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Robert Meachem & Malcom Floyd, WRs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2012 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. This year, we plan to publish more than 140 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters.

As always we will post a list of players to be discussed each week. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discuss expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Robert Meachem & Malcom Floyd, WRs, San Diego Chargers

Player Page Link: Robert Meachem Player Page

Player Page Link: Malcom Floyd Player Page

Each article will include:

[*]Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member

[*]Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads

[*]FBG Projections

[*]Consensus Member Projections

The Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

[*]Focus commentary on the player (or players) in question, and your expectations for said player (or players)

[*]Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"

[*]Avoid redundancies or :popcorn: ... this should be about incremental analysis or debate

While not a requirement, we strongly encourage you to provide your own projections for the player (players):

Projections should include:

[*]For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Attempts, Rush Yards, Rush TDs

[*]For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

[*]For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs

Now let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
I figure Floyd will do about what he did last year. His role is not changing. He isn't changing position. And Meachem was brought in to fill the VJax role. So I don't see an uptick or down tick, unless he gets hurt. People need to remember that he is 31. Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.

I'll go with a repeat of last year: 45/850/5

Meachem is a former first round pick who at 28 is in his prime. He also has never had a 1000 yards but I think he has the talent, the role (VJax's by all accounts from Coaches), and the QB to do it. If you tally the total LOST production of VJax and Tolbert, it has to go somewhere. I don't see it going to Floyd. I don't see Gates increasing his production that much at his age. Matthews will get a bit more, but he had 50 receptions last year--is he really going to catch 70? I doubt it. Brown will improve on his 19 receptions, but even if he catches 40, there is still a lot on the table for the WR1 in that offense, which is Meachem.

People underestimate his ability because he had high expectations as first round pick and then took a year to deal with an injury and to adapt to the NFL game. People said he had bad hands coming out of college; but his catch % has been above average, especially for a guy who runs deep routes. Then people said he could only run deep routes, but in the Meachem thread that claim is rebutted. Norv Turner himself has observed that Meachem can run the full route tree and has exceeded expectations so far; he simply was not asked to run those routes in NO. He has break away speed, good hands, and good size. What's not to like?

He catches 70 out of the 114 receptions the team lost between VJax and Tolbert. That still leaves 40 receptions for Brown, which would be a big leap for him, and and another 4 for Matthews, which would give him 54. Gates and Floyd I expect to do similar as last year.

70/1050/8

 
'az_prof said:
I figure Floyd will do about what he did last year. His role is not changing. He isn't changing position. And Meachem was brought in to fill the VJax role. So I don't see an uptick or down tick, unless he gets hurt. People need to remember that he is 31. Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.I'll go with a repeat of last year: 45/850/5
Click to expand...
Floyd missed 4 games last season, so you're suggesting his numbers will go down per game or he'll be hurt again (certainly possible). I think if he stays healthy he hits 1k with about 7 TDs. Meachem will probably have similar numbers when all is said and done (assuming both are healthy).
 
Meachem is poised to do what others have done in the past. I look at him as a possible Joe Horn type of guy who will change teams as he enters his prime. The team he left did not want to keep him long term, much like the Chiefs felt there was no long term future on their roster for Horn. I think folks are going to kick themselves for not drafting him as the WR30-WR40 off the board. He is clearly going to be one of the 1st options for Rivers. The fact he has a big gun arm QB like Rivers will help to exploit his talents. Brees was deadly accurate but he does not have the biggest arm in the league, not a knock on Brees but he is about precision. I think Rivers is going to enjoy playing long ball with Meachem. Floyd is now 31 and we have seen the best he can do and it is a far cry from a WR1.

Meachem will garner somewhere in the neighborhood of about 6-10 targets a week depending on the opponent and whether the Bolts are playing catch up or not. I think 120 targets is a reasonable expectation. If he can catch about 57-60% of those targets he should easily rack up 65-70 balls, 1,000 yards, 7-8 TDs.

70/1000/7TDs...should be a solid WR2 that you can get for a WR4 price right now.

 
From the previous Meachem thread:

'Just Win Baby said:
Meachem has never had more than 73 targets in a season in New Orleans. VJax got 107 in 15 games in 2009 and 114 in 16 games last year, those being his last two full time seasons in San Diego. His 2009 pace scales to 114 targets in 16 games, so the Chargers were consistent in targeting him. Meachem should get a minimum of 100 targets next season if he stays healthy.

