What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

*** 2024 Pittsburgh Steelers: looking for CB and D-line depth in Day 3 (18 Viewers)

As is, he'll fit right into MT's vision of an offense and is an upgrade from the worst QB last season. I'm guessing that's enough to get some fans excited.
I'm excited to move past the KP mistake after only 2 seasons. Ending this nightmare at least 1 year earlier than expected when he was drafted. Cut Kenny and upgrade to Russ/Fields is best case scenario this offseason.
Same time we get a Matt Canada free training camp. Smith has been very successful as OC and is more hands on than Canada will ever be. After several years of being one of the worst offenses in the league, the bar is LOW. Looking forward to see how the offense progresses with all the changes. Hopefully people give them some time to put it all together & not over react if we start out slow.

Say what you want about the NFL being a passing league now and running game is less important... the best teams are able to lean on the run today. KC wasn't great at it, but ran the ball a ton down the stretch. CLE, SF, PHI, DET (Montgomery and Gibbs TD numbers are crazy), Buffalo offense centered around Cook in december/january. Baltimore was probably the best team in the NFL before getting cute in the playoffs attempting to win through the air.
You are right in that the bar can't possibly get any lower than the last two seasons on offense. Running game is an essential part, but you simply won't beat the elite QBs come playoff time by just controlling TOP. You need both the ability to score quickly and also the ability for long drives ending in TDs. Mahomes is in a tier alone, then you might have Allen and a healthy Burrow to contend with. Now it appears CJ has possibly entered the mix. I would include Lamar, but he isn't a consistent playoff performer. It will come down to QB play in playoffs more often than not, and when you enter the postseason with just a running game threat, teams have shown that can be shut down time and time again. Even when Arthur had the best RB in King, he tasted humble pie and had no answers when teams took King out of the game.

As is, there should will improvement with Wilson/Fields over KP at that position. They haven't addressed losing a legit outside WR in DJ yet. Say what you want about him, but he is a legit #2 who can play at X or Flanker, something they do not have aside from Pickens right now. What they gained at the QB position was met with a downgrade at the WR position. Not sure it matters much in an Arthur/MT offense though.
 
What they gained at the QB position was met with a downgrade at the WR position. Not sure it matters much in an Arthur/MT offense though.

I agree with this, including the part that I worry may be what the Steelers themselves believe (i.e. maybe "it doesn't matter in this offense", and they are okay with rolling the dice on guys who can block downfield and trying to feature just Pickens at WR).

I suppose the draft will show us if the proof is in that particular pudding/what they're really thinking. Smith's offense, traditionally, just have not supported having a couple of dynamic WRs. It's been nice to hear they're chasing after legit WRs in trade, and talking to guys like Boyd still, etc., buuuuut actions are what matters. At the moment their actions are telling us "We are going to run the HELL out of the ball to the point of ridiculousness, and try and make teams pay for stacking boxes off play action." In that scenario...WRs become decidedly secondary. 😶
 
What they gained at the QB position was met with a downgrade at the WR position. Not sure it matters much in an Arthur/MT offense though.

I agree with this, including the part that I worry may be what the Steelers themselves believe (i.e. maybe "it doesn't matter in this offense", and they are okay with rolling the dice on guys who can block downfield and trying to feature just Pickens at WR).

I suppose the draft will show us if the proof is in that particular pudding/what they're really thinking. Smith's offense, traditionally, just have not supported having a couple of dynamic WRs. It's been nice to hear they're chasing after legit WRs in trade, and talking to guys like Boyd still, etc., buuuuut actions are what matters. At the moment their actions are telling us "We are going to run the HELL out of the ball to the point of ridiculousness, and try and make teams pay for stacking boxes off play action." In that scenario...WRs become decidedly secondary. 😶
My fear is going into the season with just Pickens as the lone threat outside. Teams will eliminate that once they catch on. They can keep one safety high over the top while pressing the other down into the box for the run game.

Even during Arthur's best years as OC, he never produced a passing game in the top 20. It was all King Henry mixed with some play action to AJ, who was underutilized in Tenn. That worked up to the point until they ran into KC and Mahomes in 2019. Once the film was out for all to see what offense it was, it was one and done with King being eliminated as the lone threat for the next two seasons.
 
