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Footballguy
He’s quite the athlete- very giftedJJ McCarthy casually putting up the 5th fastest 3-cone of the combine--at 219 lbs
He’s quite the athlete- very giftedJJ McCarthy casually putting up the 5th fastest 3-cone of the combine--at 219 lbs
Joe Milton's hardest throw on the laser: 62 mph
JJ McCarthy's hardest throw on the laser: 61 mph
JJ McCarthy casually putting up the 5th fastest 3-cone of the combine--at 219 lbs
Regarding his arm talent Mike Tice did a breakdown on him the night before the combine and highlighted his struggles throwing to the left and statistically it's a huge difference when the throws to the L vs R. Yesterday he had a few passes get away from him and I believe they are all throws to the left. That's would appear to be the major area he needs to improve and the issue seems to be something off with his feet placement
As much as I like Daniels, McCarthy might be the 3rd.Yeah. He looked good. Not many faults in what I saw. My guess is his performance (and Penix's) keeps NYG and ATL from trading up into the top 3. Both could be just as good as the top 3. You never know how these guys will work out. I also think their performances lessened the trade value of Fields.
If Chicago trades down from 1.1, I've heard rustling that they like McCarthy a lot. Could be interesting if they trade to, say, Vegas' pick.J.J. McCarthy says he had formal meetings with the following teams at the NFL Combine:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Chicago Bears
Washington Commanders
New England Patriots
NY Giants
Atlanta Falcons
Minnesota Vikings
Las Vegas Raiders
Denver Broncos
New Orleans Saints
Seattle Seahawks
If Chicago trades down from 1.1, I've heard rustling that they like McCarthy a lot. Could be interesting if they trade to, say, Vegas' pick.
One of the intrigues to me on McCarthy, other then him possibly toppling Maye or Daniels, is that it opens up the chance of a team trading up to #4 to get him which is actually what I would predict right now. Not a strong prediction, but that's my lean.Yeah. He looked good. Not many faults in what I saw. My guess is his performance (and Penix's) keeps NYG and ATL from trading up into the top 3. Both could be just as good as the top 3. You never know how these guys will work out. I also think their performances lessened the trade value of Fields.
You think a team is trading up to 4 for McCarthy. Put the pipe down.One of the intrigues to me on McCarthy, other then him possibly toppling Maye or Daniels, is that it opens up the chance of a team trading up to #4 to get him which is actually what I would predict right now. Not a strong prediction, but that's my lean.Yeah. He looked good. Not many faults in what I saw. My guess is his performance (and Penix's) keeps NYG and ATL from trading up into the top 3. Both could be just as good as the top 3. You never know how these guys will work out. I also think their performances lessened the trade value of Fields.
Which not to get off subject would open up MHJ being available to the Chargers, who I also think would prefer to trade back so not even sure they'd stick and pick but again that's another subject.
Regarding Penix I'm going to say I'll be very surprised if he's not sitting around available in round 2. His medicals seemingly checking out was great. That he threw the ball well yesterday was not a big deal, it's like a player teams know runs fast running fast. You give him a clean pocket he's really good but none of these things address the issue that when the pocket breaks down he turns into a pumpkin. This skillset is the primary reason why I believe Calebe Williams is so enamored. Now I kind of just described Goff so you never know, not saying it won't happen, saying I'll be surprised if he's not sitting around in round 2.
As for Fields I don't think he's ever had a market, Bears still waiting for one to develop, and feel strongly that report by Shefter a few weeks ago was done in favor to the Bears. If they had so much as a second on the table right now they'd jump it and if/when they can get that they are ready to move him. Eventually it might happen but I think will depend more on the teams who don't pick in the top 3, don't want to pay to move up to top 3 or to be in position to get McCarthy, and don't think they can sign Cousins or Baker. He's like plan C for QB needy teams and that may plan may ultimatley end being a second, but I'd say it's more what the Bears are trying to get then anything available to them now.