Meachem had 129/1980/20 receiving on 203 targets over the past three seasons in New Orleans. Scaling this to 100 targets yields 64/975/10. The TDs might be inflated slightly because he had an unusually high total in 2009. But these numbers are not inconsistent with Jackson's numbers in 2008 (59/1098/7), 2009 (68/1167/9), and 2011 (60/1106/9).

I could easily see Meachem with 60/1000/8, or something similar, which is right in line with Norv's comment.
Click to expand...
There is a lot of other good info in that thread.
 
I decided to look a bit deeper at how Gates, Jackson, and Floyd were targeted when all were healthy. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a lot of meaningful data. Floyd really didn't emerge until halfway through 2009, after Chambers was traded, and missed some partial games due to injury. Jackson had the holdout in 2010 and came back late in the season but not necessarily at his normal performance level. Gates played a lot of games hurt and missed some partial games. That said, here is how they were targeted in games all three played:

2009: All three played in 9 games (weeks 9-16 and 19) after Floyd became a starter. Their performance in those games:

Gates 69 targets, 49/715/5

Jackson 59 targets, 38/614/4

Floyd 47 targets, 28/415/0

2010: Technically, they were all active in week 12, but it was Jackson's first game back and he had 0 targets, then he missed the following game. So there was no real sample in 2010.

2011: All three played in 9 games (weeks 1-2, 7-8, 13-17). Their performance in those games:

Gates 57 targets, 41/516/4

Jackson 66 targets, 32/548/4

Floyd 55 targets, 36/702/4

Total over 18 games:

Gates 126 targets, 90/1231/9

Jackson 125 targets, 70/1162/8

Floyd 102 targets, 64/1117/4

Scaling that to 16 games yields the following:

Gates 112 targets, 80/1094/8

Jackson 111 targets, 62/1033/7

Floyd 91 targets, 57/993/4

Jackson and Gates were very close, with a clear gap between them and Floyd.

With the addition of Meachem (and Royal), Gates' role should be unchanged. It is obviously a matter of some debate as to how the WR roles will be different from the past. IMO the Chargers signed Meachem to replace Jackson and be their WR1, and I think it's clear Floyd will be the WR2. I think Brown will be the WR3 and Royal will not be a significant factor, but I know others disagree with that. Regardless, there won't be many targets to go around after the TEs (mostly Gates), RBs (mostly Mathews), WR1 (Meachem), and WR2 (Floyd). The WR3 (and thus obviously the WR4 and WR5) has held very little fantasy value for the Chargers over the years. Consider a couple previous posts:

'Just Win Baby said:
San Diego's #2 WR has not traditionally had much fantasy value. They throw a lot to the RBs and TEs, and Rivers spreads the ball around between the #2/3/4 WRs.

Here are the number of targets for the second most targeted Chargers WR by season since Norv arrived:

2011 - 70 (Floyd)

2010 - 46 (Naanee)

2009 - 91 (Chambers)

2008 - 64 (Chambers)

2007 - 63 (Chambers)

It's pretty tough to have fantasy value with target numbers like that.
Click to expand...
'Just Win Baby said:
The offense is designed to throw a lot to the TEs and RBs. Since Norv arrived, the Chargers are last in the NFL in WR targets, and by a fair margin. They targeted their WRs 1215 times over those 5 seasons; the next lowest was Oakland with 1263, the median was 1561, and the leader was Arizona with 2074. Those are huge discrepancies.

...

IMO it is likely the offense will continue to throw a lot to the TEs and RBs. If they need a new TE to do that, I suspect they'll get one.
Click to expand...
There are mitigating circumstances for those WR2 numbers (missed games, Chambers midseason trades), but the biggest factor IMO is how much the Chargers target the RBs and TEs, as shown by the other post. Even if they can sustain two useful WRs in addition to Gates, it seems really unlikely that Brown and/or Royal -- the WR3 and WR4 -- can be much of a factor, barring injury or a radical shift in the offensive philosophy.So... all that to figure out how to project Meachem and Floyd. I'm inclined to project them very close, something like this:

Meachem: 65/1050/8

Floyd: 60/975/4

There is definite upside above these numbers if any of Gates or Mathews gets hurt. And upside for Meachem if Floyd gets hurt, and vice versa.

