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Greg Cosell: Please post his podcasts & articles on the 2015 draft (1 Viewer)

JohnnyU

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Tired of all the Rotoworld blurbs with mostly meaningless blabber. Give me the real stuff, give me Greg Cosell. I love this guy's take on players.

 
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He's the man. Podcasts with Doug Farrar and with John Hansen are both evergreen. I'll be listening to those old matchup shows all off season.

edit: On the Couch is already rolling pretty good, though.

 
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i heard him on a podcast earlier this week. he said he's watched the preliminary film on the top 5 players at most of the positions. he said it serves as his baseline for the combine. from there, he will identify players that stand out in their combine performances.

 
I love Cosell's take too.

But he has a tendency to be condescending, at least on the Fantasyguru podcast.

 
identikit said:
I love Cosell's take too.

But he has a tendency to be condescending, at least on the Fantasyguru podcast.
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I think he feels there's a difference between what Hansen wants for ff and what Cosell has to say about nfl. But yeah, he can tend to brush John off a little brusquely sometimes.

 
Not draft talk right now but Cosell just did his first Film Room video where he talks about the free agent WRs this year.

Don't know if you're familiar with Cosell's film room breakdowns but they are excellent and soon he will begin doing his draft film room sessions so be sure to book mark this link.

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Film-Room-Free-Agent-Wideouts/9a0a7330-ff8e-4686-af57-5932d9021503

Posted:

7 hours ago Film Room: Free Agent WideoutsWe kick off our Film Room series, highlighting the key names to know at every position in the coming weeks, with the wide receiver position, where a number of stars could hit the open market ...
 
Slider said:
He's probably waiting for the draft sites to fire up so he can do less work.
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I believe Cosell watches more tape than anybody and don't get the feeling he's copping other people's evaluations. The only problem I have with his evaluations is that they are retrospective rather than prospective. He's great at studying what guys have done in college, but not so great at predicting how they will develop in the NFL.

 
cstu said:
Slider said:
He's probably waiting for the draft sites to fire up so he can do less work.
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I believe Cosell watches more tape than anybody and don't get the feeling he's copping other people's evaluations. The only problem I have with his evaluations is that they are retrospective rather than prospective. He's great at studying what guys have done in college, but not so great at predicting how they will develop in the NFL.
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That's not what he does. He's not a draftnik.

 
cstu said:
Slider said:
He's probably waiting for the draft sites to fire up so he can do less work.
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I believe Cosell watches more tape than anybody and don't get the feeling he's copping other people's evaluations. The only problem I have with his evaluations is that they are retrospective rather than prospective. He's great at studying what guys have done in college, but not so great at predicting how they will develop in the NFL.
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He does seem to have an ideal in mind at all times, and he measures every prospect against that ideal.

I haven't been at this that long -- would you say Cosell misses more than the mean?

 
Old Smiley said:
cstu said:
Slider said:
He's probably waiting for the draft sites to fire up so he can do less work.
Click to expand...
I believe Cosell watches more tape than anybody and don't get the feeling he's copping other people's evaluations. The only problem I have with his evaluations is that they are retrospective rather than prospective. He's great at studying what guys have done in college, but not so great at predicting how they will develop in the NFL.
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He does seem to have an ideal in mind at all times, and he measures every prospect against that ideal.

I haven't been at this that long -- would you say Cosell misses more than the mean?
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Cosell isn't like Kiper or McShay. He doesn't do mocks or rankings. He watches film, and shares his opinions. He was hired at NFL Flims in 1979, and frankly, has more credibility than any other draft dweeb you can think of.

The best part about Cosell, IMO, is that because he's not part of the draft community, his motivations are never in question. Draft guys now need to drive traffic. Mocks need to be clicked on, liked on Pinterest, shared on Facebook, and Tweeted about. It's how they make their money, Bleacher Report slideshows and all that. Hot Takes!!

