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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (8 Viewers)

Dudes...don't kid yourselves...that was the best Mania, top to bottom, of ALL TIME.

  • Crazy ladder match
  • Incredible RKO spot
  • HHH w/ DX vs Sting w/ NWO
  • Paige's updated ring gear
  • Rusev riding a MFing tank
  • Ronda Rousey
  • Undertaker
  • Lesnar and Reigns worked the stiffest WWE match in a long, long time
 
  • Smile
Reactions: RBM
Raider Nation said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Raider Nation said:
You guys are watching wrestling?
Well it is the "official pro wrestling" thread :shrug:
HellToupee said:
:nerd:

YES

YES

YES
Explain something to me here, and I'm not judging. Just legitimately curious. What is the appeal for grown men in watching wrestling matches where the outcomes are scripted? I mean, I loved the WWF when I was 9 years old but I don't understand the continued attraction. I had to take the night off from Twitter because Wrestlemania was filling up my timeline. I find it fascinating.
Thank you for bringing this up. No one has ever mentioned this before and I did not realize the show was scripted. I'm wondering about Game of Thrones now. Crap, porn might not even be real. I am going to have to rethink my life.
And when you use the words "I'm not judging", that usually means that you are judging :shrug:

 
Man, a lot of sensitive sallys in here. I asked a simple question.

"We watch it because it's a soap opera and we like men with muscles." Got it. :shrug:

 
Raider Nation said:
Gawain said:
Raider Nation said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Raider Nation said:
You guys are watching wrestling?
Well it is the "official pro wrestling" thread :shrug:
HellToupee said:
:nerd:

YES

YES

YES
Explain something to me here, and I'm not judging. Just legitimately curious. What is the appeal for grown men in watching wrestling matches where the outcomes are scripted? I mean, I loved the WWF when I was 9 years old but I don't understand the continued attraction. I had to take the night off from Twitter because Wrestlemania was filling up my timeline. I find it fascinating.
Breaking Bad and the Sopranos were scripted, but I still wanted to see what happened next.

Suspension of disbelief is fairly powerful.
Pretty terrible analogy. I want to know the sporting events I'm watching are on the up and up. That goes for being pissed at players for throwing games.
No. It's actually a pretty legitimate analogy. It's entertainment, with athletes playing the parts. WWE hasn't pretended to be a real sport in over 40 years.
 
Smack Tripper said:
Raider Nation said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Raider Nation said:
You guys are watching wrestling?
Well it is the "official pro wrestling" thread :shrug:
HellToupee said:
:nerd:

YES

YES

YES
Explain something to me here, and I'm not judging. Just legitimately curious. What is the appeal for grown men in watching wrestling matches where the outcomes are scripted? I mean, I loved the WWF when I was 9 years old but I don't understand the continued attraction. I had to take the night off from Twitter because Wrestlemania was filling up my timeline. I find it fascinating.
Raiders fans dress like wrestlers and the team stinks. You know the outcome of those games and seasons before they start. Why do you watch?
:lmao:

An error occurredYou have reached your quota of positive votes for the day
 
Great show, but the entire Sting/HHH thing felt so out of place. WTF would nWo have Sting's back now after they spent years dismantling him? Especially when everyone knows nWo and DX are all boys :shrug: I know it's all BS anyway, but just felt un-needed :shrug:

 
Great show, but the entire Sting/HHH thing felt so out of place. WTF would nWo have Sting's back now after they spent years dismantling him? Especially when everyone knows nWo and DX are all boys :shrug: I know it's all BS anyway, but just felt un-needed :shrug:
Maybe they should have used Flair and Arn. Doesn't really matter, that whole match was just stroking Triple H and WWE's ego. "We won again!"

 
Dudes...don't kid yourselves...that was the best Mania, top to bottom, of ALL TIME.

  • Crazy ladder match
  • Incredible RKO spot
  • HHH w/ DX vs Sting w/ NWO
  • Paige's updated ring gear
  • Rusev riding a MFing tank
  • Ronda Rousey
  • Undertaker
  • Lesnar and Reigns worked the stiffest WWE match in a long, long time
I definitely think it's up there.

It's hard to really compare to others because the weekly product is such garbage and had no expectations for the event. Usually have a group of guys come over every year to watch but didn't this year because interest just wasnt there to sit through the thing. No one even mentioned the event until Lesnar resigned (Tuesday?)

 
Great show, but the entire Sting/HHH thing felt so out of place. WTF would nWo have Sting's back now after they spent years dismantling him? Especially when everyone knows nWo and DX are all boys :shrug: I know it's all BS anyway, but just felt un-needed :shrug:
:lmao: Yeah mentioned it during the event. It made zero sense but whatever. I thought the Wolfpac music would be ok since Sting was a part of it for a brief time. If Luger was in any condition to appear, that would have made some sense.

The match itself was blah. The appearances made it enjoyable IMO. Michaels appearance and kick on Sting was unexpected.

 
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I thought this was a pretty boring PPV overall... the matches weren't very good on the whole and there were plenty of questionable finishes tonight. Such as...

--The intercontinental title match was a silly spot fest that's already been done ad nauseum with no real backstory among the contestants. And Bryan winning the intercontinental title felt like a really ####ty consolation prize for all of the fans that wanted him to be in the main event. It was a bad sign for things to come on the night when he was the most over wrestler on the card and he was the winner of the first match. Nice job, Creative.

--Sting/HHH was rather lumbering. And I'm all for established veteran jobbing out to the younger guy in the vet's last match, but neither of these guys are young so did it really make sense for HHH to pull out his Golden Shovel here? Also, the nWo gimmick made no sense at all (as has already been pointed in here)... this match suddenly turned into an over-the-hill lumberjack match. It was embarrassing for everyone involved.

--Divas tag match. Did we ever get a reason why this match existed other than they needed some women on the card so that the Divas roster didn't go into revolt again on Twitter?

--Rusev/Cena. Superman Cena saves the day again. What pisses me off is seeing this silly angle developing between Rusev and Lana. Those two are great together. Why break something that works perfectly? Oh, wait... this is how WWE operates right now.

--Undertaker/Wyatt. Undertaker looked alright, but he was moving in molasses out there. I wanted to see him go next year... I'm now favoring him retiring altogether at this point. I was willing to give him a mulligan for last year's match against Lesnar on account of the concussion he suffered early in the match. This year he just sucked. I guess Punk should be given a lot of credit for carrying Taker in that WM 30 match.

--Lesnar/Reigns. The match itself pretty much sucked technically, but I'll give them credit for telling an interesting story. The Rollins swerve at the end was out of the blue, but it is going to suck if Rollins has to turn face... he was easily the best heel on the roster. There would be a big void if he's now cheered like a good guy.

 
Raider Nation said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Raider Nation said:
You guys are watching wrestling?
Well it is the "official pro wrestling" thread :shrug:
HellToupee said:
:nerd:

YES

YES

YES
Explain something to me here, and I'm not judging. Just legitimately curious. What is the appeal for grown men in watching wrestling matches where the outcomes are scripted? I mean, I loved the WWF when I was 9 years old but I don't understand the continued attraction. I had to take the night off from Twitter because Wrestlemania was filling up my timeline. I find it fascinating.
Soap operas for guys.

Eye Candy in the form of scantily clad ladies.

If you have kids you usually get back into it in some form or another.

It harkens you back to your childhood days. Seeing Ric Flair, Hogan, Sting......that still resonates with kid me.

For all intents and purposes....these guys are great at athletic/physical feats. Sure, a cynic would say they're more dancer than athlete......but they do bring it....and they do put their body in the line. Reigns v. Lesnar last night was as good as any movie/television show beat down I've ever seen.

Shock value. More so in the past...during the WWF Attitude era....but still.

Good characters. More so in the past....but these guys do create interesting and funny characters.

Comedic value. At times it can be funny.

Gotta watch something.

 
I thought this was a pretty boring PPV overall... the matches weren't very good on the whole and there were plenty of questionable finishes tonight. Such as...

--The intercontinental title match was a silly spot fest that's already been done ad nauseum with no real backstory among the contestants. And Bryan winning the intercontinental title felt like a really ####ty consolation prize for all of the fans that wanted him to be in the main event. It was a bad sign for things to come on the night when he was the most over wrestler on the card and he was the winner of the first match. Nice job, Creative.

--Sting/HHH was rather lumbering. And I'm all for established veteran jobbing out to the younger guy in the vet's last match, but neither of these guys are young so did it really make sense for HHH to pull out his Golden Shovel here? Also, the nWo gimmick made no sense at all (as has already been pointed in here)... this match suddenly turned into an over-the-hill lumberjack match. It was embarrassing for everyone involved.