Meachem clearly seems like the play here IMO, for a few reasons. First, he is a good red zone target despite not being targeted frequently in the red zone in New Orleans (I posted the data in the other Meachem thread). Meanwhile, he also scored a lot of TDs from outside the red zone. And all of the other primary San Diego targets (Gates, Floyd, and Mathews) have had some difficulty staying healthy and on the field.

That said, Floyd may also be a nice upside play given his likely low price.

I don't think any other San Diego WRs will have useful value unless there are injuries, maybe multiple injuries.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Just Win Baby said:
I decided to look a bit deeper at how Gates, Jackson, and Floyd were targeted when all were healthy. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a lot of meaningful data. Floyd really didn't emerge until halfway through 2009, after Chambers was traded, and missed some partial games due to injury. Jackson had the holdout in 2010 and came back late in the season but not necessarily at his normal performance level. Gates played a lot of games hurt and missed some partial games. That said, here is how they were targeted in games all three played:

2009: All three played in 9 games (weeks 9-16 and 19) after Floyd became a starter. Their performance in those games:

Gates 69 targets, 49/715/5

Jackson 59 targets, 38/614/4

Floyd 47 targets, 28/415/0

2010: Technically, they were all active in week 12, but it was Jackson's first game back and he had 0 targets, then he missed the following game. So there was no real sample in 2010.

2011: All three played in 9 games (weeks 1-2, 7-8, 13-17). Their performance in those games:

Gates 57 targets, 41/516/4

Jackson 66 targets, 32/548/4

Floyd 55 targets, 36/702/4

Total over 18 games:

Gates 126 targets, 90/1231/9

Jackson 125 targets, 70/1162/8

Floyd 102 targets, 64/1117/4

Scaling that to 16 games yields the following:

Gates 112 targets, 80/1094/8

Jackson 111 targets, 62/1033/7

Floyd 91 targets, 57/993/4

Jackson and Gates were very close, with a clear gap between them and Floyd.

With the addition of Meachem (and Royal), Gates' role should be unchanged. It is obviously a matter of some debate as to how the WR roles will be different from the past. IMO the Chargers signed Meachem to replace Jackson and be their WR1, and I think it's clear Floyd will be the WR2. I think Brown will be the WR3 and Royal will not be a significant factor, but I know others disagree with that. Regardless, there won't be many targets to go around after the TEs (mostly Gates), RBs (mostly Mathews), WR1 (Meachem), and WR2 (Floyd). The WR3 (and thus obviously the WR4 and WR5) has held very little fantasy value for the Chargers over the years. Consider a couple previous posts:

'Just Win Baby said:
San Diego's #2 WR has not traditionally had much fantasy value. They throw a lot to the RBs and TEs, and Rivers spreads the ball around between the #2/3/4 WRs.

Here are the number of targets for the second most targeted Chargers WR by season since Norv arrived:

2011 - 70 (Floyd)

2010 - 46 (Naanee)

2009 - 91 (Chambers)

2008 - 64 (Chambers)

2007 - 63 (Chambers)

It's pretty tough to have fantasy value with target numbers like that.
Click to expand...
'Just Win Baby said:
The offense is designed to throw a lot to the TEs and RBs. Since Norv arrived, the Chargers are last in the NFL in WR targets, and by a fair margin. They targeted their WRs 1215 times over those 5 seasons; the next lowest was Oakland with 1263, the median was 1561, and the leader was Arizona with 2074. Those are huge discrepancies.

...

IMO it is likely the offense will continue to throw a lot to the TEs and RBs. If they need a new TE to do that, I suspect they'll get one.
Click to expand...
There are mitigating circumstances for those WR2 numbers (missed games, Chambers midseason trades), but the biggest factor IMO is how much the Chargers target the RBs and TEs, as shown by the other post. Even if they can sustain two useful WRs in addition to Gates, it seems really unlikely that Brown and/or Royal -- the WR3 and WR4 -- can be much of a factor, barring injury or a radical shift in the offensive philosophy.So... all that to figure out how to project Meachem and Floyd. I'm inclined to project them very close, something like this:

Meachem: 65/1050/8

Floyd: 60/975/4

There is definite upside above these numbers if any of Gates or Mathews gets hurt. And upside for Meachem if Floyd gets hurt, and vice versa.

