***OFFICIAL*** Minnesota Vikings 2015 Season Thread (1 Viewer)

[Donnybrook]

My pet peeve is blaming the coaches for a bad play call when it is really bad execution by the players. Believe what you want to believe I guess. If you think that the line would have blocked better if it was a roll out then have at it.

 

[mr roboto]

My pet peeve is blaming the coaches for a bad play call when it is really bad execution by the players. Believe what you want to believe I guess. If you think that the line would have blocked better if it was a roll out then have at it.

Wat? I'm just saying Teddy looked good rolling out yesterday. I thought they should have kicked the FG on 3rd down. But I guarantee you that rusher from the LEFT wouldn't have gotten to Teddy if he was rolling to the RIGHT

 

[Maelstrom]

I thought it was a really great game, with a disappointing ending. But I don't blame Teddy (Kalil should have held up longer, and it should have been a rollout or it should have been a quicker developing play). Given the injuries on defense, I think the Vikings played well and showed they can play with anyone in the league. And it was good to see Teddy and the offense step up when the Cardinals stacked the line against AP.

I think we learned a lot about the Vikings in this game, despite the loss. I think they beat NYG and CHI, and setup a division crown game in GB.

 

[Biabreakable]

Re-watch the play. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000598884/Can-t-Miss-Play-Vintage-Freeney-seals-victory-for-Cardinals People can blame the coaches or Teddy but I don't see how Matt Kalil doesn't get 95% of the blame for that play. It called the blindside for a reason. Teddy never sees Freeney coming. Kalil does a face plant in 2.5 seconds after the snap.

Yeah Freeny got ahead of him on the outside rush, Kalil over-reacted to that and then just lost it when Freeny spun inside. Really poor play on his part in a crucial situation. For the most part he has played pretty well though.

The Vikings really need to take some time and focus on clock management, 2 minute offense and red zone offense. Coaches and players need to be better prepared to execute in all of these situations.

 

[Biabreakable]

Captian M needs to walk around wearing a for the lack of tackling on John Brown's TD catch..

It sure looked to me Captain slowed down and barley attempted to touch him.. Seemed he thought John Brown would just run out of bounds so no need to make sure..

Also, wonder if Rhodes hand injury is what cost him an easy pick 6, or he was so shocked to have the ball right there, and the open field he just lost concentration and dropped it?

John Brown is really fast. They ran a crossing route and Munnerlin doesn't lose him until they were near the side line when Brown cuts upfield.

Rhodes doesn't have very good ball skills to begin with, having an injured hand certainly doesn't help.

 

[Biabreakable]

[SIZE=12pt]Zimmer Talks Final Play, Injuries, Teddy's Game[/SIZE]

 

[Maelstrom]

Captian M needs to walk around wearing a for the lack of tackling on John Brown's TD catch..

It sure looked to me Captain slowed down and barley attempted to touch him.. Seemed he thought John Brown would just run out of bounds so no need to make sure..

Also, wonder if Rhodes hand injury is what cost him an easy pick 6, or he was so shocked to have the ball right there, and the open field he just lost concentration and dropped it?

John Brown is really fast. They ran a crossing route and Munnerlin doesn't lose him until they were near the side line when Brown cuts upfield.

Rhodes doesn't have very good ball skills to begin with, having an injured hand certainly doesn't help.

 

[Biabreakable]

Not sure what the confusion is Maelstrom. In 3 seasons Rhodes has one interception.

That does not mean he isn't a good corner, he is an excellent one. He does a very good job of preventing the receiver he is covering from catching the ball. He just isn't that great at catching the ball himself. Rhodes had 18 passes defensed last season and he currently has 8 after 13 games this season, so on pace for 10 passes defensed this year which is how many he had as a rookie in 13 games.

 

[Maelstrom]

Not sure what the confusion is Maelstrom. In 3 seasons Rhodes has one interception.

