Teachers should teach for the entire class. Not teach a problem a couple of times then assign them 100 problems to do on their own time. Don't pass the buck off, do you job or you'll only see more kids skip the crappy public schools in favor of the private schools that actually want to teach.

If my kids have to learn their subjects mainly outside of class then honestly, they need to dock teacher's pay even more. It's not right to half ### it in class then pass the buck off then get full salary.

And that was pretty much the norm when I went to HS (late 80s) so nothing has changed which is too bad.

I heard a recomendation of 3 trimesters that are seperated by about 3 week breaks that go all year.

I am not sure it isnt a bad idea

:shakescane:

FYI, you sound really old here. Lazy and self-absorbed is exactly how Baby Boomers view Gen Xers. Now that we're getting older are those of us in Gen X supposed to look down on the younger generations? Damn whippersnappers, back in my day...

I only read the first page, but my opinion is that if you eliminate homework - especially in high school - it will make college more difficult for students.

When I was in High School I almost never took home homework. I would simply do the work from one class in the following class, or sit in the library at lunch and finish it. I never took books home and never studied for a test. I cruised through high school with A's and B's and easily got into college.

Once college started though, I was not prepared for the effort that was necessary. I had no study habits and no discipline for sitting down and doing an assignment. The methods that worked so well for me in high school were useless at the college level. Needless to say, I dropped out of college after two years with horrible grades.

After working for about a year or so I decided I wanted to go back to school. I was afraid I'd struggle again, so when I re-registered I signed up to take a small seminar on how to succeed in college. Most of it was BS - but I did learn a few key study habits that proved to be extremely useful. I adopted new study habits and finally finshed college on the Dean's List.

And for what it's worth - I have a daughter in third grade. She gets homework every night of the week except Fridays, and normally it only takes her 30-45 minutes tops to complete it. I'll always check her work and make her re-do whatever she gets wrong. Some nights it's math, some it's grammar. Each week they get 20 spelling words on Monday and they are tested on Friday - so I work with her on those every night for about 15-20 minutes. Usually a couple nights a week she'll have reading homework, but on the nights she doesn't, she does independent reading that the kids get extra credit for - so she reads every night.

I disagree. How about students should learn the entire class? Teaching doesn't = learning. I'm sure you'll agree with that.

Now, how should we utilize our time during class to insure that students are learning?

I refused to do homework my entire academic career and I turned out OK. (in hindsight I can probably thank ADD for that)

And compared to my parents generation, my generation was/is lazier and more self-absorbed. And there is no question in my mind that the next generation is exponentially lazier and more self-absorbed than mine. Don't you see this leading to a problem if the trend isn't reversed?

And, by the way, I'm 41. Not sure if you consider that old or not.

Why do you keep assuming that the majority of the students are so competent in math that they automatically know everything and have no need for repitition and practice?


Oh this must be why. Again I think this does not represent the majority.

Okay this is the 500th time I have made comments on this theme in this thread, it's akin to , I'm passing the torch. Good luck.

Nip

Here's an interesting article I found regarding the educational differences between Asian countries (Japan, Korea, etc) and the United States:

LINK

Here's what it said about the homework:


"The initial findings from the TIMSS analysis of the U.S. and Japan highlight similarities between students' learning experiences at home but critical differences between those at school. On the one hand, the TIMSS researchers found that students in both countries spend a relatively comparable amount of time on self-study and in leisure activities after school. First, Japanese and U.S. students spend between 30 minutes and an hour studying mathematics outside of school, and about the same amount of time studying science. Second, heavy TV watching is as common among U.S. eighth graders as it is among their Japanese counterparts.

These patterns imply that Japanese students do not differ from U.S. counterparts in out-of-school learning experiences. However, there are differences neglected in the TIMSS highlights. After-school private tutoring practices (juku) that complement formal schooling or prepare students for high-stakes exams are pervasive in Japan (see Goya, 1993; Harnisch, 1994; Rohlen, 1980). This is also the case for many other Asian nations that outperform the U.S. in mathematics and science, including Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan. For example, a national survey of Korean middle/high school students shows that the average student receives about 7 hours of tutoring services every week (Shin, et al., 1991).1"


SNOTBUBBLES CONCLUSION: It's not the homework that the student does that improves his skills in a particular subject area, its the individualized tutoring to prep for exams that make the difference.