Meachem clearly seems like the play here IMO, for a few reasons. First, he is a good red zone target despite not being targeted frequently in the red zone in New Orleans (I posted the data in the other Meachem thread). Meanwhile, he also scored a lot of TDs from outside the red zone. And all of the other primary San Diego targets (Gates, Floyd, and Mathews) have had some difficulty staying healthy and on the field.

That said, Floyd may also be a nice upside play given his likely low price.

I don't think any other San Diego WRs will have useful value unless there are injuries, maybe multiple injuries.
Click to expand...
very :goodposting: I cant wait for preseason to see how this all might play out. meachem by default will have a career year for targets. its debatable if that was holding him back in New Orleans.

i can see vincent brown stepping up if/when floyd gets hurt as well. meachem presents good value right now, and brown might have a second half surge depending on injuries to floyd/meachem. imo brown looked good as a rook and made a few big plays that stuck out to me.

 
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.

 
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
Click to expand...
when the season begins, floyd will be 31. i see 5 people have done it...

"So you're saying there's a chance!"

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Including my thoughts from the Meachem thread as that is still my current thinking

'SexyRexy said:
JWB breaks down the Chargers better than anyone I have read, so his endorsement of Meachem carries a lot of weight with me.I love me some Vincent Brown but I don't know how much opportunity he will get. I'm guessing "more" but haven't much of a clue otherwise.Malcom Floyd is tantalizing but the guy just cant seem to stay healthy.Right now I think the move (redraft, huge rosters) is to draft Meachem then back with Vincent Brown much later, giving me two guys who I think can put up numbers with Rivers-who I think will rebound in a big way
Click to expand...
 
'lexdizzle said:
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
Click to expand...
when the season begins, floyd will be 31. i see 5 people have done it...

"So you're saying there's a chance!"
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to see how many 29 year old wide receivers switched teams and scored their 1st 1k season. I doubt that's something that happens very often, but I could be wrong.
 
'todisco1 said:
'lexdizzle said:
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
Click to expand...
when the season begins, floyd will be 31. i see 5 people have done it...

"So you're saying there's a chance!"
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to see how many 29 year old wide receivers switched teams and scored their 1st 1k season. I doubt that's something that happens very often, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I think meach will be 28 this year
 
'lexdizzle said:
'todisco1 said:
'lexdizzle said:
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
Click to expand...
when the season begins, floyd will be 31. i see 5 people have done it...

"So you're saying there's a chance!"
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to see how many 29 year old wide receivers switched teams and scored their 1st 1k season. I doubt that's something that happens very often, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I think meach will be 28 this year
Click to expand...
Ahh, I stand corrected. Would still be curious though. Often takes a WR a year or so to get used to a new team/offense, especially if they've never been "the guy" before.
 
'todisco1 said:
'lexdizzle said:
'todisco1 said:
'lexdizzle said:
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
Click to expand...
when the season begins, floyd will be 31. i see 5 people have done it...

"So you're saying there's a chance!"
Click to expand...
I'd be interested to see how many 29 year old wide receivers switched teams and scored their 1st 1k season. I doubt that's something that happens very often, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I think meach will be 28 this year
Click to expand...
Ahh, I stand corrected. Would still be curious though. Often takes a WR a year or so to get used to a new team/offense, especially if they've never been "the guy" before.
Click to expand...
I know this is "common wisdom," but I am not sure it is true. I have never seen a statistical study that proved this theory. You would need to control for QB plays--obviously if a player goes from Drew Brees to Mark Sanchez, you would expect a decline in production. You would need to control for role: if a guy was a starter and now becomes a backup or a slot guy, that would be apples and oranges. I think if the basic theory is true, you would also want to control for timing--did the guy get traded or signed a few weeks before the season or even mid-season or was it early in FA? Basically, a WR switching teams is like a rookie with respect to the new team and QB. On the other hand, they have the benefit of having played in a PRO style offense. It might also depend on how different the new offense it. Lots of variables make it hard to take this as a hard and fast rule.
 
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
Click to expand...
Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
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Also, Brandon Lloyd was 29.
 