Yes and I'll put the pipe down if you'll agree to do some more research on the subject and in here with your October takes.You think a team is trading up to 4 for McCarthy. Put the pipe down.One of the intrigues to me on McCarthy, other then him possibly toppling Maye or Daniels, is that it opens up the chance of a team trading up to #4 to get him which is actually what I would predict right now. Not a strong prediction, but that's my lean.Yeah. He looked good. Not many faults in what I saw. My guess is his performance (and Penix's) keeps NYG and ATL from trading up into the top 3. Both could be just as good as the top 3. You never know how these guys will work out. I also think their performances lessened the trade value of Fields.
Which not to get off subject would open up MHJ being available to the Chargers, who I also think would prefer to trade back so not even sure they'd stick and pick but again that's another subject.
Regarding Penix I'm going to say I'll be very surprised if he's not sitting around available in round 2. His medicals seemingly checking out was great. That he threw the ball well yesterday was not a big deal, it's like a player teams know runs fast running fast. You give him a clean pocket he's really good but none of these things address the issue that when the pocket breaks down he turns into a pumpkin. This skillset is the primary reason why I believe Calebe Williams is so enamored. Now I kind of just described Goff so you never know, not saying it won't happen, saying I'll be surprised if he's not sitting around in round 2.
As for Fields I don't think he's ever had a market, Bears still waiting for one to develop, and feel strongly that report by Shefter a few weeks ago was done in favor to the Bears. If they had so much as a second on the table right now they'd jump it and if/when they can get that they are ready to move him. Eventually it might happen but I think will depend more on the teams who don't pick in the top 3, don't want to pay to move up to top 3 or to be in position to get McCarthy, and don't think they can sign Cousins or Baker. He's like plan C for QB needy teams and that may plan may ultimatley end being a second, but I'd say it's more what the Bears are trying to get then anything available to them now.
Going by what we think we might know right at this moment, which is the best we got, seems pretty obvious MIN/DEN at 11/12 is his floor.The serious problem with that is that he might not last until pick nine (their other pick) so they'd have to trade down but not so far down that they miss out. That's an art form right there.
Actually, I'd love to make a bet he goes at #8.
I would just say I could quote you several reputable national NFL writers as well as some beat writers for the team all from the past week who came back from the combine saying they are hearing that Arizona is welcome to trading back, with most of them citing the numerous team needs. Same thing for the Chargers for what it's worth.I just don’t see AZ wanting to trade out of taking MHJ
I think hes going in the top 10 as well. If both Minnesota and the Broncos are in the market, one of those teams is jumping up to get him.
The sharpest guy I know took up position on JJ +7500 to go 2nd overall about a month ago, and +12500 for him to go 1st overall. He's also a gigantic Michigan homer, but those lines have been completely smoked, particularly 2nd overall.Actually, I'd love to make a bet he goes at #8.
I don't think he makes it past the sixth pick, and I'm more inclined to agree with menobrown on this one. Fourth or fifth looks like a thing right now. And no, there's no pipe around.
Agreed. He probably goes around pick 7 or 8.I think hes going in the top 10 as well. If both Minnesota and the Broncos are in the market, one of those teams is jumping up to get him.
Agreed. He probably goes around pick 7 or 8.
If you decide to take the plunge make sure that the scoring system doesn't put QB's as the top 15 scorers in the league all but making it a 2QB league. The key to making sure a SF league is worthwhile is to make sure you don't have to start a QB at the SF to be competitive. Scoring should be the same across tiers for all positions.I'm learning more and more everyday about SF and have more respect for them today than I did this time last year. I still think they put too much importance on the QB position, thus the reason why I haven't taken the plunge.
Agreed. He probably goes around pick 7 or 8.
Clouds seem to be forming towards a draft-day surprise (or perhaps not by then), where Drake Maye is the one to fall.
1. Caleb
2. Daniels
3. JJM
The winds of change have been blowing for weeks, and seem to only be gaining force.
Agreed. He probably goes around pick 7 or 8.
Clouds seem to be forming towards a draft-day surprise (or perhaps not by then), where Drake Maye is the one to fall.
