What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Amari Cooper v Kevin White - Dynasty (1 Viewer)

Soulfly3

Footballguy
Alright guys, imo, these are the two creams of the crop of this year's WR class.

Without obviously knowing their destinations in the NFL, who would you take first between the two in a dynasty league? Why?

Looking forward to some good conversation to come home from work to, and Ill add my own input afterwards.

(note:there is 1-2 more wrs that can also be in this discussion, but i assume these guys will be the consensus 1/2 come draft time at WR)

 
I'd take White, but the real fantasy draft next year will be incredibly dependent on who their QB is so that's hard to write off.

 
Id take Cooper

and IN before the dyno honks come in here and pimp FUNCHESS
Funchess might be a TE anyway but if he's not and is a WR I still agree that White and Cooper are the cream of the WR crop.

Without knowing landing spot I'd take Cooper but as was pointed out in post #2 I'd say landing spot/QB can alter that.

 
This is a Watkins vs. OBJ types last year type debate for me. Cooper has dominated since freshman year (banged up last year) White is just emerging, we've seen this story before and over-thought it before. Going with Cooper pretty easily.

 
If his head is on straight and he shows well in the interview process at the combine, no one in this draft compares to DGB. That being said, he has some dings so considering that risk, I'd take Cooper as the first WR. But, DGB is the true "cream of the crop" on talent alone.

 
There's still a large chance DGB will return to Oklahoma next year.

Also, what about Stefon Diggs? Number one WR in college football as far as skills.

Totally just kidding but as a Maryland alum I wish it was true. And his QBs are incredibly awful.

 
White's a JUCO transfer who didn't play much last year, while Cooper's been on the national stage as part of the nation's premier program for three years now. White could be the love child of Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson and he would lose this poll. Branding, FTW.

No idea who I like better yet, but if I had to guess I think I'll like the additional info we get on White more than I will Cooper's.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
White's a JUCO transfer who didn't play much last year, while Cooper's been on the national stage as part of the nation's premier program for three years now. White could be the love child of Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson and he would lose this poll. Branding, FTW.

No idea who I like better yet, but if I had to guess I think I'll like the additional info we get on White more than I will Cooper's.
This is kind of in line with my thoughts. I like Cooper better by a good margin. I think he's a similar talent to Watkins. Right or wrong, a good portion of that is built in comfort level of Cooper as a player because we've seen him for 3 years. On top of that, Cooper plays in an offense that allows for more NFL style routes and plays. This also helps build comfort when evaluating him as a player IMO. It doesn't mean White can't do those same things, but there is ease in seeing it.
 
steelers1080 said:
I'd take White, but the real fantasy draft next year will be incredibly dependent on who their QB is so that's hard to write off.
Sammy Watkins disagrees.
So you're saying he did as well with Manuel as with Orton?

3 - 18 - 2 - 9 Under Manuel

9 - 3 - 24 - 22 Under Orton, and the 3 was against Revis which causes most stars to play poorly. I'd say it makes a difference.

Imagine Cooper going to Tampa and White going to New England. Who would you take? Well, if they swapped teams you'd probably swap your choice.

 
Just so happens in our developmental draft yesterday Cooper and White went 1 & 2. (several RBs were hold overs from last year so Gurley, Gordon were not avail).

I had them ranked Cooper 1 and White 2 for the reasons above. Cooper has done it more visibly for a few more years. He seems to have been the top ranked wr from the start of the season and has done nothing to hurt that where White is now making a name for himself. By the draft it could go either way who is taken first.

fyi, I now have White and am happy with it...

 
This discussion needs more discussion.

I mean, this is Watkins v Evans v2.0

White will be the 2nd drafted wr, but be the better and more dominant one, imo

 
Oct, I guess some folks didnt know who Kevin White was....

Now in Feb, he's more household name in the draft world.

Post combine this could get very juicy.

 
I mean, this is Watkins v Evans v2.0
And neither one was OBJ.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if some teams have another WR in the mix at the top. Especially considering that the top of this class is considered to be a bit less impressive than last year.

