Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Another killing at the hands of the Police (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter In The Zone
- Start date
Death Bytes
Footballguy
The current level of anger seems as if he was already aquitted. I am confident justice will be served, and hopefully the other cops involved face some criminal charges too.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Assassins who were not BLM....despite some attempts to claim as much. Lets be clear there.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I wonder if "justice will be served" allows for the possibility (even if it is really, really remote) that we arrive at "Not Guilty".
sho nuff
Footballguy
I agree...it seems like that. IMO, because of years of it happening, because of delays in even arresting him...because of the lies and misinformation as the official account of the situation.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Right now I don't even want to think of the powder keg that will erupt at such a thing.
Heard it mentioned last night and did a bit of reading: https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/05/17/richard-nixon-kent-state-protests-white-house-lincoln-memorial/
formerfourdigit
Footballguy
I am confident they will be pardoned by Donald Trump in a giant "f-u" to his opponents after we evict him from office. Why should anyone believe that justice will be served under this current administration?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Right? Even if the jury wants to say not guilty you publicly declare him guilty anyway then whisk him off to a new life in "witness" protection.
I decided to look it up, and it really is interesting.
Nixon obviously had a lot of faults, but he was excellent at politics. I used to be a newspaper reporter and I would get emails from time to time from irate readers. I can't tell you how many times I simply responded with a "I appreciate your response and thank you for reading," and how I would then get a reply saying, "I never expected you to respond," followed by a civil exchange. Trump doesn't have to go stand among protestors, which is obviously dangerous. But he hasn't made *any* attempt to talk to them as people. He seems to have no interest in that. I'm mainly a lurker here, but I'm familiar with the stances of most of the people in this thread, and some of them grate on me to no end. It's easy for me to scroll past with no interest in what they have to say. But I'm positive that were I to meet some of these same people at a bar, we'd probably joke and have a good time. I can hate your politics without hating you. My issue with Trump is that those things are the same. He has no interest in getting to know his enemies, because then they might not be enemies anymore, and without enemies, he has nothing.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I think (my opinion) is that the current level of anger represents "not again!" while there are 3 more cops that are free but should be arrested.
And Thor help us and this country if Chauvin IS acquitted. You think these riots are bad?!
whoknew
Footballguy
I'm trying to think - with what we saw in the video - what evidence could come to light to make me thing he is not guilty. Kind of at a loss.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I haven't seen anything that explains how it went from walking him across the street to him on the ground with a knee on his neck.
whoknew
Footballguy
Yea - I think you could make a solid case for Murder 2. Especially since everyone in the crowd was yelling to him that he was killing him.
And I think premeditation can be almost instantaneous, right? So if the crowd is yelling that he is killing him and he continues to put his knee into his neck - could you make a case for Murder 1?
Probably need Zow to address.
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't think that's relevant, though. If Floyd had been killed during the apprehension, then maybe you could make that argument.
But hard to argue when he has him handcuffed and not resisting for almost 9 minutes.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
To make it even weirder, I've seen a security camera with an angle that appears to show that Floyd was in the back seat of the cruiser at some point before he was killed. When that video came out a couple days ago, some people (like Shaun King) were claiming it showed the officers punching him in the back seat, but to me it wasn't clear exactly what was happening. I'll see if I can dig that video up again.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
Given the Rodney King riots didn't start until AFTER the officers were acquitted, it will be more like a nuclear bomb than a powder keg.
The General
Footballguy
Insomniac
Footballguy
Nixon visits the hippies
It was not a planned and controlled event. Nixon, on an apparent whim, decided to go to the Lincoln Memorial in the pre-dawn hours.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
he said a bunch of words and nothing positive came from the little he did NOT do - Obama wasn't a uniter. Trump isn't a uniter
it takes a real special person to bridge across the diverse landscape of America, I'd love to see a POTUS soon to do it
Stealthycat
Footballguy
you mean with Reginald Denny ?
we've not had a POTUS unite in a very long time - Clinton might have been the best at it ... Bush's wasn't, Obama wasn't, Trump isn't
Stealthycat
Footballguy
The only thing I heard, which is on the tape, was the office saying to him when he couldn't breath "Will you get in the car peacefully now?" Or something to that effect, so, it appears that George resisted getting in the car.