1. Caleb
2. Daniels
3. JJM
The winds of change have been blowing for weeks, and seem to only be gaining force.
Agreed. He probably goes around pick 7 or 8.
Clouds seem to be forming towards a draft-day surprise (or perhaps not by then), where Drake Maye is the one to fall.
1. Caleb
2. Daniels
3. JJM
The winds of change have been blowing for weeks, and seem to only be gaining force.
Say what? Nowhere is that hinted at. Most teams like Maye significantly more than Daniels for whatever reason. Some like him more than Caleb. WAS GM Peters apparently had a 5th round grade on Daniels a year ago. I think McCarthy likely passed Daniels at the combine. Which is no big deal. He won't fall far.
"so you'll hear drake maye this and drake may that but i've been told that's a bunch of cheese you shouldn't you take. daniels is qb2."
Two things I'll add:WOW
QBs the last two years, their QB rating on 3rd and long, and their percentage getting the first down.
That's as impressive a metric as I have seen this spring.
when he was asked to do something he was pretty great
I don't really understand the love for this guy, he's undersized and didn't will Michigan to a title. Wasn't asked to throw the ball a whole lot, I'm confused and I admit it
I would not want the team I consider my hometown team, i would not want them drafting him in the 1st round, feels very risky.
I would much rather have Penix and I think I've been upfront about that. I don't put Penix in the same category as Williams and Maye but after that it's wide open
DG, I saw he was 195, and I haven't seen much otherwise but put that aside.I don't really understand the love for this guy, he's undersized and didn't will Michigan to a title. Wasn't asked to throw the ball a whole lot, I'm confused and I admit it
I would not want the team I consider my hometown team, i would not want them drafting him in the 1st round, feels very risky.
I would much rather have Penix and I think I've been upfront about that. I don't put Penix in the same category as Williams and Maye but after that it's wide open
Undersized?
McCarthy is 6-2 1/2 219 lbs. Penix 6-3 212 lbs. Williams 6-1 215 lbs.
Also he is just 21, 3 years younger than Penix and way more mobile. McCarthy will put on at least 5 more lbs muscle.
Not sure what kind of pros any of these guys will be as it is always a crap shoot at QB but McCarthy has upside no doubt
It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
But that HC may win a title at Alabama...DG, I saw he was 195, and I haven't seen much otherwise but put that aside.I don't really understand the love for this guy, he's undersized and didn't will Michigan to a title. Wasn't asked to throw the ball a whole lot, I'm confused and I admit it
I would not want the team I consider my hometown team, i would not want them drafting him in the 1st round, feels very risky.
I would much rather have Penix and I think I've been upfront about that. I don't put Penix in the same category as Williams and Maye but after that it's wide open
Undersized?
McCarthy is 6-2 1/2 219 lbs. Penix 6-3 212 lbs. Williams 6-1 215 lbs.
Also he is just 21, 3 years younger than Penix and way more mobile. McCarthy will put on at least 5 more lbs muscle.
Not sure what kind of pros any of these guys will be as it is always a crap shoot at QB but McCarthy has upside no doubt
On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
Gino Toretta won 2 titles with the Miami Hurricanes, sometimes all you're getting is the CEO and that works occasionally but I have not seen enough to draft him
Penix is a much better prospect IMHO and did a ton more with a lot less...I don't even know who the HC was for Washington and don't care because they won't be back in the title game anytime soon.
McCarthy hurt his ankle in the PSU game. Could not plant to pass, could hardly walk after the game.DG, I saw he was 195, and I haven't seen much otherwise but put that aside.I don't really understand the love for this guy, he's undersized and didn't will Michigan to a title. Wasn't asked to throw the ball a whole lot, I'm confused and I admit it
I would not want the team I consider my hometown team, i would not want them drafting him in the 1st round, feels very risky.
I would much rather have Penix and I think I've been upfront about that. I don't put Penix in the same category as Williams and Maye but after that it's wide open
Undersized?
McCarthy is 6-2 1/2 219 lbs. Penix 6-3 212 lbs. Williams 6-1 215 lbs.
