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League Disaster - looking for input (1 Viewer)

C

CariocaSean

Footballguy
A new owner (a rookie) is brought into a league that has a lot of experienced players, some of whom have been playing in the same league together for close to twenty years.

Non-PPR standard scoring, redraft, 12 teams, money league, QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, WR, K, TD.

Trade 1: rookie (who owns Ray Rice) trades Graham and Kendall Hunter for Bernard Pierce and Eric Decker middle of last week. Graham owner also has Brees. The league ridicules rookie owner and is in a mild uproar over trade, but we don't have majority veto and our rule is no veto unless collusion is involved.

Trade 2 happened tonight: rookie trades Colin Kaepernick and Roddy White for Terrelle Pryor and Pierre Thomas. Rookie does have Phillip Rivers, but also has Ray Rice, Pierce, Woodhead, BJGE. This trade was not with the same owner as the above trade.

The league is in an absolute uproar right now. Lots of collusion accusations with this second trade (the other owner brought rookie in and is a good friend). Talking about locking the rookies roster or replacing him mid season and reverting both trades.

Any ideas from anyone? Reverse the second trade (we feel it was either collusion or the rookie owner quitting) and lock the rookies roster? Reverse both and bring in a new owner (we have one lined up)? Leave as is?

 
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$ involved? If not, that's what sometimes happens when bringing a moron into your league. League ruined unless you revert and boot.

 
This is a rare case where in my opinion it seems like collusion. Since the friend brought the rookie owner in and traded with him, it's totally fishy. Obviously people have different views on players and what not. But, Graham is a dynasty asset to build around. I do see Pierce and Decker being young pieces for the future though.

The second one is even worse because Kaepernick and Pyror are similar rushing QB's but Kaepernick is in a much better situation and is a much better player overall. Thomas is an aging veteran who will be out of the league soon so I don't see any value in getting him.

 
Matty2D said:
This is a rare case where in my opinion it seems like collusion. Since the friend brought the rookie owner in and traded with him, it's totally fishy. Obviously people have different views on players and what not. But, Graham is a dynasty asset to build around. I do see Pierce and Decker being young pieces for the future though.

The second one is even worse because Kaepernick and Pyror are similar rushing QB's but Kaepernick is in a much better situation and is a much better player overall. Thomas is an aging veteran who will be out of the league soon so I don't see any value in getting him.
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Redraft league... Thanks for the input, but I think everyone can agree that both trades were bad.

 
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Kaep + 32 year old Roddy white for Pryor + Pierre Thomas

Not a trade I would do, but it's not exactly Aaron Rodgers + Julio Jones for Pryor + Pierre Thomas here.

Just let it go.

 
What is the disaster? I can see a new player making these trades. I can see an experienced player making these trades. What is the problem with dumping Kaepernick? His production sucks. Roddy White's production sucks. Pryor could easily end up as a top 5 QB. Decker has huge value.

What is the relevance that the other owner has Brees? That can't possibly be relevant even if there is collusion, and makes me think the old timers just don't want any deviation from the status quo, or regret not exploiting the noob.

Do you not think this person really exists? If he exists, what is the problem? I don't see it. You think he gave up after 3 weeks and starting shipping his good players to help his friend? Doubtful.

Kick him out at the end of the year if you don't like him.

 
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Not deals I'd make, but banning owner mid-year is terrible. Sounds like a group of jealous owners. Presumably you decided as a group to allow trading and no owner vetoing (latter I agree 1000000% with if allowing trades). Let the guy manage his own team. He paid the fee.

If you don't want him returning next year, that's your decision. And maybe your group should look into a 'no trade' league. Doesn't seem like they can handle it.

 
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Johnny Blood said:
What is the disaster? I can see a new player making these trades. I can see an experienced player making these trades. What is the problem with dumping Kaepernick? His production sucks. Roddy White's production sucks. Pryor could easily end up as a top 5 QB. Decker has huge value.

What is the relevance that the other owner has Brees? That can't possibly be relevant even if there is collusion, and makes me think the old timers just don't want any deviation from the status quo, or regret not exploiting the noob.

Do you not think this person really exists? If he exists, what is the problem? I don't see it. You think he gave up after 3 weeks and starting shipping his good players to help his friend? Doubtful.

