294 replies to this topic

[Drunken Cowboy]

I figure it is time for the new thread.

I like the Martin signing. It says clearly that they are going for it this year. I also think it is a big upgrade. Even with a down year last year Martin would have been worth about 2 more wins than Barajas. I think he will have a decent bounce back. I don't think .265 with 15 HR's is out of the question.

Next up: Find a SS.

[Balco]

I figure it is time for the new thread.

I like the Martin signing. It says clearly that they are going for it this year. I also think it is a big upgrade. Even with a down year last year Martin would have been worth about 2 more wins than Barajas. I think he will have a decent bounce back. I don't think .265 with 15 HR's is out of the question.

Next up: Find a SS.

Has there been any talk of them going after a SS? Pretty much any player would be an upgrade from what they had last year.

[Tremendous Upside]

I figure it is time for the new thread.

I like the Martin signing. It says clearly that they are going for it this year. I also think it is a big upgrade. Even with a down year last year Martin would have been worth about 2 more wins than Barajas. I think he will have a decent bounce back. I don't think .265 with 15 HR's is out of the question.

Next up: Find a SS.

He hasn't hit near .265 since 08

He has good power and is a solid defensive catcher (although his throwing arm gets wonky at times) but I'd be shocked if he's near .265

[Drunken Cowboy]

I figure it is time for the new thread.

I like the Martin signing. It says clearly that they are going for it this year. I also think it is a big upgrade. Even with a down year last year Martin would have been worth about 2 more wins than Barajas. I think he will have a decent bounce back. I don't think .265 with 15 HR's is out of the question.

Next up: Find a SS.

He hasn't hit near .265 since 08

He has good power and is a solid defensive catcher (although his throwing arm gets wonky at times) but I'd be shocked if he's near .265

His BABIP last year was unreal low, more than 60 points below his career average. Some of that had to have been bad luck.

[Drunken Cowboy]

I figure it is time for the new thread.

I like the Martin signing. It says clearly that they are going for it this year. I also think it is a big upgrade. Even with a down year last year Martin would have been worth about 2 more wins than Barajas. I think he will have a decent bounce back. I don't think .265 with 15 HR's is out of the question.

Next up: Find a SS.

Has there been any talk of them going after a SS? Pretty much any player would be an upgrade from what they had last year.

at least at the plate. I figure Barmes is probably the worst hitting regular in the bigs. However, there isn't much out there. Stephen Drew isn't very exciting. There is talk that Cleveland could have Cabera on the market, but they want a lot and he sucks in the field.

Edited by Drunken Cowboy, 01 December 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[Dr. Awesome]

Stephen Drew isn't very exciting.

He may not be sexy but it's a damn thin market. If you guys don't land somebody this offseason, Drew is going to look mighty fine come June.

But stay away from this guy, he belongs to Oakland!

[Leeroy Jenkins]

My faith has taken a toll.

[Copeman]

[monessen]

If the Bucs trade Hanrahan and Garrett Jones to Seattle for Justin Smoak and a few warm bodies, it would be cutting more salary and for control of Smoak, who I think isn't eligible for arbitration until 2014. I hate to see Hanrahan and Jones, both in line for more $$$, traded if Seattle doesn't sweeten the pot. No pun intended on recent voter referendums in Washington state.

[Drunken Cowboy]

If the Bucs trade Hanrahan and Garrett Jones to Seattle for Justin Smoak and a few warm bodies, it would be cutting more salary and for control of Smoak, who I think isn't eligible for arbitration until 2014. I hate to see Hanrahan and Jones, both in line for more $$$, traded if Seattle doesn't sweeten the pot. No pun intended on recent voter referendums in Washington state.

This trade makes no sense from either side.

[Balco]

If the Bucs trade Hanrahan and Garrett Jones to Seattle for Justin Smoak and a few warm bodies, it would be cutting more salary and for control of Smoak, who I think isn't eligible for arbitration until 2014. I hate to see Hanrahan and Jones, both in line for more $$$, traded if Seattle doesn't sweeten the pot. No pun intended on recent voter referendums in Washington state.

This trade makes no sense from either side.

Agreed. Not saying he is great, but what happens to Gabby Sanchez if the Pirates trade for Smoak?