That does not mean he isn't a good corner, he is an excellent one. He does a very good job of preventing the receiver he is covering from catching the ball. He just isn't that great at catching the ball himself. Rhodes had 18 passes defensed last season and he currently has 8 after 13 games this season, so on pace for 10 passes defensed this year which is how many he had as a rookie in 13 games.

Some of that reduction is due to him having a reputation for being a shutdown corner. Less chances = less passes defensed, less chances for interceptions. Also, the Vikings defense being better overall also makes for less chances.

 

[snogger]

So bucks & falcons losing sure helped

Very interesting two weeks coming up.. Vikes @ home in winable games vs. Bears & Giants.

meanwhile Pack are on the road vs. Raiders, who are not the doormats they once were and @ Arizona...

there is a possibility of the Vikings going to Green Bay in week 17 with the North on the line..

 

[Maelstrom]

So bucks & falcons losing sure helped

Very interesting two weeks coming up.. Vikes @ home in winable games vs. Bears & Giants.

meanwhile Pack are on the road vs. Raiders, who are not the doormats they once were and @ Arizona...

there is a possibility of the Vikings going to Green Bay in week 17 with the North on the line..

If the Vikings win the next 2 (and if they want to prove they are a serious team this season, they need to, IMO) the final game will be for the division crown no matter what the Pack does. I think the Pack beats the Raiders but loses to AZ, but the Vikings can't think that gives them a pass for either of the next 2 games.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Vikings have had a one game at a time mentality all season. Don't see that changing now.

If they can get some of the defensive starters back like Barr and Smith it will help their chances.

I thought Harris played pretty well at safety. Supposedly Sendejo will be back to full health the soonest out of all the injured players. Not sure Harris isn't better than him. It is nice to see a safety play the ball for a change.

 

[Biabreakable]

Vikings Sign DE Justin Trattou, Waive S Shaun Prater

Injuries gave Vikings a live look at two young defensive backs, Waynes and Harris

 

[Biabreakable]

Smith, Joseph Practicing Again; Barr Still Out

 

[Rogi]

Do the Vikes clinch a playoff spot if they win and TB, NYG, and PHI lose this week?

 

[Biabreakable]

Do the Vikes clinch a playoff spot if they win and TB, NYG, and PHI lose this week?

I am not sure. The Vikings play the Bears then the Giants then the Packers.

If they win the game against the Giants I believe that will eliminate the Giants from winning their division.

The Giants, Eagles and Redskins are playing each other over these last 3 weeks so I do not think it is possible for any of those teams to win a wild card spot currently being held by the Vikings and Seahawks who have a 2 game lead on the other possible playoff teams.

Basically TB NYG PHI WAS would need to win all of their final 3 games and the Vikings would need to lose at least two of their final games for any of these teams to take the Vikings wild card spot. All of these teams have one game against the Pathers or the Cardinals in their final three games as well. Likely losses. I don't see any way the Vikings do not make the playoffs unless they fail to win at least one of their final 3 games. If the Vikings win two out of three they are a 10 and 5 and none of these 6 win teams can beat that.

 

[Biabreakable]

Transcript: Coordinators Addressed the Media Thursday

Norv Turner interviews for the first time in awhile.

Q: Why do you think Teddy Bridgewater looked as comfortable as he did on Thursday night?

A: I’m just not as zoned in on one game. I think he’s looked comfortable most of the season. I go back to the Atlanta game, he’s 14-of-21 for 130 yards in the first half, we have a good mix of run, pass. The Raiders game in the first half we drive for touchdowns the first two drives. All of the way back to the Detroit game where he throws for 270 yards when we struggle to run the ball. Every game presents a different situation, I think Teddy played the way he’s played most of the time. Instead of throwing 18 or 24 passes we threw 36 passes, you get more opportunities, you get chances to make more plays. I thought our guys who were involved in it responded and made plays.

Q: Do you think Teddy Bridgewater was getting the ball out quicker against Arizona?

A: Again, every team is different and this team is a very aggressive team. We were able to get some misdirection going, we were able to get some quick passes going. We’ve played a number of teams that play a coverage style that they want us to have to hold the ball so they can take advantage of the rush. Every game just comes up different.

Q: What was the thought process with Adrian Peterson’s increased role in 3rd downs against Arizona?

A: If you guys remember after the Seattle game there were some questions on how much activity he had, how many carries he had so he was probably pretty fresh, we thought we’d take advantage of that situation. He’s capable of doing all of it. We’ve tried to manage it the best we could in terms of making sure he’s fresh throughout the entire game. Obviously it shows up with how he’s been able to carry the football in the 4th-quarter when we’ve had leads or small leads and being able to finish off games. Obviously, this game, the Thursday night game, it was an opportunity for us to make a move and we wanted him in the game.

Q: Is that something you want to do more of going forward?

A: Every game is different. There’s things that we want to do with him, we want him to get his opportunities to affect the game.

Q: Do you think Adrian Peterson being in the game helped the passing game?

A: I don’t think it had anything to do with it in the passing game. I think the first 3rd down, it wasMatt Asiata and he gets a 20-yard completion, if we can get them to bust a coverage every time and get the ball out that quick, it would be awesome. They turned him loose, I think every situation is different. I think that when we fake to him and throw the screen, yeah it helps. It’s just depending on, I would say, the play. I think you all try to make too much out of it. I think it’s about going out and executing, performing and everyone doing their job.

Q: Making too much of what?

A: If [Adrian Peterson] he’s in the game or not in the game, if it affects how the secondary plays or doesn’t play or whatever those things that you ask me about.

Q: Why wasn’t there a play for Teddy Bridgewater to check out of on the final play of the Arizona game?

A: First of all, we’ve got a lot of sideline plays. This is one that’s worked for us last year, it’s worked for us in the past. We never have a sideline play where we don’t have a quick outlet, Adrian [Peterson] was the quick outlet, the way the defended the play, if we had it to do over again we would have thrown the ball over Adrian’s head and kicked the field goal. They defended the play real well. Obviously, we’re getting ready for the Bears. My only thing I’d say, I think everyone will learn from that play.

Q: Was that something where you wanted to just run a play for communication issues?

A: It’s a good play. There was no reason to check out of it.

Q: What do you attribute Kyle Rudolph’s increased catches to?

A: I think there’s two things – I think it’s who we’re playing and the situations that we’re in and number two, would be Teddy is throwing the ball to him when he’s covered more than he was early. Kyle is not a guy that’s going to get great separation, but he’s a big-body presence. He’s thrown the ball where, we had one on the sideline, 3rd down, the defender almost got a hand on the ball, Teddy put it out in front, he’s a big man he went up and got it and ran down the sideline.

Q: How does cold weather impact play calling?

A: The biggest thing that affects play calling is the team that we’re playing. We’ve played in the cold last year in December. I’d go back and look at the play calling we had there and see if there’s something that was different.

Q: In what ways do you see opposing defenses giving more attention to Stefon Diggs?

A: Well, particularly this last game, they put a really good player on him and contained him pretty well.

Q: What’s going on with Charles Johnson, it seems like he’s been phased out of the offense?

A: He’s not been phased out. The same thing I’m talking about, you get in a game and you get in a rhythm and you’re playing and you’re playing fast. It’s the least of your worries at that point, ‘can we get this guy involved, can we not get this involved?’ The thing I get, obviously, is if when we visit, and I haven’t had a chance to visit with you, but if Kyle is getting more passes, someone wants to know why this guy isn’t, if Adrian is getting the runs they want to know why we threw this ball, if we threw for 300 yards, why isn’t Adrian successful? We went all of the way back to Detroit and struggled to run the ball, we broke off one long run, Teddy throws for 270 yards and it’s why couldn’t we run? The guys that are playing are playing, if something happens to someone CJ [Charles Johnson] will be ready.

Q: Are wide receiver screens something you see as a weapon?

