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****OFFICIAL****Minnesota Vikings offseason thread


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#1 snellman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

Ok, now that they are out, it is time to start building on this very promising season. With another draft like last year and possibly a couple free agent signings this team could make some more noise next year. What are your thoughts on Harvin? Should they give him his contract or trade him for what they can get? The one thing that really bothers me with this situation is the fact he has not been at the team facility at all since he was put on IR. With his team in the middle of a late season run you would think he would have liked to been there, but maybe I am over reacting. Even though he is a very special player, I say get what you can out of him and use the money saved on his contract towards a FA WR. It would be interesting to see Jennings in Purple IMO and I don't think the Packers will make an effort to resign him. It was a fun season (almost more fun to watch than 09) and I can't wait for next year. :excited: :football:
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#2 Maelstrom

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

I like the way they are building the team, definitely need to work with Ponder in the offseason. I also would love to see them bring in a veteran backup QB that is also willing to be humble enough to mentor Ponder and Bethel-Johnson.

I'd rather see the Vikes hold onto Harvin, but the fact this is his last year under contract is tough - do you pay him, even though he may be disgruntled, or do you trade him for what you can get? If you can get equivalent talent, I go with trade (i.e. the rumored Fitz, which is probably unlikely) but I think in the end Harvin will be in purple with a new contract and hopefully he won't be a problem child.

They still need to upgrade the WR corp regardless of what happens with Harvin. I'd be really good with Jennings/Wallace, Harvin and Wright as the 3 guys, with Jenkins, Burton still having a year on their contracts. Not sure if the Vikes will actually pay up for both Harvin and another premium FA WR though - Wallace has turned down $10m/year last offseason and Jennings is currently making $7.5m/year (with prorated bonus), and probably wants to be paid more than that. There seem to be quite a few WR in the draft this year, so regardless of who the #1 is (Harvin or someone else), I wouldn't be surprised to see them just look to draft one in the first few rounds.

I like what the young guys have been doing in the DBs, but I think they can still upgrade there, and need to start preparing for Winfield to be gone.

Just putting this here for reference, but the cap looks like it'll be around 121m in 2013. In 2012, the Vikes were around 105m. I haven't spent much time looking at what the 2013 cap picture looks like, but this article gives a quick rundown on the numbers. Also, cap and contract situations for the Vikings: http://www.spotrac.c...nesota-vikings/
Go Vikings!

#3 mr roboto

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

Ponder gets another year in my book. His receiving options are below average (especially without Harvin). Obviously AP has a few more years of elite production and it would be tempting to bring in a vet to see what we could do with him, but there are no Favre lighting in a bottle guys out there. Defense was a surprising development. They got picked apart by Rodgers in the first round but compared to 2011 a big difference. Great draft with Smith, Wright, Khalil and Walsh. I hope they get another good one this April.

Come on guys. He threw eight innings of one hit ball and needed someone to close it out for him. So what if the closer could have been a fifth grader?


#4 Biabreakable

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

Terrific season by the Vikings who exceeded everyones expectations. I think this was largely fueled by a last place schedule and a full offseason program, as well as a outstanding draft. It will be more difficult for the Vikings to repeat 10 wins next season than it was this year but it certainly is possible. The most impressive part of this season is how Ponder and the defense responded to having their backs to the wall and winning out the last 4 games. Ponder showed some maturity and improvement over that span as did the defense. There are still a lot of holes in the roster that need upgrades. The Vikings will not be drafting from such favorable position this year as last but hopefully they can find some impact players in need positions. The biggest needs are WR,LB,DB,DT,OG. Much of this will hinge on who the Vikings re-sign as well as who they can add in free agency. Players I would most like to see the Vikings retain are Kevin Williams, Phil Loadholt, Jamarca Sanford, Jerome Felton and Jasper Brinkley. I think the Vikings can let the rest of their free agents go and possibly cut some bloated contracts like Carlsons and Charlie Johnsons. The biggest decision is going to be what the Vikings do with Percy Harvin. Harvin is a great player and I would love the Vikings to be able to sign him long term. However if he does not want to be here then I do not think they can do that and should trade him. Harvin will demand some big money and I think he is worth it however the Vikings do not have enough cap room to afford more than one big money WR. So it will be either Harvin or someone else. As discussed in the season thread I think if the Vikings do trade Harvin the best player to seek in return for him would be Larry Fitzgerald. Some consider this to be unlikely but considering Harvin has a very reasonable contract in 2013 and is 5 years younger than Fitz I do not think such a trade is a bad deal for the Cardinals, it may actually be in their favor. I think Fitzgeralds skill set fits what the Vikings and Ponder want to do on offense better than any other WR in the league. Would love to see him play for the Vikings. Fred Evans played really well at NT in rotation this season and that is a wonderful thing to see. Given Kevin Williams age however I think the Vikings need to add a new DT this offseason even if they do re-sign Williams. Really the Vikings have needed to add a DT for the last 3 seasons. The outstanding play of Griffen has the Vikings pretty loaded at DE now which is great, they just need another DT to keep this front 4 as one of the better groups in the league. I really really hope the Vikings do not bring back Erin Henderson. He has failed so many times in coverage and against play action this season. He does not deserve to be starting. I have seen teams target him with great success all season. What free agents will be out there that are worth signing? I think the Vikings should take the same approach to free agency as they did last year. Target players who are young enough to be factors for the team for multiple seasons and try not to break the bank to get anyone. I think Peterson gives us an edge as I think a lot of free agents would like to play with him as a team mate for a team that has shown it really takes care of players as the Vikings did this year. The draft looks to have a lot of line talent on both sides of the ball but lacks skill position stars. The Vikings should still draft BPA in the 1st-2nd round and not reach for a lesser talent just to fill a need. Take advantage of what the draft has to offer and think long term. This may mean the Vikings best target in the 1st round will be defensive or offensive line. There is a lot of depth at WR but none of them are far and away better than the rest of the pack, so there should be good WR available in later rounds. These WR may not be true WR1 type prospects, which the Vikings really need, but you have to work with with what is available.

Edited by Biabreakable, 09 January 2013 - 08:31 PM.

"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#5 Maelstrom

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

2013 opponents:
Home - GB, DET, CHI, PHI, WSH, PIT*, CLE, and CAR.

Away - GB, DET, CHI, DAL, NYG, CIN, BAL, and SEA.

* The 2013 Vikings home game vs. the Steelers will take place in London on Sunday, September 29.
Go Vikings!

#6 Beo

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

I think we should start off with cutting alot of dead money right off the bat like Carlson, Jenkins, and Charlie Johnson to free up money for free agents. Next step is resigning Felton, Kevin Williams, AJ Jefferson, Loadholt, and maybe Schwartz/Berger to keep some experienced offensive line depth. The rest can walk and that includes Brinkley and Henderson as both are terrible and both should be replaced by free agency or the draft. Next with the money we have cleared bring in at least 3 starters through free agency. First free agent I would say to go after would be Andy Levitre LG of the Bills. Upgrading the LG would would give us arguably the best Offensive Line in the NFL and they all would be young enough to play with each other for years to come. Secondly I would get a OLB than can rush the passer and stop the run and my choice would be Paul Kruger OLB of the Ravens. I love this guy! He is a throwback player and he instantly upgrades our Defense and would fit perfectly with players like Allen and Greenway. Lastly the 3rd Free agent I would go after heavy would be Sean Smith CB of the Dolphins. Smith is young and big and paired with Cook and Robinson make a very good young CB trio. Let's face it Winfield has slowed considerably. He was beaten like a drum on some routes yesterday and if he still wants to play for a year or 2 he needs to move to Safety whether he likes it or not (Ronde Barber did it so can he) and he would be an upgrade over Sanford/Raymond so we upgrade the whole Defensive backfield with the signing of Smith. Ok so we have cutoff some dead weight and filled in 3 starting Positions with Free Agents and upgraded at Safety by moving Winfield there. Now with the draft I think with our 1st through 4th round (2 picks in 4th round) we go WR, LB, WR, DT, S. Some WR's I like in the first would be Cordarelle Patterson, Terrance Williams, Deandre Hopkins, and Justin Hunter. Some LB's I like in the 2nd Round would be Khassem Greene, Kevin Minter, Chase Thomas, and Arthur Brown. Other positions just go best available but those are just a couple of guys I would be happy with in the first 2 rounds and I think we could still get some really good players in the 3rd and 4th. Well I know alot of this isnt likely to happen but fun to think about. I guess we have nothing but time now for each of ust to give out opinion on helping our Vikes out for the upcoming season. I hope others will weigh in on their opinions.
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#7 The Kuhn

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:31 PM

If they trade Harvin, I would really like to see them go hard for Amendola. Say what you will about the guy, but he's a multi-dimensional talent that this team needs, unless they commit to making Peterson a full-time Westbrook-clone and go nuts with giving him receptions. If they keep Harvin, I'd like to see either Fitz or Danario Alexander (SD). I highly doubt ARI would let Fitz go with all the other turmoil going on there, but the size and physical ability of a guy like Alexander (when healthy) really would go a long way to giving Ponder more confidence. If Ponder can't throw the ball in the vicinity of Alexander and Rudolph's wingspans, he's not a starting caliber QB in the NFL period. The Webb experiment obviously didn't pan out, so an upgrade at backup (or at least someone to push Ponder) should still be a priority- maybe Stanton from IND or (brace for it...) bringing Tavaris back could be a decent #2 with experience with rushing/passing abilities. Other lesser needs- punter (Kluwe's done) and if Harvin goes, a dynamic threat for KR/PR. This team's good enough that if they can get a special teams or defensive score in a given game, they can hang with most teams- they just don't do well when they start falling behind.

#8 snogger

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:41 AM

I think if the Vikings can find the right trade for Harvin you do so. Something just doesn't seem right between him and the Vikings. The fact he disappeared after going on IR is troubling. Unless you are in rehab or stuck in a hospital, his experience could have been used to help mentor the other WR's out there. No idea if it was his doing or the coaching staffs but something is odd.

For those wondering here is a link to available Free agents

Between Free agency and the draft, IMO, they need to get better LB's, I'd like to see they go after Jennings, Wallace, Bowe or Amendola and draft a youngster or two.

Think they absolutely have to draft a QB later in the draft..They cannot go into next season with Webb as the backup :X

As I mentioned before I'd love tho think the last few games from Ponder were a showing of his improvement.. But he had so many Horrid games throughout the season I'm still not sure I want to go into next season with him designated as the starter without any competition.

You have to think with the way Wilson has performed Flynn will be on the trading block.. Maybe they'd be interested in Harvin?
At the same time we have no idea if the game(s) he played with the packers are who he is, or if he just got lucky. Especially considering he was passed over for a rookie before the season even started.

Wouldn't mind them waving :bye: to Musgrave, but I don't think Fraizer will make that move.

:popcorn:

#9 Biabreakable

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

I wonder if this could be merged with last seasons thread so that all this stuff was in one place?
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#10 Maelstrom

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:20 PM

I think if the Vikings can find the right trade for Harvin you do so. Something just doesn't seem right between him and the Vikings. The fact he disappeared after going on IR is troubling. Unless you are in rehab or stuck in a hospital, his experience could have been used to help mentor the other WR's out there. No idea if it was his doing or the coaching staffs but something is odd.

http://min.scout.com/2/1254227.html

Vikings receiver Percy Harvin hasn’t been in contact with Leslie Frazier or Adrian Peterson of late, but the team’s medical staff has been monitoring his rehab in Florida. Plus, Christian Ponder is dealing with an elbow injury and other injury updates from the Vikings and Packers.
Vikings receiver Percy Harvin hasn’t been around Winter Park lately, but the team’s medical staff continues to monitor his rehabilitation from an ankle injury suffered Nov. 4 that landed him on injured reserve.