[Drunken Cowboy]

If the Bucs trade Hanrahan and Garrett Jones to Seattle for Justin Smoak and a few warm bodies, it would be cutting more salary and for control of Smoak, who I think isn't eligible for arbitration until 2014. I hate to see Hanrahan and Jones, both in line for more $$$, traded if Seattle doesn't sweeten the pot. No pun intended on recent voter referendums in Washington state.

This trade makes no sense from either side.

Agreed. Not saying he is great, but what happens to Gabby Sanchez if the Pirates trade for Smoak?

I don't see Smoak as much of an upgrade.

[monessen]

Ostensibly, Smoak and Sanchez would platoon. But I don't look for the deal to happen unless they want a riot at the next Pirates Caravan.

Here's the Seattle newspaper link:

http://blogs.seattle...-garrett-jones/

[Balco]

Ostensibly, Smoak and Sanchez would platoon. But I don't look for the deal to happen unless they want a riot at the next Pirates Caravan.

Here's the Seattle newspaper link:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/mariners/2012/12/02/heres-a-trade-possibility-for-the-mariners-you-havent-heard-about-yet-pirates-slugger-garrett-jones/

Makes zero sense.

I think the Pirates need to get rid of Hanrahan, but for a quality prospect (reliever or hitter) under team control for the forseeable future.

[monessen]

Ostensibly, Smoak and Sanchez would platoon. But I don't look for the deal to happen unless they want a riot at the next Pirates Caravan.

Here's the Seattle newspaper link:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/mariners/2012/12/02/heres-a-trade-possibility-for-the-mariners-you-havent-heard-about-yet-pirates-slugger-garrett-jones/

Makes zero sense.

I think the Pirates need to get rid of Hanrahan, but for a quality prospect (reliever or hitter) under team control for the forseeable future.

Most definitely. But we're talking Pirates here, the team synonomous with zero sense. Once the team signed Russell Martin, they began searching for ways to keep the payroll around the 2012 level, and the tandem of Hanrahan and Jones are part of the subtraction equation. This organization will not make moves to approximate what the Brewers and Reds have by way of paying MLB talent.

But I can see them getting Hector Noesi. He's lousy, and earns under a half-million. Would fit right in until Morton is ready to return and stink again, this time for 2 million in 2013.

There's been an unfounded belief on these Pirate threads that the organization is truly committed to a competitive team with salary at least somewhat commensurate with those aforementioned rivals. The owners simply won't do it. It's fallacious to think otherwise. Look at what the do, not what they say. Coonelly said they'd spend once fans turned out. Fans turned out in enthusiastic and gratifying numbers in 2012, leaving Coonelly to back-pedal on that pledge. Now he's talking about money being put into the vastly overrated farm system that Huntington was to rebuild. Is Tim Alderson still playing ball? Any progress there? The "jewel" of the Giants' prospects that NH touted after dealing for him?

We're talking about liars here, and Buc fans are too hopeful the FO will move forward on genuinely good acquisitions. Don't hold your breath.

[jfranco77]

I like the Martin signing, and I don't like non-tendering Karstens. I don't think the Pirates can find that kind of reliable 150-ip guy for 4mil or whatever it would have cost them. But maybe I'm wrong.

I love Huntington asking the Mariners to give up Tijuan Walker for GI Jones.

Interesting article today on the projected outfield: http://triblive.com/...y#axzz2DrQeCRDu

General manager Neal Huntington said Travis Snider will get first crack at the right-field job, and Starling Marte is set in left. However, Huntington did not go so far as to say this is a make-or-break year for Tabata with the Pirates.

[monessen]

Am enjoying the way one-year wonder Grilli and his agent are stalling on signing. If it will be the Pirates, you can be sure the announcement will be just a day or so prior to the Steeler home game versus SD so as to grab a little attention as local fans read the sports page. But, we'll see.

I suspect Bill Landrum will be brought in to close once Hanrahan is gone if the price is right. Or maybe Tekulve.

[Copeman]

Link

Baseball Prospectus Releases Their Pirates Top 10 Prospects
Posted by Tim Williams on December 10, 2012 | 12 Comments

Gerrit Cole is the number one prospect in the system.
Baseball Prospectus released their top 10 prospects for the Pittsburgh Pirates system today. The article, with scouting reports on each player, can be seen here. Below are the names of their top ten.

1. RHP Gerrit Cole
2. RHP Jameson Taillon
3. CF Gregory Polanco
4. RHP Luis Heredia
5. IF/LF Alen Hanson
6. OF Josh Bell
7. C Wyatt Mathisen
8. RHP Tyler Glasnow
9. RHP Nick Kingham
10. OF Barrett Barnes

Outside of Cole and Taillon, that’s a very young system. All of the other players in the top ten have played below high-A ball. Polanco, Hanson, Kingham, and Barnes should jump to high-A this year, and some of those guys could make the jump to Double-A by the end of the year.

The common theme with most of the guys in the lower levels is that they have a lot of potential. Some of the players are ranked more on raw tools, abilities and projections, rather than results and a clear picture of their future. Other players have put up the results, but will need to have those results in the upper levels to really cement themselves as top prospects.

In his summary of the system, Jason Parks wrote “No system in baseball can boast the one-two punch of Cole and Taillon, and with talented position prospects sitting on the next tier, the Pirates have one of the most impact-heavy systems in the game.”The emergence of Polanco and Hanson added two more impact guys. No one from last year’s impact list really fell off the list. Josh Bell missed most of the year, but the tools and potential are still there. After Bell on that list, the Pirates have several guys who are just one season away from getting the recognition Hanson and Polanco received this year. That group expands beyond the ten names above, as there are breakout candidates like Dilson Herrera, Jin-De Jhang, and Clay Holmes who aren’t featured on the above list, but could easily crack the top 10 next year with a strong season.

[Copeman]

Link


Pirates, reliever Grilli agree on two-year contract
December 10, 2012 4:18 pm
By Bill Brink / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Pirates and free agent reliever Jason Grilli have agreed to terms on a two-year contract pending a physical, according to a source.

Fox Sports' Ken Rosenthal first reported the agreement.

Grilli, 36, provides another option for the back of the Pirates' bullpen in the event that the team trades closer Joel Hanrahan, who will become a free agent after the 2013 season.

Grilli struck out 90 batters in 582/3 innings this season as the Pirates' setup man. In parts of two seasons with the Pirates, Grilli struck out 127 in 91 1/3 innings with a 2.76 ERA.

The Pirates signed Grilli in July 2011. He was pitching in Class AAA for the Philadelphia Phillies organization at the time after missing the entire 2010 season because of injury.

[monessen]

Link


Pirates, reliever Grilli agree on two-year contract
December 10, 2012 4:18 pm
By Bill Brink / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Pirates and free agent reliever Jason Grilli have agreed to terms on a two-year contract pending a physical, according to a source.

Fox Sports' Ken Rosenthal first reported the agreement.

Grilli, 36, provides another option for the back of the Pirates' bullpen in the event that the team trades closer Joel Hanrahan, who will become a free agent after the 2013 season.

Grilli struck out 90 batters in 582/3 innings this season as the Pirates' setup man. In parts of two seasons with the Pirates, Grilli struck out 127 in 91 1/3 innings with a 2.76 ERA.

The Pirates signed Grilli in July 2011. He was pitching in Class AAA for the Philadelphia Phillies organization at the time after missing the entire 2010 season because of injury.

This from Rotoworld today:

ESPN's Jayson Stark reports that the Pirates continue to talk about dealing closer Joel Hanrahan.
The Pirates re-signed set-up man Jason Grilli on Monday, so talks could intensify in the coming days. Stark names the Dodgers and Tigers among potential matches. Hanrahan projects to make around $7 million in arbitration this winter and can become a free agent following the 2013 season.


With Grilli in the fold, and likely to be handed the closer role given that contract, I suspect Hanrahan, given his salary, will be dealt for a middling prospect before the season starts. But it's not as if I'm going out on a limb to say that.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can the bucs move hannrahan and Sanchez for trumbo? Angels have enough pop!

[fred_1_15301]

Can the bucs move hannrahan and Sanchez for trumbo? Angels have enough pop!

Lol no way are the Angels that dumb.

[jfranco77]

Sanchez signing with the Tigers frees up Porcello for a Hanrahan/Porcello swap.

[Balco]

Sanchez signing with the Tigers frees up Porcello for a Hanrahan/Porcello swap.

That would be a nice deal for Pittsburgh, IMO.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can the bucs move hannrahan and Sanchez for trumbo? Angels have enough pop!

Lol no way are the Angels that dumb.

I know. I was pulling for hannrahan for trumbo last year when the bucs say his value was highest. They are idiots. Tell the world you even internally have downgraded his value.

