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Chaka
QUOTE (CBusAlex @ Apr 1 2008, 01:35 PM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 1 2008, 10:14 AM) *
The major flaw with your method is that you seem to believe you're infallable. It's possible to not see someone coming. We've all done it. You almost pull out in front of someone and say "Whoa, I never saw them coming". That's why you use your blinker. You may not see them, but they see you.

For example, you turned left, with no signal because you didn't see anyone coming the other way, but what if you simply didn't see the guy coming the other way? You would've been T-boned and possibly killed becasue you didn't use your blinker. But just think about how much energy you saved!

And what about everyone else on the road? What if there was a guy on a bike coming the other way that you didn't see? You turn left right in front of him, he slams into you and dies. Impossible huh? Almost happened to me once in that exact scenario. I was the guy on the bike. They never saw me.

It's not all about you. Using your blinker is so freakin' easy yet you refuse to do it. You'd rather take the chance of possibly killing someone than flip that lever. Why? What are you afraid of? People will think less of you?


How would using a blinker possibly reduce the risk of any of those accidents?
Because it helps the other driver in these instances identify your location and your intent to the other driver allowing him extra time to prepare in case you do not see him.

They help and never hurt and they are far to simple to use for so many to ignore.

Laziness, selfishness or stupidity are the only reasons not to use one. I can forgive stupidity but the others I cannot abide.
Christo
QUOTE (IvanKaramazov @ Apr 1 2008, 10:42 AM) *
I live in the northern plains, where there's not a lot of highway traffic. I don't generally bother with my turn signal on the highway because there's nobody around who needs to see it.

With me it doesn't matter if no one's around, it's automatic.
CBusAlex
QUOTE (Chaka @ Apr 1 2008, 03:06 PM) *
Because it helps the other driver in these instances identify your location and your intent to the other driver allowing him extra time to prepare in case you do not see him.

Prepare how? He's got the right of way. What is he doing to do differently if I have my blinker on?
428143
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 1 2008, 12:14 PM) *
QUOTE (IvanKaramazov @ Apr 1 2008, 12:53 PM) *
I drove home for lunch today and just arrived back in my office. Given this thread, I paid extra attention to my driving and decided to narrate my experience for the benefit of the FFA. Here is each lane change that I made:

1. Turning right out of my parking lot onto a public road. There was no car behind me and no car coming in either direction, so I didn't signal.

2. After 50 ft or so I come to a stop sign, where I need to turn left onto another road (there is no stop sign in any other direction). I come to a complete stop and look both directions. I will be going northbound, and there is no other traffic moving in that direction. There are a couple of southbound cars a couple hundred feet away, but I have plenty of time to make my turn and be on my way. There is nobody behind me. I don't signal.

3. I drive a few miles and need to turn left. There is no other car in sight, so I don't signal.

4. After a few feet, I need to turn right into my driveway. There is still no other car in sight so I don't signal.

I enjoy a nutritious lunch consisting of frosted miniwheats and skim milk. Not very exciting, granted, but frosted miniwheats are fortified with vitamins and minerals.

5. Now I need to turn left out of my driveway onto a public road. There is a truck coming at me in the distance, but there's a stop sign between me and him. There is no other vehicle within sight. I don't signal.

6. Now comes the tricky part. I am travelling east and the truck is travelling west. We reach a two-way stop where EW traffic must stop by NS traffic does not. I am going to turn right (S). The truck signals that he is going to turn left (S), and I reciprocate with a signal. This is a confusing intersection because the truck got to the intersection before me, so I think he has the right of way, but he sits there and makes it clear that he is going to yield to me since I am making a right-hand turn. Whatever. I go ahead and make my indicated turn (using my trusty turn signal!) and go on my way. My turn signal saved the day. Hooray for turn signals!

7. Eventually I need to turn right to head back to my parking lot. The truck from before is still behind me, so I signal to let him know that I will be slowing down to turn. Notice the pattern here: I use my signal when another motorist might beneift from knowing my intentions. I don't signal into thin air.

8. Now I need to turn left into my lot. Again, there are no cars or pedestrians of any kind nearby, so I recklessly make my turn without using a signal but no accident ensues.

It was a nerve-wracking, dangerous exercise in reckless driving, but I somehow lived to tell the tale.



The major flaw with your method is that you seem to believe you're infallable.

End of discussion. Use your blinker you ####### morons...
Pipes
QUOTE (CBusAlex @ Apr 1 2008, 04:17 PM) *
QUOTE (Chaka @ Apr 1 2008, 03:06 PM) *
Because it helps the other driver in these instances identify your location and your intent to the other driver allowing him extra time to prepare in case you do not see him.

Prepare how? He's got the right of way. What is he doing to do differently if I have my blinker on?


I don't know...maybe be prepared to swerve out of the way if you turn in front of him?
MikeMan
As I've gotten older, I find myself signalling less and less. Waste of time. If you don't want to hit me, then don't drive into me and I won't drive into you.
Chaka
QUOTE (Pipes @ Apr 1 2008, 02:28 PM) *
QUOTE (CBusAlex @ Apr 1 2008, 04:17 PM) *
QUOTE (Chaka @ Apr 1 2008, 03:06 PM) *
Because it helps the other driver in these instances identify your location and your intent to the other driver allowing him extra time to prepare in case you do not see him.

Prepare how? He's got the right of way. What is he doing to do differently if I have my blinker on?


I don't know...maybe be prepared to swerve out of the way if you turn in front of him?
What he said. But I can understand how you may not see that.
satch
QUOTE (CBusAlex @ Apr 1 2008, 04:35 PM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 1 2008, 10:14 AM) *
The major flaw with your method is that you seem to believe you're infallable. It's possible to not see someone coming. We've all done it. You almost pull out in front of someone and say "Whoa, I never saw them coming". That's why you use your blinker. You may not see them, but they see you.

For example, you turned left, with no signal because you didn't see anyone coming the other way, but what if you simply didn't see the guy coming the other way? You would've been T-boned and possibly killed becasue you didn't use your blinker. But just think about how much energy you saved!

And what about everyone else on the road? What if there was a guy on a bike coming the other way that you didn't see? You turn left right in front of him, he slams into you and dies. Impossible huh? Almost happened to me once in that exact scenario. I was the guy on the bike. They never saw me.

It's not all about you. Using your blinker is so freakin' easy yet you refuse to do it. You'd rather take the chance of possibly killing someone than flip that lever. Why? What are you afraid of? People will think less of you?


How would using a blinker possibly reduce the risk of any of those accidents?


Are you serious? Alright, I'll explain. Here's the scenario with 2 different endings:

Scenario A, no turn signal-

You're heading north down Main St and you'll be turning left up ahead onto a side stret. There's a motorcycle heading South on Main St, he's not turning. You don't see the biker or any other traffic, so you turn left without using your left turn signal. Since you didn't use your turn sigal, the biker correctly thought you were going to continue straight, and when you unexpectedly tuned left right in front of him he has to break hard to avoid smashing into you and his bike slides out from under him throwing him off the bike. You drive home, the biker is taken to the hospital in an ambulance and suffers life thratening injuries from the crash.

Scenario B, with turn signal-

You're heading north down Main St and you'll be turning left up ahead onto a side street. There's a motorcycle heading South on Main St, he's not turning. You don't see the biker or any other traffic. Even though you don't see anyone around, you use your left turn signal anyway just in case. The biker, (who you never saw,) sees you signaling a left turn and he calmly applies his breaks and prepares just in case you don't see him. You do, in fact, turn right in front of him because you never saw him. However, since you signaled early enough before the turn, the biker was ready for it and was able to break safely, maintain control of the bike and slow down enough to allow you to make your turn, after which he continues straight. His other option would be to see your left turn signal, see the road you're planning to turn onto, and speed up so that he drives past you before you turn. Either way, you and the biker both drive home safely.

In this very plausible scenario, not using a turn signal resulted in tragedy while using a turn signal avoided it. Does that make things any clearer? You asked how using your turn signal reduced the risk of those accidents and I believe I explained it pretty clearly in this scenario.
IvanKaramazov
QUOTE (428143 @ Apr 1 2008, 04:21 PM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 1 2008, 12:14 PM) *
QUOTE (IvanKaramazov @ Apr 1 2008, 12:53 PM) *
I drove home for lunch today and just arrived back in my office. Given this thread, I paid extra attention to my driving and decided to narrate my experience for the benefit of the FFA. Here is each lane change that I made:

1. Turning right out of my parking lot onto a public road. There was no car behind me and no car coming in either direction, so I didn't signal.

2. After 50 ft or so I come to a stop sign, where I need to turn left onto another road (there is no stop sign in any other direction). I come to a complete stop and look both directions. I will be going northbound, and there is no other traffic moving in that direction. There are a couple of southbound cars a couple hundred feet away, but I have plenty of time to make my turn and be on my way. There is nobody behind me. I don't signal.

