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2013 Off Season Dynasty Trade Thread (for completed trades) (3 Viewers)

But to repeat, yes Blackmon did indeed have a very good rookie season. What the hell would he have needed to do playing with some of the worst QBs out there to show you otherwise??
The simple answer is that he would have needed to have been more efficient with his opportunities. As I pointed out, his yards per target and conversion rate were not great.

Justin Blackmon - 133 targets, 64 catches, 48.1% conversion rate, 6.50 yards per target

You can say that the QB situation is to blame for his poor performance, but then how do you explain this?

Cecil Shorts - 106 targets, 55 catches, 51.9% conversion rate, 9.23 yards per target

For all the shortcomings of Gabbert and Henne, it's clear that Jacksonville's QB situation wasn't so bad that it completely excuses bad production. Shorts was excellent on the same team with the exact same passers. Arizona is a slightly different beast because all of their receivers struggled.

Larry Fitzgerald - 153 targets, 71 catches, 46.4% conversion rate, 5.22 yards per target

Andre Roberts - 113 targets, 64 catches, 56.6% conversion rate, 6.72 yards per target

Michael Floyd - 86 targets, 45 catches, 52.3% conversion rate, 6.53 yards per target

The fact that none of these guys thrived is indicative of a truly toxic situation, whereas the success of Shorts in Jacksonville pokes some holes in the idea that Henne and Gabbert are to blame for Blackmon's struggles. Being a rookie who was thrust into a prominent role with a big target on his back undoubtedly hurt his efficiency, but there were other first year players in similar situations who did better.

Justin Blackmon - 133 targets, 64 catches, 48.1% conversion rate, 6.50 yards per target

Josh Gordon - 96 targets, 50 catches, 52.1% conversion rate, 8.38 yards per target

Chris Givens - 81 targets, 42 catches, 51.9% conversion rate, 8.62 yards per target

TY Hilton - 91 targets, 50 catches, 54.9% conversion rate, 9.46 yards per target

Julio Jones (2011) - 96 targets, 54 catches, 56.3% conversion rate, 9.99 yards per target

AJ Green (2011) - 116 targets, 65 catches, 56.0% conversion rate, 9.11 yards per target

A big mistake people make in FF is just looking at the year end totals without analyzing how the player got there. This is another good example of that phenomenon. People really overrate how well Blackmon did last year. He was more of an accumulator than a playmaker, succeeding by virtue of sheer opportunity and not because he was effective when called upon. I'm still fairly high on his talent, but that's based more on what I think he might become than on what he was last year.
I hope you are not assuming that all I do is look at the numbers, cause I sure as hell don't.

But when talking about the difference in efficiency between Blackmon and Shorts, didn't we already discuss a bit the difference between being covered by a team's #1 corners vs. their #2 corner??

Anyway, done with this conversation. Blackmon looks every bit the part of a very nice NFL WR in the making. Just needs to stop getting suspended.

 
YPT without context is a flawed stat (not suggesting you don't know that). And you're comparing him to 8 guys who Blackmon could end up being worse than, and still make his fantasy owners very happy. The first half was bad - he was being forced low quality targets by Gabbert. No excuse, Blackmon didn't play very well and didn't present many quality targets either. But the second half of the season was on par with the elite rookie WR seasons.
If my math is correct his second half splits were:

79 targets, 41 catches, 51.89% conversion rate, 8.10 yards per target

More on par with what you'd expect from a top player. I have him on 3 of 7 dynasty teams and have always rated him pretty highly, so I'm a fan of his game. Just pointing out that his rookie year was a mixed bag. He was bad in the first half and better in the second half, with a lot of his production concentrated in one game.

 
Blackmon had a great 2nd half of the season. He came in to camp late and didn't have chemistry with Gabbert. Feel free to pro-rate 2nd half stats and feel great about his football prospects, if he can stay on the field.
I think it's bit of an over simplification to say he had a great second half and did not have chemistry with Gabbert. He stunk with Gabbert, period. His play spiked the game Gabbert got hurt. I don't see that as coincidence. I won't argue that he likely improved as the season went on but the spike was to large for me to chalk up to just improvement on Blackmons part.

For Dynasty not the biggest concern in the world because if Gabbert does not improve he won't be his QB past this season. Someone mentioned in an earlier post, might have been you, that Blackmon proved his QB does not matter. I don't agree with that all.It's impressive that you can perform with Henne but from what I saw last year his QB does matter.

It's kind of how I used to view Britt. His stats spiked when Vince Young was not the QB and Kerry Collins was which led to me believe he could perform with a less than average QB. Juries still out on that one.

