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I agree that he's bulkier and more powerful than McFadden. McFadden probably has an edge in sheer speed. If you want to call him a thicker, slightly slower McFadden or a slightly more athletic/elusive Knile Davis then I wouldn't argue too much. I don't know if that's going to translate to top NFL results.
I think I have already in this thread, done much more than make a one line claim(its all on page 4). My opinion is just that and I have no problem standing behind it. Given what has already been posted, I don't there is a need for a final post to confirm what I have already stated. What can I learn? That my opinion is not always right. Right now I have Gurley as the 5th best RB prospect. We have a college football season and NFL combine for my position to change.
I have Gurley has #2 behind Shady McCoy. Not because i'm that crazy about Gurley(although i'm very high on him) but because the dynasty landscape is that bad.
Davis, Funchess, Parker, Karlos, Clement, Hackenberg for me if it's not a super flex.
Again, neither Karlos Williams' highlights or his stats suggest to me that he has vision/instinct issues, so I don't agree with you to that point. Watch this run to see an example of jump cut where Karlos cuts across a defense. The "he played safety" point was only in reference as to why he didn't make a splash as an RB earlier in his career, because he wasn't even playing the position.
That's the only time i've seen him use his agility to his advantage. It's the only time he cut back across the defense, most of the time it's bounce outside or run fast through the hole.
He's big and agile. He has drop issues, but Mike Evans had some of the same ones his redshirt freshman season...albeit not as bad.
Here's a run where he makes a nice sharp cut. And he shows some decent hip flexibility on this run considering how fast he's moving. Still, even though he doesn't exhibit great agility, he doesn't have to to still be a great NFL RB imo. The NFL does not require a RB to have a juking running style like LeSean McCoy to be a successful RB. You can be a 1-cut-and-go RB and be successful in the NFL, and if you have elite size and burst I'll argue you can be a very successful RB in the NFL.
I agree with this. So far what I see is someone who is fast and powerful but needs to learn how to play RB, understandably. He reminds me of that Jaugernaut guy on X-Men.
Your first clip shows some movement, the 2nd he looks very stiff...which is my and others contentions about Williams. He lacks lateral/vision/agility.
There were 27 RBs drafted in the first round from 2004-2014. The average weight of those players is 217 pounds. The average BMI is 30.3.
Being ignorant to the numbers doesn't mean that there are no numbers. If I add up the height-weight of every center in the NBA and find that the average is 6'11" 260 pounds, I can pretty safely say that a 6'9" 245 pound center is shorter and lighter than the typical NBA center. That's all very straightforward. I think the problem is that when people read these statements, a lot of them automatically extend it to say something it doesn't. And then they become defensive. For example, if I say that a typical NBA center is 6'11" 260, they'll interpret that as saying that every center needs to be that size. Obviously that's not the case. Plenty of good ones don't fit the mold. They can be shorter, taller, lighter, or heavier.
You can add up the numbers for every RB drafted in the past decade and I'm guessing it will be very similar. If his 6'1" 213 measurement is accurate, he's lighter and leaner than the average RB. Therefore the people saying he's light and lean are completely justified. This is not rocket science here.
The topic of Melvin Gordon's height/weight/build would be less controversial if people took the time to actually watch him play or look at pictures.
I often disagree with people like ZWK and wdcrob on specific players. We might use the same metrics and draw different conclusions about players. At the same time, I know that their opinions come from a place of thorough analysis. They've looked at the numbers in depth and they can back up their opinions with a lot of objective support.
I actually agree with that, but ironically it's a strike against Melvin Gordon since an objective look at him suggests he's relatively top-heavy. I threw out the Reggie Bush comparison for that reason. Two guys with big upper bodies who nevertheless have below average overall bulk and functional running strength.
I do my best to ignore the back and forth that you and EBF have, but I gotta agree with EBF when it comes to the same strawman argument you seem to use a lot; you seem to have the inclination that when someone disagrees with you that for some reason implies they don't watch players play. I assure you that's not the case anywhere near how frequent you think it is.
Right. And when someone disagrees with EBF, they're unaware of the numbers. Did you just totally ignore one of his posts toward jurb26 above.Get real.
As I mentioned in my post you're quoting, I do try my best to ignore the hogwash talk in here. Just happened to catch the first line of that post of yours and thought a comment was worth making.
The first line of that post is just sarcastic mockery of the last paragraph of the EBF post that I quoted.
Charles was actually 5'11" 200 pounds at the combine. Right now Gordon is listed at 6'1" 213. That's good for a BMI of 28.1.
How much difference will the extra ten pounds make in the NFL? I'd say not much considering neither Gordon nor Charles will offer much in the way off power. Running backs in their vein make their living by forcing defender whiffs rather than churning out extra yards. I don't see the same change of direction from Gordon, so I hesitate to comp him to Charles. Even if they have similar style, speed, and burst, Gordon lacks that one characteristic which makes Charles special. The extra 10 pounds doesn't make up for it.
How conveniently misleading it is that you leave out LeSean McCoy and Matt Forte.And we are still labeling Gordon straight-line. Did you totally ignore the video posted? Guys like DeMarco Murray and Knile Davis are straight-line and can't make the kind of cuts or show the shiftiness that Gordon has.
To me the difference in those runs is the ability of Gordon to read the hole early enough to not NEED that dramatic cut. It doesn't mean he can't make it. Gordon began his adjustment to that on coming defender before he even hand the handoff. Notice the hard plant on his left foot, outside foot which is correct mind you, as he's taking the handoff. The early adjustment allowed him a smoother transition to get outside his T and the outreaching guy he was engaged with. I don't think he makes that secondary hole without his great recognition and burst to that lane early. Had he waited the dramatic cut would have reduced his angle and compromised the run. Abdulah was in more of an open field scenario and needed the dramatic cut because he was running at greater speed.cloppbeast said:
