403 replies to this topic

[smackdaddies]

Figured I would start it off.

Well.

Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC North

Unfortunately, they are clearly not Super Bowl Material.

So. What's the next move for Ted?

Edited by smackdaddies, 13 January 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[smackdaddies]

Big Issues

1) Dom Capers - is it him, or is it the players? Packer D line clearly was outmatched by the Niner's O line, even though one of there tackles was clearly not in good shape.

2) Whats up with Jennings? Sign or let go? JFin, same issue. Who else needs to be retained?

3) Running game. Clearly not signing Lynch was a mistake. Is the Packers willingness to throw in used car salesmen going to continue, or are we going to get a competent RB? Or, one could argue we need to upgrade the O Line, and that would open up the running game.

4) Who is replacing Dorsey? Do we have someone to step up, or are we going outside the packer organization?

Edited by smackdaddies, 13 January 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Mario Kart]

Capers needs to go. I just don't know who to replace him with. The defense has not been good the last couple years.

[sho nuff]

Big Issues

1) Dom Capers - is it him, or is it the players? Packer D line clearly was outmatched by the Niner's O line, even though one of there tackles was clearly not in good shape.

2) Whats up with Jennings? Sign or let go? JFin, same issue. Who else needs to be retained?

3) Running game. Clearly not signing Lynch was a mistake. Is the Packers willingness to through in used car salesmen going to continue, or are we going to get a competent RB? Or, one could argue we need to upgrade the O Line, and that would open up the running game.

4) Who is replacing Dorsey? Do we have someone to step up, or are we going outside the packer organization?

1) He has to be gone. While some of it is being outmatched...Capers did not seem to change a single thing to try and stop Kaep last night. He has constantly been seen as slow to adjust. His time has come. Time to go. His defenses had one great year for GB.

2) Jennings is likely too expensive. Would love to have him back...but the offense rolled along fine without him. One thing I think all Packer fans can agree on is being comfortable letting TT find new WR talent. Finley...his number is a bit high for what he brings. Its one more year, I could see him being kept for that one year or into camp. He settled down a bit late in the year and was playing alright. But at that number I don't think it would shock anyone if he was gone...and Id probably let him go to be able to afford keeping Rodgers, Matthews, and Raji extended. Woodson is another who I think will be gone given his $$$ number.

3) I like Harris and think a combo of he Starks and Green will still be utilized...probably draft someone late unless there is another cheap veteran they will pursue.

4) Not sure there. They have lost a lot the past few years out of personnel. Wolf's kid will step up somewhere in the org soon too...just not sure how high up.

[smackdaddies]

Interesting Video Interview with Green Bay Press Gazette

The reporters believe Capers will NOT be let go

Edited by smackdaddies, 13 January 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[smackdaddies]

Clearly LB has to be upgraded. Can Perry be the outside help? One hopes, but he didn't breathe fire pre injury. Hawk was always thought of as a run stopper, bad on pass d, but he did not do anything against the niners. Waldon and Moses are ok back ups special teams players, but clearly they are not front line lb.

I still think this reliance on other team rejects at RB needs to end.

[Alex P Keaton]

Clearly LB has to be upgraded. Can Perry be the outside help? One hopes, but he didn't breathe fire pre injury. Hawk was always thought of as a run stopper, bad on pass d, but he did not do anything against the niners. Waldon and Moses are ok back ups special teams players, but clearly they are not front line lb.

When was Hawk a run stopper? I've always thought of him as a guy who waits for the RB to run into him, then hopes they both fall down. He's just not physically imposing. Definitely overpaid, massively.

I still think this reliance on other team rejects at RB needs to end.

Yeah, it's one thing to say we don't need a top-5 RB, but we can't have waiver-wire fodder.

[Alex P Keaton]

Big Issues

1) Dom Capers - is it him, or is it the players? Packer D line clearly was outmatched by the Niner's O line, even though one of there tackles was clearly not in good shape.

2) Whats up with Jennings? Sign or let go? JFin, same issue. Who else needs to be retained?

3) Running game. Clearly not signing Lynch was a mistake. Is the Packers willingness to throw in used car salesmen going to continue, or are we going to get a competent RB? Or, one could argue we need to upgrade the O Line, and that would open up the running game.

4) Who is replacing Dorsey? Do we have someone to step up, or are we going outside the packer organization?

1. It seems like a combo. Capers appears behind the times, and he clearly has trouble adjusting his gameplans. Yesterday was a great example.....keep CK in the pocket and make him beat you with throws. Keep containment. Didn't happen. On the flip side, TT continues to fail in his attempts to get Capers the right level of talent at DL and LB. (along with his failure to find us o-linemen who can keep Rodgers protected)

2. Say what you will, but Jennings is still the best route running WR we have. He and Cobb are the best weapons on offense, even with the emergence of Nelson and Jones. But we can't pay him top dollar - this team cannot afford it. Someone (hi Miami!) will pay him stupid money. TT and McCarthy have an irrational hard-on for Finley....wouldn't shock me to see him stick around another year, despite the earlier reports that he will be gone. I don't see how we can lose both - that is just too many weapons lost on offense.

3. I've heard so many arguments on either side of the Lynch debate, but there is no doubt in my mind that GB's postseason would have looked at least somewhat different the past 2 years with Lynch on this squad.

4. Elliot Wolf is most likely to continue ascending in the organization. Very clear to me that he's the heir apparent.....and the front office is just hoping TT will stick around long enough for Wolf to mature.

[smackdaddies]

Possible Dorsey Replacement? From Packerupdate.net

If I were Thompson, I’d go outside the organization to replace Dorsey. I’d target Scot McCloughan, the former general manager of the 49ers who’s currently working for the Seahawks as a senior personnel executive. In fact, it’s scary how perfectly McCloughan would fit in the Packers front office. Let’s count the ways:

1) He worked with Thompson under Ron Wolf, so he understands the way things are done in the NFL’s smallest market.

2) He served as a GM for two seasons so he has experience dealing with free agents, potential trades and coaches.

3) He’s an extremely solid talent evaluator. Pro Bowlers Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley and Dashon Goldson were all drafted on his watch, as was emerging star Michael Crabtree. He also signed All-Pro Justin Smith as a free agent and claimed Ahmad Brooks off the waiver wire from Cincinnati.

[Alex P Keaton]

Possible Dorsey Replacement? From Packerupdate.net

If I were Thompson, I’d go outside the organization to replace Dorsey. I’d target Scot McCloughan, the former general manager of the 49ers who’s currently working for the Seahawks as a senior personnel executive. In fact, it’s scary how perfectly McCloughan would fit in the Packers front office. Let’s count the ways:

1) He worked with Thompson under Ron Wolf, so he understands the way things are done in the NFL’s smallest market.

2) He served as a GM for two seasons so he has experience dealing with free agents, potential trades and coaches.

3) He’s an extremely solid talent evaluator. Pro Bowlers Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley and Dashon Goldson were all drafted on his watch, as was emerging star Michael Crabtree. He also signed All-Pro Justin Smith as a free agent and claimed Ahmad Brooks off the waiver wire from Cincinnati.

That would be a great option if TT can make it happen.

[sho nuff]

Possible Dorsey Replacement? From Packerupdate.net

If I were Thompson, I’d go outside the organization to replace Dorsey. I’d target Scot McCloughan, the former general manager of the 49ers who’s currently working for the Seahawks as a senior personnel executive. In fact, it’s scary how perfectly McCloughan would fit in the Packers front office. Let’s count the ways:

1) He worked with Thompson under Ron Wolf, so he understands the way things are done in the NFL’s smallest market.

2) He served as a GM for two seasons so he has experience dealing with free agents, potential trades and coaches.

3) He’s an extremely solid talent evaluator. Pro Bowlers Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley and Dashon Goldson were all drafted on his watch, as was emerging star Michael Crabtree. He also signed All-Pro Justin Smith as a free agent and claimed Ahmad Brooks off the waiver wire from Cincinnati.