As for the Floyd vs Blackmon debate. I'm of the opinion Floyd dealt with sub-Gabbert play all year. When you look at his efficiency vs that of Fitzgerald it's hard for me be be down on his lack of production. I believe this was laid out nicely by EBF. In terms of fantasy they averaged the same fantasy points per attempt, 1.37. Now Floyd is the one that gets the major QB jump and if you review the fantasy relevance of WR's under Arians it's stellar. Also taking into account Floyd is not a strike away from a year long absence I'd rate them about evenly myself.
What do you make of his improved play without Gabbert, then? It's not as though he went from Gabbert to a quality NFL starter. He still put up numbers with Henne. He started slow, but he got to camp late, too.

I don't have a great read on Floyd, and perhaps he is underrated. But I don't agree with the statement that Blackmon didn't have a good rookie year. It's half true. The second half showed future NFL WR1 to me.
Don't attribute the bolded to me. I did not say that, he did have a good rookie year. I was just pointing out he was dismal with Gabbert. I'll also add my opinion of Blackmon spiked positively during the pre-season because he does pass the eye test.

Why the improvement without Gabbert besides the obvious that Gabbert sucks? I really can't say for sure. Chemistry issues you'd think. Some QB's don't trust their WR's to make plays, some do. It's like when Kolb first went to Arizona it was maddening that it took him so long to understand that Fitz is not covered even when he's covered.
Chemistry issues between a rookie WR who came to camp late and a crappy QB in his 2nd year??? The HELL you say. 1st time for everything, right?

People on here seem to over-analyze a lot of this stuff. Blackmon looks and plays like a very good WR with strong potential to be a legit #1 WR in the NFL. Don't go and nitpick every little number from last year from a horrendous situation. Situations change all the time in the NFL, but Blackmon will always have his talent. All the top WRs are a QB injury away from a Fitzgerald type turn for the worse.

 
?????????????????????????Blackmon didn't have a good rookie year? That's news to me. If I recall correctly his stats were better than Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, and close to AJ Green (little less yardage), as well as better than a slew of other high profile WRs in their rookie years. All of that with a bottom feeder QB throwing him the ball
His rookie year looks better than it was on paper because most people still just focus on the year end totals without looking deeper into the stats. 865 receiving yards is a good rookie season in a vacuum, but is it a good rookie season for someone who receives 133 targets? I think that's a lot more questionable. Here's how his rookie year compares to some prominent high picks, including the guys you mentioned: Justin Blackmon - 133 targets, 64 catches, 48.1% conversion rate, 6.50 yards per targetJulio Jones (2011) - 96 targets, 54 catches, 56.3% conversion rate, 9.99 yards per targetAJ Green (2011) - 116 targets, 65 catches, 56.0% conversion rate, 9.11 yards per targetDez Bryant (2010) - 72 targets, 45 catches, 62.5% conversion rate, 7.79 yards per targetMichael Crabtree (2009) - 86 targets, 48 catches, 55.8% conversion rate, 7.27 yards per targetPercy Harvin (2009) - 91 targets, 60 catches, 65.9% conversion rate, 8.68 yards per targetHakeem Nicks (2009) - 75 targets, 47 catches, 62.7% conversion rate, 10.53 yards per targetCalvin Johnson (2007) - 95 targets, 48 catches, 50.5% conversion rate, 7.96 yards per target Blackmon's yardage might have been better than a lot of these guys, but that doesn't mean he had a better rookie year. Jones and Green had more yards on fewer opportunities and in my view clearly outplayed Blackmon. It's closer with some of these others, but they all had higher conversion rates and yards per target averages. Sometimes by a wide margin. The main reason why Blackmon's stats look like they're on par with guys like Calvin and Dez is because he had more targets by a huge margin. If you had given Calvin 133 targets as a rookie, he probably would've broken the 1000 yard barrier. For the sake of comparison, Dez Bryant had 138 targets and 1382 receiving yards last season. 5 more targets than Blackmon. 517 more yards. It's not fair to compare a third year veteran with a rookie, but the idea that Blackmon had a great rookie year is a bit off base in my opinion. On the balance, his stats weren't that great. Josh Gordon had a superior rookie year by far in similar circumstances. If you rate Blackmon highly, it should be with the belief that he'll improve significantly in future seasons. He was a volume player as a rookie, not a playmaker.
You are looking far too deep into the stats though.

He LOOKS and PLAYS like a legit WR who is ready for big things. But if you wanna super psycho analyze all the numbers, go ahead. I'll go with the guys who look good and have the makeup of a guy who has strong potential to be a top end guy.

 
But when talking about the difference in efficiency between Blackmon and Shorts, didn't we already discuss a bit the difference between being covered by a team's #1 corners vs. their #2 corner??
I didn't watch the games in enough detail to know who was drawing what kind of coverage. All I know is that Shorts was much more efficient and productive with an identical supporting cast. He had more yards, a higher catch %, a much higher yards per target average, more TDs, and 17 catches of 20+ yards compared to 9 for Blackmon. Shorts outplayed Blackmon by a pretty wide margin over the course of the whole season. Whether that's due to experience, easier coverage, or superior talent, I don't know. Probably some combination of those factors. I wouldn't say Shorts is definitely better than Blackmon, but it's weird that so many people have him rated so low and Blackmon so high when he was actually the better receiver last year.

