don稚 see how I could continue working there if that happened. I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible.

I could go on the vacation regardless of the ramifications this feels so right, but would that be huge negative for future employers?

Also, what legal options do I have if any? I live/work in FL and its right to work state, so I might be SOL :kicksrock:

Can you tell us a little more about what you do? In some fields, such long notice is meaningless. In some fields, you won't know how your two-week window looks until about two weeks prior to that. It's nice to give long notice but it's ultimately meaningless in many situations (again, depending on your business/industry). If it was approved when your boss thought you weren't going to be busy, and now you will be, can you really fault him/her for that?
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#33 Maelstrom

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:34 AM




Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

This is what I was kind of thinking.

If your PM or any type of lead on the project, why would you schedule a vacation right before the project is about to be released?

Um, reading comprehension - he scheduled the vac after the release date, release date slipped and was moved to after his vac. date.

As to the question, I had a similar thing happen, but as my "vacation" was really just taking time off to work on the home, I just rescheduled that to a later time. I think you need to bring it up now with your boss and find out what your options are. Don't make ultimatums, but approach it with the facts about how it ended up in this situation, along with any possible resolutions you may thing are appropriate. Always better to have a possible solution rather than just bringing the problem.

:lmao: :lmao:

He never stated this until later in the thread.

Move along son.

In post 7. Hardly too far to read, but apparently it is.
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#34 bushdocda

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:47 AM

I'd bring up the dates with whomever you think might fire you and discuss it. If you can't take the whole week bc you're too important when the time comes then try to pull off a long weekend.

#35 Mr.Pack

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:55 AM





Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

This is what I was kind of thinking.

If your PM or any type of lead on the project, why would you schedule a vacation right before the project is about to be released?

Um, reading comprehension - he scheduled the vac after the release date, release date slipped and was moved to after his vac. date.

As to the question, I had a similar thing happen, but as my "vacation" was really just taking time off to work on the home, I just rescheduled that to a later time. I think you need to bring it up now with your boss and find out what your options are. Don't make ultimatums, but approach it with the facts about how it ended up in this situation, along with any possible resolutions you may thing are appropriate. Always better to have a possible solution rather than just bringing the problem.

:lmao: :lmao:

He never stated this until later in the thread.

Move along son.

In post 7. Hardly too far to read, but apparently it is.

You really cannot be this ignorant.

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#36 moleculo

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:57 AM

Here's how you could frame it: It's a work-life balance thing to go on this, very important family obligation. You and the company have2 months to figure out how to cope in your absence, including the possibility of you still participating (on a limited basis) remotely - i.e. take your laptop & cell phone, participate on all important conference calls, etc. Work with the company to find a way to mitigate the impact of your absence, and figure it out.
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#37 Furious Styles

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:50 AM

You could get hit by a bus tomorrow and the company would have to figure something out. I would remind your boss again about the days off and explain the amount of people involved in this family event. I would in a polite way state that this is why you asked for it so far in advance and tell him you just wanted to make sure he understands why no matter where things stand with the project you will not be there for this time period.
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#38 bigbottom

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:53 AM

Just drag your feet and put the project another six months behind. Then a June vacation won't be as big a deal.
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#39 VA703

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:15 AM

work remotely or come down with a weeklong flu

Edited by VA703, 15 April 2012 - 11:15 AM.


#40 johnnycakes

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

Project deployment in early July, so you take a June vacation. smooth move.

My vacation was scheduled before the deployment date was moved to early July.

How difficult would it be to move your vacation? Any non-refundable $ invested? Are you just going to be staying with family for a week in Georgia and you want to fight this out of pride/principle. Or do you have a exotic once in a lifetime trip planned? Also, just to make sure, are you the reason this project has gone to hell and may need to be deployed to another date?

No, I'm not the reason the project has gone south. We planned a week-long vacation for my Mom's 70th birthday and 4 families would have to coordinate the change of the date. The planning/coordination for the event took about 4 to 6 months alone (due to so many different schedules being involved). And since it's a milestone birthday, it is sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

If you're vital to the project, I agree with the poster above who said to head this off now. But don't plan on getting the whole week approved. If I were the bossman, I would probably be sympathetic to the 70th birthday and family reunion thing... but I also would figure you really don't need a whole week to celebrate. There's probably one particular day or weekend that is central to the celebration... if it's a Saturday, for example, I might be sympathetic to giving you the Friday and Monday adjacent to that weekend. Also, if I were the bossman, you would get bonus points in my book for bringing this up well in advance, appearing to actually volunteer to give up some of that pre-approved vacation time to keep the project on track. You play this right, and you can look like a mensch. Much better than either (a) keeping quiet about it and actually taking the time - especially if that were to adversely impact any others, whether that was to be expected or not, or (b) waiting for me to bring it up to you and having to ask you to cancel the whole trip - in which case, coming back with the counter-offer of taking only the most important few days might not be viewed in nearly as positive a light as if you had brought it up yourself a month or more beforehand.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your life is a trainwreck of epic proportions.


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#41 Ignoramus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

as an aside: from the tone of your post - "...I would immediately begin searching for a new job in earnest and leave as soon as possible..." - it sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get out. vacation or not, start looking for something else while you're employed.

This was my initial thought but I don't think it helps his chances of finding something if he says "I want the job but I'm gonna need time off pretty much as soon as I start."

"I have a family trip scheduled for late June but can start immediately following that" is an easy conversation to have and is completely reasonable.

1. It's April. How many employers are willing to wait for 2 months? 2. I'm not saying the conversation is unreasonable, I'm saying if I have 2 applicants that are fairly equal I probably take the guy that's not going to take time off out of the gate. It may not be something that comes up for the OP but it should at least be a consideration.

1. If he had an offer for a new job to start today, then obviously he shouldn't try to push the start date to June. If he's just starting to look for a new job today then it's something to bring up once they've made an offer, IMO. 2. Fair point. I guess I'm not in a business where someone having a week off is going to make a huge impact on things in the long run, so that wouldn't factor too heavily in my decision-making.
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#42 Steeler

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:34 PM

Just drag your feet and put the project another six months behind. Then a June vacation won't be as big a deal.

Best advice so far ;)




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