The NFL is conducting an investigation of Peyton Manning, HGH delivery (3 Viewers)

[sho nuff]

Someone needs to start a GoFundMe.com account to raise money for devouredbychaos. The poor guy has brain damage from the blunt force trauma he experienced in the AFC Championship game. First he tried saying it's better to lose in a championship game than in a Super Bowl. Now he thinks a team might lose a draft pick because a player may or may not have used HGH to recover from a neck surgery when he wasn't even on that team yet. Please give till it hurts.

You're absolutely delusional if you don't think losing an NFL record 6 Super Bowls is worse than losing an AFC Championship game. I'm sure Manning has used HGH multiple times over the years, it wouldn't be surprising.

Packers losing last year to Seattle sucked worse than losing to Elway in the Super Bowl.

This...better to lose in the AFC championship thing is stupid

 

[SacramentoBob]

Bump Finley.

 

[JamesTheScot]

How does Manning prove he didn't take HGH? There's plenty of reason to assume that more likey than not, he did.

I don't think there is plenty to assume more than likely he took HGH. I think he more than likely did not.

That's pretty naive. The timing of the alleged hgh use perfectly coincides with his recovering from injury and going on to an historically prolific record setting season. Just a coincidence?

It does? The allegation is that he took it in 2011. His record-setting season was in 2013. That's a pretty long latency period.

Also, how exactly does HGH help someone have a record-setting season? I understand how steroids help Barry Bonds hit more HRs, or Roger Clemens get more strikeouts. But how would HGH help you throw more TDs?

For that matter, does HGH make you stronger? My guess is that if Peyton did take it -- and while I wouldn't be shocked if he did, I'd lean toward no -- it was to help recover from injury, not boost his performance. If he broke the rules, he should be suspended, but it's a pretty big leap to say that would somehow taint a record he set two years after the fact.

if you check the other Manning hgh thread (which is why it's laughable that this Pats fan decided to start a new one), I've explained in depth how taking HGH would do nothing to improve his performance. Other than possibly getting him back on the field sooner.

While there are studies that seem to indicate that HGH's benefits are largely over-stated by the pro-HGH crowd, there is one study out of Canada(?) that did find increases in speed by athletes who took HGH. But those athletes also didn't show gains in strength. And one criticism of that study was that the doses were lower than what is commonly taken by users of HGH who are seeking performance gains.

Could HGH benefit explosiveness but not raw maximum strength? Could it make you faster in a sprint but not increase your squat numbers? That study would seem to indicate it could. Could it be that HGH assists in the development of quick twitch muscle fiber?

But putting all that aside, same as with deflategate, whether something actually helps becomes secondary when it is illegal and someone insists on doing it anyway. Because if they know it's illegal and they still do it, it's pretty apparent that they believe it helps and have no qualms about cheating.

Is it possible that Manning never took it at a time when testing wasn't much of a threat? Sure.

Is it possible that he took HGH hoping to gain an advantage? Sure.

Is it possible he took it not to gain an advantage on the field, but just to heal so he could get back on the field? Sure.

But he's on the record saying he never took it. So if they do find evidence that he did, are we going to believe him if he then confesses (a' la Lance Armstrong) but tries to excuse it as him taking something we all would get if we get hurt and want to heal, but he can't because the NFL stupidly has it on the ban list of PED's and that actually hinders his opportunity to heal back to his "normal"? Or are we going to wonder if he thought it might enhance his performance and was trying to cheat? If he's caught in the first lie, will he have any credibility when people ask him why?

 

[[icon]]

I hope they don't find anything that taints his legacy :(

 

[Pots]

I hope they don't find anything that taints his legacy :(

I doubt it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/peyton-manning-hgh-scandal-intern-why-he-lied-2015-12

 

[devouredbychaos]

I hope they don't find anything that taints his legacy :(

I doubt it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/peyton-manning-hgh-scandal-intern-why-he-lied-2015-12

Because Mort is such a credible source

 

[JuniorNB]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by devouredbychaos. View it anyway?

I'm sure you're not alone. Personally, the comedic value of his anger is worth sifting through his nonsense.

 

[JIslander]

Funny. I didn't see this story getting much traction from the Boston strong

 

[Jed]

This is actually big news. Nothing will probably come of it as Manning is likely to retire and the NFLPA already has their landmark labor case with Brady. But they are supposedly actually investigating this and the standard of more probably than not presumably applies. Anyone holding out hope that manning might play one more year somewhere - Houston anyone? - may have had their hopes dashed.