 
YPT without context is a flawed stat (not suggesting you don't know that). And you're comparing him to 8 guys who Blackmon could end up being worse than, and still make his fantasy owners very happy. The first half was bad - he was being forced low quality targets by Gabbert. No excuse, Blackmon didn't play very well and didn't present many quality targets either. But the second half of the season was on par with the elite rookie WR seasons.
If my math is correct his second half splits were:

79 targets, 41 catches, 51.89% conversion rate, 8.10 yards per target

More on par with what you'd expect from a top player. I have him on 3 of 7 dynasty teams and have always rated him pretty highly, so I'm a fan of his game. Just pointing out that his rookie year was a mixed bag. He was bad in the first half and better in the second half, with a lot of his production concentrated in one game.
A rookie WR playing with trashy QBs being inconsistent. What's next, the sun is hot?? Water is wet??

Groundbreaking stuff here.

I am so glad I dont spend the time going over all these numbers. I would want to shoot myself.

 
12 Team PPR Starting QRRWWTFD + 2 Flex, 1 Flex Q eligible

Team K gives: Jamaal Charles

Team J gives Lamar Miller, John Stewart, 1.04

 
But when talking about the difference in efficiency between Blackmon and Shorts, didn't we already discuss a bit the difference between being covered by a team's #1 corners vs. their #2 corner??
I didn't watch the games in enough detail to know who was drawing what kind of coverage. All I know is that Shorts was much more efficient and productive with an identical supporting cast. He had more yards, a higher catch %, a much higher yards per target average, more TDs, and 17 catches of 20+ yards compared to 9 for Blackmon. Shorts outplayed Blackmon by a pretty wide margin over the course of the whole season. Whether that's due to experience, easier coverage, or superior talent, I don't know. Probably some combination of those factors. I wouldn't say Shorts is definitely better than Blackmon, but it's weird that so many people have him rated so low and Blackmon so high when he was actually the better receiver last year.
He wasnt the better WR though, he just had the better stats for the season.

According to you, about 40 WRs are better than Larry Fitzgerald.

I will take stock in what I see on the field, not the crunching of the numbers 5 months later.

 
According to you, about 40 WRs are better than Larry Fitzgerald.
If there were 40 WRs on the Cardinals with better stats than Fitzgerald, that might be worth discussing.

We're not talking about players with different supporting casts though. Shorts clearly outproduced Blackmon last season on the same team with the same quarterbacks. I think we can attribute some of that to his edge in experience and to the idea that he might have seen softer coverage if teams were determined to neutralize Blackmon, but I think it's also true that the talent gap between the two has been exaggerated.

 
I think it's also true that the talent gap between the two has been exaggerated.
I agree, in a big way. But I think that says more about Shorts than Blackmon. If not for the medical red flags, I'd have Shorts close to where I had Blackmon pre-suspension.

 
I am trying to get the 1.1 pick this year, need some help to see if I am paying too much....

With the pick I am getting, I will draft Montee Ball

Give: Mike Wallance + 2.13

For: 1.1 + 2.1

Give: D Richardson + D Alexander + 2014 1st round

For 1.1

One a separate note, I got an offer of trading Sam Bradford for 1.11 (I am targeting Lattimore for this pick) good?

Thanks!

 
I am trying to get the 1.1 pick this year, need some help to see if I am paying too much....

With the pick I am getting, I will draft Montee Ball

Give: Mike Wallance + 2.13

For: 1.1 + 2.1

Give: D Richardson + D Alexander + 2014 1st round

For 1.1

One a separate note, I got an offer of trading Sam Bradford for 1.11 (I am targeting Lattimore for this pick) good?

Thanks!
You might be able to find some answers here, or some advice:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12

 
Can we all be done with the Blackmon thing? There is a thread for that discussion too. Probably more than one within the first couple pages too.

 
12 team, PPR, dynasty. 25-man rosters.

Team A receives:

Percy Harvin and Evan Royster (rostering the other Wash RBs)

Team B receives:

Hakeem Nicks and Chris Ivory

 
12 team 1ppr, not involved. 1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/1 flex can be RB/WR/TE

team a got - Miles Austin, 4.08

team b got - Jonathan Stewart, 4.03

Team A had drafted Terrance Williams early 3rd, so I'm guessing he's looking to corner the Tony Romo market.

 
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
I will pay that for dez then sit back and have a nice cold beer.
No go for me. Take away the 2nd rd piks from each side. That means Dez is equal to two 1st rd picks/one 2nd rd and jeffrey/randle.I wouldn't pay two 1st and a second alone unless the two first are mid-late, let alone a 1.02
You are aware this is the 2013 draft class right?

