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Defensive Line Tiers [early camp update 8/2] (1 Viewer)

Jerry Hughes and Marcel Dareus were caught drag racing. Time to see exactly how many defensive linemen the Bills have un-suspended week 1.

 
massraider said:
Jene Bramel said:
Updated DL tiers now live. Not much movement here as the majority of edge rushing talents in the draft will be classified as linebackers.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=14bramel_defensive_line_tiers_2

If you see a possible omission or table error, my love and appreciation in advance for noting it in this thread, by email or via Twitter. And thanks in advance for any discussion and feedback you've got for the thread.
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Dr., the above link leads to the LBs.
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Well, that's just crazy. The bloody URL says defensive line tiers...

Let me see if it's fixable.

 
I have a sneaky suspicion that Tank Carradine is flying under the radar. With Justin Smith aging, he could be the direct replacement and has the talent. If he's healed up well, along with the weight change, he could be a major force.

 
johnb said:
Thoughts on Branch?
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Not too much has changes since this earlier reply, but I should have him in the watch list section.

Jene Bramel said:
The Man With No Name said:
How about Andre Branch after his good 2nd half of season last year?
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May be some leftover fussiness because I was high on him before he was drafted, but I'm not a fan of Branch's fantasy upside. He didn't play as well as his numbers suggest and the depth chart is more crowded with Clemons and Bryant on board as previously trusted Bradley players in Seattle. I wouldn't roster him until he proves last year's numbers are sustainable.
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I'm fairly new to the IDP game but it really seems like Cam Heyward is being slept on. 1st round pick, groomed in the Steelers defense, excellent size and technique, and top 5 ppg over the last 10 games last year. What am I missing?

 
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valhallan said:
I'm fairly new to the IDP game but it really seems like Cam Heyward is being slept on. 1st round pick, groomed in the Steelers defense, excellent size and technique, and top 5 ppg over the last 10 games last year. What am I missing?
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Historical context, I guess.

In LeBeau's flavor of the 3-4, even the best DE he's had available over the years(so, Aaron Smith) was never really a "stud" for IDP purposes. Useful? For a few different years in his career, sure. Startable? Yes, but again, not anything dependable outside of a few seasons.

Heyward finished in a flurry. If you pro rated his production over the last half of the season he'd be a lower-cased JJ freaking Watt. I think most are skeptical he will maintain that level since he a) never came close to it before, and b) LeBeau's defense hasn't shown any proclivity to support that level of a player, like, ever.

Having said all that, I like Heyward's fit in that D. He's strong against the run, which can help prop up his totals when he isn't able to get to the QB/bat down passes. The Steelers aren't as married to running a strict "the 3-4 is our base D" anymore either, so he'll probably get more opportunities to rush than a typical LeBeau 5-tech would've in years past. It won't totally shock me if he continues to perform and produce, although not necessarily at the level he was at near the end of last year. By the same token, I don't blame anyone for being hesitant either. There really isn't any pattern to point to with him yet, and if he continues his pace from late '13 he will be a pretty big outlier for a LeBeau-coached DE.

 
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5-ish Finkle said:
valhallan said:
I'm fairly new to the IDP game but it really seems like Cam Heyward is being slept on. 1st round pick, groomed in the Steelers defense, excellent size and technique, and top 5 ppg over the last 10 games last year. What am I missing?
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Historical context, I guess.

In LeBeau's flavor of the 3-4, even the best DE he's had available over the years(so, Aaron Smith) was never really a "stud" for IDP purposes. Useful? For a few different years in his career, sure. Startable? Yes, but again, not anything dependable outside of a few seasons.

Heyward finished in a flurry. If you pro rated his production over the last half of the season he'd be a lower-cased JJ freaking Watt. I think most are skeptical he will maintain that level since he a) never came close to it before, and b) LeBeau's defense hasn't shown any proclivity to support that level of a player, like, ever.

Having said all that, I like Heyward's fit in that D. He's strong against the run, which can help prop up his totals when he isn't able to get to the QB/bat down passes. The Steelers aren't as married to running a strict "the 3-4 is our base D" anymore either, so he'll probably get more opportunities to rush than a typical LeBeau 5-tech would've in years past. It won't totally shock me if he continues to perform and produce, although not necessarily at the level he was at near the end of last year. By the same token, I don't blame anyone for being hesitant either. There really isn't any pattern to point to with him yet, and if he continues his pace from late '13 he will be a pretty big outlier for a LeBeau-coached DE.
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Thanks for the insight. I suppose the pedigree and 10-game sample size were enough to have me salivate, but the intricacies of schemes will take some time to learn. Regarding your point a) above, is it really that rare for a DE to develop in his 3rd year? Do they typically come out of the gate hot?

