Official Johnny Manziel Thread (1 Viewer)

[cvnpoka]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

 

[amnesiac]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

i wrote him off before he was drafted. but i'm curious, how many games do you think they should give him?

 

[Buffaloes]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

to be fair, a lot of folks didn't even need to see this performance to write Manziel off as a starting NFL QB

 

[Mr. Retukes]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

Maybe, but I'd like to see the list of recent rookies who played this poorly in their first start. I wonder how many of them ended up being decent players.

 

[matuski]

That was pretty damn awful.

Their defense may have been worse though.

 

[matuski]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

i wrote him off before he was drafted.but i'm curious, how many games do you think they should give him?

About the same as they would anyone else is the obvious answer...?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Please change the title to "Johnny Manziel: CBS Sports Prospects"

 

[cstu]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

Maybe, but I'd like to see the list of recent rookies who played this poorly in their first start. I wonder how many of them ended up being decent players.

In his first start Alex Smith was 9/23 for 74/0/4.

Tannehill was 20/36 for 219/0/3.

 

[pantherclub]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

no its not

 

[amnesiac]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

i wrote him off before he was drafted.but i'm curious, how many games do you think they should give him?

About the same as they would anyone else is the obvious answer...?

27.3

 

[Buffaloes]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

i wrote him off before he was drafted.but i'm curious, how many games do you think they should give him?

About the same as they would anyone else is the obvious answer...?

27.3

gonna feel bad for Cle fans if he gets more than 1/9 of that opportunity to start.

 

[amnesiac]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

i wrote him off before he was drafted.but i'm curious, how many games do you think they should give him?

About the same as they would anyone else is the obvious answer...?

27.3

gonna feel bad for Cle fans if he gets more than 1/9 of that opportunity to start.

no, that was his QB rating today.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow I would love to hear if posters actually watched that game. That had to be the worst QB performance I have seen in ages. He was lost, physically outmatched, clueless, the offense looked like a div. II college, and to top it off he showed bad judgement and poor attitude on the field and on the sideline. I don't think any of the Browns played like they ever had a chance with him either. He may never be a long time NFL starter if this is what he truly is.

 

[QuizGuy66]

I really hope no one started this guy with anything on the line*.

*-Besides the Browns

--QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Wow I would love to hear if posters actually watched that game. That had to be the worst QB performance I have seen in ages. He was lost, physically outmatched, clueless, the offense looked like a div. II college, and to top it off he showed bad judgement and poor attitude on the field and on the sideline. I don't think any of the Browns played like they ever had a chance with him either. He may never be a long time NFL starter if this is what he truly is.

I watched the game and expected this out of Manziel. Very pleased as a Bengals fan that they went away from Hoyer. Having said all that - Lindley is worse.

-QG

 

[pantherclub]

Wow I would love to hear if posters actually watched that game. That had to be the worst QB performance I have seen in ages. He was lost, physically outmatched, clueless, the offense looked like a div. II college, and to top it off he showed bad judgement and poor attitude on the field and on the sideline. I don't think any of the Browns played like they ever had a chance with him either. He may never be a long time NFL starter if this is what he truly is.

I watched the first 3 quarters. I dvr'ed this and the panther game and went back and forth. My honest thoughts are Johnny looks really small, has a weak arm, scrambles out of the pocket prematurely and his demeanor on the field is severely lacking. I would bet absolutely anything that the Browns totally blew a 1rst drafting this moron. I dont see how you can overcome all of his deficiencies

 

[massraider]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

 

[amnesiac]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

i'll ask again: how many games should he get?especially if it's more of the same?

 

[massraider]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

i'll ask again: how many games should he get?especially if it's more of the same?

I hear you, and I'm not sure he should get any, if this is close to where he's at. A guy playing like that should have to compete for his job with someone, I don't care where he was drafted.