This is a classic trade that really good teams are able to pull off once every 2-3 years after acquiring all those small "pieces" and movign them for a top 5 player at his position.

Maybe in a league where you start like 10 RB/WR/TE, but in 12 team leagues starting 7 or less I take Dez here all day every day.

 
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
I will pay that for dez then sit back and have a nice cold beer.
No go for me. Take away the 2nd rd piks from each side. That means Dez is equal to two 1st rd picks/one 2nd rd and jeffrey/randle.I wouldn't pay two 1st and a second alone unless the two first are mid-late, let alone a 1.02
You are aware this is the 2013 draft class right?

This is a classic trade that really good teams are able to pull off once every 2-3 years after acquiring all those small "pieces" and movign them for a top 5 player at his position.

Maybe in a league where you start like 10 RB/WR/TE, but in 12 team leagues starting 7 or less I take Dez here all day every day.
Are the '14 picks also the 2013 draft class?

 
Are the '14 picks also the 2013 draft class?
Clearly I was responding to the "let alone pick 2" comment.

But it's ok. Differences of opinions and phiosophies are why deals like this happen. I also like to trade studs for more part, but I also like to make sure the parts are better than these ones

 
Are the '14 picks also the 2013 draft class?
Clearly I was responding to the "let alone pick 2" comment.

But it's ok. Differences of opinions and phiosophies are why deals like this happen. I also like to trade studs for more part, but I also like to make sure the parts are better than these ones
Honestly, that wasn't clear to me. I thought you may have missed that the majority of the picks traded were for next year.

I like Dez a lot, but man, that's a lot to give up. I'd probably take the picks, but can understand liking the Dez side.

 
Are the '14 picks also the 2013 draft class?
Clearly I was responding to the "let alone pick 2" comment.

But it's ok. Differences of opinions and phiosophies are why deals like this happen. I also like to trade studs for more part, but I also like to make sure the parts are better than these ones
Honestly, that wasn't clear to me. I thought you may have missed that the majority of the picks traded were for next year.

I like Dez a lot, but man, that's a lot to give up. I'd probably take the picks, but can understand liking the Dez side.
The 2nd rounders do nothing for me. Also, this is a league where in February you have to cut down to 14 QB/RB/WR/TE. That also plays a very large factor, and actually in this thread all the FFPC trades should be labeled as such to put trades like this in better perspective.

A year from now, half the players in that deal have a fairly high chance of being cut in that league. I haev seen several 1st rounders on waivers and in the rookie/free agent draft less than a year after they were drafted.

Where that 2014 1st ends up does play a roll of course, no idea how that pick looks at the moment.

 
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10 team NON PPR

Los Angeles gave up:
Rice, Ray BAL RB
McNutt, Marvin PHI WR
Pierre-Paul, Jason NYG DE
Year 2013 Draft Pick 5.08
Year 2014 Round 6 Draft Pick from Los Angeles

Oklahoma gave up:
Bolden, Brandon NEP RB
Mathews, Ryan SDC RB
Jeffery, Alshon CHI WR
Watt, J.J. HOU DE
Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from Oklahoma
Year 2015 Round 1 Draft Pick from Oklahoma

The picks likely late - DF players not worth much in this league (2 pts per sack)

 
Mathews, Jeffrey, and two late future 1sts for Rice. Winner to the side getting Rice

 
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16 team PPR (TE 1.5)

Octochives | panhead55Spiller, C.J. BUF RBJackson, Vincent TBB WRYear 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from Octochives | panhead55Kronsteen | OpieMartin, Doug TBB RBGarcon, Pierre WAS WRYear 2013 Draft Pick 1.10

 
12 team non-PPR

Team A gave:

Spiller, Stephen Hill, 3.03 rookie pick

Team B gave:

I. Pead, D. Richardson, D. Bowe, 1.6 rookie

 
16 team PPR (TE 1.5) Octochives | panhead55Spiller, C.J. BUF RBJackson, Vincent TBB WRYear 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from Octochives | panhead55Kronsteen | OpieMartin, Doug TBB RBGarcon, Pierre WAS WRYear 2013 Draft Pick 1.10
Ill take the Spiller side.
 
Dez Bryant 2.05 ForAlshon Jeffrey Rueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
Same league as the above listed tradeFFPC $25007 rd Rookie/FA draft Vick Ballard Ryan WilliamsDanario Alexander4.087.02FORStevie JohnsonMichael Floyd Team that acquired Dez is same team getting SJ / Floyd
 
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BallzDeep said:
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
Same league as the above listed tradeFFPC $25007 rd Rookie/FA draftVick BallardRyan WilliamsDanario Alexander4.087.02FORStevie JohnsonMichael FloydTeam that acquired Dez is same team getting SJ / Floyd
Ah, good ole Ground & Pound (Jeremy Roach & Danny Mueller) adding another elite player and putting together my kind of team with a very similar taste in players. Nicely done. I’ve been following you guys and the portfolio you are building and really think you’ll be making a lot of money in dynasty in the near future. In fact, I consider you guys as possibly the single greatest threat down the road to my career dynasty gross winnings record (unofficial), particularly if you can win a string of titles in the $2500 (for a ridiculous $15,000+ per title). Good luck to you guys.