 
I mean, this is Watkins v Evans v2.0
And neither one was OBJ.
Call me crazy here... But OBJ doesn't really surpass Mike Evans in my book. Call them 1a and 1b in whatever order you like...

But I'll almost always snap the 6'5" guy who can absolutely dominate the End Zone with even putridity at QB...

We basically just saw Evans' floor.

Absolutely love both tho, and either on my team has me smiling

 
Good topic. Kevin White isn't quite the physical presence that Evans is but he could be very good.

 
Good topic. Kevin White isn't quite the physical presence that Evans is but he could be very good.
6'5" 230... aint noone touching him in this year's class.

These guys are all below Evans and OBJ... and on par w Watkins in terms of how Id want them.

Evans

OBJ

Watkins

White

Cooper

eta: DGB depending on landing spot, will make a serious run as best WR of the class. but he needs a rock for a coach.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why no mention of Parker in this discussion? Everything I've read said Parker and White are neck and neck. If we are now saying there's not much difference between White and Cooper, why isn't Parker even in the conversation?

 
Why no mention of Parker in this discussion? Everything I've read said Parker and White are neck and neck. If we are now saying there's not much difference between White and Cooper, why isn't Parker even in the conversation?
Great question. More than likely it's because the OP motives for the thread were trade related? :)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU said:
Soulfly3 said:
I started the thread in October. Bumped it for pre draft discussion
I was just joking. What about Whie vs Parker, who do you like?
I didnt get to see enough of Parker this season to say definitively that he deserves to be part of the elite consideration.

That being said, I put DGB ahead of him as well, even tho I saw a whole ZERO of him this season... So, there's that.

It's a tough year, because I can take reasons why any of those 4 guys can be ranked in any order.

 
Good topic. Kevin White isn't quite the physical presence that Evans is but he could be very good.
6'5" 230... aint noone touching him in this year's class.

These guys are all below Evans and OBJ... and on par w Watkins in terms of how Id want them.

Evans

OBJ

Watkins

White

Cooper

eta: DGB depending on landing spot, will make a serious run as best WR of the class. but he needs a rock for a coach.
Devin Funchess.

 
What scares me about White is his route running. I've seen most rookie WRs struggle at the next level if they struggle running good routes. Yes, he's big and strong and can go up for the ball, but I believe you need a lot more than that to be elite in the NFL. Scouts are saying White's ceiling is higher than Cooper's, but think for a second about the hype of C Patterson this time last year and the word on him then was that he was raw as a route runner. As it turns out he wasn't only raw, but didn't have a clue. I'm not saying White will be like Patterson, but inefficient route runners scare the hell out of me.

 
What scares me about White is his route running. I've seen most rookie WRs struggle at the next level if they struggle running good routes. Yes, he's big and strong and can go up for the ball, but I believe you need a lot more than that to be elite in the NFL. Scouts are saying White's ceiling is higher than Cooper's, but think for a second about the hype of C Patterson this time last year and the word on him then was that he was raw as a route runner. As it turns out he wasn't only raw, but didn't have a clue. I'm not saying White will be like Patterson, but inefficient route runners scare the hell out of me.
There was also quite a few scouts that said Patterson was about as bright as a box of hammers. You can teach a guy to run routes, as long as the guy can learn.

 
What scares me about White is his route running. I've seen most rookie WRs struggle at the next level if they struggle running good routes. Yes, he's big and strong and can go up for the ball, but I believe you need a lot more than that to be elite in the NFL. Scouts are saying White's ceiling is higher than Cooper's, but think for a second about the hype of C Patterson this time last year and the word on him then was that he was raw as a route runner. As it turns out he wasn't only raw, but didn't have a clue. I'm not saying White will be like Patterson, but inefficient route runners scare the hell out of me.
I find myself paying more attention to route running than anything else now. Like you said, the NFL is full of "gifted physical receivers" but if they can't run routes or have bad hands, they aren't going to become a valuable asset on your FF team IMO.

 
Perhaps I need to go back and rewatch the film, but I dont recall any major issues with his route running.

