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Should this be manslaughter? (1 Viewer)

(Read OP) Should the defendant's actions in this case be considered manslaughter?

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 38.3%
  • No

    Votes: 66 61.7%

  • Total voters
    107

Gary Coal Man

Footballguy
The defendant played no physical part in the deceased's death. The defendant is charged with manslaughter, however, because it's alleged that the deceased would not have committed suicide but for the defendant's texts.

Girl, 18, hit with manslaughter charge over friend's suicide

March 01, 2015

Massachusetts prosecutors say a troubled teen took his own life after exchanging texts with a fellow student who egged him on to do it.

Prosecutors from the Bristol County District Attorney’s Office said Michelle Carter, 18, encouraged 18-year-old Conrad Roy to kill himself last July. They charged her with involuntary manslaughter Friday, a charge punishable by up to 20 years in prison, MyFoxBoston reported.

Roy drove his truck to K-Mart in Fairhaven, near New Bedford, with a gas generator and took his own life. The cause was carbon monoxide poisoning.

The station cited court papers as alleging that at the K-Mart, Roy got out of his truck and texted Carter. He told her he wasn’t sure he should go through with it.

“Get back in,” she texted back, according to the court papers.

The station said that after Roy’s death, Carter posted messages on social media saying that she missed him. In September she organized “Homers for Conrad,” a fundraiser to raise awareness about suicide.

“Instead of attempting to assist him or notify school officials, a counselor, a family member, anyone, Miss Carter is alleged to have strongly influenced his decision to take his own life, encouraged him to commit suicide on multiple occasions and guided him through the process, including the engage of activities that ultimately led to his death,” Gregg Miliote, a spokesman for the Bristol County DA, told the station.

Carter was released on $2,500 bond and ordered to stay off social media after a court appearance. Her next court date is April 17.

Her attorney Joseph Cataldo said it was unfortunate Roy killed himself “but it is outrageous for the Bristol County District Attorney’s Office to now criminalize this situation.”

Roy, of Mattapoisett, graduated high school a month before his suicide. Carter, of Plainville, graduates high school in June.

Roy’s grandmother is heartbroken.

“If she really loved him as she said she did why didn’t she try and prevent him not to,” Janice Roy told MyFoxBoston.
 
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Wow, that's pretty tough to pin a manslaughter charge on a 3 word text.

She's an awful person though, if her intent was what it sounds like from her text.

 
Horrible what she texted, but she shouldn't spend a minute in jail. Can't believe a Judge signed that warrant.

 
Wow, that's pretty tough to pin a manslaughter charge on a 3 word text.

She's an awful person though, if her intent was what it sounds like from her text.
Reading between the lines of this article and from what I've gathered from other articles on the case, there were more texts encouraging the deceased to commit suicide than just the one listed in the article.

“Instead of attempting to assist him or notify school officials, a counselor, a family member, anyone, Miss Carter is alleged to have strongly influenced his decision to take his own life, encouraged him to commit suicide on multiple occasions and guided him through the process, including the engage of activities that ultimately led to his death,” Gregg Miliote, a spokesman for the Bristol County DA, told the station.

 
Wow, that's pretty tough to pin a manslaughter charge on a 3 word text.

She's an awful person though, if her intent was what it sounds like from her text.
Sounds like it was more than just that one text.

Instead of attempting to assist him or notify school officials, a counselor, a family member, anyone, Miss Carter is alleged to have strongly influenced his decision to take his own life, encouraged him to commit suicide on multiple occasions and guided him through the process, including the engage of activities that ultimately led to his death, Gregg Miliote, a spokesman for the Bristol County DA, told the station.
 
What's the line between manslaughter and, say, someone on the Internet saying "kill yourself"? People say bad things all the time.

Do we want to "reward" suicide? kids are fragile. Do you want your depressed kid to find out that if they kill themselves then their big bully will go to jail?

And what about a kid who claims that someone told them to take a bunch of pills and die, but the kid survives. Is that manslaughter or a cry for help or an attempt to frame someone?

You can't make this manslaughter. You just can't.

 
What's the line between manslaughter and, say, someone on the Internet saying "kill yourself"? People say bad things all the time.

Do we want to "reward" suicide? kids are fragile. Do you want your depressed kid to find out that if they kill themselves then their big bully will go to jail?

And what about a kid who claims that someone told them to take a bunch of pills and die, but the kid survives. Is that manslaughter or a cry for help or an attempt to frame someone?