Cosell isn't making money from ad sales on some hack draft site. He's not a Drew Rosenhaus shill like Kiper is accused of being. So you know you're getting the straight dope. He can come off a little curmudgeon-like, but I would say he's no nonsense.

I would say he's a bit more technical than all other draft guys. He doesn't prattle on about leadership and intangibles. He talks about whether or not the kid can play NFL football.

 
He took some lumps for saying he hadn't seen Luck make some of "the throws". But, to my mind you have to respect that. If you didn't see them you didn't see them. Two games into ALs rookie year he said, "There they are."

As to curmudgeon, sometimes I think he does so many spots that he'll let someone have it because of the many other times he's responded to a question. He came on pretty strong to Ross Tucker about the Ohio kid. I just had the feeling it was, like, the tenth time he'd had to say, "We've only seen three games. We don't know anything."

 
Old Smiley said:
He took some lumps for saying he hadn't seen Luck make some of "the throws". But, to my mind you have to respect that. If you didn't see them you didn't see them. Two games into ALs rookie year he said, "There they are."

As to curmudgeon, sometimes I think he does so many spots that he'll let someone have it because of the many other times he's responded to a question. He came on pretty strong to Ross Tucker about the Ohio kid. I just had the feeling it was, like, the tenth time he'd had to say, "We've only seen three games. We don't know anything."
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I remember that interview. That was why I love Cosell. To him, it was absurd to discuss the kid after three games, and he was 100% right. He sees things very linear, very black and white, and to him, it was, "three games, not enough. Next topic. Why are we still talking about this guy? It's been three games."

 
Old Smiley said:
cstu said:
Slider said:
He's probably waiting for the draft sites to fire up so he can do less work.
Click to expand...
I believe Cosell watches more tape than anybody and don't get the feeling he's copping other people's evaluations. The only problem I have with his evaluations is that they are retrospective rather than prospective. He's great at studying what guys have done in college, but not so great at predicting how they will develop in the NFL.
Click to expand...
He does seem to have an ideal in mind at all times, and he measures every prospect against that ideal.

I haven't been at this that long -- would you say Cosell misses more than the mean?
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I can't comment on his long-term track record, but he missed on Bridgewater who didn't fit his ideal:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/2/5463312/greg-cosell-questions-manziel-bridgewater-favors-bortles

Tucker then asked if the only difference between Bridgewater and Bortles was size.

Well [bortles] is a bigger kid so physically he is a better talent, now again many people have different opinions on what is needed in the NFL. I think many people would say accuracy, ball placement, and decision making are key traits, and Bridgewater has that. But I guess it’s hard for me, and I guess others will have different points of view, if he’s ultimately going to be a guy who is maybe one ninety, one ninety five, I think that is small. Just because Russell Wilson won a
http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowlSuper Bowl
http://www.sbnation.com/super-bowl, I think we have to be careful with having size and height as unimportant. I don’t think we can say that, Ross. Seattle is a unique team because of how good they are in all areas.
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massraider said:
cstu said:
Slider said:
He's probably waiting for the draft sites to fire up so he can do less work.
Click to expand...
I believe Cosell watches more tape than anybody and don't get the feeling he's copping other people's evaluations. The only problem I have with his evaluations is that they are retrospective rather than prospective. He's great at studying what guys have done in college, but not so great at predicting how they will develop in the NFL.
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That's not what he does. He's not a draftnik.
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He's not a draftnik, but he does try to predict their future success. The way I see his evaluations is like this - if you lock a player's ability in stone at the end of their last college game, how will they do in the NFL?

 
cstu said:
Old Smiley said:
He does seem to have an ideal in mind at all times, and he measures every prospect against that ideal.