'az_prof said:
'todisco1 said:
'lexdizzle said:
'todisco1 said:
'lexdizzle said:
'Dr. Octopus said:
'az_prof said:
Is there a WR in the history of the NFL who never had achieved a 1000 yard season and did it post 30? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that Floyd is good enough to be the first.
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Tony Martin had his first 1,000 season after turning 30. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartTo00.htmFrank Lewis had his first 1,000 season at 32. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiFr00.htm

Bobby Engram had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EngrBo00.htm

Eddie Kenninson had his first 1,000 season at age 31. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

Quadry Ismail had his first 1,000 season at age 29*. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsmaQa00.htm

Pete Reztlaff had his first 1,000 season at age 34. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RetzPe00.htm

Wesley Walker had his second 1,000 season at age 31 (after only one in his previous 9 seasons.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkWe00.htm

Drew Hill had his first 1,000 season at age 29.* http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HillDr00.htm

* does not qualify for the parameters but close enough to mention.
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when the season begins, floyd will be 31. i see 5 people have done it...

"So you're saying there's a chance!"
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I'd be interested to see how many 29 year old wide receivers switched teams and scored their 1st 1k season. I doubt that's something that happens very often, but I could be wrong.
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I think meach will be 28 this year
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Ahh, I stand corrected. Would still be curious though. Often takes a WR a year or so to get used to a new team/offense, especially if they've never been "the guy" before.
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I know this is "common wisdom," but I am not sure it is true. I have never seen a statistical study that proved this theory. You would need to control for QB plays--obviously if a player goes from Drew Brees to Mark Sanchez, you would expect a decline in production. You would need to control for role: if a guy was a starter and now becomes a backup or a slot guy, that would be apples and oranges. I think if the basic theory is true, you would also want to control for timing--did the guy get traded or signed a few weeks before the season or even mid-season or was it early in FA? Basically, a WR switching teams is like a rookie with respect to the new team and QB. On the other hand, they have the benefit of having played in a PRO style offense. It might also depend on how different the new offense it. Lots of variables make it hard to take this as a hard and fast rule.
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Good points; I guess every situation is a bit unique. IMO I think it's tough to predict how a WR will respond when given the starter role on a new team after never having been a starter. For every Joe Horn or Brandon Lloyd there is probably a Jerry Porter or Peerless Price. Probably comes down to a gut feeling on how Meachem will respond. I wish I had a good read on him, but I honestly don't know what's going to happen. He's one of the more intriguing fantasy players this season. Right now I'm still on board with Malcom Floyd who I think is a great value at his current ADP. Meachem is going a bit earlier and I think there's a decent chance their stats are similar... but I wouldn't be any money on the SD receivers this year, I just don't know lol.
 
any other thoughts on these WRs? is floyd the target over meachem? I have watched a little SD preseason and it seems meachem is not on the same page with rivers. Floyd looked pretty good the last game. 3 rec for 40 or something in limited time. VJaxs production has to go somewhere.....

 
Had Meachem ranked as the #5 receiving target before V.Brown injury. Bumped him up to #3 now, but still think it was a terrible terrible terrible terrible signing. It took the guy 25 years to learn the New Orleans offense....not sure why anyone would think it'd be a smooth transition in SD.

I think he lasts a year in SD. Only reason I could see him returning there for another year would be based on his contract terms (which I haven't looked deeply into yet). I just don't see Edward Royal as an outside WR option (or I'd move him past Meachem)

I think Brown was a terrible blow.

1)Gates

2)Floyd

3)Brown (now injured)

4)Matthews (now injured)

5A)Meachem

5B)Royal

I think if Gates is healthy is in store for a career high year.

For purposes of thread:

Floyd 55/950/7

Meachem 50/600/5 (I think his YPC will take a tumble)

 
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'Craig_MiamiFL said:
Had Meachem ranked as the #5 receiving target before V.Brown injury. Bumped him up to #3 now, but still think it was a terrible terrible terrible terrible signing. It took the guy 25 years to learn the New Orleans offense....not sure why anyone would think it'd be a smooth transition in SD.I think he lasts a year in SD. Only reason I could see him returning there for another year would be based on his contract terms (which I haven't looked deeply into yet). I just don't see Edward Royal as an outside WR option (or I'd move him past Meachem)I think Brown was a terrible blow.1)Gates2)Floyd3)Brown (now injured)4)Matthews (now injured)5A)Meachem5B)RoyalI think if Gates is healthy is in store for a career high year.For purposes of thread: Floyd 55/950/7 Meachem 50/600/5 (I think his YPC will take a tumble)
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I like Meachem and it is hard to see how the Brown injury hurts him. Floyd will be 31 years old by the start of the season and I just find it hard to see him becoming a WR1 at this point. That leaves Meachem. The fact that he hasn't caught a ton of balls in preseason doesn't bother me--preseason is a big illusion that way. Check back last year and see how some of the top WRs did in preseason.
 