A: We’ve used them a lot, it’s just that things that you do a lot, teams tend to concentrate on and it kind of goes in cycles. We got a wide receiver screen, the big screens, we obviously gotten two or three times to Rhett [Ellison], we caught them in the right coverage and we got a screen to Rhett. I think in the game we got a wide receiver screen to [stefon] Diggs. Those are good plays against teams that are blitzing, that are over playing the run, those are things that are nice change-ups.

Q: How much did the offensive line injuries impact your ability to pass the ball downfield early in the season?

A: It has nothing to do with the start of the season or now, it’s just who we are and what we are right now. We’re trying to make it work and be productive offensively. I still go back to when we had a game in Atlanta and we were as productive in terms of moving the ball as you can be. We were productive in moving the ball against Arizona. We played two real good defenses in Green Bay and Seattle and struggled to move the ball.

Q: How much more comfortable is the offensive line now?

A: They’ve been comfortable with one another from the beginning. Obviously, what we have is managing matchups. A team that has one really strong defensive player, you can manage that and you can say, ‘Okay, we’re going to concentrate on him, we’re going to help, we’re going to do this.’ You play a team that has four across, you can’t manage and help on every single guy. That’s why you game plan and that’s why you do different things to try and help those guys.

 

[Rogi]

Article comparing Bridgewater to Ponder.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14388203/the-final-nfl-games-san-diego-st-louis-happen-week-nfl

 

[Biabreakable]

Article comparing Bridgewater to Ponder.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14388203/the-final-nfl-games-san-diego-st-louis-happen-week-nfl

Not a compelling or well thought out comparison by Scheftler

He compares the 2012 Vikings to 2015 Vikings.

In 2012 Peterson ran for over 2000 yards. 85 of Ponders targets were to Percy Harvin and most of those were very high percentage WR screens he caught 72.9% of those targets and would often make something out of nothing. It is hard for teams to defend that and Peterson at the same time.

The only WR on the Vikings to have over 60% completion rate besides Harvin was Jarius Wright who was also used on a lot of bubble screens as well. He had a 61% catch rate on 36 targets.

You look at the 2015 Vikings receivers and all of them are above 60% completion rate except for Mike Wallace. Well here all those numbers are:

2012 Vikings with Ponder

Kyle Rudolph 57%

Percy Harvin 72.9%

Michael Jenkins 55.6%

Jerome Simpson 50%

Adrian Peterson 78.4%

Jarius Wright 61.1%

Toby Gerhart 74.1%

Devin Aromashodu 50%

John Carlson 57.1%

Stephen Burton 45.5%

Rhett Ellison 77.8%

Jerome Felton 75%

Allen Reisner 50%

Matt Asiata 100%

2015 Vikings with Bridgewater

Stefon Diggs 60.3%

Kyle Rudolph 67.2%

Mike Wallace 55%

Jarius Wright 63.4%

Adrian Peterson 84.8%

Matt Asiata 94.7%

Jerick McKinnon 66.7%

Rhett Ellison 58.8%

Adam Thielen 62.5%

MyCole Pruitt 66.7%

Charles Johnson 69.2%

Zach Line 71.4%

Cordarrelle Patterson 100%

So there is a lot that goes into that 3% completion percentage difference.

Ponder had 483 passing attempts over 16 games which is 30.19 attempts per game. Bridgewater has 383 attempts over 13 games which is 29.46 attempts per game. So Ponder had .73 more attempts per game.which is about 12 more than Teddy is on pace for. Yet Bridgewater has significantly more yards passing per game than Ponder had, despite fewer attempts. Although the total attempts is very close, again the completion percentage makes a big difference.

Yards per attempt for Bridgewater this season is 7.1 which is decent. Ponder in 2012 had 6.1 yards per attempt which is below average. For example in 2015 only Nick Foles has this bad of yards per attempt.

In 2012 Ponder was sacked 32 times in 16 games 2 sacks per game . In 2015 Bridgewater has been sacked 37 times in 13 games 2.85 per game.

Ponder had a healthy John Sullivan and Phil Loadholdt in 2012 and rookie Matt Kalil played his best season as a rookie. Kalil has played better this season but I still don't see the speed and tenacity from him to match how he played at times as a rookie.

While I agree it is too early to know how Bridgewaters career will pan out there are a lot more promising signs from Bridgewater than there ever were with Ponder. All those bubble screens that Harvin turned into good plays through a force of will and tremendous talent he had still dried up as the season went on. They were not going to be able to keep going to that well sustainably season after season IF Harvin had managed to stay healthy. Ponder didn't really have any other tricks or plays aside from the bootleg that worked for him. Night and Day in that regard as Teddy reads the defense and more often than not finds the good match ups and can deliver the ball confidently and accurately. With Ponder when he actually completed a pass he seemed somewhat surprised. Ponder was always afraid to push the ball down field at all.

 

[Biabreakable]

Chicago Bears at Minnesota Vikings: Final Injury Reports for Both Teams

 

[snogger]

Nice to see them play the same way vs. the Bears as they did Vs. The Cards.. Played hard from start to finish

And Teddy the last two week has been playing great.. 556 yards 6 TD's

Giants on Sunday night is up next

 

[sports_fan]

Let's take a minute to look at the Vikes defense. Missing their 3 best players: Barr, Smith and Joseph. A 37 year old CB led the team in tackles with 8. They had rookies playing on all 3 levels of the defense. DE Hunter, LB Kendricks, CB Waynes and S Harris (undrafted). They had 5 sacks, an interception, held the Bears to under 100 yards rushing and Cutler to 6.2 yards per pass attempt.

Zimmer is amazing.

 

[Rogi]

Am I missing something with the playoff picture? Shouldn't the Vikes be in it now?

 

[Biabreakable]

Am I missing something with the playoff picture? Shouldn't the Vikes be in it now?

I don't quite understand why they are not considered officially in yet. The Falcons for example if they win their final two games and the Vikings lose the final two games would be tied and the Vikings have the tie breaker. The only other NFC team that could tie the VIkings win record is the Redskins who are at 7-7 and will likely win their division.

The Eagles and Washington play next week and the Vikings host the Giants. So that division may be settled next week based on the outcome of these games. As long as the Vikings beat the Giants they will lock up a playoff spot and eliminate the Giants from winning their division. It is also possible for the Vikings to lose the game to the Giants and still lock up the wild card if the Eagles beat the Redskins. Because then all of the NFC East teams would be 7-8 with one game left to go and not able to top the Vikings 9 wins.

It is pretty much a technicality at this point but hopefully the Vikings take care of business with the Giants next week which I think they are very capable of doing.

The main question remaining is if the Vikings will win the division and how many times they have to beat Green Bay.

 

[Ladsud]

Am I missing something with the playoff picture? Shouldn't the Vikes be in it now?

I just looked at that, if you figure out why they havent clinched yet please let me know. If Falcons win out and Vikings lose out both would be 6-6 in conference play and Vikings have first tie breaker.

 

[Biabreakable]

Am I missing something with the playoff picture? Shouldn't the Vikes be in it now?

I just looked at that, if you figure out why they havent clinched yet please let me know. If Falcons win out and Vikings lose out both would be 6-6 in conference play and Vikings have first tie breaker.

Yeah I think the Vikings have clenched a playoff spot. It is just a question of if Green Bay or the Vikings are the second wild card team. Division is still not decided yet.

Green Bay plays Arizona next week then the Vikings.

Washington does have a 6-4 conference record which is the same as the Vikings. So if they did win the final two while the Vikings lost the final two they could win the conference record tie breaker. However if this happens they win their division and so will not be taking the wild card spot which would still go to the Vikings because of having more wins and the tie breaker against Atlanta head to head, even if Atlanta matches the Vikings 6 conference wins by beating Carolina and the Saints in their last two weeks.

 

[Rogi]

Found the answer to my question regarding the playoff scenario.

http://m.startribune.com/vikings-playoff-scenarios-win-and-in-or/363096471/?section=sports%2Fvikings

 

[snogger]

Just saw this little tidbit on nfl.com

Teddy Bridgewater had more TDs (4) than incompletions (3).

