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Gordon and Gurley: Two of the best? Or two of the best in a long time? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter georg013
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I don't think either are transcendent talents. I'm a Badger fan and love me some Gordon - and he's definitely the best RB in the nation this year, but he's not the second coming of Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson or anything.
I think he compares to a DeMarco Murray or a slightly poorer version of Jamaal Charles - Gordon doesn't have the long speed of Charles. Even if he's a Murray clone... it took several years and the best o-line in the league for him to be a valuable fantasy commodity.
I think he compares to a DeMarco Murray or a slightly poorer version of Jamaal Charles - Gordon doesn't have the long speed of Charles. Even if he's a Murray clone... it took several years and the best o-line in the league for him to be a valuable fantasy commodity.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I think Gurley is an ascendant talent. The knee complicates things a bit, obviously, but if you think he'll recover from that then I'd absolutely make a strong move for him. It's very rare to find guys with those tree trunks for legs alongside the speed and acceleration that he has. Throw in the lateral agility on top of that and he's a special running back.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I think Gurley easily would have been an excellent RB.
Now I just think he probably will be.
Now I just think he probably will be.
georg013
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Havent watched him nearly enough to know. I watched most of the OSU/Wisc game, but really can't get any kind of read after that one.
cstu
Footballguy
It was nice to see him catch some passes. Concerning though that in 4 games against ranked teams he only had 2 catches for 2 yards.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Don't really get this, if he proved he can catch and RAC, what does the competition matter? He can either catch or he can't, once he's got the ball he's a RB again...you don't suddenly drop more passes as a RB against better defenses. I think it's just a quirk of the stats that he wasn't targeted against the ranked teams. Or more accurately, a quirk of the Wisc offense. It just isn't a big part of what Wisc does.
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I agree and think it his lack of receptions was a function of the team. What matters almost as much as receiving ability, maybe even more, is pass blocking. I had no idea how Gordon rated in this department but was surprised to read this past week a few scouts think he excels at pass pro and is superior to Gurley in that department. If that part of his game is up to snuff the receptions will take care of themselves when he reaches the NFL.
The RB class of 2013 ended up being pretty good with Bell, Lacy, Gio, and Ellington. On paper, especially this time of year, that group did not seem very impressive at all but ended up being the best group to me since the 2008 draft. I don't see a special ADP type runner in this draft but Gordon and Gurley are both good enough to break the non-first round RB streak and as a class I think this RB group will rival the 2013 and 2008 classes.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Well, Trent/Martin/Wilson/Miller was looking like a pretty nice group at one time, let's not forget that. Think about where the first four were going in start-ups that offseason. Oops. And Bryce Brown looked good too.
Things can go sideways quickly.
Bell looks like a stud, granted.
Ellington looks terrible as a full-time RB.
Gio's star is fading with the emergence of Hill. Looks much better in the Woodhead role than running the ball.
Lacy's toe issue pops up and who knows.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Gurley looked great, like a total can't miss for the NFL. He was just so damn quick, fast, strong, and moved so well to and through holes, and in the open field.
I am pretty convinced he is total suckage for the 2015 season, so basically how high do you take him knowing:
1- he is a waste for 2015 (barring a miracle comeback at the end, but thats rare for a rookie)
2- He MIGHT not recover 100%. Some guys have lately, great. That does not mean he will. Not sure what % I put on it, but maybe 75% sure he recoveres fully. That is a factor for the value.
3- If he does recover fully, plays some this year, and is fully read for 2016, he has as good of stud potential as any RB in the draft in recent years.
He was easily my #1 pick pre injury. Amazingly, he still might be.
I am pretty convinced he is total suckage for the 2015 season, so basically how high do you take him knowing:
1- he is a waste for 2015 (barring a miracle comeback at the end, but thats rare for a rookie)
2- He MIGHT not recover 100%. Some guys have lately, great. That does not mean he will. Not sure what % I put on it, but maybe 75% sure he recoveres fully. That is a factor for the value.
3- If he does recover fully, plays some this year, and is fully read for 2016, he has as good of stud potential as any RB in the draft in recent years.
He was easily my #1 pick pre injury. Amazingly, he still might be.
Andrew74
Footballguy
I have the 1.01 and Gurley is still the pick for me, unless something significant comes out about his recovery. I am not in need of immediate production, so that helps.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
No. But the narrative wasn't that it would be a constant problem, it was that it would shorten his career.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Clearly we have different opinions on what we saw when we watched Ajayi. I came away not impressed at all other than the rare ocassion he came up with a nice catch. Just doesn't look good to me.
As for Gordon and Gurley. Gurley is/was/always will be my #1 for this class. I'm hoping to get in position to draft him everywhere I can and if that happens to be a nice slip because of his injury then I'm more than willing to take a chance on the best RB prospect since Trent Richardson. Gordon is very good as well but I have him in a separate tier than Gurley. I expect both to be top10 dynasty RB's this season (although Gurley will take a little longer to have the production to justify that). I am not worried.
CR69
Footballguy
He has good balance and decent vision from what I've watched, but I wouldn't say he's fast. Looks like a mid 4.5 guy to me. I also don't think he's very nimble and runs awkward for lack of a better word. He does have nice hands, didn't see him pass block much though. Nowhere near the level of Gordon or Gurley, but could be a decent back.