Harvin has been rehabilitating in Florida. The fact that he hasn’t been at the Vikings practice facility has led to speculation about a strained relationship between head coach Leslie Frazier and Harvin, but Frazier said Harvin’s location for his rehab his up to him.


Go Vikings!

#11 Beo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:24 AM

I have a feeling that with Te'o's performance on Monday night that he is going to drop in the draft far enough that it might not take much to trade up to get him. Anyone else think that Spielman is dialed in on him? I was a fan of going up in the draft and drafting Te'o but watching him Monday night against those big NFL size offensive lineman and running backs he looked slow and a bit small/weak. I know anyone can have a bad game but what is everyone else that watched the game thinking about Te'o now?
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#12 BigJim®

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

I'm really looking forward to this offseason because it does feel like the Vikes are much closer than entering last offseason. Ranking my areas of need:QB: I'll probably get a lot of flack putting this first, but I'm not sold on Ponder even after the last 4 weeks. It's actually humorous to me that our standards are so low that his final game vs. Green Bay has practically reached fabled status. JMHO, 234 yards passing against a defense focused on the run is pedestrian by NFL standards. But it's great by Ponder standards, and so he's the 2013 shoe in? People seem to be focusing on 4 straight wins, but in the prior 3 weeks, when AP ran for 600+ yards, Ponder passed for 91, 131 and 174 yards. Really comes down to whether we should strive for a difference making QB or settle for a guy who can win with 91-175 yard passing outbursts when he doesn't make catastrophic mistakes. I'm not sure what to make of Webb other than a sense that Musgrave hasn't coached him very well. Webb looked a lot better against Philly in 2010 and Washington in 2011 than he did in preseason and playoffs this season. He looked as lost as Ponder running Musgrave's offense, which seems to be the common denominator.WR: Obviously, a lot of help is needed here. It's a shame that Childs had the horrific injury because he would have made a difference IMHO. Need to go back to the drawing board here and chase the Vincent Jackson of 2013 FA that we should have pursued last offseason.LB: Big upgrades needed here, other than Greenway's position. Brinkley & Henderson seemed very inconsistent, against both pass and runs, and are maybe better suited for lesser roles. I think this defense could be great with above average tackling LBs.OG: I was dissapointed with this position despite our rushing production. I was expecting more from Fusco after hearing what a mauler he was, but he seemed easily abused in pass protection, as did our entire interior OL. It's going to be tough to teach a guy like Ponder to step up into the pocket with that interior pass protection.OC: As mentioned in the QB topic, I'm unconvinced that our QBs are comfortable in his offense. Even Matt Ryan seemed to come out of his shell a bit this season without Musgrave. At first blush Musgrave is similar to Childress, in that gets a lot of credit for prior coaching of a top tier QB (McNabb/Ryan) and really strong supporting positional players (Roddy, Julio, Gonzales, Turner). Seems possible his offense requires stars to succeed, which is problematic here in the present, and probably 2013. I also wonder what extent his offense required Viking WRs to be akin to Julio/Roddy to succeed. Other than the first drive in the playoffs, he did not do a good job game-planning to utilize Webb's unique skills. If Webb is going to be coached in that manner, he's as useless at backup QB as he is at WR. It puzzles me that we decided to keep Webb over Rosenfels to begin with if that was the plan.

Edited by BigJim®, 09 January 2013 - 09:48 AM.

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#13 tietzjd

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

WR: Obviously, a lot of help is needed here. It's a shame that Childs had the horrific injury because he would have made a difference IMHO. Need to go back to the drawing board here and chase the Vincent Jackson of 2013 FA that we should have pursued last offseason.OG: I was dissapointed with this position despite our rushing production. I was expecting more from Fusco after hearing what a mauler he was, but he seemed easily abused in pass protection, as did our entire interior OL. It's going to be tough to teach a guy like Ponder to step up into the pocket with that interior pass protection.

How much better would Ponder be if these 2 area's improve. That's the big question on wither we go ater QB like Smith or just good backup. Better Protection, Jennigs and 1 Round WR to go with Percy and Wright.

#14 BigJim®

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:34 AM

WR: Obviously, a lot of help is needed here. It's a shame that Childs had the horrific injury because he would have made a difference IMHO. Need to go back to the drawing board here and chase the Vincent Jackson of 2013 FA that we should have pursued last offseason.OG: I was dissapointed with this position despite our rushing production. I was expecting more from Fusco after hearing what a mauler he was, but he seemed easily abused in pass protection, as did our entire interior OL. It's going to be tough to teach a guy like Ponder to step up into the pocket with that interior pass protection.

How much better would Ponder be if these 2 area's improve. That's the big question on wither we go ater QB like Smith or just good backup. Better Protection, Jennigs and 1 Round WR to go with Percy and Wright.

Yeah, that's the big question. My own $.02 considered that to some extent and still concluded Ponder just makes poor/late decisions, has bad mechanics, and maybe would produce like a pedestrian QB regardless. I see the same lack of confidence and mechanics in Ponder that I saw in Tarvaris. You put a guy like Tarvaris in Seattle with a clean slate, and he still performs like Tarvaris. You put a more confident guy like Russell Wilson in that same Seattle offense, and he tosses 26 TDs and looks like the straw that stirs the drink. I'll be the first to say I could be wrong on Ponder. Really unfortunate IMHO that the Vikes went into 2012 without the right WR tools to help Ponder in a very critical year for his development. That $25M spent on Carlson could have been much better used toward WR.
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#15 Donnybrook

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

Vikings have the 4th youngest roster in the NFL. Spielman has shown a real commitment to keeping the roster young. Last year, for example, the Vikings showed much more interest in free agent Peirre Garcon than Reggie Wayne. There has been a lot of talk about Jennings but I am not sure if he fits into the Vikings plans.

#16 The Kuhn

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

WR: Obviously, a lot of help is needed here. It's a shame that Childs had the horrific injury because he would have made a difference IMHO. Need to go back to the drawing board here and chase the Vincent Jackson of 2013 FA that we should have pursued last offseason.OG: I was dissapointed with this position despite our rushing production. I was expecting more from Fusco after hearing what a mauler he was, but he seemed easily abused in pass protection, as did our entire interior OL. It's going to be tough to teach a guy like Ponder to step up into the pocket with that interior pass protection.

How much better would Ponder be if these 2 area's improve. That's the big question on wither we go ater QB like Smith or just good backup. Better Protection, Jennigs and 1 Round WR to go with Percy and Wright.

Yeah, that's the big question. My own $.02 considered that to some extent and still concluded Ponder just makes poor/late decisions, has bad mechanics, and maybe would produce like a pedestrian QB regardless. I see the same lack of confidence and mechanics in Ponder that I saw in Tarvaris. You put a guy like Tarvaris in Seattle with a clean slate, and he still performs like Tarvaris. You put a more confident guy like Russell Wilson in that same Seattle offense, and he tosses 26 TDs and looks like the straw that stirs the drink. I'll be the first to say I could be wrong on Ponder. Really unfortunate IMHO that the Vikes went into 2012 without the right WR tools to help Ponder in a very critical year for his development. That $25M spent on Carlson could have been much better used toward WR.

The unfortunate thing about the Webb start in the playoffs was not only that he had no playing time under his belt last season, but that Ponder knows he has the starter job locked up with no threats behind him. They not only need to bring in a competent #2 to back him up, but to make him accountable for the level of his play.

#17 mr roboto

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:33 AM

IMO Ponder's ceiling is Hasselbeck/Schaub level.

Come on guys. He threw eight innings of one hit ball and needed someone to close it out for him. So what if the closer could have been a fifth grader?


#18 encaitar

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:12 PM

IMO Ponder's ceiling is Hasselbeck/Schaub level.

If Ponder could play at that level in the next couple years, then the Vikings can win the Superbowl. There still doesn't seem to be very much respect for the team from around the league, but the Vikings had the 4th hardest strength of schedule in the NFL this year and the hardest of any playoff team. The way they played the last 4 weeks of the season shows that they can play with anyone if they could see a little more out of the QB position. I am worried that Ponder never gets there, not necessarily because he lacks the skill to, but because he lacks the support to. Even should the team upgrade WR and OG this offseason, I don't see them getting rid of Musgrave after a playoff season and I really have 0 confidence that he can develop QBs. It's been mentioned here already, but what Musgrave has done to Joe Webb is almost criminal. Webb was a guy with a unique skillset that showed flashes of brilliance in his spot duties. Two years under Musgrave and he's been turned into the worst pocket QB I've ever seen. Why take away the part of his game that made him special? It makes no sense. If they wanted a pocket passer they never should've gone with Webb at QB. Now it just feels like the Vikings wasted 3 years of special athletic talent that they could've used teaching him route trees, working on hands, etc.Anyway, this offseason is another important one. This is a more difficult process than last year. The Viking fans have had a taste and won't accept a 6-10 season next year after this past one. To avoid that, Ponder does need to take a step forward and the Vikings need to find more talent to put around him. I like where our defense is heading. I think Smith, Cook, and Robinson are 3/5ths of what could become a great secondary if they can find two more dynamic young players. I echo the thoughts about the LBers. Henderson and Brinkley aren't good enough to play the style of defense we play. They both make plays from time to time, but they also both seem to let big plays happen around them. We would probably be ok with one of them starting, but need to upgrade at least on those positions if we are ever gonna slow down the catches given up in the middle of the field so consistently. All I know is that I'm actually looking forward to the offseason with a little hope. We shall see, but the future looks brighter than a year ago anyways.

#19 Herb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

A couple of questions/ observations for those of you that follow the personnel side more closely than I do:What are the thoughts on resigning Loadholt? I wonder if his play this season was a result of his contract status and if he might not have a little McKinnie in him. I'm sure he'll command a massive salary- is he worth it?Next, any chance the Vikes can get their hands on Te'o or a similar MLB to anchor the cover 2? Seems like a dominant MLB is a large hole in this defense and would especially help against teams like GB that pick us apart in the middle portion of the field when guys like Henderson are in.

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#20 Maelstrom

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

QB: I'll probably get a lot of flack putting this first, but I'm not sold on Ponder even after the last 4 weeks. It's actually humorous to me that our standards are so low that his final game vs. Green Bay has practically reached fabled status.

I agree with most of what you posted, but with QB, is isn't that people don't think it's a position of need, but people are resigned to the fact that Ponder is the unquestioned starter per the coaches next year. Our best hope is that they bring in a mentor and serious backup QB to help him out as well and make sure there is someone behind him that can play. The other thing is that he is only a 2nd year player. I know a lot of people are spoiled watching the Wilson/RGIII/Luck/Newton's of the NFL, but we knew coming in Ponder wasn't in that class and wouldn't be ready to go right away. I'm willing to give him another year, maybe even 2, to continue developing, as long as he continues to improve.
Go Vikings!

