The Commish
Footballguy
They pretty much were....just not for the uninformed reasons MOP thinks.Is it your contention that Michigan was 'hiding' JJ McCarthy?
They pretty much were....just not for the uninformed reasons MOP thinks.Is it your contention that Michigan was 'hiding' JJ McCarthy?
They pretty much were....just not for the uninformed reasons MOP thinks.Is it your contention that Michigan was 'hiding' JJ McCarthy?
Right side of the line was getting abused but even before that, it was rather obvious JJ wasn't himself. He seemed REALLY off from the start. Then a couple weeks later it was made known that he was basically immobile at the beginning of that week. Still don't know what the specific injury was though...at least I don't.They pretty much were....just not for the uninformed reasons MOP thinks.Is it your contention that Michigan was 'hiding' JJ McCarthy?
Yeah it's pretty well known they saw major protection issues early and loaded up the o-line to pound the rock so JJ wouldn't get killed.
Kurt Benkert
Finished another all 22 today. It was a deep dive on McCarthy.
He has the clutch gene. The game I watched (Bama) he was more accurate when the coverage was tighter - and missed a few when people were open. (I think coaching can fix the misses)
He let his feet get away from him in easy situations, but sat in there to deliver calmly when his team needed him the most late in the game.
He is more raw than I first thought - but MAINLY because of inconsistency with his feet and accuracy. Sometimes it’s textbook footwork, sometimes it’s frantic.
He also hasn’t had the volume the other QBs have had in their career and I believe in 1-2 years in an nfl system he will be caught up on the little nuances that aren’t in his game yet. Not to mention year 1 throughout practice and OTA’s, camp etc, he will get way more throws, and way more specific throws ball placement wise that will help the learning curve as a passer (speaking from experience here).
He’s less ready day 1 than I first had thought, but I also think he does some things naturally so well as a straight up gamer that you can’t necessarily teach.
At the end of the day, he knows how to win, he plays the best in the brightest moments (game on the line, 3rd downs, etc), and he can make plays with his feet that change the game.
I also want to add - throughout his college career he hasn’t been given nearly as many cheesy throws as the rest of college quarterbacks.
They did not abuse weird splits, throw RPO bubbles slant up and down the field, or anything like that.
You can actually watch his film and see how he could translate into an NFL scheme.
SleeperNFL
JJ McCarthy: of Passer Rating and Conversion Rate on 3rd down
( via @LuckIsMadeFF)
Kurt Benkert
3rd down… checks out
So does...You think a team is trading up to 4 for McCarthy. Put the pipe down.
Started watching him last night. Very impressed so far.
Dane Brugler had a fantastic observation that I never heard before, and made a ton of sense.
He said the physical stuff is not how teams set the ceiling, it's how they set the floor.
Justin Fields has a certain floor, because he can run like that. He does not have a higher ceiling than every other QB, because he can run like that. It's not the way it works.
Brugler said that ceiling is set by the intangibles, and teams decide ceiling when they meet the guy, and get him on the board, and try and guess if he's a special competitor, like Mahomes and Brady. How much does he love ball, is he a worker, all that stuff.
Anyway, it was brought up by Brugler because his point was, "Listen, if people are getting hyped over McCarthy before teams start meeting him, wait till they meet him. Because he's going to check all those boxes. They are going to like him more."
Some teams may be like you and prefer Penix over McCarthy. The current projected draft boards are fun to discuss but they are just guesses.I hate Michigan but they had a great team all over the field and McCarthy was part of the reason they were so good. I’m in the middle of the McCarthy argument. He has a strong arm, good size, and is plenty athletic enough to use his wheels to get out of trouble or move the chains. He also leaves some doubt on his passing ability because he didn’t have to throw the ball a ton to carry the team. It’s not his fault he didn’t throw the ball a ton and Harbaugh was not hiding him. Why throw the ball when you can rely on an outstanding defense and a terrific running game?What I'm saying is that it's you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to that Michigan football game.So let's not throw a single pass, he couldn't possibly help the cause, is that what you're saying?It's pretty obvious you don't watch Michigan football.On what planet if I were an NFL GM would I want to draft a QB who isn't allowed to throw a single pass for an entire Half+
That's quite damning to me and it makes me take a hard pass in the 1st Rd, I really don't see it with JJ.
On Planet Wolverine, it makes every bit of sense to break your opponents' will (Penn State) and pound them into submission...against their vaunted No.1 ranked rushing defense...right in front of their own quietly hushed "whiteout" fanbase...all the while missing your head coach (Harbaugh) who had just been suspended only hours before.