Wow, another Pats fan calling it "big news".

 

[JuniorNB]

This is actually big news. Nothing will probably come of it as Manning is likely to retire and the NFLPA already has their landmark labor case with Brady. But they are supposedly actually investigating this and the standard of more probably than not presumably applies. Anyone holding out hope that manning might play one more year somewhere - Houston anyone? - may have had their hopes dashed.

Wow, another Pats fan calling it "big news".

LOL. Such a sad fan base.

 

[satch]

This is actually big news. Nothing will probably come of it as Manning is likely to retire and the NFLPA already has their landmark labor case with Brady. But they are supposedly actually investigating this and the standard of more probably than not presumably applies. Anyone holding out hope that manning might play one more year somewhere - Houston anyone? - may have had their hopes dashed.

Wow, another Pats fan calling it "big news".

LOL. Such a sad fan base.

Right? As if one of the greatest QBs in NFL history being investigated for PED use leading up to the Super Bowl is "big news". Come on Pats fans, you're better than this.

 

[Steelers4Life]

There's a reason why Peyton is so respected. He's earned it by being everything Brady hasn't been.

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

Brady is respected for being one of the greatest QBs to ever play. The debates about talent level and the defenses and coaching he played with compared to Manning have been beaten to death, but Brady will never be on the same level of respect outside of Patriots fans because of the way he did it.

Now you can continue with your bull#### and continue your half hearted attempt to justify everything the Patriots have done and been accused of, but at some point you just need to get over it.

 

[Workhorse]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

 

[JIslander]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

 

[Workhorse]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

Really? That's exactly what he implied. Why bring up all of that stuff about his corporate endorsements and how he "comes across" in order to give Manning the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he used HGH? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

 

[satch]

There's a reason why Peyton is so respected. He's earned it by being everything Brady hasn't been.

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

Brady is respected for being one of the greatest QBs to ever play. The debates about talent level and the defenses and coaching he played with compared to Manning have been beaten to death, but Brady will never be on the same level of respect outside of Patriots fans because of the way he did it.

Now you can continue with your bull#### and continue your half hearted attempt to justify everything the Patriots have done and been accused of, but at some point you just need to get over it.

To summarize:1. Pedton Manning deserves a pass for cheating because he's likeable and funny.

2. Manning's PED use pales in comparison to what Brady was accused of, even though Goodell himself justified Brady's 4 game suspension by equating it to PED use.

 

[JIslander]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

Really? That's exactly what he implied. Why bring up all of that stuff about his corporate endorsements and how he "comes across" in order to give Manning the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he used HGH? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I disagree.

 

[georg013]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

 

[JuniorNB]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I have two take-aways from this so far.

1. Some Patriot fans (Not all, or even a majority, but some) will never get over their butt hurt that the accurate perception outside of their fan base is that they will cheat for an advantage. They keep the issue front and center when the try to defend their team doing far more harm than good as it concerns their team's legacy. I believe they do so to the ongoing dismay of fellow fans who would just prefer the issue fade away.

2. Manning may or may not have done something. The investigation is ongoing. Though the initial source of information is shaky there is some reason to believe that HGH was shipped to the Manning household during a time period where one could postulate he would have had some reason to be using it. Explanation is pending. There may be privacy issues involved.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

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[satch]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass. Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

 

[JuniorNB]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

 

[georg013]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass. Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

Broncos in. Patriots out. Thats all that matters now. Tune in bud. Should be a great game.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

Very good posting.

The only difference is that the media does not seems as driven to get him as they have with others.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

The credibility of the source and the amount of confirmation. The latter is subject to change.

 

[JuniorNB]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

Because one MAY have taken HGH to aid his healing from an injury. The other took steroids AND HGH in an effort to totally change his body and become a player that he wasn't before. Not even a sane argument

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Curious as to what the NFL would need to warrant taking Denver's #1 pick and suspending Manning 4 games?

To penalize Denver they would need to see some involvement by the organization like an employee with the nick name "the Growther" texting with another employee how much of a ******* Peyton is about getting his HGH deliveries.

For Manning, the penalty should be levied against him if these allegation have merit. Of course he's unlikely to play anymore anyway so while it would stain his legacy somewhat, it's not likely to matter much.

 

[satch]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

You think I care about this waaaaay more than I really do. Honestly, I don't care much at all about Manning's PED use. It's far more interesting and amusing to watch you guys squirm and make excuses for him.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

The credibility of the source and the amount of confirmation. The latter is subject to change.

The amount of confirmation is subject to change. Obviously Im operating as if the reports are true. I thought that was understood

 

[JuniorNB]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

You think I care about this waaaaay more than I really do. Honestly, I don't care much at all about Manning's PED use. It's far more interesting and amusing to watch you guys squirm and make excuses for him.

LOLOL Saying his legacy is 'forever tainted' if it's found that he took HGH to recover from a major neck injury? Yeah, I'd say you care about this way too much.

For what it's worth, despite know that Brady cheated by having The Deflator make the balls illegal, I don't think it tarnishes his legacy as a top 3 quarterback in the history of the game. Nor would this tarnish Peyton's spot as a top 5 all-timer. They are two of the best ever. No one denied that about Brady just because he took some shortcuts. You Pats fans should all seek counseling.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

Because one MAY have taken HGH to aid his healing from an injury. The other took steroids AND HGH in an effort to totally change his body and become a player that he wasn't before. Not even a sane argument

You're looking at it after the fact for Bonds but not with Manning. If HGH was illegally delivered to his home he too changed his body and prolonged his playing career through the use of illegal drugs.

Also, Bonds by many accounts was considered a great player prior to his PED use...just like Manning.

 

[Steelers4Life]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

Really? That's exactly what he implied. Why bring up all of that stuff about his corporate endorsements and how he "comes across" in order to give Manning the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he used HGH? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I disagree.

Yep, it has everything to do with it. I don't profess to know either of them personally, only how they appear to the public. And if Peyton is an ### hole, he puts on one helluva good show to prove he's not.

Peyton Manning is likeable in ways and for reasons that Tom Brady isn't and never has been. I don't care what they're like behind closed doors, all we see is what they are in public. And that public perception and history is going to give Manning the benefit of the doubt and cast doubt on Brady.

Cam Newton, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers... hell even RGIII when he was coming up. Any time a QB makes it in the NFL, he's featured in advetisements and commercials. There's a reason Brady never has been. Here's the supposed face of the NFL, a good looking guy married to a super model with multiple super bowl championships, and he's never been especially likeable. The stigma of Spygate and to a lesser extent Deflategate hang over him, as do all of the other allegations made about how the Patriots do things, but even before then, he's just not that guy that people are going to trust or believe.

Manning may have taken HGH. Maybe he didn't. Who knows. But he'll get the benefit of the doubt from most that Brady and the Patriots wished they had but didn't deserve after Spygate.

 

[dansav]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

You think I care about this waaaaay more than I really do. Honestly, I don't care much at all about Manning's PED use. It's far more interesting and amusing to watch you guys squirm and make excuses for him.

LOLOL Saying his legacy is 'forever tainted' if it's found that he took HGH to recover from a major neck injury? Yeah, I'd say you care about this way too much.For what it's worth, despite know that Brady cheated by having The Deflator make the balls illegal, I don't think it tarnishes his legacy as a top 3 quarterback in the history of the game. Nor would this tarnish Peyton's spot as a top 5 all-timer. They are two of the best ever. No one denied that about Brady just because he took some shortcuts. You Pats fans should all seek counseling.

Peyton had some unbelievable seasons, but the guy simply doesnt have the knack to get it done in the playoffs (9 one and dones). The year of his lone Super Bowl ring, he threw more than DOUBLE interceptions to touchdowns. He was very fortunate that the Colt's special teams and defense carried him that postseason.

As for the list, Brady is hands down the #GOAT. Statistically, he absolutely crushes Montana, both in the regular season and postseason. Montana also had a top 5 overall defense in every single Super Bowl he played in. Along with a guy named Jerry Rice to throw to. Coupled with the fact that there wasn't a salary cap, Montana had the same dominant defense every single season. In Brady's 6 Super Bowl appearances, spanning 14 seasons, he has had one top 5 overall defense. Coupled with the fact that he has taken drastically different rosters to the Super Bowl time and time again due to the salary cap, it isn't even close IMO.

 

[JuniorNB]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

Because one MAY have taken HGH to aid his healing from an injury. The other took steroids AND HGH in an effort to totally change his body and become a player that he wasn't before. Not even a sane argument

You're looking at it after the fact for Bonds but not with Manning. If HGH was illegally delivered to his home he too changed his body and prolonged his playing career through the use of illegal drugs.

Also, Bonds by many accounts was considered a great player prior to his PED use...just like Manning.

You have no understanding of HGH ands what it does. Or you wouldn't even be comparing the two. If you want to use a baseball example, use Andy Petite.

And yes, Bonds went from a speedy 30/30 guy with a great glove to a humongous, fat headed power hitter jacking 50-70 home runs per year.

 

[JuniorNB]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

You think I care about this waaaaay more than I really do. Honestly, I don't care much at all about Manning's PED use. It's far more interesting and amusing to watch you guys squirm and make excuses for him.

LOLOL Saying his legacy is 'forever tainted' if it's found that he took HGH to recover from a major neck injury? Yeah, I'd say you care about this way too much.For what it's worth, despite know that Brady cheated by having The Deflator make the balls illegal, I don't think it tarnishes his legacy as a top 3 quarterback in the history of the game. Nor would this tarnish Peyton's spot as a top 5 all-timer. They are two of the best ever. No one denied that about Brady just because he took some shortcuts. You Pats fans should all seek counseling.

Peyton had some unbelievable seasons, but the guy simply doesnt have the knack to get it done in the playoffs (9 one and dones). The year of his lone Super Bowl ring, he threw more than DOUBLE interceptions to touchdowns. He was very fortunate that the Colt's special teams and defense carried him that postseason.

As for the list, Brady is hands down the #GOAT. Statistically, he absolutely crushes Montana, both in the regular season and postseason. Montana also had a top 5 overall defense in every single Super Bowl he played in. Along with a guy named Jerry Rice to throw to. Coupled with the fact that there wasn't a salary cap, Montana had the same dominant defense every single season. In Brady's 6 Super Bowl appearances, spanning 14 seasons, he has had one top 5 overall defense. Coupled with the fact that he has taken drastically different rosters to the Super Bowl time and time again due to the salary cap, it isn't even close IMO.

Well, Peyton sure had the knack this year. And has a winning playoff record against Brady.

And I said Brady was top 3. Even a blind homer like yourself can understand that there is a degree of subjectivity to it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Montana also had a top 5 overall defense in every single Super Bowl he played in. Along with a guy named Jerry Rice to throw to.

in every one of them? That's weird since Rice was still in college while Montana earned his first ring.

 

[dansav]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

You think I care about this waaaaay more than I really do. Honestly, I don't care much at all about Manning's PED use. It's far more interesting and amusing to watch you guys squirm and make excuses for him.

LOLOL Saying his legacy is 'forever tainted' if it's found that he took HGH to recover from a major neck injury? Yeah, I'd say you care about this way too much.For what it's worth, despite know that Brady cheated by having The Deflator make the balls illegal, I don't think it tarnishes his legacy as a top 3 quarterback in the history of the game. Nor would this tarnish Peyton's spot as a top 5 all-timer. They are two of the best ever. No one denied that about Brady just because he took some shortcuts. You Pats fans should all seek counseling.

Peyton had some unbelievable seasons, but the guy simply doesnt have the knack to get it done in the playoffs (9 one and dones). The year of his lone Super Bowl ring, he threw more than DOUBLE interceptions to touchdowns. He was very fortunate that the Colt's special teams and defense carried him that postseason.

As for the list, Brady is hands down the #GOAT. Statistically, he absolutely crushes Montana, both in the regular season and postseason. Montana also had a top 5 overall defense in every single Super Bowl he played in. Along with a guy named Jerry Rice to throw to. Coupled with the fact that there wasn't a salary cap, Montana had the same dominant defense every single season. In Brady's 6 Super Bowl appearances, spanning 14 seasons, he has had one top 5 overall defense. Coupled with the fact that he has taken drastically different rosters to the Super Bowl time and time again due to the salary cap, it isn't even close IMO.

Well, Peyton sure had the knack this year. And has a winning playoff record against Brady.And I said Brady was top 3. Even a blind homer like yourself can understand that there is a degree of subjectivity to it.

Manning does have a knack this year. You and I both know the Panthers will win SB 50.

What would be real interesting is if Manning gets yanked for Os and he makes a comeback to win? Could that happen and would Manning still get credit for the ring if he was on the bench watching...

 

[JuniorNB]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

ROFL Oh, you want this sooooo bad.

You think I care about this waaaaay more than I really do. Honestly, I don't care much at all about Manning's PED use. It's far more interesting and amusing to watch you guys squirm and make excuses for him.

