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cobalt_27

Member Since 11 Apr 2003
Offline Last Active Today, 08:29 PM
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In Topic: INTENTIONAL OR NOT, How Much Do YOU Think Racism Impacts NFL Draft Pos

01 April 2014 - 02:51 AM

I think one thing is pretty  certain.  There is no racism in FF drafts.

 
That's a fair point, Guru. 
 
The money involved is of course just -slightly- different, but there are obvious parallels between real NFL football and fantasy football. 
 
Have you guys ever felt like an owner in your fantasy draft passed over a player because of race? For fantasy owners I would guess the chance that's happened is extremely rare.
 
J
 
I haven't. I've seen a few people pass on players due to "character issues" though. But "character issues" covers a lot of ground from "likelihood of being suspended" to "I don't like thugs". Race is pretty defined.
 
What if people are more likely to believe that blacks have "character issues," given the same set of observations?
 
Then I guess that would fall into passing on a player due to race. I've just never seen anything that overt in any FF league I was a part of. Players coming off suspensions, players 1 strike away from missing a season, players with criminal charges pending --- I've seen those players avoided by some FF owners.
 
I don't think it's overt, I think it's rationalized. Marshawn Lynch blows 0.08 on a breathalyzer and people call him a thug; Jim Irsay has $30K worth of drugs in his car and people say he's an alcoholic.

Before mischaracterizing this as a race issue, let's review the record: Lynch not only has been charged with a DUI (.10), context was it occurred hours before he was set to attend a youth football camp. Back in 2008, he stole $20 from a woman, right out of her hand; unfortunately the woman was a cop's wife (so bizarre). Several years later he's charged and pleads guilty to a hit-and-run of a woman he clips with his Porsche and drives on. And, he has a felony charge for concealed weapon, to boot. Certainly not the worst rap sheet we've seen from an athlete, but he's no Russell Wilson, either.

To insinuate we're all engaging in "rationalized" racism with Lynch is pretty disingenuous.

In Topic: Matt Waldman: 75% chance Bridgwater falls due to racism

30 March 2014 - 02:25 PM

http://www.tidesport...13_NFL_RGRC.pdf


Very interesting. :goodposting:

In Topic: INTENTIONAL OR NOT, How Much Do YOU Think Racism Impacts NFL Draft Pos

30 March 2014 - 02:12 PM

How is this topic not worthy of the SP? It has draft ramifications, roster implications and overall NFL impact. It's a veiled attempt to deter attention away from the other thread and "controversy", but still a topic that belongs in the SP IMO.


Exactly. We talk about everything under the sun about what impacts the draft, from footwork to vision to diet to team philosophies to idiot GMs. Anything under the sun, you name it, and it's discussed here. Waldman drops the race card, a lot of us start having acid flashbacks to the 1980s and prior when race was clearly a relevant factor, a lot of us start scratching our heads, doing a double-take, and so we add this into the mix. Personally, I don't think race plays a relevant role. But, one prominent staffer does, and it seems worth exploring to what extent, if at all, race does factor into GMs and executives' decisions.

Just because there are political and social undercurrents to a topic doesn't mean it's inappropriate for the SP.

In Topic: Matt Waldman: 75% chance Bridgwater falls due to racism

30 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

Well, after considering his podcast, his response to this thread, his 2012 article, and his most recent article http://mattwaldmanrs...-your-mercedes/ ...putting this all together, I think it's safe to assume Waldman has Bridgewater ranked comfortably as his #1 QB in his RSP. Which means, if Bridgewater isn't the first QB selected and/or he falls out of the top-15, then Waldman will feel vindicated that NFL execs and GMs are a bunch of racist fools.
And, if Bridgewater is selected QB1 and in the top-10, then the 25% safety net kicks in, and Waldman will still maintain that NFL execs and GMs are a bunch of racist fools.
Incidentally, I'm not sure what Waldman's issue is with the NFC exec who referred to Leftwich as "soft," if it meant he missed a lot of time to injury. We all know about and remember the heroics he put on at Marshall playing on a broken leg. That ain't soft, that's one tough sob. In that regard. However, Leftwich's NFL career was marred by at least 32 weeks where he was listed as either on the IR or "doubtful," or "out" due to injury (e.g., ribs, elbow, tailbone, ankle, knee). By that standard maybe "soft" has nothing to do with race, but simply reflects that the guy was injury-prone and that the NFC exec has the same concerns for Bridgewater, who had an assortment of ankle, thumb, and wrist injuries and probably needs to fill out his frame a bit to survive the pros for a long time as a franchise QB.
Or, maybe Waldman's right, and the exec is a racist.
:shrug:


Can you please quote where Matt said that NFL execs were "a bunch of racist fools" or even strongly implied that?
His position was far more subtle than any of that. I know some people think his position was outrageous, but the counterpoints have reached just as "ridiculous" of a level of hyperbole and foolishness.

If you haven't heard Waldman's podcast comments or read his response here or read the Mercedes article, you should. His implication throughout is that execs are making foolish arguments and decisions based on race. I don't see how that interpretation is even in question.

I have listened and I have read the article in question. I see your interpretation of both as hyperbolic and unfair. However unlike some people in this thread, I will not say that you are wrong or attack you personally for feeling that way. To be fair to you, you have been fairly level headed in your criticisms of Matt and have not really crossed any lines, unlike some.
Matt's insertion of racism into the discussion, imo, was more directed at how a black QB may be held to different standards or be elevaluated differently based on the stereotype that black QBs are athletes and not cerebral field generals. Perhaps since Bridgewater is not an athletic freak, and more a traditional pocket passer, his skin color could have some effect on how he is perceived as an NFL prospect. The black QBs that many cite as counter examples of QBs being drafted highly (Newton, Griffin, Manuel) fit the athletic QB mold - and many questioned their ability to read defenses and become pocket passers. However they were drafted because of their running ability, strong arms and potential, despite many thinking they weren't necessarily great QBs in the traditional sense. Since Brdigewater is much more Tom Brady than Cam Newton, his skin color could be a detriment. I'm not sure I buy that in this day and age, but don't feel it's an outrageous position to take.
As an example, I remember back when Jamarcus Russell was a prospect coming into the league and I read posts here at FBG which talked about his dynasty prospects and how his rushing stats would greatly enhance his fantasy production. Meanwhile I could probably beat the guy in a foot race. That's the subconscious, subtle or indirect racism Matt may be bringing into focus. Why was it assumed that Russell was a running QB?
Why can't that be discussed for what it is rather than the insults, personal attacks (towards his wife, friends and choice of pets), and distortions of his position that I've seen from many in this thread?

I am fully willing to embrace the possibility that my interpretation of his position represents a distortion. I don't believe it is, given the totality of what I've heard and read from him, thus far. But, I have questioned how he came to say/write what he did and asked both broad and specific questions that would help clarify.

To be clear, he does not owe any of us an explanation for anything. However, an explanation would sure go a long way in helping to understand his perspective a little more. As I have mentioned several times already, he explains his thought process for everything else. In fact, it's one of the things that sets him apart amidst the hundreds upon hundreds of pages he writes explaining this thinking on the RSP. So, it's a little unusual to me why, if he feels so strongly about this, why he doesn't come out and talk about it a little bit more. The racism comment clearly was not off-the-cuff, just some sort of random slip up. He evidently has thought a lot about this. But, for some reason he has backed way the hell far away from helping provide any deeper understanding to why he feels the way he does.

And, perhaps this is one area he doesn't feel like he has a good handle on articulating the things he sees and hears that make him believe TB will likely (i.e., 75% chance) fall in the draft due to racism. Maybe this is all a big understanding, but with a topic area as sensitive as this, with the centerpiece of Waldman's own professional world coming up in the draft, with the comments he's made about one of the biggest names in the draft, and asserting a position that billion dollar teams will willingly or subconsciously pass on the better player because of skin color, I'm a bit disappointed he is declining to expand on this and illuminate what he sees is actually going on.

In Topic: Matt Waldman: 75% chance Bridgwater falls due to racism

30 March 2014 - 07:31 AM

Serious question - did he say that anyone with the opinion that Teddy isn't the best QB prospect in this draft class is motivated by racism? Even dorks on the Internet? I haven't listened to the podcast.


No. I'm pretty certain he didn't say that.