Russ plays scared, hangs on to the ball too long, is skittish in the pocket, and will dump off if his first read is covered. Watch any film from last year and you'll see it yourself. Payton got rid of him for a reason, and he has a much better offensive mindset than anyone in Pittsburgh.

Read one covered, check down, scramble, or get sacked. Repeat

That is where he's at in his career.
Red=wrong.
Does hang on to the ball too long which leads to sacks. But you can't be both "hanging on to the ball too long" and "dump off when the first read is covered". It's one or the other.
And Payton's (unearned) ego is why they let him go. Some would even say hatred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRPrTKD4fo

And let's not forget that Payton was suspended for a year for being an *******. Not shocked he was an ******* to Wilson.
 
Russ plays scared, hangs on to the ball too long, is skittish in the pocket, and will dump off if his first read is covered. Watch any film from last year and you'll see it yourself. Payton got rid of him for a reason, and he has a much better offensive mindset than anyone in Pittsburgh.

Read one covered, check down, scramble, or get sacked. Repeat

That is where he's at in his career.
Red=wrong.
Does hang on to the ball too long which leads to sacks. But you can't be both "hanging on to the ball too long" and "dump off when the first read is covered". It's one or the other.
And Payton's (unearned) ego is why they let him go. Some would even say hatred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRPrTKD4fo

And let's not forget that Payton was suspended for a year for being an *******. Not shocked he was an ******* to Wilson.
Dump offs are not always available. His proficiency to get sacked last season became an art form. The guy is not what some think he is.

 
What they gained at the QB position was met with a downgrade at the WR position. Not sure it matters much in an Arthur/MT offense though.

I agree with this, including the part that I worry may be what the Steelers themselves believe (i.e. maybe "it doesn't matter in this offense", and they are okay with rolling the dice on guys who can block downfield and trying to feature just Pickens at WR).

I suppose the draft will show us if the proof is in that particular pudding/what they're really thinking. Smith's offense, traditionally, just have not supported having a couple of dynamic WRs. It's been nice to hear they're chasing after legit WRs in trade, and talking to guys like Boyd still, etc., buuuuut actions are what matters. At the moment their actions are telling us "We are going to run the HELL out of the ball to the point of ridiculousness, and try and make teams pay for stacking boxes off play action." In that scenario...WRs become decidedly secondary. 😶
My fear is going into the season with just Pickens as the lone threat outside. Teams will eliminate that once they catch on. They can keep one safety high over the top while pressing the other down into the box for the run game.

Even during Arthur's best years as OC, he never produced a passing game in the top 20. It was all King Henry mixed with some play action to AJ, who was underutilized in Tenn. That worked up to the point until they ran into KC and Mahomes in 2019. Once the film was out for all to see what offense it was, it was one and done with King being eliminated as the lone threat for the next two seasons.
I would be shocked if they don't use at least one pick on WR in the first 3 rounds. If we plan to go WR in the 1st and the top 3 are gone, I'd love for us to trade down to late 1st and grab Ladd. Some people pigeonhole him as a slot, but he's more than capable as an outside WR. I'd be happy to trade down with Detroit who could want to leap up if there's a run on CB (they need a CB now more than ever if you haven't heard); we could send 20 and 98 for 29 and 61. ALso, with WR value skyrocketing, getting that 5th year option is huge.

I do think it's more likely that we go OL or CB in the 1st and WR in the 2nd or 3rd.
 
Steelers only sent Dunbar to LSU, so if history holds, we're not taking Brian Thomas.

Georgia Pro Day had Omar, Tomlin, Arthur, and Teryl, so my hope still stands for Ladd, though with bringing in Mims for a 30 visit that makes him a more likely pick.
 
Steelers only sent Dunbar to LSU, so if history holds, we're not taking Brian Thomas.

Georgia Pro Day had Omar, Tomlin, Arthur, and Teryl, so my hope still stands for Ladd, though with bringing in Mims for a 30 visit that makes him a more likely pick.

Without any inside info, I am thinking it is Latham or Mims, unless someone projected much higher falls.