Think I mentioned in this thread or another in the SP that White isn't a Brandin Cooks in terms of route running by any means, but I dont recall ever being like "ugh, that was an ugly route" moreso than I have with other high prospects.

Worth a look, I guess.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
There have been much worse route runners in past years (Patterson) and this year than White. For example Jaelen Strong's route's are horrendous from what I've seen, but White is relatively crisp. Could he improve? absolutely, but he isn't a slouch in that department either. I like White's route tree more than Parker's. Parker seems to have 2 routes, that is slants and post routes while the DB plays him horribly, so I'd rather have White.

To keep this Cooper vs White, I think they are relatively close and if I'm being honest I find it hard to evaluate Cooper because of how smooth he is (I've always struggled with these types of receivers). White isn't smooth, but he's almost everything I look for in receivers even if he does measure less than 6'3". I won't knock him down if he measures shorter, but I will if he ends up being under 6'.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Perhaps I need to go back and rewatch the film, but I dont recall any major issues with his route running.

Think I mentioned in this thread or another in the SP that White isn't a Brandin Cooks in terms of route running by any means, but I dont recall ever being like "ugh, that was an ugly route" moreso than I have with other high prospects.

Worth a look, I guess.
http://gfycat.com/DecimalMessyBoar

 
Soulfly3 said:
Perhaps I need to go back and rewatch the film, but I dont recall any major issues with his route running.

Think I mentioned in this thread or another in the SP that White isn't a Brandin Cooks in terms of route running by any means, but I dont recall ever being like "ugh, that was an ugly route" moreso than I have with other high prospects.

Worth a look, I guess.
http://gfycat.com/DecimalMessyBoar
Haha. I never implied he didnt run wrong routes. Im pretty comfortable in saying most rookies/college players do.

I just dont think his routes are as bad as being discussed. Guaranteed you could pull out handfuls of those for parker, cooper and every elite WR going.

Like I said... Ill look into it more, but im comfy that I wont be shocked /outraged as Ive watched plenty of him

 
both looking good in the combine so far (very early)

cooper killed the gauntlet, white destroyed the bench press (23)

 
If you think White has looked good at the combine so far when the only thing he has done is bench, your doing it wrong.

 
If you think White has looked good at the combine so far when the only thing he has done is bench, your doing it wrong.
? just said "very early" - white has done ONE event, and he killed it. SO yes, he's look very good in the one thing he's done.

if it didnt matter at all, the bench press wouldnt be part of the combine.

**removed, read the chart wrong***

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Opportunity-where they wind up- is paramount to everything here.

I would say the safe bet is going with the guy that people rave about his route running and polish.

One of the most disconcerting things about a WR prospect is when they don't run nice routes which yields this thought about their inability to improve or not recognizing the finer points of the game or how long have you been playing this position and....

This is not to say White runs poor routes, but I'll discredit every prospect that gets that claim. Just that I love that Cooper is supposedly such a "finished product" entering the league.

 
4.35 for White. Looks like a boss.
That number and his size, I think he's probably a dead ringer for Andre Johnson coming out of college. I may be mis-remembering, but I feel like those were AJ's combine numbers: 6'3, 215, 4.35.
Vintage Combine report on 'Dre Johnson by Len Pasquarelli from '03.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/columnist?id=1519382

If the name of the position was wide athlete and not wide receiver, University of Miami star Andre Johnson certainly would have solidified his status as a premier draft choice on Thursday, as Hurricanes players staged their on-campus workout for NFL scouts.

The chances are still excellent that Johnson will be among the initial 10 prospects selected on April 26 but, during the workout, his receiving skills were clearly secondary to his overall athletic prowess.

"I wouldn't label him a 'body catcher,' because he does grab the ball out in front of him, but he doesn't look really that natural (as a receiver)," said one personnel director. "He doesn't have those real, soft hands, you know?" One college scouting director termed Johnson's showing in the receiving drills on Thursday "a little average."

There was nothing ordinary, however, about Johnson's performance in the athletic drills. While he dropped the first pass thrown to him in the position-specific work, there were no bobbles in the drills that preceded it.