That would be a great option if TT can make it happen.

Would be a homerun for that replacement.

[Herb]

Figured I would start it off.

Well.

Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC North

Unfortunately, they are clearly not Super Bowl Material.

So. What's the next move for Ted?

Not even sure they're the best in the NFCN. I'm a Vike fan and not trying to troll your thread, just offering some observations that aren't cheese-tinged.

It's time for the staff and fan base to realize that 2010 was lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying they didn't deserve the SB win; they did. I'm just saying that with all the injuries and very young players playing nearly flawless ball during that run... it just doesn't happen. Kudos to TT and the coaching staff for making that run. But....This is a deeply flawed team. You have ARodg and a great WR corps, and Clay Matthews, and.... not a helluva lot else. There are some nice pieces, but as far as TEAMS go, I'm not sure you're better than Chicago or Minn. You just have a (much) better passing game.

Interested to see what happens at RB. Seems like McCarthy is fine eschewing that position, given his desire to pass all day, every day. The DLine needs some serious help. Vikes and 9ers bullied them around badly. OLine is an absolute wreck and it's a testament to Rodgers that this team has an effective offense. OL is as bad as Chicago's, IMO. You'll be competetive for a long time b/c of Rodgers, but there is a lot of work to be done.

And as GB fans, I hope you all appreciate how fortunate you've been. By the time this run is done, you'll have had something close to 30 years of HOF QB play. Enjoy it. You're about as lucky as fans get outside of NE.

[Tony Jabroni]

Capers needs to go. I just don't know who to replace him with. The defense has not been good the last couple years.

Lovie Smith

[sho nuff]

Figured I would start it off.

Well.

Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC North

Unfortunately, they are clearly not Super Bowl Material.

So. What's the next move for Ted?

Not even sure they're the best in the NFCN. I'm a Vike fan and not trying to troll your thread, just offering some observations that aren't cheese-tinged.

It's time for the staff and fan base to realize that 2010 was lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying they didn't deserve the SB win; they did. I'm just saying that with all the injuries and very young players playing nearly flawless ball during that run... it just doesn't happen. Kudos to TT and the coaching staff for making that run. But....This is a deeply flawed team. You have ARodg and a great WR corps, and Clay Matthews, and.... not a helluva lot else. There are some nice pieces, but as far as TEAMS go, I'm not sure you're better than Chicago or Minn. You just have a (much) better passing game.

Interested to see what happens at RB. Seems like McCarthy is fine eschewing that position, given his desire to pass all day, every day. The DLine needs some serious help. Vikes and 9ers bullied them around badly. OLine is an absolute wreck and it's a testament to Rodgers that this team has an effective offense. OL is as bad as Chicago's, IMO. You'll be competetive for a long time b/c of Rodgers, but there is a lot of work to be done.

And as GB fans, I hope you all appreciate how fortunate you've been. By the time this run is done, you'll have had something close to 30 years of HOF QB play. Enjoy it. You're about as lucky as fans get outside of NE.

Lightening in a bottle does not get followed up by 15-1 and then another division title and first round win if you are not clearly the best team in the division.

Not a hell of alot else?
Young secondary that is pretty darn solid at coverage.
Raji in the middle. Bishop at ILB when he is back.
And you downplay just how big it is having that Rodgers guy.

The Vikings did well in one game...and it was not the interior Dline that was abused by the Vikings...it was containment on Peterson. Yes, the 9ers exploited us up the middle and outside. Raji was doing quite well in the middle on Peterson...but he had that ability to bounce it outside.

But its clear the Packers are better than Chicago (how many more times in a row do we need to beat them to be better than them?).
Minny is getting closer...but sorry, Ponder is not yet there and until then the Packers have that huge leg up with Rodgers and the offense that can put up points against that defense.

On the OL...we all agree something will change there. But they did play far better down the stretch in pass protection (and quite a few sacks are the results of going for big plays and Rodgers holding it for that and not wanting to give the ball away).
Center will be a question mark...LT will be a question mark. But did the Smith boys do a lot of damage against GB last night? No. Lang and Newhouse held up pretty well over there.
The questions will surround Center, and then does Bulaga get his job back and can Sherrod ever do anything.
I think the line is better than Chicago's...but that is not saying much.

[Alex P Keaton]

Not even sure they're the best in the NFCN. I'm a Vike fan and not trying to troll your thread, just offering some observations that aren't cheese-tinged.

It's time for the staff and fan base to realize that 2010 was lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying they didn't deserve the SB win; they did. I'm just saying that with all the injuries and very young players playing nearly flawless ball during that run... it just doesn't happen. Kudos to TT and the coaching staff for making that run. But....This is a deeply flawed team. You have ARodg and a great WR corps, and Clay Matthews, and.... not a helluva lot else. There are some nice pieces, but as far as TEAMS go, I'm not sure you're better than Chicago or Minn. You just have a (much) better passing game.

Interested to see what happens at RB. Seems like McCarthy is fine eschewing that position, given his desire to pass all day, every day. The DLine needs some serious help. Vikes and 9ers bullied them around badly. OLine is an absolute wreck and it's a testament to Rodgers that this team has an effective offense. OL is as bad as Chicago's, IMO. You'll be competetive for a long time b/c of Rodgers, but there is a lot of work to be done.

And as GB fans, I hope you all appreciate how fortunate you've been. By the time this run is done, you'll have had something close to 30 years of HOF QB play. Enjoy it. You're about as lucky as fans get outside of NE.

Herb - thanks for weighing in with a non-homer perspective. It is very much appreciated. And much of what you wrote is spot on. We are short on stars outside of Rodgers and Claymaker. Then again, most teams would feel fortunate to have 2 exceptional, perennial All Pro-caliber players. Particularly when paired with some high quality playmakers on offense. But you are right - our o-line needs work, as does our d-line.

One of the things I'm guessing many Packer fans take comfort in....is that we (again) faced an enormity of injuries to key players. Losing Bulaga didn't destroy us, but it had to hurt the o-line. Desmond Bishop was a physical force last year and early this year - we really needed him out there. Nick Perry was playing solid ball before his injury. Etc, etc, etc.

But this is something fans have ignored/overlooked all year: we've had a few years in a row now with "bad injury luck." At what point do we start asking whether this is bad luck or something more....intrinsic in the way the team is run? Do we have the right strength & conditioning program? Do we have a practice schedule that lends itself to injury? Are we just more "ethical" in how we treat injuries than, say, the Redskins? I don't pretend to know the answers to these questions, but if you have consistent bad luck, at some point you have to ask whether or not luck is really what is going on.

Again Herb, thanks for weighing in. I still believe the Packers are the best team in the NFC Central (sorry, you won't ever hear me call it by the new name), but every year we tread water, there is risk that the gap closes. The Vikings are on the upswing, I truly believe the Bears will disintegrate and rebuild for the next 2 years. And the Lions....well, as long as Stafford and Jimbo are there, the rest of the division should feel great.

[Alex P Keaton]

Capers needs to go. I just don't know who to replace him with. The defense has not been good the last couple years.

Lovie Smith

Never going to happen, but that would be awesome.

[Alex P Keaton]

sho: don't get defensive, Herb is just offering a quality outsiders take.

[smackdaddies]

Figured I would start it off.

Well.

Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC North

Unfortunately, they are clearly not Super Bowl Material.

So. What's the next move for Ted?

Not even sure they're the best in the NFCN. I'm a Vike fan and not trying to troll your thread, just offering some observations that aren't cheese-tinged.

It's time for the staff and fan base to realize that 2010 was lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying they didn't deserve the SB win; they did. I'm just saying that with all the injuries and very young players playing nearly flawless ball during that run... it just doesn't happen. Kudos to TT and the coaching staff for making that run. But....This is a deeply flawed team. You have ARodg and a great WR corps, and Clay Matthews, and.... not a helluva lot else. There are some nice pieces, but as far as TEAMS go, I'm not sure you're better than Chicago or Minn. You just have a (much) better passing game.