Also he is just 21, 3 years younger than Penix and way more mobile. McCarthy will put on at least 5 more lbs muscle.
Not sure what kind of pros any of these guys will be as it is always a crap shoot at QB but McCarthy has upside no doubt
On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
Gino Toretta won 2 titles with the Miami Hurricanes, sometimes all you're getting is the CEO and that works occasionally but I have not seen enough to draft him
Penix is a much better prospect IMHO and did a ton more with a lot less...I don't even know who the HC was for Washington and don't care because they won't be back in the title game anytime soon.
So let's not throw a single pass, he couldn't possibly help the cause, is that what you're saying?It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty
What I'm saying is that it's you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to that Michigan football game.So let's not throw a single pass, he couldn't possibly help the cause, is that what you're saying?It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty
Can't have it both ways, sorry...
I hate Michigan but they had a great team all over the field and McCarthy was part of the reason they were so good. I’m in the middle of the McCarthy argument. He has a strong arm, good size, and is plenty athletic enough to use his wheels to get out of trouble or move the chains. He also leaves some doubt on his passing ability because he didn’t have to throw the ball a ton to carry the team. It’s not his fault he didn’t throw the ball a ton and Harbaugh was not hiding him. Why throw the ball when you can rely on an outstanding defense and a terrific running game?What I'm saying is that it's you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to that Michigan football game.So let's not throw a single pass, he couldn't possibly help the cause, is that what you're saying?It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty
Can't have it both ways, sorry...
And your statement about McCarthy "not being 'allowed' to throw a single pass" is false. He threw a deep ball to A.J. Barner in the 4th quarter that drew a PI call in PSU territory.
McCarthy also ran six times for 31 yards in the second half on a bum ankle and was 7/8 passing in the first half, both of which "helped the cause" quite a bit.
I’m not totally sold on JJ but not for the reasons you are saying. The Washington HC just got the Bama job so he’s considered quite good. They don’t just hire anybody to replace Saban.DG, I saw he was 195, and I haven't seen much otherwise but put that aside.
On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
Gino Toretta won 2 titles with the Miami Hurricanes, sometimes all you're getting is the CEO and that works occasionally but I have not seen enough to draft him
Penix is a much better prospect IMHO and did a ton more with a lot less...I don't even know who the HC was for Washington and don't care because they won't be back in the title game anytime soon.
Spot on analysisI hate Michigan but they had a great team all over the field and McCarthy was part of the reason they were so good. I’m in the middle of the McCarthy argument. He has a strong arm, good size, and is plenty athletic enough to use his wheels to get out of trouble or move the chains. He also leaves some doubt on his passing ability because he didn’t have to throw the ball a ton to carry the team. It’s not his fault he didn’t throw the ball a ton and Harbaugh was not hiding him. Why throw the ball when you can rely on an outstanding defense and a terrific running game?
Teams are desperate for a top 10 NFL QB and this kid has the potential to be that QB. He could fail since he isn’t perfect as he seems to struggle throwing to the left but many teams are ready to call his name early in the draft.
Near as I can tell Michigan only trailed in the second half one time last year, against Alabama, and was tied with Ohio St. So obviously he did not need to pass much in the second half of games.
First half stats only here from last year:
McCarthy: 158/216, 1,996 yards, 14/3 TD to int. 169.4 rating.
Maye: 136/221,1,861 yards, 14/3 TD to int, 150.5 rating
Caleb: 160/226, 2,196 yards, 18/4, 175.2 rating
Daniels I won't even mention just to say his season last year blew everyone away and anyone who studied these QB's would say so much, there is no doubt he was the best QB last season, it's just about judging why that season was so much more spectacular then the previous seasons.
But McCarthy vs the other 2, I can't look at this and say that Michigan relied on him to win games any less then NC and USC relied on the other two. The major difference was simply McCarthy and Michigan built big first half leads. McCarthy only attempted 34 passes in the 4th quarter.
That he was every bit on par with these two in the first half, that he's above all of them 3rd and 4th down, I believe will lead teams to have extremely small concerns that he was not asked to carry the team because in fact he was as much as everyone but Daniels, he just carried them to such an early lead they were able to scale it back.