#21 Biabreakable

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

A couple of questions/ observations for those of you that follow the personnel side more closely than I do:What are the thoughts on resigning Loadholt? I wonder if his play this season was a result of his contract status and if he might not have a little McKinnie in him. I'm sure he'll command a massive salary- is he worth it?

I think Loadholt is a quality player who did improve this season. This may be partly the contract year motivating him, but after the season that Peterson just put up I do not see that motivation going away after a big contract. Loadholt was our most penalized lineman so he still needs to work on that. I did think for the most part he really improved as a pass blocker this season however, perhaps some as a run blocker as well given how well AD did this season. I think he is an important part of the offense and plays at a high enough level for us to invest in other positions. Of course the final decision about if we re-sign him will still hinge on money. Loadholt may want too much money and some other team might be willing to pay him. This gets tied into the long term planning of the salary cap. Loadholt is going to make a lot of money. I hope he stays with the Vikings, the RT position is very important, with that position solidified the Vikings only need to work on the guards and can focus more resources to other positions than the offensive line.I honestly do not know how this will pan out. The Vikings tried to extend Loadholt early on last season but the talks fell through. This tells me they reached a price line that the Vikings were not willing to pay at that time. Perhaps they are willing now. But Loadholt is likely getting paid more now than he would have then.If the Vikings do sign Loadholt I think that puts them out of the running for top FA linemen such as Andy Levitre. Maybe I am wrong but I think that becomes a lot of money tied up on the line that could be used elsewhere, so I think that means the Vikings compare the value of Loadholt to FA linemen as part of the decision. I would like Loadholt to stay with the Vikings. Having continuity on the offensive line makes the unit better as a whole and AD has done a lot of damage running off of right side plays, part of that is because of Loadholt.The Vikings could cut Charlie Johnson to partially offset the increased cost for Loadholt. I recall the Vikings activated a lineman from the practice squad around week 15 or something. Will try to look up who later. But the reporter asks Frazier if another team was looking to pick this guy up, and the look on Fraziers face told volumes. Frazier just said "this guy is a Viking" so that tells me another team was looking to pick him up. The Vikings must have a plan B for Loadholt and likely for Johnson as well. I think it is a lot easier to replace Johnson than Loadholt.

Next, any chance the Vikes can get their hands on Te'o or a similar MLB to anchor the cover 2? Seems like a dominant MLB is a large hole in this defense and would especially help against teams like GB that pick us apart in the middle portion of the field when guys like Henderson are in.

I wish I knew. Seems like Te'o would be a great fit with Harrison and the Vikings need to upgrade LB. I think Brinkley is worth keeping more than Henderson despite his limitations. The Vikings may be losing Singletary from the coaching staff this offseason unfortunitly. Whatever the Vikings do the LB position needs to be upgraded. The upgrade needs to be a LB who can play in the nickle defense and only plan for Brinkley being a 2 down MLB. Henderson is hopeless is coverage. It was painful to watch team after team exploit that weakness all season.

Edited by Biabreakable, 09 January 2013 - 08:28 PM.

"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#22 Donnybrook

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

...
I wish I knew. Seems like Te'o would be a great fit with Harrison and the Vikings need to upgrade LB. I think Brinkley is worth keeping more than Henderson despite his limitations. The Vikings may be losing Singletary from the coaching staff this offseason unfortunitly.

Whatever the Vikings do the LB position needs to be upgraded.

I agree. Brinkley is worth re-signing if the price is right. I don't know if we have to chase a LB in the early rounds when we have more pressing needs ie DB, WR, and QB.

#23 Biabreakable

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

QB: I'll probably get a lot of flack putting this first, but I'm not sold on Ponder even after the last 4 weeks. It's actually humorous to me that our standards are so low that his final game vs. Green Bay has practically reached fabled status.

I agree with most of what you posted, but with QB, is isn't that people don't think it's a position of need, but people are resigned to the fact that Ponder is the unquestioned starter per the coaches next year. Our best hope is that they bring in a mentor and serious backup QB to help him out as well and make sure there is someone behind him that can play. The other thing is that he is only a 2nd year player. I know a lot of people are spoiled watching the Wilson/RGIII/Luck/Newton's of the NFL, but we knew coming in Ponder wasn't in that class and wouldn't be ready to go right away. I'm willing to give him another year, maybe even 2, to continue developing, as long as he continues to improve.

I pretty much agree. I am impressed with what Ponder did the last 3 games under a lot of pressure and against some good teams with quality defense.Considering the WR Ponder had to work with he did pretty well. I think he had 120 QB Rating in the last game, against the Packers who have some decent defensive backs and the Bears who certainly have some good DBs although their top corner did not play. Of course Peterson makes things much easier for Ponder but Peterson is still going to be the focal point of the offense, so that is going to be there for Ponder. I think if the Vikings could get a quality possession WR to be the man on slants, outs and comebacks, the Vikings can move the chains with Ponder and keep the game plan pretty safe. I doubt Ponder will ever be a great QB statistically at least compared to other QBs in the league who have offenses built around them. Ponder is only in his 2nd season and the team is built around AD not Ponder. That is going to take time, some drafts, the players are not there right now nor is the coaching philosophy/game plan built for Ponder to throw a lot. Vikings football is about running the ball and playing good defense/special teams. I love it. It is the opposite of the DaKnee Green years.Ponder may not be the long term answer for the position but he is better than anything available in free agency or the draft I think, unless there is a very good rookie QB in this class? From the little I have read this QB class is not that good. Any QB who would be better than Ponder will not be there at pick 23. If Ponder does not improve (I think he will as will the supporting cast of receivers around him over the next 3 seasons) then the Vikings can look at other options next year when there will likely be better ones. If Ponder does fail over the next season he could end up being a very good backup QB eventually if he will still be useful to the team. The Vikings can win with him I think as long as the running game is real.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#24 Biabreakable

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

I like where our defense is heading. I think Smith, Cook, and Robinson are 3/5ths of what could become a great secondary if they can find two more dynamic young players. I echo the thoughts about the LBers. Henderson and Brinkley aren't good enough to play the style of defense we play. They both make plays from time to time, but they also both seem to let big plays happen around them. We would probably be ok with one of them starting, but need to upgrade at least on those positions if we are ever gonna slow down the catches given up in the middle of the field so consistently.

I think Sanford is worth having because he plays gunner very well. He has great speed and decent tackling ability. He may become better in coverage later on in his career if the Vikings keep him. I agree he may not be good enough in coverage to be what you want starting at safety though.Free agents at safety Jairus Byrd or Dashon Goldson I guess would be worth a look. The Vikings need to get better with their inside coverage. Safety and Linebackers are needed to do that. I do not see any coverage LB on the market looking at Snoggers top 50 list. Maybe Audie Cole can compete for playing time after a season with the program? There does not seem to be much help from free agency so it may need to be from the draft.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#25 Chaz McNulty

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:58 PM


...
I wish I knew. Seems like Te'o would be a great fit with Harrison and the Vikings need to upgrade LB. I think Brinkley is worth keeping more than Henderson despite his limitations. The Vikings may be losing Singletary from the coaching staff this offseason unfortunitly.

Whatever the Vikings do the LB position needs to be upgraded.

I agree. Brinkley is worth re-signing if the price is right. I don't know if we have to chase a LB in the early rounds when we have more pressing needs ie DB, WR, and QB.

Hopefully they can fill the WR hole through free agency. It seems like most rookie WR's take two or three years to become useful (obvious exceptions excluded). I don't think they will find QB help in the draft unless they get lucky (Russell Wilson's are not the norm). Ponder could end up being a top 5-15 QB (just need to give him a chance). They really need to address their backup QB though.

I would chase the defensive positions with the early round picks. I think that it can bring more immediate results.

#26 Donnybrook

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:45 PM



...
I wish I knew. Seems like Te'o would be a great fit with Harrison and the Vikings need to upgrade LB. I think Brinkley is worth keeping more than Henderson despite his limitations. The Vikings may be losing Singletary from the coaching staff this offseason unfortunitly.

Whatever the Vikings do the LB position needs to be upgraded.

I agree. Brinkley is worth re-signing if the price is right. I don't know if we have to chase a LB in the early rounds when we have more pressing needs ie DB, WR, and QB.

Hopefully they can fill the WR hole through free agency. It seems like most rookie WR's take two or three years to become useful (obvious exceptions excluded). I don't think they will find QB help in the draft unless they get lucky (Russell Wilson's are not the norm). Ponder could end up being a top 5-15 QB (just need to give him a chance). They really need to address their backup QB though.

I would chase the defensive positions with the early round picks. I think that it can bring more immediate results.

Not a great year for free agent WRs. Jennings, Bowe, Wallace and Amedola are the biggest names. Teams may choose to use the franchise tag as well. Brandon Gibson might be an under the radar player but with such a underwhelming group even he will get paid.

Vikings are committed to Ponder so I am assuming they don't look at a QB until the third day of the draft. I guess I should be happy that Webb didn't perform well. They might not have addressed the position at all in this draft. They definitely have to get very lucky to get someone competitent that deep in the draft.

#27 snogger

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:24 AM



QB: I'll probably get a lot of flack putting this first, but I'm not sold on Ponder even after the last 4 weeks. It's actually humorous to me that our standards are so low that his final game vs. Green Bay has practically reached fabled status.

I agree with most of what you posted, but with QB, is isn't that people don't think it's a position of need, but people are resigned to the fact that Ponder is the unquestioned starter per the coaches next year. Our best hope is that they bring in a mentor and serious backup QB to help him out as well and make sure there is someone behind him that can play. The other thing is that he is only a 2nd year player. I know a lot of people are spoiled watching the Wilson/RGIII/Luck/Newton's of the NFL, but we knew coming in Ponder wasn't in that class and wouldn't be ready to go right away. I'm willing to give him another year, maybe even 2, to continue developing, as long as he continues to improve.

That is a good point... except.. There were so many games this year where he looked like he was regressing, rather than improving.
Horrible decisions ( the 2 Int's at Green bay were beyond :X ) and the numerous under 100 yards passing games.

I just feel we are onto yet another few years of the "T.J" rodeo... AKA... "he is improving, working hard in the off season and you should see some of the throws he is making in practice!!! :excited:

Only to get to the Regular season and have him lay a few more under 100 yard passing games.. I hope I'm wrong and have to come back into this thread to wear the :bag:

#28 BigJim®

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:28 AM

I hope I'm wrong and have to come back into this thread to wear the :bag:

I too would be glad to be embarrassingly wrong. Ponder having a good last game and being injured for the playoff game was my worst case scenario - as a skeptic who hoped he'd be judged on a full body of work. I have come to terms with the reality he basically bought himself another full year with that lone last impression.
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#29 Biabreakable

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

I have been looking at free agent options at LB and I wonder what you guys think of signing Philip Wheeler from the Raiders? The Raiders met with him Jan 4th and made a statement that they want to re-sign him. I have not watched the Raiders much so have no opinion about him right now but he seems like an upgrade from Henderson/Brinkley in the nickle and base defense.His numbers look pretty solid and he was originally drafted by Dungy. He is listed as a SLB which is the same as Greenway, but he was originally drafted to play MLB and from what I have read has good read and react skills. He seems to have enough talent to play the nickle WLB and even MLB in a pinch. The only real drawback I see is he is 28 years old which does not fit the goal of getting players who could have longer careers with the Vikings.I think Wheeler is better than Leber was when we signed him and could fix a lot of problems for the Vikings on defense. Going to watch some Raider games and see how he does in coverage.I am not sure how much money he will be asking on likely his last good contract coming off of a good season for his career.The lineman who was activated week 15 when Harvin was IR'd was Troy Kropog. Have not seen him play but perhaps a decent back up tackle that another team with injury may have considered picking up. Part of this may have been long term thinking as well if Loadholt signs with another team after talks with him fell through.DeMarcus Love is another guy I think could possibly play guard. The Vikings have him as a back up tackle. He may not be quick enough to play tackle at a high level but could be a good player at guard. Sign Berger again for depth and let these young guys compete for starting jobs at guard. That is if the Vikings sign Loadholt. If Loadholt leaves that changes priorities significantly I think.