Interested to see what happens at RB. Seems like McCarthy is fine eschewing that position, given his desire to pass all day, every day. The DLine needs some serious help. Vikes and 9ers bullied them around badly. OLine is an absolute wreck and it's a testament to Rodgers that this team has an effective offense. OL is as bad as Chicago's, IMO. You'll be competetive for a long time b/c of Rodgers, but there is a lot of work to be done.

And as GB fans, I hope you all appreciate how fortunate you've been. By the time this run is done, you'll have had something close to 30 years of HOF QB play. Enjoy it. You're about as lucky as fans get outside of NE.

Most of your comments are fair. But not on point.

Simply looking at the facts, (i.e. play against NFC North teams), the Packers have owned the other teams. And that does not appear to be changing. What team is built to beat the Packers on a consistent basis? For the past three years, that answer would be "none".

Vikes have a great RB. And that is about it.

Bears have Brandon Marshall, good rb and a strong armed QB. And that is about it.

Lions have the best WR in the game and a decent QB. And that is about it.

As deficient as the Packers are in competing with SF, they are clearly the best team in the North. Because the only way to judge that is scoreboard. If your going to argue someone is better, you have to be able to show how one of the teams is going to overcome the packers. Once can be luck. Three years in a row? Not luck. Just the Best

Edited by smackdaddies, 13 January 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[smackdaddies]

Not sure Lovie is a good fit - the Bears are a 4-3 defense, the Packers play of 3-4

I know our defense needs improvement, but can we make that change?

[smackdaddies]

sho: don't get defensive, Herb is just offering a quality outsiders take.

Herb's comments might be wrong in some aspects, but it was a fair take. Not trolling.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Time to look ahead. Time to assess the roster, who will be back, and who will be out due to skill or contract value.

The Packers have Cedric Benson, Brandon Saine, Alex Green, and James Starks sitting there injured. None really fire the imagination. Benson is old, Starks cannot seem to stay healthy.The best hope for some of these guys is that the Packers will not change all of their backs in one year. I am guessing that Benson does not make the squad. I will guess that Starks is on an extremely short leash. Ryan Grant will be gone. I think Saine and Green are safe. I will guess that Harris gets invited to camp for a look and that he and Green will be competing for a spot. I think the Packers will be looking for a back in the draft.

As for Fullbacks, Kuhn is a fan favorite but I imagine he is on the bubble. He is becoming less effective through age.

At W.R. Driver is gone. He can still play, just not for the Packers at his age and salary. Jennings seems to want out and I think the Packers will let him go. With Jones, Nelson, and Cobb they have a nice core. Boykins is coming along. This will be a money decision and Jennings overvalues himself. After the injuries the last two years he may not find the market what he anticipates, but I do not think his value is down enough for the Packers to be able to afford to keep him. Miami is interested in him and the Vikings love to poach Packers. The Vikings crack me up in this regard. They are like a sad sack who cannot find their own date so they poach the girlfriends of others. It does not occur to them that they cannot overtake the Packers by overpaying for Packers on the downturn.

Finley is on the bubble. The Packers have a number of T.E.'s on the roster, Quarless, Crabtree, Williams. They may not have his speed, but they are reliable when healthy and better blockers. Finley's best hope to survive, and he may not want to stay, is that with the likelihood of Jennings moving on they may not want too much transition in the receiving corp all in one year, and he is under contract.

Offensive line- Sherrod and Bulaga will be returning. They were the projected starting tackles this past year. They will definately shore up the line. Newhouse and Barkley are fine backups, but they are not starting material. Saturday will be gone. If the Packers draft an offensive lineman it will be someone to primarily compete at center. I believe they will draft a lineman in the first two rounds depending on BPA. I believe it is highly likely that their first two choices will be a R.B. and a Center/Guard. Strengthing the line from the draft and from injury returns should help the existing R.B.'s and should help Rogers immensely. Rogers never seemed comfortable behind this years group. I also find Datko an interesting project.

At Q.B. the question is whether Graham Harrel has progressed enough to have a firm hold on the backup spot. The Packers will be taking a Q.B. somewhere in the draft at a minimum to have a arm for camp. If the BPA is a Q.B. before they truely need one I believe the Packers will draft one and there could be a battle for Rogers backup.

On the Defensive line Worthy should be returning, and that will be good. He showed some promise. Neal and Daniels also showed some promise. With Picket getting older, and with Raji seemingly having reached his peak in ability, a peak somewhat less high than might have been hoped I can see a D-lineman being drafted in the midrounds.

L.B.- This is the area where we may see the most action. Desmond Bishop is a tackling machine, D.J. Smith was a projected starter before his injury, and Perry showed real promise. With them returning from injury we are going to see some turnover on this unit. Hawk will be gone or will have to take a massive pay cut. I predict he will be gone. Hawk never reached the potential of his draft slot, is overpaid, and though plenty adequate as a teams fifth linebacker, is not a starter. At his age he is not going to improve. Then we have Jones, Francios, Walden, Lattimore, and Zombo. With the development of Moses and the return of others I think Zombo and Francios are gone and Jones is in danger too. Lattimore will be given a chance to develope. Jones is better than lattimore, but jones has shown his peak and it is not terribly impressive, though he can still make a roster in this league.

D.B.'s- Woodson, thanks for the memories. He is simply not worth his salary and the Packers have young talent pushing for playing time.

I will be watching Datko in camp.

All in all the Packers have the basis to be better next year than they were this year just from guys returning to health. Bulaga, Sherrod, and Perry were first round choices who were unavailable to them this year and Worthy was a second round choice and worth the draft slot. I like the prospects of this team still.

My guess on the draft:

Round 1: Center/Guard or R.B.
Round 2: Center/Guard or R.B. depending on Round 1
Round 3: Best Front 7 defender available
The rest will be BPA, if the Packers do not get a Q.B. they will take a free agent into camp for a camp arm.

[CletiusMaximus]

Capers needs to go. I just don't know who to replace him with. The defense has not been good the last couple years.

That's really the difference between us Joe-six-pack fans and Ted Thompson. Firing Capers is easy enough, but finding a replacement is the hard part. The Packers defense was 11th in the NFL in yards and points allowed. They had significant injuries. Thompson won't act emotionally based on last night. If someone good is available I have no problem moving on from Capers (ed Donatell, Bob Slowik, Jim Bates?) but I expect TT will bring him back.

[Herb]

Figured I would start it off.

Well.

Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC North

Unfortunately, they are clearly not Super Bowl Material.

So. What's the next move for Ted?

Not even sure they're the best in the NFCN. I'm a Vike fan and not trying to troll your thread, just offering some observations that aren't cheese-tinged.

It's time for the staff and fan base to realize that 2010 was lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying they didn't deserve the SB win; they did. I'm just saying that with all the injuries and very young players playing nearly flawless ball during that run... it just doesn't happen. Kudos to TT and the coaching staff for making that run. But....This is a deeply flawed team. You have ARodg and a great WR corps, and Clay Matthews, and.... not a helluva lot else. There are some nice pieces, but as far as TEAMS go, I'm not sure you're better than Chicago or Minn. You just have a (much) better passing game.

Interested to see what happens at RB. Seems like McCarthy is fine eschewing that position, given his desire to pass all day, every day. The DLine needs some serious help. Vikes and 9ers bullied them around badly. OLine is an absolute wreck and it's a testament to Rodgers that this team has an effective offense. OL is as bad as Chicago's, IMO. You'll be competetive for a long time b/c of Rodgers, but there is a lot of work to be done.

And as GB fans, I hope you all appreciate how fortunate you've been. By the time this run is done, you'll have had something close to 30 years of HOF QB play. Enjoy it. You're about as lucky as fans get outside of NE.

Most of your comments are fair. But not on point.

Simply looking at the facts, (i.e. play against NFC North teams), the Packers have owned the other teams. And that does not appear to be changing. What team is built to beat the Packers on a consistent basis? For the past three years, that answer would be "none".

Vikes have a great RB. And that is about it.

Bears have Brandon Marshall, good rb and a strong armed QB. And that is about it.

Lions have the best WR in the game and a decent QB. And that is about it.

As deficient as the Packers are in competing with SF, they are clearly the best team in the North. Because the only way to judge that is scoreboard. If your going to argue someone is better, you have to be able to show how one of the teams is going to overcome the packers. Once can be luck. Three years in a row? Not luck. Just the Best

Fair enough, but I'm talking about where your team stands right now, not over the entirety of the last several seasons. We've covered 2010. 2011 they played great offense. The downfield passing game was insanely good and was they key to pretty mch every shred of success. Defense was miserable and not worthy of a team that was 15-1. And those holes were evident in the playoffs. Now here we are. The Pack won the NFCN by one game over their 2 closest competitors, both of whom also have some major issues. The standings are the standings, but they don't tell the whole story of where these 3 teams are at in Jan 2013.

And you are flat wrong in your assessment of the Vikings. I won't say any more cuz I don't want to junk up your thread. But you're REALLY wrong.

[smackdaddies]

Figured I would start it off.

Well.

Packers are clearly the best team in the NFC North

Unfortunately, they are clearly not Super Bowl Material.

So. What's the next move for Ted?

Not even sure they're the best in the NFCN. I'm a Vike fan and not trying to troll your thread, just offering some observations that aren't cheese-tinged.

It's time for the staff and fan base to realize that 2010 was lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying they didn't deserve the SB win; they did. I'm just saying that with all the injuries and very young players playing nearly flawless ball during that run... it just doesn't happen. Kudos to TT and the coaching staff for making that run. But....This is a deeply flawed team. You have ARodg and a great WR corps, and Clay Matthews, and.... not a helluva lot else. There are some nice pieces, but as far as TEAMS go, I'm not sure you're better than Chicago or Minn. You just have a (much) better passing game.

Interested to see what happens at RB. Seems like McCarthy is fine eschewing that position, given his desire to pass all day, every day. The DLine needs some serious help. Vikes and 9ers bullied them around badly. OLine is an absolute wreck and it's a testament to Rodgers that this team has an effective offense. OL is as bad as Chicago's, IMO. You'll be competetive for a long time b/c of Rodgers, but there is a lot of work to be done.

And as GB fans, I hope you all appreciate how fortunate you've been. By the time this run is done, you'll have had something close to 30 years of HOF QB play. Enjoy it. You're about as lucky as fans get outside of NE.

Most of your comments are fair. But not on point.

Simply looking at the facts, (i.e. play against NFC North teams), the Packers have owned the other teams. And that does not appear to be changing. What team is built to beat the Packers on a consistent basis? For the past three years, that answer would be "none".

Vikes have a great RB. And that is about it.

Bears have Brandon Marshall, good rb and a strong armed QB. And that is about it.

Lions have the best WR in the game and a decent QB. And that is about it.

As deficient as the Packers are in competing with SF, they are clearly the best team in the North. Because the only way to judge that is scoreboard. If your going to argue someone is better, you have to be able to show how one of the teams is going to overcome the packers. Once can be luck. Three years in a row? Not luck. Just the Best

Fair enough, but I'm talking about where your team stands right now, not over the entirety of the last several seasons. We've covered 2010. 2011 they played great offense. The downfield passing game was insanely good and was they key to pretty mch every shred of success. Defense was miserable and not worthy of a team that was 15-1. And those holes were evident in the playoffs. Now here we are. The Pack won the NFCN by one game over their 2 closest competitors, both of whom also have some major issues. The standings are the standings, but they don't tell the whole story of where these 3 teams are at in Jan 2013.

And you are flat wrong in your assessment of the Vikings. I won't say any more cuz I don't want to junk up your thread. But you're REALLY wrong.

fair enough. It's your opinion. But you're REALLY wrong

[DesmondBishop]

I doubt it will happen, but I would love to see Dom Capers fired. His game plans suck, as I have stated many times, he is living off past success and it is really time to move on.I personally would like to see us go back to a 43 defense, Raji and Pickett are a great start to the interior of a DL and there are some good UFA that will be available. Bishop in the middle and Matthews/Perry/Walden/Smith outside, Walden and Perry can also play DE. I know, just a dream, but I honestly think the 43 will be coming back in fashion or maybe some new hybrid to help stop the running QB's. When O-lineman are blocking OLB, your OLB will not be making plays, I saw Clay get pancaked twice at least and he is one of the best OLB in the NFL. I like the 43 to take up blockers, rush the passer and then allow your LB'ers to make plays. I also agree our secondary seems pretty solid and hopefully our rookies improve next year and that area should not be a concern.

Anyone who read the other GB threads, knows I think Jennings should be kept, have said all along he is the best WR on the team, but it does not seem like that will happen.
Jordy and Jones are good and Cobb is very good, which really is not a bad start to our receiving corp. I think Harris is a solid fit for our offense, if Benson comes back, that may not be a bad 1/2 punch, Reggie Bush would look pretty good in GB also in mho or maybe Mike Goodson who is a poor mans Bush I think.

Obviously we will go on and not sign many, if any FA's, which is just how we roll. I still think we are a very good team, obviously we have some holes that need to be addressed, O-line per usual and maybe after another 50 sack season for Rodgers TT will sign a O-lineman at least.

All we can do as fans is sit back and hope for the best.

[donaldhaas]

I expect that there is a good chance that Hawk, Finley, Jennings, & Woodson can all be gone.... that's a ton of money right there...

I'm hoping that the Packers finally use money to get a huge impact OL or DL player.... Not TT's MO, but maybe he has seen the light...

Getting Bishop back will help... Hopefully Perry and Worthy mature into great players when they return to health.... They have talent.

Having Bulaga back should help.... Newhouse is not good. Saturday was not good (for most of the season)...


OL & DL.... there should be a full concentration on the off-season on improving these two areas..

[Balco]

Where to begin . . .

Notable Unrestricted Free Agents:
Greg Jennings, WR
Donald Driver, WR
Cedric Benson, RB
Erik Walden, LB
Brad Jones, LB

Some team is going to throw a ton of cash at Jennings. I appreciate everything he has done for the Packers, but it is time to move on. Donald Driver obviously won't be re-signed. That leaves a still excellent receiving corps in James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and Randall Cobb. I am sure TT will find another solid prospect in the draft. And I am interested to see Jarret Boykin with an increased role. Would like to sign one of Walden or Jones. Both have showed flashes, and both have been inconsistent. The fact that Jones can play all 4 positions gives him the edge.

Notable Restricted Free Agents
Evan Dietrich-Smith, C
Tom Crabtree, TE
Sam Shields, CB

Would like to see all 3 re-signed. I think Crabtree could turn out to be fine as a starter. Shields is going to draw a ton of interest from other teams. I like Dietrich-Smith's versatility and he will be the starting center next season.

Possible Cap Casualties/Cuts
AJ Hawk, LB
Jermichael Finley, TE
Charles Woodson, CB/S
Alex Green, RB

Hawk should have been cut yesterday. He should not even be a backup on this team. Finely is due a large bonus, and although he played better towards the end of the year, it's time for him to go. I think Crabtree is ready to start in a timeshare with DJ Williams or a free agent. The first big FA signing of TT's regime, Woodson was awesome. But he has lost a step or two and there is young talent in the secondary to replace him. The Alex Green experiment has to end. He averages about 3 yards a carry.

[sho nuff]

sho: don't get defensive, Herb is just offering a quality outsiders take.

It was a decent take. But its a message board meant to discuss things and I did that.
I disagreed with some of what he had to say and explained why in a calm manner.
I just don't think its flash in the pan or lightening in a bottle for a team that followed up the SB in the manner that they did.

[Alex P Keaton]

Solid take overall Balco.

Where to begin . . .

Notable Unrestricted Free Agents:
Greg Jennings, WR
Donald Driver, WR
Cedric Benson, RB
Erik Walden, LB
Brad Jones, LB

Some team is going to throw a ton of cash at Jennings. I appreciate everything he has done for the Packers, but it is time to move on. Donald Driver obviously won't be re-signed. That leaves a still excellent receiving corps in James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and Randall Cobb. I am sure TT will find another solid prospect in the draft. And I am interested to see Jarret Boykin with an increased role. Would like to sign one of Walden or Jones. Both have showed flashes, and both have been inconsistent. The fact that Jones can play all 4 positions gives him the edge.

Other than Jennings, I don't see any of the above as particularly notable. Completely agree wtih your take on Jennings - we can't afford what he will go for. Driver is done.

Very much disagree on Walden/Jones. No need to sign either one with the emergence of Moses, the return from injury of Bishop and DJ Smith. If we keep one on the cheap, purely for depth, that's fine. But neither guy is special, both have likely reached the limit of their talent.

Notable Restricted Free Agents
Evan Dietrich-Smith, C
Tom Crabtree, TE
Sam Shields, CB

Would like to see all 3 re-signed. I think Crabtree could turn out to be fine as a starter. Shields is going to draw a ton of interest from other teams. I like Dietrich-Smith's versatility and he will be the starting center next season.

Yeah, all 3 should come back. Shields will get a 1st-round tender, so he's likely sticking around at least one more year. If we could count on Davon House to be healthy, I'd be fine with trading Shields....but we can't count on that.

Possible Cap Casualties/Cuts
AJ Hawk, LB
Jermichael Finley, TE
Charles Woodson, CB/S
Alex Green, RB

Hawk should have been cut yesterday. He should not even be a backup on this team. Finely is due a large bonus, and although he played better towards the end of the year, it's time for him to go. I think Crabtree is ready to start in a timeshare with DJ Williams or a free agent. The first big FA signing of TT's regime, Woodson was awesome. But he has lost a step or two and there is young talent in the secondary to replace him. The Alex Green experiment has to end. He averages about 3 yards a carry.

Agree on all counts. Except the part about Alex Green. He has flashed talent at times, but something is missing. This was only his 2nd year, no? No danger in keeping around a guy who is still cheap depth.

Hawk is so brutal. Can't stand that we pay so much money to this POS

[Stinger Ray]

sho: don't get defensive, Herb is just offering a quality outsiders take.

It was a decent take. But its a message board meant to discuss things and I did that.
I disagreed with some of what he had to say and explained why in a calm manner.
I just don't think its flash in the pan or lightening in a bottle for a team that followed up the SB in the manner that they did.

Don't get defensive.

[tdmills]

sho: don't get defensive, Herb is just offering a quality outsiders take.

It was a decent take. But its a message board meant to discuss things and I did that.
I disagreed with some of what he had to say and explained why in a calm manner.
I just don't think its flash in the pan or lightening in a bottle for a team that followed up the SB in the manner that they did.

They followed it up with two very disappointing playoff runs when most believe they're going to win the Super Bowl.

Again, i'm not a Packers fan, but I agree with a lot of what Herb had to say:
-Rodgers is out of this world.
-Cobb, Nelson, Jones are under contract which is a good WR core. (A small tangent) Was Cobb near 100%? He had 6 receptions for 31 yards in two playoff games. Bringing Jennings back would be costly, but then again it seems like GB has fixed the problem Favre had for much of his career. SURROUND him with talent, TT does that.
-I don't believe in Harris as a long term answer at RB. It could easily be one of those "fresh legs" scenarios just like James Starks. Would GB fans really be upset if TT drafted Eddie Lacy in round one just to finally have a solid guy at this position?
-OL was overrated going into the season. Losing Bulaga hurt, but Sitton hasn't been the same the past couple of seasons. So is he the Pro Bowler pre-injury or just an above average G? Saturday made the pro bowl on name alone and shouldn't return next season. Newhouse isn't the answer at LT, will Sherrod ever get back on the field? Lots of holes on the OL, some young guys that filled in, maybe they develop.
-TE, Finley hasn't lived up to the hype and isn't worth the money. GB has drafted a few TEs and looks like a committee approach moving forward, but no difference makers here.
-DL Raji is solid, but not out of this world. Worthy looked good for a rookie, hopefully he recovers from his knee injury. Not a whole lot else on this DL. Pickett is old.
-LB Will Hawk get released? Will Bishop return to full strength? Mathews is great, but he needs help. Perry didn't look as good as Worthy as far as rookie play.
-Casey Hayward should get GB fans excited, kid is always around the ball. Tramon Williams looks like he came back to earth after a great 2010 run, not the same player. Sam Shields makes good plays, but isn't natural at the position. Hayward should start next season.

Rodgers, Mathews, 3 good WR, solid right side of the line, Raji, Mathews, 3 above average guys in the secondary. However the rest of the team seems like bandaids, like Herb indicated, and not good enough to win in the postseason(aka when it really matters). Maybe TT fixes it all.

Interesting(forgot who said it) on all the injuries in multiple seasons, it could be a larger issue.

[strykerpks]

Time to look ahead. Time to assess the roster, who will be back, and who will be out due to skill or contract value.

The Packers have Cedric Benson, Brandon Saine, Alex Green, and James Starks sitting there injured. None really fire the imagination. Benson is old, Starks cannot seem to stay healthy.The best hope for some of these guys is that the Packers will not change all of their backs in one year. I am guessing that Benson does not make the squad. I will guess that Starks is on an extremely short leash. Ryan Grant will be gone. I think Saine and Green are safe. I will guess that Harris gets invited to camp for a look and that he and Green will be competing for a spot. I think the Packers will be looking for a back in the draft.

As for Fullbacks, Kuhn is a fan favorite but I imagine he is on the bubble. He is becoming less effective through age.

At W.R. Driver is gone. He can still play, just not for the Packers at his age and salary. Jennings seems to want out and I think the Packers will let him go. With Jones, Nelson, and Cobb they have a nice core. Boykins is coming along. This will be a money decision and Jennings overvalues himself. After the injuries the last two years he may not find the market what he anticipates, but I do not think his value is down enough for the Packers to be able to afford to keep him. Miami is interested in him and the Vikings love to poach Packers. The Vikings crack me up in this regard. They are like a sad sack who cannot find their own date so they poach the girlfriends of others. It does not occur to them that they cannot overtake the Packers by overpaying for Packers on the downturn.

Finley is on the bubble. The Packers have a number of T.E.'s on the roster, Quarless, Crabtree, Williams. They may not have his speed, but they are reliable when healthy and better blockers. Finley's best hope to survive, and he may not want to stay, is that with the likelihood of Jennings moving on they may not want too much transition in the receiving corp all in one year, and he is under contract.

Offensive line- Sherrod and Bulaga will be returning. They were the projected starting tackles this past year. They will definately shore up the line. Newhouse and Barkley are fine backups, but they are not starting material. Saturday will be gone. If the Packers draft an offensive lineman it will be someone to primarily compete at center. I believe they will draft a lineman in the first two rounds depending on BPA. I believe it is highly likely that their first two choices will be a R.B. and a Center/Guard. Strengthing the line from the draft and from injury returns should help the existing R.B.'s and should help Rogers immensely. Rogers never seemed comfortable behind this years group. I also find Datko an interesting project.

At Q.B. the question is whether Graham Harrel has progressed enough to have a firm hold on the backup spot. The Packers will be taking a Q.B. somewhere in the draft at a minimum to have a arm for camp. If the BPA is a Q.B. before they truely need one I believe the Packers will draft one and there could be a battle for Rogers backup.

On the Defensive line Worthy should be returning, and that will be good. He showed some promise. Neal and Daniels also showed some promise. With Picket getting older, and with Raji seemingly having reached his peak in ability, a peak somewhat less high than might have been hoped I can see a D-lineman being drafted in the midrounds.

