Can we discuss laws and impact on states without getting “politically”? New FL law requiring age verification for adult sites. (1 Viewer)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

True although it sure seems like likes of parents are giving their kids access to their sportsbook accounts. I overheard so much sports betting talk in the hallways at HS. There is almost surely a huge (well even bigger than we already have) gambling problem coming a few years down the pipe.

I'm not in a high school to hear this everyday like you are, but from my more limited interaction the sports betting talk is certainly there and I have my doubts that this is limited to access to parents' accounts (at least accounts parents actually know exist).

 

[belljr]

I think a benefit of laws like these even if they are almost impossible to enforce is forcing a conversation both Nationally and in homes. I don't know, but I wonder how many homes is this something parents are ever discussing with their kids? Are parents monitoring their kids internet use? If not, why not?

I don’t know a parent that isn’t/wasn’t concerned about allowing their kids unfettered access to the internet. Everyone more or less expresses angst about getting their kid a phone. Parenting styles differ, but it was certainly an on going conversation in my house for the first few years of her using it. And I monitored/limited her activity as best as I could.

It is also discussed at school. Every child is given a chrome book. Internet access is limited on them for this very reason.

Your stance is an odd one. Every kid I know is more tech savvy than their previous generation. Which will continue as we head more and more into a digital age. My daughter and her friends, seniors in high school, can run circles around my generation in general functionality of computers and phones. Which is what a VPN is, they are literally child’s play to them. ALL of their schooling and socializing is done through computers/phones. How old are these kids that you know, that aren’t tech savvy?

This is a few years old but it’s a good explanation of what I mean

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/11/16/todays-kids-may-be-digital-natives-new-study-shows-they-arent-close-being-computer-literate/

I teach HS and many of these kids struggle to even understand how Google works.

I can’t read the article, I’m not giving them an email. My kid would just fabricate one what is their definition of tech savvy? Code writing? And where in the country are you that HS kids don’t know how to use google. And then there’s the joke about kids being unable to grasp the simplest concepts at school yet they know the lore of Star Wars/marvel/hunger games/harry potter verbatim.

I work in the US and so many kids use Google like idiots. They know how to use it but they type full questions like it’s a human being and not like it’s just aggregating based on keywords. I promise you so many of these kids are awful with computers. Obviously they are much better with their phones and anything visual, touch based. Anyway the article just said Gen Z’s computer literacy is really bad and trails millennials despite being digital natives.

As a Millennial that manages a wide age range of staff, it has been very surprising to me that I need to help the Gen Z employees nearly as much as the boomers. Whereas the Millennials and Gen Xers don't typically need anywhere near as much handholding. I generally think the generational stereotypes are blown away out of proportion but wrt computer literacy, there is remarkable consistency. And the people I'm dealing with are engineers or engineering adjacent folks, a demographic that I would assume to be much more computer literate than the average.

Outside of some kids that are PC gamers a great majority of kids use phones/tablets and for school Chromebooks. They have no idea how PCs work. I had to sit with my daughter before she left for college about PC basics. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how to install programs completely. Her one engineering lecture taught them excel.

 

[dkp993]

I took a keyboarding class in High School.

It’s literally the single biggest knowledge or skillset I took from HS without question. I can’t tell you how many times I had to type “The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog”…..

 

[Joe Bryant]

How do you implement this to effectively thwart minors from accessing those sites without overburdening adults legitimately access those sites? Or put adults at risk for things such as identity theft, etc. I think this should be the predominant question.

Legal online sportsbooks have been doing this for several years now at tremendous scale. It's a problem that's been solved.

First, I don't use these sites so I don't know what is needed to access a sports book site. Would I need to login and do some form of second verification that it is me each time I access the site as well as providing some form of age verification at sign up? How long does that last before timing out?

I think as a society that sports books is more analogous to porn in that society doesn't care about the hurdles involved in signing in. That the ID requirements seem appropriate for Sports Book where the money is made on the bets (at least in theory, I'm guessing that these sites have a lot of the next sentence going on - ). But for social media where the money is made on knowing anything and everything about the user is providing such ID to the database a step too far?

As far as I'm concern, I stated the questions. I don't really know the answer to that last question if I assume that Facebook (for example) doesn't already have my driver's license (or whatever) information.

