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Amazing stat... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rizzler
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
That blurb seems to imply that Welker's short receptions, and lack of catches where the ball travels 20+ yards in the air or more, are the problem in the Pats offense. I think that's false. The problem is not that Welker doesn't stretch the field, its that they haven't been able to find ANOTHER receiver to stretch the field. That's just how I read the spin they put on that, I could be wrong. His role in that offense is very important. He doesn't need to do it all--they need to find someone else capable of taking the top off the defense to complement him.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
isn't he a slot receiver?
Balco
Footballguy
The Patriots need a deep threat, but more importantly, they need a defense and a running back who can make a big play.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
When Brandon Lloyd replaces Branch on the outside in 2012 that'll be fixed.
Serenity Now
Footballguy
Welker IS their running game, essentially.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
It has to be plays where the ball went 20 yards in the air past the line of scrimmage.
Phlash
Footballguy
AmosMoses
Footballguy
He's nuts. Welker is a machine. I bet these past 5 years are as good as any WR has ever had.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Then I'm really not surprised.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Averaging 111 Receptions, 1221 Receiving Yards, 6 TD and less than 2 fumbles, per year.
Rece Rush Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb2007 26 NWE PR/WR 83 16 13 112 1175 10.5 8 42 7.0 73.4 4 34 0 27 8.5 2.1 0.3 1209 8 32008* 27 NWE PR/WR 83 16 14 111 1165 10.5 3 64 6.9 72.8 3 26 0 19 8.7 1.6 0.2 1191 3 12009*+ 28 NWE PR/WR 83 14 13 123 1348 11.0 4 58 8.8 96.3 5 36 0 11 7.2 2.6 0.4 1384 4 22010* 29 NWE WR 83 15 11 86 848 9.9 7 35 5.7 56.5 848 7 12011*+ 30 NWE WR 83 16 15 122 1569 12.9 9 99 7.6 98.1 4 30 0 19 7.5 1.9 0.3 1599 9 25 yrs NWE 77 66 554 6105 11.0 31 99 7.2 79.3 16 126 0 27 7.9 1.6 0.2 6231 31 9
Im sure some will argue TDs drag him down, I would disagree.
Single Seasons from 1920-2011 for WRs with at least 111 Receptions and 1165 Receiving Yards.Rk Player Draft From To Tm Count1 Wes Welker 2007 2011 NWE 42 Cris Carter 4-3 1994 1995 MIN 23 Marvin Harrison 1-19 1999 2002 IND 24 Jerry Rice* 1-16 1994 1995 SFO 25 Jimmy Smith 2-36 1999 2001 JAX 26 Isaac Bruce 2-33 1995 1995 STL 17 Torry Holt 1-6 2003 2003 STL 18 Michael Irvin* 1-11 1995 1995 DAL 19 Andre Johnson 1-3 2008 2008 HOU 110 Terance Mathis 6-140 1994 1994 ATL 111 Herman Moore 1-10 1995 1995 DET 112 Randy Moss 1-21 2003 2003 MIN 113 Sterling Sharpe 1-7 1993 1993 GNB 114 Rod Smith 2001 2001 DEN 115 Hines Ward 3-92 2002 2002 PIT 116 Reggie Wayne 1-30 2010 2010 IND 117 Roddy White 1-27 2010 2010 ATL 1
Not a bad list to be on the top of.
Rece Rush Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb2007 26 NWE PR/WR 83 16 13 112 1175 10.5 8 42 7.0 73.4 4 34 0 27 8.5 2.1 0.3 1209 8 32008* 27 NWE PR/WR 83 16 14 111 1165 10.5 3 64 6.9 72.8 3 26 0 19 8.7 1.6 0.2 1191 3 12009*+ 28 NWE PR/WR 83 14 13 123 1348 11.0 4 58 8.8 96.3 5 36 0 11 7.2 2.6 0.4 1384 4 22010* 29 NWE WR 83 15 11 86 848 9.9 7 35 5.7 56.5 848 7 12011*+ 30 NWE WR 83 16 15 122 1569 12.9 9 99 7.6 98.1 4 30 0 19 7.5 1.9 0.3 1599 9 25 yrs NWE 77 66 554 6105 11.0 31 99 7.2 79.3 16 126 0 27 7.9 1.6 0.2 6231 31 9
Im sure some will argue TDs drag him down, I would disagree.