That game had absolutely nothing to do with J.J. McCarthy's skills as a quarterback.
p.s. Apologies to PSU fans, this was not meant to be gloating just explaining the rationale as I'm sure you'd do the same in the big house if given the oppty
Can't have it both ways, sorry...
And your statement about McCarthy "not being 'allowed' to throw a single pass" is false. He threw a deep ball to A.J. Barner in the 4th quarter that drew a PI call in PSU territory.
McCarthy also ran six times for 31 yards in the second half on a bum ankle and was 7/8 passing in the first half, both of which "helped the cause" quite a bit.
Teams are desperate for a top 10 NFL QB and this kid has the potential to be that QB. He could fail since he isn’t perfect as he seems to struggle throwing to the left but many teams are ready to call his name early in the draft.
Thanks, definitely agree on him having a ton of talent around him, that's maybe why I would be gun shy in the 1st Rd
In the NFL, you have to throw 35-40x a game routinely. I tend to agree with you that he's likely gonna go higher than maybe where he would 10-15 years ago.
Just because of the rookie QB contracts.
-Like Penix a lot more and he's going later.
OkYet Josh Rosen went #10 although every single team knew he didn't like football. Ryan Leaf went #2 even though every team knew he was clearly a complete idiot. Kyler Murray went #1 despite saying he'd rather play baseball. JaMarcus Russell. Aklii Smith. On and on and on. Some of these guys said straight up they didn't love football Fact is teams will use Go-Go Gadget length arms to reach for a QB
Dane Brugler had a fantastic observation that I never heard before, and made a ton of sense.
He said the physical stuff is not how teams set the ceiling, it's how they set the floor.
Justin Fields has a certain floor, because he can run like that. He does not have a higher ceiling than every other QB, because he can run like that. It's not the way it works.
Brugler said that ceiling is set by the intangibles, and teams decide ceiling when they meet the guy, and get him on the board, and try and guess if he's a special competitor, like Mahomes and Brady. How much does he love ball, is he a worker, all that stuff.
Anyway, it was brought up by Brugler because his point was, "Listen, if people are getting hyped over McCarthy before teams start meeting him, wait till they meet him. Because he's going to check all those boxes. They are going to like him more."
Yet Josh Rosen went #10 although every single team knew he didn't like football. Ryan Leaf went #2 even though every team knew he was clearly a complete idiot. Kyler Murray went #1 despite saying he'd rather play baseball. JaMarcus Russell. Aklii Smith. On and on and on. Some of these guys said straight up they didn't love football Fact is teams will use Go-Go Gadget length arms to reach for a QB.
I was. This is better, at least for the average NFL fan. There was no internet back then, and very little national interest in the draft. For instance, it was still being held on a Tuesday morning in 1983. Dr. Z wrote a mock draft for SI that used to appear near the last page. I don't think any other national mags covered it at all.This is the most intriguing QB draft ever, for me at least, who wasn't paying attention in 1983.
30 for 30 about that draft was so interestingI was. This is better, at least for the average NFL fan. There was no internet back then, and very little national interest in the draft. For instance, it was still being held on a Tuesday morning in 1983. Dr. Z wrote a mock draft for SI that used to appear near the last page. I don't think any other national mags covered it at all.This is the most intriguing QB draft ever, for me at least, who wasn't paying attention in 1983.
I lived at a boarding school in the middle of nowhere at the time. My access to TV was limited at best and I got the sports page the day after when the faculty was done with it.I was. This is better, at least for the average NFL fan. There was no internet back then, and very little national interest in the draft. For instance, it was still being held on a Tuesday morning in 1983. Dr. Z wrote a mock draft for SI that used to appear near the last page. I don't think any other national mags covered it at all.This is the most intriguing QB draft ever, for me at least, who wasn't paying attention in 1983.
Lance Zierlein
Had a discussion with a position coach for a team who doesn't need QB who couldn't stop gushing about JJ McCarthy and his timing, vision and intangibles. I'm telling you.... has a real shot of being QB3
Who's on this list from 1997 to 2016?Round 1 QBs since the 2017 Draft that dropped back 20 times per game or less in college (via PFF)
- Mitch Trubisky
- Trey Lance
- Mac Jones
- JJ McCarthy*
How do you pass on Harrison, Jr is you're the Cards? You just sent everyone elsewhere at WRReally starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
Really starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
Don't think Zona will trade out, they want Harrison and they need him. Chargers seem like a team willing to trade out, and a team can know they can trade to 5 and still get a QB if they want to.Really starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
WR is really deep and you're getting multiple picks to fill out the rest of your roster. I'd trade that pick to Minnesota in a heartbeat if I'm Arizona.How do you pass on Harrison, Jr is you're the Cards? You just sent everyone elsewhere at WRReally starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
Murray needs ay least 1 bonafide weapon.