 

[Maelstrom]

Am I missing something with the playoff picture? Shouldn't the Vikes be in it now?

I just looked at that, if you figure out why they havent clinched yet please let me know. If Falcons win out and Vikings lose out both would be 6-6 in conference play and Vikings have first tie breaker.

Haven't clinched yet because if the Vikings lose out, Seattle loses out and Atl wins out, they would all be tied. Since it's 3 teams, the head-to-head tiebreakers are skipped, and it comes down to strength of schedule against common opponents, which Atl actually wins. Then it's Sea v. Min for the final spot, and Sea wins that via head-to-head.

Vikings win 1 more, Seattle wins 1 more or Atl loses 1 and the Vikings clinch.

 

[Biabreakable]

It would surely help to get some of the defensive stars back playing. Joseph I think was close to playing last week. Harrison tried to practice Friday but wasn't ready yet. I am not sure what the time table on Barr is. Greenway got exposed several times by Forte and he just isn't fast enough to do what his mind is telling him to anymore. I am glad we have him, he still makes plays at times, but Barr can take some of those things away when he is playing. Harrison Smith too.

The Vikings need to beat the Giants and that is all there is to this. Very unlikely that Seattle will drop their next two games anyways.

 

[Beo]

Just saw this little tidbit on nfl.com

Teddy Bridgewater had more TDs (4) than incompletions (3).

I wonder how rare this is with a QB attempting 20 passes or more?

 

[Biabreakable]

Just saw this little tidbit on nfl.com

Teddy Bridgewater had more TDs (4) than incompletions (3).

I wonder how rare this is with a QB attempting 20 passes or more?

It is exceptionally rare. For one thing completing 85% of the pass attempts does not happen often.

I looked at all of Tom Bradys games and there are 7 times he has had 80% or better completion percentage. 6 of his seasons he does not have 80% or more completion percentage in any game.

3 of those times he did throw for more TD than incomplete passes. Once in 2007 and twice in 2009 all with Randy Moss + Welker = high completion % + many TD

2007

21 25 84% 354 6 TD

2009

29 34 85% 380 6 TD

23 26 88% 267 4 TD

Given that Tom Brady has only done it 3 times in his exceptional career and when he did do it was with Moss and Welker in their prime. That is a pretty rare occurrence.

When you consider how much pressure Bridgewater has been under this season 66.3% is pretty exceptional because pressure causes that rate to go down significantly for all QB.

 

[mr roboto]

Soooooooo, no OBJ next week!

 

[Biabreakable]

Soooooooo, no OBJ next week!

Can't complain about this turn of events if it does end up meaning he wont play against the Vikings. That is a lucky break.

At the same time I was looking forward to seeing Xavier Rhodes match up on him. Oh well.

 

[Maelstrom]

It would surely help to get some of the defensive stars back playing. Joseph I think was close to playing last week. Harrison tried to practice Friday but wasn't ready yet. I am not sure what the time table on Barr is. Greenway got exposed several times by Forte and he just isn't fast enough to do what his mind is telling him to anymore. I am glad we have him, he still makes plays at times, but Barr can take some of those things away when he is playing. Harrison Smith too.

The Vikings need to beat the Giants and that is all there is to this. Very unlikely that Seattle will drop their next two games anyways.

I saw a report that all 3 are likely to play, but it was listed as a rumor - I believe it was based on a tweet. ... found it: https://twitter.com/APkrawczynski/status/678948703709696004

@APkrawczynski2015-12-21 14:42 UTC

Sounds like the #Vikings expect Harrison, Barr and Joseph to be ready this week.

 

[Biabreakable]

Zimmer: Our Goal Is To Win The Division

@ the 8:30 mark is where Zimmers says he thinks Barr Smith and Joseph will be ready to play next week. I am pretty sure this is the source of the information.

Unfortunately Zimmer lies about injuries. He already explained to the press that any question about injuries he is going to answer with his most optimistic view about it.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

It's too bad that inactives are due 90 minutes before kickoff with the Packers playing the late game...if they lose, I wouldn't risk playing any of these three to have them fully healthy for the Packer game.

