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Dynasty Value: Manuel v Geno (1 Viewer)

Geno or Manuel

  • Geno

    Votes: 45 22.2%

  • Manuel

    Votes: 158 77.8%
  • Total voters
    203
Give me Manuel. The Buffalo offense just got a major overhaul and they have alot of nice pieces for the rookie to be successful with. They've got faith in the kid and I can see him stepping in year one as the starter. The situation in New York seems like a catastrophe. Geno will probably have a whole new coaching staff next year unless they surprise. I just don't like it whatsoever and think Manuel will have a much softer landing into the NFL.

 
Whichever team brings them along slowly. It's fine if they open the playbook a little but if they take their time and know they will go through the growing pains and don't expect too much at first, they could be really good. I went EJ in the vote because of supporting cast though.

 
I'm happy to go against the grain and say Geno Smith.

Pre-draft he was ranked higher by most scouting services and probably most NFL teams as well. He's going to be a much better QB in my humble opinion. The fact that Buddy Nix and Doug Marrone felt differently and took Manuel instead has the whole FF world jumping on the bandwagon, but I think following their lead is a big mistake. The fact that one front office chose to draft Manuel in the first round doesn't mean anyone else has to think it was a good idea. To me he was a 3rd-5th round prospect, well below Smith. Manuel has serious bust potential, and if I had to bet I'd say he'll do just that. Smith I think will turn out to be pretty decent. Time will tell.

 
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Bruce Hammond said:
I'm happy to go against the grain and say Geno Smith.

Pre-draft he was ranked higher by most scouting services and probably most NFL teams as well. He's going to be a much better QB in my humble opinion. The fact that Buddy Nix and Doug Marrone felt differently and took Manuel instead has the whole FF world jumping on the bandwagon, but I think following their lead is a big mistake. The fact that one front office chose to draft Manuel in the first round doesn't mean anyone else has to think it was a good idea. To me he was a 3rd-5th round prospect, well below Smith. Manuel has serious bust potential, and if I had to bet I'd say he'll do just that. Smith I think will turn out to be pretty decent. Time will tell.
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I think sometimes we make a really quick switch from talent mode to situation mode pre then post draft. I might be guilty here too...

I do think Geno is the more NFL ready QB right out of the gate here and Manuel is definitely more of a project. If Geno were going to Buffalo, I'd love that situation for him and I'd have no doubt of him succeeding. I really like what Buffalo is doing and that is why I'm going with Manuel here. If Geno were going anywhere other than New York, I'd probably have him higher than Manual in Buffalo - Arizona, Philly, Kansas City... ANYWHERE but New York. Going to such a toxic situation in New York with the locker room and media chaos, I just don't see it being a good situation for a rookie QB to go in and succeed. I think he could be scarred for his career starting in New York. I could be wrong, but it's just horrible in my eyes.

 
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Bruce Hammond said:
I'm happy to go against the grain and say Geno Smith.

Pre-draft he was ranked higher by most scouting services and probably most NFL teams as well. He's going to be a much better QB in my humble opinion. The fact that Buddy Nix and Doug Marrone felt differently and took Manuel instead has the whole FF world jumping on the bandwagon, but I think following their lead is a big mistake. The fact that one front office chose to draft Manuel in the first round doesn't mean anyone else has to think it was a good idea. To me he was a 3rd-5th round prospect, well below Smith. Manuel has serious bust potential, and if I had to bet I'd say he'll do just that. Smith I think will turn out to be pretty decent. Time will tell.
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Totally agree with this.

 
I can't deny that NY is a circus for the time being, and that is a negative. But situations change, and surrounding talents change, coaching staffs change. After the Sanchez fiasco I think Smith has more rope than most incoming QBs not drafted in the first couple of picks because they don't want two disasters in a row on their hands. Plus he's going in pissed off, not scared IMO. Other QBs have succeeded in that city, and so can he. But I'm not suggesting Smith is going to be a fantasy stud, just serviceable. What I am suggesting though is that Manuel won't cut it. His accuracy is bad, his pocket presence is bad, leadership skills, etc. My vote for Smith isn't so much FOR Smith but AGAINST Manuel. I just don't think he makes it in the NFL as a starter. I think he'll turn out to be another miss like Losman in Buffalo and I'm staying away.

 
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Geno Smith for me.