'az_prof said:
I like Meachem and it is hard to see how the Brown injury hurts him. Floyd will be 31 years old by the start of the season and I just find it hard to see him becoming a WR1 at this point. That leaves Meachem. The fact that he hasn't caught a ton of balls in preseason doesn't bother me--preseason is a big illusion that way. Check back last year and see how some of the top WRs did in preseason.
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I don't think the Brown injury hurts him. I've even bumped his #'s up as result. I simply don't think Meachem is good and he will never adjust to SD and to being a starting NFL WR.I think Brown is a superior WR to Meachem. Robert Meachem is for all intensive purposes a 28 year old rookie WR. The track record of average talent WR's changing teams in their late 20's isn't great...Robert Meachem was the obvious #1 sell this offseason. Congrats to all that sold high.
 
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'Ministry of Pain said:
What a mess
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i dont see a mess. I see an opportunity. Do I think the chargers will win alot of games with this group of WRs? No. But I do think one of these WRs will be a nice WR3 or even a strong WR2 and can be had late in drafts. I have never liked Meachem and have always thought he was overrated. I think I am going to bet on Floyd being the guy to get here. I know hes somewhat old and injury prone but he had a nice stretch last year and has played with rivers for a long time. IF he stays on the field I dont know how he does not put up at least 50-60 recs / 800-1000 rec yards / 6-8 tds. Vincent Brown might turn into the guy when he gets back but until then its floyd for me.
 
I just took Floyd in a keeper draft as my WR3.

I cant find any information on him for this offseason or preseason? Despite Royal and Brown being hurt all I can find is info on Meacham, that info being 3 targets in 2 games, 2 of which were picked off.

I was under the impression he was competing for WR1 on his team any word now that everyone is injured but Meachem?

 
They're just keeping captain brittle under wraps so he can start the regular season relatively healthy. I'm sure it'll last for at least a quarter and a half.

 
Floyd should put up pretty solid numbers as long as he is healthy. He should be the second target behind Gates in the offense.

 
floyed was crushing as the x receiver, for a healthy stretch, when vjax was out. it seems whoever gets the x spot will get viable production. whats the word on who is in that role?

 
'SexyRexy said:
Right now I think the move (redraft, huge rosters) is to draft Meachem then back with Vincent Brown much later, giving me two guys who I think can put up numbers with Rivers-who I think will rebound in a big way
Click to expand...
Changed my stance here. I'm worried about the offense overall so I don't want to burn 2 WR picks on it. I'll draft one of these guys but I won't go out of my way to do it. I prefer Floyd based on prior production here and better ADP.Wondering if JWB has thoughts on the SD offense overall and if they've changed with all of the injuries that they have suffered.
 
'Monsters of the Midway said:
'SexyRexy said:
Right now I think the move (redraft, huge rosters) is to draft Meachem then back with Vincent Brown much later, giving me two guys who I think can put up numbers with Rivers-who I think will rebound in a big way
Click to expand...
Changed my stance here. I'm worried about the offense overall so I don't want to burn 2 WR picks on it. I'll draft one of these guys but I won't go out of my way to do it. I prefer Floyd based on prior production here and better ADP.Wondering if JWB has thoughts on the SD offense overall and if they've changed with all of the injuries that they have suffered.
Click to expand...
brown could still end up being the guy. he wasnt even drafted in my league. I got Floyd as my wr3 for now though....
 
Is it too early to declare the Meachem signing to be a complete bust or am I actually late to the party? Nice to see a big play, but how much longer do we have to hear about "still working on chemistry" between him and Rivers before we conclude that there are issues bigger than chemistry? This guy is so frustrating to own in dynasty!

 
'BallparkFrank said:
Is it too early to declare the Meachem signing to be a complete bust or am I actually late to the party? Nice to see a big play, but how much longer do we have to hear about "still working on chemistry" between him and Rivers before we conclude that there are issues bigger than chemistry? This guy is so frustrating to own in dynasty!
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It makes Floyd owners happy though. There is always a bright side.
 