I have no idea who he should be competing with, but a vet needs to be there in August, and if I was a Browns fan, I'd be looking for a flyer in the draft.

Problem is, he was handed a job, he didn't outpractice Hoyer, Hoyer just lost the job. He needs to win that job in the offseason.

 

[Jerry Curl]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

Its laughable people still are trying to justify his level of suckatude. Maybe it takes you a bit longer to realize it when someone sucks though. So you will learn soon enough what many already know. He isnt good and he will never be good.

 

[Peyton Marino]

I don't even pay the haters no mind to be honest.

Just for this week though, and I hope Moobin will agree with me here, I'm gonna open up the club for amnesiac (and only amnesiac) to join. The invite is only open until 1PM Sunday. Once that game kicks off and Johnny starts owning fools, you can't get in. Ever. Again. So you better get in now bro. I'll be anxiously awaiting your response 'neezy.

i truly appreciate the gesture.i anticipate we will see some flashes from Manziel, but overall i am still not optimistic about his long term prospects.

again, as a Browns fan, i hope i am wrong and Manziel wins the Browns multiple Super Bowls, and i will gladly eat crow.

peace.

OUT

all in all this game was about what i expected for his first start.nowhere to go but up, i suppose.

Solid bump I suppose. I didn't bump the post where you said Johnny wouldn't start his year unless Hoyer got injured, and I won't just because I don't want to go back and find it, but consider this my nod to that.

Manziel had a bad first start. QBs sometimes struggle early on in their career. Let's understand statistics, small sample sizes, and how hard it is to win in the NFL on any given week for anybody, let alone a rookie signal caller making his first start, and let's give him another chance. Hell, let's give him 15 more chances and get the same # of observations we gave to that abomination of a quarterback known as Hoyer.

 

[Apple Jack]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

The whole public showing of celebrating money when all the money he had was his parents was a huge red flag in terms of his intelligence and maturity. A few times...fine. But keeping that schtick going over and over again and then carrying it into the NFL before ever accomplishing anything? Points to an all-world dip####. At the very least somebody who isn't qualified to manage an offense in the NFL. Never mind the talent situation. I don't generally celebrate seeing people fail in such humiliating fashion, but I wish I could have watched that game.

 

[MAC_32]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

i'll ask again: how many games should he get?especially if it's more of the same?

I hear you, and I'm not sure he should get any, if this is close to where he's at. A guy playing like that should have to compete for his job with someone, I don't care where he was drafted.

I have no idea who he should be competing with, but a vet needs to be there in August, and if I was a Browns fan, I'd be looking for a flyer in the draft.

Problem is, he was handed a job, he didn't outpractice Hoyer, Hoyer just lost the job. He needs to win that job in the offseason.

a vet and a day three developmental guy is highly likely imho

 

[Peyton Marino]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

i'll ask again: how many games should he get?especially if it's more of the same?

I hear you, and I'm not sure he should get any

well I'm about done discussing Manziel in here if this is going to be the level of intelligence involved in the discussion. it wasn't real, it wasn't fun, and it sure as hell wasn't intellectually stimulating. best of luck all the same.

 

[massraider]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

Its laughable people still are trying to justify his level of suckatude. Maybe it takes you a bit longer to realize it when someone sucks though. So you will learn soon enough what many already know. He isnt good and he will never be good.

Does it take me longer than one game to realize someone sucks? Yes it does. Guilty as charged.

Justifying his play? No one is doing that. It's dogpile on the rabbit time.

 

[massraider]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

i'll ask again: how many games should he get?especially if it's more of the same?

I hear you, and I'm not sure he should get any

well I'm about done discussing Manziel in here if this is going to be the level of intelligence involved in the discussion. it wasn't real, it wasn't fun, and it sure as hell wasn't intellectually stimulating. best of luck all the same.

Sexual Chocolate!!