I agree completely just had way too many teachers who didn't give 100% when I went to HS and I was in a top 5 public school at the time in the whole state of Texas. **

Main problem is that teachers now spend so much time on the troubled kids in class that the ones who want to learn suffer. Typically, it's the little ****'s who get the attention while the good kids have to endure the bs.

Teachers need to teach for the whole class and I am sure you being a teacher can at least agree that not all teacher's do this for the whole class. I mean, teachers have the entire summer off so is it too much to ask for them in the time they teach to do it for the whole time (:50 minutes)??? Way too many *pop* quizes and way to many *busy work* during class and as HW is done. Make it completely efficient. Good student's don't want the teacher to do one or two problems then have the students do the next x problems on their own for the next 15 minutes. That's a 1/4 of the class time spent where the teacher isn't teaching.

** Hint: Same HS that Michael Dell went to

I think we can all agree that baby boomers were/are the worst generation out of the three.

Just giving an example, can replace math with any subject.

I know you are a teacher and put more thought into this than I did, but I always thought the point of homework was to get the parents involved in the education of their children.

I don't see the point in excessive homework but I think the benefit of having a parent monitor and work with their child regularly could only have a positive influence on the childs value and perception of education.

No homework good idea.

No, we can't.

Can't think of a more self absorbed generation. What are ya? Peace loving hippies in the 70's or self absorbed BMW materialistic yups in the 80s? That generation changes with the weather.

This sounds like the way it should be.

Wow, maybe if you did your homework you would have had a great academic career instead of just OK.

Third grade?!?! Good grief wait until she hits HS, talking 2 - 3 hrs minimum average per night. I routinely had almost twice that amount at least a few times a week.

Rhino,

From the time I was in 5th grade until I graduated high school, I had an hour of study time set aside each day to do homework whether I had it or not. Even with a structured environment like that I was no more prepared for college then you were.

I too dropped out with poor grades, went back got on deans list and then went to law school. IMO, college is more about being responsible for yourself (go to class, do the assignments, prepare for each class) and not about how smart you are or how structured you previous studies were.

[quote name='RKMoney' post='5703360' date='Oct 11 2006, 03:51 PM'][quote name='roadkill1292' post='5703327' date='Oct 11 2006, 01:47 PM']
[quote name='RKMoney' post='5703289' date='Oct 11 2006, 03:42 PM']
[quote name='CrossEyed' post='5701376' date='Oct 11 2006, 09:51 AM']
[quote name='Disco Stu' post='5701124' date='Oct 11 2006, 11:21 AM']
[quote name='CrossEyed' post='5700407' date='Oct 11 2006, 08:47 AM']
What bothers me is that, in general, we continue to ask less and less of our children. We don't expect them to work hard. We don't expect them to be responsible. We don't expect them to be respectful. We're only concerned that they are happy and having a good time. We're raising a generation of lazy, self-absorbed hedonists and I have a feeling that we're going to pay a big price for it.[/quote]
:shakescane:

FYI, you sound really old here. Lazy and self-absorbed is exactly how Baby Boomers view Gen Xers. Now that we're getting older are those of us in Gen X supposed to look down on the younger generations? Damn whippersnappers, back in my day...
[/quote]
And compared to my parents generation, my generation was/is lazier and more self-absorbed. And there is no question in my mind that the next generation is exponentially lazier and more self-absorbed than mine. Don't you see this leading to a problem if the trend isn't reversed?

And, by the way, I'm 41. Not sure if you consider that old or not.
[/quote]

I think we can all agree that baby boomers were/are the worst generation out of the three.
[/quote]
No, we can't.
[/quote]

Can't think of a more self absorbed generation. What are ya? Peace loving hippies in the 70's or self absorbed BMW materialistic yups in the 80s? That generation changes with the weather.
[/quote]
Well, I was gonna let you off the hook with that remark, figuring it was just a poorly thought out throwaway line. But it appears that you really do believe your own gross over-generalization. Please try to do better.

I don't see anything wrong with a half hours worth of work. What's the big deal? Hell, if she wasn't doing homework she'd probably be sitting in front of the TV or the computer. In my mind it's time well spent doing a little extra work on math, reading or whatever. And like I said - I usually work with her, checking her math or quizzing her on spelling. It's a good way for me to get involved in what she's doing in school and it lays the ground work that she knows my wife and I are going to be involved in how she's doing in school - so she better not goof off.

RK:

Ever think because you had "so much" homework that your teachers did more in class throughout the year enabling you and the rest of your class to succeed at a higher level? It appears to me and maybe others that you are now slapping the hand that fed you and not thanking that same hand for all the times it did feed you.