Last edited by a moderator:
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Floyd was a big man, a felon, committing forgery it appears, maybe resisting ... but the police officer committed a murder, his 3 non-white police buddies watched ... there should be and will be heavy penalties for that
-jb-
Footballguy
He said, “then go ahead and get in the car.”
While. He. Was. Kneeling. On. His. Neck.
dkp993
Footballguy
So by your logic if this year is the worst you’ve seen in 25 years that means it’s gotten worse in the last year, or year before or year before, all under Trump.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
the left has been far more violent yes but in the Obama years it grew, the spawning of BLM and ANTIFA and the hatred continued to get worse and worse
yes, under Trump has gotten worse too
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Really large peaceful protests without any violence or looting seems like a lot to ask for in these times. NYC and LA seem to be ripe for issues again tonight, they have very large crowds going now. Networks all calling it "peaceful so far" (CNN, Fox, MSNBC).
It doesn't look promising based on how the last couple of nights unfolded. Hopefully the earlier curfew plus a change in tactics will help, but it's disconcerting seeing that many protesters out.
It doesn't look promising based on how the last couple of nights unfolded. Hopefully the earlier curfew plus a change in tactics will help, but it's disconcerting seeing that many protesters out.
Thanks. Right, so the logical conclusion was that he wasn't willing to get in the car. That's what I took from it too.
sho nuff
Footballguy
https://www.businessinsider.com/extremist-killings-links-right-wing-extremism-report-2019-1?amp
https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-right-wing-extremists-killed-38-people-in-2019-far-surpassing-all
https://www.csis.org/ground-combatting-rise-right-wing-terror
https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml
To just claim the left has been more violent ignores many many studies.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Oh good, now we can have another three-page slap-fight over whether left-wing violence is better or worse than right-wing violence. These add a lot of value to the forum.
-jb-
Footballguy
No. The logical conclusion is he can't get in the car with a police officer kneeling on his neck.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
99% of the rioters and looters and killing going on right now is being done by conservatives, GOP and Trump voters right ?
you don't believe that, and I don't believe it and everyone knows there aint a MAGA hate wearing guy in any of the looting photos
Death Bytes
Footballguy
Sounds like this problem has had nothing to do with who was president, and will continue to grow regardless of who is president. Maybe the issue is bigger than who is president.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I agree. Its not of value. I was merely countering the misinformation posted and backing it up again with multiple links.
Both sets of extremists are awful and bad for this country...no matter where the violence comes from. I find anyone claiming its all one side is being disingenuous at best.
That is a given, we all know that. What led up to him going to the ground?
a) He was resisting getting in the car.
b) The cop was trying to kill him.
I know what the logical answer is, but hey if you think it was B then yeah, go for murder in the 1st.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Right? Umm, no, we don't know. Which is part of the point . But i countered the claims you made. And it wasn’t just a discussion about this but about the years previous.
any attempt to claim its all just the left appears to be completely unsupported by fact.
whoknew
Footballguy
I'm having a difficult time understanding your point. Is it just that the cop should be charged only with Murder 3? That that's the appropriate charge?
I think you could definitely make a murder 2 argument and possibly murder 1 because premeditation can be a really short time period. But I will defer to Zow on that. Or better yet - DW.
Last edited by a moderator:
Insomniac
Footballguy
I thought this was much better known.
Have you ever heard the story about the time Nixon rode with Hunter S Thompson from a campaign event to the airport?
HST & Nixon ride to airport
The Commish
Footballguy
No....I mean Rodney King...that's what started the riots. Denny was a headline because of what happened to him in the riots. The riots weren't because of what happened to him (Denny).