 

[snellman]

It's too bad that inactives are due 90 minutes before kickoff with the Packers playing the late game...if they lose, I wouldn't risk playing any of these three to have them fully healthy for the Packer game.

If Beckham is out, I can honestly see them winning this game without those 3 anyway.

 

[Yenrub]

It's too bad that inactives are due 90 minutes before kickoff with the Packers playing the late game...if they lose, I wouldn't risk playing any of these three to have them fully healthy for the Packer game.

How effective against the run are the Vikings without those 3 (Joseph, Barr and Harrison)?

Not sure if I want to use them this week as my DST

 

[Biabreakable]

It's too bad that inactives are due 90 minutes before kickoff with the Packers playing the late game...if they lose, I wouldn't risk playing any of these three to have them fully healthy for the Packer game.

How effective against the run are the Vikings without those 3 (Joseph, Barr and Harrison)?

Not sure if I want to use them this week as my DST

1st of all based on my observations of the defense, most play calls are designed to stop the passing game moreso than the run. This is a calculated risk on Zimmers part. He does not seem to mind allowing the opposing offense to run the ball a bit and work the clock. The defensive is especially weak against outside running plays in part because of the double A gap looks leaving defenders out of position to contain the edge. See SF and Denver games for examples.

Linval Joseph as you should be familiar with is very good against the run. He demands double teams and he can defeat them. I think Joseph was the closest of the three to starting last week. I consider him the most likely of the three to play this week. He is a huge bonus to the Vikings run defense.

Barr and Smith are great all around players who help against the run and pass. Having Barr in the nickle instead of Greenway is a huge upgrade in speed and leads to better coverage of RB and TE as does Smith if he draws those assignments.

As far as starting the Vikings defense it depends on your scoring system.

How effective do you think the Giants offense will be without Beckham against this defense? I do think the Vikings should be able to limit the Giants from scoring. Possibly limiting them to under 20 points as they have done in most of their games this season.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

INSANE that Linval and Harrison didn't make the Pro Bowl!!

 

[Biabreakable]

INSANE that Linval and Harrison didn't make the Pro Bowl!!

Injuries contribute to that. You can't prove your worth if you are not playing.

I remember Vikings teams that were littered with pro bowlers but overall were not as good as you might think from the accolades. Not getting this recognition keeps players hungry to do more and prove themselves. I would prefer the players to have this edge than to be resting on pretty meaningless accolades such as the pro bowl.

 

[snellman]

INSANE that Linval and Harrison didn't make the Pro Bowl!!

Injuries contribute to that. You can't prove your worth if you are not playing.

I remember Vikings teams that were littered with pro bowlers but overall were not as good as you might think from the accolades. Not getting this recognition keeps players hungry to do more and prove themselves. I would prefer the players to have this edge than to be resting on pretty meaningless accolades such as the pro bowl.

and you can pretty much guarantee that Zimmer will use this as extra motivation.

 

[Donnybrook]

IMO Vikings should have fielded 4 pro-bowlers: Barr, Smith, Joseph and Sherals

 

[Rogi]

I think the Pro Bowl becomes less relevant each year. I'm sure some of the players appreciate the recognition but as a fan I just don't care about it anymore.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

INSANE that Linval and Harrison didn't make the Pro Bowl!!

Injuries contribute to that. You can't prove your worth if you are not playing.

I remember Vikings teams that were littered with pro bowlers but overall were not as good as you might think from the accolades. Not getting this recognition keeps players hungry to do more and prove themselves. I would prefer the players to have this edge than to be resting on pretty meaningless accolades such as the pro bowl.

But when you are a defensive player and then get shredded when you are out, it kind of proves it for you.

I think it is insane, but I am honestly not surprised. I'm sure Michael Irvin hasn't heard of them anyway so he wouldn't know who to draft if they were on the card.

Clay Matthews is a great rush end but he is not a good MLB - need name recognition to make the team.