Your college life was aided by the effort your high school teachers put forth to better yourself. Without "so much" homework you may not have been prepared for college as good as you were. College, without the homework in high school, may have turned out much different for you. Who is to say?

[/endquestion]

When I was student teaching I was given different methods from my coop teacher and I picked a path to follow. On one such occassion a senior student of mine after I handed out homework that was due approximately a week later uttered outloud "so we are teaching ourselves." I heard this and was taken aback by it and as it was near the end of class was not prepared to answer said response. I went home, thought it over, and first thing the next day in class I responded to some of the things that were going on in this class... this comment in particular.

I was not mad or frustrated and of the classes I was teaching this one was the rowdiest but the best one as well. But, at the same time I was asking them in a rhetorical sense where the line is? They have to take responsibility for their education at some time. If I "teach" them for 50 minutes a day everyday they will not learn that whole time. Students, any age really, but high school especially need to have a sense of responsibility put on them. Teachers teach something, homework is assigned to reinforce, enhance, whatever is/was taught.

I never had a problem with any students in this class after this and by the end of the semester this student was on the same level with me going forward. She said what she thought she should have and I responded accordingly... bettering the class as a whole by doing so. Homework in that class was more efficient than the other classes and better completed than other classes. No homework in high school would never work and it is not helping students but hurting them in the long run much more.

Okay I am getting the band back together for this one last comment (until you say something else that sets me off) so here goes:

Fine then answer this question: Why do you keep assuming that the majority of the students are so competent in [INSERT ANY SUBJECT HERE] that they automatically know everything and have no need for repitition and practice?

Thank you Springton there will be no encore!

HW def helped me in the classes where I needed more help but only wasted my time in the classes where I was doing well. I just felt more times that not that teacher's gave out HW because they felt like they needed to that's all. The last thing I wanted to do at night/evening was spend time on HW assigned to me that didn't help me one bit over doing HW in other classes to get better and/or sports or hanging out with family, etc.

1st Your avatar intrigues yet scares me
2nd Thanks for towning down the 'bro' bit

Repition and practice is fine but not when you have other HW assignments where you NEED help, right? Also, in classes where you are competent, the day or two before you test is when you can go back and brush up and practice on things you have excelled at. If you aren't excelling at anything then HW is generally needed.

I think it would be interesting for a school to do away with mandatory HW assignments unless it's crucial such as a book report or project that must be done outside of class. Leave the rest as voluntary with the notion that you don't do well then you must do all HW assignments for rest of year.

Example: Chaka is the English Physics wiz and has consistantly produced A's on this test. Chaka skips the HW assignments as well. Why force Chaka to do HW when he's getting an A?

RKMoney doesn't do HW assignments in same Physics class, blows them off but then gets below a C on his test. Now, RKMoney MUST do the rest of the HW assignments going foward. Because they are voluntary for most, if RKMoney doesn't do them, then it will be graded and count towards his grade.

Teacher grades all HW assignments and only count against you if you fail to do them once you produce below a cumulative C during the course of the class.

[quote name='RKMoney' post='5704478' date='Oct 12 2006, 01:18 AM'][quote name='Chaka' post='5704170' date='Oct 11 2006, 03:31 PM']
[quote name='RKMoney' post='5703295' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:43 PM']
[quote name='Chaka' post='5701473' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:04 AM']
[quote name='RKMoney' post='5700745' date='Oct 11 2006, 05:34 PM']
HW is good when it's clearly needed, not for busy work IMO. Book reports you obviously need to do HW but a bunch of math problems that you already know how to do? Sorry, but that's a complete waste of time that you can spend on a number of things that will better you (either study more in other subjects where you stink or do something away from school).[/quote]Why do you keep assuming that the majority of the students are so competent in math that they automatically know everything and have no need for repitition and practice?


[quote name='RKMoney' post='5700745' date='Oct 11 2006, 05:34 PM']I don't see how eliminating HW that's busy work would remotely hurt a student. Of course I am reflecting back to when I was in school and I promise you, doing HW in many cases was useless.[/quote]Oh this must be why. Again I think this does not represent the majority.

Okay this is the 500th time I have made comments on this theme in this thread, it's akin to , I'm passing the torch. Good luck.
[/quote]

Just giving an example, can replace math with any subject.
[/quote]Okay I am getting the band back together for this one last comment (until you say something else that sets me off) so here goes:

Fine then answer this question: Why do you keep assuming that the majority of the students are so competent in [INSERT ANY SUBJECT HERE] that they automatically know everything and have no need for repitition and practice?