LOLOL Saying his legacy is 'forever tainted' if it's found that he took HGH to recover from a major neck injury? Yeah, I'd say you care about this way too much.For what it's worth, despite know that Brady cheated by having The Deflator make the balls illegal, I don't think it tarnishes his legacy as a top 3 quarterback in the history of the game. Nor would this tarnish Peyton's spot as a top 5 all-timer. They are two of the best ever. No one denied that about Brady just because he took some shortcuts. You Pats fans should all seek counseling.

Peyton had some unbelievable seasons, but the guy simply doesnt have the knack to get it done in the playoffs (9 one and dones). The year of his lone Super Bowl ring, he threw more than DOUBLE interceptions to touchdowns. He was very fortunate that the Colt's special teams and defense carried him that postseason.

As for the list, Brady is hands down the #GOAT. Statistically, he absolutely crushes Montana, both in the regular season and postseason. Montana also had a top 5 overall defense in every single Super Bowl he played in. Along with a guy named Jerry Rice to throw to. Coupled with the fact that there wasn't a salary cap, Montana had the same dominant defense every single season. In Brady's 6 Super Bowl appearances, spanning 14 seasons, he has had one top 5 overall defense. Coupled with the fact that he has taken drastically different rosters to the Super Bowl time and time again due to the salary cap, it isn't even close IMO.

Well, Peyton sure had the knack this year. And has a winning playoff record against Brady.And I said Brady was top 3. Even a blind homer like yourself can understand that there is a degree of subjectivity to it.

Manning does have a knack this year. You and I both know the Panthers will win SB 50.

What would be real interesting is if Manning gets yanked for Os and he makes a comeback to win? Could that happen and would Manning still get credit for the ring if he was on the bench watching...

Carolina is favored. I'd expect them to win. They're blowing out great teams. Will that make you feel better about Brady watching from home because Peyton's team beat his? That's very sad. Get well soon.

 

[satch]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass. Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

Broncos in. Patriots out. Thats all that matters now. Tune in bud. Should be a great game.

I understand you're trying to get under my skin. Pretty obvious. Unfortunately for you, I'm not the kind of Patriots fan that your style works on. I'm not shocked the Pats lost and it's not a big deal to me. I knew Denver has a great defense and they deserved to win. Pats will be back in the hunt next year as usual so I have that to look forward to. But this thread is not about the Broncos/Patriots game, and that certainly isn't all that matters now. This thread is about Manning's use of PEDs dating back to 2011, the ongoing investigation, and it's impact on his legacy.

 

[Workhorse]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

Really? That's exactly what he implied. Why bring up all of that stuff about his corporate endorsements and how he "comes across" in order to give Manning the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he used HGH? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I disagree.

Yep, it has everything to do with it. I don't profess to know either of them personally, only how they appear to the public. And if Peyton is an ### hole, he puts on one helluva good show to prove he's not.

Peyton Manning is likeable in ways and for reasons that Tom Brady isn't and never has been. I don't care what they're like behind closed doors, all we see is what they are in public. And that public perception and history is going to give Manning the benefit of the doubt and cast doubt on Brady.

Cam Newton, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers... hell even RGIII when he was coming up. Any time a QB makes it in the NFL, he's featured in advetisements and commercials. There's a reason Brady never has been. Here's the supposed face of the NFL, a good looking guy married to a super model with multiple super bowl championships, and he's never been especially likeable. The stigma of Spygate and to a lesser extent Deflategate hang over him, as do all of the other allegations made about how the Patriots do things, but even before then, he's just not that guy that people are going to trust or believe.

Manning may have taken HGH. Maybe he didn't. Who knows. But he'll get the benefit of the doubt from most that Brady and the Patriots wished they had but didn't deserve after Spygate.

Brady makes over $6 million a year in endorsements. He's very selective in the endorsements he accepts because his brand (which is tied to his Supermodel wife) is associated with luxury, which is why Brady won't endorse fast food, insurance, etc... Again, you may find that off-putting as compared to the "everyman" Manning persona. But understand that both guys choose those public images VERY carefully. If you think that Brady and Manning's respective marketing strategies gives you some insight into their character, you're pretty naïve.

 

[JIslander]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

Really? That's exactly what he implied. Why bring up all of that stuff about his corporate endorsements and how he "comes across" in order to give Manning the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he used HGH? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I disagree.