 
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BallzDeep said:
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
Same league as the above listed tradeFFPC $25007 rd Rookie/FA draftVick BallardRyan WilliamsDanario Alexander4.087.02FORStevie JohnsonMichael FloydTeam that acquired Dez is same team getting SJ / Floyd
Ah, good ole Ground & Pound (Jeremy Roach & Danny Mueller) adding another elite player and putting together my kind of team with a very similar taste in players. Nicely done. I’ve been following you guys and the portfolio you are building and really think you’ll be making a lot of money in dynasty in the near future. In fact, I consider you guys as possibly the single greatest threat down the road to my career dynasty gross winnings record (unofficial), particularly if you can win a string of titles in the $2500 (for a ridiculous $15,000+ per title). Good luck to you guys.
Is it that they are so good, or the other people are so bad for giving away their players. Maybe a bit of both.

For every great team, chances are there are 1-2 struggling teams who gave that bad team their best players for "pieces".

Nice deals there RED

 
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10 team super flex, start 11 players, 1-2 QB, 2-4 RB, 3-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 1-2 K, 1-2 DST

Team A gives: Ryan Tannehill

Team B gives: Josh Freeman, Cecil Shorts, 14 4th

We have a waiver rule where you can only pick up one player during a waiver period, and it runs twice a week. You keep all players picked up until draft time rolls around, and have to cut/trade all but one. Team B's keeper was Dennis Pitta. Shorts was a FA pick up.

 
12 team PPR, 3 rookie draft trades

  • Nuk-Town 2013 gave up Ingram, Mark NOS RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 3.04;Year 2013 Draft Pick 4.04
  • Rx Rated gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.05;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.07
  • Kap'n Graham's Muscle Hamster Wheels gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.07;Year 2013 Draft Pick 3.07; Year 2014 Round 2 Draft Pick from Kap'n Graham's Muscle Hamster Wheels
  • Rx Rated gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.01;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.06; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from Rx Rated
 
10 team super flex, start 11 players, 1-2 QB, 2-4 RB, 3-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 1-2 K, 1-2 DSTTeam A gives: Ryan TannehillTeam B gives: Josh Freeman, Cecil Shorts, 14 4thWe have a waiver rule where you can only pick up one player during a waiver period, and it runs twice a week. You keep all players picked up until draft time rolls around, and have to cut/trade all but one. Team B's keeper was Dennis Pitta. Shorts was a FA pick up.
And I just did this with the guy that acquired Shorts since he didn't need to keep anyone elseGave 4.07Received: Rod Streater, 6.09. Was going to keep NE DST..
 
12 team PPR

Start 1/2/2/1 and a flex

Gave

Amendola

Pitta

Got

Welker

2.04

I've already got Hernandez and Welker will likely be my flex.

 
BallzDeep said:
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
Same league as the above listed tradeFFPC $25007 rd Rookie/FA draftVick BallardRyan WilliamsDanario Alexander4.087.02FORStevie JohnsonMichael FloydTeam that acquired Dez is same team getting SJ / Floyd
Ah, good ole Ground & Pound (Jeremy Roach & Danny Mueller) adding another elite player and putting together my kind of team with a very similar taste in players. Nicely done. I’ve been following you guys and the portfolio you are building and really think you’ll be making a lot of money in dynasty in the near future. In fact, I consider you guys as possibly the single greatest threat down the road to my career dynasty gross winnings record (unofficial), particularly if you can win a string of titles in the $2500 (for a ridiculous $15,000+ per title). Good luck to you guys.
Is it that they are so good, or the other people are so bad for giving away their players. Maybe a bit of both.

For every great team, chances are there are 1-2 struggling teams who gave that bad team their best players for "pieces".

Nice deals there RED
That's irrelevant to me. Every team in the league has a chance to make the same kind of deals. When I see a team "take advantage" of another team I never think about it terms of they did not do a good job because they obviously did. Instead I usually am upset at myself for not being proactive enough to offer up similar deals. It's like I'll say things to myself like why did I not think to make an offer like that?

Now, and don't take offense to this Ground and Pound, I believe you two offer the worst trades on a consistent basis I play in leagues with. Don't get wrong, we've made some deals so they are not all bad but you guys sure don't mind offering up a one sided deal in hopes the other party just might hit accept I just wish you would realize I'm not that guy. You two have me thinking I should stop trying so hard to put what I deem as fair trades together and just start throwing offers out hoping someone hits accept. And I mean that as a compliment, I really do because you two have pulled off some really good trades.

Anyway congrats on both these deals, they are great for you. I wish you two had not bailed on my $500 league either. I enjoy your activity level and being in a league with you two.