Edited by Biabreakable, 11 January 2013 - 09:33 PM.

"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#30 Beo

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:39 AM

I have been looking at free agent options at LB and I wonder what you guys think of signing Philip Wheeler from the Raiders? The Raiders met with him Jan 4th and made a statement that they want to re-sign him. I have not watched the Raiders much so have no opinion about him right now but he seems like an upgrade from Henderson/Brinkley in the nickle and base defense.His numbers look pretty solid and he was originally drafted by Dungy. He is listed as a SLB which is the same as Greenway, but he was originally drafted to play MLB and from what I have read has good read and react skills. He seems to have enough talent to play the nickle WLB and even MLB in a pinch. The only real drawback I see is he is 28 years old which does not fit the goal of getting players who could have longer careers with the Vikings.I think Wheeler is better than Leber was when we signed him and could fix a lot of problems for the Vikings on defense. Going to watch some Raider games and see how he does in coverage.I am not sure how much money he will be asking on likely his last good contract coming off of a good season for his career.The lineman who was activated week 15 when Harvin was IR'd was Troy Kropog. Have not seen him play but perhaps a decent back up tackle that another team with injury may have considered picking up. Part of this may have been long term thinking as well if Loadholt signs with another team after talks with him fell through.DeMarcus Love is another guy I think could possibly play guard. The Vikings have him as a back up tackle. He may not be quick enough to play tackle at a high level but could be a good player at guard. Sign Berger again for depth and let these young guys compete for starting jobs at guard. That is if the Vikings sign Loadholt. If Loadholt leaves that changes priorities significantly I think.

I think Love is also in their plans to play guard or if Loadholt is asking too much money to take over at RT next year. I have heard they really like him and he has improved alot and was a shame he got hurt. As far as LB's go I really like Paul Kruger from the Ravens and hope The Vikings make a play for him. He is a pass rusher but can also tackle.
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#31 Biabreakable

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

I have been looking at free agent options at LB and I wonder what you guys think of signing Philip Wheeler from the Raiders? The Raiders met with him Jan 4th and made a statement that they want to re-sign him. I have not watched the Raiders much so have no opinion about him right now but he seems like an upgrade from Henderson/Brinkley in the nickle and base defense.His numbers look pretty solid and he was originally drafted by Dungy. He is listed as a SLB which is the same as Greenway, but he was originally drafted to play MLB and from what I have read has good read and react skills. He seems to have enough talent to play the nickle WLB and even MLB in a pinch. The only real drawback I see is he is 28 years old which does not fit the goal of getting players who could have longer careers with the Vikings.I think Wheeler is better than Leber was when we signed him and could fix a lot of problems for the Vikings on defense. Going to watch some Raider games and see how he does in coverage.I am not sure how much money he will be asking on likely his last good contract coming off of a good season for his career.The lineman who was activated week 15 when Harvin was IR'd was Troy Kropog. Have not seen him play but perhaps a decent back up tackle that another team with injury may have considered picking up. Part of this may have been long term thinking as well if Loadholt signs with another team after talks with him fell through.DeMarcus Love is another guy I think could possibly play guard. The Vikings have him as a back up tackle. He may not be quick enough to play tackle at a high level but could be a good player at guard. Sign Berger again for depth and let these young guys compete for starting jobs at guard. That is if the Vikings sign Loadholt. If Loadholt leaves that changes priorities significantly I think.

I think Love is also in their plans to play guard or if Loadholt is asking too much money to take over at RT next year. I have heard they really like him and he has improved alot and was a shame he got hurt. As far as LB's go I really like Paul Kruger from the Ravens and hope The Vikings make a play for him. He is a pass rusher but can also tackle.

I think Kruger has become a nice player particularly this past season as the Ravens needed him to do more with Suggs and Lewis out.The Ravens will likely retain him I think and he does not fit what he Vikings need on defense as much as Wheeler might. The Vikings need a LB who can cover. That is not Krugers game as he is more of a attacking OLB. Kruger is a tweener OLB/DE type like Griffen. He does not really fix what the Vikings need in a nickle LB who can cover.JMO
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#32 Biabreakable

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:00 PM




...
I wish I knew. Seems like Te'o would be a great fit with Harrison and the Vikings need to upgrade LB. I think Brinkley is worth keeping more than Henderson despite his limitations. The Vikings may be losing Singletary from the coaching staff this offseason unfortunitly.

Whatever the Vikings do the LB position needs to be upgraded.

I agree. Brinkley is worth re-signing if the price is right. I don't know if we have to chase a LB in the early rounds when we have more pressing needs ie DB, WR, and QB.

Hopefully they can fill the WR hole through free agency. It seems like most rookie WR's take two or three years to become useful (obvious exceptions excluded). I don't think they will find QB help in the draft unless they get lucky (Russell Wilson's are not the norm). Ponder could end up being a top 5-15 QB (just need to give him a chance). They really need to address their backup QB though.

I would chase the defensive positions with the early round picks. I think that it can bring more immediate results.

Not a great year for free agent WRs. Jennings, Bowe, Wallace and Amedola are the biggest names. Teams may choose to use the franchise tag as well. Brandon Gibson might be an under the radar player but with such a underwhelming group even he will get paid.

Vikings are committed to Ponder so I am assuming they don't look at a QB until the third day of the draft. I guess I should be happy that Webb didn't perform well. They might not have addressed the position at all in this draft. They definitely have to get very lucky to get someone competitent that deep in the draft.

It is possibly why they drafted Bethel Thompson. If the Vikings do draft a QB they will have to like him more than Thompson and Webb who I think are under reasonable contracts.

A lot of people are disappointed in Webb and Musgrave because Webb did not seem improved from the last time he played. Frazier seems intent on keeping as much of the staff and players together as he can while Speilman makes the decisions on who is worth keeping in the end. I think this frees Frazier up to always be commited to the players the Vikings have in his focus/approach while Speilman has to decide when that is not in the teams best interest.

I think the FA WR group has some players that can help the Vikings but part of that decision making process hinges on if the Vikings sign Harvin to a big money contract or let him go. Obviously if they let him go this makes the position higher priority and opens up players at the slot position that the Vikings might not otherwise be interested in (or have the money for because of giving Harvin a large contract).

This is something that may work in the Vikings favor as for some reason there are many slot WR available in free agency this year. That also likely diminishes Harvins trade value somewhat because a team that trades for him will need to give Harvin a big money contract. They could do that with Cruz, Welker, Greg Jennings, Danny Amendola, Brian Hartline, Steve Smith and Donnie Avery or Devery Henderson or Ted Ginn to a lesser degree but Ginn would help on returns.

Many of these players will be retained by their teams, with tag if neccessary in some cases but there are enough that we may see some musical chairs.

The WR available that would help the Vikings that keep Harvin are fewer.

Dwayne Bowe, Danario Alexander, Domenik Hixon, Mike Wallace. Not as many big outside WR available as the smaller quick WRs.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#33 Maelstrom

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

Vikings are committed to Ponder so I am assuming they don't look at a QB until the third day of the draft. I guess I should be happy that Webb didn't perform well. They might not have addressed the position at all in this draft. They definitely have to get very lucky to get someone competitent that deep in the draft.

It is possibly why they drafted Bethel Thompson. If the Vikings do draft a QB they will have to like him more than Thompson and Webb who I think are under reasonable contracts.

Because of Bethel Thompson, I don't think we'll see them draft a QB in this draft. I could see them bringing someone in via FA, but I don't see any advantage in taking another late round rookie QB.
Go Vikings!

#34 BigJim®

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

It is possibly why they drafted Bethel Thompson. If the Vikings do draft a QB they will have to like him more than Thompson and Webb who I think are under reasonable contracts.

They got Bethel Thompson as a street free agent. He was a UFA signed and dropped by the Niners in 2010, and by Miami in 2011. If he's our solution after being undrafted and dumped by 2 other QB-longing NFL teams, great, but seems like a giant flier to be realized.In case anyone is interested, KFAN's Sunday Sermon with Barreiro was sort of interesting and is available on demand. His show was discussing all of the Viking parellels from yesterday; from a Serwanga-esque safety play in Denver, to Manning tossing Favre's across the body INT, to Kaepernick running against the Packers like Webb might have, to Fox taking the Denny knee. Speaking of the Denny knee, I'm sure Bronco fans were thrilled to see Matt Ryan get his team in FG range on 2 throws against Seattle today, with less time on the clock than Manning had to work with yesterday and the same 2 timeouts, impeccably used. Ahh, the reminiscence is raining cats and dogs out there this past 24 hours.

Edited by BigJim®, 13 January 2013 - 05:03 PM.

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Did you ever expect a corproration to have a conscience, when it has no soul to be damned, and no body to be kicked?

#35 johnnyrock62000

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:49 PM

I can't put my finger on it, but I hope we don't sign Jennings. I just don't see him being elite. Same feeling I had when they overpaid for Berrian. Am I dumb?
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#36 Biabreakable

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:33 AM

I can't put my finger on it, but I hope we don't sign Jennings. I just don't see him being elite. Same feeling I had when they overpaid for Berrian. Am I dumb?

