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Pick the Young QB to build your franchise around (1 Viewer)

What young QB (2011 or 2012 draft class) would you build your team around?

  • Cam Newton

    Votes: 23 8.5%

  • Jake Locker

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Christian Ponder

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Andy Dalton

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Colin Kaepernick

    Votes: 24 8.9%

  • Andrew Luck

    Votes: 165 61.1%

  • Robert Griffin III

    Votes: 11 4.1%

  • Ryan Tannehill

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Russell Wilson

    Votes: 39 14.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 1.1%
  • Total voters
    270
Jewell

Jewell

Footballguy
There has been a lot of talk the last several weeks about Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, RG3, and Andrew Luck... and deservedly so.

These young QBs not only look like the best batch of young QBS in some time, but they also look like they may be part of an evolutionary period of the QB position.

The question is -- What young QB (2011 or 2012 draft class) would you build your team around? Why?

Please consider not only ability, but also durability.

 
Tough call. All I can do right now is say I definitely don't want it to be Ponder or Locker. Cam Newton has the ability to be the best player on that list. I would say Luck, RG3, Newton or Dalton. Kind of not fair to some of the guys on this list since they haven't even played a full year yet.

 
'SacramentoBob said:
Tough call. All I can do right now is say I definitely don't want it to be Ponder or Locker. Cam Newton has the ability to be the best player on that list. I would say Luck, RG3, Newton or Dalton. Kind of not fair to some of the guys on this list since they haven't even played a full year yet.
Click to expand...
I included the two bolded because they're starters for the 2011 draft class, but I didn't think that they'd get any votes... yet Ponder already has a vote on the board.This poll was inspired by a conversation I had earlier where a friend and I were ranking Wilson, Kaepernick, and RG3's longterm prospects, and we both ranked RG3 third because we had questions about his durabilty.

 
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pretty shocked at the lack of RG3 votes. By far the best rookie this season but the injury seems scary.I voted Luck because I think he'll have the longest. RG3 would be a close second but injury concern will only flood the skewed votingWilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups

 
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Still Luck, but the gap has closed considerably. Kaepernick is SCARY good. It looks like he's still playing against San Jose State sometimes, and he probably still has room to grow tremendously in terms of reading defenses. But in the end, give me the classic pocket gunslinger who is more likely to suit up every week.

 
Voted Luck. A lot of the QBs on the list look to have good futures predicated on the organization or other factors. Luck IMO is has all the goods in one package that can make a lesser team better.

 
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
 
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
Difference... RG3 was good from the get go on a crap team.. Kaep took over a team that was in the NFC Champ game.Stronger arm? Idk about that.. and he sure as #### isnt faster so tell me why Kaep is better?BTW.. the packers D wasnt that great.. seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg
 
'money.never.sleeps said:
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
and he sure as #### isnt faster
Click to expand...
wanna bet?
 
'Short Corner said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
and he sure as #### isnt faster
Click to expand...
wanna bet?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: on one knee maybe
 
'Warrior said:
'Short Corner said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
and he sure as #### isnt faster
Click to expand...
wanna bet?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: on one knee maybe
Click to expand...
So are we building on the QB he was or the QB he is going forward?
 
'Short Corner said:
'Warrior said:
'Short Corner said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
and he sure as #### isnt faster
Click to expand...
wanna bet?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: on one knee maybe
Click to expand...
So are we building on the QB he was or the QB he is going forward?
Click to expand...
We don't really know what Griffin will be going forward. That's certainly reason enough to not vote for him in this poll, but I don't see how someone can definitively say that Kaepernick will be faster than Griffin (or vice versa) when he returns. Some doctors say Griffin will never be the same. Some say they expect him to be back to where he was.If he's back to where he was, then Griffin is faster. If not, then Kaepernick will be faster.
 