L.B.- This is the area where we may see the most action. Desmond Bishop is a tackling machine, D.J. Smith was a projected starter before his injury, and Perry showed real promise. With them returning from injury we are going to see some turnover on this unit. Hawk will be gone or will have to take a massive pay cut. I predict he will be gone. Hawk never reached the potential of his draft slot, is overpaid, and though plenty adequate as a teams fifth linebacker, is not a starter. At his age he is not going to improve. Then we have Jones, Francios, Walden, Lattimore, and Zombo. With the development of Moses and the return of others I think Zombo and Francios are gone and Jones is in danger too. Lattimore will be given a chance to develope. Jones is better than lattimore, but jones has shown his peak and it is not terribly impressive, though he can still make a roster in this league.

D.B.'s- Woodson, thanks for the memories. He is simply not worth his salary and the Packers have young talent pushing for playing time.

I will be watching Datko in camp.

All in all the Packers have the basis to be better next year than they were this year just from guys returning to health. Bulaga, Sherrod, and Perry were first round choices who were unavailable to them this year and Worthy was a second round choice and worth the draft slot. I like the prospects of this team still.

My guess on the draft:

Round 1: Center/Guard or R.B.
Round 2: Center/Guard or R.B. depending on Round 1
Round 3: Best Front 7 defender available
The rest will be BPA, if the Packers do not get a Q.B. they will take a free agent into camp for a camp arm.

Good to see a DW post! You've been missed

I agree with you for the most part except on Sherrod. We just haven't seen enough of him to know if he will shore up the line at LT or not. Plus given the fact he hasn't recovered yet gives me pause that he can be effective. We'll see what another 6--8 months of training and rehab will do.

[sho nuff]

sho: don't get defensive, Herb is just offering a quality outsiders take.

It was a decent take. But its a message board meant to discuss things and I did that.
I disagreed with some of what he had to say and explained why in a calm manner.
I just don't think its flash in the pan or lightening in a bottle for a team that followed up the SB in the manner that they did.

They followed it up with two very disappointing playoff runs when most believe they're going to win the Super Bowl.

Again, i'm not a Packers fan, but I agree with a lot of what Herb had to say:
-Rodgers is out of this world.
-Cobb, Nelson, Jones are under contract which is a good WR core. (A small tangent) Was Cobb near 100%? He had 6 receptions for 31 yards in two playoff games. Bringing Jennings back would be costly, but then again it seems like GB has fixed the problem Favre had for much of his career. SURROUND him with talent, TT does that.
-I don't believe in Harris as a long term answer at RB. It could easily be one of those "fresh legs" scenarios just like James Starks. Would GB fans really be upset if TT drafted Eddie Lacy in round one just to finally have a solid guy at this position?
-OL was overrated going into the season. Losing Bulaga hurt, but Sitton hasn't been the same the past couple of seasons. So is he the Pro Bowler pre-injury or just an above average G? Saturday made the pro bowl on name alone and shouldn't return next season. Newhouse isn't the answer at LT, will Sherrod ever get back on the field? Lots of holes on the OL, some young guys that filled in, maybe they develop.
-TE, Finley hasn't lived up to the hype and isn't worth the money. GB has drafted a few TEs and looks like a committee approach moving forward, but no difference makers here.
-DL Raji is solid, but not out of this world. Worthy looked good for a rookie, hopefully he recovers from his knee injury. Not a whole lot else on this DL. Pickett is old.
-LB Will Hawk get released? Will Bishop return to full strength? Mathews is great, but he needs help. Perry didn't look as good as Worthy as far as rookie play.
-Casey Hayward should get GB fans excited, kid is always around the ball. Tramon Williams looks like he came back to earth after a great 2010 run, not the same player. Sam Shields makes good plays, but isn't natural at the position. Hayward should start next season.

Rodgers, Mathews, 3 good WR, solid right side of the line, Raji, Mathews, 3 above average guys in the secondary. However the rest of the team seems like bandaids, like Herb indicated, and not good enough to win in the postseason(aka when it really matters). Maybe TT fixes it all.

Interesting(forgot who said it) on all the injuries in multiple seasons, it could be a larger issue.

I agree they followed up poorly in the postseason.
The defense in 2010 was certainly the outlier right now.

I don't think we would be upset with a solid RB drafted in any round.

Not sure OL was overrated...most thought there were big question marks. Some of us overrated Saturday...thought he had one year left.
I agree with you on Sitton...has not lived up to his play the first couple years.

At CB...Tramon stepped back with that shoulder last year and played better this year in pass coverage. He is still not being physical enough in run support though.
Hayward will start in the slot...seems he is carving his niche there and its a nice one to have.

[Mr.Pack]

Time to look ahead. Time to assess the roster, who will be back, and who will be out due to skill or contract value.

The Packers have Cedric Benson, Brandon Saine, Alex Green, and James Starks sitting there injured. None really fire the imagination. Benson is old, Starks cannot seem to stay healthy.The best hope for some of these guys is that the Packers will not change all of their backs in one year. I am guessing that Benson does not make the squad. I will guess that Starks is on an extremely short leash. Ryan Grant will be gone. I think Saine and Green are safe. I will guess that Harris gets invited to camp for a look and that he and Green will be competing for a spot. I think the Packers will be looking for a back in the draft.

As for Fullbacks, Kuhn is a fan favorite but I imagine he is on the bubble. He is becoming less effective through age.

At W.R. Driver is gone. He can still play, just not for the Packers at his age and salary. Jennings seems to want out and I think the Packers will let him go. With Jones, Nelson, and Cobb they have a nice core. Boykins is coming along. This will be a money decision and Jennings overvalues himself. After the injuries the last two years he may not find the market what he anticipates, but I do not think his value is down enough for the Packers to be able to afford to keep him. Miami is interested in him and the Vikings love to poach Packers. The Vikings crack me up in this regard. They are like a sad sack who cannot find their own date so they poach the girlfriends of others. It does not occur to them that they cannot overtake the Packers by overpaying for Packers on the downturn.

Finley is on the bubble. The Packers have a number of T.E.'s on the roster, Quarless, Crabtree, Williams. They may not have his speed, but they are reliable when healthy and better blockers. Finley's best hope to survive, and he may not want to stay, is that with the likelihood of Jennings moving on they may not want too much transition in the receiving corp all in one year, and he is under contract.

Offensive line- Sherrod and Bulaga will be returning. They were the projected starting tackles this past year. They will definately shore up the line. Newhouse and Barkley are fine backups, but they are not starting material. Saturday will be gone. If the Packers draft an offensive lineman it will be someone to primarily compete at center. I believe they will draft a lineman in the first two rounds depending on BPA. I believe it is highly likely that their first two choices will be a R.B. and a Center/Guard. Strengthing the line from the draft and from injury returns should help the existing R.B.'s and should help Rogers immensely. Rogers never seemed comfortable behind this years group. I also find Datko an interesting project.

At Q.B. the question is whether Graham Harrel has progressed enough to have a firm hold on the backup spot. The Packers will be taking a Q.B. somewhere in the draft at a minimum to have a arm for camp. If the BPA is a Q.B. before they truely need one I believe the Packers will draft one and there could be a battle for Rogers backup.

On the Defensive line Worthy should be returning, and that will be good. He showed some promise. Neal and Daniels also showed some promise. With Picket getting older, and with Raji seemingly having reached his peak in ability, a peak somewhat less high than might have been hoped I can see a D-lineman being drafted in the midrounds.

L.B.- This is the area where we may see the most action. Desmond Bishop is a tackling machine, D.J. Smith was a projected starter before his injury, and Perry showed real promise. With them returning from injury we are going to see some turnover on this unit. Hawk will be gone or will have to take a massive pay cut. I predict he will be gone. Hawk never reached the potential of his draft slot, is overpaid, and though plenty adequate as a teams fifth linebacker, is not a starter. At his age he is not going to improve. Then we have Jones, Francios, Walden, Lattimore, and Zombo. With the development of Moses and the return of others I think Zombo and Francios are gone and Jones is in danger too. Lattimore will be given a chance to develope. Jones is better than lattimore, but jones has shown his peak and it is not terribly impressive, though he can still make a roster in this league.