I think Jennings is a quality player and would do better than Berrian did for for the Vikings. I think it largely depends on the money. I am not against or for him becoming a Viking and they need WR in a big way. I do not think you are dumb at all, I do not really want a former Packer on the team either. He is a good player though. No stone left unturned. Whoever the Vikings do add at WR I think their ability to block should be a large part of the consideration. This is something that Steven Burton seems to be good at as I saw the Vikings using him as a blocker frequently.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#37 Biabreakable

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:51 AM

Came across this article today and thought you all might enjoy it as well:

Obviously, the first course of action is looking at the in house free agents and other free agents. Rick Spielman has said he likes to keep his own players rather than go sign other unrestricted free agents. http://www.twincitie...ity-is-keep-our He makes good sense too. But there comes a time when you have to admit that your own free agent just is not going to get better and you might improve with another free agent. I am hoping they realize that much because there are some free agents that I would not resign unless I could not find anything better. KJ wrote a piece on the free agents to be. I am just going to list who they are here. Unrestricted Free Agents: FB Jerome Felton OT Phil Loadholt S Jamarca Sanford WR Devin Aromashodu WR Jerome Simpson OL Joe Berger OG Geoff Schwartz LB Jasper Brinkley LB Erin Henderson LB Marvin Mitchell Restricted Free Agents: OL Troy Kropog CB AJ Jefferson Exclusive Rights Free Agents: CB Marcus Sherels S Andrew Sendejo Now that we know which players we need to replace either via the draft or free agency we have to look at how much money the team MAY have available. As this is never an exact science via the internet, I am just going to list what I was able to find. It may or may not be 100% accurate. I found this item in regards to the cap space the Vikings have ... http://espn.go.com/n...ct-cap-strategy Apparently the team will have 16.1 mil (they are carrying over 8 mil from last year) under the cap even if it does nothing with it's own high priced players. I tried to cobble together the current numbers for players under contract. I got the information from spotrac and from 1500espn. You have to click on each player to see what spotrac thinks the signing bonus plus misc bonus numbers will be. http://www.spotrac.c...vikings/yearly/ http://www.1500espn....f_a_trend091312 Player -- 2013/2014 -- SIGNING BONUS -- MISC BONUS -- 2013 CAP HIT Jared Allen -- 14,280,612.00 -- 2,583,344.00 -- 1,000,000.00 -- 17,863,956.00 Adrian Peterson -- 11,250,000.00 -- 2,400,000.00 -- 250,000.00 -- 13,900,000.00 Chad Greenway -- 6,900,000.00 -- 1,700,000.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 8,700,000.00 Kevin Williams -- 7,000,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,000,000.00 -- 8,000,000.00 Antoine Winfield -- 7,200,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 7,200,000.00 Matt Kalil -- 1,288,663.00 -- 3,204,655.00 -- 0.00 -- 4,493,318.00 John Carlson -- 2,900,000.00 -- 1,250,000.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 4,250,000.00 John Sullivan -- 3,150,000.00 -- 1,000,000.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 4,250,000.00 Charlie Johnson -- 2,950,000.00 -- 600,000.00 -- 550,000.00 -- 4,100,000.00 Michael Jenkins -- 825,000.00 -- 666,666.00 -- 2,425,000.00 -- 3,916,666.00 Brian Robison -- 864,000.00 -- 2,166,667.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 3,130,667.00 Letroy Guion -- 2,450,000.00 -- 500,000.00 -- 50,000.00 -- 3,000,000.00 Christian Ponder -- 1,298,518.00 -- 1,472,036.00 -- 0.00 -- 2,770,554.00 Percy Harvin -- 1,550,000.00 -- 196,300.00 -- 932,500.00 -- 2,678,800.00 Harrison Smith -- 714,479.00 -- 907,918.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,622,397.00 Fred Evans -- 1,450,000.00 -- 50,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,500,000.00 Chris Kluwe -- 1,400,000.00 -- 50,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,450,000.00 Chris Cook -- 575,000.00 -- 575,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,150,000.00 Cullen Loeffler -- 915,000.00 -- 125,000.00 -- 10,000.00 -- 1,050,000.00 Kyle Rudolph -- 555,000.00 -- 466,791.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,021,791.00 Toby Gerhart -- 575,000.00 -- 371,000.00 -- 25,000.00 -- 971,000.00 Everson Griffen -- 575,000.00 -- 135,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 710,000.00 Josh Robinson -- 480,000.00 -- 174,250.00 -- 10,000.00 -- 664,250.00 Christian Ballard -- 555,000.00 -- 101,888.00 -- 0.00 -- 656,888.00 George Johnson -- 630,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 630,000.00 Joe Webb -- 575,000.00 -- 23,128.00 -- 0.00 -- 598,128.00 Brandon Burton -- 555,000.00 -- 42,250.00 -- 0.00 -- 597,250.00 Jarius Wright -- 480,000.00 -- 105,027.00 -- 0.00 -- 585,027.00 DeMarcus Love -- 555,000.00 -- 25,055.00 -- 0.00 -- 580,055.00 Mistral Raymond -- 555,000.00 -- 24,483.00 -- 0.00 -- 579,483.00 Brandon Fusco -- 555,000.00 -- 23,556.00 -- 0.00 -- 578,556.00 D'Aundre Reed -- 555,000.00 -- 12,563.00 -- 0.00 -- 567,563.00 Greg Childs -- 480,000.00 -- 75,146.00 -- 0.00 -- 555,146.00 Rhett Ellison -- 480,000.00 -- 75,146.00 -- 0.00 -- 555,146.00 Larry Dean -- 555,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 555,000.00 Tyrone McKenzie -- 555,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 555,000.00 Stephen Burton -- 555,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 555,000.00 Robert Blanton -- 480,000.00 -- 52,763.00 -- 0.00 -- 532,763.00 Blair Walsh -- 480,000.00 -- 29,483.00 -- 0.00 -- 509,483.00 Audie Cole -- 480,000.00 -- 16,875.00 -- 0.00 -- 496,875.00 McLeod Bethel-Thompson -- 480,000.00 -- 2,500.00 -- 0.00 -- 482,500.00 Matt Asiata -- 480,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 480,000.00 Bobby Felder -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Chase Baker -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Chase Ford -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Chris Summers -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Joe Banyard -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Kevin Murphy -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Lamark Brown -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Tyler Holmes -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Greg McCoy -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Joe Conley -- 405,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 0.00 -- 405,000.00 Total -- 85,236,272.00 -- 21,204,490.00 -- 6,652,500.00 -- 113,093,262.00 Let me say first that the numbers could be off but this is where I found the information. Also, while spotrac is widely believed to be the most accurate they did have Troy Kropog under contract next year for 630K when it appears he is actually a RFA. Here is an article put out today ... http://www.1500espn....se_it011013?t=2 In here Tom P states that Winfield earned an additional 2.5 mil this year via playing time incentives. And he says the Vikings should have around 12.3 mil available under the cap to sign free agents including their own. I guess the 8 mil carry over is reduced by 2.5 mil. I am not sure where else some money may need to be subtracted. Regardless, let us just use the 12.3 mil number for arguments sake. Combining spotrac with 1500espn seemed like it would be fairly close. But please feel free to correct any numbers. So when we look to free agency we first need to decide who to restructure or even release. Right off the bat, I would hope that the team would talk to Allen about a contract extension. There is no use asking him to "restructure" because that is basically saying you want him to take a pay cut. Personally I think it is time to trade him. In this plan he is getting traded. Sorry. I think a team that could show interest is Seattle. They had 13.2 mil in cap space as of Sept 7th this year. http://profootballta...of-september-7/ Seattle is going to need a DE since Chris Clemons tore up his ACL on that crappy field in Washington this past weekend. He will be lucky to be ready by opening day. There are very few APs running around. Clemons contract is here ... 7/23/2012: Signed a three-year, $22 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed -- a $6.5 million signing bonus, Clemons' first-year base salary, and $1.5 million of his second-year salary. Another $4 million is available through sack-based escalators. 2012: $2 million, 2013: $6 million, 2014: $7.5 million, 2015: Free Agent If Seattle decided to let him go since he is due 6 mil next year it looks like it will cost them close to 6 mil in dead money (unable to use cap space). They may be able to fit Allen into their cap provided he signs an extension that lowers his current 14.28 plus cap number for next year (spotrac has it at 17.863 mil). Now here is where there seems to be differing opinions. I found an article that states the signing bonuses can only be spread out over 5 years. http://www.askthecom...aryCap/faq.aspx An expression that was thrown about repeatedly during the various labor meetings is "cash over cap". Well, these signing bonuses are what insiders were talking about, when they brought up that term. One of the things that held up negotiations amongst the owners with the last CBA extension (both back in 2006 and in 2011) was the move to place some kind of cap on the amount of signing bonus money that could be pushed into future years for cap accounting purposes. Although there was no cap on signing bonuses, there was a limit put in place that signing bonuses could only be prorated for up to five (5) years. With the latest CBA, that five-year figure remains unchanged. I believe that Allen's signing bonus has already depreciated in full. This is the last year of his 6 year deal and thus there is no extra cap hit for his signing bonus. Still, 15.28 mil is too much as well. So lets say Seattle is a logical fit and a team that Allen would sign an extension. What would they give up? I doubt they give up their first. I think the best you could hope for is their 2nd and a 5th or a future conditional 3rd or 4th. Another option with Allen would be to offer him a 5 year 50 mil deal with 25 mil guaranteed with a 10 mil signing bonus. I would structure it something like this ... Year - Salary - Signing Bonus - Cap Hit - Age 2013 - 4,000,000 - 2,000,000 - 6,000,000 - 31 2014 - 7,000,000 - 2,000,000 - 9,000,000 - 32 2015 - 8,000,000 - 2,000,000 - 10,000,000 - 33 2016 - 10,000,000 - 2,000,000 - 12,000,000 - 34 2017 - 11,000,000 - 2,000,000 - 13,000,000 - 35 Total - 40,000,000 - 10,000,000 - 50,000,000 If you want to keep Allen beyond 2013 then I think the time to extend is right now. In this scenario he will still get 14 mil this year which is slightly less than what is in his current contract. That seems fair since the current contract is not guaranteed. Also, after 3 seasons when he is going to turn 34, the team can release him (if necessary) and only take a cap hit of 4 mil but will not owe him anything else. Next you have to look at Kevin Williams. There is no way the team should pay him that 7 mil. He approached the team about an extension prior to this season indicating he is very aware of how the game is played ... http://www.dailynors...tract-extension He had a down year by his standards. He finished with 30 tackles, 2 sacks, and 7 passes defended. I cannot say if that is worth 7 mil to the Vikings. In this plan it is not. Here are some contract numbers for players who recently signed extensions ... Brodrick Bunkley 6'2" 306 (29 yeard sold - 11/23/1983) 3/21/2012: Signed a five-year, $25 million contract. The deal contains $9.9 million guaranteed, including a $4.5 million signing bonus and all of Bunkley's first two base salaries. Bunkley is eligible for annual $100,000 workout bonuses in years two through five. 2013: $3.7 million, 2014-2016: $4.4 million, 2017: Free Agent Antonio Garay 6'4" 320 (33 years old - 11/30/1979) 3/29/2012: Signed a two-year, $8.1 million contract. The deal contains $2.275 million in bonus money. 2013: $3.5 million (+ $1.5 million roster bonus), 2014: Free Agent Cullen Jenkins 6'2" 305 (31 years old - 1/20/1981) 7/30/2011: Signed a five-year, $30.375 million contract. The deal included no signing bonus. Jenkins' 2012-2013 base salaries were guaranteed after a restructuring on 2/21/2012. 2013: $1.5 million (+ $1 million roster bonus due in March), 2014: $4.5 million (+ $2 million roster bonus), 2015: $6 million, 2016: Free Agent Kendall Langford 6'6" 308 (26 years old - 1/27/1986) 3/17/2012: Signed a four-year, $24 million contract. The deal contains $12 million guaranteed, including a $4 million signing bonus. 2013-2014: $5 million, 2015: $6 million, 2016: Free Agent Paul Soliai 6'4" 355 (29 years old - 12/30/1983) 3/14/2012: Signed a two-year, $12 million contract. The deal included a $3.85 million signing bonus. 2013: $5.7 million, 2014: Free Agent Ron Edwards 6'3" 315 (33 years old - 7/12/1979) 7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $8.25 million contract. The deal included a $2.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $2.15 million (+ $350,000 roster bonus), 2014: Free Agent Sione Pouha 6'3" 325 (33 years old - 2/3/1979) 3/12/2012: Signed a three-year, $15 million contract. The deal contains $9.5 million guaranteed, including a $3.5 million signing bonus. An annual $100,000 workout bonus is available throughout the life of the deal. 2013: $4.9 million (guaranteed for injury only), 2014: $900,000 (+ $2 million roster bonus on seventh day of league year and $2.5 million 53-man roster bonus), 2015: Free Agent ... I think if KWill would accept a 3 year 12 mil deal then maybe the team will keep him. Frazier has said he wants him to keep him for his "leadership" qualities. I don't know. It is tough because the other defensive tackles are not very good at all. They are younger and really are never going to be confused with KWill. But the team needs them and probably KWill too. I would still draw the line at 3 year 12 mil and probably would be more comfortable with a 2 year 8 mil deal. His sack numbers for his career are 10.5, 11.5, 4.0, 5.0, 3.0, 8.5, 6.0, 1.0, 5.0, & 2.0. He averages about 43 tackles and 6 passes defended per year. He has been durable and very fortunate to not have suffered any kind of significant injury that caused him to miss games. Knock on wood. I think it all depends on free agency. If the Vikings can sign a Henry Melton in free agency then it could be adios muchacho. Next you have Antoine Winfield who played well enough this year to push his salary back up to 7 mil for 2013. http://www.twincitie...s-off-maybe-too The question becomes is that too much for a CB who is going to be 36 to start the season? Here are some contract numbers of other older corners ... Charles Woodson 6'1" 202 (36 years old - 10/7/1976) 9/9/2010: Signed a five-year, $55 million contract. The deal included $21 million in advances and bonuses. 2012: $6.5 million (+ $4 million roster bonus due in April + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses + $1.063 million in possible incentives), 2013-2014: $6.5 million (+ $2.5 million roster bonus + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2015: Free Agent Champ Bailey 6'0" 192 (34 years old - 6/22/1978) 2/22/2011: Signed a four-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $5 million first-year bonus, all of Bailey's first-year salary, and $4 million of his second-year salary. An additional $7 million is guaranteed for injury only. Bailey is eligible for annual $500,000 workout bonuses. Another $4 million is available through Pro Bowl incentives. 2012: $8 million (+ $3 million roster bonus due 3/15), 2013-2014: $9 million (+ $1 million roster bonus), 2015: Free Agent Carlos Rogers 6'0" 192 (31 years old - 7/2/1981) 3/13/2012: Signed a four-year, $29.3 million contract. The deal included a $5 million signing bonus. Another $2 million is available through incentives. An annual $100,000 workout bonus and $250,000 roster bonus is available throughout the life of the deal. 2012: $840,000 (+ $3.06 million "signing" bonus), 2013: $5.5 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: $7.25 million, 2016: Free Agent Aaron Ross 6'0" 190 (30 years old - 9/15/1982) 3/20/2012: Signed a three-year, $9.75 million contract. The deal included a $1 million signing bonus and a first-year roster bonus of $250,000. Another $5.25 million is available through incentives. 2013: $2.2 million (+ $1.5 million roster bonus), 2014: $3.7 million, 2015: Free Agent Asante Samuel 5'10" 185 (32 years old - 1/6/1981) 4/25/2012: Signed a three-year, $14.5 million contract. The deal included an initial $2.25 million prorated option bonus. Another $4 million is available through escalators based on Pro Bowl berths and interceptions. 2012: $1.25 million (+ $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2013: $3 million (+ $750,000 roster bonus due in September + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2014: $3.5 million (+ $750,000 roster bonus due in September + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2015: Free Agent ... This is a tough call. I think the Vikings should ask him what does he think about playing another year after 2013. If he wants to go for two years then perhaps he would be willing to sign a 2 year 12 mil deal with 7 mil guaranteed. On the other hand he did get hurt yet again this year. Who knows if his body will hold up? What happens if he hurts himself like he did in 2011 and then has to miss the majority of the season? The team will have spent a lot of money. I am not sure what I would do but I want to try and sign a younger corner. I like Dominque Rogers-Cromartie, Keenan Lewis, and Derek Cox in that order. If I let Winfield go and get one of these other corners then I like that backfield. Cook, Lewis, Robinson, & Jefferson. Note: After watching Woodson and Bailey in the playoff games this weekend I am very hesitant to just pay Winfield for one more year. Next I have to think about Carlson (unfortunately). Would I want to pay him another 2.9 mil next year? The cap hit will be 4.25 mil. That is a lot of money for a dude who only caught 8 passes for 43 yards and zero TDs this past season. I think that if they cut or traded him they still would take a 4 mil cap hit according to Tom P. So they may as well keep him and hope (and pray) that he could do something. Anything. Next I have to think about Charlie Johnson. His cap hit is going to be 4.1 mil and it will be the last year of his deal. While he did OK this year, I am not sure I want to pay him that much money. Maybe they talk to him about an extension? I would like him as a utility backup but he may still want to start and there could be other teams interested. This is tough. I think I leave him because Spielman wants continuity with the offensive line. I still am in favor of upgrading. Next is Michael Jenkins. He restructured his contract in August but has a 2.425 roster bonus due 5 days after the new league year begins. Unless he restructures again I would be very surprised if the Vikings paid him that money this March. I have to let him go and take a 666K cap hit. http://www.1500espn....h_Vikings081412 Next I would think about signing Jerome Felton to a new deal. Here are what some of the top fullbacks have received ... Vonta Leach 6'0" 260 (31 years old - 11/6/1981) 7/31/2011: Signed a three-year, $11 million contract. The deal contains $6 million guaranteed, including a $4 million signing bonus. 2012-2013: $3 million, 2014: Free Agent Le'Ron McClain 6'0" 260 (28 years old - 12/27/1984) 3/14/2012: Signed a three-year, $8.25 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed, including a $2 million signing bonus and McClain's first-year salary. 2013: $2.25 million, 2014: $2.5 million, 2015: Free Agent John Kuhn 6'0" 250 (30 years old - 9/9/1982) 7/31/2011: Signed a three-year, $7.5 million contract. The deal included a $750,000 signing bonus and a first-year roster bonus of $1.45 million. Kuhn is eligible for $100,000 workout bonuses in seasons two and three. 2012: $1.6 million (+ $450,000 roster bonus), 2013: $1.8 million (+ $450,000 roster bonus), 2014: Free Agent Mike Tolbert 5'11" 243 (27 years old - 11/23/1985) 3/19/2012: Signed a four-year, $8.4 million contract. The deal contains $2.7 million guaranteed -- a $2 million signing bonus and all of Tolbert's 2012 base salary. Another $1.6 million is available through incentives. Tolbert is eligible for annual $25,000 workout bonuses throughout the contract's life. 2013: $1 million (+ $1.5 million option bonus), 2014: $2.3 million, 2015: $2.4 million, 2016: Free Agent ... after seeing these numbers I do not think I would give Felton that much cheddar. Sure he made the Pro Bowl but that was mainly due to his blocking for AP which obviously helped a lot. But AP is a freak and can probably get his yards with most anybody blocking. Felton had no carries and only caught 3 passes all year. Granted the offense was tailored around AP but come on. He was with Detroit, Carolina, and Indianapolis before he got here. I just cant see paying a full back that much money unless he can run and/or catch. Finally here is what pff said about Felton whom they named to the All NFC North team ... The biggest competition Felton faced in this division was from his own teammate Rhett Ellison, who actually finished the year with a better run-blocking grade. Ellison only missed out because of a lack of playing time. ... I think I pass on signing Felton. I know Spielman wants to so they are going to try. But he really has not done anything before he got here. So how much do you want to pay someone to block? If he is willing to work for about 2 mil per year then maybe. Next I would think about signing Jamarca Sanford. While I would love to get a Jarius Byrd it is not going to happen. Buffalo will franchise him if they have to because the number is only 6.7 mil. Teams did it last year with their safeties. I like William Moore from Atlanta, Dashon Goldson from San Francisco, and Chris Clemons from Miami (could get tagged too). Maybe even Laron Landry. But these guys are going to want to get paid. Sanford may be cheaper. Although, I believe he deserves to start and not get rotated with Raymond. I believe the team wants Raymond to win the job. If I am Sanford I am going to test the market to see if I can get a chance to start. Lastly, I do not like Letroy Guions' number either but I cannot cut everybody. They need to keep some high salaries just to meet the mandatory cap spend of 89%. They really should be closer to 95% as well. So now that I have bored you to death with all these details I can get to my plan. First I would try and sign Phil Loadholt to a good deal. Here some numbers of offensive linemen who recently signed new deals .. Duane Brown 6'4" 320 (27 years old - 8/30/1985) 8/16/2012: Signed a seven-year, $56.2 million contract. The deal contains $22.08 million guaranteed, including a $12.5 million signing bonus. 2012: $1,081,500, 2013: $2.5 million, 2014: $6 million, 2015-16: $7 million, 2017: $9.65 million, 2018: $9.75 million, 2019: Free Agent Levi Brown 6'6" 324 (28 years old - 3/16/1984) 3/15/2012: Signed a five-year, $30 million contract. The deal contains $8 million guaranteed -- a $7 million signing bonus and Brown's first-year base salary. Brown is eligible for annual $250,000 workout bonuses throughout the contract's life. 2013: $4.75 million, 2014: $6 million, 2015-2016: $5 million, 2017: Free Agent Todd Herremans 6'6" 321 (30 years old - 10/13/1982) 3/13/2012: Signed a five-year, $27.1 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed, including a $6 million signing bonus. 2013-14: $3 million, 2015-2016: $4 million, 2017: Free Agent T.J. Lang 6'4" 318 (25 years old - 9/20/1987) 8/13/2012: Signed a five-year, $22.06 million contract. The deal included a $5.5 million signing bonus. Lang is eligible for annual $200,000 workout bonuses and $300,000 roster bonuses in years two through five. Another $250,000 is available through a Pro Bowl escalator. 2012: $760,000, 2013: $750,000 (+ $750,000 roster bonus), 2014: $3.5 million, 2015: $4.2 million, 2016: $4.6 million, 2017: Free Agent John Sullivan 6'4" 301 (27 years old - 8/8/1985) 12/17/2011: Signed a six-year, $25.6 million contract. The deal contains $10 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus. An annual $100,000 workout bonus is available in years three through six. 2013: $3.15 million, 2014: $3.65 million, 2015-2016: $4.65 million, 2017: Free Agent Eric Winston 6'7" 302 (29 years old - 11/17/1983) 3/17/2012: Signed a four-year, $22 million contract. The deal contains $8.4 million in bonus money. 2013: $4.9 million, 2014-2015: $3.9 million, 2016: Free Agent So what is it going to take to sign Loadholt? He is only 26. Keep in mind the offfensive line Franchise tag number is going to be about $9.66 mil and the Transition tag number is going to be $8.56 mil. Profootballfocus has him as the 6th rated tackle. https://www.profootb...ensive-tackles/ You would hope the deal that Sullivan signed will get it done. I think it is going to take more. I am thinking it has to be north of the Levi Brown contract. Loadholt will be in demand from teams that want to run the ball. I think a 6 year 27.5 mil deal with 11 mil guaranteed and a signing bonus of 7 mil may get the job done. That would be it for me besides giving the RFA and ERFA guys minimum non guaranteed deals. I would only sign Loadholt before free agency starts if possible. That would be my goal. I would let the rest hit the market and see what kind of deals they can get and what kind of role they will have with that new team. After I combed through the market, then I would consider bringing back some of the other players including Brinkley and Henderson. Wow. This is taking some time. It is OK though. Once I do it once I do not have to redo the work. I can use it as a guide for reference. If you made it this far then there is not much farther to go (I think). So here is my plan ... 