Yesterday's gameplan was very very conservative compared to usual Turner gameplans. He had to do it though wih all the injuries especially starting with a UDFA LT. If you expected Meachum to be a WR1, you won't be happy.

Floyd if healthy, will be the most consistent guy week in and week out.

 
'Fantasy Benchwarmer said:
I just picked up Meachum for a 2013 7th rounder. He won't start for me but needed a bye week WR. Maybe I get lucky that week.
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Yikes. Meachem is no all-star but he's an every-down WR on a pass-happy team. I saw Meachem on all the goal-line plays lined up out wide. He's going to get a few shots deep every game and have some TD opportunities. Floyd will get more consistent looks, though.
 
'Joe Summer said:
Meachem is the classic guy who does nothing for weeks and then gets 150 yards and 2 TDs while on your bench.
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Exactly. I scooped up Floyd a few rounds later than Meachem went because Floyd has a history with Rivers, and what has Meachem ever really done? I never really bought in to Meachem "replacing" Vjax. It's early still and Meachem could emerge on the Chargers, but for the prices, I'll take Floyd every time. He makes a good WR3 or flex play.
 
Malcom Floyd really is getting no love from the fantasy pundits so far this year and it really doesn't make sense to me. He clearly is the #1 receiving target on a pretty good passing team. Yes, Gates still will get a lot of looks but he isn't the player he use to be.

The ONLY question in regards to Floyd in my view is if he can stay healthy a whole year. If he does I think he will continue to post borderline WR1/2 type stats. He almost had a TD today that was ruled incomplete on the field and couldn't be overturned because it was inconclusive.

I really don't care if he is undervalued I will just keep plugging him into my lineup week after week as long as he is healthy.

Consider this. Last year even when Vincent Jackson was still there Malcom Floyd posted 698 yards and scored 5 TD's in his last 8 games played, the fact he missed 4 games in between causes a lot of people to miss that. He is just continuing on from how he finished last year and this production shouldn't be surprising anyone and it should continue.

 
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He's not gonna stay healthy all year. When healthy he should produce like a #1. Enjoy it while it lasts. Even today he had a TD robbed by the officials.

 
'BallparkFrank said:
38 points for the Chargers today and Meachem has ZERO catches! :rant:
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The Titans were playing the safeties over the top since Gates was out. Norv decided to just exploit the middle of the field with our backups. Meachum will start seeing less coverage when Matthews comes back and Gates is back on the field. The past two defenses have tried to take away our WRs.
 
Floyd is converting 66% of targets for 15.4 yards per catch. You'd think he might be getting more than 6.25 targets a game. Norv Turner is really making some odd choices this season as to how he is using his talent.

 
'Craig_MiamiFL said:
'az_prof said:
I like Meachem and it is hard to see how the Brown injury hurts him. Floyd will be 31 years old by the start of the season and I just find it hard to see him becoming a WR1 at this point. That leaves Meachem. The fact that he hasn't caught a ton of balls in preseason doesn't bother me--preseason is a big illusion that way. Check back last year and see how some of the top WRs did in preseason.
Click to expand...
I simply don't think Meachem is good and he will never adjust to SD and to being a starting NFL WR.I think Brown is a superior WR to Meachem. Robert Meachem is for all intensive purposes a 28 year old rookie WR. The track record of average talent WR's changing teams in their late 20's isn't great...Robert Meachem was the obvious #1 sell this offseason. Congrats to all that sold high.
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In addition to Vincent Brown being superior, we can add street free agent Danario Alexander to the list.Congrats to those that sold this turd and didn't buy into the '#1 WR' rubbish.
 
Chargers | Malcom Floyd takes over as Z receiver

Sat, 17 Nov 2012 19:42:50 -0800

San Diego Chargers WR Malcom Floyd has taken over as the team's "Z" receiver. The "Z" typically lines up on the same side as TE Antonio Gates, and Floyd was moved there in Week 10 against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to create mismatches and make opponents pick their poison. The position was previously manned by WR Robert Meachem. "With Antonio and I lining up next to each other, we put a strain on whatever side we're on," Floyd said.

0 Comments | Source: The San Diego Union-Tribune - Scott Bair | Share:

 
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