:dropsmic:

 

[MAC_32]

Brutal start, but it's definitely only one game. It will be interesting how his offseason goes if he lays two more eggs. Three games is nothing, it's laughable that he would be judged on it, but if the only offseason memory is three bad games, the non-believers will get loud.

i'll ask again: how many games should he get?especially if it's more of the same?

I hear you, and I'm not sure he should get any

well I'm about done discussing Manziel in here if this is going to be the level of intelligence involved in the discussion. it wasn't real, it wasn't fun, and it sure as hell wasn't intellectually stimulating. best of luck all the same.

if you expected a different level of conversation then your expectations were silly, it'll be a tebow caliber discussion until either a year after he flames out or he proves them all wrong

 

[Faust]

Johnny Manziel, Browns provide a loss for the ages:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/10539/johnny-manziel-browns-provide-a-loss-for-the-ages

CLEVELAND -- There are bad losses and there are painful losses

But in Johnny Manziel's first start, the Cleveland Browns put an historic loss on the field, up there with the worst of the many historic Browns losses since the team returned to the field in 1999. It came in a big game, at a time when a much-hyped quarterback was supposed to give a spark as Cleveland made a final playoff push.

All the talk all week was Manziel this and Manziel that. But everyone forgot that the other team has a say, and those with the Browns who felt Manziel would give the Browns a better chance to win have some seriously bad numbers to digest following a 30-0 loss Sunday.

Among them:

The Browns were shut out for the first time since November of 2009.

Manziel becomes the sixth quarterback in the last 20 years to be shut out in his first start, and the first since Rusty Smith of Tennessee in 2010. The others: Dave Ragone of Houston (2003), Henry Burris of Chicago (2002), Spergon Wynn of Cleveland (2000) and Danny Wuerffel of New Orleans (1997).

Manziel is the 21st starting quarterback for the Browns since 1999, and the fifth to be shut out in his first start. The others: Ty Detmer in the first game back in ’99, Bruce Gradkowski, Wynn and Doug Pederson. Pederson and Gradkowski joined the Browns the week before starting because of injuries to the starter.

The offense had more than 100 yards for the day only because the Bengals scored a touchdown with 30 seconds left. The Browns got a final play with 18 seconds left and Manziel threw a slip screen for nine yards.

To that point, the offense had the ball nine times, and had seven three-play possessions. Three of those were for negative yards.

The Browns ran 38 offensive plays, the fewest by any team this season and fewest by the Browns since Week 1 of 1999, when they ran 28 plays against the Steelers in a 43-0 loss.

Manziel’s final numbers speak for themselves: 10-for-18 for 80 yards with no touchdowns and two interceptions (and another called back). His rating: 27.3, which is just above the number of times Bengals defenders gave Manziel his signature money move. It probably looked worse than the numbers show, too, as there were times Manziel was simply overmatched by the speed and strength of the players he faced.

His play was such that coach Mike Pettine admitted he would not fall on the "I have to see the film" bromide.

"Looked like a rookie, played like a rookie," Pettine said.

True that.

But to pin all this on Manziel is not totally fair, because this was as bad a team effort as the Browns have had in a long time. Manziel's contributions were minimal, but so were the rest of the team’s.

The Browns chafed at rookie Jeremy Hill chortling at them after the Browns won the first game in Cincinnati, when Hill said the Browns weren’t that good. Hill ran over, through and around them for 148 yards.

The running game totaled 53 yards and averaged 3.1 per carry, the offensive line did not protect, Manziel did not read the field and ... well ... the Browns lost by 30 in a game the Bengals quarterback barely had to work.

It’s not a new show in Cleveland.

The Browns since 1999 have fed the "next great thing" monster as well as any team in the league. It’s fueled by impatience and the constant change and rebuilding that have whoever is in charge feeling they can find the next "savior."

Pettine fought it off as long as he could, but even he gave in and started Manziel. Based on the game it’s hard to say what Manziel showed in practice to breed belief that he gave the team its best chance to win. It sure did not appear on Sunday.