Finally, I have strong doubts that whatever is in place is working to keep teen bettors away, based on conversation I hear from teens on various prop bets.

Thanks. I'm sure it's not perfect, but online sports books have solved this problem. There are undoubtedly some that are savvy enough to skirt the law, but in my experience, with savvy people, they abide by the rules. I've seen it happen when tech savvy people would take a train to NJ to place their bets then ride back to NY.

It's not perfect, but it's extremely effective.

In other words, we clearly have the ability and tech expertise to inact this. That part is solved.

What's uncertain is if we have the will.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I took a keyboarding class in High School.

It’s literally the single biggest knowledge or skillset I took from HS without question. I can’t tell you how many times I had to type “The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog”…..

Same.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Outside of some kids that are PC gamers a great majority of kids use phones/tablets and for school Chromebooks. They have no idea how PCs work. I had to sit with my daughter before she left for college about PC basics. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how to install programs completely. Her one engineering lecture taught them excel.

Off-topic, but I've read in a few different places that people under a certain age -- I don't remember the range, but it included young adults -- don't understand the concept of folders being used to organize information in a computer. That's not meant as an insult to those folks. They've grown up their entire lives never needing to dig into the guts of their machine, like we did. It's kind of like how my dad knows how to work on a car and I don't even change my own oil anymore, let alone know how to fix anything.

 

[belljr]

Outside of some kids that are PC gamers a great majority of kids use phones/tablets and for school Chromebooks. They have no idea how PCs work. I had to sit with my daughter before she left for college about PC basics. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how to install programs completely. Her one engineering lecture taught them excel.

Off-topic, but I've read in a few different places that people under a certain age -- I don't remember the range, but it included young adults -- don't understand the concept of folders being used to organize information in a computer. That's not meant as an insult to those folks. They've grown up their entire lives never needing to dig into the guts of their machine, like we did. It's kind of like how my dad knows how to work on a car and I don't even change my own oil anymore, let alone know how to fix anything.

Yep 100%. On her Chromebook one day I told her to go to the download folder. And she did it through her browser I was like no go to the directory, she had no concept.

Then when I setup her PC I was like to to your desktop, ok now go into your whatever folder and she had no concept it was a place on her machine.

 

[Ilov80s]

Outside of some kids that are PC gamers a great majority of kids use phones/tablets and for school Chromebooks. They have no idea how PCs work. I had to sit with my daughter before she left for college about PC basics. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how to install programs completely. Her one engineering lecture taught them excel.

Off-topic, but I've read in a few different places that people under a certain age -- I don't remember the range, but it included young adults -- don't understand the concept of folders being used to organize information in a computer. That's not meant as an insult to those folks. They've grown up their entire lives never needing to dig into the guts of their machine, like we did. It's kind of like how my dad knows how to work on a car and I don't even change my own oil anymore, let alone know how to fix anything.

Yep 100%. On her Chromebook one day I told her to go to the download folder. And she did it through her browser I was like no go to the directory, she had no concept.

Then when I setup her PC I was like to to your desktop, ok now go into your whatever folder and she had no concept it was a place on her machine.

lol so true. It's happened so many times where I've tried to help a teenager find a file they are looking for (usually in their Google Drive) and I ask them what they named it and they always look at me like I am crazy. They don't name them. They are just all called "Untitled Document”. So then I started telling the kids to name their files. Pretty quickly I learned they didn't understand what that meant because by name the file, they thought that meant just literally make the file name their own name and I ended up seeing kids with Google Drives that were just dozens of files called "Kaden Jones". So I've began teaching them how to name the files based on the subject and topic. I feel like this something a 4th grader should intuitively understand. Like how is it helpful to name the file if all the files have the same name? It's unreal.

 

[belljr]

Outside of some kids that are PC gamers a great majority of kids use phones/tablets and for school Chromebooks. They have no idea how PCs work. I had to sit with my daughter before she left for college about PC basics. And I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how to install programs completely. Her one engineering lecture taught them excel.

Off-topic, but I've read in a few different places that people under a certain age -- I don't remember the range, but it included young adults -- don't understand the concept of folders being used to organize information in a computer. That's not meant as an insult to those folks. They've grown up their entire lives never needing to dig into the guts of their machine, like we did. It's kind of like how my dad knows how to work on a car and I don't even change my own oil anymore, let alone know how to fix anything.