Kick him out at the end of the year if you don't like him.
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Every trade can be rationalized the way you are rationalizing these... They aren't trades any experienced redraft owner would make. That much is obvious. But thanks for the input.

 
taking a look the values from the FBG top 200 for week 5:

Trade 1:

Rookie: Graham 45.4 + Hunter 1 = 46.4

Other Team: Pierce 3.2 + Decker 23.5 = 26.7

Trade 2:

Rookie: Kap 13.3 + White 11.2 = 24.5

Other Team: Pryor 1 + Thomas 4.6 = 5.6

 
phrozen said:
taking a look the values from the FBG top 200 for week 5:

Trade 1:

Rookie: Graham 45.4 + Hunter 1 = 46.4

Other Team: Pierce 3.2 + Decker 23.5 = 26.7

Trade 2:

Rookie: Kap 13.3 + White 11.2 = 24.5

Other Team: Pryor 1 + Thomas 4.6 = 5.6
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take this for what its worth but just bringing in the value perspective to each trade

 
if hes a new owner he may value players differently than people that have been playing for years. He probably bases a lot of value on how they are performing this year, and doesnt care the Roddy white is usually a consistant top wr and Kaepernick was awesome last year, they are both sucking this year pretty bad. You can use this to your advantage and try to get some under performing stars from his team relatively cheap.

 
CariocaSean said:
They aren't trades any experienced redraft owner would make. That much is obvious. But thanks for the input.
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They aren't trades the other people in your league would make, which is the league that chose to invite someone other than an experienced redraft owner!

He got Decker plus his Rice handcuff in the first trade. The whole game of fantasy is based on disagreement and uncertainty; it's ridiculous to freeze this guy's team and undo the trades for being an active owner.

 
I did tons of stupid stuff the first year I played. Not everyone has been playing 20 years. I personally think the guys whining need to tone it down and stop acting like teenage drama queen girls. The guy will figure how to manage a team in time. We aren't born knowing how to manage a fantasy football team.

 
CariocaSean said:
Johnny Blood said:
What is the disaster? I can see a new player making these trades. I can see an experienced player making these trades. What is the problem with dumping Kaepernick? His production sucks. Roddy White's production sucks. Pryor could easily end up as a top 5 QB. Decker has huge value.

What is the relevance that the other owner has Brees? That can't possibly be relevant even if there is collusion, and makes me think the old timers just don't want any deviation from the status quo, or regret not exploiting the noob.

Do you not think this person really exists? If he exists, what is the problem? I don't see it. You think he gave up after 3 weeks and starting shipping his good players to help his friend? Doubtful.

Kick him out at the end of the year if you don't like him.
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They aren't trades any experienced redraft owner would make.
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Not sure what this has to do with anything.

If you didn't want a rookie owner, you should not have allowed a rookie owner into the league. The solution here is simple: Don't invite him back next year if you don't like how he manages his team

 
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phrozen said:
taking a look the values from the FBG top 200 for week 5:

Trade 1:

Rookie: Graham 45.4 + Hunter 1 = 46.4

Other Team: Pierce 3.2 + Decker 23.5 = 26.7

Trade 2:

Rookie: Kap 13.3 + White 11.2 = 24.5

Other Team: Pryor 1 + Thomas 4.6 = 5.6
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David wilson went from 4 points to 21 points on that list in one week. Is the noob not allowed to be ahead of the curve if the rest of the league doesn't like it?

 
Johnny Blood said:
CariocaSean said:
They aren't trades any experienced redraft owner would make. That much is obvious. But thanks for the input.
Click to expand...
They aren't trades the other people in your league would make, which is the league that chose to invite someone other than an experienced redraft owner!

He got Decker plus his Rice handcuff in the first trade. The whole game of fantasy is based on disagreement and uncertainty; it's ridiculous to freeze this guy's team and undo the trades for being an active owner.
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Yeah I think we all pretty much agree that bringing in the inexperienced owner was a mistake. We were told he was a big NFL guy and we trusted our friend that he would be able to hack it.

Please stop trying to make the trades sound reasonable, though. They aren't.

 
Therefore trading Wilson for Pryor would warrant locking a team and undoing the trade, right?

I don't know what a "reasonable" trade is other than one that isn't collusion. If we're about to talk about "competitive balance" that's just code for thinking you have a crystal ball.

If you want him to make trades that you think are smarter that might come with experience, which it sounds like your league plans to deprive him of.

 
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Johnny Blood said:
phrozen said:
taking a look the values from the FBG top 200 for week 5:

Trade 1:

Rookie: Graham 45.4 + Hunter 1 = 46.4

Other Team: Pierce 3.2 + Decker 23.5 = 26.7

Trade 2:

Rookie: Kap 13.3 + White 11.2 = 24.5

Other Team: Pryor 1 + Thomas 4.6 = 5.6
Click to expand...
David wilson went from 4 points to 21 points on that list in one week. Is the noob not allowed to be ahead of the curve if the rest of the league doesn't like it?
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You are giving the 'noob' an awful lot of credit. You seem to think he is some kind of savant.