Then it is C and WR the next two rounds depending on who is there. Van-Pran has not fallen to me in the 3rd in any mocks the last few days. So may need to stretch for C in the 2nd, or trade back and take best WR available in 3rd.
 
2024 draft is full of OL and WR. FULL.

One man's trash is another's treasure. In this case the Steelers dumpster dove for two QBs who provide way better placeholding than what they had last year, with some upside in Fields, and importantly, the ability/flexibility to draft a QB of the future if they see one next month. Total win IMO so far, and I don't care how tight Dionte Johnson's routes were, he was a stone-handed DIVA who couldn't handle a real WR1 taking over his position on the team - addition by subtraction right there.
 
My fear is going into the season with just Pickens as the lone threat outside. Teams will eliminate that once they catch on. They can keep one safety high over the top while pressing the other down into the box for the run game.
100% with you here. Teams were able to neutralize Pickens entirely and dare Pittsburgh to beat them with another receiver. Diontae could deliver as a #2. My fear is loading up on WR who block and need schemed open. Having Aiyuk and Pickens on the boundaries would be a back breaker. Leave either 1-1 and the Steelers have the advantage. Can't double both all game long and still defend the run. I'm glad the Steelers are exploring what it takes to make that happen. Hoping Omar finds a way to trade or draft another #1WR. To me, this is 100% more important than reaching for a center.

Even during Arthur's best years as OC, he never produced a passing game in the top 20. It was all King Henry mixed with some play action to AJ, who was underutilized in Tenn. That worked up to the point until they ran into KC and Mahomes in 2019. Once the film was out for all to see what offense it was, it was one and done with King being eliminated as the lone threat for the next two seasons.
Kinda speaks more to the level of QB play Smith has had over the years. Russ and Justin will likely be the best QB he's ever had a chance to work with. Unless someone can tell us how the Steelers can get a Mahomes, this is the best we can do in 2024. Will settle for heavy run and highly effective passing. Mason Rudolph killed it with limited passes. Say what you want, the DEFENSE lost the playoff game, not the offense.
 
The D tends to lay eggs come playoff time. As for the QB situation, I agree this is the best they could do and both on the cheap, but they left this QB situation dangling for too long. I wished for it to be addressed in the 2020 draft, yet here we are and the search will continue next year in my opinion. As for WR, I'm not sure what vision they have, but leaving Pickens on an island alone with some slot and gadget guys around him will be troublesome. I'm hoping this gets addressed before the draft, but at least get someone who can play outside in the draft when the time comes.

Arthur had Tanny who was playing his best ball chucking it to AJ on occasion and running that type of offense the way it was meant to be run. Problem became when King was neutralized, especially in the playoffs. This type of offense is not built for coming back or to be effective through the air without a run game. Wilson will have issues passing over the middle of the field in comparison, and I don't believe he can run things as well as Tanny did for Arthur.
 
The Steelers have a pre-draft visit scheduled with Washington QB Michael Penix Jr.

I would absolutely love to have him but I'm not sure they can afford to take him with other needs currently.
 
Russ plays scared, hangs on to the ball too long, is skittish in the pocket, and will dump off if his first read is covered. Watch any film from last year and you'll see it yourself. Payton got rid of him for a reason, and he has a much better offensive mindset than anyone in Pittsburgh.

Read one covered, check down, scramble, or get sacked. Repeat

That is where he's at in his career.
Red=wrong.
Does hang on to the ball too long which leads to sacks. But you can't be both "hanging on to the ball too long" and "dump off when the first read is covered". It's one or the other.
And Payton's (unearned) ego is why they let him go. Some would even say hatred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRPrTKD4fo

And let's not forget that Payton was suspended for a year for being an *******. Not shocked he was an ******* to Wilson.
Dump offs are not always available. His proficiency to get sacked last season became an art form. The guy is not what some think he is.

Paytons offense caters towards a qb who thinks quick and gets rid of the ball to the right guy. Anticipation is crucial here. These are not skills Russ has.

Hopefully mustache runs an offense more like Seattle did.
 
If they start their draft with Latham and, like, Frazier in the second I almost wont care what they do after. That would galvanize that OL tremendously.