Yep, it has everything to do with it. I don't profess to know either of them personally, only how they appear to the public. And if Peyton is an ### hole, he puts on one helluva good show to prove he's not.Peyton Manning is likeable in ways and for reasons that Tom Brady isn't and never has been. I don't care what they're like behind closed doors, all we see is what they are in public. And that public perception and history is going to give Manning the benefit of the doubt and cast doubt on Brady.

Cam Newton, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers... hell even RGIII when he was coming up. Any time a QB makes it in the NFL, he's featured in advetisements and commercials. There's a reason Brady never has been. Here's the supposed face of the NFL, a good looking guy married to a super model with multiple super bowl championships, and he's never been especially likeable. The stigma of Spygate and to a lesser extent Deflategate hang over him, as do all of the other allegations made about how the Patriots do things, but even before then, he's just not that guy that people are going to trust or believe.

Manning may have taken HGH. Maybe he didn't. Who knows. But he'll get the benefit of the doubt from most that Brady and the Patriots wished they had but didn't deserve after Spygate.

Brady makes over $6 million a year in endorsements. He's very selective in the endorsements he accepts because his brand (which is tied to his Supermodel wife) is associated with luxury, which is why Brady won't endorse fast food, insurance, etc... Again, you may find that off-putting as compared to the "everyman" Manning persona. But understand that both guys choose those public images VERY carefully. If you think that Brady and Manning's respective marketing strategies gives you some insight into their character, you're pretty naïve.

I want me some of those luxurious Uggs!

 

[JuniorNB]

Patriots fans have found a way to keep their season alive.

"We was robbed. If Manning maybe hadnt done HGH in 2011 while with the Colts Brady would have found Gronk for the 2 point conversion. Wa wa wa."

LMAO. I am actually enjoying the crying and pleading. Means we stuck it in em deep.

What a joke. All Pats fans have heard for years is "if the Pats didn't cheat wa wa wa". Now Manning is at the center of a cheating scandal and Pats fans are supposed to give him a pass? Give me a break. Unlike many who used air pressure as an excuse for losing to the Patriots, I'm not implying for one second that Mannings PED use is the reason Denver beat the Pats on Sunday. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass.Like it or not, Manning's legacy is now forever tainted and his accomplishments will have a proverbial asterisk attached to them. Pats fans know all too well that all it takes nowadays is an accusation. I'm not saying it's right, that's just how it is. It's a shame, really.

Broncos in. Patriots out. Thats all that matters now. Tune in bud. Should be a great game.

I understand you're trying to get under my skin. Pretty obvious. Unfortunately for you, I'm not the kind of Patriots fan that your style works on. I'm not shocked the Pats lost and it's not a big deal to me. I knew Denver has a great defense and they deserved to win. Pats will be back in the hunt next year as usual so I have that to look forward to.But this thread is not about the Broncos/Patriots game, and that certainly isn't all that matters now. This thread is about Manning's use of PEDs dating back to 2011, the ongoing investigation, and it's impact on his legacy.

Then why are the ones who seem to want to make it a big deal, 90% Patriot fans?

 

[Steelers4Life]

He's professional and comes across as likeable, not arrogant. He's funny. He's trusted by numerous national companies as a pitchman because he's seen as honest. He's been successfull without the stigma of cheating and rule bending, and he's done things on the up and up. Fans love him and rivals' fans at least like and respect him. If he used HGH - and to this point there's still no reason to believe he did - it pales in comparison to what we already know that the Brady-led Pats did, and it pales in comparison to what they've been accused and investigated on with a flawed investigation process. Reasonable people everywhere looked at the circumstantial evidence and made their own judgements, but there's a good reason why they didn't get the benefit of the doubt. They haven't earned it and don't deserve it. Manning has.

at the notion that any of us knows a single thing about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as people or what they do/don't do out of the public eye. We see the carefully crafted avatars of what their brand teams want us to see and we have no clue what they have or haven't done behind the scenes, or what types of people they are. Remember: People used to say the same stuff about OJ Simpson, Mark McGwire and Tiger Woods that you are now saying about Manning. Truth is, the general public doesn't really know anything about superstar athletes and relying on Peyton's endorsement count as some sort of barometer of his character is truly hysterical. Maybe he is all of those things you say: Professional, likeable, not arrogant, funny and honest. Maybe he isn't.

You're right, we don't really know them personally. But I don't think there was anything in Steelers post that alluded to anything but public perception of both.

Really? That's exactly what he implied. Why bring up all of that stuff about his corporate endorsements and how he "comes across" in order to give Manning the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he used HGH? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I disagree.

Yep, it has everything to do with it. I don't profess to know either of them personally, only how they appear to the public. And if Peyton is an ### hole, he puts on one helluva good show to prove he's not.

Peyton Manning is likeable in ways and for reasons that Tom Brady isn't and never has been. I don't care what they're like behind closed doors, all we see is what they are in public. And that public perception and history is going to give Manning the benefit of the doubt and cast doubt on Brady.

Cam Newton, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers... hell even RGIII when he was coming up. Any time a QB makes it in the NFL, he's featured in advetisements and commercials. There's a reason Brady never has been. Here's the supposed face of the NFL, a good looking guy married to a super model with multiple super bowl championships, and he's never been especially likeable. The stigma of Spygate and to a lesser extent Deflategate hang over him, as do all of the other allegations made about how the Patriots do things, but even before then, he's just not that guy that people are going to trust or believe.

Manning may have taken HGH. Maybe he didn't. Who knows. But he'll get the benefit of the doubt from most that Brady and the Patriots wished they had but didn't deserve after Spygate.

Brady makes over $6 million a year in endorsements. He's very selective in the endorsements he accepts because his brand (which is tied to his Supermodel wife) is associated with luxury, which is why Brady won't endorse fast food, insurance, etc... Again, you may find that off-putting as compared to the "everyman" Manning persona. But understand that both guys choose those public images VERY carefully. If you think that Brady and Manning's respective marketing strategies gives you some insight into their character, you're pretty naïve.

Read what I wrote. I don't profess to know what either of them are really like. Maybe Manning is an ### hole and Brady would be a great guy to have a beer with, but I do think their marketing strategies would tend to speak directly to the type of person they are.

What I do know is that their public perception has a direct link to which of them gets the benefit of the doubt from the public, and that was my point. Agree or disagree, that's fine.

Manning's "everyman" persona has always connected with people, and until this HGH thing, there's never been a trace of controvery associated with him, his brand, or his teams. That has earned him a lot of respect and the benefit of the doubt from the public whether he's won or lost.

The perception of Brady was forever tarnished by Spygate and damaged further by the mounds of circumstantial evidence in deflategate whether he himself was punished based on a poor investigation or not. Based on Spygate alone, he'll never get the national respect that his accomplishments would warrant, and the elitist image it sounds like he's chosen for himself makes him that much less likeable by the public (outside of Patriots fans, of course.)

This thread was about Manning and his possible HGH use as a veiled justification for what the Patriots have done by making it seem like everyone cheats. It gets old, but fact is, Manning has earned and will get the benefit of the doubt that Brady neither deserved nor got because of both his history and public persona.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Eagles fan here---IF this were a story about Brady getting HGH following his season ending injury in whatever year (2008 I believe) this board would freaking explode. Period.

I don't care who you're a fan of or which player you hate. This Manning story isn't as big as deflated footballs and that's BS

Probably because most football fans understand that about 90% of all NFL players take PEDs. Look at players in the 70's and 80's. Jack Lambert was a feared middle linebacker. He weighed 204 lbs. These days, there are cornerbacks bigger than that. Show me receivers from the 70s or 80's who were jacked like Andre Johnson. Or a safety built like Laron Landry. Today's players are 25-35 pounds bigger than they were 30 years ago and run a faster 40 time at that weight. Why do you think that is? These guys are all on steroids. JJ Watt is for sure. Adrian Peterson. Vernon Davis...all of them. The exceptions are punters, kickers, and quarterbacks. Because they really have no benefit for them. Not saying that guys who run a lot like Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick are 100% natural (or punter Steve Weatherford), but those guys are exceptions.

HGH aids in cell reparation. That's fact. That's why recovery time for a teenager or guy in his 20's is shorter than for guys in their 40's and 50's. Your HGH level is much lower. This isn't new science. And I could send one email, get payment instructions, and have as much HGH as I want delivered to my house in a week. And until a year or two ago, it wasn't even tested for. Do you really think that AP came back at 100% from an ACL tear when it used to be nearly a two year process because he has good genetics? Come on. We're all smarter than that. All guys coming back from major injury are using HGH. Their careers depend on it.

Personally, I assume players take PEDs like I assume ALL HC's/ teams try to get an edge as well. This time last year deflatgate was everywhere from your local news to every sports station. I don't think during the Denver game it was brought up a single time. Something doesn't make sense.

Its different in NE than it is for the rest of the league. Peyton Manning should be talked about like Barry Bonds was, no? But he isn't for some odd reason. I mean they both broke records, well past their "prime", with the alleged help of HGH. What's different?

Because one MAY have taken HGH to aid his healing from an injury. The other took steroids AND HGH in an effort to totally change his body and become a player that he wasn't before. Not even a sane argument

You're looking at it after the fact for Bonds but not with Manning. If HGH was illegally delivered to his home he too changed his body and prolonged his playing career through the use of illegal drugs.

Also, Bonds by many accounts was considered a great player prior to his PED use...just like Manning.

You have no understanding of HGH ands what it does. Or you wouldn't even be comparing the two. If you want to use a baseball example, use Andy Petite.

And yes, Bonds went from a speedy 30/30 guy with a great glove to a humongous, fat headed power hitter jacking 50-70 home runs per year.

I'd like to think I have a pretty decent understanding of what HGH does and how it can help athlete's performance and recovery. Or am I missing something?

Effects of HGH on Athletes

**ETA** Bonds use of HGH was said to have occurred when recovering from knee surgery. After reading your reply I think you're crossing the 2 up

 

[JuniorNB]

I'd like to think I have a pretty decent understanding of what HGH does and how it can help athlete's performance and recovery. Or am I missing something?

Effects of HGH on Athletes

**ETA** Bonds use of HGH was said to have occurred when recovering from knee surgery. After reading your reply I think you're crossing the 2 up

HGH, taken in doses for injury recovery and not accompanied by anabolic steroids, would have no athletic benefits. They do not add muscle mass. The might lean you out a bit if body fat percentage is an issue.

Assuming the reports are correct, and Manning did take HGH after the 2011 season, do you think it's just a coincidence that it happened to be after what many thought might be a career ending injury? Manning was never a guy to beat an opponent because of athletic ability. It was because he had a strong arm and was the smartest offensive mind in the stadium. IF he took HGH, it was for the recovery benefits. Not to suddenly become Cam Newton.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I'd like to think I have a pretty decent understanding of what HGH does and how it can help athlete's performance and recovery. Or am I missing something?

Effects of HGH on Athletes

**ETA** Bonds use of HGH was said to have occurred when recovering from knee surgery. After reading your reply I think you're crossing the 2 up

HGH, taken in doses for injury recovery and not accompanied by anabolic steroids, would have no athletic benefits. They do not add muscle mass. The might lean you out a bit if body fat percentage is an issue.

Assuming the reports are correct, and Manning did take HGH after the 2011 season, do you think it's just a coincidence that it happened to be after what many thought might be a career ending injury? Manning was never a guy to beat an opponent because of athletic ability. It was because he had a strong arm and was the smartest offensive mind in the stadium. IF he took HGH, it was for the recovery benefits. Not to suddenly become Cam Newton.

Exactly. He took it to help with the recovery of a potential career ending injury--Thus prolonging his career and breaking records in the process.

And IF this is true, do you think it would have been a one-time deal? No way, right?

Side note--Can we (all of us) get away from using the "IFs"? If you want to wait and see what the proof is there's really not a need to post. If you believe the reports or are posting based on them being fact we all get the evidence and story may change....I don't take it like we're all locked into an opinion....

 

[dansav]

I'd like to think I have a pretty decent understanding of what HGH does and how it can help athlete's performance and recovery. Or am I missing something?

Effects of HGH on Athletes

**ETA** Bonds use of HGH was said to have occurred when recovering from knee surgery. After reading your reply I think you're crossing the 2 up

HGH, taken in doses for injury recovery and not accompanied by anabolic steroids, would have no athletic benefits. They do not add muscle mass. The might lean you out a bit if body fat percentage is an issue.Assuming the reports are correct, and Manning did take HGH after the 2011 season, do you think it's just a coincidence that it happened to be after what many thought might be a career ending injury? Manning was never a guy to beat an opponent because of athletic ability. It was because he had a strong arm and was the smartest offensive mind in the stadium. IF he took HGH, it was for the recovery benefits. Not to suddenly become Cam Newton.

You sound lost. Are you implicating its not a big deal that Peyton may have taken HGH. Haahaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaa

I guess it's not a big deal if Brady took .001 PSI out of football based on your logic