Could Pryor be better than Kaep? Sure. But it would be sheer dumb luck, and that is all.

If your input is just deal with it and move on, fine, that is valid input and definitely a legitimate option. But just stop trying to argue the trades. Not the input I am seeking. Thanks.

 
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I have no issues with either trade. No disaster at all! I have seen many trades that looked real good for team 'A' but as the year went on, team 'B' ended up getting the better end of the deal.

Nothing worse than playing in a league with a bunch of owners who think they have it all figured out.

 
I can't believe I didn't notice that the "winner" of the two trades are different people. So the noob is now colluding with two people for what mysterious purpose?

 
Warrior said:
$ involved? If not, that's what sometimes happens when bringing a moron into your league. League ruined unless you revert and boot.
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Seems a bit harsh. Dude might be new to fantasy football. Last year he probably didn't know any of the guys on his current roster.

This is what happens when you bring in a rookie with no former experience (presuming that).

 
2323 said:
I have no issues with either trade. No disaster at all! I have seen many trades that looked real good for team 'A' but as the year went on, team 'B' ended up getting the better end of the deal.

Nothing worse than playing in a league with a bunch of owners who think they have it all figured out.
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Yes. Pierre Thomas is going to be the answer...

 
Everyone crying about it wouldn't be crying if they'd gotten to, and sunk their claws into, the new blood first.

Terrible trades imo, but that's what the league gets for having a happy go lucky newbie come fumbling in.

 
Sandeman said:
Warrior said:
$ involved? If not, that's what sometimes happens when bringing a moron into your league. League ruined unless you revert and boot.
Click to expand...
Seems a bit harsh. Dude might be new to fantasy football. Last year he probably didn't know any of the guys on his current roster.

This is what happens when you bring in a rookie with no former experience (presuming that).
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Agree with the 2nd statement.

 
Sorry if i wasnt clear but i would not reverse trades or bring in a different owner. I would also keep him for as long as he wanted to be an owner. The best way to learn is by your own mistakes.

 
CariocaSean said:
Johnny Blood said:
What is the disaster? I can see a new player making these trades. I can see an experienced player making these trades. What is the problem with dumping Kaepernick? His production sucks. Roddy White's production sucks. Pryor could easily end up as a top 5 QB. Decker has huge value.

What is the relevance that the other owner has Brees? That can't possibly be relevant even if there is collusion, and makes me think the old timers just don't want any deviation from the status quo, or regret not exploiting the noob.

Do you not think this person really exists? If he exists, what is the problem? I don't see it. You think he gave up after 3 weeks and starting shipping his good players to help his friend? Doubtful.

Kick him out at the end of the year if you don't like him.
Click to expand...
Every trade can be rationalized the way you are rationalizing these... They aren't trades any experienced redraft owner would make. That much is obvious. But thanks for the input.
Click to expand...
Sorry...what is White's current redraft value?

Let the guy do what he wants. He can't score Roddy's points from last year. Oh, you guys think he will turn it around with the nagging injury...

 
zoonation said:
CariocaSean said:
HurryUpSundays said:
CariocaSean said:
HurryUpSundays said:
Money league?
Click to expand...
yeah, clarified above.
Click to expand...
How much money league?

Not clarified above.

Yes, it matters.
Click to expand...
$100 buy in.
Click to expand...
Lol.

Suck it up for the year then.
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Ah, yes. The guy who laughs at other people's buy ins and corrects peoples spelling errors. Great contributions and probably give you a warm fuzzy feeling too.

It's not really about the money. It's about the league history, good friends, having been in a league for 20 years together.

 
zoonation said:
CariocaSean said:
Johnny Blood said:
What is the disaster? I can see a new player making these trades. I can see an experienced player making these trades. What is the problem with dumping Kaepernick? His production sucks. Roddy White's production sucks. Pryor could easily end up as a top 5 QB. Decker has huge value.

What is the relevance that the other owner has Brees? That can't possibly be relevant even if there is collusion, and makes me think the old timers just don't want any deviation from the status quo, or regret not exploiting the noob.

Do you not think this person really exists? If he exists, what is the problem? I don't see it. You think he gave up after 3 weeks and starting shipping his good players to help his friend? Doubtful.

Kick him out at the end of the year if you don't like him.
Click to expand...
Every trade can be rationalized the way you are rationalizing these... They aren't trades any experienced redraft owner would make. That much is obvious. But thanks for the input.
Click to expand...
Sorry...what is White's current redraft value?

Let the guy do what he wants. He can't score Roddy's points from last year. Oh, you guys think he will turn it around with the nagging injury...
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White > Pryor and Thomas combined. Just based on what he would do if he does overcome his injury. Yes he is killing owners who drafted him in the third round, but to throw your WW scraps away for him as a stash is gold.

 
It's a redraft. Let the new guy learn. Either that, or kick him out now. I would just let the new guy learn. These mistakes only have an effect for this year, so after a year the new guy should understand what his crap deals meant to his roster and the league. You need to put down the mutiny by making sure everyone understands what your decision is.

 
CariocaSean said:
White > Pryor and Thomas combined. Just based on what he would do if he does overcome his injury. Yes he is killing owners who drafted him in the third round, but to throw your WW scraps away for him as a stash is gold.
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Not right now he isn't. And he might not be for the rest of the year. The Graham deal was really bad though. Just tell him to watch the points of the guys he dealt away and keep note of that the next time he considers a trade.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
It's a redraft. Let the new guy learn. Either that, or kick him out now. I would just let the new guy learn. These mistakes only have an effect for this year, so after a year the new guy should understand what his crap deals meant to his roster and the league. You need to put down the mutiny by making sure everyone understands what your decision is.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is probably really the only thing to do here. Appreciate all constructive comments though - just looking for some input.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
CariocaSean said:
White > Pryor and Thomas combined. Just based on what he would do if he does overcome his injury. Yes he is killing owners who drafted him in the third round, but to throw your WW scraps away for him as a stash is gold.
Click to expand...
Not right now he isn't. And he might not be for the rest of the year. The Graham deal was really bad though. Just tell him to watch the points of the guys he dealt away and keep note of that the next time he considers a trade.
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Well I guess I just disagree with you. Because if given the choice between Pryor and Thomas or White I would take White. Agree the Graham deal was the worse of the two. But I think people are a little hasty to discount White and Kaepernick here.

 
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CariocaSean said:
zoonation said:
CariocaSean said:
HurryUpSundays said:
CariocaSean said:
HurryUpSundays said:
Money league?
Click to expand...
yeah, clarified above.
Click to expand...
How much money league?

Not clarified above.

Yes, it matters.
Click to expand...
$100 buy in.
Click to expand...
Lol.

Suck it up for the year then.
Click to expand...
Ah, yes. The guy who laughs at other people's buy ins and corrects peoples spelling errors. Great contributions and probably give you a warm fuzzy feeling too. It's not really about the money. It's about the league history, good friends, having been in a league for 20 years together.
Click to expand...
I apologize. If this was a big money league i think the will of the majority would carry more weight. But the guy made what we all agree are bad trades but you can't kick him out for it. The fact is White may have no value all year. He looks awful and is getting no separation. His injury may linger all year. He is basically unstartable right now.Would i trade kap for prior? No. But could we be wrong? Maybe. Prior could finish higher.

The point is that if there is no collusion the league takes the lumps. Kicking him out wreaks of misguided and jaded paternalism.

 
You've told me I'm not giving the input you're looking for. Well, the thread title asks for input. In any case, here's the input I want:

What evidence do you have for the collusion claims?

My reading of your own description of the situation, simply granting you are correct about the winners and losers, is this: only the noob's "friend" was shark enough to respond properly to the initial trade. That's the opposite of collusion.

 
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CariocaSean said:
MoveToSkypager said:
CariocaSean said:
White > Pryor and Thomas combined. Just based on what he would do if he does overcome his injury. Yes he is killing owners who drafted him in the third round, but to throw your WW scraps away for him as a stash is gold.
Click to expand...
Not right now he isn't. And he might not be for the rest of the year. The Graham deal was really bad though. Just tell him to watch the points of the guys he dealt away and keep note of that the next time he considers a trade.
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Well I guess I just disagree with you. Because if given the choice between Pryor and Thomas or White I would take White. Agree the Graham deal was the worse of the two. But I think people are a little hasty to discount White and Kaepernick here.
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I tend to agree with you, but who knows? I love Roddy but he is showing nothing right now.

 
I think you should go one step further just to prevent this crap from happening again. Collapse the league and take your $1100 profit and take a road trip. Win-win for you.

 
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