Was never big on Miller and in most drafts I was in the was going after Hillman and Pead. This time of the year Martin was not even on peoples radar, similar to how Bell was not this time of year. But all in all I felt that RB class lacked depth. Don't think their top two are as talented as the top two this year and the depth to me is not close.ConnSKINS26 said:
Things can go sideways quickly for RB's, period. No position like RB can seemingly lose value as quickly. Gio is great example. He's providing solid value and one fairly minor injury that knocks him out a few weeks was all it took to open the door for Hill. That's all it took for Gio to go from Rb1 to a guy I'm not sure I even put in my lineup.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
No, I meant AFTER their rookie years. People though Trent and Martin were stone-cold lock studs and that Wilson and Miller were next. Trent and Martin were first round start-up picks and Wilson/Miller were 2nd-3rd round startup picks.
But otherwise I agree, no position turns over and spits in the face of what we "know" faster than RB.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Maybe prototypical was the wrong word, meant within range of what is expected at the position. He's not fast, but he is easily fast enough.
Sorry, did not know you meant after their rookie year but my opinion after year one was pretty similar. I erroneously thought Trent was fantastic and the only startup I did that off-season I took him 1.3(Martin went 1 or 2 but I'd have taken Trent over him). In that same startup I took Wilson at 3.3 but for about 6-8 picks he was my highest rated player available. Still was not high on Miller or any other RB's from that class after their rookie years. For me not a lot changed from how I viewed the class entering the NFL to how I viewed them a year later. Saw it as Trent-Martin-Wilson and a giant void when they entered the league and that's how I saw it a year later. I was wrong of course but that's how I saw it.
Not to get off subject, I just never thought at any time that class was deep and I never viewed Martin as a big time talent so much as a solid player in a really ideal situation. I did view Trent and Wilson as big time talents.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
What do people think of Michael Dyer outside of his obvious red flags? I know there was a lot made of him outproducing Bo's freshman numbers at Auburn. He had a great game against Florida State this year before drawing another sign of immaturity with his academic ineligibility.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Ive watched most of his games in his career. He has shown power up the middle and breaking tackles quite often.Bazinga! said:
Showed it in the bowl game ...the 4th and one play the safety is at him at the 15 yard line and he stiff arms and carries the guy into the endzone. Sure...he has had huge holes...but I don't think you gain that many yards and have that high of a yard per carry average if you go down easy.
To me, he reminds me of Ahman Green. Fast, but not the fasted...blend with good power and strength and ability to catch the ball.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think this is an important decision point as far as who to select with the 1st overall pick. In most league formats the first pick will likely be one of these 2 RB. Gordon or Gurley.
From watching both players again recently, I think both are very good RB. Gurley is more impressive to me in terms of his ability to break tackles and play through contact. But Gordon to me shows better vision and quickness to burst through small openings in the defense. Gurely played against better defenses and Gordon had an advantage of higher quality offensive line play. So that makes it somewhat difficult to compare them fairly. Gurley has shown more ability as a receiver than Gordon who didn't get many opportunities to catch the ball. Gordon has been very durable while having a larger workload than Gurley who is currently still recovering from a ACL injury.
Overall I think Gurley is the better player based on the games I have watched. But it is close. Because it is close I favor a safer route of targeting Gordon 1st overall but I recognize that Gurley may indeed be the best rookie of this draft and doing that could be a mistake. But I expect Gordon to be capable of RB1 numbers if all goes well for him. So I feel more comfortable about ranking Gordon ahead of Gurley for now. In PPR I would likely choose the safety of WRs Cooper and Parker over Gurley as well.
I am not expecting to get actionable information about Gurley's health until after the NFL draft. There will be new information from the combine medical evaluation of him. But there is a lot of smoke that is going to be blown around as well. Good and bad. And it will be difficult to trust that information once silly season is underway. If Gurley is able to do anything at his pro day that would be an excellent sign regarding his recovery. But if he is still limited then I am not seeing any definitive information regarding his health being reliable until after the NFL draft when we know which team takes him and how high.
From watching both players again recently, I think both are very good RB. Gurley is more impressive to me in terms of his ability to break tackles and play through contact. But Gordon to me shows better vision and quickness to burst through small openings in the defense. Gurely played against better defenses and Gordon had an advantage of higher quality offensive line play. So that makes it somewhat difficult to compare them fairly. Gurley has shown more ability as a receiver than Gordon who didn't get many opportunities to catch the ball. Gordon has been very durable while having a larger workload than Gurley who is currently still recovering from a ACL injury.
Overall I think Gurley is the better player based on the games I have watched. But it is close. Because it is close I favor a safer route of targeting Gordon 1st overall but I recognize that Gurley may indeed be the best rookie of this draft and doing that could be a mistake. But I expect Gordon to be capable of RB1 numbers if all goes well for him. So I feel more comfortable about ranking Gordon ahead of Gurley for now. In PPR I would likely choose the safety of WRs Cooper and Parker over Gurley as well.
I am not expecting to get actionable information about Gurley's health until after the NFL draft. There will be new information from the combine medical evaluation of him. But there is a lot of smoke that is going to be blown around as well. Good and bad. And it will be difficult to trust that information once silly season is underway. If Gurley is able to do anything at his pro day that would be an excellent sign regarding his recovery. But if he is still limited then I am not seeing any definitive information regarding his health being reliable until after the NFL draft when we know which team takes him and how high.
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