You're talking Denver at 12 or Vegas at 13, that's a pretty steep drop and what will be left there for them is my 1st question.
Vikings have 11 and 23 to play with but that's a lot for QB No 4 off the board.
Penix is going 1st Rd for sure if this is 1-2-3-4 all QBs
I could see the Cards taking 11 and 23 for #4. Outside chance a big 3 WR is left at 11 or grab Brian Thomas later.How do you pass on Harrison, Jr is you're the Cards? You just sent everyone elsewhere at WRReally starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
Murray needs ay least 1 bonafide weapon.
You're talking Denver at 12 or Vegas at 13, that's a pretty steep drop and what will be left there for them is my 1st question.
Vikings have 11 and 23 to play with but that's a lot for QB No 4 off the board.
Penix is going 1st Rd for sure if this is 1-2-3-4 all QBs
I can also see a scenario where NE takes Harrison and then trades back into the first for Nix/Penix or drafts one of them at the top of round 2 with #34.Don't think Zona will trade out, they want Harrison and they need him. Chargers seem like a team willing to trade out, and a team can know they can trade to 5 and still get a QB if they want to.Really starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
THIS THIS THISI can also see a scenario where NE takes Harrison and then trades back into the first for Nix/Penix or drafts one of them at the top of round 2 with #34.Don't think Zona will trade out, they want Harrison and they need him. Chargers seem like a team willing to trade out, and a team can know they can trade to 5 and still get a QB if they want to.Really starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
I think Maye has bigger warts than JJ. After watching Anthony Richardson go #4 last year due to his "tools" after a terrible college career, I don't see why teams would hold JJ's college career against him after they see what he brings to the table.Patriots at No 3 now?
This guy has really flown up the projections/charts. I'm not going to swell on the negatives that i pointed out a couple weeks back and why I'd be hesitant.
Why not the Patriots at No 3? Replace a legend from Michigan with another Michigan prospect, would be quite a fan rejuvenator.
I could see the Cards taking 11 and 23 for #4. Outside chance a big 3 WR is left at 11 or grab Brian Thomas later.How do you pass on Harrison, Jr is you're the Cards? You just sent everyone elsewhere at WRReally starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
Murray needs ay least 1 bonafide weapon.
You're talking Denver at 12 or Vegas at 13, that's a pretty steep drop and what will be left there for them is my 1st question.
Vikings have 11 and 23 to play with but that's a lot for QB No 4 off the board.
Penix is going 1st Rd for sure if this is 1-2-3-4 all QBs
All of that said, I think McCarthy goes top 3.
Per ESPN Matt Miller“The latest leaguewide rumor has the Vikings trading to No. 4 overall, where the Cardinals are in a sweet spot to trade out with a quarterback-needy team.”
I think New England would be the worse place for JJ, he is not Brady and would have to contend with Brady’s legend.Patriots at No 3 now?
This guy has really flown up the projections/charts. I'm not going to swell on the negatives that i pointed out a couple weeks back and why I'd be hesitant.
Why not the Patriots at No 3? Replace a legend from Michigan with another Michigan prospect, would be quite a fan rejuvenator.
Vikings paying #11 and #23 is my guess. They've backed themselves into a corner, and unless they like Nix/Penix at #23 I think they'll be aggressive about moving up. You and I see Penix pretty differently, I think he's the QB6 in this class, and I'd be shocked if he went round 1 with his injury history.How do you pass on Harrison, Jr is you're the Cards? You just sent everyone elsewhere at WRReally starting to get the feeling QB's could go picks #1 thru #4, with Arizona being the trade down team.
I hate it, because I think the world of Harrison/Nabers, and I'm not super high on Daniels/McCarthy, but that's where I'm seeing the wind blowing.
Murray needs ay least 1 bonafide weapon.
You're talking Denver at 12 or Vegas at 13, that's a pretty steep drop and what will be left there for them is my 1st question.
Vikings have 11 and 23 to play with but that's a lot for QB No 4 off the board.
Penix is going 1st Rd for sure if this is 1-2-3-4 all QBs
I think having 3 1st round picks would have a higher appeal to them
They have Houston's pick from the Will Anderson deal last year.I think having 3 1st round picks would have a higher appeal to them
Where's the third coming from?