[bweiser]

heard the dodgers are interested in hanrahan. can we get dee gordon?

[jfranco77]

heard the dodgers are interested in hanrahan. can we get dee gordon?

I've thought about that, it actually makes sense for the Pirates, a decent glove, no hit SS with some kind of future potential would be something the Pirates could really use. Hanrahan is going to be expensive in arbitration so Porcello might be a pipe dream, but Dee might be more realistic.

[Copeman]

Couple more months till we see this mess on the field again, huh?

[monessen]

Cubs sign Edwin Jackson (4 yrs--$52 million). Can't believe the Bucs missed out on he, Greinke, and Josh Hamilton when the club was so close in bidding for all three.

'Tis the season to be jolly. I wonder if the Nuttings give out "jelly of the month" coupons instead of cash bonuses.

Edited by monessen, 20 December 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[jfranco77]

Pirates sign Francisco Liriano to 2yr/14mil deal.

Liriano
AJ
Wandy
J-mac
mcPherson or Locke

Rotation might be the "strength" of this team.

[fred_1_15301]

Pirates sign Francisco Liriano to 2yr/14mil deal.

Liriano
AJ
Wandy
J-mac
mcPherson or Locke

Rotation might be the "strength" of this team.

Seems like a pretty good deal. Can't complain.

[fred_1_15301]

Couple more months till we see this mess on the field again, huh?

Well lets hope that they follow recent trend and stay competitive until at least July. Nice if they could hold us over until training camp. I have my doubts.

[fred_1_15301]

This team on paper should at least push .500 again. They have an outfield with loads of potential in Cutch, Marte and Snider. Walker is solid at 2b and Pedro should be good for 30 hrs. A Jones/Sanchez platoon is serviceable (although nothing special). SS is still a gaping hole and hopefully they've improved at catcher (definitely defensively). The rotation is not great but not bad. The bullpen will be fine. This tells me that they're about average with the definite potential to break .500 if the cards fall right. The biggest problem is that I have no idea whats between the ears in most of these guys. Seems like they're a very mentally weak team.

[CrossEyed]

Hanrahan traded for...basically nothing

[Balco]

Hanrahan traded for...basically nothing

Not sure why they didn't push for Iglesias. Or Daniel Bard.

Wonder if they see Jerry Sands playing first base down the road.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Hanrahan traded for...basically nothing

Awesome. Why not sit on him if they can't get what they want? Wait for a team to get a little desperate. Front office is a joke.

[CrossEyed]

Hanrahan traded for...basically nothing

Awesome. Why not sit on him if they can't get what they want? Wait for a team to get a little desperate. Front office is a joke.

Because this is the Pirates. They needed to dump salary to pay for all of those great FAs they signed.

[monessen]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

Edited by monessen, 22 December 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

If you're not making a big splash trading a top closer, hold him and see what happens. Now what, Grilli? I can't defend these guys anymore. I'm worn out and abused.

[Balco]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

If you're not making a big splash trading a top closer, hold him and see what happens. Now what, Grilli? I can't defend these guys anymore. I'm worn out and abused.

I think Hanrahan is going to struggle big time in the AL. As much as it pains me to say.

Pirates are getting some young hitters in the deals. If 2 of Snyder, Sands, or Gabby Sanchez can turn into serviceable players, they are in good shape. Snyder and Sands both have power.

[CrossEyed]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

If you're not making a big splash trading a top closer, hold him and see what happens. Now what, Grilli? I can't defend these guys anymore. I'm worn out and abused.

I think Hanrahan is going to struggle big time in the AL. As much as it pains me to say.

Pirates are getting some young hitters in the deals. If 2 of Snyder, Sands, or Gabby Sanchez can turn into serviceable players, they are in good shape. Snyder and Sands both have power.

No offense, but fans like you are the reason this team will continue to be the joke of MLB.

[Eephus]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

If you're not making a big splash trading a top closer, hold him and see what happens. Now what, Grilli? I can't defend these guys anymore. I'm worn out and abused.

I think Hanrahan is going to struggle big time in the AL. As much as it pains me to say.

Pirates are getting some young hitters in the deals. If 2 of Snyder, Sands, or Gabby Sanchez can turn into serviceable players, they are in good shape. Snyder and Sands both have power.

No offense, but fans like you are the reason this team will continue to be the joke of MLB.