 
SpineDoc said:
Dez said:
16 team PPR (TE 1.5) Octochives | panhead55Spiller, C.J. BUF RBJackson, Vincent TBB WRYear 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from Octochives | panhead55Kronsteen | OpieMartin, Doug TBB RBGarcon, Pierre WAS WRYear 2013 Draft Pick 1.10
Ill take the Spiller side.
I'd go the other way. I've got Martin as my #2 RB and CJ #3. Even with this foot issues I'd still take Garcon over VJAX and I consider there to be a price for patience so I consider a late current first rounder to generally be on par with a future first rounder even if it's a better class unless you have a strong confidence that future first is going to be a high pick.

 
BallzDeep said:
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
Same league as the above listed tradeFFPC $25007 rd Rookie/FA draftVick BallardRyan WilliamsDanario Alexander4.087.02FORStevie JohnsonMichael FloydTeam that acquired Dez is same team getting SJ / Floyd
Ah, good ole Ground & Pound (Jeremy Roach & Danny Mueller) adding another elite player and putting together my kind of team with a very similar taste in players. Nicely done. I’ve been following you guys and the portfolio you are building and really think you’ll be making a lot of money in dynasty in the near future. In fact, I consider you guys as possibly the single greatest threat down the road to my career dynasty gross winnings record (unofficial), particularly if you can win a string of titles in the $2500 (for a ridiculous $15,000+ per title). Good luck to you guys.
Is it that they are so good, or the other people are so bad for giving away their players. Maybe a bit of both.

For every great team, chances are there are 1-2 struggling teams who gave that bad team their best players for "pieces".

Nice deals there RED
That's irrelevant to me. Every team in the league has a chance to make the same kind of deals. When I see a team "take advantage" of another team I never think about it terms of they did not do a good job because they obviously did. Instead I usually am upset at myself for not being proactive enough to offer up similar deals. It's like I'll say things to myself like why did I not think to make an offer like that?

Now, and don't take offense to this Ground and Pound, I believe you two offer the worst trades on a consistent basis I play in leagues with. Don't get wrong, we've made some deals so they are not all bad but you guys sure don't mind offering up a one sided deal in hopes the other party just might hit accept I just wish you would realize I'm not that guy. You two have me thinking I should stop trying so hard to put what I deem as fair trades together and just start throwing offers out hoping someone hits accept. And I mean that as a compliment, I really do because you two have pulled off some really good trades.

Anyway congrats on both these deals, they are great for you. I wish you two had not bailed on my $500 league either. I enjoy your activity level and being in a league with you two.
First off I want to clarify and clear Danny from your statement. I make 95% of the offers of the teams Danny and I share, so you think I make the consistently worst offers. Perhaps this idea is because of the leagues I am in with you, I am one of the few people who actually make offers. Off the top of my head I can only think of 750#2 and John's Big F'n league that I am still in with you. Previously when I had a team in HOF and that 500 you referenced, am I missing one? Ironically of all the FFPC leagues I am in, 750#2 and that 500 are/ were by far the most boring (not implying you at all, mere coincidence). That is the reason I put my team FOR SALE in 500 and did not "bail" on it. I simply asked Dave to post it for sale and if it didn't sell in 2-3 weeks, we were staying. The lack of inactivity drove me away, and owners not even answering emails for months.

The bolded above is realized and noted. I am not sure how I was not to take any offense to you saying in a public forum that my offers are the worst. But at any rate this is not the place for this.

Thanks for the comments on the listed trades. The Dez one was actually a 2 - day discussion and the offer was proposed to us. The other was talked through e-mail and agreed upon. So neither of those were fishing offers that were just accepted.

 
Had a couple trades go off in my Superflex league. Both with same team. Only mistake I made in this is I got Devery Henderson when I could have gotten Andre Brown (I think and I own David Wilson).

Gave Ryan Mathews and Kevin Kolb

Got: Sam Bradford and Devery Henderson

Also different trade with same team

Gave: Ray Rice, 1.03

Got: AJ Green, 2.08 (20th overall)

 
BallzDeep said:
Dez Bryant2.05ForAlshon JeffreyRueben Randle1.02'14 1st'14 2nd(2nd) '14 2nd
Same league as the above listed tradeFFPC $25007 rd Rookie/FA draftVick BallardRyan WilliamsDanario Alexander4.087.02FORStevie JohnsonMichael FloydTeam that acquired Dez is same team getting SJ / Floyd
Ah, good ole Ground & Pound (Jeremy Roach & Danny Mueller) adding another elite player and putting together my kind of team with a very similar taste in players. Nicely done. I’ve been following you guys and the portfolio you are building and really think you’ll be making a lot of money in dynasty in the near future. In fact, I consider you guys as possibly the single greatest threat down the road to my career dynasty gross winnings record (unofficial), particularly if you can win a string of titles in the $2500 (for a ridiculous $15,000+ per title). Good luck to you guys.
Is it that they are so good, or the other people are so bad for giving away their players. Maybe a bit of both.