'dgreen said:
'Short Corner said:
'Warrior said:
'Short Corner said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
and he sure as #### isnt faster
Click to expand...
wanna bet?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: on one knee maybe
Click to expand...
So are we building on the QB he was or the QB he is going forward?
Click to expand...
We don't really know what Griffin will be going forward. That's certainly reason enough to not vote for him in this poll, but I don't see how someone can definitively say that Kaepernick will be faster than Griffin (or vice versa) when he returns. Some doctors say Griffin will never be the same. Some say they expect him to be back to where he was.If he's back to where he was, then Griffin is faster. If not, then Kaepernick will be faster.
Click to expand...
I agree with this for the most part and am obviously in the camp that he won't be back to the same physical level when he returns. You also have to consider the psychological effect of the injuries. He made some poor decisions against SEA, staying deep and trying to take the read wide when there were obvious lanes for him taking the ball inside. Were these just poor reads or him wary of exposing himself to further injury? Plenty of question marks going forward IMO. At 100% he definitely gets the nod over CK, but not by enough that the current uncertainty keeps him there. Especially with CK's performance so far in the playoffs.
 
Russell Wilson. By a wide margin. And its not just because of what he did in the playoffs. He was doing what he did in the playoffs during the regular season as well. People just weren't watching, it was getting no press.Who really care how Wilson played in the first 5 or 6 games. He has shown tremendous growth and moved ahead of everyone else on this list by December. This is the guy you want. He's a very good passer already, making excellent reads with the football, and his ball placement is outstanding. He should be ROY.

 
'Riversco said:
Russell Wilson. By a wide margin. And its not just because of what he did in the playoffs. He was doing what he did in the playoffs during the regular season as well. People just weren't watching, it was getting no press.

Who really care how Wilson played in the first 5 or 6 games. He has shown tremendous growth and moved ahead of everyone else on this list by December. This is the guy you want. He's a very good passer already, making excellent reads with the football, and his ball placement is outstanding. He should be ROY.
Click to expand...
Apparently not. :lmao:
 
'Riversco said:
Russell Wilson. By a wide margin. And its not just because of what he did in the playoffs. He was doing what he did in the playoffs during the regular season as well. People just weren't watching, it was getting no press.Who really care how Wilson played in the first 5 or 6 games. He has shown tremendous growth and moved ahead of everyone else on this list by December. This is the guy you want. He's a very good passer already, making excellent reads with the football, and his ball placement is outstanding. He should be ROY.
Click to expand...
He strikes me as the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.
 
'SacramentoBob said:
Tough call. All I can do right now is say I definitely don't want it to be Ponder or Locker. Cam Newton has the ability to be the best player on that list. I would say Luck, RG3, Newton or Dalton. Kind of not fair to some of the guys on this list since they haven't even played a full year yet.
Click to expand...
Dalton should not be anywhere near this conversation
 
'Captain Quinoa said:
'Riversco said:
Russell Wilson. By a wide margin.
Click to expand...
you've got a little something on your chin there
Click to expand...
After seeing Wilson in a few games. He was impressive but he wasn't making the throws that Brady/Manning make. Of course he is a rookie so it is early but he rarely forced it in there. This probably sounds stupid but it often seems he waits for the guy to be wide open when Brady/Manning throw to covered guys. Certainly, his legs are a big part of the amount of time he gets in the pocket, but I just don't see him consistently getting the amount of time he has gotten thus far. So perhaps I should give Wilson an incomplete, but I have yet to see him make the difficult throws. And as far as Wilson/Kaep, and even RGIII, a lot of their value is tied to the future of the read-option/pistol offense. If DC are able to effectively turn the numbers back into the defenses favor then I'm not sure how good these guys will be. I don't see the pistol offense as a gimmick in the sense it is going to be easily defended and I think it'll be around for a while at least in some capacity.
 
'Captain Quinoa said:
'Riversco said:
Russell Wilson. By a wide margin.
Click to expand...
you've got a little something on your chin there
Click to expand...
Riversco = ITS?Just seems one was invisible yesterday and today after weeks of talk...and riversco seemed to drool all over Wilson during yesterday's game and now today.BTW...its a hugely hard choice to make here. Nobody is widely ahead of anyone else.Kaep looked great against GB...but has struggled other times.RGII is a beast but his running style and wreckless abandon may leave himself out there for injuries like what he sustained. Not sure I want a guy who could basically just be Vick 2.0 to build around.Id probably settle on someone like Cam or Luck. Cam seems to have the good of guys like Kaep and RGIII but with that big ol frame he should not get hurt as much. But I worry about him and how his leadership seems questioned very often.Wilson is interesting...if he had the size of Cam he would probably be a no brainer here because of his poise and decision making ability.
 
'money.never.sleeps said:
people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
You might want to check your facts:Wilson's 1st 5 games: 79/125 (63%), 815 pass yards (6.5 YPA), 5 pass TD, 5 INT, 80.5 QB rating, 92 rush yards, 0 rush TD, 3-2 team record

RGIII's 5 game stretch between 10/7-11/4: 86/138 (62%), 923 pass yards (6.7 YPA), 4 pass TD, 2 INT, 87.2 QB rating, 295 rush yards, 2 TD, 1-4 team record

RGIII most definitely did have "hiccups," but that's not to be unexpected, with rookie QBs. If Griffin's knee heals, I think both guys will be very good QBs.

 
'money.never.sleeps said:
'Seekay said:
'money.never.sleeps said:
Wilson/Kaep arent in RG3's potential ballpark.. people need to look at how crappy Wilson was the first what 5-6 games.. RG3 didnt have those hiccups
Click to expand...
Kaep isn't in RGKnee's ballpark based on what? His knee aint shot. He is physically bigger and stronger. He has a stronger arm. I think the guy can and will only get better. Give him a full season as the starter. Allot of QBs in their first playoff game would of been rattled after throwing a INT for a TD. Guy was amazing after that.
Click to expand...
Difference... RG3 was good from the get go on a crap team.. Kaep took over a team that was in the NFC Champ game.Stronger arm? Idk about that.. and he sure as #### isnt faster so tell me why Kaep is better?BTW.. the packers D wasnt that great.. seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg
Click to expand...
Washington played what 4 teams all year who made the playoffs? They were 2-2 in those games. As bad as the Redskins were as you claimed, they won a game with Kurt Cousins. So that sorta takes away from the "It was all RG3" argument. The majority QBs in the league would be a step up from Rex Grossman (thats not saying much) Then again I never was comparing the teams they played for I was comparing the players and their physical attributes. You wanna talk who is faster? A guy who is healthy or a guy who is coming off a second major knee surgery. I had knee surgery a few years ago. After the first year you still tend to get the pains, aches and tweaks. Until RG3 proves he is the second coming of Adian Peterson, odds are that he is not. As for this commment "seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg" sounds more like you are trying to build a legend for this guy then to actually trying to debate a question. I have Kaepernick in a dynasty league and would never consider trading him for RG3. Simply cause I think RG3 is going to flame out.Oh yea one more thing. I never actually said he was faster than RG3 you did. I said bigger and stronger.
 
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Of the obvious top 5, Luck is the most likely to have a 15+ year career. You just have to worry about the health of these QB's that are so adept at running the ball. If you build an offense around a running QB, when, not if he gets hurt, the whole offensive strategy has to change... the running weapon disappears. So, I'd go with the most traditional QB with the great arm (not saying the others don't have great arms), and that would be Luck.Show me a running QB that has played an entire season and can still throw the ball. Newton might be that exception, but he isn't the QB the other running rookies are either. Maybe I'm just anti-Vick here...awesome speed, strong arm, fragile and inconsistant.

 
'Seekay said:
Washington played what 4 teams all year who made the playoffs? They were 2-2 in those games. As bad as the Redskins were as you claimed, they won a game with Kurt Cousins. So that sorta takes away from the "It was all RG3" argument. The majority QBs in the league would be a step up from Rex Grossman (thats not saying much) Then again I never was comparing the teams they played for I was comparing the players and their physical attributes.

You wanna talk who is faster? A guy who is healthy or a guy who is coming off a second major knee surgery. I had knee surgery a few years ago. After the first year you still tend to get the pains, aches and tweaks. Until RG3 proves he is the second coming of Adian Peterson, odds are that he is not.

As for this commment "seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg" sounds more like you are trying to build a legend for this guy then to actually trying to debate a question. I have Kaepernick in a dynasty league and would never consider trading him for RG3. Simply cause I think RG3 is going to flame out.

Oh yea one more thing. I never actually said he was faster than RG3 you did. I said bigger and stronger.
Click to expand...
Isn't this a bannable offense?
 
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'Neofight said:
'Seekay said:
Washington played what 4 teams all year who made the playoffs? They were 2-2 in those games. As bad as the Redskins were as you claimed, they won a game with Kurt Cousins. So that sorta takes away from the "It was all RG3" argument. The majority QBs in the league would be a step up from Rex Grossman (thats not saying much) Then again I never was comparing the teams they played for I was comparing the players and their physical attributes.

You wanna talk who is faster? A guy who is healthy or a guy who is coming off a second major knee surgery. I had knee surgery a few years ago. After the first year you still tend to get the pains, aches and tweaks. Until RG3 proves he is the second coming of Adian Peterson, odds are that he is not.

As for this commment "seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg" sounds more like you are trying to build a legend for this guy then to actually trying to debate a question. I have Kaepernick in a dynasty league and would never consider trading him for RG3. Simply cause I think RG3 is going to flame out.

Oh yea one more thing. I never actually said he was faster than RG3 you did. I said bigger and stronger.
Click to expand...
Isn't this a bannable offense?
Click to expand...
Your attempt at humor amusing me. Just stating facts...try it sometime.
 
'Seekay said:
'Neofight said:
'Seekay said:
Washington played what 4 teams all year who made the playoffs? They were 2-2 in those games. As bad as the Redskins were as you claimed, they won a game with Kurt Cousins. So that sorta takes away from the "It was all RG3" argument. The majority QBs in the league would be a step up from Rex Grossman (thats not saying much) Then again I never was comparing the teams they played for I was comparing the players and their physical attributes.

You wanna talk who is faster? A guy who is healthy or a guy who is coming off a second major knee surgery. I had knee surgery a few years ago. After the first year you still tend to get the pains, aches and tweaks. Until RG3 proves he is the second coming of Adian Peterson, odds are that he is not.

As for this commment "seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg" sounds more like you are trying to build a legend for this guy then to actually trying to debate a question. I have Kaepernick in a dynasty league and would never consider trading him for RG3. Simply cause I think RG3 is going to flame out.

Oh yea one more thing. I never actually said he was faster than RG3 you did. I said bigger and stronger.
Click to expand...
Isn't this a bannable offense?
Click to expand...
Your attempt at humor amusing me. Just stating facts...try it sometime.
Click to expand...
My great auntie had a knee surgery a few years back. She is still hobbled.How was that?

 
I say its clearly Luck. I'm lucky to have Luck/Dalton in 1 league and Stafford/Newton/Wilson in another so I'm hoping to be set at QB for a while in them

 
Luck is the easy call here. After him it's tough between Cam, Griffin and CK but I'll go with Cam since he seems like he'll be the most durable and more proven than CK.

 
'cstu said:
Luck is the easy call here. After him it's tough between Cam, Griffin and CK but I'll go with Cam since he seems like he'll be the most durable and more proven than CK.
Click to expand...
No Wilson?I find the divide of opinion on these QBs to be fascinating. Only time will tell who is the right pick.

 
Luck for me. Really like what Wilson did this year though. The fact that he isn't as reliant on running makes me like him a little more than RG3, Cam, and Kaep.

 
'Jewell said:
'cstu said:
Luck is the easy call here. After him it's tough between Cam, Griffin and CK but I'll go with Cam since he seems like he'll be the most durable and more proven than CK.
Click to expand...
No Wilson?I find the divide of opinion on these QBs to be fascinating. Only time will tell who is the right pick.
Click to expand...
Newton and Kaepernick both need to become better passers to become real long term solutions and enter this conversation, though Cam is ahead. Wilson and RGIII are ahead of both. I hope RGIII comes back as strong as before and isn't rushed. If he can learn to slide and become less dependent on the run then I like him as much as Wilson. Right now Wilson is a passing QB who can run; and his height and build, while thought to be a liability when he is in the pocket, is a huge advantage over Kaepernick and RGIII when scrambling or on designed runs that hit traffic. He runs like a RB, or a slower Steve Smith. The taller run first guys run like gazelles, and it's both beautiful and nerve wracking to watch.

 
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'Neofight said:
'Seekay said:
'Neofight said:
'Seekay said:
Washington played what 4 teams all year who made the playoffs? They were 2-2 in those games. As bad as the Redskins were as you claimed, they won a game with Kurt Cousins. So that sorta takes away from the "It was all RG3" argument. The majority QBs in the league would be a step up from Rex Grossman (thats not saying much) Then again I never was comparing the teams they played for I was comparing the players and their physical attributes.

You wanna talk who is faster? A guy who is healthy or a guy who is coming off a second major knee surgery. I had knee surgery a few years ago. After the first year you still tend to get the pains, aches and tweaks. Until RG3 proves he is the second coming of Adian Peterson, odds are that he is not.

As for this commment "seattle was upper tier and RG3 was on 1 leg" sounds more like you are trying to build a legend for this guy then to actually trying to debate a question. I have Kaepernick in a dynasty league and would never consider trading him for RG3. Simply cause I think RG3 is going to flame out.

Oh yea one more thing. I never actually said he was faster than RG3 you did. I said bigger and stronger.
Click to expand...
Isn't this a bannable offense?
Click to expand...
Your attempt at humor amusing me. Just stating facts...try it sometime.
Click to expand...
My great auntie had a knee surgery a few years back. She is still hobbled.How was that?
Click to expand...
LMAO. I can't figure out who is more desperate for attention you or Nikki Minaj. I never said I was playing in the NFL. I never made a comparison between myself and RG3. I said I had a major knee surgery and had aches and pain in the following year like allot of other people who have had it.

I dont think you need to be a coach, player, GM or owner in the NFL to see that majority of the players coming back from major knee surgery take a step back and some are never the same.

Now why don't you get some Aloe and go ask your great Auntie to rub it on your behind cause you seem a little butt hurt.

 
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'Raider Nation said:
Still Luck, but the gap has closed considerably.

Kaepernick is SCARY good. It looks like he's still playing against San Jose State sometimes, and he probably still has room to grow tremendously in terms of reading defenses. But in the end, give me the classic pocket gunslinger who is more likely to suit up every week.
Click to expand...
Many good points in this thread, but it was this that resonated most with me. I don't consider spread zone option or pistol based offenses as "gimmicky," as, like the Wildcat, they have proven successful (to varying degrees) in the NFL. BBut from a talent perspective, I think it's harder to build and maintain a team around these kinds of attacks for the long term, and easier to build and maintain a more traditionally based offense.

And as mentioned here and elsewhere, the degree of probability of QB injury goes up considerably in the spread options. NFL caliber QBs are a huge investment for teams, and it's not optimal to expose that kind of investment to the risk that comes with running them often in the open field.

Maybe I'm too old school. There are huge advantages in installing a high-tempo, offense that not only gives a QB more plays during a game, but that many more reads and choices per play in an option/spread offense. But there is a reason why traditional attacks have stood the test of time -- no school like the old school, as they say.

 
For me it's Luck. As long as they keep a decent line in front of him and provide him some weapons, he should have many consistent years as a top 5 qb. Wilson is second on my list. I have not seen a lot of him in the pro game, probably about 3 games worth. I did see a lot of him in college though. Watching him play, he reminds me a bit of Elway. Not the same arm, but composure, watching him move around the backfield,and command of the game. The pro game is not to big for him and he really seems to be a natural leader out there.

 
I think Cam lacks votes cause of his immature antics at times. Im guessing not many want to build their team around him and and investing in him.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'dgreen said:
'KellysHeroes said:
Cam needs more votes
Click to expand...
Other than Luck, the votes are going to guys who have played well most recently. We have a hard time remembering back more than a couple weeks.
Click to expand...
Cam is likely also downgraded in people's minds because he is not associated with winning on the pro level, and the other QBs are. I understand that can be unfair since football is such a team sport, but Luck, Wilson, Kaepernick, and RG3 have led their teams to the playoffs and Newton has not. That skews the view of Newton as a guy you want to build your team around.
 
I am a big Wilson fan but he benefits greatly from stellar OL and RB play. How great would Luck be with similar support?

 
'dgreen said:
'KellysHeroes said:
Cam needs more votes
Click to expand...
Other than Luck, the votes are going to guys who have played well most recently. We have a hard time remembering back more than a couple weeks.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:Recency bias FTW!Personally I'm taking Cam or Luck - it's really a toss-up - but there's a very wide gulf between them and anyone else on the list.In terms of Cam's "antics" and "lack of leadership", remember that people said all the same things for years about LeBron James. I'm sure if you'd held a poll halfway through the Heat's first season with LeBron, many people would have said they'd rather have someone else to build their franchise around. Surround Cam with the kind of talent (coaches as well as players) on the Seahawks' or 49ers' roster and we're not even having this conversation IMO.
 
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