D.B.'s- Woodson, thanks for the memories. He is simply not worth his salary and the Packers have young talent pushing for playing time.

I will be watching Datko in camp.

All in all the Packers have the basis to be better next year than they were this year just from guys returning to health. Bulaga, Sherrod, and Perry were first round choices who were unavailable to them this year and Worthy was a second round choice and worth the draft slot. I like the prospects of this team still.

My guess on the draft:

Round 1: Center/Guard or R.B.
Round 2: Center/Guard or R.B. depending on Round 1
Round 3: Best Front 7 defender available
The rest will be BPA, if the Packers do not get a Q.B. they will take a free agent into camp for a camp arm.

Hey DW! Good to see you around!

I agree with most of your take here. The only thing I disagree with is that they will be looking for a Center, I think they are really high on EDS. Will the draft a Center, probably. But is it on their "top priority" list? I don't think so.

I think LB and RB will be tops. But they never seem to draft a RB very high, so we'll see.

[Kleck]

Just hope we find a way to stay healthy next year.

[smackdaddies]

I don't know the draft well enough to predict who might be available for the Packers. If I was king (or at least TT) I think you have to go back and do last years draft again - best available defensive player, with a focus on linebacker. I would not be adverse to an early pick on an offensive lineman, but clearly the defensive line and linebackers continue to be deficient

[smackdaddies]

Just hope we find a way to stay healthy next year.

interesting statistics. I did not realize the extent to which the Packers got hammered by injury (again)

[KingPrawn]

Big Issues

1) Dom Capers - is it him, or is it the players? Packer D line clearly was outmatched by the Niner's O line, even though one of there tackles was clearly not in good shape.

2) Whats up with Jennings? Sign or let go? JFin, same issue. Who else needs to be retained?

3) Running game. Clearly not signing Lynch was a mistake. Is the Packers willingness to through in used car salesmen going to continue, or are we going to get a competent RB? Or, one could argue we need to upgrade the O Line, and that would open up the running game.

4) Who is replacing Dorsey? Do we have someone to step up, or are we going outside the packer organization?

1) He has to be gone. While some of it is being outmatched...Capers did not seem to change a single thing to try and stop Kaep last night. He has constantly been seen as slow to adjust. His time has come. Time to go. His defenses had one great year for GB.

2) Jennings is likely too expensive. Would love to have him back...but the offense rolled along fine without him. One thing I think all Packer fans can agree on is being comfortable letting TT find new WR talent. Finley...his number is a bit high for what he brings. Its one more year, I could see him being kept for that one year or into camp. He settled down a bit late in the year and was playing alright. But at that number I don't think it would shock anyone if he was gone...and Id probably let him go to be able to afford keeping Rodgers, Matthews, and Raji extended. Woodson is another who I think will be gone given his $$$ number.

3) I like Harris and think a combo of he Starks and Green will still be utilized...probably draft someone late unless there is another cheap veteran they will pursue.

4) Not sure there. They have lost a lot the past few years out of personnel. Wolf's kid will step up somewhere in the org soon too...just not sure how high up.

Elliott Wolf definitely has a future in the organization. Not sure how ready he is but he's upcoming. Another name that could surface is Mike Reinfeldt.

[Man in the yellow hat]

The Alex Green experiment has to end. He averages about 3 yards a carry.

I don't understand this line of thinking in any way. Alex Green was only in year two. Essentially, he was a rookie, since he lost all last season due to ACL. You could see him wearing down as this year wore on, as it was clear he was still not all the way back from his injury. Very, very premature to give up on a guy in his situation. I predict a much different looking player heading into next season.

[KingPrawn]

Green-Bay-Packers-play-it-safe-in-playoffs-but-don-t-wink

The Green Bay Packers’ offensive mantra over the past two seasons — and really ever since Aaron Rodgers became their quarterback — has been to avoid interceptions and, in turn, emerge with a better passing rating than their opponent.

Statkeepers inside and outside the game can provide irrefutable evidence that the teams that commit the fewest turnovers and finish with the higher passer rating win upwards of 70 percent of the time in the regular season and postseason.

The Packers have used that approach to win 26 of 32 games the past two years. Granted, if you go strictly by the stats, they’ve been derailed in the playoffs both years when they lost the turnover battle and either had a worse or no appreciable edge in passer rating.

So one could argue that the proof could be found in the numbers again Saturday night.

But really there was no turnover differential in the Packers’ 45-31 defeat at the hands of the San Francisco 49ers. Each team committed one that led to a touchdown for the other. Aaron Rodgers’ interception was a third-down pass that traveled 61 yards downfield. It wasn’t a high-risk throw; it was the same as a punt.

In Brett Favre’s last five years with the Packers, they lost two playoff games when he inexplicably threw interceptions in overtime. He also threw six picks in one of his worst games ever, a lopsided divisional round loss to St. Louis in 2001.

Tired of Favre going down swinging while chasing bad pitches, the Packers have gone to the other extreme and become the anti-Favres. It’s a philosophy that won them a Super Bowl two years ago, but has disarmed them in the playoffs the past two seasons.

In both losses, to the New York Giants last year and now the 49ers, the Packers have played poorly, if not pathetically, on defense. But for a team with a supposedly high-powered passing game, they haven’t competed offensively, either.

Last year, the Packers’ defense didn’t allow the Giants a first down in the third quarter, but their offense countered with just 3 points. This year, down 24-21 at halftime, the Packers punted on three of their first four possessions of the second half and settled for a field goal on the other.

It’s almost as if they’ve played not to lose or at least not to lose those two important stat battles that have produced an endless string of victories against the likes of Blaine Gabbert, John Skelton, Jake Locker and Joe Webb, but now have also led to feeble postseason exits against quarterbacks and teams willing to take chances and play more aggressively.

Alex Smith is living proof that passer rating isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to judging quarterbacks. When he was benched for Colin Kaepernick, Smith ranked third in the league behind Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers with a 104.1 rating, including 125.6 with no interceptions against the Packers in the opener.

But Kaepernick was lights out better Saturday than Smith had been in September despite a much more modest 91.2 rating that included a thoughtless interception to start the game.
The defense

Give the 49ers credit. They scouted the Packers well and borrowed from Minnesota’s late-season game plans by attacking the left side of the Packers’ defense, only with Kaepernick rather than Adrian Peterson running the ball.

The Packers’ biggest issues were the undisciplined play of their outside linebackers, notably Erik Walden, and cornerback Tramon Williams’ unwillingness to fill against the run.

Kaepernick’s 56-yard TD was a read option straight out of an Army or Navy playbook. When he put the ball in his running back’s stomach, his eyes were on Walden; and when Walden committed a cardinal sin by not staying square to the line of scrimmage, Kaepernick pulled the ball out and took off.

By turning his shoulders when he took on the lead blocker, Walden left a huge hole. Behind him, Williams made little effort to get off a receiver’s block and Charles Woodson didn’t have the speed to catch Kaepernick. It didn’t help that B.J. Raji was caved down at the line and that Brad Jones had to find a way around him after filling against the inside fake, which was his assignment. But the breakdown was outside.

Woodson also looked every bit his 36 years on Frank Gore’s 45-yard catch and run on the 49ers’ first scoring drive. Clearly, the 49ers schemed to get Woodson in a one-on-one matchup in space.

Another big play that led to a 49ers touchdown was Vernon Davis’ 44-yard catch over A.J. Hawk. That’s an obvious mismatch. Hawk had to expend so much effort in coverage he had nothing left to play the ball. But give him an A for effort. Williams, on the other hand, was in a trail position and simply jogged behind the play after Dezman Moses freed him by picking up the fullback in the flat.

The Packers tried to use Walden as a spy on Kaepernick, but that didn’t work, either. With 6:25 to go in the first half, third-and-9 at the Green Bay 24, Kaepernick ran for 15 yards. A spy still has to maintain lane integrity, and admittedly that’s a tough assignment. Walden stayed in the lane rather than center up and wasn’t athletic enough to get in front of Kaepernick to make the tackle. That’s a play that helps explain why Walden was out on the streets three years ago.

Football is all about matchups, and something else that can’t be overlooked is the 49ers have the best offensive line the Packers faced all season. Their line handled the Packers’ normally stout defensive line and exposed Jones and Hawk for what they are. They’re serviceable, but not studs like the 49ers’ inside backers.
The offense

Down by three touchdowns with 3:29 to play, the Packers mounted an 11-play drive without throwing a pass more than 12 yards. That series said a mouthful. The Packers can’t get teams out of a two-deep zone with their running game, and they won’t throw into one even in desperate times.

Rodgers has the arm to do it. His 30-yard completion to Greg Jennings and 19-yard pass to Jermichael Finley with 4:20 to go in the half were lasers into tight coverage down the middle. But despite having his full complement of receivers, Rodgers averaged a mere 9.9 yards per completion.

The offensive line, particularly inside, played well. DuJuan Harris averaged 4.8 yards per carry. The Packers stole a formation the 49ers had used effectively in the opener, flanking John Kuhn and Ryan Grant wide, to get James Jones isolated on a safety for a 20-yard touchdown.

But the Packers played like they did all year and in the postseason last year. They played the percentages. The end result was the same: No risk, no reward.

Good read and they make some very good points on Woodson, Walden, Hawk and Williams.

[smackdaddies]

pretty good read on what might be happening with Don Capers in the journal sentinel

Under defensive coordinator Dom Capers the past four seasons, the defense has at times been unable to stop the run, unable to communicate consistently in the secondary and unable to stand up to hot quarterbacks. Its saving grace other times has been creating turnovers and getting sacks, but too often the season has ended on a disappointing note.

As the week goes on, McCarthy is going to have to decide whether Capers has lost his touch and no longer has the ability to keep up with the NFL's increasingly diverse offensive attacks or is a victim of Thompson's draft-only philosophy and neglect in acquiring the bruising linebackers and safeties it takes to compete with the physical offenses of NFC contenders San Francisco and the New York Giants.

[Balco]

The Alex Green experiment has to end. He averages about 3 yards a carry.

I don't understand this line of thinking in any way. Alex Green was only in year two. Essentially, he was a rookie, since he lost all last season due to ACL. You could see him wearing down as this year wore on, as it was clear he was still not all the way back from his injury. Very, very premature to give up on a guy in his situation. I predict a much different looking player heading into next season.

I wish I could feel the same way. He averaged about .5 yards a carry during the preseason of his rookie year, and was abysmal from start to finish his 2nd year. I really want him to pan out, but the Packers can't afford to hold on to him in the hopes he can get his ypc to 3.5.

I think DuJuan Harris should be the only tailback assured of a spot.

[sho nuff]

pretty good read on what might be happening with Don Capers in the journal sentinel

Under defensive coordinator Dom Capers the past four seasons, the defense has at times been unable to stop the run, unable to communicate consistently in the secondary and unable to stand up to hot quarterbacks. Its saving grace other times has been creating turnovers and getting sacks, but too often the season has ended on a disappointing note.

As the week goes on, McCarthy is going to have to decide whether Capers has lost his touch and no longer has the ability to keep up with the NFL's increasingly diverse offensive attacks or is a victim of Thompson's draft-only philosophy and neglect in acquiring the bruising linebackers and safeties it takes to compete with the physical offenses of NFC contenders San Francisco and the New York Giants.

I think his philosophy has been too reliant on takeaways and not enough actual "stopping" plays made by the defense.

[smackdaddies]

Capers will be back as D Coordinator. (per JS today, no link, sorry)

[smackdaddies]

What do people think of Stepfan Taylor as a RB pick for the pack - projected 4th round, might have to take in 3rd or move up a little in the 4th.

I like him because he is big enough, blocks great, decent receiver. Not a home run threat, but I don't think the Packers care. I think Green and Harris offer a change of pace to him

edit, read some reports, he may be up to the second round....

Edited by smackdaddies, 26 January 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[Balco]

What do people think of Stepfan Taylor as a RB pick for the pack - projected 4th round, might have to take in 3rd or move up a little in the 4th.

I like him because he is big enough, blocks great, decent receiver. Not a home run threat, but I don't think the Packers care. I think Green and Harris offer a change of pace to him

edit, read some reports, he may be up to the second round....

I won't be devastated if the Pack don't take a rb in the first four rounds. This team needs defense and offensive line. If the best player available is a rb when they pick, that is fine, pick him, but I don't want them to reach for need.

[Balco]

During the Falcons-49ers game, the announcers made mention that of the 185 rushing yards Colin Kaepernick had against the Pack, 174 were before contact. That is beyond embarrassing, and shows a total lack of discipline by the D.

With Jerrel Worthy likely out the year next year, the Packers really need to shore up the D Line. BJ Raji is at his best when he is spelled every so often. They don't need a superstar, they need rotation lineman who can hold the point of attack.

I also read that in order to return, AJ Hawk would need a drastic pay cut. Forget the paycut, get him off the team. Immediately.

[KingPrawn]

I would hope the Packers would focus the draft on LBs, the offensive line, a hard-hitting safety. Maybe take fliers in the later rounds on a RB, defensive line and a WR.

[Balco]

I would hope the Packers would focus the draft on LBs, the offensive line, a hard-hitting safety. Maybe take fliers in the later rounds on a RB, defensive line and a WR.

I have always believed a good defense, 3-4 or 4-3 is built up the middle. DT, MLB, SS/FS. This is where the Packers need to focus. There is one solid MLB in Desmond Bishop, but there is another ILB spot that needs to be filled. On the D Line, I like Raji but he needs to have his snaps reduced. He is at his best when he is spelled occasionally. Would love to see a run stuffing NT signed to rotate in and out. As for safety, they need sure tacklers. That is it. Someone who can make a tackle, and take the right angles.

I don't expect Ted Thompson to make a huge free agent signing, he rarely ever does, and I am fine with that. But he absolutely needs to find some situational players in free agency, especially on the D Line. Someone like Casey Hampton to play 20-30 snaps a game.

Let Greg Jennings walk, say goodbye to Jermichael Finley, and that is it for the offense in free agency. This offense is more than good enough to win a Super Bowl, the defense is atrocious.

The only position I am happy with on D is cornerback. A pass rush would make them alot better.

[sho nuff]

I would hope the Packers would focus the draft on LBs, the offensive line, a hard-hitting safety. Maybe take fliers in the later rounds on a RB, defensive line and a WR.

I have always believed a good defense, 3-4 or 4-3 is built up the middle. DT, MLB, SS/FS. This is where the Packers need to focus. There is one solid MLB in Desmond Bishop, but there is another ILB spot that needs to be filled. On the D Line, I like Raji but he needs to have his snaps reduced. He is at his best when he is spelled occasionally. Would love to see a run stuffing NT signed to rotate in and out. As for safety, they need sure tacklers. That is it. Someone who can make a tackle, and take the right angles.

I don't expect Ted Thompson to make a huge free agent signing, he rarely ever does, and I am fine with that. But he absolutely needs to find some situational players in free agency, especially on the D Line. Someone like Casey Hampton to play 20-30 snaps a game.

Let Greg Jennings walk, say goodbye to Jermichael Finley, and that is it for the offense in free agency. This offense is more than good enough to win a Super Bowl, the defense is atrocious.

The only position I am happy with on D is cornerback. A pass rush would make them alot better.

Though, I think they are ok at OLB. Not perfect...but they could sit pat with Matthews, Perry, Walden, Moses (unless they let Walden walk).