For every great team, chances are there are 1-2 struggling teams who gave that bad team their best players for "pieces".

Nice deals there RED
That's irrelevant to me. Every team in the league has a chance to make the same kind of deals. When I see a team "take advantage" of another team I never think about it terms of they did not do a good job because they obviously did. Instead I usually am upset at myself for not being proactive enough to offer up similar deals. It's like I'll say things to myself like why did I not think to make an offer like that?

Now, and don't take offense to this Ground and Pound, I believe you two offer the worst trades on a consistent basis I play in leagues with. Don't get wrong, we've made some deals so they are not all bad but you guys sure don't mind offering up a one sided deal in hopes the other party just might hit accept I just wish you would realize I'm not that guy. You two have me thinking I should stop trying so hard to put what I deem as fair trades together and just start throwing offers out hoping someone hits accept. And I mean that as a compliment, I really do because you two have pulled off some really good trades.

Anyway congrats on both these deals, they are great for you. I wish you two had not bailed on my $500 league either. I enjoy your activity level and being in a league with you two.
First off I want to clarify and clear Danny from your statement. I make 95% of the offers of the teams Danny and I share, so you think I make the consistently worst offers. Perhaps this idea is because of the leagues I am in with you, I am one of the few people who actually make offers. Off the top of my head I can only think of 750#2 and John's Big F'n league that I am still in with you. Previously when I had a team in HOF and that 500 you referenced, am I missing one? Ironically of all the FFPC leagues I am in, 750#2 and that 500 are/ were by far the most boring (not implying you at all, mere coincidence). That is the reason I put my team FOR SALE in 500 and did not "bail" on it. I simply asked Dave to post it for sale and if it didn't sell in 2-3 weeks, we were staying. The lack of inactivity drove me away, and owners not even answering emails for months.

The bolded above is realized and noted. I am not sure how I was not to take any offense to you saying in a public forum that my offers are the worst. But at any rate this is not the place for this.

Thanks for the comments on the listed trades. The Dez one was actually a 2 - day discussion and the offer was proposed to us. The other was talked through e-mail and agreed upon. So neither of those were fishing offers that were just accepted.
I did not mean to use the term "bail" as a negative. Never meant that it that way at all and your right it's a boring league but not nearly as bad as Big F'ing which is hard as could be to make a trade's in. I'd also add in the $750 league about 80% of my trades have either been with your or CKC otherwise not exactly a super active league either. I just generally like having you in my league due to your activity level and yes you do make a lot of trade offers which is why I like being in leagues with you.

As for the trade offers comment I'm man enough to apologize and say it was poor judgment on my part to list it in a public forum. I'm probably just still smarting over two recent offers you made me but I don't want to get into it anymore.

So agina I hope you accept my apology and let's move on with me trying to beat you in the leagues we are still in togehter.

 
I have got a couple pretty good offers from Ground and Pound that I have not taken and really regretted it later. In particular they offered me last year Charles for Stewart and the 1.9 rookie pick. Now maybe since Charles was coming off a blown knee and his value was only slightly higher in startups at the time the deal didn't look at the time as good as it looks a year later. Charles was like a 3rd round startup last year early 3rd while I seen Stewart range from late 3rd to early 5th. That 1.9 rookie pick in FFPC was usually around 9th round startup. So a pretty fair deal at the time and now way in Charles favor as Stewart has just never got it going. So wish I had taken that trade and thought it was very fair at the time and I mauled it over for a few days. I think we all make offers in our favor in our own eyes a lot at least to start out because you know people want to come back to you and usually want more, very rare an offer is taken on 1st offer unless it really is great for you.

I don't make any offers in #2 league because well I am still a little bitter of what was said during the draft last year so I pretty much have said I won't make any offers to all the teams that were sending all the nasty emails and posts last year about me, also a little bitter still that because I turned down a Benson for Dez offer saying "Hold on while I clean up the vomit off the floor" that he came back telling me "You are a hopeless case Good luck with your 4-10 team". Ok maybe I shouldn't have said something like that but man that was 1 awful trade offer and I think it would have made me more hopeless had I accepted it then if I declined it.

So that is why I don't make offers to certain teams in that league and I don't make offers in general plus my team has sucked the last 2 years sucking out any of the fun as well for me there.

 
I have got a couple pretty good offers from Ground and Pound that I have not taken and really regretted it later. In particular they offered me last year Charles for Stewart and the 1.9 rookie pick. Now maybe since Charles was coming off a blown knee and his value was only slightly higher in startups at the time the deal didn't look at the time as good as it looks a year later. Charles was like a 3rd round startup last year early 3rd while I seen Stewart range from late 3rd to early 5th. That 1.9 rookie pick in FFPC was usually around 9th round startup. So a pretty fair deal at the time and now way in Charles favor as Stewart has just never got it going. So wish I had taken that trade and thought it was very fair at the time and I mauled it over for a few days. I think we all make offers in our favor in our own eyes a lot at least to start out because you know people want to come back to you and usually want more, very rare an offer is taken on 1st offer unless it really is great for you.