Lance ZierleinHad a discussion with a position coach for a team who doesn't need QB who couldn't stop gushing about JJ McCarthy and his timing, vision and intangibles. I'm telling you.... has a real shot of being QB3
Lance Zierlein
I asked this position coach specifically what he sees on tape that excites him. He went into a discussion about recognition of high/low concepts, and being able to get to the best reads quickly due to pre-snap recognition & pro style scheme. More detailed than this TBH
Troy Means
Just don’t see the hype with McCarthy.
Lance Zierlein
You know, I didn’t really either on tape. The more you watch, the more you start to see some things. However, there is a big divide between what public people see, and what NFL teams see. A big divide. Probably the most dark difference I’ve seen on a prospect over 10 years.
Blasphemy!This is only the 2nd year I've put an emphasis on watching QBs (least as much as I watch WRs and RBs), and I just don't see it from the fantasy angle. To me JJ looked at his best out of structure, in scramble drill type plays; which is a great trait not a lot of other QBs possess. But honestly looked average to below average most of the rest of the time. It was really hard with Michagans offense, and I could totally understand arguments that their game plan and play calling limited him in that system. But nearly anything over 10 yards seemed like a struggle except those digs/curls/slants and only when rolling out to the right side (the left was atrocious). He did hit some real nice deep shots down the middle when he needed to, but outside the numbers looked to miss more than he hit. This was more glaring in tight coverage too. Arm strength great, but fitting the ball into tighter windows seemed rough. And when employing that arm strength, it seemed to take a looonggg time to get through the wind up and release. At least when he was in the pocket; again, it almost seemed easier for him to do when on the run after a breakdown. Where you'd think the opposite would be the norm.
If his entire game were his highlights, I see the hype. And again, I get that he was limited in that system, so I can see people positing that the highlight tape should be longer. But as of now, for projecting fantasy production; I have him behind the other 3 QBs I've watched so far (Williams, Maye, Daniels). And I wouldn't be surprised to like Penix more when I get to him just based on what I know so far. Right now I see his favorable outcome as 2023 Baker tbh, which isn't bad at all. But not enough to have me looking to take him in the top 5 of SF drafts. And with the growing popularity of mocking him to the Patriots/Giants.... woof.
A question for the Michigan fans who've been watching him pre-combine; how much weight did he add to get to 219? Because in the cut ups I've been watching he looks pretty slender, and trying to find his weight previously I saw a lot of 203/204lb listings. Players can certainly bulk up, and hopefully what he added was good weight that whatever team drafts him can help him keep that weight on throughout the season. But he did not look that size to me at all in actual gameplay. To his credit, he did seem to PLAY above his weight class; not scared to take a hit and a few times sacrificed himself to make a good throw. So I wouldn't say his weight is a knock, on the flip side though I'd hesitate to throw out 219lbs as a plus for him when it seems pretty far off from his actual play weight during college.
Dane Brugler
I expect JJ McCarthy to be drafted somewhere in the top-12 picks.
Too early to rule anything out.
Six weeks ago, I was told this was a hot take.
Now, JJ McCarthy making it out of the top-8 feels like a longshot. The Vikings have the ammo for a trade up, but never count out Sean Payton.
Probably just me but odd I think. Going back and I could be mistaken but the combine was always said to be where measurement inflation hit reality. But here with McCarthy, Jonathon Brooks as well, players listed as being lighter than they actually are. I assume you're seeking an accurate weight because if it's a little over 200lbs, that seems like a lot of meat to have been added in a short period of time. This is of course, having done it naturally.A question for the Michigan fans who've been watching him pre-combine; how much weight did he add to get to 219? Because in the cut ups I've been watching he looks pretty slender, and trying to find his weight previously I saw a lot of 203/204lb listings
Bleacher Report’s Jordan Schultz reports Michigan QB J.J. McCarthy will meet with the Commanders on Thursday.
Gaining more steam every day, McCarthy also met with the Giants this week, touring the team’s facility and talking with front office officials and coaches. Washington’s meeting with McCarthy could be something of a smoke screen as they decide between Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels and the Vikings creep up the draft board in pursuit of a franchise QB to replace Kirk Cousins. Rotoworld’s Zachary Krueger recently profiled McCarthy.
No doubt this will be the public stance if they are unable to move up and need to go to plan E. I doubt it is that way behind the curtain though.I think there is very much a chance that the Vikings are done trading up and are targeting Penix or preferably Nix at #23.
Nix won't make it past Denver at 12Throwing it out there, but I think there is very much a chance that the Vikings are done trading up and are targeting Penix or preferably Nix at #23.
I do wonder if the Cardinals or especially the Chargers will want to pass on a top-end playmaker at WR that absolutely won't be there at #11.
McCarthy to the Giants might be an interesting fit.