Single Seasons from 1920-2011 for WRs with at least 111 Receptions and 1165 Receiving Yards.Rk Player Draft From To Tm Count1 Wes Welker 2007 2011 NWE 42 Cris Carter 4-3 1994 1995 MIN 23 Marvin Harrison 1-19 1999 2002 IND 24 Jerry Rice* 1-16 1994 1995 SFO 25 Jimmy Smith 2-36 1999 2001 JAX 26 Isaac Bruce 2-33 1995 1995 STL 17 Torry Holt 1-6 2003 2003 STL 18 Michael Irvin* 1-11 1995 1995 DAL 19 Andre Johnson 1-3 2008 2008 HOU 110 Terance Mathis 6-140 1994 1994 ATL 111 Herman Moore 1-10 1995 1995 DET 112 Randy Moss 1-21 2003 2003 MIN 113 Sterling Sharpe 1-7 1993 1993 GNB 114 Rod Smith 2001 2001 DEN 115 Hines Ward 3-92 2002 2002 PIT 116 Reggie Wayne 1-30 2010 2010 IND 117 Roddy White 1-27 2010 2010 ATL 1
Not a bad list to be on the top of.
Xue
Footballguy
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Xue
Footballguy
What % of their team's receiving yards did each player have during the same period?
Run It Up
Footballguy
No idea how I would even begin to compile that list.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure he's talking about not knowing how to write that query, not that he doesn't understand simple math.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Has anyone else done it as well as Welker?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
That would explain the countless other receivers that have played with Brady that put up big receiving totals from Brady over the years. If it's not that hard, certainly everyone else would be doing it. Come to think of it, then every other team would be doing it to, so there should be lots of other players with 500+ receptions over a 5 year period.I am not going to argue that Welker benefits from the system, talent, and coaching in NE. But Welker has been abused going across the middle over the years and still kept on ticking. And if, as you suggest, it is so easy to catch these 10-yard passes, then it should be equally easy to defend them . . . and that clearly hasn't been the case.
CalBear
Footballguy
Uh, no, not even close. Welker is only #4 in WR yardage in the past 5 years, and #15 in WR TDs. In those same five years, Fitzgerald, White, and Wayne all have more yardage and more TDs. Welker has 6105/31 in 77 games. (None of the other three have more than 80 games). Jerry Rice beat that with two completely different 5-year periods (from 1985-1989 (6364/66), and from 1990 to 1994 (6911/65)), and from any 5-year period you choose prior to his injury in 1997. His best was either 1992-1996, where he went for 7305 yards and 61 TDs, or 1986-1990, where he put up 6939/76 despite a strike-shortened season. So, what did you bet?
AmosMoses
Footballguy
Your mom
David Yudkin
Footballguy
How many of the other guys missed zero time while recovering from a torn ACL? Throw out that season, and Welker averaged 117-1314-6 in the other 4 years. Fantasy wise, that's 11 ppg in 0 PPR leagues, and since 2007, that would rank 6th among currently active WR with at least 50 games played in that time (and less than a point per game from ranking 2nd).
CalBear
Footballguy
So, very nice, but hardly one of the best runs of all time.
Xue
Footballguy
It's easy to defend when you don't have a Moss or Gronkowski/Hernandez on the same field, but defenses will give Welker those short completions all day because that's not what will beat them.Welker has a career YPR 11.1 of and YAC of 5.8. Do you know what means? On average, he catches the ball 5.3 yards from the line of scrimmage. Is that not pathetic?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I am not the one suggesting his recent run has been one for the ages in terms of yardage or TD, but his reception total is noteworthy. I agree . . . of the receiving categories to be a force in, receptions is not the most impressive one to be leading in.
Welker is a gutsy player who excels at what he does best -- slot receiver.
Great (HOF?) HC, HOF QB, Great OL, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez...
I'd love to see them add a couple wide-outs in FA like Lloyd and, *IF* he has anything left in the tank, heck, I'd love to see them sign Moss. Otherwise, some other WR opposite Lloyd to help stretch the field. With a couple guys stretching the field on the outside, just imagine the damage Welker and Gronk can do underneath...
I'm not a NE homer, but I enjoy watching them play.
Great (HOF?) HC, HOF QB, Great OL, Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez...
I'd love to see them add a couple wide-outs in FA like Lloyd and, *IF* he has anything left in the tank, heck, I'd love to see them sign Moss. Otherwise, some other WR opposite Lloyd to help stretch the field. With a couple guys stretching the field on the outside, just imagine the damage Welker and Gronk can do underneath...
I'm not a NE homer, but I enjoy watching them play.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
There are plenty of teams that have three solid receiving options on the field at once. Beyond the two TEs, did Branch or Ochocinco strike fear in anyone this year? Again, if it were so easy to copy Welker's success, how come other teams running the same thing and other receivers just as successful.Also, Welker's best two years were the past two . . . when Moss wasn't even there, so the deep route factor drawing coverage is not even in the equation at this point.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Alot of argument here about Welker's numbers, latest stats, etc. The OP's original point was that he's only caught 11 career passes 20+ yards downfield. He is a slot WR and an elite one trick pony....which begs the question...why would the Pats/Brady target him 20+ yards downfield with the Super Bowl on the line?
Chairshot
Footballguy
Geez, man, some of you guys are tough in here. He's a really good WR. Brady has played with a lot of WRs over the years and pretty much none of them have done what Welker has done.
Why is it so hard to give the guy his due? He's a legit top notch WR. If the argument is "well, Jerry Rice was better", then everyone falls short.
I'd love to have him on my favorite team.
Why is it so hard to give the guy his due? He's a legit top notch WR. If the argument is "well, Jerry Rice was better", then everyone falls short.
I'd love to have him on my favorite team.
Xue
Footballguy
He was open and they needed yards. His short receptions weren't gonna cut it so why have him run a short route.
Xue
Footballguy
None of them did what Moss and Gronkowski has done either. I'm pretty sure both guys would put up monster numbers without Welker. But Welker would not without either.
Chairshot
Footballguy
Welker has lead the team in receptions and yards for like 5 years straight or something like that. You think that's because everyone else is so good?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I don't find him very pathetic.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
yeah, I know --- when moss was there some people would insist he was the guy who made welker possible....
Xue
Footballguy
Everyone IS so good and that includes Brady, and the design and playcalling of the offense within the flow of the game.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Since he joined the Patriots he has ranked #8, #10, #2, #17, and #1 in first downs. I wouldn't call that pathetic. He has a role and plays that role well.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Please happen! Please happen! Please happen!Lloyd instantly becomes top 10 again if he goes to the Pats.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The people that are using this as a reason to say that Welker isn't any good are looking at it completely wrongly.
Welker lines up in the slot and either runs a drag or an out on just about every play. As the guy covering Welker, you know that's what he's going to be doing. You don't need to worry about him going downfield. He's either going in or he's going out, those are the options, yet THEY STILL CAN'T COVER HIM.
Stop pinning this on Brady. That's ludicrous. Welker and Hernandez get so open on those underneath routes that a high school QB could get them the ball 95% as often as Brady does. They're 3 yard passes to a guy that has 3 yards of separation. It's easy.
Brady is amazing because he's the best reader of defenses in the history of the NFL. You can't play zone against him because he'll pick it apart and you can't blitz him because he'll find the hole that the blitz leaves before the blitzers get there. As a result, everyone has to play base man defense against the Patriots. That still means that you need guys who can consistently beat base man defense, and that's exactly what the Patriots have built in the middle of the field. As usual with New England, the organization has set up all the pieces to perfectly complement each other.
