Full Version: Official 2008-2009 Yankees Off-season Thread
Since the Yanks failed to make the playoffs I decided to start this thread up a bit early. We can discuss rumors, trades, prospects, the new Blue Jays rivalry...pretty much anything.
-They'll sign fatso to a 10-year, trillion dollar contract, forfeit their first-round pick, and then watch as he either dies from a heart attack or his left arm falls off. Or both.
-The fanbase will cling onto the hope they can turn Hacker Cano into Matt Kemp.
-They may or may not sign Teixiera, but then have to make a decision on the multitude of other 37-year-old retreads who can no longer play the OF so they have to be moved to first.
-They will give AJ Burnett 90 million, then watch his colossal flame-out on the New York stage.
-Hank Steinbrenner will say something tremendously stupid.
-They will finish in third-place again.
-The fanbase will cling onto the hope they can turn Hacker Cano into Matt Kemp.
-They may or may not sign Teixiera, but then have to make a decision on the multitude of other 37-year-old retreads who can no longer play the OF so they have to be moved to first.
-They will give AJ Burnett 90 million, then watch his colossal flame-out on the New York stage.
-Hank Steinbrenner will say something tremendously stupid.
-They will finish in third-place again.
I'm guessing the Tampa contingent of the organization will be in full panic mode to "do something" to fix the team. What they'll end up doing is what they always do, which is throwing mad jack at somebody to get them to shave their 'stache and play for them. What they either don't know or don't care about is that this team is getting old:
Mussina - 39
Rivera - 38
Giambi, Posada - 37
Pettite - 35
Jeter, Damon, Abreu, Matsui - 34
ARod - 33
Ponson - 31
Right there's seven members of the Opening Day starting defense on the wrong side of 30. Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years, but even the Yanks don't have enough cash to fill all of these holes as these guys retire/move on. Time will eventually catch up to this team unless they've got a stash of minor leaguers of which I'm unaware.
I like these two the best.
Mussina - 39
Rivera - 38
Giambi, Posada - 37
Pettite - 35
Jeter, Damon, Abreu, Matsui - 34
ARod - 33
Ponson - 31
Right there's seven members of the Opening Day starting defense on the wrong side of 30. Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years, but even the Yanks don't have enough cash to fill all of these holes as these guys retire/move on. Time will eventually catch up to this team unless they've got a stash of minor leaguers of which I'm unaware.
QUOTE (Capella @ Sep 27 2008, 01:26 PM) 
-Hank Steinbrenner will say something tremendously stupid.
-They will finish in third-place again.
-They will finish in third-place again.
I like these two the best.
This is gonna be a VERY interesting offseason. I think they will do the same things Capella said. Dont know about CC getting hurt as he seems to have a rubber arm.
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Sep 27 2008, 01:54 PM)
This is gonna be a VERY interesting offseason. I think they will do the same things Capella said. Dont know about CC getting hurt as he seems to have a rubber arm.
He does, but Milwaukee is just openly abusing him at this point. He'll probably have another solid year to two left, but it's going to get ugly after that.
Or maybe he's just another David Wells. Can't imagine betting on that outcome though.
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Sep 27 2008, 12:49 PM)
Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years
Derek Jeter is awfully close to becoming the most overpaid player in baseball. He will be getting 41 million dollars over the next 2 years. There is no way they can trade him, and they can't move him to any other position.
By nearly every defensive rating system out there, he is one of the worst SS in all of baseball (defensively). And he is trending in all the wrong directions, offensively. He was little more than an average AL hitter this year.
QUOTE (Capella @ Sep 27 2008, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Sep 27 2008, 01:54 PM)
This is gonna be a VERY interesting offseason. I think they will do the same things Capella said. Dont know about CC getting hurt as he seems to have a rubber arm.
He does, but Milwaukee is just openly abusing him at this point. He'll probably have another solid year to two left, but it's going to get ugly after that.
Or maybe he's just another David Wells. Can't imagine betting on that outcome though.
You are 100% right. Sucks
QUOTE (the moops @ Sep 27 2008, 02:22 PM)
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Sep 27 2008, 12:49 PM)
Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years
Derek Jeter is awfully close to becoming the most overpaid player in baseball. He will be getting 41 million dollars over the next 2 years. There is no way they can trade him, and they can't move him to any other position.
By nearly every defensive rating system out there, he is one of the worst SS in all of baseball (defensively). And he is trending in all the wrong directions, offensively. He was little more than an average AL hitter this year.
The money doesnt matter to the Yankees and Jeter is VERY low on the list of problems for this team. As far as defense, Im not sure how he stacked up compared to the rest of the league but Im pretty sure he had one of his best defensive seasons ever this year.
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Sep 27 2008, 01:38 PM)
Im pretty sure he had one of his best defensive seasons ever this year.
Considering he has been one of, if not the worst defensive shortstops for a few years now, I am not sure how much praise that is.
I imagine when defensive rankings come out, once again Jeter will be in the bottom 3rd.
QUOTE (the moops @ Sep 27 2008, 02:25 PM)
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Sep 27 2008, 01:38 PM)
Im pretty sure he had one of his best defensive seasons ever this year.
Considering he has been one of, if not the worst defensive shortstops for a few years now, I am not sure how much praise that is.
I imagine when defensive rankings come out, once again Jeter will be in the bottom 3rd.
And once again he'll get a Gold Glove vote or two proving how much of a joke this asinine award is.
How in the hell did he ever win one?
They'll spend money....eat some contracts....make a winter move that will have everyone crying about parity in baseball and go to spring training as the favorites to win the whole thing.
QUOTE (the moops @ Sep 27 2008, 11:22 AM)
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Sep 27 2008, 12:49 PM)
Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years
Derek Jeter is awfully close to becoming the most overpaid player in baseball. He will be getting 41 million dollars over the next 2 years. There is no way they can trade him, and they can't move him to any other position.
By nearly every defensive rating system out there, he is one of the worst SS in all of baseball (defensively). And he is trending in all the wrong directions, offensively. He was little more than an average AL hitter this year.
Jeter fell of the cliff this year with his power completely disappearing, but he was still the 6th best SS in baseball at the plate by VORP.
QUOTE (Darth Cheney @ Sep 27 2008, 03:31 PM)
They'll spend money....eat some contracts....make a winter move that will have everyone crying about parity in baseball and go to spring training as the favorites to win the whole thing.
I'm not so sure about about this one. Do you have anything to offer up on the new Blue Jays rivalry?
QUOTE (Clifton @ Sep 27 2008, 06:11 PM)
QUOTE (Darth Cheney @ Sep 27 2008, 03:31 PM)
They'll spend money....eat some contracts....make a winter move that will have everyone crying about parity in baseball and go to spring training as the favorites to win the whole thing.
I'm not so sure about about this one. Do you have anything to offer up on the new Blue Jays rivalry?
Are they still sore about that A-Rod thing that happened a couple of years ago?
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Sep 27 2008, 02:38 PM)
QUOTE (the moops @ Sep 27 2008, 02:22 PM)
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Sep 27 2008, 12:49 PM)
Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years
Derek Jeter is awfully close to becoming the most overpaid player in baseball. He will be getting 41 million dollars over the next 2 years. There is no way they can trade him, and they can't move him to any other position.
By nearly every defensive rating system out there, he is one of the worst SS in all of baseball (defensively). And he is trending in all the wrong directions, offensively. He was little more than an average AL hitter this year.
The money doesnt matter to the Yankees and Jeter is VERY low on the list of problems for this team. As far as defense, Im not sure how he stacked up compared to the rest of the league but Im pretty sure he had one of his best defensive seasons ever this year.
I don't want to say they're "stuck" with Jeter, but he's pretty much iconic at this point. Trading him at this point of his career would probably cause riots in the Bronx. Considering the team around him, I would offer up the point that he's probably somebody you'd want to keep around to bring the next generation of Yanks along. In 4-5 years, then get him to retire gracefully (i.e., make it look like his idea).
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Sep 28 2008, 03:25 AM)
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Sep 27 2008, 02:38 PM)
QUOTE (the moops @ Sep 27 2008, 02:22 PM)
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Sep 27 2008, 12:49 PM)
Granted, Jeter & ARod can hold their own for a few more years
Derek Jeter is awfully close to becoming the most overpaid player in baseball. He will be getting 41 million dollars over the next 2 years. There is no way they can trade him, and they can't move him to any other position.
By nearly every defensive rating system out there, he is one of the worst SS in all of baseball (defensively). And he is trending in all the wrong directions, offensively. He was little more than an average AL hitter this year.
The money doesnt matter to the Yankees and Jeter is VERY low on the list of problems for this team. As far as defense, Im not sure how he stacked up compared to the rest of the league but Im pretty sure he had one of his best defensive seasons ever this year.
I don't want to say they're "stuck" with Jeter, but he's pretty much iconic at this point. Trading him at this point of his career would probably cause riots in the Bronx. Considering the team around him, I would offer up the point that he's probably somebody you'd want to keep around to bring the next generation of Yanks along. In 4-5 years, then get him to retire gracefully (i.e., make it look like his idea).
The Yankees aren't really too good at that sort of thing.
See: Williams, Bernie and Torre, Joe
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
Jeter should move to LF. He should have moved to third when A-Rod came on board. He's just being selfish about this.
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 06:36 AM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
Wrong
Possibly
Wrong
Who cares
Great!!
Awesome!
Wrong
No choice
OMG
Wrong
Wrong
Maybe
Wrong
Wrong
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 01:36 PM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
Ok, I'll play.
Healthy? Yes. MVP? No
May have a great season, but not because he's due.
Doubt it.
Agreed.
Moose isn't coming back for a measly one year deal. He'll get multiyear offers from a lot of teams after 20 wins.
Hope not.
Disagree. Yanks will throw too much $$$ at him to say no.
They'll try.
Replace TBD with CC and replace Pettitte with TBD.
Agreed, until they decide to start Joba again after TBD pitcher sucks.
Agreed.
May not repeat, but they'll be right there. They're very legit dude.
When did a youth movement start?
I wish.
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 06:36 AM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
You're delusional on the three bolded points above.
QUOTE (The Ghost of Common @ Sep 28 2008, 06:15 PM)
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 06:36 AM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
You're delusional on the three bolded points above.
Oh and saying "Boston sucks" now at this point makes you into the exact Boston fans you hated at any point prior to 2000. The ones that constantly said "Yankees" suck, but the Yankees out performed them every season.
Tough break being on the other side of the table.
QUOTE (The Ghost of Common @ Sep 28 2008, 08:17 PM)
QUOTE (The Ghost of Common @ Sep 28 2008, 06:15 PM)
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 06:36 AM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
You're delusional on the three bolded points above.
Oh and saying "Boston sucks" now at this point makes you into the exact Boston fans you hated at any point prior to 2000. The ones that constantly said "Yankees" suck, but the Yankees out performed them every season.
Tough break being on the other side of the table.
paybacks are a ###ch?
QUOTE (The Ghost of Common @ Sep 28 2008, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 06:36 AM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
You're delusional on the three bolded points above.
You take things WAY TOO SERIOUSLY my friend.
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 07:19 PM)
QUOTE (The Ghost of Common @ Sep 28 2008, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Sep 28 2008, 06:36 AM)
I think Jeter comes back healthy and has another MVP type season next year.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
I know A-Rod is due to have a great season because next year is an odd # year.
I think Abreu goes to the Mets.
I know Giambi is gone.
I think they bring back Moose for another year after what he accomplished this year.
I know Pettitte will come back with something to prove.
I think they let CC and all of the "big name" FA pitchers go to other teams.
I know they will work out a trade to bring a proven starter in.
I think they will go into the season with a rotation of Wang, PitcherTBD, Moose, Pettitte, Hughes.
I know they will have one of the best bullpens in baseball next year with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.
I think it will be a 3-way battle for the top spot in the AL East.
I know Tampa Bay will learn it's not so easy to repeat in the AL East.
I think the youth movement under Cashman will continue next year.
I Know Boston sucks.
You're delusional on the three bolded points above.
You take things WAY TOO SERIOUSLY my friend.
What was so serious about my 8 word post above?
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
QUOTE ([icon] @ Oct 5 2008, 03:33 PM)
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
They signed Cashman to a 3 yr extension and they didnt force him to trade away any young players, something their father did regularly in the 80s. I dont see what the big deal is.
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Oct 6 2008, 01:46 PM)
QUOTE ([icon] @ Oct 5 2008, 03:33 PM)
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
They signed Cashman to a 3 yr extension and they didnt force him to trade away any young players, something their father did regularly in the 80s. I dont see what the big deal is.
From all I've read, Hank is very interested in talking big and putting his name in the papers whenever possible, but Hal is Cashman's closest ally with the club and is interested in building a winning team...by allowing the baseball people to be baseball people.
Oh, and Hank/Hal hate each other and don't even speak. So I'm hoping they can each cancel out all of the other one's bad choices out of spite, leaving the decision-makers to make the decisions.