Thank you Springton there will be no encore!
[/quote]

1st Your avatar intrigues yet scares me
2nd Thanks for towning down the 'bro' bit

Repition and practice is fine but not when you have other HW assignments where you NEED help, right? Also, in classes where you are competent, the day or two before you test is when you can go back and brush up and practice on things you have excelled at. If you aren't excelling at anything then HW is generally needed.

I think it would be interesting for a school to do away with mandatory HW assignments unless it's crucial such as a book report or project that must be done outside of class. Leave the rest as voluntary with the notion that you don't do well then you must do all HW assignments for rest of year.

Example: Chaka is the English Physics wiz and has consistantly produced A's on this test. Chaka skips the HW assignments as well. Why force Chaka to do HW when he's getting an A?

RKMoney doesn't do HW assignments in same Physics class, blows them off but then gets below a C on his test. Now, RKMoney MUST do the rest of the HW assignments going foward. Because they are voluntary for most, if RKMoney doesn't do them, then it will be graded and count towards his grade.

Teacher grades all HW assignments and only count against you if you fail to do them once you produce below a cumulative C during the course of the class.
[/quote]1) It's Fela Kuti if you have never heard his music you are missing something truly special. He is widely considered the father of afro-beat, George Clinton and Afrika Bambaataa always cite Fela as their musical inspiration. Check him out...bro.

I get your points re: HW and I disagree and am tired of debating them.

[quote name='Chaka' post='5705131' date='Oct 11 2006, 06:37 PM'][quote name='RKMoney' post='5704478' date='Oct 12 2006, 01:18 AM']
[quote name='Chaka' post='5704170' date='Oct 11 2006, 03:31 PM']
[quote name='RKMoney' post='5703295' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:43 PM']
[quote name='Chaka' post='5701473' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:04 AM']
[quote name='RKMoney' post='5700745' date='Oct 11 2006, 05:34 PM']
HW is good when it's clearly needed, not for busy work IMO. Book reports you obviously need to do HW but a bunch of math problems that you already know how to do? Sorry, but that's a complete waste of time that you can spend on a number of things that will better you (either study more in other subjects where you stink or do something away from school).[/quote]Why do you keep assuming that the majority of the students are so competent in math that they automatically know everything and have no need for repitition and practice?


[quote name='RKMoney' post='5700745' date='Oct 11 2006, 05:34 PM']I don't see how eliminating HW that's busy work would remotely hurt a student. Of course I am reflecting back to when I was in school and I promise you, doing HW in many cases was useless.[/quote]Oh this must be why. Again I think this does not represent the majority.

Okay this is the 500th time I have made comments on this theme in this thread, it's akin to , I'm passing the torch. Good luck.
[/quote]

Just giving an example, can replace math with any subject.
[/quote]Okay I am getting the band back together for this one last comment (until you say something else that sets me off) so here goes:

Fine then answer this question: Why do you keep assuming that the majority of the students are so competent in [INSERT ANY SUBJECT HERE] that they automatically know everything and have no need for repitition and practice?

Thank you Springton there will be no encore!
[/quote]

1st Your avatar intrigues yet scares me
2nd Thanks for towning down the 'bro' bit

Repition and practice is fine but not when you have other HW assignments where you NEED help, right? Also, in classes where you are competent, the day or two before you test is when you can go back and brush up and practice on things you have excelled at. If you aren't excelling at anything then HW is generally needed.

I think it would be interesting for a school to do away with mandatory HW assignments unless it's crucial such as a book report or project that must be done outside of class. Leave the rest as voluntary with the notion that you don't do well then you must do all HW assignments for rest of year.

Example: Chaka is the English Physics wiz and has consistantly produced A's on this test. Chaka skips the HW assignments as well. Why force Chaka to do HW when he's getting an A?

RKMoney doesn't do HW assignments in same Physics class, blows them off but then gets below a C on his test. Now, RKMoney MUST do the rest of the HW assignments going foward. Because they are voluntary for most, if RKMoney doesn't do them, then it will be graded and count towards his grade.

Teacher grades all HW assignments and only count against you if you fail to do them once you produce below a cumulative C during the course of the class.
[/quote]1) It's Fela Kuti if you have never heard his music you are missing something truly special. He is widely considered the father of afro-beat, George Clinton and Afrika Bambaataa always cite Fela as their musical inspiration. Check him out...bro.