Johnson was timed at between 4.42-4.48, according to three scouts, in his first 40-yard dash. On the second, he ran between 4.37-4.40, scouts said. He also recorded a 41-inch vertical jump, a long jump of 10-feet, 9-inches, and a time of about 4.10 seconds in the short shuttle drill.

Notable was that Johnson, universally assessed as one of the top two wide receivers in this year's draft pool, was measured at 6-feet-1 7/8 and at 224 pounds. That is one-eighth of an inch shorter, and six pounds lighter, than he was at the recent NFL combine workouts.

The other highly-regarded wide receiver this year, Michigan State standout Charles Rogers, is scheduled to work out for scouts on March 18.

The explosive Johnson had 52 receptions for 1,092 yards and nine scores in 2002. Over the last two seasons, he averaged 19.9 yards per catch and also scored 19 touchdowns.

Don't think the case with White, but Johnson also had a track background at Miami.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Johnson

"In 2002, he won the Big East 60-meter dash with a time of 6.81 seconds at the Big East Indoor Championship and followed that up by winning the 100-meter dash with a career-best time of 10.59 seconds at the Big East Outdoor Championships. He won the 200-meter dash at the 2003 GMAC Championships with a career-best time of 21.48 seconds. Also a top competitor in the 400 meters, he ran a career-best time of 46.47 seconds in the finals of the 2003 FHSAA Class 3A Championships."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cooper solidified himself as the #1 WR off the board. White is right behind him.
White just ran 4.35 and at his size that's insane. I don't see how Cooper has solidified anything when White, and many others, haven't done positional drills yet.

 
4.35 for White. Looks like a boss.
That number and his size, I think he's probably a dead ringer for Andre Johnson coming out of college. I may be mis-remembering, but I feel like those were AJ's combine numbers: 6'3, 215, 4.35.
Vintage Combine report on 'Dre Johnson by Len Pasquarelli from '03.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/columnist?id=1519382

If the name of the position was wide athlete and not wide receiver, University of Miami star Andre Johnson certainly would have solidified his status as a premier draft choice on Thursday, as Hurricanes players staged their on-campus workout for NFL scouts.

The chances are still excellent that Johnson will be among the initial 10 prospects selected on April 26 but, during the workout, his receiving skills were clearly secondary to his overall athletic prowess.

"I wouldn't label him a 'body catcher,' because he does grab the ball out in front of him, but he doesn't look really that natural (as a receiver)," said one personnel director. "He doesn't have those real, soft hands, you know?" One college scouting director termed Johnson's showing in the receiving drills on Thursday "a little average."

There was nothing ordinary, however, about Johnson's performance in the athletic drills. While he dropped the first pass thrown to him in the position-specific work, there were no bobbles in the drills that preceded it.

Johnson was timed at between 4.42-4.48, according to three scouts, in his first 40-yard dash. On the second, he ran between 4.37-4.40, scouts said. He also recorded a 41-inch vertical jump, a long jump of 10-feet, 9-inches, and a time of about 4.10 seconds in the short shuttle drill.

Notable was that Johnson, universally assessed as one of the top two wide receivers in this year's draft pool, was measured at 6-feet-1 7/8 and at 224 pounds. That is one-eighth of an inch shorter, and six pounds lighter, than he was at the recent NFL combine workouts.

The other highly-regarded wide receiver this year, Michigan State standout Charles Rogers, is scheduled to work out for scouts on March 18.

The explosive Johnson had 52 receptions for 1,092 yards and nine scores in 2002. Over the last two seasons, he averaged 19.9 yards per catch and also scored 19 touchdowns.
Funny to see Charles Rogers in there. Man, what fun it would have been from 2007-2013 to watch Andre and Calvin Johnson on the Lions if the Lions realized Rogers wasn't the right guy. The Johnson brothers. Not a Lions fan in the least, but man, that would have been a fun what would have been.

 
Starting to look like Cooper vs White might be like AJG vs Julio . Not saying they are at either WRs level, but you really can't go wrong with either player. Both seem to be as safe as you can hope for an incoming WR.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top