QUOTE (Michael Brown @ Oct 6 2008, 01:58 PM)
QUOTE (blackjack23 @ Oct 6 2008, 01:46 PM)
QUOTE ([icon] @ Oct 5 2008, 03:33 PM)
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
They signed Cashman to a 3 yr extension and they didnt force him to trade away any young players, something their father did regularly in the 80s. I dont see what the big deal is.
From all I've read, Hank is very interested in talking big and putting his name in the papers whenever possible, but Hal is Cashman's closest ally with the club and is interested in building a winning team...by allowing the baseball people to be baseball people.
Oh, and Hank/Hal hate each other and don't even speak. So I'm hoping they can each cancel out all of the other one's bad choices out of spite, leaving the decision-makers to make the decisions.
Is this true regarding Hal and Hank? I wasn't aware of this.
I was thrilled to see Bobby Meacham let go as Girardi blundered terribly with his choice of Bobby and his blind backing of him. Hard to ask for others to have accountability when you don't walk the walk. Girardi was FAR better at handling the bullpen compared to Torre and his X and O decisions were at least on par. He didn't bond with the players (or the media) as well as Torre, but in his first year that would be a tough chore for anyone (as it was Joe's only strength as well).
Cashman forced the firing of meacham and that is concerning to me again with Girardi, but i am glad the decision was made.
A post earlier form I think Tom stated how old the Yankees are getting, but this year they will remove a lot from the payroll with contracts up. I am not in favor of bringing back both Mussina and Pettitte, although it can be argued that if they are each for one year deals then it might make sense. In general, Pettitte surprised me 2 years ago that his ERA approached 4. This year is about what I would expect from him so is it really worth it? Mussina reinvented himself, but I have to think if he wants to play he will want a 2 year deal at good coin. With Joba wanting to start, I don't think we need both of them IF Sabbathia will be hunted/signed.
BTW, I was in favor of bringing Cashman back, mostly because the devil you don't know could be worse. Cashman has done a very nice job rebuilding the Yankee farm system and understands the game. He made two HUGE blunders in getting Kei Agawa instead of Dice K and the failure to pull the trigger on the Santana deal, but outside of that he has done fine.
Joba was arrested tonight for DUI in lincoln
QUOTE ([icon] @ Oct 5 2008, 12:33 PM)
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
Sheehan is a Red Sox fan, so I'm guessing this is a bit of wishful thinking on his part. He wrote a gushing recap of ALCS Game 5 that concluded "maybe team chemistry does matter?"
QUOTE (Norman Einstein @ Oct 18 2008, 08:02 PM)
Joba was arrested tonight for DUI in lincoln
pathetic. I will never understand why rich celebrities don't just get someone to drive for them when they get hammered.
QUOTE (Liquid Tension @ Oct 17 2008, 06:53 AM)
A post earlier form I think Tom stated how old the Yankees are getting, but this year they will remove a lot from the payroll with contracts up. I am not in favor of bringing back both Mussina and Pettitte, although it can be argued that if they are each for one year deals then it might make sense. In general, Pettitte surprised me 2 years ago that his ERA approached 4. This year is about what I would expect from him so is it really worth it? Mussina reinvented himself, but I have to think if he wants to play he will want a 2 year deal at good coin. With Joba wanting to start, I don't think we need both of them IF Sabbathia will be hunted/signed.
Mussina finished the year 7th in the AL in ERA+.
Pettitte had an ERA of 4.54, but a Fielding Independent Pitching stat of 3.74. This implies with different luck and circumstances, it could have been quite lower.
As for the contracts going off the books, here is excellent analysis from www.nomaas.org:
QUOTE
10.15.2008 NoMaas offseason idea #5 -- Free agents & the '09 draft
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
QUOTE (The Man from Laramie @ Oct 19 2008, 06:34 AM)
QUOTE ([icon] @ Oct 5 2008, 12:33 PM)
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
Sheehan is a Red Sox fan, so I'm guessing this is a bit of wishful thinking on his part. He wrote a gushing recap of ALCS Game 5 that concluded "maybe team chemistry does matter?"
There are no Yankees fans at BP.