1. Trade Jared Allen to Seattle for their 2nd (#56) and 5th (#152) round pick. 2. Trade Toby Gerhart to the Cincinnati Bengals for their 4th round pick #114. 3. Sign Desmond Bryant DT 6'6" 311 (27 years old - 12/15/1985) to a 4 year 24 mil deal. See Kendall Langford's deal last year. 4. Sign Glover Quin FS 6'0" 209 (26 years old - 1/15/1986) to a 5 year 25 mil deal. 5. Sign James Casey FB 6'3" 243 (28 years old - 9/22/1984) to a 3 year 8.5 mil deal. 6. Sign Keenan Lewis CB 6'0" 208 (26 years old - 5/17/1986) to a 5 year 28 mil deal. 7. Sign Phillip Wheeler LB 6'1" 240 (28 years old - 12/12/1984) to a 4 year 18 mil deal. 8. Sign Brad Jones LB 6'3" 232 (26 years old -4/1/1986) to a 4 year 14 mil deal. 9. Sign Louis Vasquez OG 6'5" 335 (25 years old -4/11/1987) to a 5 year 20 mil deal 10. Sign Domenik Hixon WR 6'2" 197 (28 years old - 10/8/1984) to a 3 year 8 mil deal 11. Sign Percy Harvin to a 5 year 52 mil deal with 23 mil guaranteed and a 12 mil signing bonus. 12. Release Chris Kluwe If KWill is willing to play for 4 mil (maybe 5) per year then I would keep him. I think I would probably just let Winfield play out his deal at 7.2 mil. He has earned it. I think it is a good start. The salary cap could be at 107 mil depending on how they structure the new deals. There is still money to extend Griffen, Cook, & Robison prior to the end of 2013. Perhaps it would be better to trade Robison and extend Allen? If you could get Allen's number down to about 9 or 10 mil per year then that would be good. But you would not get as high a pick for Robison and I could be thinking too high on Allen too. For now I am going to leave it as is. So now we finally get to the draft which was really the only thing I wanted to write about. The Vikings will have these picks in this fantasy plan ... 23,53,56,85,99,114,117,149,166,199,212 Note: the trade with Arizona for AJ Jefferson was just a swap of picks somewhere in the draft per Spielman http://www.1500espn...._playoffs011013 What did you end up giving Arizona for cornerback A.J. Jefferson? "It was just a flop of picks, in one through seven. There's a specific flop in there somewhere between one and seven." Obviously the need is still there for a WR. If KWill leaves then another DT will be needed. A LB or two would be good. A RB, QB, CB, DE, P, and S would be good as well. So here goes ... 23. *Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri rJr 6-3 295 I had to think about this for a while but he could last until 23. I think some WRs like Allen, Patterson, and even Austin could be off the board by 23 too allowing Richardson to drop. I think the Vikings are NOT looking for the big run stuffer that fans want. I think that PWill kind of messed with the minds of Vikings fans. There just are not that many Pat Williams out there. There may be some that fans want to believe could be a Pat Williams. I just think the direction is to get quicker defensive linemen. 53. *Alexander Ogletree ILB Georgia Jr 6-3 234 Obviously this would be curious since I am picking up two LBs in free agency but they may not pan out and then Ogletree can work his way into the starting lineup. Also, Greenway turns 30 today. He has 3 years left on his deal. He will be 32 in that last year. The team may want to think about the future. Lastly, the backups we have now really are only special teams type except for Cole who may be able to start one day. Maybe. ** I may have to trade up about 10 spots to get Ogletree. Last year the Rams traded #45 to Chicago for #50 & #150. 56. Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech rSr 6-2 195 Pattton has been a favorite of mine all year. I think he is very talented and has decent size and speed. I think getting another WR early is important even if I did sign Hixon as a free agent. We have to give young guys some time to develop. 85. Zac Dysert QB Miami (Ohio) rSr 6-3 228 Now this may seem high but the team needs to do something about the QB depth. This is not an indictment of Webb. I know a lot of posters think he is no good and all that jazz. I am not going into that discussion because it is fruitless. The fact is Webb will be a free agent after next year and may want to go elsewhere to try to get a starting job. Maybe that is myopic but it could be? Also, McLeod Bethel-Thompson has some tools but that is about all. He really does not have much of a resume at any level and is a longshot. 99. *William Gholston DE Michigan State Jr 6-6 278 Obviously, you have to start building back up the DE depth and looking for the next Allen. They are hard to find. I think Gholston has a lot of upside. All he needs is some more good coaching. 114. Brennan Williams OT North Carolina Sr 6-7 315 (from Lions) Williams was considered a second round pick before he got injured. I think he would be really good value right here. There is no guarantee with Demarcus Love. I think Murphy, Kropog, and Holmes could be long shots too. I like having Williams as a backup swing tackle to start his career. 117. Denard Robinson WR Michigan Sr 5-11 197 I know. WTF? I think Robinson is too talented to not succeed. He already can run the ball out of the backfield but with his speed and excellent size, he could be an interesting project. Perhaps Connor Vernon would be better here? IF Stedman Bailey were here then I would take him for sure. 149. Devin Taylor DE South Carolina rSr 6-7 267 I like getting two DEs. I am not sure of Reed or George Johnson. Taylor has all the tools. If Cornellius Carradine is here I would think about taking him but since he tore his ACL Nov 29th it is not likely he will be ready to start the year. He probably goes on the PUP or IR for next year. 152. Sio Moore OLB Connecticut rSr 6-1 230 Moore is a good coverage LB and has good speed. Very productive at UConn. 167. Theo Riddick RB Notre Dame Sr 5-11 200 (from Titans) I like Riddick. I did not like him when he played against my Trojans. That is for sure. But he played WR at Notre Dame when he first got there so he is very good catching the ball. I like that a lot. He seems like a good change of pace back. 199. *Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU Jr 5-09 178 (this is the swap pick with the Cardinals) There is too much value here to let him slide any further. I think he would do well learning from Winfield for one year and then taking over that nickel corner role. He also can return punts too. Trade. I would trade my 2014 6th round pick to the Patriots for their first 7th round pick #201. 201. Ryan Allen P Louisiana Tech rSr 6-2 215 First team All American punter and the Ray Guy award winner. Also, the left-footed specialist ranked fifth in the FBS in gross average (46.1 yards per punt, a school record) but led the nation with 39 punts inside the 20 and 22 punts inside the 10. Yeah I will take that over Kluwe. Plus I will save over 1 mil. Every little bit counts. 213. JJ Wilcox SS Georgia Southern Sr 6-0 215 We have to continue to add to the defensive backfield. Raymond has shown some promise. Sendejo is a try hard kind of player that may or may not stick with the team. Here are some UDFAs I would target too Zach Sudfeld TE Nevada rSr 6-6 255 Quanterus Smith DE Western Kentucky rSr 6-5 248 Braden Wilson FB Kansas State rSr 6-3 254 Jasper Collins WR Mount Union Sr 5-11 190 Kapron Lewis-Moore DT Notre Dame rSr 6-4 306 Keith Pough OLB Howard rSr 6-2 235 Cooper Taylor SS Richmond rSr 6-4 228 Michael Carter CB Minnesota Sr 5-11 189 If all of these moves happened then after the draft (not including the UDFAs) and free agency the roster will look like this ... Pos -- First -- Second -- Third -- Fourth QB -- Christian Ponder -- Joe Webb -- McLeod Bethel-Thompson -- Zac Dysert RB -- Adrian Peterson -- Matt Asiata -- Joe Banyard -- Theo Riddick FB -- James Casey -- Rhett Ellison TE -- Kyle Rudolph -- John Carlson -- Chase Ford WR -- Percy Harvin -- Jarius Wright -- Chris Summers -- Lamark Brown -- Dennard Robinson WR -- Domenik Hixon -- Stephen Burton -- Greg Childs -- Quinton Patton OT -- Matt Kalil -- DeMarcus Love -- Brennan Williams OT -- Phil Loadholt -- Kevin Murphy OG -- Brandon Fusco -- Troy Kropog -- Tyler Holmes OG -- Louis Vasquez -- Charlie Johnson OC -- John Sullivan DE -- Brian Robison -- George Johnson -- William Gholston DE -- Everson Griffen -- D'Aundre Reed -- Devin Taylor DT -- Kevin Williams -- Letroy Guion -- Christian Ballard DT -- Desmond Bryant -- Fred Evans -- Chase Baker -- Sheldon Richardson LB -- Chad Greenway -- Audie Cole -- Alec Ogletree LB -- Brad Jones -- Tyrone McKenzie -- Sio Moore LB -- Philip Wheeler -- Larry Dean FS -- Glover Quin -- Mistral Raymond SS -- Harrison Smith -- Robert Blanton -- JJ Wilcox CB -- Antoine Winfield -- Brandon Burton -- Greg McCoy CB -- Chris Cook -- Josh Robinson -- Bobby Felder -- Tyrann Mathieu CB -- Keenan Lewis -- AJ Jefferson -- Marcus Sherels K -- Blair Walsh P -- Joe Conley -- Ryan Allen LS -- Cullen Loeffler Obviously there will be some cuts. It is probable that the team will not select 13 players in the draft either. But I think that once you get into training camp some trade opportunities could come to fruition. For example, Joe Webb could be moved if a team suffers an injury. I would like to trade Letroy Guion too. Otherwise he could be a cap casualty considering he has a 3 mil cap hit and is owed 2.45 mil. I also do not think a lot of guys will make it like Banyard, Ford, Summers, Brown, Murphy, Holmes, Johnson, Baker, McKenzie, Conley, McCoy, & Felder. Others like S. Burton, Reed, McKenzie, Dean, B. Burton, and Sherels could be cut. It is ambitious and most likely not going to happen if you believe Spielman. I also think the money I listed for the free agents may be too steep for the Vikings tastes. However maybe they can structure the contracts so that they can get rid of a guy after a couple of years. I think the NFL may be changing in the future in regards to free agent contracts. Teams need to be at 89% of the cap going forward in cash spent. But they really need to be closer to 95%. It could be that teams do not have the players that they want to pay a large amount of money to for a number of years. I think we could see more two and three year contracts going forward allowing the teams the flexibility to let a guy go if the fit is not right. Well there you have it. Blast away. Another option would be to resign Allen to that extension and not trade him. Also, keep Robison and Griffen too. In this scenario it is likely Robison just walks after next year unless they pull off a trade. I will do another mock without trading Allen later.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/1/13/3873996/off-season-plan-v1-0 I really disagree with some of the choices MarkSP18 makes in this article but I really appreciate another point of view. I sounds like we may not be able to save much in terms of cap space by cutting Carlson. If that is the case it is unfortunite. I think Ellison really outplayed him and was counted on more in the blocking game late in the season than Carlson was. I also do not see the Vikings paying 3 mil a season for a FA FB other than Felton. That move made not much sense to me. It sounds like Bryan Robinson will be a FA next season if we do not extend him also. A decision needs to be made there that I was not considering before. I think the Vikings should try to keep all 3 DE but money is certainly an issue. I think the Vikings will be able to restruture KW contract but I am not sure if they will talk to Allen about that possibility or not. I do not see Love being able to back up LT. I thought it was interesting putting Troy Kropog at guard but he is 6' 6" and seems like more of a tackle to me although I have not seen him play really. I like that he also is targeting Wheeler as a replacement LB. Wheeler put up some nice numbers and I think fits the Vikings defense. It is disspointing that Jarius Byrd might get tagged if the Bills cannot sign him otherwise. He would be my 1st choice for FA safeties but may not be an option. Glover Quinn made a ton of tackles on Peterson when we played them. A lot of those tackles were one on one. He could be a good option to consider.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#38 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

Ogletree and Patton are 1st/2nd rounders.Both would help the Vikings.

Edited by Andy Dufresne, 14 January 2013 - 06:02 AM.

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#39 BigJim®

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:30 AM

Came across this article today and thought you all might enjoy it as well:

Right off the bat, I would hope that the team would talk to Allen about a contract extension. There is no use asking him to "restructure" because that is basically saying you want him to take a pay cut. Personally I think it is time to trade him. In this plan he is getting traded. Sorry.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/1/13/3873996/off-season-plan-v1-0I really disagree with some of the choices MarkSP18 makes in this article but I really appreciate another point of view.

Whoa, great info there but had to question the author of that piece based on this blurb about everything being based on trading Allen. That's crazy talk IMHO.Am I reading right that the Vikes can free up a lot of cap space by waiving these guys? Any idea if it is the full 2013 value that is cleared?Kevin Williams -- 7,000,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,000,000.00 -- 8,000,000.00John Carlson -- 2,900,000.00 -- 1,250,000.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 4,250,000.00Charlie Johnson -- 2,950,000.00 -- 600,000.00 -- 550,000.00 -- 4,100,000.00Michael Jenkins -- 825,000.00 -- 666,666.00 -- 2,425,000.00 -- 3,916,666.00
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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#40 encaitar

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

Came across this article today and thought you all might enjoy it as well:

Right off the bat, I would hope that the team would talk to Allen about a contract extension. There is no use asking him to "restructure" because that is basically saying you want him to take a pay cut. Personally I think it is time to trade him. In this plan he is getting traded. Sorry.

http://www.dailynors...eason-plan-v1-0 I really disagree with some of the choices MarkSP18 makes in this article but I really appreciate another point of view.

Whoa, great info there but had to question the author of that piece based on this blurb about everything being based on trading Allen. That's crazy talk IMHO. Am I reading right that the Vikes can free up a lot of cap space by waiving these guys? Any idea if it is the full 2013 value that is cleared? Kevin Williams -- 7,000,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,000,000.00 -- 8,000,000.00 John Carlson -- 2,900,000.00 -- 1,250,000.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 4,250,000.00 Charlie Johnson -- 2,950,000.00 -- 600,000.00 -- 550,000.00 -- 4,100,000.00 Michael Jenkins -- 825,000.00 -- 666,666.00 -- 2,425,000.00 -- 3,916,666.00

They free up most of the salary of Kevin WIlliams, Charlie Johnson, and Michael Jenkins if they cut them. John Carlson costs 4 million against the cap whether he plays with Minnesota or not.(I'm pretty sure this signing was universally frowned upon in last year's thread and rightfully so) Personally, I agree with the author of the article in that the Vikings have to do something about Jared Allen's contract. He's counting 17 million against the cap next year. There is no way he is worth that even playing like he did in 2011, much less 2012. They either need to come together with an extension or look to move him for whatever they can get for him. Thoughts on Winfield? I think he's worth the 7 million if he can stay healthy, but can he at this point? I don't know.

#41 Donnybrook

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

85. Zac Dysert QB Miami (Ohio) rSr 6-3 228Now this may seem high but the team needs to do something about the QB depth. This is not an indictment of Webb. I know a lot of posters think he is no good and all that jazz. I am not going into that discussion because it is fruitless. The fact is Webb will be a free agent after next year and may want to go elsewhere to try to get a starting job. Maybe that is myopic but it could be? Also, McLeod Bethel-Thompson has some tools but that is about all. He really does not have much of a resume at any level and is a longshot.

That is quite the coincidence. I really like Zac Dysert as a developmental prospect and was asking about him in the 2013 draft thread.

#42 Donnybrook

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

Came across this article today and thought you all might enjoy it as well:

So here is my plan ...1. Trade Jared Allen to Seattle for their 2nd (#56) and 5th (#152) round pick.

I am positve that this trade is a pipe dream. Seattle needs someone to replace Chris Clemons next year if he is slow to recover from his ACL (I believe he has had ACL injuries before). Clemons position is called the Elephant position in Seattle's defense. The Elephant is a hybrid LB/DE and requires a players to be build more like a outside 34 LB. Seattle drafted and has been grooming Bruce Irvin for the position. I don't see them changing scheme since they have been very successful running it and Jared Allen is not a good fit for them.

#43 Biabreakable

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

Ogletree and Patton are 1st/2nd rounders.Both would help the Vikings.

I have read some people think Ogletree is over-rated. Seems like he could be a good fit however and should be available at pick 23 I am guessing.Patton from what little I have read so far is one of the top 3 WR of this rookie group. He might be there at 23 also. Both players are ranked high enough at this point that I think it is somewhat doubtful the Vikings could get either of them in the 2nd round but maybe I am wrong about that.Which player would you prefer if we could only get one of them and had to use out 1st round pick on him?Also seems like there is a chance Teo drops to the 15-20 range in the draft so he could be a possible option with that pick also. Would you prefer him to Ogletree?
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#44 Biabreakable

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Came across this article today and thought you all might enjoy it as well:

Right off the bat, I would hope that the team would talk to Allen about a contract extension. There is no use asking him to "restructure" because that is basically saying you want him to take a pay cut. Personally I think it is time to trade him. In this plan he is getting traded. Sorry.

http://www.dailynors...eason-plan-v1-0 I really disagree with some of the choices MarkSP18 makes in this article but I really appreciate another point of view.

Whoa, great info there but had to question the author of that piece based on this blurb about everything being based on trading Allen. That's crazy talk IMHO. Am I reading right that the Vikes can free up a lot of cap space by waiving these guys? Any idea if it is the full 2013 value that is cleared? Kevin Williams -- 7,000,000.00 -- 0.00 -- 1,000,000.00 -- 8,000,000.00 John Carlson -- 2,900,000.00 -- 1,250,000.00 -- 100,000.00 -- 4,250,000.00 Charlie Johnson -- 2,950,000.00 -- 600,000.00 -- 550,000.00 -- 4,100,000.00 Michael Jenkins -- 825,000.00 -- 666,666.00 -- 2,425,000.00 -- 3,916,666.00

They free up most of the salary of Kevin WIlliams, Charlie Johnson, and Michael Jenkins if they cut them. John Carlson costs 4 million against the cap whether he plays with Minnesota or not.(I'm pretty sure this signing was universally frowned upon in last year's thread and rightfully so) Personally, I agree with the author of the article in that the Vikings have to do something about Jared Allen's contract. He's counting 17 million against the cap next year. There is no way he is worth that even playing like he did in 2011, much less 2012. They either need to come together with an extension or look to move him for whatever they can get for him. Thoughts on Winfield? I think he's worth the 7 million if he can stay healthy, but can he at this point? I don't know.

1st of all I think it is unfortunite that the Vikings cannot save much money by cutting Carlson. I hope Speilman learns from that mistake and be leery of whoever Carlsons agent is in the future. Carlson is pretty much dead weight as Ellison, Felton, Rudolph all out played him. But I guess we keep him until the cap hit expires and hopefully he can contribute more next season than he did this year. I am pretty certain that KW is willing to take a pay cut to stay with the Vikings. He approached them about this and I think we get something done there. Perhaps something like 3 mil/year saving the Vikings 4 mil or so on the cap. For Jared Allen I think the Vikings must keep him. Consider how many 1st round picks we wasted trying to find a decent edge pass rusher over the years. Keeping Allen, Robinson and Griffen should be the goal. Hopefully they can restructure the deal to free up some space to sign a FA and keep Allen for the next 3-4 seasons. Robinson being a FA in 2014 means the Vikings need to make plans for him in the future also. The Vikings tend to like to sign guys in the last year of their contracts, extending them if they want that player to be a long term part of the team. I would rather use the money somewhere else this season. Perhaps cutting Carlson in 2014 would help pay for Robinson then if they do not extend him. I do not think it would be optimal use of resources to re-sign Robinson at this time with so many other things that need be addressed. While I think Winfield is worth that money there are some FA corners and safeties that money could be luring to MN who are longer term solutions. For example Rodgers-Cromartie and others. So the price has to weighed against those options as well. I am hopeful he will be back with the Vikings maybe with a slight haircut on his price tag. Harvin, if the Vikings keep him will demand a big contract. That will eat up much of the 12-21 mil available without cuts. The KW restructuring Charlie Johnson and Jenkins cuts should free up another 10 mil or so that could be used for FA. I think having Peterson will help the vikings attract FA's this year. I think most players in the league would like to be on the same team as him, especially if they play defense.

Edited by Biabreakable, 14 January 2013 - 02:55 PM.

"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#45 encaitar

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

One element that no one is talking about that I think is gonna come into play is the stadium situation. How many top flight FAs are gonna willingly sign up to play 2 seasons in outdoor Minneapolis? I think this fact is going to force Minnesota to overpay for FAs if they want to get them and is gonna be a sticking point in missing out on some of the guys they're targeting.

#46 Maelstrom

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

One element that no one is talking about that I think is gonna come into play is the stadium situation. How many top flight FAs are gonna willingly sign up to play 2 seasons in outdoor Minneapolis? I think this fact is going to force Minnesota to overpay for FAs if they want to get them and is gonna be a sticking point in missing out on some of the guys they're targeting.

From a small bit of reading, unless the building goes long, it won't be a full 2 years outdoors. But, it might likely be 2 Decembers. Some FAs might actually consider that a bonus, if the Vikings are good enough to gain a HFA from the cold field.
Go Vikings!

#47 Donnybrook

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

I hope the Vikings does the right think and cut John Carlson. I know that we will suffer a cap hit whether he is on the team or not but the roster spot may be more important. Lets face it an undrafted Alan Reisner looked better than Carlson did this year.

#48 Funkley

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

Watching Kaepernick and Wilson is killing me. I have a tough time being excited about the future with Ponder having saved his job the last 4 weeks.
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#49 Biabreakable

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

I hope the Vikings does the right think and cut John Carlson. I know that we will suffer a cap hit whether he is on the team or not but the roster spot may be more important. Lets face it an undrafted Alan Reisner looked better than Carlson did this year.

For better or worse I think the Vikings try to get more targets to Carlson next season. I still think Ellison beats him out in most blocking situations though.You must be exagerating about Reisner as I do not recall ever seeing him on the field. But I see what you did there.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams

#50 Biabreakable

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

Watching Kaepernick and Wilson is killing me. I have a tough time being excited about the future with Ponder having saved his job the last 4 weeks.

If what the Vikings did this season compared to the last 2 years does not get you excited about the future of the Vikings I am not sure anything less than a title would.I felt the same way about Ponder compared to Wilson in the Seahags game. I wish Ponder was like Brady or Peyton too but that does not change who he is.Wilson looks to be a great QB and a lot of teams passed on him. Some times teams get lucky and the player they take out performs their expectations. I do not think it is really fair to Ponder however comparing him to some of the best QBs of the season. Expectations people have for Ponder seem unreasonably high. Just no pleasing some people.
"El-ahriarah, your people cannot rule the world, for I will not have it so. All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed"

Frith ~ Richard Adams




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