WR is DEEP. They can get a gamer in 3.
Who knows how accurate the talking heads are, but the consensus big board has Frazier around pick 40, and there are a decent amount of center needy teams. I think we'd have to trade up for Frazier in the 2nd, possibly costing us pick 98.

Right now it feels like Mims is the pick in the 1st at 20 if he's still there, and then we hope Sedrick falls to us in the 3rd, or trade up slightly in the 3rd for him. 2nd and late 3rd are good chances for CB/LB/WR.
 
These draft simulators are preposterous. With three trade backs I got a total of 16 picks. I was able to draft Jackson Powers-Johnson at 31, grabbed Edgerrin Cooper LB, Xavier Legette WR, and Patrick Paul OT in the 2nd, Kris Abrams-Draine CB, Jonathan Brooks RB, Jeremiah Trotter Jr LB, and Jermaine Burton WR in the 3rd, plus like 8 more players in the 4th - 7th.

100% won't happen in real life, but it is fun to see a complete roster rebuild in a single draft.

Also, wouldn't be shocked if we take a RB earlier than people expect. It's not a great class for it, but if we don't extend Najee then RB is a big need next season.
 
These draft simulators are preposterous. With three trade backs I got a total of 16 picks. I was able to draft Jackson Powers-Johnson at 31, grabbed Edgerrin Cooper LB, Xavier Legette WR, and Patrick Paul OT in the 2nd, Kris Abrams-Draine CB, Jonathan Brooks RB, Jeremiah Trotter Jr LB, and Jermaine Burton WR in the 3rd, plus like 8 more players in the 4th - 7th.

100% won't happen in real life, but it is fun to see a complete roster rebuild in a single draft.

Also, wouldn't be shocked if we take a RB earlier than people expect. It's not a great class for it, but if we don't extend Najee then RB is a big need next season.
You pull that off on draft day and Omar will call you the Khan artist.

Agree the trades are easy to manipulate at places like walkthemock. Fun to see how crazy you can get for giggles.
 
If the Steelers take Mims in the 1st, they really need to move up and get Frazier in the 2nd IMHO. Can't make another dumb Humphries move and skip out on a day 1 starting C.
 
Also, wouldn't be shocked if we take a RB earlier than people expect. It's not a great class for it, but if we don't extend Najee then RB is a big need next season.
They're bringing in Dillon Johnson for a visit but that's a day 3 or PFA pickup.
 
Graham Barton would be intriguing since he's played both C and T. "projects" inside in the NFL though.
 
Who needs a C with picks 1-19? Anyone? Miami and Dallas are after us, but could move up. Would Cincy screw us over? Yes. But would that mean an OT gets to us at 20? Maybe. What would it cost to get to pick 17? Would Jags want to move down to 20? Khan has all that covered. Its Latham, JPJ, Mims in that order for me. But getting JPJ at 20, opens up the draft more IMO. WR in 2nd, OT and defense in 3rd. As much as Dan Moore needs replaced, he can still start at LT, whereas I dont want Herbig moving to C.

Why has Van Pran fallen off a cliff? He was #1 C before end of season, did he get hurt or not play well in 2023?
 
Also, wouldn't be shocked if we take a RB earlier than people expect. It's not a great class for it, but if we don't extend Najee then RB is a big need next season
I'll be shocked. RB is just not a developmental position and the value is on the rookie deal. You draft one the year you need one, not before.
 
Who needs a C with picks 1-19? Anyone? Miami and Dallas are after us, but could move up. Would Cincy screw us over? Yes. But would that mean an OT gets to us at 20? Maybe. What would it cost to get to pick 17? Would Jags want to move down to 20? Khan has all that covered. Its Latham, JPJ, Mims in that order for me. But getting JPJ at 20, opens up the draft more IMO. WR in 2nd, OT and defense in 3rd. As much as Dan Moore needs replaced, he can still start at LT, whereas I dont want Herbig moving to C.

Why has Van Pran fallen off a cliff? He was #1 C before end of season, did he get hurt or not play well in 2023?
Maybe the pick is JPJ, and there was some secret Tomlin/Khan meeting that we don't know about. The contingent at Alabama and Georgia make me think they want Latham or Mims though right now.
 