 

[BigJim®]

It's not all that surprising that the Vikes only had 1 pro-bowler. I think it is a pretty difficult argument that any of the names I see being mentioned as snubs were deserving of being recognized as best in the NFL. Keep in mind, that's not saying that we don't have young promising talent who have generally played well as a unit. Barr should not even be a blip on a radar IMHO considering he is in his 2nd season, has been limited by injuries, and has middle of the road stats at his position. Again, that's not saying he isn't a budding potential pro-bowler. Harrison Smith is probably the one I would consider, but I'm not sure I could make a strong argument to exclude any of the guys who did make it. Even Woodson, who you might assume is there based on name recognition, has more tackles than Smith and outnumbers Smith in interceptions 5 to 1 and fumble recoveries 4-0. Smith is a solid safety, but nothing so dazzling statistically to be realistically in the conversation.

 

[Maelstrom]

Vikings defense is a great example of how the whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Lindval, Smith, Barr are all very good, and maybe they should be in the Pro-Bowl, but Zimmer's defense isn't about making individuals stand out.

 

[Yenrub]

It's too bad that inactives are due 90 minutes before kickoff with the Packers playing the late game...if they lose, I wouldn't risk playing any of these three to have them fully healthy for the Packer game.

How effective against the run are the Vikings without those 3 (Joseph, Barr and Harrison)?

Not sure if I want to use them this week as my DST

1st of all based on my observations of the defense, most play calls are designed to stop the passing game moreso than the run. This is a calculated risk on Zimmers part. He does not seem to mind allowing the opposing offense to run the ball a bit and work the clock. The defensive is especially weak against outside running plays in part because of the double A gap looks leaving defenders out of position to contain the edge. See SF and Denver games for examples.

Linval Joseph as you should be familiar with is very good against the run. He demands double teams and he can defeat them. I think Joseph was the closest of the three to starting last week. I consider him the most likely of the three to play this week. He is a huge bonus to the Vikings run defense.

Barr and Smith are great all around players who help against the run and pass. Having Barr in the nickle instead of Greenway is a huge upgrade in speed and leads to better coverage of RB and TE as does Smith if he draws those assignments.

As far as starting the Vikings defense it depends on your scoring system.

How effective do you think the Giants offense will be without Beckham against this defense? I do think the Vikings should be able to limit the Giants from scoring. Possibly limiting them to under 20 points as they have done in most of their games this season.

For fantasy purposes I’m concerned about the Vikings being able to stop the run as my league has unique defensive scoring. (I own the Vikings and Lions defenses)

-.05 per rushing yard and -.02 per passing yard

The last 2 games the Giants have been pretty good/committed to running the ball. I’m guessing that with Beckham out they will try to do more of it. Of course with Beckham out the Vikings can commit more to the run.

I don’t think the Giants will score over 20 points but if Joseph isn’t in there I think/fear that they will be able to run the ball fairly well against the Vikings.

 

[Biabreakable]

That does add a different wrinkle to your defensive scoring.

The Vikings defense gives up 112.9 yards per game.on average. Some of the bigger chunks have been given up to QBs like Kaep and Wilson. The SF game throws the rushing defensive stats out of wack a bit as they gained 230 rushing yards week 1 against the Vikings. If you remove that game the Vikings have allowed 103.9 rushing yards per game which is average instead of slightly below average.

The RB who have had good games against the Vikings are Hyde, Lacy and Rawls. Against the Packers and Seahawks the defense was much more focused on stopping the pass than the run. The 49ers game was really uncharacteristic of this defense and what they are capable of.

Eli is not a mobile QB so the Vikings can design their pass rush with less concern of him breaking the pocket for a big play running the ball.

Detroit has a similar run defense to Minnesota and they play against the 49ers who I think are a worse team than the Giants, but without Beckham perhaps they are close. I dunno but I think Detroit might be the better match up.

If it is announced that Joseph will play then I consider it an upgrade to the Vikings run defense and perhaps enough to sway me to start them over Detroit who I think has a better match up against sf.