I haven't been at this that long -- would you say Cosell misses more than the mean?
Click to expand...
I can't comment on his long-term track record, but he missed on Bridgewater who didn't fit his ideal:
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He still has reservations about Bridgewater. He out-and-out makes size an attribute. He flat scores it. As last season went on, his estimation of TBs positives rose, I would say. The phrase Cosell kept going back to was, "He knows where his answers are." But he still doesn't like Teddy's arm, or his mechanics.

From Faust's link upthread:

I like Bridgewater, and he’s a very interesting case. He has a lot of positive traits, like his feel for the game, understanding where to go with the ball, he has good pocket presence and accuracy, but there’s one other issue: He has a below-average arm.

Picture this: Imagine a waiter carrying a tray with his wrist and palm at a 90-degree angle. That’s how Bridgewater throws it. The ball sits on his palm. You can’t generate torque and velocity throwing like that.

So Bridgewater has a lot of traits you really like, but I just wonder what his ceiling is because there are throws that he’s not going to be able to make. And I don’t think it’s a strength issue that’ll be helped by their weight program over the next couple years because I don’t think you can change the way he throws the ball, although I could be wrong.
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This is the thing I'm most interested to learn just as a general thing. What can a guy learn? What can be coached into a guy? In all these cases you've got to be careful of assuming that someone, just because they have 99th percentile skills or talents in one area, that they'll develop other talents/skills. We're talking about (I hate this term, but...) freakishly exceptional talents.

Like how people were saying Tebow could automatically be an exceptional tight end. I always thought that was weird to assume.

 
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I watched that video of every throw Bridgewater made last year and don't see any problem with how he throws the ball. Reminds of people who doubted Rivers and others due to the same he throws. Some guys can get it done even if the way they throw it is less than ideal.

 
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I hope you're right. I love that Teddy's smart. I like it when smart guys succeed. (Hell, I've still got a soft spot for Fitzpatrick)

I'd like to hear Greg talk about Rivers just in terms of his mechanics someday.

Edit: I do think there's a difference, though. With Rivers the mechanics are eccentric, but the ball looks good. Not so much with Teddy. There are limitations as to how he can drive it. I think the way Turner had to adjust the offense for TB speaks to that.

 
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FOr those who havent seen the video, Cosell mentioned that both White and PERRIMAN, may be better prospects than Cooper.

Wow.

 
Old Smiley said:
He's the man. Podcasts with Doug Farrar and with John Hansen are both evergreen. I'll be listening to those old matchup shows all off season.

edit: On the Couch is already rolling pretty good, though.
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Does Doug Farrar do any podcasts right now? I lost track of him a bit after he left the Shutdown Corner.

 
http://www.rosstucker.com/wp/podcasts/ross-tucker-football-podcast/

Looking at this years QBs, I think. (yup. Winston and Mariotta)

Borden said:
Old Smiley said:
He's the man. Podcasts with Doug Farrar and with John Hansen are both evergreen. I'll be listening to those old matchup shows all off season.


edit: On the Couch is already rolling pretty good, though.
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Does Doug Farrar do any podcasts right now? I lost track of him a bit after he left the Shutdown Corner.
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Yeah, they picked up again starting about week six. I just follow Doug on twitter and he announces when they're up. I don't have a link but they seem to come out through soundcloud...

 
Borden said:
Old Smiley said:
He's the man. Podcasts with Doug Farrar and with John Hansen are both evergreen. I'll be listening to those old matchup shows all off season.

edit: On the Couch is already rolling pretty good, though.
Click to expand...
Does Doug Farrar do any podcasts right now? I lost track of him a bit after he left the Shutdown Corner.
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He does, but haven't seen any in offseason yet. Watch his or Cosell's twitter for new ones. They are not posted in iTunes.

 
Black said:
Borden said:
Old Smiley said:
He's the man. Podcasts with Doug Farrar and with John Hansen are both evergreen. I'll be listening to those old matchup shows all off season.

edit: On the Couch is already rolling pretty good, though.
Click to expand...
Does Doug Farrar do any podcasts right now? I lost track of him a bit after he left the Shutdown Corner.
Click to expand...
He does, but haven't seen any in offseason yet. Watch his or Cosell's twitter for new ones. They are not posted in iTunes.
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Just tweeted and asked him. He can be good at responding. We'll see...