3. I drive a few miles and need to turn left. There is no other car in sight, so I don't signal.

4. After a few feet, I need to turn right into my driveway. There is still no other car in sight so I don't signal.

I enjoy a nutritious lunch consisting of frosted miniwheats and skim milk. Not very exciting, granted, but frosted miniwheats are fortified with vitamins and minerals.

5. Now I need to turn left out of my driveway onto a public road. There is a truck coming at me in the distance, but there's a stop sign between me and him. There is no other vehicle within sight. I don't signal.

6. Now comes the tricky part. I am travelling east and the truck is travelling west. We reach a two-way stop where EW traffic must stop by NS traffic does not. I am going to turn right (S). The truck signals that he is going to turn left (S), and I reciprocate with a signal. This is a confusing intersection because the truck got to the intersection before me, so I think he has the right of way, but he sits there and makes it clear that he is going to yield to me since I am making a right-hand turn. Whatever. I go ahead and make my indicated turn (using my trusty turn signal!) and go on my way. My turn signal saved the day. Hooray for turn signals!

7. Eventually I need to turn right to head back to my parking lot. The truck from before is still behind me, so I signal to let him know that I will be slowing down to turn. Notice the pattern here: I use my signal when another motorist might beneift from knowing my intentions. I don't signal into thin air.

8. Now I need to turn left into my lot. Again, there are no cars or pedestrians of any kind nearby, so I recklessly make my turn without using a signal but no accident ensues.

It was a nerve-wracking, dangerous exercise in reckless driving, but I somehow lived to tell the tale.



The major flaw with your method is that you seem to believe you're infallable.

End of discussion. Use your blinker you ####### morons...


Yes, I do think I'm more or less infallible when it comes to looking in my rear-view mirror and seeing whether there's a car there or not. In all my years of driving, I have yet to encounter an invisible vampire car that doesn't appear in mirrors.
Verbal Kint
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.
satch
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


How does someone else not using their signals equal me not paying attenton to what's going on around me? Isn't it the person not using their signal who seems oblivious to everything around them.

We all look for other "tells" when driving because we have to. We have to because idiots don't use signals. If they did, we wouldn't have to play detective and look for all the other tells! What is confusing about this? Aren't turn signals the simplest and most obvious "tell" of all? Why not use them?
tommyGunZ
this thread has officially reached SERIOUS BUSINESS™ status
Verbal Kint
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 2 2008, 07:32 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


How does someone else not using their signals equal me not paying attenton to what's going on around me? Isn't it the person not using their signal who seems oblivious to everything around them.

We all look for other "tells" when driving because we have to. We have to because idiots don't use signals. If they did, we wouldn't have to play detective and look for all the other tells! What is confusing about this? Aren't turn signals the simplest and most obvious "tell" of all? Why not use them?


All I'm saying is, if you need a blinker to tell that what someone is going to do, then you are not paying attention.
Chaka
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 07:30 AM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 2 2008, 07:32 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


How does someone else not using their signals equal me not paying attenton to what's going on around me? Isn't it the person not using their signal who seems oblivious to everything around them.

We all look for other "tells" when driving because we have to. We have to because idiots don't use signals. If they did, we wouldn't have to play detective and look for all the other tells! What is confusing about this? Aren't turn signals the simplest and most obvious "tell" of all? Why not use them?


All I'm saying is, if you need a blinker to tell that what someone is going to do, then you are not paying attention.

This statement shows that you don't pay enough attention to the reality that most people are not very bright and need all the help they can get when guessing what your intentions are.
Verbal Kint
QUOTE (Chaka @ Apr 2 2008, 09:50 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 07:30 AM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 2 2008, 07:32 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


How does someone else not using their signals equal me not paying attenton to what's going on around me? Isn't it the person not using their signal who seems oblivious to everything around them.

We all look for other "tells" when driving because we have to. We have to because idiots don't use signals. If they did, we wouldn't have to play detective and look for all the other tells! What is confusing about this? Aren't turn signals the simplest and most obvious "tell" of all? Why not use them?


All I'm saying is, if you need a blinker to tell that what someone is going to do, then you are not paying attention.

This statement shows that you don't pay enough attention to the reality that most people are not very bright and need all the help they can get when guessing what your intentions are.


So you are upset that I'm not using my blinker because you're not bright enough to see whats going on around you? confused1.gif
Chaka
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 07:54 AM) *
QUOTE (Chaka @ Apr 2 2008, 09:50 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 07:30 AM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 2 2008, 07:32 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


How does someone else not using their signals equal me not paying attenton to what's going on around me? Isn't it the person not using their signal who seems oblivious to everything around them.

We all look for other "tells" when driving because we have to. We have to because idiots don't use signals. If they did, we wouldn't have to play detective and look for all the other tells! What is confusing about this? Aren't turn signals the simplest and most obvious "tell" of all? Why not use them?


All I'm saying is, if you need a blinker to tell that what someone is going to do, then you are not paying attention.

This statement shows that you don't pay enough attention to the reality that most people are not very bright and need all the help they can get when guessing what your intentions are.


So you are upset that I'm not using my blinker because you're not bright enough to see whats going on around you? confused1.gif
No.
Cunk
After driving for a few years, if using your turn signal isn't an automatic response without thinking then you probably have small worms eating at your occipital lobe. To me it would take more effort to decide if the situation doesn't warrant turning on the turn signal than just doing it. And guess what? Doing it is the correct thing every single time! You can't go wrong!

I agree with the poster before about people trying to merge without using their turn signal. If you use the turn signal, to me, it's almost like saying "please let me in". If you don't it's like saying "I'm coming in'.
satch
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 10:30 AM) *
QUOTE (satch @ Apr 2 2008, 07:32 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


How does someone else not using their signals equal me not paying attenton to what's going on around me? Isn't it the person not using their signal who seems oblivious to everything around them.

We all look for other "tells" when driving because we have to. We have to because idiots don't use signals. If they did, we wouldn't have to play detective and look for all the other tells! What is confusing about this? Aren't turn signals the simplest and most obvious "tell" of all? Why not use them?


All I'm saying is, if you need a blinker to tell that what someone is going to do, then you are not paying attention.


And what I'm saying is that using a turn signal is undisputably the simplest, and best way to let everyone around you know what your intentions are. It may be possible to predict someone's vehicular behavior by looking for "tells", but a long time ago someone invented turn signals so we wouldn't have to do that.

Turn signals>>>>>>>hand signals>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no signals.
Pipes
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 07:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


People make lane changes all the time without these tells and if you're driving in a big city there are always exit ramps coming up. Traffic pattern is heavy. Plus if you're on a multi lane highway with a bunch of cars you can't possibly digest all that information for all the cars in your vicinity.

Just use your blinkers people...it's not that hard.
Cunk
At least this discussion answers the question that some people really do cognitively do something irrational when doing the rational thing takes no time or effort. I would love to see threads on other annoying issues to see the people who cause these annoyances give their reasons why they do it. A couple of discussions I'd like to see...

1. Why don't you wait until I'm off the train before you get on? A. Waiting=comfortable exit for me and comfortable entry for you. B. Not waiting=bumping into each other and causing aggravation. One is rational the other is not. There is no seeming benefit to B.

2. If I hold the door for you why don't you say "thank you". A. Saying thank you is polite and shows appreciation to a stranger doing a kind thing. B. Not saying thank you is inconsiderate and makes you look like an ungrateful person thus aggravating the door holder. There is no benefit to B.


Things like that.
Verbal Kint
QUOTE (Pipes @ Apr 2 2008, 09:46 AM) *
QUOTE (Verbal Kint @ Apr 2 2008, 07:17 AM) *
I only have one more comment, then I'll hang up and listen:

To an alert and perceptive driver, blinkers are in general superfluous. There are so many other tells that a driver is intending to change lanes that it is in most cases obvious where he's going.

Is he speeding up or down? Is his head looking over his shoulder? Is the car drifting toward another lane? Are there any exit ramps coming up? What does the traffic pattern look like? I may be alone here, but when I'm driving I'm processing all of this information continually, and I can predict where he's going with or without a blinker.

So in a way, people who rely on other drivers to use their blinkers are really doing so because they aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them.


People make lane changes all the time without these tells and if you're driving in a big city there are always exit ramps coming up. Traffic pattern is heavy. Plus if you're on a multi lane highway with a bunch of cars you can't possibly digest all that information for all the cars in your vicinity.

Just use your blinkers people...it's not that hard.


I disagree wholeheartedly. Invariably, people who are intending to make a lane change drive differently that when they plan to stay put.

And to clarify my point a little, I totally agree that it takes almost zero effort to use your signal. I'm just saying I don't get worked up if someone doesn't, because its usually pretty obvious what they are going to do anyway.
Robbie Cooper
I use turn signals and hand signals together about 95% of the time (turn signals 100% of the time). I'm on a bike, I want people to be acutely aware of what my intentions are.
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