Fortunately the Marlins are around for all of our amusement.

Fantasy players always overrate closers. Hanrahan wasn't very good this year and was gone after this season. It's not a terrible return with this in mind. Melancon could be as valuable as Hanrahan this year.

[Balco]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

If you're not making a big splash trading a top closer, hold him and see what happens. Now what, Grilli? I can't defend these guys anymore. I'm worn out and abused.

I think Hanrahan is going to struggle big time in the AL. As much as it pains me to say.

Pirates are getting some young hitters in the deals. If 2 of Snyder, Sands, or Gabby Sanchez can turn into serviceable players, they are in good shape. Snyder and Sands both have power.

No offense, but fans like you are the reason this team will continue to be the joke of MLB.

Fortunately the Marlins are around for all of our amusement.

Fantasy players always overrate closers. Hanrahan wasn't very good this year and was gone after this season. It's not a terrible return with this in mind. Melancon could be as valuable as Hanrahan this year.

That's what I was getting at. (not sure why crosseyed thinks I am a Pirate fan either). Hanrahan's walk rate is concerning as a Sox fan. I was actually pretty excited they got Sands in the deal with the Dodgers. Was hoping to see what he was capable of with a full complement of at bats. The Red Sox decided instead to go with older, more expensive options, though.

[Balco]

Best line I've heard today on the Hanrahan trade: Pirates wanted to deal him in the worst way, so they did.

Any one that believes the team is better today as a result of this swap with Boston is beyond apologist-diehard. We seem to be the new Pawtucket----Jason Bay, Adam LaRoche, and now a proven MLB closer. And for what?

You know, signing Liriano for nearly 7 mil a year doesn't immediately necessitate a salary dump of 7 million to compensate. What was the big hurry?

If you're not making a big splash trading a top closer, hold him and see what happens. Now what, Grilli? I can't defend these guys anymore. I'm worn out and abused.

I think Hanrahan is going to struggle big time in the AL. As much as it pains me to say.

Pirates are getting some young hitters in the deals. If 2 of Snyder, Sands, or Gabby Sanchez can turn into serviceable players, they are in good shape. Snyder and Sands both have power.

No offense, but fans like you are the reason this team will continue to be the joke of MLB.

No offense taken. And I am not a Pirate fan. The Pirates will continue to be a joke if they decide to throw money and long term deals at mediocre players. They are on the right track after years of horrible farm systems. Tallon and Cole are top of the rotation prospects. And there is even more pitching behind them. It's the Offense that is a problem. And jettisoning an overrated closer for a guy who has had a lot of success in the minors and is under team control is not a bad thing. If Snyder hits 25-30 homers, and Sands does the same, I think pirates fans would be pretty happy.

And call me insane, but that pitching staff is not bad.

[Northern Voice]

The guy in my avatar spells his name with an I not a Y.

/spellingnazi

[Balco]

The guy in my avatar spells his name with an I not a Y.

/spellingnazi

Oops. Sorry. I think Travis Snider hits 25 homers. Travis Snyder? 32.

[monessen]

The Red Sox were so impressed with Sands they immediately flipped him in a deal for an "overrated closer" with a high walk rate. Anybody check Liriano's walk rate? And the Twins were so high on Liriano's future that Minnesota dealt him to a team within their division. Menwhile, our overrated closer made the NL All-Star team the past 2 years.

Look. Plain and simple, this was a salary dump. The team is trimming where they can. Karstens was due a raise but not tendered. The cover story was concern over Karstens's health. Yet Charlie Morton, who isn't healthy and has been less effective than JK the past 2 seasons, was retained. Why? Morton is cheaper. If Garrett Jones is next to go for a dubious return, the pattern will be even more obvious. And what does Mark Malancon bring to an MLB roster? Is it even confirmed he's in the deal?

As to the potential of the recent acquisitions, Bobby Crosby, Jeff Clement, and Lastings Milledge were all perceived as young talented guys whose progress(es) stalled but the Bucs thought those players warranted another shot. Deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Drunken Cowboy]

If Mark Melancon is included, I think this was probably a pretty good deal.

[Balco]

If Mark Melancon is included, I think this was probably a pretty good deal.

Oof. I did not hear that. What are the Red Sox doing!?!

[fred_1_15301]

Putting aside the merits of the deal, the thing that sucks for all of these guys is that they go from one dysfunctional team to another God bless them