This second statement is significantly different from your original
The prosecuters who looked at this did not just rush to judgement and say let's charge him with Murder 3. They looked at all the evidence and came up with the best charges you will get a conviction on. DW already weight in.
-jb-
Footballguy
I actually hadn't stated in any capacity what degree I would "go for." That said...
"The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder.
The concept of felony murder originates in the rule of transferred intent, which is older than the limit of legal memory. In its original form, the malicious intent inherent in the commission of any crime, however trivial, was considered to apply to any consequences of that crime, however unintended.
Felony murder is typically the same grade of murder as premeditated murder and carries the same sentence as is used for premeditated murder in the jurisdiction in question."
I'm not a lawyer, so I am not clear on whether or not police brutality can be considered a dangerous or enumerated crime. The main reason I have stayed clear of the topic so far. I was merely commenting on what you thought the office said during the incident. I happen to remember it specifically because I was so disgusted when I heard him say it.
Last edited by a moderator:
whoknew
Footballguy
Yea the prosecutors can be wrong. Or, as you hinted at, they may be charging for different reasons. DW said Murder 1 is not appropriate and he thinks he was "more or less" charged appropriately.
I think - just from reading the statute - murder 2 is definitely possible. But it would be harder to prove. Was there intent to kill? I think you can make that argument based on the fact that the crowd was shouting at him to stop - that he was dying. And that Floyd himself said he couldn't breathe.
Having said all of this - its not something I really worry about. Murder 3 is fine with me. I was just trying to figure out the point tony was trying to make.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
You need to get up to speed on what happened. There is video of them putting him in the police car, then something happens in the car and officer Chauvin pulls him out of the car on the other side from where they put him in and kneels on his neck. The other officers run around and kneel on him as well. He wasnt resisting getting in the car, he was already in the car and then was removed from it and killed.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First
MINNEAPOLIS—Calling for a more measured way to express opposition to police brutality, critics slammed demonstrators Thursday for recklessly looting businesses without forming a private equity firm first. “Look, we all have the right to protest, but that doesn’t mean you can just rush in and destroy any business without gathering a group of clandestine investors to purchase it at a severely reduced price and slowly bleed it to death,” said Facebook commenter Amy Mulrain, echoing the sentiments of detractors nationwide who blasted the demonstrators for not hiring a consultant group to take stock of a struggling company’s assets before plundering. “I understand that people are angry, but they shouldn’t just endanger businesses without even a thought to enriching themselves through leveraged buyouts and across-the-board terminations. It’s disgusting to put workers at risk by looting. You do it by chipping away at their health benefits and eventually laying them off. There’s a right way and wrong way to do this.” At press time, critics recommended that protestors hold law enforcement accountable by simply purchasing the Minneapolis police department from taxpayers.
MINNEAPOLIS—Calling for a more measured way to express opposition to police brutality, critics slammed demonstrators Thursday for recklessly looting businesses without forming a private equity firm first. “Look, we all have the right to protest, but that doesn’t mean you can just rush in and destroy any business without gathering a group of clandestine investors to purchase it at a severely reduced price and slowly bleed it to death,” said Facebook commenter Amy Mulrain, echoing the sentiments of detractors nationwide who blasted the demonstrators for not hiring a consultant group to take stock of a struggling company’s assets before plundering. “I understand that people are angry, but they shouldn’t just endanger businesses without even a thought to enriching themselves through leveraged buyouts and across-the-board terminations. It’s disgusting to put workers at risk by looting. You do it by chipping away at their health benefits and eventually laying them off. There’s a right way and wrong way to do this.” At press time, critics recommended that protestors hold law enforcement accountable by simply purchasing the Minneapolis police department from taxpayers.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Why take him out of a car he was already in?
Did they have him in one car, take him out, and try and put him in a different one? There were multiple squad cars there at once.
Similar threads