You can't make this manslaughter. You just can't.
This kid was in the act of committing suicide (in the act is different than saying something at a random time) and she told him to go get back in the car. IMO, that crosses the line from bullying to intent.

Also, it was her that encouraged him to get to that point.

 
Based on a three word text, no, but there appears to be a lot more evidence against her than that.

 
Ok, what's the line? Do you have to have gotten in the car? Or just threaten to get in the car? Dies she have to see you in the car or just text you about it? What if she's not taking you seriously? What if its a gun or pills or an ill advised shot of whiskey? What if she's your commanding officer sending you on a suicide mission to save the lives of many, many others? where is the bright line between manslaughter and not a crime?

 
Huge slippery slope that I don't think we should go down. What is to say someone commits suicide and in the suicide note says it was because someone said something five years ago. Does that person get manslaughter?

This girl may not have believed this kid was at K-Mart or wherever. It's not like she was tracking him or with him at that moment. She was texting him. Could have been miles away (I know she wasn't but in theory).

Sad story but no charges are warranted.

 
What if Conrad had shared with the girl that he molests little boys and girls. Perhaps he told her he feels awful about it but knows he can't stop himself. He tells her he doesn't want to go to jail but wants to kill himself instead before he does it again. Does everyone who voted yes to manslaughter still feel the same?

 
I would say no, but wouldn't be upset if she spent some time in prison for a lesser crime.

 
Only the deceased made the choice and the action to end his life.

It's horrific what the girl did, but it's not a crime.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...

Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...

 
What's the line between manslaughter and, say, someone on the Internet saying "kill yourself"? People say bad things all the time.

Do we want to "reward" suicide? kids are fragile. Do you want your depressed kid to find out that if they kill themselves then their big bully will go to jail?

And what about a kid who claims that someone told them to take a bunch of pills and die, but the kid survives. Is that manslaughter or a cry for help or an attempt to frame someone?

You can't make this manslaughter. You just can't.
Sure you can. There are any number of scenarios that woykd fit the definition of manslaughter. And there are any number that wouldn't. We don't know 2% of the facts, let alone enough to proclaim this a crime or not. On it's face, there sure looks like probable cause based on the very limited information we have. Undoubtedly the DA has far more information than we have. Undoubtedly ore information will be learned as the case is prosecuted. Like I said, no way to predict what a jury will do with all the facts, but no way any self-respecting DA wouldn't charge someone who apparently walked someone through the suicide process.

ETA: I think some may not know what "involuntary manslaughter" is:

One can commit involuntary manslaughter through:

(1) an unintentional killing occasioned by an act which constitutes such a disregard of the probable harmful consequences to another as to be wanton or reckless; or

(2) an unintentional killing resulting from a battery.

 
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What's the line between manslaughter and, say, someone on the Internet saying "kill yourself"? People say bad things all the time.

Do we want to "reward" suicide? kids are fragile. Do you want your depressed kid to find out that if they kill themselves then their big bully will go to jail?

And what about a kid who claims that someone told them to take a bunch of pills and die, but the kid survives. Is that manslaughter or a cry for help or an attempt to frame someone?

You can't make this manslaughter. You just can't.
Rape convictions stick with less.
Bull####. Rape is an action. And usually there's physical evidence of that action. And usually there's a victim testifying about that action.

 
I'm guessing the prosecution knows this is a weak case but went ahead with it to shame this piece of trash. Jail or no jail this #####'s is forever branded as a heartless c word. Her parents must be proud.

 
What's the line between manslaughter and, say, someone on the Internet saying "kill yourself"? People say bad things all the time.

Do we want to "reward" suicide? kids are fragile. Do you want your depressed kid to find out that if they kill themselves then their big bully will go to jail?

And what about a kid who claims that someone told them to take a bunch of pills and die, but the kid survives. Is that manslaughter or a cry for help or an attempt to frame someone?

You can't make this manslaughter. You just can't.
This kid was in the act of committing suicide (in the act is different than saying something at a random time) and she told him to go get back in the car. IMO, that crosses the line from bullying to intent.

Also, it was her that encouraged him to get to that point.
No chance that she didn't think he was actually in the process of doing it? Seems plausible that the guy has been saying he was going to do it for a while now and she thought he was BSing.

Not that it defends the rest of her actions that the article alludes to, but we don't have the whole story here.

 
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From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...

Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...

Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
By this reasoning Manson shouldn't be in jail and Hitler never killed six million Jews.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
This may be true to a point. But there can be more than one person responsible for an outcome. Also, it's not like she was dealing with someone who was thinking calmly and rationally. All indications are she knew it. At some point doesn't the encourager have some responsibility if that encouragement pushed the recipient from "I'm thinking about suicide" to actually doing it? I can envision a lot of scenarios in which that is the case and a lot in which it isn't.

At the end of the day someone is dead of unnatural causes and we have someone else who apparently encouraged and provided some level of guidance for that to happen.

If she knew he was apt to murder someone else and encouraged and coached him to do it, I don't think there would be any question she should be charged. This isn't fundamentally different. She took action that led to death of another person. Maybe she's guilty maybe she isn't, but she needs to stand tall before the man and be judged for actions.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
By this reasoning Manson shouldn't be in jail and Hitler never killed six million Jews.
You conveyed the last part of my post far better than I.

 
What's the line between manslaughter and, say, someone on the Internet saying "kill yourself"? People say bad things all the time.

Do we want to "reward" suicide? kids are fragile. Do you want your depressed kid to find out that if they kill themselves then their big bully will go to jail?

And what about a kid who claims that someone told them to take a bunch of pills and die, but the kid survives. Is that manslaughter or a cry for help or an attempt to frame someone?

You can't make this manslaughter. You just can't.
Rape convictions stick with less.
Bull####. Rape is an action. And usually there's physical evidence of that action. And usually there's a victim testifying about that action.
Until you get to the "in the middle of it I said no" claims.
There's still a victim. We don't even know if we have a victim here.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...

Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
By this reasoning Manson shouldn't be in jail and Hitler never killed six million Jews.
Wrong

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...

Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
By this reasoning Manson shouldn't be in jail and Hitler never killed six million Jews.
That's your reasoning, not mine. I don't see this is the same thing.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't really say if this is manslaughter or not. I think what the girl did was morally reprehensible, but I don't think it's a crime.

 
I'm guessing the prosecution knows this is a weak case but went ahead with it to shame this piece of trash.
Possibly, but from my experience the DA's office only charges cases they believe they can win or cases which they felt considerable outside pressure to charge (like the Trayvon Martin case.) I'm not sure how much the DA's office factors in intent to shame. Though this girl deserves all the shame coming to her.

 
#### this worthless #####... I read about this already, I have no issue with her going to jail.
Now imagine he gets back in his truck, decides to begin life anew and focus his time on curing cancer and bringing about a second Fappening, and gets hit and killed by the drunk driver you let go.

 
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
Could anyone "push" YOU to kill yourself?

I'm almost certain the answer is no.
you must know him well...

Asking a 30s/40s adult vs a 15/17 year old kid is apples and oranges...
Fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that when an individual acts, the action is his responsibility alone.

While not entirely analogous, it reminds of the old parental question: "If Jimmy told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
By this reasoning Manson shouldn't be in jail and Hitler never killed six million Jews.
You do realize in the history of the internet, a Hitler analogy has never won an arguement.

 
Koya said:
From what I understand, this is a lot more than a "three word text." Rather it was literally an ongoing campaign by this pathetic woman to push this kid into killing himself.

Not sure how you can have more depraved indifference to life as is shown in this case. Manslaughter, at the least.
If this is true, I am all ears. However, as posed above, this part

because it's alleged that the deceased would not have committed suicide but for the defendant's texts
doesn't pass the smell test with me. The individual committed suicide. That's a messed up individual IMO. There was way more to this than just the texts. I don't see how the prosecution gets what they want out of it.

 
PatsWillWin said:
fantasycurse42 said:
#### this worthless #####... I read about this already, I have no issue with her going to jail.
Now imagine he gets back in his truck, decides to begin life anew and focus his time on curing cancer and bringing about a second Fappening, and gets hit and killed by the drunk driver you let go.
My drunken wife, sleeping 2 year old, and myself we're going to make a citizens arrest on the Belt Parkway? Even had I called the police, they prob wouldn't have caught up with this car anyways.

 
PatsWillWin said:
fantasycurse42 said:
#### this worthless #####... I read about this already, I have no issue with her going to jail.
Now imagine he gets back in his truck, decides to begin life anew and focus his time on curing cancer and bringing about a second Fappening, and gets hit and killed by the drunk driver you let go.
My drunken wife, sleeping 2 year old, and myself we're going to make a citizens arrest on the Belt Parkway? Even had I called the police, they prob wouldn't have caught up with this car anyways.
Nope, probably not. :mellow:

 
Without more information, I voted no. In the information listed I find neither "but for" nor proximate causation. Of course more details could obviously change my mind.

 
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