Edit: Doug Farrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar 36m36 minutes ago We are indeed planning to do so! Stay tuned. :)

 
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cstu said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Good conversation here on Ross Tuckers Podcast about the 2 QB's
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Cosell "You can't long-term run those other offenses in the NFL. You can't run an offense in the NFL where a major foundation is a QB running the ball"

Tucker "How about Wilson in Seattle?"

Cosell "......, Seattle is an outlier..."
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That's kind of a cheap shot cstu. I don't know why some have a witch hunt going on with Cosell.

Cosell continues that thought by saying that 'Russell Wilson primarily does his damage from the pocket.' He said that was the key with someone like Wilson that makes him stand out from other mobile QBs.

Also when I see Russell Wilson I notice a couple of things. The Seattle offense isn't a traditional offense, its not a spread or a pistol or an option but they mix in elements of that. Its primarily a run based offense and the numbers bear that out where they rank in the low-middle of the pack in terms of passing numbers but up near the top running the ball.

I think the main thing that separates Wilson from every other NFL QB today is how he sets up pass rushers who come at him cleanly when his feet are set. He waits till the last minute and is able to shift and throw them off balance then slides-up in the pocket. Or if he's rolling outside of the pocket he's even better setting up the pass rusher where he jukes them and then he's got a clean throwing lane and many times he's got a wide open running lane to exploit. He gets a TON of his rushing yardage from scrambles outside of the pocket where its not a designed run-option.

I think those are some of the things Cosell hints at by saying he's an outliner because Russell Wilson is an outliner from other mobile QBs who get the bulk of their rushing yards from designed run-option plays.

 
That's kind of a cheap shot cstu. I don't know why some have a witch hunt going on with Cosell.
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I love Cosell, but I disagree with his projections to the NFL. He's great at analyzing college performances, which he does better than anyone. However, when he's projecting NFL success he only relies on what he's seen a player do - not how he could develop - and has a strong preference for big, strong pocket passers.

 
cstu said:
That's kind of a cheap shot cstu. I don't know why some have a witch hunt going on with Cosell.
Click to expand...
I love Cosell, but I disagree with his projections to the NFL. He's great at analyzing college performances, which he does better than anyone. However, when he's projecting NFL success he only relies on what he's seen a player do - not how he could develop - and has a strong preference for big, strong pocket passers.
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Last year he was one of the few pundits who simply was without question down on Johnny Manziel and he stuck by his guns all through the process so his preference for a traditional big strong armed QB didn't fail in that regard.

I like him because he's NOT like the rest, he is his own voice and he doesn't seem fazed by the opinions of others. He has his own take. I like independent and unique voices like his. Matt Waldman has his own unique voice as well.

My big thing with the draft is simple.

I'm not so much taken by the guys who get their mocks right. What I care about are the rookies who turn into, solid, really good, or great NFL players by the time their careers are complete. That is really what I care about. So I like Greg Cosell's insights and how he looks at players. I file away unique takes even if they are not all correct. Over time what some people say holds merit for what I am most interested in with the NFL draft and that is of all of these players how many will turn into, solid, really good, or great NFL players over time?

No way of knowing but finding unique independent insights is one way of trying to figure that out and that is why I like Greg Cosell's takes.

Just my :2cents: on my I like unique takes that we can count on with guys like Cosell.

 
cstu said:
That's kind of a cheap shot cstu. I don't know why some have a witch hunt going on with Cosell.
Click to expand...
I love Cosell, but I disagree with his projections to the NFL. He's great at analyzing college performances, which he does better than anyone. However, when he's projecting NFL success he only relies on what he's seen a player do - not how he could develop - and has a strong preference for big, strong pocket passers.
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I agree with all you say. I can totally hear Cosell's voice: "I'm not saying what's going to happen; I'm just telling you what I see on tape."