Is Welker a "one trick pony"? Maybe. But it's a damn important trick and it's one that he's damned good at.
When the Colts have struggled over the years it's because teams could get right up on their WRs/TEs and cover them tight and the WRs/TEs couldn't beat them. Peyton can get them the ball with timing routes and well placed throws but that can only last so long before the perfection that those routes require goes wrong and something really bad happens. You can't do that against New England. If you get up on them and cover them tight then you get beat on every single play.
With Brady killing zone/blitz defenses and Welker/Hernandez abusing anyone that tries to cover them in base man defense, the only ways to shut down the NE offense are to get pressure without blitzing or double the slot guys and leave the corners alone on the edges. Since the latter of those two options goes against traditional football mentality (and hence many coaches are scared to do it even though it's the right move), we end up only seeing it happen when the former occurs.
Welker lines up in the slot and either runs a drag or an out on just about every play. As the guy covering Welker, you know that's what he's going to be doing. You don't need to worry about him going downfield. He's either going in or he's going out, those are the options, yet THEY STILL CAN'T COVER HIM.
Stop pinning this on Brady. That's ludicrous. Welker and Hernandez get so open on those underneath routes that a high school QB could get them the ball 95% as often as Brady does. They're 3 yard passes to a guy that has 3 yards of separation. It's easy.
Brady is amazing because he's the best reader of defenses in the history of the NFL. You can't play zone against him because he'll pick it apart and you can't blitz him because he'll find the hole that the blitz leaves before the blitzers get there. As a result, everyone has to play base man defense against the Patriots. That still means that you need guys who can consistently beat base man defense, and that's exactly what the Patriots have built in the middle of the field. As usual with New England, the organization has set up all the pieces to perfectly complement each other.
Is Welker a "one trick pony"? Maybe. But it's a damn important trick and it's one that he's damned good at.
When the Colts have struggled over the years it's because teams could get right up on their WRs/TEs and cover them tight and the WRs/TEs couldn't beat them. Peyton can get them the ball with timing routes and well placed throws but that can only last so long before the perfection that those routes require goes wrong and something really bad happens. You can't do that against New England. If you get up on them and cover them tight then you get beat on every single play.
With Brady killing zone/blitz defenses and Welker/Hernandez abusing anyone that tries to cover them in base man defense, the only ways to shut down the NE offense are to get pressure without blitzing or double the slot guys and leave the corners alone on the edges. Since the latter of those two options goes against traditional football mentality (and hence many coaches are scared to do it even though it's the right move), we end up only seeing it happen when the former occurs.
Xue
Footballguy
What % of his receptions were first downs? And how does that rank? He doesn't even crack the top 20. Neither does he crack % of targets for first down list.http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=059http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=060Now tell me again how good Welker is.
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Run It Up
Footballguy
Im confused at the point youre trying to make? "How hard is it?" Well since no one has had a similar amount of production/time as Welker has had in the past 5 years - ever, id say its approximately really hard.Comparing him (as has been done in this thread) to a player that doesnt play his role and is arguably the best player to ever play the game (Jerry Rice), is a testament to his on field accomplishments.
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Casting Couch
Footballguy
It's not about only catching the ball. It's about finding open space in the slot, and the ability to take a monster hit while doing so. And Welker is one of the best at it.
Brothers Mayhem
Footballguy
Agree. Every time I see Brady hand the ball off I feel like I have lost a point for Welker, lol.
Brothers Mayhem
Footballguy
Say what you will regarding Wes Welker - he does what they ask of him. They send him on short crossing routes and throw to him 10+ times a game and Welker just keeps catching them. If the O-line could consistently provide time in the pocket for Brady, we might see Welker catch 50 yarders too. But until then, they gonna need fast WR's that get down there quick - lol.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Please explain how you come to this conclusion..
Not only have there been WR's with similar production, but there have been WR's with better production..
And, he is no where near Jerry Rice.. Silly comparison..
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