 
I doubt it's that rare for a DE to develop in his third year(just going off gut here. Don't have numbers in front of me to support/deny it). Like any young player, regardless of position, they more reps they get, the more opportunities they have to improve. I think part of that is what is at work with Heyward. He finally was given starter snaps. He also benefited from LeBeau going away from a strict 3-4 base package. As much passing as there is in the NFL now, they run a lot more Nickle and Heavy Nickle, to the point where it's likely almost being used as frequently as any other front they run(again, I don't have the data in front of me to know for sure, but the coaching staff there has claimed it's close to the case).

That said, it is more rare for a LeBeau-type "Fire Zone" 5-tech to be anything much more than an upside play for IDP. At least it has been to this point(and they practically never "come out hot" since Pittsburgh almost unilaterally sat rookies on D prior to 2013). Going back through my swiss cheese memory I can't think of anyone outside of Smith who did much of anything consistent for the Steelers at DE for fantasy purposes. Ray Seals had a year or so of usefulness, but that was under Capers(albeit a similar scheme).. Don't recall anyone lighting the world on fire at DE when LeBeau was HC in Cincy either. We've seen some of his disciples' schemes support a high end 5-tech(Calais Campbell springs immediately to mind), but Horton's scheme isn't a complete carbon copy of LeBeau's either.

It should be interesting to see if Heyward maintains the production. If he can, it'll be a bit of a paradigm shift for projecting LeBeau's 5-tech's if the team continues to roll out in as many 40 fronts as they did the past season/season-and-a-half.

 
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Jerry Hughes could be interesting as reports that he was unblockable during OTA's but then there is little news these days.

 
cr8f said:
Jerry Hughes could be interesting as reports that he was unblockable during OTA's but then there is little news these days.
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He's my favourite late sleeper.

Is basically being ignored (I picked him off waivers in my salary cap league for $5 minimum) and yet will provide DL3 value with possibility of DL2 upside.

 
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UKColt said:
cr8f said:
Jerry Hughes could be interesting as reports that he was unblockable during OTA's but then there is little news these days.
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He's my favourite late sleeper.

Is basically being ignored (I picked him off waivers in my salary cap league for $5 minimum) and yet will provide DL3 value with possibility of DL2 upside.
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Not so in my 16 team start 2 DL league, He pretty much went at high end DL2 price

 
Bojang0301 said:
What do you envision Malik Jackson's ceiling to be?
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Wolfe has been limited in practice I believe so Malik is getting a decent number of first team reps.

I personally like him as a solid DL3 with possible DL2 value. He's never going to be the top dog with Miller & Ware around, but if he sees the field enough I could foresee 35 tackles and 7-9 sacks just from clearing up.

 
msommer said:
UKColt said:
cr8f said:
Jerry Hughes could be interesting as reports that he was unblockable during OTA's but then there is little news these days.
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He's my favourite late sleeper.

Is basically being ignored (I picked him off waivers in my salary cap league for $5 minimum) and yet will provide DL3 value with possibility of DL2 upside.
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Not so in my 16 team start 2 DL league, He pretty much went at high end DL2 price
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Mine too.

 
Starting to get a little worried about Quanterus Smith. Although there have been some recent fluff pieces in the news about his recovery he's currently not even listed on Denver's depth chart, and from the box score I couldn't see that he actually played against the Seahawks.

What's up with Quan?

 
msommer said:
Starting to get a little worried about Quanterus Smith. Although there have been some recent fluff pieces in the news about his recovery he's currently not even listed on Denver's depth chart, and from the box score I couldn't see that he actually played against the Seahawks.

What's up with Quan?
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Ok, now he's listed as backing up Demarcus Ware (and more info on him having a good camp in both run support and pass rushing). I am more calm now, thank you

 
I'm actually surprised Ahtyba Rubin isn't getting any love either. It probably doesn't help that FBG's has him listed as a DE and the Browns depth chart has him listed as a Nose Tackle. John Norton projects Rubin to score 68.0 points in my scoring format which is a 0.5 points more than Haloti Ngata, so you know he has value as a DT unless Norton's projections are way different than Jene's.

 
Ugh... Sheldon Richardson totally absent from the stats. Had high hopes. Wish I would have kept him on my Taxi Squad. :bag:

 
The Raiders only ran like 14 times. He got some QB pressure from what I recall, but just wasn't in there in time to get sacks. Might be flukey day

 
I was pretty impressed watching Everson Griffen. He was tiered into the DL2 with upside group. I think he might be moving into low DL1 territory. Rams might not be a good measuring stick though.

 
usdemienm said:
I'm actually surprised Ahtyba Rubin isn't getting any love either. It probably doesn't help that FBG's has him listed as a DE and the Browns depth chart has him listed as a Nose Tackle. John Norton projects Rubin to score 68.0 points in my scoring format which is a 0.5 points more than Haloti Ngata, so you know he has value as a DT unless Norton's projections are way different than Jene's.
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I prefer Phil Taylor there.

 
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