QUOTE (The Man from Laramie @ Oct 19 2008, 06:43 AM)
QUOTE (Liquid Tension @ Oct 17 2008, 06:53 AM)
A post earlier form I think Tom stated how old the Yankees are getting, but this year they will remove a lot from the payroll with contracts up. I am not in favor of bringing back both Mussina and Pettitte, although it can be argued that if they are each for one year deals then it might make sense. In general, Pettitte surprised me 2 years ago that his ERA approached 4. This year is about what I would expect from him so is it really worth it? Mussina reinvented himself, but I have to think if he wants to play he will want a 2 year deal at good coin. With Joba wanting to start, I don't think we need both of them IF Sabbathia will be hunted/signed.
Mussina finished the year 7th in the AL in ERA+.
Pettitte had an ERA of 4.54, but a Fielding Independent Pitching stat of 3.74. This implies with different luck and circumstances, it could have been quite lower.
As for the contracts going off the books, here is excellent analysis from www.nomaas.org:
QUOTE
10.15.2008 NoMaas offseason idea #5 -- Free agents & the '09 draft
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
Boggles my mind. How do the Yankees not sign their top 2 picks?!? Were those guys holding out for Pittsburgh money?
QUOTE (The Man from Laramie @ Oct 19 2008, 06:43 AM)
QUOTE (Liquid Tension @ Oct 17 2008, 06:53 AM)
A post earlier form I think Tom stated how old the Yankees are getting, but this year they will remove a lot from the payroll with contracts up. I am not in favor of bringing back both Mussina and Pettitte, although it can be argued that if they are each for one year deals then it might make sense. In general, Pettitte surprised me 2 years ago that his ERA approached 4. This year is about what I would expect from him so is it really worth it? Mussina reinvented himself, but I have to think if he wants to play he will want a 2 year deal at good coin. With Joba wanting to start, I don't think we need both of them IF Sabbathia will be hunted/signed.
Mussina finished the year 7th in the AL in ERA+.
Pettitte had an ERA of 4.54, but a Fielding Independent Pitching stat of 3.74. This implies with different luck and circumstances, it could have been quite lower.
As for the contracts going off the books, here is excellent analysis from www.nomaas.org:
QUOTE
10.15.2008 NoMaas offseason idea #5 -- Free agents & the '09 draft
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
Excellent analasys? In what world do you think the Yankees are offering Giambi, Pudge and Abreu arbitration? They finally get Giami off their books and they are going to take a chance and offer him arbitration? I dont think that is happening.
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Oct 20 2008, 01:59 PM)
QUOTE (The Man from Laramie @ Oct 19 2008, 06:34 AM)
QUOTE ([icon] @ Oct 5 2008, 12:33 PM)
The chain of events that led to the Steinbrenner sons running the Yankees will, a half-century from now, be seen as the beginning of a very dark period for [the] Yankees.
They don't know what they're doing, and they're very aggressive about it.
-Joe Sheehan, BP Writer and Yankee fan
Sheehan is a Red Sox fan, so I'm guessing this is a bit of wishful thinking on his part. He wrote a gushing recap of ALCS Game 5 that concluded "maybe team chemistry does matter?"
There are no Yankees fans at BP.
Not true. The editor of their book about the Red Sox was a Yankees fan.
QUOTE (Giantseasonticketholder @ Oct 20 2008, 05:01 PM)
QUOTE (The Man from Laramie @ Oct 19 2008, 06:43 AM)
QUOTE (Liquid Tension @ Oct 17 2008, 06:53 AM)
A post earlier form I think Tom stated how old the Yankees are getting, but this year they will remove a lot from the payroll with contracts up. I am not in favor of bringing back both Mussina and Pettitte, although it can be argued that if they are each for one year deals then it might make sense. In general, Pettitte surprised me 2 years ago that his ERA approached 4. This year is about what I would expect from him so is it really worth it? Mussina reinvented himself, but I have to think if he wants to play he will want a 2 year deal at good coin. With Joba wanting to start, I don't think we need both of them IF Sabbathia will be hunted/signed.
Mussina finished the year 7th in the AL in ERA+.
Pettitte had an ERA of 4.54, but a Fielding Independent Pitching stat of 3.74. This implies with different luck and circumstances, it could have been quite lower.
As for the contracts going off the books, here is excellent analysis from www.nomaas.org:
QUOTE
10.15.2008 NoMaas offseason idea #5 -- Free agents & the '09 draft
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
Boggles my mind. How do the Yankees not sign their top 2 picks?!? Were those guys holding out for Pittsburgh money?
Cole apparently jerked their chain, left indications that he wanted to and was interested in signing and he apparently had some head/makeup issues but the Yanks drafted their arm and got burned, but it seems like a family jerk around.