Perhaps Manziel will be the one to change things. Pettine said nobody should judge him on one game. But he has some ignominious company in the negative marks he set

After the game, Manziel talked of the situation not being overwhelming for him or too difficult, visual evidence to the contrary.

He talked of building something positive for next season.

He talked of learning and wiping it away.

Of the confidence the team had in drafting him.

But as he spoke the ghosts of Browns quarterbacks past floated by (a shadowy Brandon Weeden, a glum Brady Quinn), all chained by expectation and futility.

Meanwhile, the Bengals laughed all the way back to Cincinnati. Because they are the team in first place in the AFC North, while the Browns again are a team wondering what in the heck just hit them.

 

[amnesiac]

I don't even pay the haters no mind to be honest.

Just for this week though, and I hope Moobin will agree with me here, I'm gonna open up the club for amnesiac (and only amnesiac) to join. The invite is only open until 1PM Sunday. Once that game kicks off and Johnny starts owning fools, you can't get in. Ever. Again. So you better get in now bro. I'll be anxiously awaiting your response 'neezy.

i truly appreciate the gesture.i anticipate we will see some flashes from Manziel, but overall i am still not optimistic about his long term prospects.

again, as a Browns fan, i hope i am wrong and Manziel wins the Browns multiple Super Bowls, and i will gladly eat crow.

peace.

OUT

all in all this game was about what i expected for his first start.nowhere to go but up, i suppose.

Solid bump I suppose. I didn't bump the post where you said Johnny wouldn't start his year unless Hoyer got injured, and I won't just because I don't want to go back and find it, but consider this my nod to that. Manziel had a bad first start. QBs sometimes struggle early on in their career. Let's understand statistics, small sample sizes, and how hard it is to win in the NFL on any given week for anybody, let alone a rookie signal caller making his first start, and let's give him another chance. Hell, let's give him 15 more chances and get the same # of observations we gave to that abomination of a quarterback known as Hoyer.

i also said Hoyer would start as long as they were around .500 as long as he didn't #### the bed. which he did.

starting Manziel was necessary at this point.

how anyone can salvage anything from this start is beyond me.

give him 16 games? go right ahead, i'll take a year off from watching the Browns.

 

[Daywalker]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

 

[lod01]

He will get it cranked up next week.

 

[Faust]

Johnny Manziel's NFL debut shocks in all the wrong ways:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/10556/johnny-manziels-nfl-debut-shocks-in-all-the-wrong-ways

 

[Peyton Marino]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

The whole public showing of celebrating money when all the money he had was his parents was a huge red flag in terms of his intelligence and maturity. A few times...fine. But keeping that schtick going over and over again and then carrying it into the NFL before ever accomplishing anything? Points to an all-world dip####. At the very least somebody who isn't qualified to manage an offense in the NFL. Never mind the talent situation. I don't generally celebrate seeing people fail in such humiliating fashion, but I wish I could have watched that game.

You souls old and curmudgeony

 

[MAC_32]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

gonna question the intelligence level of this discussion the come in with garbage like this?

 

[CR69]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

Well to be fair, it is like throwing over trees for him.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

gonna question the intelligence level of this discussion the come in with garbage like this?

good point, let me rephrase.

That's an inaccurate generalization. Textbook availability bias. The kid had some good throws, he had some bad throws. If we want to knock his arm, to my eye it looked like his throws took a while to get to their target. They were right on the money mind you (not high by any means), but they took to long to get there. This is not good. I don't think it's indicative of his true arm strength, though. This is something we can ascertain with a larger sample size.

 

[Smack Tripper]

wrote this in the gordon thread but figure its more appropriate here

ultimate snap judgement, overreaction but.....

Johnny is god awful in ways that are gonna be a challenge to ever get righted and what dawns on me today is, maybe there is a reason Cleveland suffered through Hoyer.

