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as bad as it gets?
I know you're just being a homer, but in case anyone takes that argument seriously, at some point you have to rely on teams to abide by the obvious intent of the rules. You don't need a rule to tell teams that they can't inflate their balls with helium and the other teams balls with freon.
Anything? Lets just let them interpret their own versions of the rules and leave grey areas everywhere. Good idea. I can't see where there would ever be a problem with that.
Do you even need to ask? There is no way 90% of the people here would let the Pats off the hook even if it was proved the Colts sabotaged the balls. let it go.
Shouldn't be too hard to follow the last few pages when multiple Pats fans all agreed they should be punished if it was proven they removed air from the ball after pre-game inspection.
It is conceivable (although I don't think it will happen) that the league can show this has been going on for more than this game and potentially a long time. We have no idea as to what they will say until they say it and present it.
First, I haven't already determined the Pats cheated. But here is a list of things that would certainly make me side with the Patriots:
who discounts spygate? It is so easy, and people have said it in here plenty of times. The league needs to come out with numbers. What exact psi did the colts balls start at vs the pats, and what was the psis of all the balls at halftime on both sides? Is there a big difference in them?
If the ref comes out and says he just did a spot checked the balls and they explain how the Colts didn't change PSI.
Here's the thing assume NE gives the refs the balls below the allowed PSI. The refs don't check them with a gauge but just squeezed them and say fine. They play the game. NE wins. Is that something you think should be vacated? IMO that situation is about as bad as holding and not getting called. But if you still think it should be vacated I think we'd have to make Dallas the champion since they lost to GB who overinflated.
I'm sure most would agree they should be exonerated if it was proven they didn't purposely manipulate their footballs prior to or during the game.
I think at some point, you (not "YOU," but anyone) has to use common sense. Whether they measured the Pats balls first or last, we're talking about a matter of minutes, not hours. It would make no sense for the refs to test the NE balls 2 hours before the game, then 5 minutes before kick-off go "why don't we check Indy's footballs now." Common sense says they test them all at once, and in the same location (refs locker/changing room).
Nobody but NE haters are going to discount a SB win as illegitimate.
What if the NFL concluded that weather could have impacted the PSI being reported and there was no evidence that the Pats doctored the balls before or after inspection? Would that in and of itself satisfy you?
Personally I wish there would be more attention and scrutiny on their ineligible/eligible player reporting and the speed at which they are working on offense in an attempt to obfuscate who can receive the ball. Or if they are going to do that crap then I hope Carroll has a similar plan.
That's not what he asked. Try to keep up.
I agree on common sense, but I'm not sure the NFL has common sense based on recent history.
See my common sense is different.
So you're saying the ball measurements were correct for both teams and then only the Patriots balls were deflated due to weather? Again, the Patriots should be accountable for playing with regulation balls. The "hot room, hot air" theory is still designed to circumvent the measurement reading. That isn't playing within the rules, it's beating the system. As an example, what if you learned after the SB (and let's simply pretend the Seahawks win for this argument) that the Seahawks all took a new PED that couldn't be tested for; is that a tained win or ok because it wasn't caught?
Sure.
Doesn't 'beating the system' count as 'playing within the rules?"
After the ineligible player was called the Ravens had 7, 10 and 7 seconds. Plus the ref said he's ineligible don't cover him. What did Baltimore need? He's ineligible don't cover him shouldn't take more than 7 seconds to process.
Of course they don't agree on this haha. Don't you see it doesn't work both ways? If no info shows air was removed, it will be "I'm sure the NFL messed up, they did it."... and... "But, But, Cheaters!"
What if there's film of Tom Brady inflating the balls with a bike pump and there's a dead ballboy nearby?
Once caught cheating, I tend to give less benefit of the doubt. This is not a court of law. The Commissioner will decide.
Just saying you said you were sure most would agree they should be exonerated if those details came out. Most people in here would still assume and say they cheated this year and wont exonerate them.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement. You mean to intentionally deceive and fill the balls in a way that will make them outside the bounds of the rules during the game should be considered legal?
If you want to get real technical about it and you want to draw a line in the sand, if they intentionally broke the rules - they cheated. They cheated because there was a rule against it. Whereas Lester Hayes pouring stickum all over his body was not cheating because there was no rule at the time he did it. Lester was simply gaining a competitive edge.
Yes. Similar to a boxer deceiving the scale at weigh in, knowing he will be outside the bounds of the allowable weight during the fight.
Please tell me how my scenario was ruled out? The NFL said the opposite. They said the balls were under inflated in the first half and inflated the 2nd. That's all they've said so far. My scenario might not turn out to be the truth. Yours might. Then again mine might too.
How are the Pats supposed to know what psi the balls are going to end up at? All they did was fill them in a warm room. They didn't use helium or put blow torches on them. I think it's going to be a hard sell if that is all the NFL has for evidence. This will all be blamed on unforeseen, uncontrollable effects from the weather and the NFL will put in protocols going forward to prevent it from happening again. The Pats skate IF this is the scenario we are looking at and there is nothing more.
but that's not at all the same. The boxing rules are constructed as such to specifically allow a boxer to regain weight. If they wanted to force the fighters to weight the exact weight when they step in the ring, the weigh-in would be immediately before the bell rings. The fact that weigh-ins are a day prior is specifically allow fighters to recover after their weight cut. There is no deception involved here.
All of the balls were tested with a gauge before the game.
It hasn't been ruled out in the slightest. Take a look at the carefully worded NFL statements and you'll find that they never say that the football pressures were tested prior to the game, only that the balls were "inspected". Why do you think they worded it that way? Do you think in a league office filled with lawyers, they aren't incredibly precise and particular with their language in this situation?
I was under the assumption there was no "reinflating of the balls" at halftime, and that they used the 12 backup balls.
So you take unofficial reports as truth. And you insult me because I don't.
You know, you're going out on a limb with your continued assertion that the balls were measured with a gauge pregame. It's possible they were, though it's the core of the NFL's case and after 6 days they haven't clarified this, and their statement goes out of their way to use the word "inspected" rather than "measured" when it comes to pregame. You and moleculo are going to get crucified in here if it turns out gauges weren't used pregame.Some people have their minds made up before the evidence comes out, while others wait to actually see the evidence before passing judgment.
It's a billion dollar industry. This investigation is like couch change. Sports talk and super nerd fans like all of us fund the whole thing. Personally, I'd like to think they could find out if a team is cheating or not.