The second round kid was defiantely on them though, they more or less punted on signing him when they realized he had injury issues and the salary slot wasn't worth the risk of his elbow.
QUOTE (Pat Patriot @ Oct 20 2008, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE (The Man from Laramie @ Oct 19 2008, 06:43 AM)
QUOTE (Liquid Tension @ Oct 17 2008, 06:53 AM)
A post earlier form I think Tom stated how old the Yankees are getting, but this year they will remove a lot from the payroll with contracts up. I am not in favor of bringing back both Mussina and Pettitte, although it can be argued that if they are each for one year deals then it might make sense. In general, Pettitte surprised me 2 years ago that his ERA approached 4. This year is about what I would expect from him so is it really worth it? Mussina reinvented himself, but I have to think if he wants to play he will want a 2 year deal at good coin. With Joba wanting to start, I don't think we need both of them IF Sabbathia will be hunted/signed.
Mussina finished the year 7th in the AL in ERA+.
Pettitte had an ERA of 4.54, but a Fielding Independent Pitching stat of 3.74. This implies with different luck and circumstances, it could have been quite lower.
As for the contracts going off the books, here is excellent analysis from www.nomaas.org:
QUOTE
10.15.2008 NoMaas offseason idea #5 -- Free agents & the '09 draft
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
This offseason is the perfect storm for the Yankees to leverage their financial advantage over the rest of baseball, as there is really no downside to spending on big-name veterans. Normally, if the Yankees were to sign a Type-A free agent, they would have to forfeit their 1st round pick in the 2009 draft to whichever team it was that the player came from, and this would detract from the net value of the transaction. Considering how valuable building a farm system has become in recent years, 1st round picks have become a pretty significant price to pay.
At the same time, the Yankees have a number of their own players that could be filing for free agency. Pettitte, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu, and Pudge will all be free agents. Marte has a $6 million option which, if declined, would make him a free agent. Pettitte, Moose, Abreu, Pudge, and Marte all stand to be Type-A free agents, while Giambi will likely slot in as a Type-B. Remember - each Type-A free agent that another team signs away from the Yankees will net the team two picks in the 2009 draft, while each Type-B brings back one.
Often times this compensation factor leads us to wonder if signing a player is worth it, as it could potentially cost the team a shot at an Andrew Brackman, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain. In the case of this offseason it is clear that signing a Sabathia or Teixeira is clearly worth giving up the draft pick. They are young, talented, and of elite production. The beauty of this offseason though, is that with so many players coming off the books, there is not only money to spend, but a potential windfall of picks coming back to the Yankees if they let some of these players walk (after offering arbitration, of course). Also, lets not forget that the team already has two additional picks in the 2009 draft from not signing Gerrit Cole and Scott Bittle. Those picks, as well any picks that the Yankees gain from losing their own free agents, cannot be lost to the compensation rules. The only picks he Yankees can lose are the standard 2009 picks they get based upon their record this past season.
So, going into this offseason, the Yankees' 2009 draft picks are:
1st round: #26, #31 (Cole)
2nd round: #76 (approximately), and #80 (Bittle)
Lets say they sign Sabathia AND Teixeira. They lose their natural 1st and 2nd rounders, and are still left with picks #31 and #80. Now, lets say out of the six free agents that are coming off the books, Giambi, Pudge, Abreu, and Marte are offered arbitration and sign elsewhere. This adds an additional SEVEN draft picks, in the first 80 or so picks of the draft, to the Yankees haul.
Not only could the Yankees land some prime free agents this offseason, but they could also simultaneously turn the first two rounds of the 2009 MLB draft into their personal playground. It really is the perfect storm, as it allows the team to build for next year while not just maintaining their presence in the draft, but actually increasing it significantly. This could be a huge moment for the direction of the franchise and we can only hope that they capitalize on this incredible opportunity.
Excellent analasys? In what world do you think the Yankees are offering Giambi, Pudge and Abreu arbitration? They finally get Giami off their books and they are going to take a chance and offer him arbitration? I dont think that is happening.
Abreu will DEFINATELY be offered Arb, he'll be offered a 3 year deal elsewhere or if he signs for one year, its a good deal for the Yanks.
As for Giambi and Pudge, they'll probably be offered and they'll decline because they won't want to get cut for no cash at the end of spring training. Pudge is a bigger risk to accept, and the Yanks might take one year of Giambi, but they'll all probably get offered Arb.