Also, wouldn't be shocked if we take a RB earlier than people expect. It's not a great class for it, but if we don't extend Najee then RB is a big need next season
I'll be shocked. RB is just not a developmental position and the value is on the rookie deal. You draft one the year you need one, not before.
Given the 3 RBs on the roster and other needs, no way they draft a RB in 2024 IMO
 
Last edited:
Who needs a C with picks 1-19? Anyone? Miami and Dallas are after us, but could move up. Would Cincy screw us over? Yes. But would that mean an OT gets to us at 20? Maybe. What would it cost to get to pick 17? Would Jags want to move down to 20? Khan has all that covered. Its Latham, JPJ, Mims in that order for me. But getting JPJ at 20, opens up the draft more IMO. WR in 2nd, OT and defense in 3rd. As much as Dan Moore needs replaced, he can still start at LT, whereas I dont want Herbig moving to C.

Why has Van Pran fallen off a cliff? He was #1 C before end of season, did he get hurt or not play well in 2023?
Maybe the pick is JPJ, and there was some secret Tomlin/Khan meeting that we don't know about. The contingent at Alabama and Georgia make me think they want Latham or Mims though right now.
Last year I said I would trade up for Jones, and was told to go to hell, never trade up for an OL. Well, they did. Can see the same for Latham. Having 2 monsters at both OTs, for years, would be nice. Then if Miami jumps them to get JPJ, Mims as a fallback would be fine, again, 2 monster OTs for years.
 
Who needs a C with picks 1-19? Anyone? Miami and Dallas are after us, but could move up. Would Cincy screw us over? Yes. But would that mean an OT gets to us at 20? Maybe. What would it cost to get to pick 17? Would Jags want to move down to 20? Khan has all that covered. Its Latham, JPJ, Mims in that order for me. But getting JPJ at 20, opens up the draft more IMO. WR in 2nd, OT and defense in 3rd. As much as Dan Moore needs replaced, he can still start at LT, whereas I dont want Herbig moving to C.

Why has Van Pran fallen off a cliff? He was #1 C before end of season, did he get hurt or not play well in 2023?
SVP arm length is on the short side at 31.38" is something I've heard, but that's only an inch shorter than JPJ... so???
Strong hands, especially good at run blocking. Finishes well and high motor. I like him a ton as a 3rd round draft pick. Think he will be a good NFL starter, but probably not elite. There should be better options round 1 and 2. Barring a Penix surprise pick, looking like round 1 will be CB or OT. Fuaga, Latham, Mims, Wiggins (scary fast) Round 2 lock in WR Pearsall, X Legette. Depending who is there in the 3rd (2 picks) scoop up value or lock in your center unless we miss out. Can live with some of the lower round options, but don't pass on elite talent.

Draft profile

Weaknesses​

  • Too straight-kneed getting into contact at the point of attack.
  • Losses often stem from inconsistent body control.
  • Footwork starts to get sloppy once rush action heats up.
  • Short arms and can be beaten by length at punch point.
  • Leans out past his toes getting into most blocks due to lower-body tightness.


Strengths
  • Gritty and determined with three years of high-leverage snaps under his belt.
  • Keeps slide steps measured and choppy sliding to pass rusher.
  • Utilizes hand resets to turn the tables and overtake top positioning.
  • Hands are twitchy getting from snap to punch in the run game.
  • Powerful grip strength helps bring opponent tight and lock him into place.
  • Plays with above-average feel for run block positioning on first and second levels.
  • Success rate blocking linebackers helped spring long runs.
 
i think the local media in pittsburgh has taught people its either JPJ or the WVU kid, or its a failure. Thats not the case at all.
Barton would be excellent. Not all caught up on Nourzad, but I assume Tomlin, et al have seen all the PSU OL film.
 
These draft simulators are preposterous.
yes, they all seem to be, but maybe the least so is nfldraftbuzz.com because they offer the option of 5 different trade value charts. the Harvard, Fitzgerald-Spielberger, and Chase Stuart charts are skewed in the opposite direction from what you describe, so higher round picks return far less value than is common for actual nfl trades. Jimmy Johnson chart most over values higher round picks like you describe, and Rich Hill is better, but none seem to really hit the middle ground.

draftbuzz also provides a lot of info on players and where various outlets have them ranked. imperfect, but interesting site.
 