It is just too hard for me to pick a guy that is such a work-in-progress over a guy that has played so much. Granted, everyone has a wart in this draft. That is why they aren't Andrew Luck, but in a comparison of the two, I can much easier see Geno becoming a solid QB in the league. I have the gut feeling that we will look back and see Manuel as "the guy everyone in Buffalo thought was going to be their Kaeprnick, but wasn't".

We have to keep in mind that Kaepernick played a lot of games in college and then got the chance to sit for over a season and had the benefit of excellent coaching. Manuel won't get that.

 
I know this is just a little thing but I hated watching Geno hang his head while waiting to be picked. Did Rodgers do that while he slid? I don't think he has a good emotional makeup. I really don't know enough about Manuel. In the end I think it might be none of the above.

 
Warhogs said:
I know this is just a little thing but I hated watching Geno hang his head while waiting to be picked. Did Rodgers do that while he slid? I don't think he has a good emotional makeup. I really don't know enough about Manuel. In the end I think it might be none of the above.
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I had made a comment or two about that in another thread somewhere. I was actually more disappointed that his paid professional advisors didn't do more to ensure he was (literally) keeping his chin up and remaining positive. My first reaction was that it does make you think if this is an extension of his attitude on the field, given the criticisms that were similar.

However, after mulling it over a bit I am reminded of three things:

-He's a young kid and I can't tell you how many times I have seen otherwise very level-headed kids lose their composure when something is a big deal to them and I have to imagine that this is the biggest of deals to him. If anything, this shows a certain level of passion for football and his role in it.

-Often times, the players who display the most open emotion, one way or the other, are the ones that really shine when they are jacked up and into the game. I think I can see aspects of that behavior of Geno Smith on the field at times.

-I remember Colt McCoy handling his slide like a slick pro...and he sucks. So what does this really tell us about playing on the field overall?

 
Warhogs said:
I know this is just a little thing but I hated watching Geno hang his head while waiting to be picked. Did Rodgers do that while he slid? I don't think he has a good emotional makeup. I really don't know enough about Manuel. In the end I think it might be none of the above.
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Yes.

 
Definitely Geno for me. I will admit that I watched him more this year (I live in Big 12 country) but the guy looks to me like he could be a very good NFL QB. The game against Baylor this past year, for any that saw it, was just silly. It was like he was out there in a game of Tecmo Bowl. Every game that I saw him play, his accuracy was excellent, he had good touch and seemed to command the field well.

Manuel did not look special to me in the games that I saw. He looked like he was a very good QB but never like someone who would come in and have a real shot at being special in the NFL. The games I saw (Florida and then the ACC Championship against Georgia Tech) he did not play particularly well in, so my opinion may well be skewed by that as well.

The situation is WAY better for Manuel and because of that his next year or two may be better. But I think Geno is better in the long run. Geno may also be more likely to completely bust out of the NFL given his situation but I will take the talent over the situation here.

 
Geno fired his agent because he wasn't taken in the first round?

This isn't starting off on the right foot.

There was talk of him beind a diva... this somewhat affirms that stance.

The New York media should love this, and him.

:popcorn:

 
Warhogs said:
I know this is just a little thing but I hated watching Geno hang his head while waiting to be picked. Did Rodgers do that while he slid? I don't think he has a good emotional makeup. I really don't know enough about Manuel. In the end I think it might be none of the above.
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I liked the fact that he came back day 2.

 
werdnoynek said:
Geno fired his agent because he wasn't taken in the first round?

This isn't starting off on the right foot.

There was talk of him beind a diva... this somewhat affirms that stance.

The New York media should love this, and him.

:popcorn:
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Why didnt Geno participate in the Senior Bowl?

 
Bruce Hammond said:
I'm happy to go against the grain and say Geno Smith.

Pre-draft he was ranked higher by most scouting services and probably most NFL teams as well.
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I'm not sure that's a safe assumption. I think many of us assumed that because Kiper and those kind of analysts kept telling us this over and over and over.

I think Geno can throw the ball better but I don't like his situation at all. The next QB Rex Ryan develops will be the first and there is a lot more pressure on Geno than Manual too. Another benefit it sounds like Manual will get is some read option stuff in the Buffalo offense where those rushing yards will add up too.

 
Geno.