And, yes I bet if you added 3 inches to any small qb Cosell has doubted he would raise his score. Size usually the first trait he mentions about any prospect. Plus, I bet YOU would agree with that. Imagine Bridgewater at 6'4" with a hose. What couldn't he be?

But for sure Cosell will dock you a few points if you're small and don't throw rockets.

Seattle is a special case because Lynch and their D. We've seen Wilson's offense stall. Yes they do cool stuff, and Wilson is really something, but there are a lot of three and outs. They need that D. Wilson throws maybe the best deep ball under stress as anyone, but that is still a low percentage throw.

I do think you can hear some puzzlement when Cosell talks about Seattle. They get a lot of prayers answered. Can you count on that? Yet it's working, I guess.

 
massraider said:
cstu said:
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Good conversation here on Ross Tuckers Podcast about the 2 QB's
Click to expand...
Cosell "You can't long-term run those other offenses in the NFL. You can't run an offense in the NFL where a major foundation is a QB running the ball"

Tucker "How about Wilson in Seattle?"

Cosell "......, Seattle is an outlier..."
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Is Cosell wrong?
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I'd say no since Cam and Kaepernick run as much as Wilson and have taken their teams to the playoffs. Injuries are a concern for QB who run, which I agree with him about. However, even with the injury concerns I consider running ability a positive, not a negative.

That said, a QB must be able to throw the ball effectively - especially when they are dinged up and can't run the ball as well. I believe Cam, Kaepernick, and several others are capable of making that next step as a passer to be on Wilson's level.

 
None of those teams call a lot of QB runs, and certainly have not been doing it long term, successfully. Cosell is completely correct.

No one has proven they can run an offense where the QB gets a 'lot' of designed carries, People have tried it, and gotten their QBs nearly killed.

 
massraider said:
None of those teams call a lot of QB runs, and certainly have not been doing it long term, successfully. Cosell is completely correct.

No one has proven they can run an offense where the QB gets a 'lot' of designed carries, People have tried it, and gotten their QBs nearly killed.
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Then what's he talking about if no one in the NFL calls a lot of designed runs? It's like he's arguing a problem that isn't there. Even Cam who you think runs a lot throws the ball 4x more than he runs.

 
Rotoworld:

Based purely on tape study, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Georgia RB Todd Gurley is "the best back in the draft."

We agree wholeheartedly. "I like Gurley more (than Melvin Gordon)," Cosell said. "Gurley, to me, has elements of Steven Jackson in his prime and Marshawn Lynch. He's that kind of runner. He's got an excellent combination of size, power, short-area quickness and burst, and top-end acceleration. I like Gurley a lot. And he looks like an NFL foundation back. I think he can be the starting point of an NFL offense." If Gurley's ACL looks recovered at next month's Combine medical recheck, he should have a chance to be a first-round pick.

Source: Midday 180 Nashville
Mar 4 - 9:29 PM
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After watching their college tape, NFL Films' Greg Cosell came away believing Alabama's T.J. Yeldon "may" be a better fit as a "true foundation back" in the NFL than Wisconsin's Melvin Gordon.

Gordon is a bit of a boom-or-bust runner, while Yeldon is a consistent chain mover with NFL-ready three-down tools. "The guy I really like (is) T.J. Yeldon out of Alabama," said Cosell. "I think his running style and his mentality is well suited to the NFL. He has a very intuitive feel to attack downhill with conviction, and he has great ability to work effectively between the tackles. He's very compact in his movement and he gets through small cracks. That is so critical in the NFL for backs, to be able to get through small cracks at the point of attack." A projected day-two pick, Yeldon has the skill set to play early in the NFL.

Source: Midday 180 Nashville
Mar 4 - 9:35 PM
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