I get your points re: HW and I disagree and am tired of debating them.
[/quote]

Will check him out and I agree, tired of debating it as well.

It's not just the homework but the whole package. Rhino is doing it right..... making sure that she does her homework, helping her with it and making sure that she does it correctly. It's also nice that his daughter has learned how much fun reading can be. 35-40 minutes? Come on..... you have at least 5 or 6 subjects in the third grade...... 7 to 10 minutes per subject of homework isn't bad at all.

I am a teacher who believes in maximizing teaching in the classroom and limiting homework as much as humanly possible. Now, before anyone attacks me I will go on record by clearly stating that not all homework is bad and I do see some of it as being beneficial; however we don’t need hours of it every evening for maximum learning to occur. My students do have school work that they take home, but I see no reason for it to be busy work whereas little learning is to transpire after completing it.

So many times teachers feel the need to assign school work (and I stress school) to be brought home without caring if any learning will occur. Busy work is a COMPLETE waste of time! You can always argue that even if the work is busy students will still learn a form of responsibility by obeying a person in power (a boss) by meeting a certain goal. However, I believe this to be false because there are so many better ways for students to learn responsibility as opposed to the “busy work garbage” where minimal if any learning would have taken place.

In a 60 minute lesson there is a lot of learning that should be taking place between the students and the teachers that is impossible to duplicate outside of the classroom. Now if more work is needed for a student to understand the content taken in class, then you must make sure the work you are sending home will induce an increased understanding of that content. If a student does not understand the content taken that day in school, then there is a good chance that by assigning him/her to do more of that content at home on their own time is not going to benefit him/her! That is why repetition of work will only work with students who already know the content; and chances are if they already know the content then why continue to “beat a dead horse” by continuing to make that student repeat what you have taught them and they already know. Hence why I feel you don’t need hours of homework for students to be successful in elementary, junior high, high school and university.

The greatest learning that occurred for me was done by those teachers who knew how to take content and teach it so it stuck with me in that 60 minutes of class time given and not by doing busy work at home. I had some very distinguished Profs in my days at university and those Profs taught material in practical ways, whereas they were able to get information to me with very limited homework and I feel I was just as well taught as someone who may have been doing hours of homework nightly. Of course homework increases in university and these Profs did not baby us, (believe me I had homework) they simply were able to get information to us with less homework than the average Prof.

There is no need for hours of homework every night and if you feel that your child is benefiting from large loads of homework I feel you are sadly mistaken.

While agree with some of what you are saying...if kids don't have any school work out of the class....they won't know how to handle University. University is about doing homework cause there isn't a teacher there to baby you and read you textbooks together in class. You go to class for an hour and half in University and then have double that time in homework. University isn't about the teacher spoon feeding you things and taking it slow...in University, you have to keep up on your reading and if you don't uderstand in class, then it is your responsibility to learn afterwards. Kids coming out of high school who have been spoon fed SUFFER immensely in te first year of university because they can't handle it....they have never been given the responsibility to keep up in their readings or have to prepare for classes.

Why? So I could have had a 4.0 GPA instead of a 3.4? I still have a great career and didn't waste all that time along the way.

4th-year HS teacher here. I teach 10-12 special ed (have taught or am teaching world civ, government, US hisotry, science, math, and study skills). We are on an A/B schedule which means I teach 8 90-minute classes that rotate every other day.

The main purpose of homework is/was independent practice. Students need to show mastery by showing they can do the stuff on their own without help (I think it's about 90% accuracy, maybe 80%). Independent practice is usually started in the classroom and then continued into the homework. With 90-minute classes, I'll roll through more than one teaching cycle and most times independent practice will be started and finished within the classroom.

I don't assign homework in general. However, I will assign homework for students who need it. Maybe they are struggling and need to work with some flash cards. Maybe they are (gasp) excelling and need to write an essay. Maybe they are doing some makeup work. Maybe their parents want to be involved.

It's all about the context and it can be abused either direction. I think it's ignorant to say homework in general is bad/good.


Random thoughts brought forth from this thread:

1. A teacher can teach to various levels. In fact, a teacher who can't shouldn't be teaching. Or maybe just teach AP stuff.

2. With a few exceptions, a teacher should rarely be in their seat during class time. I see teachers with big, nice chairs and I'm like "WTF do you need that for?".

I agree 100%.