I think his agent gave him bad advice by not playing in the senior bowl. Heck thats the only reason the Lions took Ziggy was the one on one time they had with him at the senior bowl

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Bruce Hammond said:
I'm happy to go against the grain and say Geno Smith. Pre-draft he was ranked higher by most scouting services and probably most NFL teams as well.
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I'm not sure that's a safe assumption. I think many of us assumed that because Kiper and those kind of analysts kept telling us this over and over and over. I think Geno can throw the ball better but I don't like his situation at all. The next QB Rex Ryan develops will be the first and there is a lot more pressure on Geno than Manual too. Another benefit it sounds like Manual will get is some read option stuff in the Buffalo offense where those rushing yards will add up too.
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One out of two potentially if Geno makes it... I'm not sure how much you can or can't blame Ryan for what Sanchez has become, but he was the indisputable QB2 in 2009 when a QB was needed for the Jets. I know it's easy to say 'Well just don't reach on a QB for needs', but it's the one position you pretty much have to as a new coach coming into the league without a QB in place. As far as I care, the Ryan Qb-situation is a null-value to Geno's situation until Ryan proves particularly diminutive to QB performance in whichever way possible. They're both starting in rebuilding, young offenses, one with more weapons than the other, so to me it's really up to who you think is more talented/has more upside and which will live up to that. If you legitimately think Geno can throw the ball better, and I agree, and given what upside I think he has, I don't think situation can come into either preference at all. IF he's talented enough, and Ryan goes out the door, it shouldn't matter (in dynasty). Well prefer Geno.
 
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I'm definitely on the Manuel train. Marrone/Hackett seem pretty intent in running read option and an uptempo offense like the one they had at Syracuse. They have surrounded manuel with tons of speed - Spiller, Goodwin, Graham, Gragg, Woods... not to mention Stevie Johnson. They may fail, but if they hit, Manuel will have roughly the same value as Kaepernick. I agree with the anywhere but the Jets argument for Geno. I think Geno represents decent value in rookie drafts because of his ability to run read option and high collegiate productivity, but his surrounding cast and organization don't give me that much hope. QB is also one of the only positions where I will add/deduct value for draft slot. The Bills are much more likely to stick with Manuel for 2-3 years. Smith is a second round pick, so chances are if there's a new regime next year, they might not attached to Smith.

 
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Buffalo seems to have everything set in place for success while the Jets appear to be a train wreck, but I like Geno Smith more than Manuel. I believe that Kirwin said the other day that he hopes none of this year's quarterbacks start from the get-go as they are not ready. Manuel will likely start and that might not be so good for the long run.

I think Sanchez will wind up starting for the Jets because it is too costly to cut him and either late thia year or next,, Smith will be more ready.

 
Stephen Holloway said:
Buffalo seems to have everything set in place for success while the Jets appear to be a train wreck, but I like Geno Smith more than Manuel. I believe that Kirwin said the other day that he hopes none of this year's quarterbacks start from the get-go as they are not ready. Manuel will likely start and that might not be so good for the long run.I think Sanchez will wind up starting for the Jets because it is too costly to cut him and either late thia year or next,, Smith will be more ready.
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Let's say Manuel and Geno both sit for the first 8 weeks, but start in week 9. Does that change your ranking of the two?

 
Regarding Bloom' s question, for this season, I would probably give the edge to Manuel as I much prefer the Bill's weapons to what the Jets have on offense. But long term dynasty, I would take Geno Smith to be more productive over their careers.

 
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I'm not so great at projecting rookies, but I went with Manuel over Geno, largely for running stats potential which he seems to have over Smith. Matt Waldman described him as a poor man's Kaepernick-not as good as an athlete and not quite the cannon that Kaepernick has but in that vein. Geno seems to be more of a pocket passer.

To project a bit further, if everything works out for Manuel he can become maybe a QB8 ish fantasy player. I don't see Geno as a fantasy starter.

 
Manuel has a better set of offensive weapons to work with and has a clearer path to the starting job at the moment (although I do think that Sanchez is playing on borrowed time). He was also drafted higher, so it isn't shocking that he is winning this poll.

 
i say manual because i think the jets ruin people it is just sort of sad to see they are just a badly run organization right now and will probably wreck geno now to get rid of rex and clean house and maybe i just do not see it now though brohans

 
Sigmund Bloom said:
I'm definitely on the Manuel train. Marrone/Hackett seem pretty intent in running read option and an uptempo offense like the one they had at Syracuse. They have surrounded manuel with tons of speed - Spiller, Goodwin, Graham, Gragg, Woods... not to mention Stevie Johnson. They may fail, but if they hit, Manuel will have roughly the same value as Kaepernick. I agree with the anywhere but the Jets argument for Geno. I think Geno represents decent value in rookie drafts because of his ability to run read option and high collegiate productivity, but his surrounding cast and organization don't give me that much hope. QB is also one of the only positions where I will add/deduct value for draft slot. The Bills are much more likely to stick with Manuel for 2-3 years. Smith is a second round pick, so chances are if there's a new regime next year, they might not attached to Smith.
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Hammer, meet nail.

 
Rotoworld:

Jets OC Marty Mornhinweg downplayed reports about Geno Smith's up-and-down spring and insists the second-round pick is "way ahead of the pace of a normal rookie."
"I think Geno's close," added Mornhinweg. "I don't think he's there yet. But he's close to being able to get into a game and function at a high level. So our whole challenge — and his challenge — is that first preseason game." The Jets open the preseason on August 9 against Detroit. Early reports indicate Mark Sanchez has a lead in the QB race, but Smith can't be ruled out yet.


Source: New York Daily News
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A fairly significant portion of Geno Smith's 2015 and 2016 compensation is tied to his participation in the Jets' voluntary offseason program.

Smith must participate in the otherwise voluntary drills to collect $276,328 in 2015 and $414,491 in 2016, which are abnormally big workout bonuses for a rookie deal. As PFT's Mike Florio points out, the contract structure may hint at internal concerns the Jets have about Smith's work ethic. It's perhaps also notable that the deal was brokered by Smith's agency, Jay-Z's "Roc Nation."

Jul 22 - 11:24 PM

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
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Geno Smith told the Charleston Gazette that he "likes his chances" of winning the Jets' quarterback job.

"I feel like I have a great chance," Smith said. "I did a pretty good job overall of just adapting to the system and playbook and felt very comfortable with it by the end of OTAs and mandatory camp." Earlier this month, Mark Sanchez stated he "absolutely" expects to win the starting job. Both the New York Daily News and ESPN New York believe Smith is "unlikely" to be the Week 1 starter.

Jul 22 - 9:00 AM
Source: Charleston Gazette
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The NY Daily News agrees with ESPN New York that second-round pick Geno Smith is "unlikely" to be ready to start Week 1.
Smith is still "working to improve his dropbacks" after playing in West Virginia's shotgun spread. In New York, Smith is learning Marty Mornhinweg's West Coast offense, which requires precise fundamentals in order to play consistently. Even in the college shotgun offense, Smith's footwork was a major concern and frequently led to accuracy issues. We tentatively expect Sanchez to open the season as the Jets' starter, but he'll have a short leash.


Source: New York Daily News
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ESPN New York reports the Jets are "toying with the idea" of using Geno Smith as a "change-of-pace quarterback" if he doesn't win the starting job.
This sounds like a leftover idea from the spit-ballin' Tony Sparano "era." Coach Rex Ryan first mentioned the idea last month. Per reporter Rich Cimini, Smith would have a package of "mainly" read-option plays that could "exploit his speed." Smith is a plus athlete, but stayed confined to the pocket at West Virginia. Learning the read-option as a rookie backup has "failure" written all over it. The possible experiment will become moot if Smith beats out Mark Sanchez in camp. Thus far, Cimini has deemed Smith's Jets showing as "lackluster."

Related: Mark Sanchez

Source: ESPN New York
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Coach Rex Ryan and QBs coach David Lee acknowledged that Geno Smith has had some difficulty adjusting to the West Coast offense.
"His system at West Virginia, there’s no similarities there whatsoever," Lee said. Ryan agreed with Lee and said that Smith wouldn't be able to play in an NFL game if one was tomorrow. "He came from a system that this is not a surprise," Ryan said. "He came from a system that primarily was in a shotgun system. His steps -- dropbacks -- his mechanics footwork wise weren't dialed in the way they'll have to be at this level. I think some of that is your five and seven step drops, it's all new to him. ... I think when we get out to training camp and we have that time we'll see if he's ready or not ready."


Source: Newark Star-Ledger
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Coach Rex Ryan said the Jets could have a read-option package in place for rookie QB Geno Smith if he doesn't win the starting job.
If this sounds familiar, it's because this is exactly what Ryan said the Jets would do with Tim Tebow. They proceeded to show zero creativity whatsoever and Tebow ended up getting 32 rushes and eight passing attempts all season. Although Mark Sanchez has reportedly been impressing at OTAs and minicamp, Smith's sights should be firmly set on the starting gig.

Related: Mark Sanchez

Source: Rich Cimini on Twitter
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Rotoworld:

BuffaloBills.com insists the club won't rush E.J. Manuel, but that the "opportunity is there" for him to start.