I would be SHOCKED if either Giambi or Pudge were offered arbitration. Abreu is a more difficult case.
QUOTE (Pat Patriot @ Oct 23 2008, 06:43 PM)
I would be SHOCKED if either Giambi or Pudge were offered arbitration. Abreu is a more difficult case.
I think Giambi can get a nice offer from a team like the A's, Angels, or Orioles. Multiyear and all that. So I don't think there's enormous risk in offering arbitration to him. How much do you guys think he'd get in arb? Abreu is a lock to be offered arbitration, cause he'd never accept. He's certainly earned a multiyear deal from someone, and if he did offer arbitration I'd gladly take him back for a year. He's proven to be quite good when he's got incentive ($) to play.
I wouldn't offer Pudge arbitration, too much risk in him accepting. Though he has openly stated a preference to play every day...he wouldn't come close to doing that with the Yanks, so maybe he'd sign for less with someone else. There are a lot of teams where he'd get regular PT.
QUOTE (Michael Brown @ Oct 23 2008, 04:05 PM)
I wouldn't offer Pudge arbitration, too much risk in him accepting. Though he has openly stated a preference to play every day...he wouldn't come close to doing that with the Yanks, so maybe he'd sign for less with someone else. There are a lot of teams where he'd get regular PT.
I would agree with this. If you have a guy who's about ready to step in to take over for Posada in a couple of years, you don't need to be clogging your roster with Pudge. Even if you didn't, you don't really have a place for him. Pudge doesn't play first and would need a peach basket to play a corner OF spot.
So, over the past 2 days I've heard that they are signing every free agent on the market, especially CC and Manny.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
QUOTE (Yankee23Fan @ Oct 31 2008, 02:05 PM)
So, over the past 2 days I've heard that they are signing every free agent on the market, especially CC and Manny.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
No offense but that is why I hate the Yankees. Not exactly a level playing field, is it?
QUOTE (DropKick @ Nov 1 2008, 12:49 AM)
QUOTE (Yankee23Fan @ Oct 31 2008, 02:05 PM)
So, over the past 2 days I've heard that they are signing every free agent on the market, especially CC and Manny.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
No offense but that is why I hate the Yankees. Not exactly a level playing field, is it?
None taken, but I think your gripe should be more with baseball than with the Yankees.
QUOTE (Michael Brown @ Nov 1 2008, 05:17 PM)
QUOTE (DropKick @ Nov 1 2008, 12:49 AM)
QUOTE (Yankee23Fan @ Oct 31 2008, 02:05 PM)
So, over the past 2 days I've heard that they are signing every free agent on the market, especially CC and Manny.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
No offense but that is why I hate the Yankees. Not exactly a level playing field, is it?
None taken, but I think your gripe should be more with baseball than with the Yankees.
Nah, it's easier to beef about the Yanke$$. Besides, it's been what, 7 years now?
QUOTE (DropKick @ Oct 31 2008, 08:49 PM)
QUOTE (Yankee23Fan @ Oct 31 2008, 02:05 PM)
So, over the past 2 days I've heard that they are signing every free agent on the market, especially CC and Manny.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
No offense but that is why I hate the Yankees. Not exactly a level playing field, is it?
It's a very level playing field. The most level it can be. Every team can sign every player it wants to. But that isn't the answer you want and now a bunch of people that don't look at actual facts will come in here and attack this statement and go on and on about Yankees and payroll and so forth....
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Nov 3 2008, 01:53 AM)
QUOTE (Michael Brown @ Nov 1 2008, 05:17 PM)
QUOTE (DropKick @ Nov 1 2008, 12:49 AM)
QUOTE (Yankee23Fan @ Oct 31 2008, 02:05 PM)
So, over the past 2 days I've heard that they are signing every free agent on the market, especially CC and Manny.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
It really is hard to figure out what is real with this team given the ability to actually sign all of them if they want to.
No offense but that is why I hate the Yankees. Not exactly a level playing field, is it?
None taken, but I think your gripe should be more with baseball than with the Yankees.
Nah, it's easier to beef about the Yanke$$. Besides, it's been what, 7 years now?
It's been 8. And it'll be a minimum of 9 no matter what happens because they can't win til next October at the earliest. I want to make a comment about how long it's been for your Tribe, but I won't.
Or did I already just make one?
Yanks decline the option on Marte, to go along with obviously declining Giambi and Pavano. Pudge also won't be back, thank God.
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