--Divas tag match. Did we ever get a reason why this match existed other than they needed some women on the card so that the Divas roster didn't go into revolt again on Twitter?

--Rusev/Cena. Superman Cena saves the day again. What pisses me off is seeing this silly angle developing between Rusev and Lana. Those two are great together. Why break something that works perfectly? Oh, wait... this is how WWE operates right now.

--Undertaker/Wyatt. Undertaker looked alright, but he was moving in molasses out there. I wanted to see him go next year... I'm now favoring him retiring altogether at this point. I was willing to give him a mulligan for last year's match against Lesnar on account of the concussion he suffered early in the match. This year he just sucked. I guess Punk should be given a lot of credit for carrying Taker in that WM 30 match.

--Lesnar/Reigns. The match itself pretty much sucked technically, but I'll give them credit for telling an interesting story. The Rollins swerve at the end was out of the blue, but it is going to suck if Rollins has to turn face... he was easily the best heel on the roster. There would be a big void if he's now cheered like a good guy.
Agree totally on rusev. And him attacking Lana is 100 percent inconsistent with his character that we've seen over the past year.

The angle also is kind of being done withn Nattie and Kidd, the "losing is YOUR fault" schtick

 
I thought this was a pretty boring PPV overall... the matches weren't very good on the whole and there were plenty of questionable finishes tonight. Such as...

--The intercontinental title match was a silly spot fest that's already been done ad nauseum with no real backstory among the contestants. And Bryan winning the intercontinental title felt like a really ####ty consolation prize for all of the fans that wanted him to be in the main event. It was a bad sign for things to come on the night when he was the most over wrestler on the card and he was the winner of the first match. Nice job, Creative.

--Sting/HHH was rather lumbering. And I'm all for established veteran jobbing out to the younger guy in the vet's last match, but neither of these guys are young so did it really make sense for HHH to pull out his Golden Shovel here? Also, the nWo gimmick made no sense at all (as has already been pointed in here)... this match suddenly turned into an over-the-hill lumberjack match. It was embarrassing for everyone involved.

--Divas tag match. Did we ever get a reason why this match existed other than they needed some women on the card so that the Divas roster didn't go into revolt again on Twitter?

--Rusev/Cena. Superman Cena saves the day again. What pisses me off is seeing this silly angle developing between Rusev and Lana. Those two are great together. Why break something that works perfectly? Oh, wait... this is how WWE operates right now.

--Undertaker/Wyatt. Undertaker looked alright, but he was moving in molasses out there. I wanted to see him go next year... I'm now favoring him retiring altogether at this point. I was willing to give him a mulligan for last year's match against Lesnar on account of the concussion he suffered early in the match. This year he just sucked. I guess Punk should be given a lot of credit for carrying Taker in that WM 30 match.

--Lesnar/Reigns. The match itself pretty much sucked technically, but I'll give them credit for telling an interesting story. The Rollins swerve at the end was out of the blue, but it is going to suck if Rollins has to turn face... he was easily the best heel on the roster. There would be a big void if he's now cheered like a good guy.
Sorry, man...this all screams of someone who doesn't WANT to like the show. Just stop watching.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: RBM
Raider Nation said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Raider Nation said:
You guys are watching wrestling?
Well it is the "official pro wrestling" thread :shrug:
HellToupee said:
:nerd:

YES

YES

YES
Explain something to me here, and I'm not judging. Just legitimately curious. What is the appeal for grown men in watching wrestling matches where the outcomes are scripted? I mean, I loved the WWF when I was 9 years old but I don't understand the continued attraction. I had to take the night off from Twitter because Wrestlemania was filling up my timeline. I find it fascinating.
Soap operas for guys.

Eye Candy in the form of scantily clad ladies.

If you have kids you usually get back into it in some form or another.

It harkens you back to your childhood days. Seeing Ric Flair, Hogan, Sting......that still resonates with kid me.

For all intents and purposes....these guys are great at athletic/physical feats. Sure, a cynic would say they're more dancer than athlete......but they do bring it....and they do put their body in the line. Reigns v. Lesnar last night was as good as any movie/television show beat down I've ever seen.

Shock value. More so in the past...during the WWF Attitude era....but still.

Good characters. More so in the past....but these guys do create interesting and funny characters.

Comedic value. At times it can be funny.

Gotta watch something.
Yeah - TV in general is horrible. As dumb as wrestling is, it's better than 99% of what's out there.

 
Dudes...don't kid yourselves...that was the best Mania, top to bottom, of ALL TIME.

  • Crazy ladder match
  • Incredible RKO spot
  • HHH w/ DX vs Sting w/ NWO
  • Paige's updated ring gear
  • Rusev riding a MFing tank
  • Ronda Rousey
  • Undertaker
  • Lesnar and Reigns worked the stiffest WWE match in a long, long time
I don't know if it was the best of all time, but it was really, really, good. Nearly perfectly booked IMO.

I was fine with Big Show winning the battle royal. Nearly everyone else was a jobber and this is a nice hat tip to a good career. And a huge man winning a battle royal just looks right. I get that everyone loves Mizdow, but him getting over in a comedy bit doesn't mean they should strap a rocket ship to his back and blast him right to the top. They advanced that storyline, which was good.

Fatal 4 way tag watch was fun with the right team winning.

Ladder match was very good. I cringed a little with all those headbutts just because I'm kind of conditioned to fear head injury with all that's happened in the NFL and with Chris Benoit. In it's heyday the IC title was the "workers belt", so if they're hoping to return it to it's former glory, what better man than Daniel Bryan to hold it.

Rollins vs Orton was a great match with an amazing finish.

HHH vs Sting was a hot mess, but somehow it worked. Very entertaining. I was bummed that Sting lost, but I get it. They billed this as WCW vs WWE and they weren't going to put over the WCW icon at WWE's signature event. And HHH is still an attraction, so it made sense to put him over.

I only half watched the women's tag match.

Loved Cena winning, but I seem to be his only adult fan. You're not going to have USA lose to the Russians to wrestlemania. They way it ended with Lana being somewhat to blame didn't take any heat off of Rusev, IMO.

Good to see Taker get a win again. I don't think the loss hurts Wyatt any. Just being in that match elevates him. And Takers win boosts Lesnar even more, if that's possible.

The Rock segment went on about 10 minutes too long. He really likes to milk the crowd adoration for all it's worth.

The main event was great. I hope people don't lose sight of how great Reigns looked in that match again. He's come a long way. I wish people kicked out of the F5 with a little less regularity, however. One kickout of a finisher in a match is more than enough. But great ending. Most people seem elated that Rollins walked out with the belt. I'm not sure it should feel good when the hated heel wins, though. :unsure:

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?

 
who all from DX was there?

that was when i was really into wrestling, now i just pop in here to see what the latest is and watch an occasional Raw

sometimes bringing out old dudes strikes me as lame, no matter how much i used to like them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I thought this was a pretty boring PPV overall... the matches weren't very good on the whole and there were plenty of questionable finishes tonight. Such as...

--The intercontinental title match was a silly spot fest that's already been done ad nauseum with no real backstory among the contestants. And Bryan winning the intercontinental title felt like a really ####ty consolation prize for all of the fans that wanted him to be in the main event. It was a bad sign for things to come on the night when he was the most over wrestler on the card and he was the winner of the first match. Nice job, Creative.

--Sting/HHH was rather lumbering. And I'm all for established veteran jobbing out to the younger guy in the vet's last match, but neither of these guys are young so did it really make sense for HHH to pull out his Golden Shovel here? Also, the nWo gimmick made no sense at all (as has already been pointed in here)... this match suddenly turned into an over-the-hill lumberjack match. It was embarrassing for everyone involved.

--Divas tag match. Did we ever get a reason why this match existed other than they needed some women on the card so that the Divas roster didn't go into revolt again on Twitter?

--Rusev/Cena. Superman Cena saves the day again. What pisses me off is seeing this silly angle developing between Rusev and Lana. Those two are great together. Why break something that works perfectly? Oh, wait... this is how WWE operates right now.

--Undertaker/Wyatt. Undertaker looked alright, but he was moving in molasses out there. I wanted to see him go next year... I'm now favoring him retiring altogether at this point. I was willing to give him a mulligan for last year's match against Lesnar on account of the concussion he suffered early in the match. This year he just sucked. I guess Punk should be given a lot of credit for carrying Taker in that WM 30 match.

--Lesnar/Reigns. The match itself pretty much sucked technically, but I'll give them credit for telling an interesting story. The Rollins swerve at the end was out of the blue, but it is going to suck if Rollins has to turn face... he was easily the best heel on the roster. There would be a big void if he's now cheered like a good guy.
Sorry, man...this all screams of someone who doesn't WANT to like the show. Just stop watching.
You have it backwards... I watched the show and have stuck with the product over the last few months because I wanted to like it. That doesn't mean I am still forced to come to that conclusion.

 
who all from DX was there?

that was when i was really into wrestling, now i just pop in here to see what the latest is and watch an occasional Raw

sometimes bringing out old dudes strikes me as lame, no matter how much i used to like them.
It was initially X-Pac and New Age Outlaws. HBK showed up out of the blue a few minutes later. They basically had everyone there except Chyna and Rick Rude (RIP).

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!

 
Also, it sounds like there's a lot of concern about Bryan's long term health. I don't think they want to put their eggs in that basket until they're more confident his neck is going to hold up long term. After hearing him on Jericho's podcast, it didn't really instill me with a lot of confidence that he's 100%.

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
What did Reigns show us last night other than he can smile while getting suplexed? The Rocky III beating was a good story that they told, but it didn't show any great talent from Reigns. Did he do anything offensively the whole night other than the super punch and spear?

I'm all for elevating the IC title, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will actually do that. And I don't think it has to be elevated (nor should it be) by guys that are already main event talent. It should be done by guys still working their way up the card.

Also, the label of the "worker's belt" has always annoyed me. The logical extension of this then is that it's OK for the world title to go to a guy that can't work... Which is why the fans were so pissed it was going to be handed to Reigns to begin with.

 
My :2cents: on the WM main event.

WWE wins by escaping the embarrassment of having someone as passionately hated as Reigns winning. Having Rollins cash in mid-match means they didn't have to hype a 3-way dance, and it added juice to the match as a surprise.

Reigns escapes without having the burden of trying to carry the WWE title as he develops and being a potential card killer. He can now get more upper-card matches, develop as ring work, and can now cast off the "illusion" of being the chosen one.

Brock get a positive rub - even as a nominal heel - because he gets to play the "I didn't get pinned" card. He can go off, make movies, play marbles, whatever and then comeback later on, which leads me to...

Rollins vs. Reigns as your next big feud that goes through early summer. Rollins sneaks in, cashes in his MOTB contract and pins Reigns. Rollins is now over as the sneaky heel and can generate all the heat and feud buzz since Reigns has the bad kind no wrestler wants. They can feud back and forth until Brock comes back to claim what he believes is rightly his. Rollins/Lesnar becomes the main event at SS.

It's worth exactly what you paid for it...maybe less. :shrug:

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
IWC argument #3: If the matches aren't booked with the results I want, it can't be any good.

 
Aside from them needing to extend that Rock segment for the sun to go down.....I liked pretty much the whole thing. Plus, that Rock thing is nothing more than sewing the seeds for 32.

 
I'm all for elevating the IC title, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will actually do that. And I don't think it has to be elevated (nor should it be) by guys that are already main event talent. It should be done by guys still working their way up the card.
As a prime example of elevating a title, look no further than the IWGP Intercontinental title. That belt was defended as the main event at Wrestle Kingdom on January 4th, 2014. This explains how it was done:

However, after Shinsuke Nakamura captured the title from Hirooki Goto on July 22, 2012,[20] and started his first reign, which would last for 313 days, the title began gaining importance. Nakamura also made the title international again, defending it in both the United States and Mexico.[21][22] On May 31, 2013, while on tour with Mexican promotion Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL), Nakamura lost the title to La Sombra, marking the first time the title had changed hands outside of NJPW.[23][24] Nakamura ended up regaining the title back in NJPW two months later on July 20 and in the process became the first two-time holder of the title.[25] Nakamura continued elevating the IWGP Intercontinental Championship, culminating on it receiving top billing over the IWGP Heavyweight Championship at NJPW's biggest annual event, Wrestle Kingdom 8 in Tokyo Dome on January 4, 2014,[26][27] where former multi-time IWGP Heavyweight Champion and arguably NJPW's biggest star, Hiroshi Tanahashi, became the new champion.[28][29] Afterwards, Tokyo Sports wrote that the Intercontinental and Heavyweight Championship were now equals, while Dave Meltzer wrote that Nakamura and Tanahashi made the Intercontinental Championship feel like "the real world title belt"
Now, you don't have to go to this extreme to elevate a title, but if you back to the NWA of the 80s, even Tully's NWA TV title was made to feel special and not just another match.

It's about exposure, and having a champion that can carry it, and the desire to have it defended regularly.

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
What did Reigns show us last night other than he can smile while getting suplexed? The Rocky III beating was a good story that they told, but it didn't show any great talent from Reigns. Did he do anything offensively the whole night other than the super punch and spear?

I'm all for elevating the IC title, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will actually do that. And I don't think it has to be elevated (nor should it be) by guys that are already main event talent. It should be done by guys still working their way up the card.

Also, the label of the "worker's belt" has always annoyed me. The logical extension of this then is that it's OK for the world title to go to a guy that can't work... Which is why the fans were so pissed it was going to be handed to Reigns to begin with.
:goodposting:

While the superman punches and spear looked good, that's literally all he did. That's it. Brock carried the match.

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
IWC argument #3: If the matches aren't booked with the results I want, it can't be any good.
Never said that either. I've given WWE a tremendously long rope over the past year and didn't hesitate to say when they did stuff well. Heck, I've never even been that upset with the liberal use of Kane and Big Show. But questionable booking is questionable booking.

 
Yeah, that was some zinger.
Not really a zinger. You DO know what the outcome is, I assume you're a Raider fan, they haven't had a winning season since 2002. They've had 10 ten loss seasons since then.

And the fans do embrace a certain measure of pagentry.

Wrestling feels far less predetermined than the fate of the Raiders games.

I assume you would tell me you grew up rooting for the Raiders.

Most of us grew up watching this and probably have stayed connected based on that which we grew up with.

 
Also, it sounds like there's a lot of concern about Bryan's long term health. I don't think they want to put their eggs in that basket until they're more confident his neck is going to hold up long term. After hearing him on Jericho's podcast, it didn't really instill me with a lot of confidence that he's 100%.
He did nothing in that match last night. Easily the least of all 7 guys.

 
Let's see...

Brock used about 5-6 total moves (suplexes, knees, strikes, F-5), but he "carried" the match and is awesome and everyone loves his greatness. (PS: he is great...one of the best, most important wrestlers EVER)

The point of a match is to damage your opponent enough that you can keep their shoulders down for 3 consecutive seconds. Reigns spent ten minutes being beaten within an inch of his life. He somehow managed to damage Brock with the ring post, and he saw a chance to capitalize. Why would he do anything besides high impact moves that he knows and bunch them together as quickly as possible so Brock cannot recover?

That is psychology, folks.

 
Here's how the Belt Breakdown should be:

WORLD - Only defended at PPV's....the way they did Lesnar this year should be the way the World Belt is used.

U.S. - The poor man's belt.................Should be the House Show belt that's defended regularly at non TV shows to give those fans something. It should change hands at those Dark Shows just to give those events the potential to feel special

I.C..........Is by default the World Title of the television shows and the I.C. holder should generally be seen as the Number One contender. He doesn't need to defend it every televised show or even week.....but defending it should feel relatively special.

To that....I'd add two or three more belts just to give singles wrestlers something to do.....

TELEVISION TITLE...................Should be defended every show. This is the one you flip-flop on and don't take too seriously.

CRUSIERWEIGHT.....................It's obvious that fans like smaller, more technical guys.....so bring this one back. Nothing wrong with Itami's defending this regularly. This could also be your "defacto" traveling belt...it could go down to NXT occasionally or even to Japan (if that's something that still happens).

I'd like to see the Hardcore Belt back as I'd love seeing pinfalls in the bathroom, movie theatres, backstage etc. etc.....but I don't think they want to go to that.

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
What did Reigns show us last night other than he can smile while getting suplexed? The Rocky III beating was a good story that they told, but it didn't show any great talent from Reigns. Did he do anything offensively the whole night other than the super punch and spear?

I'm all for elevating the IC title, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will actually do that. And I don't think it has to be elevated (nor should it be) by guys that are already main event talent. It should be done by guys still working their way up the card.

Also, the label of the "worker's belt" has always annoyed me. The logical extension of this then is that it's OK for the world title to go to a guy that can't work... Which is why the fans were so pissed it was going to be handed to Reigns to begin with.
:goodposting:

While the superman punches and spear looked good, that's literally all he did. That's it. Brock carried the match.
Brock doesn't do many moves either.

Roman was damn impressive last night. The guy signed off on getting thrown around like a rag doll for a good story. Took some stiff punishment and kept coming back. Marks like to trash his cardio, but to come back after all that and hit some big offense. I can't say enough how impressed I was with him. He's definitely ready.

 
who all from DX was there?

that was when i was really into wrestling, now i just pop in here to see what the latest is and watch an occasional Raw

sometimes bringing out old dudes strikes me as lame, no matter how much i used to like them.
It was initially X-Pac and New Age Outlaws. HBK showed up out of the blue a few minutes later. They basically had everyone there except Chyna and Rick Rude (RIP).
MR ###?!!?!?!?!

lolol

the road dogg?

sounds awesome though it may have sucked

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
What did Reigns show us last night other than he can smile while getting suplexed? The Rocky III beating was a good story that they told, but it didn't show any great talent from Reigns. Did he do anything offensively the whole night other than the super punch and spear?

I'm all for elevating the IC title, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will actually do that. And I don't think it has to be elevated (nor should it be) by guys that are already main event talent. It should be done by guys still working their way up the card.

Also, the label of the "worker's belt" has always annoyed me. The logical extension of this then is that it's OK for the world title to go to a guy that can't work... Which is why the fans were so pissed it was going to be handed to Reigns to begin with.
:goodposting:

While the superman punches and spear looked good, that's literally all he did. That's it. Brock carried the match.
Wasn't Lesnar pretty much just one suplex after another? Nobody expected this one to have a lot of headlocks, arm bars and moss covered three handled family gruduzles. ;)

 
Why would Rollins need to turn face?
I don't think they are trying to turn Rollins face... They just didn't realize how pissed people were to have Reigns shoved in their face and Rollins was their botched attempt at making up for it. When your fan base wants anyone but Reigns to win the belt, then you create the extra problem of your top two heels suddenly being cheered as saviors.

How on earth did they screw this up so badly? Your top face in the company (Bryan) gets wasted in the opening match and wins the JV belt. The guy they want to be the top face ends up getting booed vociferously in the main event. And your best heels get the loudest pops all show (excluding Bryan).

Are they also going to blame this on the mean Philly crowd too?
Here's the thing, though. Reigns IS ready. He was incredible last night, and WWE was right all along. If you aren't willing to cheer for him after what he did last night, you're just being a jerk about it because he's not Daniel Bryan.

Rollins won in the most slimy, undeserving way possible. That's 100% heel.

IWC argument #1: elevate the the IC title!

IWC argument #2: but not on Daniel Bryan though, I like him too much!
IWC argument #3: If the matches aren't booked with the results I want, it can't be any good.
Never said that either. I've given WWE a tremendously long rope over the past year and didn't hesitate to say when they did stuff well. Heck, I've never even been that upset with the liberal use of Kane and Big Show. But questionable booking is questionable booking.
Fair enough. This show seems to have drawn universal praise among casual and hardcore fans alike, but you're certainly entitled to have a different opinion. :)

 
who all from DX was there?

that was when i was really into wrestling, now i just pop in here to see what the latest is and watch an occasional Raw

sometimes bringing out old dudes strikes me as lame, no matter how much i used to like them.
It was initially X-Pac and New Age Outlaws. HBK showed up out of the blue a few minutes later. They basically had everyone there except Chyna and Rick Rude (RIP).
MR ###?!!?!?!?!

lolol

the road dogg?

sounds awesome though it may have sucked
I'm still confused by Rick Rude being part of DX. I watched DX a lot as a kid and I don't remember Rude being in the group. :confused:

 
Let's see...

Brock used about 5-6 total moves (suplexes, knees, strikes, F-5), but he "carried" the match and is awesome and everyone loves his greatness. (PS: he is great...one of the best, most important wrestlers EVER)

The point of a match is to damage your opponent enough that you can keep their shoulders down for 3 consecutive seconds. Reigns spent ten minutes being beaten within an inch of his life. He somehow managed to damage Brock with the ring post, and he saw a chance to capitalize. Why would he do anything besides high impact moves that he knows and bunch them together as quickly as possible so Brock cannot recover?

That is psychology, folks.
:goodposting:

I think some people focus too much on the moves and holds and miss the story that's being told. Lesnar was utterly dominant for most of the match. When Reigns finally had a chance to get in some offense he had to hit Lesnar with his big moves. He couldn't mess around. His facial expression when he finally had an opening was fantastic. Kind of a "OMG I have a chance here! I'm gonna do it!" Great stuff from both men.

 
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