These draft simulators are preposterous.
yes, they all seem to be, but maybe the least so is nfldraftbuzz.com because they offer the option of 5 different trade value charts. the Harvard, Fitzgerald-Spielberger, and Chase Stuart charts are skewed in the opposite direction from what you describe, so higher round picks return far less value than is common for actual nfl trades. Jimmy Johnson chart most over values higher round picks like you describe, and Rich Hill is better, but none seem to really hit the middle ground.

draftbuzz also provides a lot of info on players and where various outlets have them ranked. imperfect, but interesting site.
I discovered Draftbuzz last year and really like it.
 
Mock drafts are fun but they're about as likely as getting the final four right.
Usually I am able to get a few players/picks right. But it is more about finding players you like and seeing where guys might be available/fall etc. The trades are crazy though -- but fun to do one where you just accept every trade sometimes.
 
Last edited:
Mock drafts are fun but they're about as likely as getting the final four right.
Usually I am able to get a few players/picks right. But it is more about finding players you like and seeing where guys might be available/fall etc. The trades are crazy though -- but fun to do one where you just accept every trade sometimes.
I love some of the trade offers where I can trade down and add picks but since I'm looking for players for this year the trades that are future year picks are always rejected.
 
Mock drafts are fun but they're about as likely as getting the final four right.
Usually I am able to get a few players/picks right. But it is more about finding players you like and seeing where guys might be available/fall etc. The trades are crazy though -- but fun to do one where you just accept every trade sometimes.
I love some of the trade offers where I can trade down and add picks but since I'm looking for players for this year the trades that are future year picks are always rejected.
I do exactly the same thing!
 
Would be nice if Khan could trade back to 1.27 with Arizona. Add picks 66 and 90.

Would give them six picks in the first 3 rounds, and then the one 4th.

Take either JPJ or Frazier at 1.27. They then would still have 2.19, 3.2, 3.20, 3.26, 3.34.
 
Would be nice if Khan could trade back to 1.27 with Arizona. Add picks 66 and 90.

Would give them six picks in the first 3 rounds, and then the one 4th.

Take either JPJ or Frazier at 1.27. They then would still have 2.19, 3.2, 3.20, 3.26, 3.34.
I really want a trade down. However to take a WR. I don't think any WR left at the Steelers pick in round 2 is likely to be a difference maker. Thomas could make sense at 20, but there is a lot of talk he could be gone. Trading back to target McConkey or Franklin would be awesome.
 
I don't think any WR left at the Steelers pick in round 2 is likely to be a difference maker.

Artie Smith chuckled at this. A lot. Like, a LOT lot. A "difference maker WR" in his mind in this offense is probably a 4th TE that can run block.

This team is probably going to run the ball 500+ times. "We dont need no steenkin' wideouts!" - Artie/Coach T
 
Prediction: Steelers first three picks (in whatever order, whether they trade up/down or not) are two OL and a CB.
2 OL, a corner and a wr are a given this draft. Could even double up. The question is whether they think dline or linebacker are priorities or if we get a random tight end and last round qb.
 
Prediction: Steelers first three picks (in whatever order, whether they trade up/down or not) are two OL and a CB.
2 OL, a corner and a wr are a given this draft. Could even double up. The question is whether they think dline or linebacker are priorities or if we get a random tight end and last round qb.
Totally a given...but Im not going to be surprised if WR isnt taken until pick 98. If not 119.

They should be considering DL. Cam is ancient, Ogie not much younger, etc etc. There are a handful of Day 2 guys that are good fits. I wouldnt hate it.
 
Last edited:
Prediction: Steelers first three picks (in whatever order, whether they trade up/down or not) are two OL and a CB.
2 OL, a corner and a wr are a given this draft. Could even double up. The question is whether they think dline or linebacker are priorities or if we get a random tight end and last round qb.
They have done a lot of visits to top LB pro-days, I would be surprised if one of the top 4 picks isn't an ILB. I think it's more likely OL, OL, ILB, WR, than CB.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top