Johnny had absolutely no velocity on the ball today. He had guys open but defenders closed as the damn ball couldn't get there fast enough. Maybe this will improve with timing or relaxing and not holding the ball so tight.

The other issue which will be problematic is his height. Clearly seemed to me like he couldn't see over the line. I know Brees has had great success being shorter but he looks to have two inches on Johnny, who is just a bit beyond Flutie height. That is an issue. New Orleans seemed to have wider splits on the oline to open lanes just to see, maybe Cleveland needs that.

But those two issues are significant.

His instincts, in 5 quarters of football now, are awful 3 times out of 4. The one play he improves once in a while shows you something is great but he sucks for the most part.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I can't repeat this enough. It's Cleveland. The entire organization is a disaster. Nothing this kid does in Cleveland matters. His legend will be built in Dallas and they will secure Romos successor for a song.

The worst Johnny looks in Cleveland the cheaper the boys get him for.

 

[amnesiac]

didn't seem to me like a weak arm, just took him forever to figure out where to throw it, and he was inaccurate on top of it.

 

[Dizzy]

At least with Hoyer they could have lost 30-10. That would have given the Browns fans a boost.

 

[cvnpoka]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

Maybe, but I'd like to see the list of recent rookies who played this poorly in their first start. I wonder how many of them ended up being decent players.

well, john elways first game starting he went 1-8 for 14 yards and a pick. next game was 9-21 for 104. and next game was 18-33 for 193 yards with 1 td and 2 picks.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00/gamelog/1983/

even andrew luck had 3 picks and 1 tds. 309 yards too.

montanas first start was 5-12 for 36 yards.

steve young started his career 72-138 for 935, with 3 tds and 8 ints.

generally, qbs struggle a ton in their first starts.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

Maybe, but I'd like to see the list of recent rookies who played this poorly in their first start. I wonder how many of them ended up being decent players.

well, john elways first game starting he went 1-8 for 14 yards and a pick. next game was 9-21 for 104. and next game was 18-33 for 193 yards with 1 td and 2 picks.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00/gamelog/1983/

even andrew luck had 3 picks and 1 tds. 309 yards too.

montanas first start was 5-12 for 36 yards.

steve young started his career 72-138 for 935, with 3 tds and 8 ints.

generally, qbs struggle a ton in their first starts.

Re-read, thanks.

 

[Buffaloes]

yeah, comparing passing numbers from the early 80s to today's Arena League rules is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

I can't repeat this enough. It's Cleveland. The entire organization is a disaster. Nothing this kid does in Cleveland matters. His legend will be built in Dallas and they will secure Romos successor for a song.

The worst Johnny looks in Cleveland the cheaper the boys get him for.

Ray Farmer could still turn into a hero here if he can somehow duplicate the Trent Richardson trade and extract a #1 pick from Jerry Jones to offload Manziel.

 

[cjv123]

I can't repeat this enough. It's Cleveland. The entire organization is a disaster. Nothing this kid does in Cleveland matters. His legend will be built in Dallas and they will secure Romos successor for a song.

The worst Johnny looks in Cleveland the cheaper the boys get him for.

Ray Farmer could still turn into a hero here if he can somehow duplicate the Trent Richardson trade and extract a #1 pick from Jerry Jones to offload Manziel.

#1 pick? He went in the first round and has shown he was wildly overvalued there. This is Tebow the Sequel.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

He's not as good as Tebow, at least not based on yesterday. Tebow could run and had the size to get past linemen, Manziel got tossed like a rag doll. Tebow actually netted a couple draft picks in trade on the basis of some exciting wins and a playoff run and win.

 

[pantherclub]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

is he wrong?

 

[cjv123]

Apology for the second post:

Whomever made the technical call for Manziel for CLE must be fired. GM's pay scouts to get the basic, "Xs and Os" stuff right.

 

[Sabertooth]

Too funny. Guy is a total putz. All show and no go.