Yep 100%. On her Chromebook one day I told her to go to the download folder. And she did it through her browser I was like no go to the directory, she had no concept.

Then when I setup her PC I was like to to your desktop, ok now go into your whatever folder and she had no concept it was a place on her machine.

lol so true. It's happened so many times where I've tried to help a teenager find a file they are looking for (usually in their Google Drive) and I ask them what they named it and they always look at me like I am crazy. They don't name them. They are just all called "Untitled Document:. So then I started telling the kids to name their files. Pretty quickly I learned they didn't understand what that meant because by name the file, they thought that meant just literally make the file name their own name and I ended up seeing kids with Google Drives that were just dozens of files called "Kaden Jones". So I've began teaching them how to name the files based on the subject and topic. I feel like this something a 4th grader should intuitively understand. Like how is it helpful to name the file if all the files have the same name? It's unreal.

Lol my kid wasn't that bad. She would name her docks and know how to get them off to drive and stuff like that. But when it physically came to like copying things on your machine and moving it around she had no idea

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Thanks. I'm sure it's not perfect, but online sports books have solved this problem. There are undoubtedly some that are savvy enough to skirt the law, but in my experience, with savvy people, they abide by the rules. I've seen it happen when tech savvy people would take a train to NJ to place their bets then ride back to NY.

It's not perfect, but it's extremely effective.

In other words, we clearly have the ability and tech expertise to inact this. That part is solved.

What's uncertain is if we have the will.

First I agree with most of your larger points here. That the technology isn't really that hard, but the willingness is a hurdle. And part of that willingness hurdles is just the nuisance factor, and part of the willingness are the real fears of giving up privacy and the threats to one identity being stolen.

Where I have my doubts about this being effective is that while I cannot point you to one, I'm reasonably certain I have read more than one artilce on online gambling sites being quick to void winning bets by minors and concurrently refusing to refund loses. Now maybe that has changed as I don't know how long ago I read these. But to the degree that is still true that is pretty big reason to no solve this. And repeating myself that being told that it is solved is not the same as demonstrating that it is solved, or even extremely effective,

I don't need technical details, just what steps are involved in registering an account such that my age is verified. And how often must one deal with two factor authentication(or equivalent) to prove that it is the verified person making the bet.

I guess a related question is does an electronic payment have the mechanism to identify that the account belongs to an adult or a minor?

Anyway, off to Good Friday service so if this ends the discussion for now have an enjoyable holiday weekend - though this evening is certainly an annual bummer.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks. I'm sure it's not perfect, but online sports books have solved this problem. There are undoubtedly some that are savvy enough to skirt the law, but in my experience, with savvy people, they abide by the rules. I've seen it happen when tech savvy people would take a train to NJ to place their bets then ride back to NY.

It's not perfect, but it's extremely effective.

In other words, we clearly have the ability and tech expertise to inact this. That part is solved.

What's uncertain is if we have the will.

First I agree with most of your larger points here. That the technology isn't really that hard, but the willingness is a hurdle. And part of that willingness hurdles is just the nuisance factor, and part of the willingness are the real fears of giving up privacy and the threats to one identity being stolen.

Where I have my doubts about this being effective is that while I cannot point you to one, I'm reasonably certain I have read more than one artilce on online gambling sites being quick to void winning bets by minors and concurrently refusing to refund loses. Now maybe that has changed as I don't know how long ago I read these. But to the degree that is still true that is pretty big reason to no solve this. And repeating myself that being told that it is solved is not the same as demonstrating that it is solved, or even extremely effective,

I don't need technical details, just what steps are involved in registering an account such that my age is verified. And how often must one deal with two factor authentication(or equivalent) to prove that it is the verified person making the bet.

I guess a related question is does an electronic payment have the mechanism to identify that the account belongs to an adult or a minor?

Anyway, off to Good Friday service so if this ends the discussion for now have an enjoyable holiday weekend - though this evening is certainly an annual bummer.

Thanks. I'm sure there have been some cases of sports book sites mishandling the age requirement. By and large, it doesn't seem to be a significant issue from what I can see and hear. But something to watch for sure.

And same to you on having a nice weekend.