I truly believe this and think the biggest thing teams are asking themselves with him is not whether or not he can carry the load but simply does he have enough sizzle, enough flash enough upside to justify being a top 3-8 pick or will they view him as more of an Alex Smith type and someone teams feel more comfortable taking in the 8-12 range. I do believe the other QB's all flash a little more, their highlights are better and teams that get a little into scouting the flash might not be as high on him.
"Be careful not to choke on your own aspirations"What I'm saying is that it's you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to that Michigan football game.So let's not throw a single pass, he couldn't possibly help the cause, is that what you're saying?It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty
Can't have it both ways, sorry...
And your statement about McCarthy "not being 'allowed' to throw a single pass" is false. He threw a deep ball to A.J. Barner in the 4th quarter that drew a critical PI call in PSU territory.
McCarthy also ran six times for 31 yards in the second half on a bum ankle and was 7/8 passing in the first half, both of which "helped the cause" quite a bit.
I hate Michigan but they had a great team all over the field and McCarthy was part of the reason they were so good. I’m in the middle of the McCarthy argument. He has a strong arm, good size, and is plenty athletic enough to use his wheels to get out of trouble or move the chains. He also leaves some doubt on his passing ability because he didn’t have to throw the ball a ton to carry the team. It’s not his fault he didn’t throw the ball a ton and Harbaugh was not hiding him. Why throw the ball when you can rely on an outstanding defense and a terrific running game?What I'm saying is that it's you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to that Michigan football game.So let's not throw a single pass, he couldn't possibly help the cause, is that what you're saying?It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty
Can't have it both ways, sorry...
And your statement about McCarthy "not being 'allowed' to throw a single pass" is false. He threw a deep ball to A.J. Barner in the 4th quarter that drew a PI call in PSU territory.
McCarthy also ran six times for 31 yards in the second half on a bum ankle and was 7/8 passing in the first half, both of which "helped the cause" quite a bit.
Teams are desperate for a top 10 NFL QB and this kid has the potential to be that QB. He could fail since he isn’t perfect as he seems to struggle throwing to the left but many teams are ready to call his name early in the draft.
Near as I can tell Michigan only trailed in the second half one time last year, against Alabama, and was tied with Ohio St. So obviously he did not need to pass much in the second half of games.
First half stats only here from last year:
McCarthy: 158/216, 1,996 yards, 14/3 TD to int. 169.4 rating.
Maye: 136/221,1,861 yards, 14/3 TD to int, 150.5 rating
Caleb: 160/226, 2,196 yards, 18/4, 175.2 rating
Daniels I won't even mention just to say his season last year blew everyone away and anyone who studied these QB's would say so much, there is no doubt he was the best QB last season, it's just about judging why that season was so much more spectacular then the previous seasons.
But McCarthy vs the other 2, I can't look at this and say that Michigan relied on him to win games any less then NC and USC relied on the other two. The major difference was simply McCarthy and Michigan built big first half leads. McCarthy only attempted 34 passes in the 4th quarter.
That he was every bit on par with these two in the first half, that he's above all of them 3rd and 4th down, I believe will lead teams to have extremely small concerns that he was not asked to carry the team because in fact he was as much as everyone but Daniels, he just carried them to such an early lead they were able to scale it back.
I truly believe this and think the biggest thing teams are asking themselves with him is not whether or not he can carry the load but simply does he have enough sizzle, enough flash enough upside to justify being a top 3-8 pick or will they view him as more of an Alex Smith type and someone teams feel more comfortable taking in the 8-12 range. I do believe the other QB's all flash a little more, their highlights are better and teams that get a little into scouting the flash might not be as high on him.
In the NFL, you have to throw 35-40x a game routinely.
Why do you believe he was not allowed to throw. Is it your contention that Michigan was 'hiding' JJ McCarthy?On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
Forget the fact that he was barely able to stand on his own two feet on Monday of that week's game. He was hurting pretty bad and yet......It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty