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Sell Vincent Jackson now! (1 Viewer)

gradin123

Footballguy
Imo, coming off the bye he is sell high candidate.

The problem as I see is Mike Glennon sucks really badly. In his first game as starter he attempted 11 passes to Vincent Jackson but completed only 2 for 27 yards.

Jackson is a great receiver but Glennon may be worse than Gabbert and right now I still think Jackson is preceived as a WR1, Imo the remainder of the year he will be no better than a WR3.

.

 
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I don't know if people really appreciate how bad Glennon is yet.

They have good matchup this week vs the Eagles and he has had his bye and is healthy. Some people still like Jackson. You could wait to see if he has a good game vs the Eagles as almost all receivers do but if he doesn't Jackson's stock will drop even further. My hunch is won't even post good numbers this week.

 
I think the majority of fantasy owners knew Glennon was bad before he was ever drafted. I'm not really seeing a big uptick in Glennon "believers" now that he's got his shot on a team whose entire FO and coaching staff is going down in flames.

I think we're seeing the appropriate amount of pessimism regarding Glennon.

 
I think the majority of fantasy owners knew Glennon was bad before he was ever drafted. I'm not really seeing a big uptick in Glennon "believers" now that he's got his shot on a team whose entire FO and coaching staff is going down in flames.

I think we're seeing the appropriate amount of pessimism regarding Glennon.
Ok maybe it is biased opinion based on what I saw in a fantasy league where the Jackson owner turned down an offer straight up for Knowshon Moreno

 
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11 targets is still 11 targets. Do you expect to only get 2 receptions per week if he continues to get 11 targets?

Losing Freeman definitely hurts VJax, that is indisputable, but "sell at all costs?", that I'm not quite sure about.

1. You'd be selling while his value is down (just switched to a rookie - 2 receptions in most recent game)

2. He's one of only a few players who has already had his bye.

Unless you get a really solid offer, I'd hold.

 
I think the majority of fantasy owners knew Glennon was bad before he was ever drafted. I'm not really seeing a big uptick in Glennon "believers" now that he's got his shot on a team whose entire FO and coaching staff is going down in flames.

I think we're seeing the appropriate amount of pessimism regarding Glennon.
Ok maybe it is biased opinion based on what I saw in a fantasy league where the Jackson owner turned down an offer straight up for Knowshon Moreno
Yeah... if I owned Jackson I'd probably buy that up fast.

 
Yeah, I think if you could get Moreno or similar, you have to do that.

The thing about VJAX is he has always, even in the best of times, ran hot and cold. So he always looks good in aggregate but can kill you (or save you) on a weekly basis, much like Chris Johnson. But last year was his year and he had career numbers almost across the board.

When I see that and the fact that he is now 30, I start looking to sell in dynasty, for sure, because even if he kept up the production, you just can't get the return an older player warrants once they creep into that 31 or so range.

So, I think he has been a sell high since the end of last year and this situation just reinforces that thought. He will probably still have good weeks but right now, you have a talented but streaky player who will probably be even more streaky with a rookie QB. It would take a gambler mentality to embrace that.

 
Warning alternative view here... Lets start with glennon. Granted he may not be very good but has only one game and can only get better. Say what you want about him but scouts agree he has a big arm and can push the ball downfield which is VJ's game. More importantly, lets remember something, Freeman reverted back to his rookie year this year. He wasnt reading defenses and contiues to overthrow gian tWRs like VJax still. Freeman was ranked 33 by PFF out of 32 starting QBs while with the bucs. Point is Glennon cant be worse.

Now VJax value is down clearly but you have some positives this week. First a great matchup and Boykin may be out or banged up. VJax will be the focus by Glennon this week so targets will be there. VJax still drops too many passes but he is going to get his. Second coming off a bye you have to inagine these guys spent a lot of time getting on the same page this past week. Third and fourth they only have VJ and MWill. Thats it. No TE viable even with crabtree, and nothing in the slot. Plus they need points to keep up with Philly this week and as crazy as it sounds, a win this week actually gives them hope to get back in the hunt in the very weak NFC. The bottom line is this. He may not be great longterm but if you have plans to sell him, this is the week to wait for and then deal him. I would even go so far as saying start him over a lot of other #2 Wars in lineups this week.

 
Saying a bad player "can only get better" is really not true. At least, it hasn't been for many bad players.

So it's possible that Glennon isn't as bad as many of us think...but if he is, there's no gaurantee he'll get better.

 
As a Bucs fan I can say you are incorrect. You clearly did not see just how bad Freeman was. He had an agenda and it was to get out of tampa at the expense of his "teammates." 0.0 character guy!

 
As a Bucs fan I can say you are incorrect. You clearly did not see just how bad Freeman was. He had an agenda and it was to get out of tampa at the expense of his "teammates." 0.0 character guy!
He was out of Tampa at the end of the season. He would have made a whole lot more money if he stayed the starter in Tampa and played well for the rest of this season. The idea that Freeman was bad on purpose in order get the Bucs to release him a few months before he would be a free agent is ridiculous.

 
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As a Bucs fan I can say you are incorrect. You clearly did not see just how bad Freeman was. He had an agenda and it was to get out of tampa at the expense of his "teammates." 0.0 character guy!
He was out of Tampa at the end of the season. He would have made a whole lot more money if he stayed the starter in Tampa and played well for the rest of this season. The idea that Freeman was bad on purpose in order get the Bucs to release him a few months before he would be a free agent is ridiculous.
Couldn't disagree with you more. Sometimes you just have to suck it up even if you don't agree with your boss.

Freeman is a petulant, immature child. He has one of the best RB's in the league, a great WR group which can stretch the field, and a strong up-and-coming defense. Nothing but good things to expect from his team.

He bailed ... He has played horribly from the beginning, and this is nothing but a reflection of his personality in defiance to Schiano. Whether conscious or sub-conscious. And he thinks that Minnesota is a better situation ... Good grief ... Minnesota has one of the worst Defenses in the NFL, now WR crew ...

 
Guys, how much Freeman sucks has little to do with how much Glennon also sucks. For VJ owners this was just out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 
I bought Vincent Jackson coming into the bye. (he is my new WR3, 12 team standard)

No. Hold. They are going to be down big in a lot of games. He will rack up garbage time stats.
What makes you think Tampa will be down big in a lot of games?

 
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First, Jackson's game against Arizona he was questionable to play and he was up against Patrick Peterson.

Next, Freeman was playing terrible anyway.

Third, Glennon might stink, but his strength is his arm so he will get the ball down the field to Jackson.

Those are my observations from a disgruntled Bucs fan. I think the Bucs are on track for about 3-13, but Jackson could still put up solid wr #2 stats.

 
I bought Vincent Jackson coming into the bye. (he is my new WR3, 12 team standard)

No. Hold. They are going to be down big in a lot of games. He will rack up garbage time stats.
What makes you think Tampa will be down big in a lot of games?
Conservative offense that can't move the ball against base defense. Rookie QB making mistakes. Coach seems to have lost the team. At some point the defense is going to be a) worn out from being on the field 60% of games, or b) apathetic due to an inept offense.

This season has disaster written all over it. They are already 0-4. It's only a matter of time before they start getting down early in games, and then are in catch up mode vs prevent defense. This game against the Eagles will be the first example.

Hold Jackson.

 
No one thought Flacco was a good idea so I am willing to let this play out a bit. But I am very concerned....and think there will be very few people willing to deal for him in my league.

 
I have VJax on one team as my WR3/4. I have Dez, Cobb, Blackmon, and VJax. I could sell him, but he'll like be a Flex play for me most weeks, and you can certainly do worse than VJax as your Flex.

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
I'll add: Can Glennon be any worse than Freeman has been? If anything, teams will load up the box now to stop Martin which could open things up for VJax and Williams. It's not like Freeman was lighting the world on fire through the first 3 games.

 
I think the majority of fantasy owners knew Glennon was bad before he was ever drafted. I'm not really seeing a big uptick in Glennon "believers" now that he's got his shot on a team whose entire FO and coaching staff is going down in flames.

I think we're seeing the appropriate amount of pessimism regarding Glennon.
Ok maybe it is biased opinion based on what I saw in a fantasy league where the Jackson owner turned down an offer straight up for Knowshon Moreno
I assume you are this anonymous Moreno owner?

 
I have him and I'm confused to what I feel about him. I play in a non ppr--and I also have antonio brown, pierre garcon, amendola. I start 2 wr's a week and I use a third as a flex. The scary thing is that I don't know if I should play Vjax over any of those guys this week. I was thinking about plugging him in over brown or amendola--but it's just hard for me to be confident about him. However, if he's ever going to have a big game--this is the right matchup--so the confusion continues.

 
I don't see how you can't hold onto him this week. Watch the game with Philly, not just look at the stats afterward (as I think VJax will bring in a decent haul) and determine if there really is nothing to see in TB any longer.

 
11 targets is still 11 targets. Do you expect to only get 2 receptions per week if he continues to get 11 targets?

Losing Freeman definitely hurts VJax, that is indisputable, but "sell at all costs?", that I'm not quite sure about.

1. You'd be selling while his value is down (just switched to a rookie - 2 receptions in most recent game)

2. He's one of only a few players who has already had his bye.

Unless you get a really solid offer, I'd hold.
:goodposting:

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.
Not all QB's who play in the NFL legitimately have an arm.

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.
Not all QB's who play in the NFL legitimately have an arm.
Not true at all... they all have arms. It'd be fairly impressive if a amputee could play QB in the NFL.

Kidding aside, the gap between elite talent and 3rd string talent usually isn't that big. Sometimes it's a difference of decimal points on measurements and skillsets. Think of it this way, elite RB speed is about 4.3 40 speed. And plodding RB speed is about 4.6 40 speed. A difference of .3, you or me would be lucky to run a 6.0 40...

 
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I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.
Not all QB's who play in the NFL legitimately have an arm.
Not true at all... they all have arms. It'd be fairly impressive if a amputee could play QB in the NFL.

Kidding aside, the gap between elite talent and 3rd string talent usually isn't that big. Sometimes it's a difference of decimal points on measurements and skillsets. Think of it this way, elite RB speed is about 4.3 40 speed. And plodding RB speed is about 4.6 40 speed. A difference of .3, you or me would be lucky to run a 6.0 40...
I'll be sure to remember that when the topic turns to Alex Smith's arm strength, or QB's like Ponder, or Caleb Hanie, or any of the QB's started by Arizona next year.

I think the gap between them and Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Brady is pretty big.

 
I think the exact opposite of this. I think going from Freeman to Glennon is an upgrade for V-Jax. Some posters have tried to mention it before, but it bears repeating, Josh Freeman was playing at a level so low, that Glennon can't help but be an upgrade. People were talking about Gabbert being bad, but he was still plying better than freeman, who either quit on the team, or has some psychological issues.

I think V-Jax is a great buy-low right now, if you can get him for WR3 prices. There's still top-15 upside here in my opinion.

 
If he keeps getting targetted like he did last week, the yards/TD's will come.

And I also disagree with the premise of the thread. This is the exact wrong time to sell VJax.

 
Traded him going into the bye for mjd. He was my wr4 and my rbs are putrid. Mjd doesn't exactly help that. But I've got Peyton so I figured I have some leeway to take a chance.

 
Let's let him go off against Philly before selling high. Patience, Grasshoppa
Yea, for reals. His value can't get much lower with a crappy outing vs Philly. Since his value has no where to go but up, wait a game or two before selling/dumping him.

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.
Not all QB's who play in the NFL legitimately have an arm.
Not true at all... they all have arms. It'd be fairly impressive if a amputee could play QB in the NFL.

Kidding aside, the gap between elite talent and 3rd string talent usually isn't that big. Sometimes it's a difference of decimal points on measurements and skillsets. Think of it this way, elite RB speed is about 4.3 40 speed. And plodding RB speed is about 4.6 40 speed. A difference of .3, you or me would be lucky to run a 6.0 40...
I'll be sure to remember that when the topic turns to Alex Smith's arm strength, or QB's like Ponder, or Caleb Hanie, or any of the QB's started by Arizona next year.

I think the gap between them and Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Brady is pretty big.
Alex Smith isn't the same type of QB as those others though. He's more of a Chad Pennington type, he doesn't have a big arm but he's extremely accurate under 20 yards. Probably more accurate than those other QBs you mention. Either way, you can try to argue the point but anyone who has enough talent to make it into the NFL at all is above the curve in terms of physical ability. When you consider the typical human vs these guys the gaps are extremely small. Which is the point I'm trying to make...

When it comes to effectiveness in the NFL, the difference between 4.3 and 4.6 on a 40 time is usually massive. But when it comes to just basic human gaps, that's extremely small. The actual talent gaps aren't that big in the NFL. Someone like Alex Smith could go play in college right now for any unranked team and probably immediately make them one of the top offenses in the country. Just because he has a weak arm doesn't make him bad. We're talking about the difference between being accurate throwing the ball 40 yards vs throwing the ball 50 yards. Either way, they're all WELL ahead of the average human curve.

Same thing goes for every sport, there's a large difference between a 95 mph fastball and a 89 mph fastball. One is considered elite the other is considered average. But in the grand scheme of things, only 1-2% of the general population can probably come anywhere close to a 89 mph fastball.

 
I would be willing to bet he finishes in top 3 WRs this weekend. Glennon's big arm plus a long bye week to get on the same page with eachother plus the birds' highly questionable secondary is a recipe for success. 7-8 receptions, 120+ yards and 2tds is my thinking.i If you really are down on him, wait till he torches the Eagles this week and then sell high. I personally am excited for the QB change and think he's a strong WR1 moving forward.

 
Let's let him go off against Philly before selling high. Patience, Grasshoppa
Yea, for reals. His value can't get much lower with a crappy outing vs Philly. Since his value has no where to go but up, wait a game or two before selling/dumping him.
Flip side of that coin is if he has a rather uninspiring day.

If he finishes with 5/67/0, you've lost 50% of what value remains today because people wil say "Man, if he can't get it done against Philly, then he can't get it done."

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.
Not all QB's who play in the NFL legitimately have an arm.
Not true at all... they all have arms. It'd be fairly impressive if a amputee could play QB in the NFL.

Kidding aside, the gap between elite talent and 3rd string talent usually isn't that big. Sometimes it's a difference of decimal points on measurements and skillsets. Think of it this way, elite RB speed is about 4.3 40 speed. And plodding RB speed is about 4.6 40 speed. A difference of .3, you or me would be lucky to run a 6.0 40...
I'll be sure to remember that when the topic turns to Alex Smith's arm strength, or QB's like Ponder, or Caleb Hanie, or any of the QB's started by Arizona next year.

I think the gap between them and Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Brady is pretty big.
Alex Smith isn't the same type of QB as those others though. He's more of a Chad Pennington type, he doesn't have a big arm but he's extremely accurate under 20 yards. Probably more accurate than those other QBs you mention. Either way, you can try to argue the point but anyone who has enough talent to make it into the NFL at all is above the curve in terms of physical ability. When you consider the typical human vs these guys the gaps are extremely small. Which is the point I'm trying to make...

When it comes to effectiveness in the NFL, the difference between 4.3 and 4.6 on a 40 time is usually massive. But when it comes to just basic human gaps, that's extremely small. The actual talent gaps aren't that big in the NFL. Someone like Alex Smith could go play in college right now for any unranked team and probably immediately make them one of the top offenses in the country. Just because he has a weak arm doesn't make him bad. We're talking about the difference between being accurate throwing the ball 40 yards vs throwing the ball 50 yards. Either way, they're all WELL ahead of the average human curve.

Same thing goes for every sport, there's a large difference between a 95 mph fastball and a 89 mph fastball. One is considered elite the other is considered average. But in the grand scheme of things, only 1-2% of the general population can probably come anywhere close to a 89 mph fastball.
I don't understand how a discussion of NFL players, comparing NFL players to NFL players, has anything to do with what you or I or our neighbor could do.

 
Starting Vincent this week.
Same.

I didn't buy him (paid a legitimate price, too) a week ago to sit on the bench.

But he's my WR3 (behind Demaryius and Welker) in a standard 12 teamer where my WR3 slot was previously a revolving door of Britt, V.Brown, and Givens.

 
In his first game as starter he attempted 11 passes to Vincent Jackson but completed only 2 for 27 yards.
You do realize he was covered by one of the top CBs in the game? AZ D is no joke. Bucs players value is pretty low right now, so I would be buying.

Look how much trouble Carolina just had with AZ. Cam, Deangelo, and Steve Smith are also good buy low guys coming off of that game.

 
I'll also add a contrarian view. What if Glennon isn't as bad as predicted? He has the physical tools, what if he starts to get the mental aspects of the game? He's sitting on the wire in my dynasty league and I think, "Hmmmm, he's a rookie QB given the reins to an offense with a pretty good set of weapons. I heard he doesn't have the mental aspects of the game down, but has physical attributes which may help him excel. He's cheap (only cost is dropping another guy), so why not take a shot?"
THey ALL have the physical tools. 90% of the game is from the neck up, as they say. Rookie QB success like RG III and Luck and Wilson are exceptions, not norms, especially when we aren't talking baout Glennon like he was a top QB prospect.
Not all QB's who play in the NFL legitimately have an arm.
Not true at all... they all have arms. It'd be fairly impressive if a amputee could play QB in the NFL.

Kidding aside, the gap between elite talent and 3rd string talent usually isn't that big. Sometimes it's a difference of decimal points on measurements and skillsets. Think of it this way, elite RB speed is about 4.3 40 speed. And plodding RB speed is about 4.6 40 speed. A difference of .3, you or me would be lucky to run a 6.0 40...
4.3 to 4.6 is a 7% difference. 7% is huge in any sport.

 

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