Manuel and Kevin Kolb split minicamp reps evenly after Tarvaris Jackson was cut loose. Manuel was encouraged by his performance. "I thought I got better every day," he said. "I feel very comfortable around the coaches, my teammates and the guys on offense as well as defense." We've believed all along that Kolb is the slight favorite for Week 1, but that Manuel will make starts as a rookie.

Jul 8 - 8:38 AM
Source: buffalobills.com
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Bills coach Doug Marrone calls first-rounder E.J. Manuel the most impressive rookie quarterback he's ever seen.

Marrone spent seven years as an NFL assistant, so it's high praise. Of course, we wouldn't expect Marrone to be unimpressed with a player he's staked his job on. Manuel has been running as the No. 3 quarterback in Bills OTAs, but should get every opportunity to earn the starting job in camp.

May 31 - 12:33 PM

Source: Bills on Twitter
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Bills OC Nathaniel Hackett admits first-round pick E.J. Manuel needs work on "everything."
Hackett's comments come two days after Manuel said the Bills' playbook was easier to pick up than Florida State's. "He’s a young man that’s got to work on a lot of things from footwork to progressions to plays to formations, everything," Hackett said. "Defenses in the NFL are obviously a little different. He’s got to work on that too. He’s got to work on everything."


Source: buffalobills.com
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E.J. Manuel believes the Bills offense has been easier to learn than Florida State's.
Somewhere, coach Doug Marrone is wondering if that's good or bad. "To be honest, it’s a true West Coast type progression offense and that’s really what I wanted coming through the pre-draft process where I could just go in and go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and just check it down or run," Manuel said. "It’s that simple and I love it." Manuel should learn in the preseason that he doesn't have this NFL thing figured out just yet.


Source: buffalobills.com

May 20 - 11:20 AM
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Geno Smith's career could easily go the path of Jimmy Clausen. The Jets are serious contenders for being one of the worst teams in the league. If that happens, a whole new staff will be there in 2014, and they will have no ties to Geno Smith. You think they will pass on Bridgewater or Johnny Football because of Geno Smith, if Smith looks horrible this year? Nope.

As such, Manuel just has to be ranked ahead of Smith unless you just happen to be a firm believer that Smith is going to be a star.

 
shader said:
Geno Smith's career could easily go the path of Jimmy Clausen. The Jets are serious contenders for being one of the worst teams in the league. If that happens, a whole new staff will be there in 2014, and they will have no ties to Geno Smith. You think they will pass on Bridgewater or Johnny Football because of Geno Smith, if Smith looks horrible this year? Nope.

As such, Manuel just has to be ranked ahead of Smith unless you just happen to be a firm believer that Smith is going to be a star.
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If that happens, so be it. I think Bridgewater is better than Smith.

 
shader said what i think i just really do not like genos chances with rex around and when everyone next year is new after they finally can the showboat rex why would they wnat to feel stuck with someone elses guy i just do not see it man i feel lousy for geno maybe he can go to jax and they can finally move darlene gabbert into a role as a hot dog vendor take that to the bank brohans

 
A friend of mine that went to WVU said a big reason for their teams collapse mid season was because Geno slept with one of the other players girlfriends and it basically divided the team in half. Between that and the pouting he did in the draft, I see Geno out of the league in a few years. Not sure how well Manuel will hold up, but I think Geno is a ##### and full of himself. Works fine for some players, but the talent isn't there with him. Plus, the Jets isn't necessarily the best organization for him to be in to straighten up.

 
I really think body language in the first round is a silly thing to consider when making a prediction on someone's pro prospects.

The way a 21-year-old kid behaves while being embarrassed on TV, as cameras roll on him the entire time....I don't blame him for being disappointed.

He wasn't a very likable guy before the draft. and went to a pretty unlikable team.

But playing, actually playing football, there weren't too many people talking Manuel ove Smith pre-draft.

I don't watch much college football, so I have no idea on the question at hand, but I am seeing a lot of negatives about Smith that I am not sure matter on the field.

 
Probably worth revisiting this as camp and preseason moves along because from what we're hearing from camp, it's looking more likely that both might be starting sooner rather than later. If so, they both come more into consideration as late round QB2 redraft fliers, rather than just dynasty considerations. Personally I'm more interested in people's views on their prospects for fantasy production in the next 2-3 years rather than in longer-term dynasty leagues.

 
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