I don't make any offers in #2 league because well I am still a little bitter of what was said during the draft last year so I pretty much have said I won't make any offers to all the teams that were sending all the nasty emails and posts last year about me, also a little bitter still that because I turned down a Benson for Dez offer saying "Hold on while I clean up the vomit off the floor" that he came back telling me "You are a hopeless case Good luck with your 4-10 team". Ok maybe I shouldn't have said something like that but man that was 1 awful trade offer and I think it would have made me more hopeless had I accepted it then if I declined it.

So that is why I don't make offers to certain teams in that league and I don't make offers in general plus my team has sucked the last 2 years sucking out any of the fun as well for me there.
I also got a Charles offer last year and I can't recall the details except to say Charles was the best player I would have got back and Helu would have been the best player I gave up. I turned it down, easily. I know I was giving up more than Helu but without remembering the details I'm pretty sure it was a huge mistake turning down that offer.

With regards to not wanting to deal with teams you've had words or not gotten along with. I like the take Joe Banner had when he traded with the Steelers. If you think you are getting the better end of the deal I think is should make you want be even more inclined to deal with your competition or adversary.

 
also a little bitter still that because I turned down a Benson for Dez offer saying "Hold on while I clean up the vomit off the floor" that he came back telling me "You are a hopeless case Good luck with your 4-10 team". Ok maybe I shouldn't have said something like that but man that was 1 awful trade offer and I think it would have made me more hopeless had I accepted it then if I declined it.
Your reply wasn't the greatest but that's really lame. I'm sure he thought you giving up Dez for Benson was really going to turn your team around. :thumbdown:

 
Few trades that have happened so far during a rookie draft:

12 Team 1PPR, QB-Superflex-2RB-2WR-1TE-1Flex (RB/WR/TE)

Team A gave: Jeremy Maclin, 2.12

Team B gave: 1.08, 2.08 (1.08 was used to draft EJ Manuel)

Team A gave: 2.03, 3.12, 4.12 (2.03 was used to draft Markus Wheaton)

Team C gave: 2.07, 2.10

 
Is it that they are so good, or the other people are so bad for giving away their players. Maybe a bit of both.
That's irrelevant to me. Every team in the league has a chance to make the same kind of deals. When I see a team "take advantage" of another team I never think about it terms of they did not do a good job because they obviously did. Instead I usually am upset at myself for not being proactive enough to offer up similar deals. It's like I'll say things to myself like why did I not think to make an offer like that?

Now, and don't take offense to this Ground and Pound, I believe you two offer the worst trades on a consistent basis I play in leagues with. Don't get wrong, we've made some deals so they are not all bad but you guys sure don't mind offering up a one sided deal in hopes the other party just might hit accept I just wish you would realize I'm not that guy. You two have me thinking I should stop trying so hard to put what I deem as fair trades together and just start throwing offers out hoping someone hits accept. And I mean that as a compliment, I really do because you two have pulled off some really good trades.

Anyway congrats on both these deals, they are great for you. I wish you two had not bailed on my $500 league either. I enjoy your activity level and being in a league with you two.
I couldn't disagree more. There have been several times I have offered much more for a guy, only to have that team turn around and trade him to someone else much cheaper than I had offered.

Good example. In my league with Ernol, I offered Steve Johnson and a 2014 1st (easily non playoff) for Russell Wilson. The guy said no, and that Wilson was a mega stud, and that the ONLY player on my team he would discuss dealing Wilson for was Jamaal Charles.......................only to have the guy trade Wilson to Ernol like 4 days later for pick 7 and Dwyer. Now, who in their right mind would take pick 7 and Dwyer over Johnson and a 99.99999% guaranteed top 5 pick next year.

This particular scenario has NOTHING to do with my abilities or Ernol's abilities, and has everything to do with that owner not only asking the world for Wilson, but then selling him cheaper than my offer to him.

Are you going to tell me you would be upset at yourself for not being proactive enough in that situation??

 
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12 team PPR starting it's 11th season, lots of activity this week.

Team B gives: 1.03, 1.09, 2014 1st (of team J), Romo

Team J gives: 1.05 2016 1st and 2nd, Stafford

Team E gives: A Hernandez, 3.01

Team J gives: Olsen, Pitta, 1.09

Team E gives: Pead, 1.10

Team B gives: 1.05

Team T (me) gives: 1.01, Ivory, J Baldwin, 2014 2nd (middle of pack)

Team R gives: 1.04, K Wright, 3.02, 2014 1st (middle of pack)

 
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